I can't abide classic rock. I loved it in its time, and I can see why young people who haven't heard it ten-gazillion times already like it too. But it's soooooooooo overplayed. Even the really good stuff from back then, they picked 50 good songs from and play those. They never branch out into the less well known stuff.
I think my brain has a certain number of listens it can take on any particular piece of music. Something like Beethoven's Ninth has a huge number of listens, probably 1000 or more, while some fluffy pop something-or-other has maybe only 2. Possibly none. Depending. Most music is somewhere in between. Really good music has something like 200 - 600 listens in it.
A lot of that classic rock stuff was great in its time. It might have even been up in the rare over-500-listens category. So I perfectly understand why young people like it. I guess I just used up my listens for that stuff a long long time ago. When you get into twice-the-rated-listens territory, your brain starts doing reject maneuvers sort of like the way your stomach reacts when you put something into it that's long past its expiration date, you know? In the past I've been known to bolt from stores due to the quality of their elevator music. Now I simply pop in my trusty mp3 player which I keep with me at all times and crank up some soothing Tool, Nine Inch Nails, or Radiohead (for now).
Am I the only one like this? It seems to me from observation that the vast majority of humans listen to the same music they liked in high school and college for the rest of their lives. My Dad played hundreds of gigs for the people now in their 80s who grew up during WW2 to dance to Glenn Miller. People who were young in the 50s want Motown from now on, etc. Almost everyone seems to want those same few songs they loved as a teen and young adult. Over and over. And over. And over again. What's up with that?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I think a lot of people become attached to music they heard in junior high/high school just because they have memories. I mean, even if you had a crappy time in high school, I think it's natural to look back on the music that connected with you back then and to be attracted to it still.
I wasn't allowed to listen to the radio until I turned 15. I had to go back and listen to a whole lot of songs for the first time after that...songs that my peers listen to the first time around. It's kind of weird, I guess, but it means that pretty much all music is new to me...so I don't really have a particular time period that I'm attached to.
-pH
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I looooooove classic rock. THey really knew how to write songs back then. Especially stuff like Comfortably Numb. But I'd get stoned in an unfun way if I admited that I HATE Hotel California, Sweet Home Alabama, that You' Aint' Seen Nothing Yet song, and various Billy Joel songs that EVERYONE likes but me.
There are songs I can listen to over and over again and never get tired of such as the Fog by Kate Bush which I heard for the first time a few months ago. Or Home by Zero 7. I can't say I am attached to one particular time, but it's delightful to hear songs I like from when I was a kid, and painful to hear others. I just got into Nightwish now and Amaran.
Also, Tatiana, you might like Dir en grey if you love NIN and Tool because you just can't go wrong with them, but they have the syndrome just a bit and Dir en grey shocks me by not having it.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
pH, I have lots of good memories from hs and college that are connected with music that now strikes me as old-hat. So I think it must be something different about me. I would be interested in hearing from other musicians, how it works for them. Because I know a lot of musicians who range freely over all time periods in their listening, which is sort of how I do except I avoid most stuff from the 60s, 70s, and 80s as much as possible, and to a lesser extent the 90s. I wonder if you, Pearce, will continue to listen to music from almost all time periods as time goes by, as I do.
Syn, I agree with you about Hotel California, Sweet Home Alabama, You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, and Billy Joel. Just typing the titles is giving me the heebeejeebies. I will have to check out Dir en grey. I am always looking for new bands I like. I do fall in love with certain songs and listen to them over and over, and it would seem that I am never going to tire of them. Lateralus is like that, the whole cd. I can't seem to get tired of it no matter how many times I play it. But still, a decade or two later I've usually moved on. If I'm still playing Lateralus in 2017 something is wrong.
[ September 02, 2007, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Certain music evokes certain memories in me -- as well as certain mindsets and moods. Since I know they do this, its much simpler to just re-play them to recapture the mood/memory/mindset...rather than searching for new songs that may or may not do the same thing.
Even more simply, some songs are just awesome. It's sort of like asking "why do you always think this painting is beautiful?" or "why do you always want to spend time with people you love?" Because you do, obviously. It brings you pleasure.
That's not to say, however, that I don't look for new music to enjoy. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I tend to like some cheesy 60s, 70s, and 80s song. Like i listen to "How deep is your love" by the Bee Gees over and over some times, or The Way I want to Touch you or Miracles. Even though these songs were written ages ago, I just incorporate them into my experiences. I like almost all sorts of music except the songs that irratate me like Piano Man or Scenes from an Itallian Resturant or Don't go Breaking my Heart >< I hate cheesy male female duets.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Honestly, I think it has to do with an affinity for a type of music that is developed through repetition and ingrained when people first discover the music of their generation.
Frankly, it's starting to make me feel old - this new fangled hip hop crap that my 11-year-old cousin listens to and loves grates on my ears like nothing else. But my mother can't stand the Goo Goo Dolls, Oasis, Sublime, Green Day, et al that I play at high volume when I'm hanging around the house. I think I'll probably always like bands that sound like the type of music that was really popular in the mid to late 90s - which was when I came of age from a musical perspective.
I enjoy classic rock, as well, but honestly I think that's in part because that style of pop/rock music came back a little bit in the late 90s. I like the Beatles etc of the 60s more than I like the Zeppelin and Pink Floyd of the 70s.
And I have a soft spot in my heart for the sugar pop of Hansen, N Sync and the Backstreet Boys, even if I can't stand to hear their most popular singles played one more frickin' time.
So while a lot of 18-25s like classic rock right now, I'm not sure that affinity will extend to the slightly younger generations now just starting to listen to popular music. And I still like new bands that have familiar sounds.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I think a lot of it is that for a mot of people music is more than music. It can evoke a lot of memories, but more than that it evokes the same emotions those feelings bring with them.
