I'm leaving. I have been around too long and have accomplished far too little in that time.
I'm tired. Tired of being lonely. And yet I know that nothing can be done to change this. I've never belonged here, and I can no longer keep up appearances. Merely keeping myself upright is becoming too much of a strain lately.
It is unfair to others to keep hanging around and taking up precious space.
I wish you all nothing but the best.
Goodbye.
[ December 07, 2007, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Eduardo St. Elmo ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You are a valued member of this community and an important human being. There is no such thing as taking up precious space, you being somewhere doesn't harm anyone else. And it really, really sounds like you need to get some professional, real life help. Is there someone you can go talk to right now? If not, where are you, and let us find someone for you.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:There is no such thing as taking up precious space, you being somewhere doesn't harm anyone else.
Seconded.
Eduardo, are you OK? What's going on? This sounds like it extends beyond leaving Hatrack.
--j_k
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
I echo ElJay. Your view formthe Netherlands is always refreshing and worth a read.
If you need someone to talk to, we're in the same timezone at least, mail me (email in profile).
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
Eduardo,
You've got friends here. Don't let the effed-up chemistry in your brain override the rational part of you that knows that life is not as bad as it feels.
Talk to us, please.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I hope you'll return again before too long. I've taken a break now and then. I always thought there were good reasons, but it's always near the same time of year. Hmmm. There a time to post and a time to refrain from posting, or somethin'.
I looked back over your posts, and I want to emphasize that as someone who has been off meds for 15 years (but has had professional counseling and support groups), it is important to have folks to talk to, and to take into account that the imbalanced brain is on its own program, like a high-maintenance car. If your car has an oil light, you give it some oil. If it keeps coming back on, take it to the shop.
[ October 31, 2007, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Eduardo, I agree with the posters above both that you are welcome here and that it sounds like you could use some real-time assistance in coping. I hope you take ElJay's advice, reread pooka's post, and get someone involved to help you.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
There is no such things as precious space on the interweb. No one here would be happier if you chose to no longer participate at hatrack, but if you feel that not participating would decrease the stress in your life then good luck in all that you do.
I have taken many significant breaks from hatrack. Use the extra time to take care of yourself. ((( )))
Posted by Eowyn-sama (Member # 11096) on :
But before you take a break, let us know how you're doing, k? Even if you don't want to talk about anything too personal on the forums, we've all got e-mails.
I don't know what your religious preferences are so I hope you don't take offense at this, but you're in my prayers.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Eduardo -- everyone's treating this as a goodbye to Hatrack post but I'm frightened that you are saying goodbye to life. By all means take a break from Hatrack if it's what you want to do, and come back whenever you change your mind, but the space you are taking up on this planet is YOUR precious space and no one else could possibly occupy it as well.
And I, for one, read your posts because I find them worth reading, so that's as valued a member as you get to be on an Internet forum. Please check back in and let us know how you're doing.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I like you E.St.E.
Posted by Qaz (Member # 10298) on :
What Uprooted said.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Since I'm someone who doesn't post too often, you might not realize how much I enjoy reading your posts. I hope this is just a little break and that you'll come back soon.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
(Uprooted, I think ElJay and others picked up on the same thing, and that is why she offered to help him find "professional, real life help.")
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Yeah, I know I was taking the dense interpretation of others' posts but I'm all about saying some things straight up and out in the open. At any rate, at least Eduardo knows that there are a lot of people here who are concerned about him; I'm assuming that several of you emailed him as I did in case he doesn't read this.
ETA: Is anyone in contact w/ him IRL?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Another what Uprooted said. Take care of yourself, Eduardo.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Talk to us, Eduardo St. Elmo! There are plenty of us who really care. Email or aim me. I want to know what's going on in your life.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Just adding my name to the list. Leave if that is what you think is best, but I don't think anybody here agrees that you leaving is good for hatrack.
I've always enjoyed your presence in the forums. Please reconsider.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
I have a condition. I won't go into the details of it, but it's slowly wrecking me. I spend far too much energy in creating the illusion that I'm doing fine.
After considering every possible solution, I have come to the conclusion that there really is only one way out. In stead of waiting for the inevitable ultimate breakdown, I will take matters into my own hands and choose my own path.
