*Article concerns adult subject matter; viewer discretion is advised*
After reading this article there is one thing that I'll remember more then the rest "Initially, the Internet increased pornography sales, by providing users with easy and anonymous access. U.S. revenue reached a record $2.84 billion in 2006.
But after years of fairly steady increases, sales and rentals of porn videos dipped from $4.28 billion in 2005 to $3.62 billion last year, according to estimates by AVN, an industry trade publication."
This leads to my biggest question: Is this a good thing?
My first thought was, of course "yes", less money spent on porn is more spent on education, technology, the environment and family. But "free porn" raises so many concerns I'm not convinced it's a good thing. Long term effects. Individuals involved. Morality. "ex-friends". Work/ social relationships.
[ August 07, 2007, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If the link is for 18+, it's probably not appropriate to link to it at all from Hatrack.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:This leads to my biggest question: Is this a good thing?
No. It's bad, obviously, if you're a pornographer; and it's bad if you're anti-porn -- because what it really means is that porn is more easily and readily available to everyone.
I guess it's a good thing for people who enjoy watching free porn.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:If the link is for 18+, it's probably not appropriate to link to it at all from Hatrack.
It's a news article about pornography. The 18+ thing was done, I assume, out of politeness. There's nothing really 18+ there.
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
I'm going to agree that the article isn't in and of itself 18+, and that the warning was out of consideration. Pornography and its effects have been discussed at Hatrack before (I'm pretty sure I began such a topic myself long ago), and it's possible to approach the topic with maturity and without being graphic. I'm going to let the topic go for now, but I'm going to have to keep a pretty close eye on it, and if that maturity slips out or graphic-ness slips in, I'm locking it. To those concerned, feel free to call that censorship if it helps you sleep at night.
I'm also going to edit the thread title to more accurately reflect the topic -- the current title reeks of spam (no offense intended to the canned meat product).
--PJ
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
It's also bad if you're an avid porn connoisseur. The production values are going to go right down the toilet.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I agree with this part of the article:
quote:Now lawmakers need to catch up with tech-savvy Internet users, and deal with the potential emotional and psychological damage lurking for "ex-girlfriends" around the world.
But I don't agree that this is bad, as long as everyone involved is consenting. It's free and open communication, albeit a kind offensive to some people. If a couple wants to post pictures/videos of themselves for others to see to get thrills, far be it from me to tell them they can't. It's a naughty blog. And just like other blogs, sometimes the site owners get profits from ads and they pass a percentage on to the posters. Again though, that is assuming everyone involved is consenting. There should definitely be strict rules regarding use of stolen content (and by that I mean any content wherein a subject has not given consent to posting online).
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
It does seem to me that, given that we're going to have porn, amateur porn not controlled by a vast industry is preferable to all parties.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Think of all the young women who are able to work their way through college with a $400 computer and webcam. It could be argued that a few years of nudity followed by a fantastic career and no debt is a pretty good trade off.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Think of all the young women who are able to work their way through college with a $400 computer and webcam.
How many young women do you believe have been able to do this?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I really have no idea, but if there's a multi-billion dollar a year market out there, it seems like a fairly smart girl could tap into a few thousand a year if she wants to. I knew a girl in college who had a job as a stripper and was completely open about it. She said she made a lot of money. I have no idea how many more women I knew who made money without telling anyone.
It seems safer than having the Army pay for your college right now.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Think of all the young women who are able to work their way through college with a $400 computer and webcam.
How many young women do you believe have been able to do this?
A surprisingly large number, actually.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Is there any point in arguing with someone who thinks making porn is okay?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
What do you mean, pooka? Who is arguing? What is the argument about?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Is there any point in arguing with someone who thinks making porn is okay?
As much point as arguing with someone who is willing to judge someone without knowing the person.
Making porn might not be ideal, but certainly an adult can choose to do so without being a horrible, worthless person.
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Is there any point in arguing with someone who thinks making porn is okay?
As much point as arguing with someone who is willing to judge someone without knowing the person.
Making porn might not be ideal, but certainly an adult can choose to do so without being a horrible, worthless person.
In my experience, too much can desensitize a person to the line between reality and fantasy.
I'm wondering whether the industry is a "cause of (insert social illness)", or a "reflection of (insert social illness).
Either way, putting judgemental shit on the porn addict's plate isn't an effective method of recovery. In my experience...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Porn sales are dropping because the internet makes it so you don't have to buy anything.
As a side effect, it is increasing porn consumption. Not having to buy something means you can search anonymously and discreetly ...