In Dave Wolverton's Serpent Catch, that would be called it's kwea.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Oh yeah? Well...I'll kwea you!
-pH
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
So true, for me music is scent, colour, memory, all sorts of feelings hidden in every song, books I've read, the whole 9.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
Its kinda funny but the songs that I would call my time-tested favorites are ones that I only listen to every so often. I still have my collection of current favorites that I actively listen to, but they only last a couple weeks until disappearing into the lengthy "Music->Songs" list on my iPod, generally to be forgotten.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I like a particular sound: heavily melodic, full, with a harsh edge. Music of any era that falls into that category finds a place on my shelf.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I wonder if it's like there's this one window of opportunity in the life of a normal human's brain where they're open and receptive to new music? After that time they seem to stick mostly with what they already know and love. But it's never happened for me, the end of that time. I'm not sure why not. There's some sort of extreme neoteny going on with me in general, so maybe that's just one more thing. I seriously don't think I'm human. I think I might have speciated.
I'm curious to know what it's like for other people. Leonide, what age range were you when you first came to like the music you still like best?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't think so. I listen to new stuff all the time, but I still like some of the stuff from when I was younger as well.
Part of it, at least for me, is that most of the stuff that comes out is crap, but most of the fluff gets left behind fairly quickly. Most of the stuff that continues on has something good about it, even if it isn't always my favorite stuff.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I like a particular sound: heavily melodic, full, with a harsh edge. Music of any era that falls into that category finds a place on my shelf.
Ooo you should listen to Dir en grey.
Is it just me or do people develop their own tastes in music around Jr. high? I know I did. Opera, lite jazz, old skool jazz, old skool r and b.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
"most of the stuff that comes out is crap" has always been true, though, of course. I think this idea in general, can in some cases just be a restatement of "these kids today, they don't know what real music is!" which has been uttered by old people throughout time from days immemorial. You know what I mean? The state of "music today" almost always looks totally different to young people than it does to older people.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I believe there are as many different responses to different kinds of music as there are people--so much so that you can't generalize and say, "All people react to music this way, or develop tastes in this manner." I agree with Kwea that response to music is an emotional response, and everyone has different experiences and different emotional makeups.
In the same way that some people enjoy travel and some don't, some people (of ALL ages) enjoy new musical experiences and some don't. And, to my mind, there shouldn't be any judgment attached to that. It's a matter of personal opinion and response.
(Now, if you're studying music as a profession, to me, that's a different story. If you're intending to make it your profession, you have an obligation to explore as many kinds of music, from all eras, as you can, in order to make you a more nuanced and well-rounded musician. Always in my opinion, of course.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I think I might have speciated.
Try reproducing, just to see what happens.
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
I think the ratio of quality-to-crap music is roughly the same now as it has always been Our industrialized music culture, media, generation of kids, etc. just seem to underline the annoying, repetitive stuff.
Bottom line for me is, there are some songs from the past 40 years that I think are incredible...and some that have been made even in the past couple years that I think rival everything from back then. It's so easy to just shut yourself up in nostalgia and dismiss everything modern. But talented, beautiful music is always being made, and definitely worth searching for in my opinion Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
85% of the time, when I hear a new song, I have no opinion of it whatsoever. I have to hear the song again and again, and over a few listens, I will either grow to like it or grow to hate it. I assume that most people are like that.
Music is important to me, and I have met people with remarkably similar taste. Sometimes they are younger, my age or way older. In all cases, they're pretty rare. But then, I was never very close with "my generation."
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Saephon, I agree with your post entirely! (Except whatever music someone doesn't like, they usually consider to be annoying and repetitive. Or else they say that it's just full of bangs and crashes. There are quotes spanning time with these two observations/assessments in them, about music from Bach to Stravinsky to Elvis to avant garde Jazz, to whatever you can imagine. )
DevilDreamt, I'm the same way exactly. It takes me a while to decide if I like something, and how much. Also, music is very important to me. I've found a lot of people with similar taste to me, but not anyone my age who listens to the kind of music I like now. They mostly seem to like only the music they liked when they were younger. I think I'm just weird.
[ September 02, 2007, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: I can't abide classic rock. I loved it in its time, and I can see why young people who haven't heard it ten-gazillion times already like it too. But it's soooooooooo overplayed. Even the really good stuff from back then, they picked 50 good songs from and play those. They never branch out into the less well known stuff.
Try this. They do deep tracks sometimes. But even when they don't, it's just great music.
I like listening to the same music over and over. I generally have one album playing on my computer at any given time, and the player is set to loop, so that when it ends, it starts again. I'll basically hear the same album 9-10 times a day.
Currently, my daily album is Jackson Browne (a compilation I made myself, because I don't like any of the ones that exist). Eleven tracks, repeated over and over.
Before that, it was Celtic Odyssey. Before that it was The Guess Who - Greatest Hits. Before that, it was an Israeli group called the Shalosharim. It's been Heart - Dreamboat Annie. It's been Once More, With Feeling (BtVS). It's been Arik Einstein's Greatest Hits. When I feel like a change, I find another album that suits me and switch to it. I could stream WDRV (the link I gave you above, but I don't need to use the bandwidth. I listen to The Drive in the car.
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: Am I the only one like this? It seems to me from observation that the vast majority of humans listen to the same music they liked in high school and college for the rest of their lives.
Or various times in my life. I love stuff from the late 60s and early 70s as well, which is before my high school years. And there's a bunch of stuff from the mid-90s (Sheryl Crow, Shawn Colvin, etc) that I like as well.
But I've listened to the albums Year of the Cat (Al Stewart), Down Under (Men at Work), Night and Day (Joe Jackson), CSN (CSN), Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds and so on hundreds and hundreds of times. And I'm sure I'll listen to it hundreds of times more.