Good folks of Hatrack don't worry about me, it'll do neither you nor me any good. I thank you for your concern about me. I care about you as well, which is why it is best that I leave.
Estelmo
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Unfortunately for you, just as we can't force you to stick around you can't force us not to worry about you. You are a part of this community. I care about you, I enjoy reading your posts, and I will notice if you're not here.
You don't need to create illusions. Don't waste the energy. Just be who you are. Spend that energy getting whatever help is available to you for your condition, to make the rest of your life as fulfilling as possible.
Everyone is slowly dying. The ultimate breakdown is inevitable for all of us, just some people have a better idea of when it's coming than others. That doesn't mean life is futile.
Saying that it is best if you leave is a lie to make yourself feel better. We don't want you to leave. Stay with us, Estelmo. Let us help you if we can, and support you where we cannot. Please.
Liza
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You're in Holland, right? Have you called a crisis hotline? I found this number: 0900-0767. Please call and talk to them before you do anything else.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Eduardo, do you have anyone in "real life" that you're talking to about this? Because I think you need to. It can be easier to say things to semi-strangers on the internet, but if you really are thinking about harming yourself you owe it to your friends and family to give them a chance to help you first.
There are people here who would help you if we could, and will if there's something we can do from miles and miles away, but you need someone that's right in the same town with you. Please talk to someone. Right away.
Edit: or what ElJay said.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
This sounds overwhelming for you and must be very frightening. I think it would be so good if you had someone to be with there right now. Can we help you find somebody or talk to somebody for you?
You can keep talking to us here if you don't have someone right there to talk with. I don't know that we can say anything to make it better, but we can listen and let you know we hear what you are saying.
---
Edited to add: ElJay, thanks for tracking down the crisis hotline number. Estelmo, that is another place where people will listen, and hotlines like this are staffed by people who are particularly trained to be helpful. They are good at listening, too, and most lines like this are ready for calls at any time of the day or night.
[ November 02, 2007, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I don't know what to say. Except this -- I would be very disappointed and dismayed if you ended your own life.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Hmm. Eduardo, I've lived through a lot of broken thinking over the years. Fortunately for me, I'm a woman and I eventually realized those feelings generally had biological roots. I assume you're a man, so I don't know how stuff like that works for men. But the seasonal components can affect us alike. We aren't really designed to keep working at the same level year round.
There are non-permanent reasons that I feel the way I have -- and even if I don't change them -- knowing why they are happening, rather than thinking it is an indelible stain in my soul, helps me.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
You are 13, right, or has your 14th birthday already come? I remember being so surprised to read that you love Led Zeppelin's music. I'd love to hear the story of how you found them and what drew you to them.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Wait, Eduardo, you're in your teens? From your general tone I'd just assumed that you were in your late 20s.
Count me among the many who value your presence here. You've made yourself part of this community, and we care about you. And if you're anything like me, you've come to know and care about the people here, too. In the past I've turned to the forums when I was going through massive and depressing changes in my personal life, and was overwhelmed by both how much people cared, and how good their advice was. The advice you're getting now, from Tatiana, from ElJay, from dkw, from CT--it's good. It's worth following. And there's no risk in doing so.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Noemon: your assumption is correct. Physically I am 26 years of age.
CT: the Estelmo - and as an extension Eduardo - character is indeed roughly 14 years old. As to how I got into Led Zeppelin; I was introduced to the music by a friend who was of the opinion that I needed to expand my horizons beyond the 3 or 4 bands that I idolised back then.
EIJay: I have not called any crisis hotline, and it's extremely doubtful that I will do so, since I do not label my situation as a crisis. I know we all grow old and die, I am not afraid of death. On the contrary, I am far more afraid of life.
Existing in a state of perpetual anxiety isn't a good way to spend your life, as I am sure most of you will agree. The fear is fed by shame and guilt, which are always at the background, ready to spring forth at a moments notice.
I realise that in my previous post I did nothing to dispell the fears that I might end my own life. Be assured this is not my intention. Basically I don't have the drive to do anything of the kind. But I do have to kill this Estelmo character that has poisoned my life for so long. If I do not, then at some point in the future it will become totally impossible to get rid of him.