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
The article specifically notes "U.S. revenues"...
...I can't help but wonder if a slice of the decline might not come from jaded consumers seeking a less-regulated foreign product.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I couldn't care less if porn sales go up or down since it probably doesn't say a thing about how much porn is being downloaded and viewed.
I don't think legislators need to make this their business. I'm sick of our lawmakers legislating morality in a country that is supposed to be "free."
I also think, personally, that the vast majority of porn out there ranges from disgusting to degrading (usually to women). Pornography has been shown to adversely affect relationships and as a woman and a wife, I would be very uncomfortable if my husband were an avid pornography viewer.
Also, women who sell their bodies, even for viewing, can have it come back and bite them later on. (whether this is fair or not) This past year there was a Dr. Phil episode about a teacher who was fired because when she was younger she made a pornographic video and one of her students got a hold of it. I didn't think that was fair, but obviously, she didn't just pay her way through college and then go on to have a successful career, did she?
As for the women who get into making porn...I sometimes think Hollywood glamorizes the college girl trying to make it through or the young mother doing strip teases because it's good money. I would be very surprised if these girls actually had a healthy psychological profile.
But lawmakers still need to get out of this. It's my business if I want to make porn and my business if I want to watch porn. I don't want to do either and personally don't think anyone else should, either, but I'd much rather live in a free world than a perfect one so....
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I'm sick of our lawmakers legislating morality in a country that is supposed to be "free."
:insert bored comment about how all legislation is moral in some way:
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
The article concerns itself specifically with sites light YouPorn or PornoTube. These are sights were people post homemade pictures/videos of themselves and their SOs. If any money is being made, it is likely slim to nill. Nobody is paying their way through college on it. A select few exhibitionists put up their content and the vast majority view it at no charge. Who is getting degraded here (other than people that want to be degraded, and far be it from me to tell them they can't)? Couples that get involved, ideally, are consenting adults, they're relationships aren't breaking up. Whether or not it'll bite them later remains to be seen, but it's their choice. Heck, maybe in the future people won't be condemned outright for having different sexual appetites than the vocal majority.
I also know a couple of girls that make good money stripping, and are using that money to get an education. That's a different thing than internet porn, for sure, but to assume that they must have some psychological fault is naive in the extreme.
quote:Is there any point in arguing with someone who thinks making porn is okay?
This may not be indicative of the general consensus, but these obvious signs of the general close-mindedness of our moral superiors are just further evidence that while our country may be legally a free one, it is societally standardized and restricted. It is with this rhetoric that any politician referencing a moral/religious platform will only make warry those that hope for an open-minded, cooperative future.
[ August 08, 2007, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: vonk ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I don't think legislators need to make this their business. I'm sick of our lawmakers legislating morality in a country that is supposed to be "free."
It should be noted that the use of the general police power as relates to morals (without a requirement that the use be connected to safety or health) has been generally accepted in this country since its founding.
Certainly there are many arguments to be made regarding that laws designed to enforce morals, with no empirical connection to health or safety, are not the proper subject of government power. But that isn't the system we live in now, and the concepts of freedom embodied in that system are not defined so as to be incompatible with the use of the general police power for the advancement of morals.
In short, you are advocating for a drastic change in the fundamental underpinnings of our government, and such a drastic change ought to be presented as such.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Of course that's the way things are and have always been. What does the magnitude of the change have to do with my argument, which was based purely in idealism? Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Of course that's the way things are and have always been. What does the magnitude of the change have to do with my argument, which was based purely in idealism?
I answered this in the last line of my previous post: "such a drastic change ought to be presented as such."
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:I'm sick of our lawmakers legislating morality in a country that is supposed to be "free."
:insert bored comment about how all legislation is moral in some way:
:insert bored contradiction:
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
:can't == cannot:
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:insert tired rant about how Icarus is just arguing to argue:
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
:insert petulant complaint about how Scott only attacks me because he's jealous of my good looks:
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:it's more your intelligence he's jealous of:
Oh, wait...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
:or maybe Icarus is jealous of your publications:
--er, when did we switch sides? :?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Since you're not good looking, and I'm not really that successful...
)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
AUUUGH!
That's not the smiley I was trying to get!
I wasn't trying to get an auto-smiley at all!
I was trying to post this:
: O )
Like a guy with a clown nose...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
There's this "Edit" button . . . and this "Disable Graemlins" checkbox . . .
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: There's this "Edit" button . . . and this "Disable Graemlins" checkbox . . .
Using those features...hm...it's so crazy it just might work!
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
)