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: My Dad played hundreds of gigs for the people now in their 80s who grew up during WW2 to dance to Glenn Miller. People who were young in the 50s want Motown from now on, etc. Almost everyone seems to want those same few songs they loved as a teen and young adult. Over and over. And over. And over again. What's up with that?
I don't get the problem.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've probably listened to my favorite Dave Matthews music a couple hundred times, and will continue to listen to it hundreds more. Same thing with the London recording of Les Mis, and for my James Darrin, Gomez, Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Bobby Darin and to a lesser degree Michael Buble. And there's a few soundtracks I listen to on a fairly continuous basis (BSG, Gettysburg, Star Wars, Glory, etc).
For the big pop or rock songs of the day, chances are I'll listen to them somewhat often for a few months and then they'll fall by the wayside except for random times every couple years I'll pull them out. Really good ones here and there I'll listen to more often.
Classical I have to be in the mood for, which is fairly often, but I think I've listened to the Fantasia music, the planets, and some bits of Chopin, Beethoven, Handel, Dvorak, Stravinsky and others more often. New classical I don't get to very often. Without buying a new cd (having no idea what it sounds like), it's hard to get access to classical I haven't heard on a regular basis.
But I think for a lot of people, maybe everyone, there are songs that will just never get old. I'm always open to new music, but I'll never get sick of my favorites.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
When I was growing up, what is now called "classic rock" was cutting edge stuff. A lot of it was crap, but it was new...just like a lot of what is coming out now is crap, but it is new crap.
So for me, listening to classic rock is like visiting with old friends. Sure sometimes the old friends are showing their age, and some of those old friends are slightly dysfunctional (and probably were when they first came out, but who noticed?). Still, they're old friends, and I treasure them.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I love listening to my favorite albums repeatedly. I'm 27, so it's not like i've been listening to them for 20 or 30 years, but it's been long enough that I can safely say that my favorites will continue to be my favorites for life. I have a base of 3 main bands that I always come back to, Floyd, Beatles, and Radiohead. These bands are in various degrees of rotation at all times, regardless of what else I'm listening to. Bands that I loved pre-highschool(GnR, Metallica, Aerosmith) and during high school(beastie boys, pearl jam, sublime, Chili Peppers, Dave Matthews, etc...) still get played once in a while, but nowhere near the amount of play time they used to. Dave Matthews is probably the exception to that and still gets decent regular play. My base I discovered in college and they haven't left.
That said, there's never a time where I'm not listening to something new. Whether it be new albums that have just come out, or just new albums I've discovered from different genres and decades, I'm always looking to hear new music. And I go through distinct phases. I'll be in a punk phase for a months, then an electronic phase, then a jazz phase, then a jam band phase, a friend has just turned me onto a lot of blue grass type stuff and I've been listening to that recently.
What I'm saying is that I think it's possible to listen to the music you love over and over again, and still be a well rounded musical listener open to hearing new sounds at the same time.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I go through modes- sometimes I want to hear hard rock, sometimes I want to hear celtic music, sometimes I want to hear reggae or jazz or "prog rock" or something entirely different. If I like something I may listen to it repeatedly, and then I'll go through a spell where- acknowledging I still like a song- I don't want to hear it again for months.
And while some songs may have "a certain number of listens", I've also noticed that some songs grow on me after hearing them a few times, while others start out benign (or at least innocuous) and grow tedious and/or irritating.
I heard Fastball's "The Way" a few times before I started to appreciate that the way it switched between moods and melody lines was really pretty interesting; conversely, "In the Arms of the Angels" started out soothing and became something I was ready to stick a sharp object into my ear to avoid hearing again.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I hated high school when I was there, but there is something about the music (new wave 80's) that makes me feel young, which seems good even though I was miserable. Sometimes. I go weeks without listening to the radio. But just talking about it now, I do believe there was, if you will, an innocence to that time. Financially, at least.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I think I must make a point that has doubtlessly been made before at some time in history. All popular music has been called depraved and the tool of the downfall of youth, and it has never been true. Even something as innocent as ragtime was once labeled such a way. </rant>
Beginning about ten years ago, I loved classic rock because I spent a lot of time with my dad and it's what he listened to. I took in everything that emerged from the speakers. I listened to it all of the time whenever I had a chance. Recently it has grown to grate on me, except for the very best stuff, in my opinion of course. The Who, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Cream, Rush* etc. are some of the bands that I can still listen to and not get bored. These bands have aged well. Boston, for example, hasn't.
I am trying to like stuff from later, and it's going well, but lately I have been listening to the country music I liked as a child in the 90's. That brings back good memories.
*Rush still rocks! W00T!
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: Boston, for example, hasn't.
On the whole, i agree with you, but I still love to listen to "More than a Feeling" and it's one of my favorite "Guitar Hero" songs, too.
I doubt I'll ever tire of it... as I remember when it was a current hit on the radio.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I'll just echo the fact that there is lots of music, especially in classic rock, that I always skip or change the station for because it has been overplayed tenfold. I get a huge eyeroll and feel the need to get away soon.
Sweet Home Alabama is the number one offender here. I'll never be able to enjoy this song again. I loved it when I was 7-8, but I don't see how anyone can like it after the 50th hearing. Others off the top of my head:
Black Dog/Rock and Roll off Led Zeppelin IV For the Longest Time by Billy Joel--ugh Popular songs from the 50's (I-vi-IV-V, repeat) Back in Black by AC/DC Walk this Way by Aerosmith
It's sad because they were all once some of my favorite songs. Blech.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
The three that I can really listen to over and over again are: Beatles The Who Billy Joel (though it seems there are quite a few who dislike him, it seems more so that you have only heard a few of his songs, and his less known ones are probably some of his best)
I have been listening to ABBA and The Carpenters a fair amount lately, and perhaps one of the two, or both, will stick, or perhaps I will end up not listening to either much in the end.