So, from this moment on I will no longer use that name, except to post in this thread, if some of you are still unclear on what the heck I'm talking about. My intention is to return to Hatrack some time in the future - once I have dealt with this issue - in a different guise.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I'm glad you aren't contemplating a physical end, Eduardo. I hope you come back when you're ready, different guise or no!
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
quote:So, from this moment on I will no longer use that name, except to post in this thread, if some of you are still unclear on what the heck I'm talking about. My intention is to return to Hatrack some time in the future - once I have dealt with this issue - in a different guise.
Actually, this sounds okay. I'm very glad to hear that you are not contemplating ending your meatspace life as well as you Hatrack one.
I did that once - dropped katharina completely and posted as someone else for about six months. I didn't tell anyone before I did it, and I didn't do it in order to get attention or fool anyone - I just couldn't stand being katharina there for a bit.
The anxiety talk is worrying - I think it would be a good idea to get some help, still. I'm a huge fan of asking for help. It means you are part of the (human) community, and getting help means you'll be in the shape you need to be to give help later.
[ November 02, 2007, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Javert Hugo ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Well, I'm really glad to hear that you're not talking about killing yourself. I have to admit that I don't quite know what to make of the rest of your post, though. I haven't been around as much lately as I have in the past, so it's quite possible that I've missed quite a bit.
It still sounds to me, though, that you would really benefit from speaking to a skilled therapist about the stuff that's going on with you. I hope that you'll do so.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
kat, I think you've missing a "not" in there.
--
Eduardo, I'm glad that you are not planning on hurting yourself, as that really is what it sounded like to me. I do still think you should consider therapy. Whatever way you choose, I wish you peace, and hope to see you back here when you're comfortable with it.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Wow, yeah - oops.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
That does ease my mind. If you have a "character" whose persona you don't want to use anymore, I don't think anyone would object to you not using it. That is far different than stopping the breath and heartbeat of a 3-dimensional real-world person.
Anxiety is highly, highly treatable condition. It does make life quite difficult in ways I don't think someone without it could fully understand. I hope you have a professional to talk with to seek out ways of dealing with it that don't leave you in fear and dread. Believe me, they are available. If you don't have someone like this to go to, the crisis line could help you identify it (and this is an appropriate use of crisis services).
I am certain beyond any doubt that you are welcome to come back to Hatrack and post under a different name. Sometimes a fresh start is really great.
At this point I'm going to back out and just send you my best hopes that things get better. I'm terribly confused about what the best responses would be to help you any further, especially given that the information available here about you is subject to such highly variable interpretability. That's okay -- it doesn't mean you are a bad person or unwelcome, it just means that figuring out what to do or say and still avoid making it worse may go beyond the scope of many people here, including me.
I very much want you to know that it would be inaccurate to interpret silence on this thread or a lack of further responses -- from any one of us -- as necessarily anything more than some confusion and desire not to make things worse. You are presenting a confusing picture, but the pain does come through in what you write -- this tells me that probably the best person to be involved is someone especially trained to deal with such confusing and delicate situations.
I'll keep reading the thread, but I probably won't directly respond to anything you write as your "Eduardo St. Elmo" character, other than to note again that website for resources if it seems to have gotten lost on the page. Again, that pulling back is not from shock or anger, but from wanting very much to not exacerbate the situation.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: Wow, yeah - oops.
Closer. Read it again really slow this time. Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
*laugh*
That would have worked in Latin. Clearly I cannot write in more than one language at a time.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I still don't know what to say. Except this -- I'm relieved to know that you are not intending to end your own life.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I'm still kind of worried. Take care of yourself.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Thanks for posting here to clarify a bit. Always know that you are welcome back as Eduardo St. Elmo if you choose to so post, or under whatever new name you wish to use to give yourself a fresh start. I'm not sure how your online persona is poisoning your life, but you of course know what you mean. Like CT said, it's a little confusing.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Day to day existence really is harder for some people than it is for others. And I wish you'd listen to those of us who say that therapy really can help with the despair and negative feelings. The people who are saying that are not just using it as a throwaway line because they don't know what else to say. Many of us have been there, done that, and found it helpful. Seriously. As in, we have new understanding and skills to help counter all the negative stuff.
