quote: * NOTE- THIS IS A JOINT US-TURKEY RESOLUTION*
The conflict between Israel and Palestine is truly one of the defining issues of our day. Many times, we have tried to solve this issue, and we have failed. However, it is now time to pick up and truly take hold of this issue. We have done this in this resolution.
In a spirit of comraderie, Turkey and the US have been discussing a comprehensive strategy to combat this issue. The US has also been a constant supporter of Israel, and we will continue to be. We will continue to fund their military, give them aid and moral support. However, we understand this must be a neutral resolution that gives both sides a chance to experience peace.
In discussions, Turkey outlined the needs of Palestine. They said Palestine needs to understand and adopt democracy, slowly, at their own rate. They need to understand rule of law. Finally, they need to have a working and providing economy for all of its people. We could not agree more.
Therefore, in a true alliance, the US and Turkey propose the Plan for Peace and Freedom in Palestine. It will deal firstly with the West Bank. If and when the Hamas government falls, if it is the will of the people, it will be extended to the Gaza Strip.
MILITARY PLAN
1) To begin, Israeli troops will begin a phased and diplomatically charged withdrawal from the Arab regions of the West Bank. The Israelis will retain the other regions.
2) Once that is complete, Turkish troops (with US backup support) will move into the West Bank. They will act as a neutral and trusting Muslim power, protecting the national government and ensuring terrorism is kept in check.
3) Once (2) is done, Turkey will begin training new troops to keep order, especially Special Ops forces.
4) The US will diplomatically engage Fatah to ensure this plan goes smoothly.
GOVERNMENTAL PLAN
1) Once basic security is reached, a Palestinian Consitution will be adopted. It will reflect the people's interests, with US and Turkish support.
2) Turkish and US judges will begin administering justice, and gradually new Palestinian judges will be appointed, more freedom given to the people. We will always be there to intervene when necessary
ECONOMIC PLAN
1) The US and Turkey will petition the UN for funds, and if we do not receive said funds, we will contribute money ourselves.
2) The money would go to build and train new industries, at first based mostly on farming and factory producing.
3) The US will assist will infrastructural funding.
With the plan outlined, some concerns will be raised on the eagerness of Israel, the Palestinian government, and the people of Palestine.
ISRAEL
The US will personally diplomatically engage Israel on this issue. We will ensure their support. They will be able to retain their rightful lands, as well as their rightful lands in the West Bank.
PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE
We believe the promise of a brighter economic and military future will ensure the ability of the Palestinian to cooperate.
To conclude, we believe this is a groundbreaking, netural and potentially productive resolution. The point of it is to provide Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) with a trusting power in Turkey to help its building. We will be also supporting Turkey with funds and diplomatic support in this endeavour. We would like to thank Turkey on joining us on the drafting of this truly revolutionary resolution, to ensure the peace, prosperity, and hope for the people of Palestine.
The US votes yes[usa]
I represent Israel in a UN simulation (all the other kickass countries were taken) and this i abou the first time that a resolution directly involving me is inovolved and I am not sure how to answer it. Vote nay or yay?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
"They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Yet again with the superfluou's apostrophe's.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Turkey? You want to bring in TURKEY?
Oh yeah. That'll work. Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
"They said Palestine needs to understand and adopt democracy, slowly, at their own rate."
They need the kind of help adopting democracy that doesn't mean declaring their elected government non-democratic and denying aid, owed tax revenues, etc. Fatah lost power in last year's(?) election because they were largely corrupt and not providing much help to the people.
I don't really think this proposal is a good idea, but at least people are thinking about this issue in creative ways, desiring a peaceful solution. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
So Israel has to give up land, entrust the safety of their people to Turkey, and all the while they'll be arming and training Special Operations forces for the Palestinian people?
Maybe if there were no Israeli settlements in the West Bank this would work, but because there are, it won't. First of all, Palestine won't go for it, even Hamas has recently said that their goal is to return to the borders they had before I think 1967. It also says nothing about the right of return, a key Palestinian point, or the release of prisoners. It also says nothing about the sharing of power over holy sites, especially Jerusalem.
I don't even think the US would go for it, because they can't afford it, not without already securing funds from the EU and Arab countries (which I think would actually be pretty easy).
I don't think Israel would feel very good about bringing in troops from Turkey that close to the border, and especially with training and arming Palestinians, not without serious guarantees of Israeli security. I think you need a Western force on the ground to help Israel, not just an infusion of money and hardware.