Of the things which I listen to occasionally, but not as often as the aforementioned, they include Elton John, Showtunes (including 90's Disney movies), BNL, Aretha Franklin, Beach Boys (probably more often than any of the others mentioned), and I just realized that I am about to list pretty much every artist on my itunes and considering that I have over 6,000 songs that may take a while.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I don't dislike Billy Joel. There are just some songs of his that annoy me deeply.
Even Just the way You are annoys me. I really like that song, but I can't help thinking that if the woman changed he'd be singing a different tune.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
I guess I mix my music up enough that I don't tire of classic rock at all. The only ones I have to watch out on are:
Aerosmith (c'mon, just about every song he does is the same thing) Ozzy Osbourne (I'm a way much bigger Dio fan) The Who Steppenwolfe Alice Cooper Deep Purple and The Eagles
I still listen to them now and then, just not as much. But I play mp3 CDs in my truck and you'll find anything from Elvis to Soil on it. And it usually takes a few days to get back around to playing over at the beginning again.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I will go on record as deeply disliking Billy Joel, though I did like him a long time ago in the 70s. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Dio? Naw. Dio BS songs are cool, but kicking out Ozzy was a stupid idea.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Seeing as Ozzy would have quit the group eventually to go solo, it really doesn't matter. The group did him a huge favor by firing him.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
He did get more popular than them according to his wife.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Well, as a solo artist he did. Including all his antics. I had to laugh when he did the Reunion Tour. Everyone was talking about BS being together again....BS never left. That whole 30 year span wasn't without BS. It just didn't have Ozzy in it. But Ozzy's voice really seems to annoy me at times in his songs. He's got some excellent music out there, don't getme wrong. However, Dio just had something...his voice just sounded better. And I know I'm not alone. Being a Dio fan got me a discount on a new leather jacket at a bike show a few years back.
I rather dig Ozzy's voice.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Different strokes for different folks.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
As a 20 year old, I guess I haven't lived lon genough to get tired of too much music.
However, I have been finding my tastes continuing to develop, and enjoying music I used to dislike, and finding myself liking certain bands I used to like (such as the Fray) less and less.
Thanks to youtube, I can listen to the music I like, and find new songs, time and time agian.
I like a lot of j-pop, even if I can't always understand it easily. (I mean, I listen to a LOT of j-pop.)
I don't really know what exactly the sound I like is, how to describe it. I wish I could... but here are a few current ones:
How Far We've Come (Matchbox 20)
Duvet (Boa)
Pachuca Sunrise (Minus the Bear)
El Manana (Gorillaz)
The Light Before We Land (The Delgados)
Through the Glass (Stone Sour)
Pachabel's Canon, Ode to Joy and a bunch of other classical pieces
Kryptonite
All Along the Watchtower
I dunno what it is. They all seem to have something. Maybe not even the same something, but a certain something.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I recently read a great book by the neurobiologist Daniel Levitin, called "This Is Your Brain on Music." He describes how, based on current research, it appears that there is actually a biological basis for the development of musical tastes. In particular, the styles of music you listen to from your teenage years through your early twenties set a template for what you will generally find enjoyable for the rest of your life.
You're actually receptive to all sorts of music starting from childhood- babies, for example, don't seem to demonstrate any particular bias towards one culture's music versus any others. But adolescence and young adulthood is generally when people also begin to branch out and explore music on their own, to seek it out independently. As a result, that is when they are exposed to the greatest variety in music. Once you pass the early-to-mid-twenties, your brain actually loses a lot of its ability to "accept" new musical ideas. As a result, most people become attached to the music of their young adulthoods, which neatly explains both why oldies stations persist (and the age of their listeners), and why older folks often complain about how newer music just sounds like noise to them.
On an unrelated note: those are some great choices, 0Megabyte. I looooooooooove the Delgados (and sadly, know few others who do). Same goes for Boa, a talented British band whose careers have been sadly overshadowed by the Korean pop star of the same name.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Ooo He should test my brain on music.
Also, there is that Lane song, do they sing that? Not Lane, Lain.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
0Megabyte -
Which version of AATW? It's one of the more covered songs that I can think of in modern music history. DMB's version isn't bad, and though I bet few would agree, my favorite version is the one from Battlestar Galactica. Of course the original is good too.
Posted by enjeeo (Member # 2336) on :
I like it all - all the stuff I've loved in the past plus the (good) stuff that's in the charts now. But there's no denying that the songs that were popular when I was in highschool bring back certain memories so sharply that they will always be a little beloved. I can't get sick of them any more than I could get sick of remembering my friends from back then.
Doesn't stop me loving Maroon 5 and Powderfinger though. Good music is good music and I'm not denying myself of it because of fond memories.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
To Tarrsk:
Yes. Boa has been overshadowed by BoA.
Duvet is, like, one of my top ten songs, ever. Probably always will be.
And the Delgados... well. I haven't heard much of them, but damn!
Lyrhawn: Of course the BSG version! But I like the Jimi Hendrix version too.
Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
I prefer Dio as well. i live a sort of sheltered life. In high school I totally got into the album Holy Diver, and my mind was completely blown like two years later when i heard Holy Diver on the radio. For some reason, I just assumed that I was the only Dio fan in the entire universe (seeing as how no one that I knew at the time had any idea who they were).
Whenever Holy Diver would play on the radio at work, we would all drop what we were doing and rock out. I mean, how could you not?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: I recently read a great book by the neurobiologist Daniel Levitin, called "This Is Your Brain on Music." He describes how, based on current research, it appears that there is actually a biological basis for the development of musical tastes. In particular, the styles of music you listen to from your teenage years through your early twenties set a template for what you will generally find enjoyable for the rest of your life.