Wishing you all the best, Eduardo.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Eduardo, would you tell us more about your condition (either privately or here on the thread)? What is it? Have you been to doctors yet to try and treat it? Is it really an inevitable decline or do you just need help to get through the maze of insurance and doctors and get real treatment? People here can help. We have a lot of age and experience and contacts and, yes, real world power, scattered between us. Please call on us for help. There's no way for you to access our help unless you ask. Will you?
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
eduardo, you're in my thoughts. Please take some of the good advice given here.
Posted by Simptumz (Member # 11159) on :
<Removed spam post and link. --PJ>
[ November 04, 2007, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Whistled... because that link's either spam or a bad joke.
--j_k
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Thanks for the whistle and the note, j_k.
It's such a shame Papa Janitor has to deal with this when his young son just got home from major surgery on both legs. He has better things to do with his time. Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
It shouldn't take too much of his time...Just delete that entire post...Honestly that is one of the most disgusting posts I've ever seen.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
That goes beyond your typical Spam. I'd go so far as to say that is spoiled spam. It's crazy how ridiculous this type of thing is getting.
Posted by Simptumz (Member # 11159) on :
<Removed post. --PJ>
[ November 04, 2007, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Troll posts rarely do have anything to do with anything. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Wow. Look at what I miss when I'm off writing.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Thank you for taking the time to reassure us. And good luck to you- whenever, and in whatever guise, you might return.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Darn, I wished I hadn't missed his second post, though. It's rare spammers actually post a second time...
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The second post wasn't spam. It was just garbage. Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
It was more Vietnam reminiscing.
Posted by Simptumz (Member # 11159) on :
Give me time I will come up with another good rant to post.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: It was more Vietnam reminiscing.
I highly doubt this was an actual memory.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
la belle indifference, venti-sized
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simptumz: Give me time I will come up with another good rant to post.
No, I'm afraid you've worn out your welcome. Don't let the logic gate hit you on your way out.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
quote:originally posted by Uprooted I'm not sure how your online persona is poisoning your life, but you of course know what you mean.
Yes I can see how that might be confusing. Perhaps it becomes a bit clearer when you think of Estelmo as more than my online persona. I have always had trouble expressing myself and have a tendency to retreat into my own little world. There is a real possibility that I'm mildly autistic, though this has never been diagnosed. Circa 14 years ago, a series of events led me to radically change the way I viewed the world. The old way of viewing things wasn't working anymore, my mind was going round in circles. The difficulty lies in the fact that at that time I wasn't able to consciously define the point where my thoughts went wrong. So, aided by the negative emotions that had become a constant, I denounced it entirely. Basically I decided that I was wrong... somehow. Though it may seems strange to you, this freed my mind from immediate confusion. With this new perspective came a new character, to which I later on attached the name Estelmo. (I took the name from a LOTR appendix - because the description fitted with my sense of utter loneliness) Following my conclusion that I was wrong, I decided that I should keep out of the way of people as much as possible, so as not to annoy/hurt them with my wrongness. At the same time I knew I had to keep up appearances, while I tried to figure out what exactly the flaw was. My hope was that if found out what was wrong, that I could also find a solution. These decisions were made in a very short space of time, and then retreated to my subconscious mind, since nobody can live with the conscious attitude that they are wrong.
FFWD 14 years...
By reading, listening, watching I increased the amount of information with which I could undertake to make sense of the world. In all this time I have tried to label myself with all types of flaws I could think of. But by thinking about myself as lazy or crazy I was using very broad descriptions that never seemed to totally explain what ailed me. In the mean time, I was starting to notice more and more symptoms of my ailment. Especially the anxiety (which increases when I'm near other people - even people I have known for years) became easier to notice. I have been unable to let people into my life beyond a certain point and I spend a lot of time alone. Even my parents have only a partial understanding of what my life is like. I do not wish to burden anyone with my troubles, so I tend to just not talk about them.
Now I have to find a way to ditch this worldview, which is made difficult by the fact that I haven't found anything to replace it besides the one that I rejected so long ago. Basically I must come to terms with the deeply ironic fact that the only thing wrong with me is my conviction that there is something wrong with me.