And without settling those other issues, I think you should say no. It needs to be more detailed, and the wants and desires of Israel need to be addressed much more firmly.
And it's neither here nor there, but that's not the correct format for a UN Resolution.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Israel would have trouble trusting the policing of the West Bank to America, much less Turkey. Vote nay, and loudly.
It's also worth noting that this particular resolution tramples all over the concept of national sovereignity, so there are several countries who'd vote "nay" on this no matter how they felt about Israel.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The Palestinians will never accept anything less than everything. Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, Beersheba... everything.
There's already an group called the Galilee Liberation Organization. Give them all of Judea and Samaria, and they'll still be trying to kill us for the rest.
So vote "no", because it will only whet their appetite. There's never been a case where they were given any kind of concession whatsoever and have not responded with heightened violence. This resolution would be a recipe for catastrophe.
That's utterly aside from the fact that a group that has never shown any inclination towards being civilized and peaceful has no "right" to a state of their own in the first place.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If I ever need to show someone an example of self-fulfilling prophecy in action, I can just point to almost any post of Lisa's. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
So easy for you to smarm, but facts are facts, Tom. Show me a case where concessions were made to them and they didn't erupt in violence. Ehud Barak offers them all of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and half of Jerusalem, and they start the second intifada. Israel offers them autonomy and pulls out of densely populated Arab areas, and they go berserk. Israel pulls out of Gaza unilaterally and renders 9000 of its own people homeless and jobless, and they immediately (the very same day) start firing rockets at us from the ruins of what had been Jewish towns.
So smarm all you like, Tom. Babble on about "self-fulfilling prophecies" while you keep your eyes squeezed shut and stick your fingers in your ears to keep reality from disturbing your naive worldview.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Lisa, your glaring prejudice on this issue makes it impossible to actually reason with you, so I'll content myself with snarking. Suffice it to say that I think your spin on the facts -- while factual on its face -- is not an entirely fair summation of the situation.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote: The government and people of Israel must firmly and loudly vote nay to this resolution.
In princeple while we appreciate the gesture from Turkey and our US allies there are glaring fundamental flaws, it would work if there were no jewish settlements in the west bank, it would work if history hasn't proved that the Palistinian government and people have taken advantage of nearly every concession and demanded more.
We also are very much suspiscious of the motives of Turkey in this matter especially in regards to training of Palistinians and for that matter spec ops forces which could very well use their new talents against israel. This resolution has also would very much trample over the very concept of national soveriengty: Ours.
We don't need Muslems troops training more muslem men to attack our people, we need western troops on the ground and serious garantees to the issue of security, and far more details.
And lastly not even Palistine would agree to this as it solves none of their outstanding political issues and would I repeat use the protection of turkish troops to protect them from reprisels.
So Israel votes NAY and requests this resolution be vetoed until we can properly be resolved.
K, here's my responce, how should i proceed?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Lisa, your glaring prejudice on this issue makes it impossible to actually reason with you, so I'll content myself with snarking. Suffice it to say that I think your spin on the facts -- while factual on its face -- is not an entirely fair summation of the situation.
You misspelled "I don't actually have any way to support my gut feelings on the issue, and it makes me uncomfortable when you present facts that I can't refute, so I'm going to pretend that you're the one who isn't looking at reality and simply engage in hit-and-run smarm."
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: "They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
"Who? The Narn or the Centauri?"
"Yes"
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
firstly which episode of Bab5 is that a reference to and whats the context.
Next I got China to veto it until the resolution can be properly revised.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: K, here's my responce, how should i proceed?
>_<
Use a spell-checker on it.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Loudly seconded.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
cant edit posts after .1 hour of the original posting Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Whoa. Mucus, I just (literally 1 minute ago) finished watching the Pilot episode of Babylon 5.
BB, that was the Volron, Ambassador Kosh, speaking to Commander Sinclair about the Narn and the Centauri.
The context is that the Narn and the Centauri are continuously plotting and quarreling against one another, and upholding hundred year old quest for revenge to a point where there is no end to the cycle.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Vorlon.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Teeny-nitpick: That quote is from "Midnight on the Firing Line" which is the first episode of regular Babylon 5 but is not actually the pilot. That honour goes to "The Gathering."
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Mucus, I was not aware. But I promise, give me time to watch them all (this was the first one I watched) I'll be able to quote them accurately along with the best.
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