You're actually receptive to all sorts of music starting from childhood- babies, for example, don't seem to demonstrate any particular bias towards one culture's music versus any others. But adolescence and young adulthood is generally when people also begin to branch out and explore music on their own, to seek it out independently. As a result, that is when they are exposed to the greatest variety in music. Once you pass the early-to-mid-twenties, your brain actually loses a lot of its ability to "accept" new musical ideas. As a result, most people become attached to the music of their young adulthoods, which neatly explains both why oldies stations persist (and the age of their listeners), and why older folks often complain about how newer music just sounds like noise to them.
That's interesting. Because I had a strong dislike for country until my late 20s, and now I really enjoy it. And while I've always liked classical music, it's definitely something I have come to enjoy more with maturity.
And I still love all the pop songs and songs-that-were-"oldies"-even-then from my teen years.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Heh, I said you lose a "lot" of your natural ability to take in new musical ideas, not all of it. Also, I suspect that late-20s is close enough to Levitin's age barrier that you'd still be well within the usual range for human beings.
The mental barrier is also certainly something that can be overcome with effort- which I suspect is the case for your developing appreciation for classical. In fact, I think that may be an excellent example of what Levitin writes about, which includes a whole ton of detail that I left out of my hasty summary. The basic patterns (melody, harmony, scales, rhythms) of classical music were ingrained in your mind early on, but mature appreciation comes from understanding how a particular piece upholds and subverts elements of those structures, something that has its foundation in your basic appreciation of said structures, but also involves more complex mental acrobatics on your part. It leaves the realm of simple neurobiological patterning and dives into active cognition.
Regarding your oldies appreciation, my question is: how old were you when you started listening to them? That's what matters.
quote:Yes. Boa has been overshadowed by BoA.
Duvet is, like, one of my top ten songs, ever. Probably always will be.
That whole album is fantastic. I love Jasmine Rodgers' voice.
quote:And the Delgados... well. I haven't heard much of them, but damn!
Make sure you get the entire album off which "Light Before We Land" is taken ("Hate"), as well as their last album ("Universal Audio"). Their older albums are very good as well, but those two are their masterpieces.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Sweet Home Alabama is the number one offender here. I'll never be able to enjoy this song again. I loved it when I was 7-8, but I don't see how anyone can like it after the 50th hearing.
Because I went to college in Alabama, and it was a time of growth and change about which I never hear reference any more in my daily life. "Sweet Home Alabama" coming on the radio is the closest I come to hearing a twang of a Southern accent (Olivet's is too genteel to count ), the only time I hear the words "kin," "Alabama," "Muscle Shoals," and "gu'bnor" ever again.
It isn't that I think it's a great song, but rather that is plays a role other than just "song" to my ears.
There are more things, Horatio. Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Tarrsk, I find what you said about that book interesting. I think that's sort of what I'm seeing, some physiological thing that happens to many/most people when they get older that keeps them from being able to like new music, and keeps them liking the music they used to like forever. My brain never did that. I'm a mutant.
I think many hatrackers are probably atypical when it comes to music, as they are in many other regards.
I wonder if there's a difference between musicians and regular folk in this respect? It seems like there's a sort of "musician's brain" musically speaking that responds differently to music than regular people's brains do. Maybe that's all it is. My dad continued to have the capacity to appreciate new music until he was in his late 60s. He liked TMBG. I think that was the last band I was able to get him into. I remember he totally didn't get Beck. (But part of that is that he didn't get stuff that was mostly about rhythm, so he didn't like poetry and he never got hip hop.)
Oh, that's another thing I'm curious about. Do you get into poetry? Does that correlate with the type of music you like? (rhythmic/melodic/harmonic)
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I don't particularly buy this everyone likes just the music from their own generation argument. My preferences are if it is good music from any era I like it. Now, there are KINDS of music I can't stand (and that includes screaming hard rock, Opera, fluff pop, Rap and R & B), but that doesn't have anything to do with when they were recorded or played.
On the other hand, if you were not to know my music preferences then you would guess it was a generational thing. That is because what is popular now is everything that I hate in music styles. So, from what is enjoyed by the current generation has me believe that music really has died. I know there is underground music, as I am told, but that doesn't make up for the absolutely terrible stuff heard on the radio or accepted by the open masses today. If you want to call it a case of generational disfavor that is fine. I call it the perpetuation of bad taste.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I would be willing to accept that you may set in your taste by your mid 20's, however that doesn't mean you have to be stuck listening to the same songs over and over for the rest of your life. I am always looking for new music. It may be in the same style, but I always need new music. I've got 4,200 songs on my IPOD and I am still looking for new stuff.
In high school I did the whole classic rock thing, now I don't want to hear any of the 50 songs they play on the radio. From time to time I like to go back and listen to a few of the albums so I can enjoy some of the lesser known songs, but it won't stay on my play list for long.
When I got my new car I thought the satellite radio was really cool, especially the 90's alt rock station. I got to hear some cool songs from the 90's I hadn't heard in a few years. It reminded me of college, but then realized they only played 50 songs also. I quickly lost interest.
There are a few bands I find I have consistently listen to over the years, U2, Big Head Todd, Pearl Jam but if they don't come out with anything new that is good I find they don't get played very often.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote: Which version of AATW? It's one of the more covered songs that I can think of in modern music history. DMB's version isn't bad, and though I bet few would agree
I actually LOVE DMB's verion. Particularly one 12 minute version I have. If it's not that 12 minute version, I'll take Hendrix's over Dylan's any day. Even though I dig Dylan way more than Hendrix in general.
And I think 'Yesterday' is the most covered song in history.