This is going to take some time.
Some of these things I have mentioned here before in other threads. I realise that this might still be confusing to some (if not all) of you, but just writing all this down is a step in the right direction.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: it really, really sounds like you need to get some professional, real life help.
ElJay said it before, and it sounds like it is still good advice. Good luck.
Posted by Eowyn-sama (Member # 11096) on :
That actually does a good job of explaining some of what you're going through, I think. Keep in mind though, that if your own mind is the root of the problem (even if the only problem is that you very strongly believe there is a problem) then it's doubtful that you'll find the entire solution within your own mind. That's the tricky thing about minds--they'll lead you in circles and spirals and you need other people to talk to as a type of grounding or anchor.
Don't be afraid to 'burden' your family and friends (which includes us here at hatrack) with your problems--for anyone who cares about you the real burden is knowing something is wrong and not being able to help. I've had to watch from the sidelines as friends tried to 'save' me from their problems, and it was way more painful that anything they could have told me.
I'm really glad to hear that you're working through this, even though you realize it's going to be a long road. Keep talking to us, and if you haven't already, start talking to your family, they're there to help.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Ah, there's no way that you, yourself, are a wrongness. Whatever is wrong, wherever the mistake could be, it's not that you are you. You have permission and even are commanded, eternally, to be you. That is an axiom.
I hope it's helpful to you. I don't know what you're experiencing. Nobody knows that but you. But I do know some things about life, death, and selves, from my own struggles with these questions over almost 50 years now.
Do reach out to others.
Do continue to hope, to learn, and to grow and change.
If you're tempted to think that nothing matters, that none of this matters at all, then realize that you're wrong about that. It all matters very much indeed. It's the most important thing in the universe, in fact.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
I can't say anything better than what the last three posters said. I'm encouraged to see you still engaging in this thread.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:You have permission and even are commanded, eternally, to be you.
Exactly. No matter who you are, how you act, how you think, or what you look like, you were made that way by your genes, (or by God depending on what you believe) and you are just as valid a person as any ohter human on the planet. We're all made the exact same way and all the ideas you might have about heirarchies or who's better than who are just human constructions that have no actual meaning.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Okay, I can totally agree with the above posts on a rational basis. But having spent the last 13 odd years trying to not to be me, there's a lot of emotional residu that I have to get rid of.
So, a little update on my daily comings and goings:
Having lived (practically) alone for the last years, I will soon be getting a new roommate. I think this might be a good thing for me, as I will have to learn to live with another person in the same space. I have had several roommates before this and most of the time I got along with them just fine - with one exception. Yesterday my new roommate came over with his girlfriend to paint the room and because I'm not that handy with a brush I made offered to make them dinner. We had a pleasant meal and - more importantly - a pleasent conversation. This bodes well for the future, me thinks. Prior to his arrival I thought it a good idea to spend some time cleaning up my house. I mentioned in a previous thread that my home is kind of messy, but this is slowly improving. I've found that the best tactic for this is to clean in phases (or stages if you will). Once I can maintain a certain level of cleanliness for a couple of weeks, it's time for the next stage and so on... By now, I've actually made it to where I can see surface area, which used to be continually covered with all sorts of stuff.
Thank you all for your kind words and advice. Reading these posts once in a while makes it easier to deal with all the bad things.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
You seem a lot more positive in your last post. I'm glad.
Good luck with the roommate.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I think a lot more people spend their lives trying not to be themselves than realize it.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Awesome! I hope it works out with the new roommate. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Thanks for the update, and I'm glad you're finding new ways to cope.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Happy Thanksgiving, to all of you who celebrate it.
I'll be spending the weekend with my family. My brother has recently moved and I still need to see his new house. And tonight I'll be going to a concert with my father, we're going to see Procol Harum. (Yeah, I know it's a bit dated...) If I find the time I might look up a former roommate, who lives in the same city as my brother.
Some general things concerning my 'condition': Like most people in life, I do have better and worse days. I am capable of having fun, but I find it really hard to share it with other people. Most days the best I can feel toward myself is indifference. These negative feelings never leave me, but on my better days it's easier to camouflage them.