And I don't know why I just thought of it, but has anyone heard the bluegrass version of Gin and Juice. Arguably one of the best covers ever made. Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
It seems like a lot of y'all are misunderstanding what I was saying (or maybe I wasn't explaining it well). Levitin isn't saying that people only ever listen to music from their generation, or that people will only listen to the same actual pieces of music after a certain age. He's saying (and the evidence supports him) that human brains, at any given point in time, have a certain amount of the ability to absorb new musical concepts and structures. This ability, in the average human being, peaks in young adulthood, and drops dramatically after adulthood is reached. Why does a backbeat sound natural to folks raised on rock 'n roll or hip hop, but not to someone who listened exclusively to classical music growing up? Why do I like the sound of a power chord (a chord consisting only of the root and the 5th), while my parents find the sound oddly abrasive? All of these things have their basis in your brain, and in the types of music you were exposed to/ sought out in your youth.
This does not preclude you from learning to enjoy other types of music after your 20s. It just means that it'll take a bit, or sometimes a lot, more effort to get into the headspace you need to appreciate it. For example, I was able to get my mother, who primarily likes classical and gospel music, to appreciate Radiohead's "Kid A," an experimental record that mixes elements of electronica with rock instrumentation and subversion of traditional musical theory. But I had to explain what it was that I found so naturally stirring about the dissonant strings in "How To Disappear Completely" or the heavy syncopated beats in "Idioteque," because liking those musical motifs isn't "natural" for her brain. Once she was able to intellectualize "Kid A" and work it through in her mind, however, she was quite able to enjoy it, but it never just immediately clicked for her the way it did for me.
Occasional, I think that you in particular misunderstood what I was saying. In fact, I would bet money that what you described about your own musical tastes would line up perfectly with Levitin's theories. Again, he says nothing about individual songs, or even about people being somehow naturally inclined to only like music from their own generation. What matters is the elements of music that you learn to like early on. In your case, it sounds like you probably grew up listening to various forms of rock 'n roll and pop. There are particular melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic structures associated with those styles of music that became the basis for what you like today. In particular, since you mention U2 and Pearl Jam, I'm guessing you are attracted to arena rock elements like soaring guitars, passionate sung vocals, and live drumming. Now think about the other kinds of music you do like, including those rare underground artists of today. Do they share any of these elements with Pearl Jam and U2? My bet would be that they do. Are they Pearl Jam cover bands or U2 imitators? Of course not. But they do share the same underlying structures, and you have developed a set of musical tastes that includes those structures.
quote: I wonder if there's a difference between musicians and regular folk in this respect? It seems like there's a sort of "musician's brain" musically speaking that responds differently to music than regular people's brains do. Maybe that's all it is. My dad continued to have the capacity to appreciate new music until he was in his late 60s. He liked TMBG. I think that was the last band I was able to get him into. [Smile] I remember he totally didn't get Beck. (But part of that is that he didn't get stuff that was mostly about rhythm, so he didn't like poetry and he never got hip hop.)
Levitin devotes a significant amount of time to discussing how musicians perceive and execute music. IIRC there is only a difference insofar as musicians have conditioned their minds to focus on the elements of music in a way that the casual listener has not. At least, this is true of your average musician. True prodigies (including folks with perfect pitch) do actually demonstrate a neurological difference- different areas of the brain are active while listening to music, and sometimes areas of the brain associated with music are larger than normal. The genetic disorder Williams Syndrome, for example, results in abnormalities in brain structure, and is associated with a number of symptoms, one of which is a much higher proportion than usual of affected people with perfect pitch.
Speaking for myself now, I could believe that musicians do also have something else that non-musicians may lack: an innate curiosity about music and enjoyment of music that breaks the rules they've learned. Keep in mind that our enjoyment of music comes from a mixture of satisfaction when we predict something successfully, and pleasurable surprise when something unexpected occurs- but only within certain limits. I suspect that musicians can deal with a far greater amount of musical surprise than non-musicians. When they experience a "Whoa, what was that?!" moment, musicians are more likely to subsequently think "Hmmm... why did I react like that? That's interesting!" rather than just automatically responding "Eww, that was unpleasant."
quote: Oh, that's another thing I'm curious about. Do you get into poetry? Does that correlate with the type of music you like? (rhythmic/melodic/harmonic)
It wouldn't surprise me if it did, but Levitin doesn't talk about poetry at all in his book. His background prior to getting his PhD was in instrumental performance and sound engineering, so I think he's generally more interested in the elements unique to music.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I'd love to buy the album Duvet is on, but I can't find it, even online, no matter how hard I've tried.
I will find Hate and that other album, though, and buy those ASAP!
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Tarrsk, I think I want to read that book.
One thing I notice is that I'm always hearing the background music that's going on wherever I happen to be and most people don't seem to be. Like I will make a comment about the song that's playing, and the person I'm speaking to, often the one who is actually PLAYING the music in question, like if the radio is on at their desk or whatever, had no idea it was happening and wasn't listening at all. I don't seem to have the ability to tune out music that's playing wherever I happen to be. I can concentrate on other stuff, but the musical part of my brain is still listening to the music, and it will send me "yeah, this is good!" or "yikes, this suxx0rzzzz!" signals fairly often.
I couldn't shop in the grocery store that played Hall & Oates a lot (a band that was popular, horribly overplayed, and never very good to begin with, at some point in the past that I'm trying to suppress my memories of so please don't remind me ) until I got my mp3 player and now I'm safe. Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Tarrsk,
There is no doubt I am attracted to rock music. I wouldn't limit it to area rock, but it has always been the music I love. I may branch out into folk, blues or even jazz based rock but it usually is rock. My statement about U2 & Pearl Jam was for Tatiana's original post stating that everyone listens to the same 50 songs on the classic rock station. Meaning just because you like a type of music, doesn’t mean you can only listen to the same songs over and over.
I actually found your post very fascinating and it seems to ring true to me. I don't know if it would be as hard to acclimate to the new music if you are first introduced to the precursors of that type of music. So you can build up a mental vocabulary of the basics for that music. I lived with my grandmother in college. She liked a little rock but not much. She indicated she like a few Pink Floyd songs I was listening to, so I introduced her to others that were similar, then to other bands with similar sounds, by the time I moved out I had her listening to Pearl Jam and the Chile Peppers. She really like them. I think when young people start listening to Led Zepplin or other classic rock in school they are really building up a musical language to understand the rock music that came later.
The same thing happened to me with folk/bluegrass music. I didn't start off with Bill Monroe, I started off with a rock/pop/country band and then branched off thinking that was pretty cool, I'll try that.
If you think of music as a language it would make since that it becomes harder to learn new ones as you get older. Just like spoken languages and it is easier to learn one closer to the one you already speak.
Back to Tatiana's original point. I think a lot of people don't care that much about music, so the can hear the same piece of music a million times without listening to it. So they learn a few popular songs early in there life and then for the rest of their life when they hear that song they subconsciously think “I like that song”, and that is as far as it goes. Since they aren't really listening to the song they don't get tired of it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I find it amazing that Google is recommending "Tous les Matins du Monde" down below. Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
SC Carver, "I think a lot of people don't care that much about music, so the can hear the same piece of music a million times without listening to it. So they learn a few popular songs early in there life and then for the rest of their life when they hear that song they subconsciously think “I like that song”, and that is as far as it goes. Since they aren't really listening to the song they don't get tired of it." That sounds true, and yet, most people when they're in their teens and 20s do seem to care more about music. It's later on that they stop caring.
I wonder if music as a social marker comes into it in any way? I have had the experience of finding out someone liked music I find insipid cause me to lose friendly feelings for them. I tell myself that's ridiculous, that everyone has their own tastes, etc. But it's definitely true that if I found out someone likes the same music I like, I feel more friendly toward them, and if I find out our musical tastes are drastically different, I feel less friendly, in other words, I have to try harder to find other ways to connect.
Another thing I've observed is that if someone I really like says some song or something is really good, maybe if it's even a song I previously disregarded, I might go back and listen to it with new ears and realize what they find so good about it. Friends (particularly those whose musical tastes I trust because they appreciate a lot of the music I know is good) can expand my tastes.
On the other hand, I've had close and dear friends with whom I share no overlapping music, we have zero bands or songs in common. So it's complicated, I guess.
To what extent do friends affect your musical tastes?
[ September 03, 2007, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I'd love to buy the album Duvet is on, but I can't find it, even online, no matter how hard I've tried.
I will find Hate and that other album, though, and buy those ASAP!
I bought my copy about a year ago used on Amazon. Looks like that's still an option. I love that track, but there's something that bothers me about the percussion. Can't quite put my finger on it. (My favorite drummers are Carter Beauford and Ringo Starr. Take that for what it's worth.)
I will never get tired of this one, no matter how many times it's played. And this particular performance is quite impressive.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike: I bought my copy about a year ago used on Amazon. Looks like that's still an option. I love that track, but there's something that bothers me about the percussion. Can't quite put my finger on it. (My favorite drummers are Carter Beauford and Ringo Starr. Take that for what it's worth.)
That's interesting... I love the drumming in "Duvet." The little snare and hi-hat rolls add a lot to the general skittish feeling of the song's instrumentation. Also, the drumming is in a fairly typical late-90s rock style (lots of variation in the beat between verses, choruses and the bridge, particularly in the hi-hats and kick drums), mixed using late-90s rock production (greater emphasis on the hi-hat sounds and a sharper snare sound than is common today, combined with a softer, more muted kick drum sound). Since the late 90s was exactly the period during which I was just beginning the development of my own musical tastes, it makes perfect sense under Levitin's paradigm that I'd love that drum track.
quote: There is no doubt I am attracted to rock music. I wouldn't limit it to area rock, but it has always been the music I love. I may branch out into folk, blues or even jazz based rock but it usually is rock. My statement about U2 & Pearl Jam was for Tatiana's original post stating that everyone listens to the same 50 songs on the classic rock station. Meaning just because you like a type of music, doesn’t mean you can only listen to the same songs over and over.
Ack, y'know what? I totally mixed in parts of your post with Occasional's post in my response up there. My bad.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote: Which version of AATW? It's one of the more covered songs that I can think of in modern music history. DMB's version isn't bad, and though I bet few would agree
I actually LOVE DMB's verion. Particularly one 12 minute version I have. If it's not that 12 minute version, I'll take Hendrix's over Dylan's any day. Even though I dig Dylan way more than Hendrix in general.
Which 12 minute version? One of my favorite things about DMB is that the DMB fan community records every single concert and then trades the live music around, so it's not uncommon to have 40 different versions of the same song from a single concert season, because it's DMB and they NEVER just play a song like it is on the cd, they jazz it up, or they slow it down, or they add a sax solor, or a violin solo, or hell, sometimes they even change the words.
I went to see DMB in Clarkston on the 23rd of August, and they closed with AATW, it was fantastic. Also most of his versions of AATW tend to be 8+ minutes. Do you know which album that AATW is from? Listener Supported? Live at Red Rocks? Or just some random recording from a concert?
I think part of why I continually find myself refalling in love with their music is that with every concert I go to, and every recording I download I either hear a new sound (when they write new material and test it out on the audience, and then you don't hear it again for 10 years), or they reinvent their old sound by replaying songs they've already written but much more amazingly than they'd ever sounded on the cd.
Anyway, I think you really have to love a band in order to listen to the same song played 100 different ways, and some might fault that, saying there is so much else out there, but I don't see why you can't do both. Dave himself advocates never staying with one thing forever:
"And if you hold on tight To what you think is your thing You may find you're missing all the rest."
- "The Best of What's Around" DMB
Got a bit carried away there.
Posted by enjeeo (Member # 2336) on :
0Megabyte
Let's talk jpop (or jrock!) sometime. I'm excited at the moment because I'm going back to Japan in November (it's been four years since I was there last) and I get to update my CD collection and see some bands. Yah!
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I grew up listening to classical music and stuff like the Beatles. That was the music we had at home and the radio was rarely on.
I began to branch out into Disney-style and Musicals as a young teen. Now, I listen to a peculiar mix of music that goes from Now back in time and stumbles all over the place (includes things from Mika, to Muse, to Madness, to Bowie, to The Who, to Sinatra, to Jaques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris to folk/music hall music and from Williams to Vaughn Williams to Beethoven.)
I tend to prefer classic rock radio stations simply because it's a somewhat edited version of the music from the era. I like it also because it's the sound I came from. Like SC Carver says, I think there is a certain amount of development in hearing and learning to like music: I began with the Beatles and branched out to other British sixties bands, moved to the seventies, the eighties and finally to the nineties which I consider close enough to now to be Now. I definitely lean to rock instead of pop. I guess I like three types of music: rock (begun with the Beatles), classical/soundtrack ( begun with classical music) and musicals (begun with things like The Sound of Music and My Fair Lady). All the music I like could probably be extrapolated from the music I grew up on. This would slowly become looser and stretchier as I got older.
However, I don't think I'll ever really get tired of songs I grew up with, especially since there will always be new music to balance it with or mix it with or compare it to.
What may be a part of this is I have a curious inability to judge music- especially popular music. I can't really tell you if I like a song until I've heard it at least four or five times. I don't often pick up on the lyrics until the ninth or tenth. I know what songs I really like because I go back to them again and again and I can listen to them on infinite loop and not become annoyed.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Do you know which album that AATW is from? Listener Supported? Live at Red Rocks? Or just some random recording from a concert?
I think it's from the Live in Chicago disc. Do you have that one?
I've seen Dave live more than any other band, their concerts are fantastic. Though I think 1999 was probably the last time I went to one of their shows. I managed to see them six plus times between 94-99.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I cared WAY more about music around 13-19 than I do now.
It makes me sad to think about having lost that part of my life, but in a way I think it was part of me "growing up". I am not particularly mad at the world, depressed at my social isolation, or hopelessly pining for an unavailable girl. Those childish feelings (and many others) were what connected me most to the music I loved.
I keep meaning to make an effort to get back into the newer music, but I haven't quite felt the motivation to yet.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: I cared WAY more about music around 13-19 than I do now.
It makes me sad to think about having lost that part of my life, but in a way I think it was part of me "growing up". I am not particularly mad at the world, depressed at my social isolation, or hopelessly pining for an unavailable girl. Those childish feelings (and many others) were what connected me most to the music I loved.
I keep meaning to make an effort to get back into the newer music, but I haven't quite felt the motivation to yet.
I was precisely this way. But I've always been very musically sympathetic. Today I still play piano/guitar quite frequently. I've found that writing my own songs about my own life is just as satisfying as listening to a love ballad as a love struck teenager. It's the closest thing I've got to those feelings nowadays. Sometimes it's just extremely satisfying to plug a guitar into an amp, turn up the distortion, play some solid chords, and sing along with it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote:Do you know which album that AATW is from? Listener Supported? Live at Red Rocks? Or just some random recording from a concert?
I think it's from the Live in Chicago disc. Do you have that one?
I've seen Dave live more than any other band, their concerts are fantastic. Though I think 1999 was probably the last time I went to one of their shows. I managed to see them six plus times between 94-99.
I haven't gotten around to Live at Chicago. I tend to download his concert music that hasn't been released on cd because it's free (and not illegal!).
I envy you having seen him in the 90's. You probably saw him at much smaller venues than I generally see him at, and he played all his old music all the time, which is the stuff I usually want to hear the most!
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: I cared WAY more about music around 13-19 than I do now.
It makes me sad to think about having lost that part of my life, but in a way I think it was part of me "growing up". I am not particularly mad at the world, depressed at my social isolation, or hopelessly pining for an unavailable girl. Those childish feelings (and many others) were what connected me most to the music I loved.
I keep meaning to make an effort to get back into the newer music, but I haven't quite felt the motivation to yet.
That makes me just a bit depressed. Music is my blood, as long as it's good and packed with deep interesting feeling
Not all of the new stuff is bad. There is Fair to Midland to consider... And Dir en grey... And Tori Amos... and Kate Bush, but she hasn't come out in a new album in some time...
Then there is classical and opera.
Am I the only one who goes from metal to hindi music to funk, then jazz, then back to metal again?
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Syn, my tastes are pretty eclectic. I've been into at various times classical, south african, colombian, west african, blues, rock, folk, bluegrass, alternative, jazz, and I'm sure there's more. I tend to think that there is good music in just about any genre, and my only requirement for music is that it be good. Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Why has there only been one CD in my car's CD player for the past month?
Because Queen is awesome. And I can always find new interesting parts to adore.
Maybe it'll change in a week or a month and I'll be on a kick of something else. Maybe it won't. It makes me happy and keeps me entertained, and that's enough for me.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Most music is somewhere in between. Really good music has something like 200 - 600 listens in it.![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
I will have to check out Dir en grey. I am always looking for new bands I like. I do fall in love with certain songs and listen to them over and over, and it would seem that I am never going to tire of them. Lateralus is like that, the whole cd. I can't seem to get tired of it no matter how many times I play it. But still, a decade or two later I've usually moved on. If I'm still playing Lateralus in 2017 something is wrong.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)