EIJay: I have always had ways to cope, but now I'm looking for a way to cure...
"There's more to living than only surviving, maybe I'm not there but I'm still trying."
"You'll make it through, with another point of view" - Which is what I'm trying to accomplish.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Happy Thanksgiving to you Eduardo. I hope you had a nice day with your family.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Yeah, thanks for the update. Keep us in the loop. Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Happy Thanksgiving! I'm glad to hear things are going fairly well. Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
(Belated) Happy Thanksgiving to you, Eduardo. Keep well.
--j_k
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
So, another update then...
When I was visiting my parents I told them some things that I had kept secret from them for a long time. This eased my mind somewhat, but there are a lot more things that I need to tell them. I'm still gathering my courage for that confrontation.
I don't like talking about my problems, because to me it automatically feels like I'm whining. And I don't want to do that. So, in defiance of your advice I have been avoiding my friends more than usual of late. In one case I actually had a falling out with someone very dear to me. It was 'nobody's fault but mine'. I won't go into the details of it, but lets just say that I made an error in judgement and when the other party rightfully told me so, I acted like a little boy and said that it would probably be best if we broke off contact all together. This was nearly a month ago. We haven't spoken since, even though I do want to. Perhaps in the new year I will see if we can still be friends.
Contrary to what I stated in an earlier post I have posted once or twice outside of this thread. Unfortunately this doesn't mean that I'm all better. I still think that Estelmo (or that part of me) has to die before I can fully enjoy my life once more.
Now for some positive news: The concert was great, hearing good music always cheers me up (as I imagine is the case for many of you too). Most of the songs they played were relatively unknown to me, since the band played album tracks and newer songs instead of relying on the old hits. Since I only own their debut album, my familiarity with their work is somewhat limited. But this did not really matter, since even the lesser known songs were uplifting. And when they did play such crowd favourites as A Salty Dog, Homburg and Conquistador the audience response was great. Most of the people in the audience were my fathers age (50-something), but that was to be expected. The last song they played was their biggest hit - and thus obligatorily part of the set-list - A Whiter Shade Of Pale, for which everybody in the audience rose from their seats and sang along (although in most cases they only knew the words to the chorus).
Two nights ago, it was 'Sinterklaas' over here. I didn't celebrate it with my parents this year, but my mother did give me some new kitchen utensils. Very useful gifts, I guess I have learn how to cook now... I spent 'pakjesavond' with some acquaintances, who gave a really great present; a 2-disc compilation by their own hand to serve as an introduction to the Canterbury scene. Seeing as they just bought a new DVD-player I thought it prudent to give them a few discs to start off their collection. They were well received.
My new roommate still hasn't moved in, but he has constructed the skeleton of his bed. It is a raised model, so he can optimize the limited space in the room. I'm guessing he'll be moving in next weekend.
And last but not least: a short anecdote from the office floor. I'm currently employed in a customer relations position for an international company. This morning I answered a incoming call on my co-workers line (she had stepped out for a few minutes). The call came from Shanghai, but since I mostly deal with Russia I wasn't privy to the information the client wished to have. I jotted down his number so my co-worker could return his call. Returning to my desk say 20 minutes later, I found the note with the phone number on my desk with an added message from my co-worker. It simply said that I should call the number. I asked her why, but she wouldn't explain it to me and told me to just go ahead and make the call. I keyed in the number and then found myself listening to something which was definitely not our client. Some of our international clients can be hard to follow when talking on the phone, but this time I was hearing only screams and sighs... By transposing the two numbers that make up the international code I had somehow gotten connected to a phone sex line. Needless to say that we had some good laughs about this.
Well... until next time.
***edited to remove some minor errors***
[ December 09, 2007, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Eduardo St. Elmo ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You may have gotten very lucky. In many office climates, accidentally causing a female coworker to dial a phone sex line would result in disciplinary action.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Gelukkig Sinterklassdag. Does your family do something for Kerstdag as well?
Glad to hear things are on a bit more of an even keel. As to your issue with your friend, just say "I'm sorry; I was wrong to react the way I did" and move on. If someone cares for you, and you care for them, you should do what you can to set it right, IMO.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You may have gotten very lucky.
Ummm . . . pun intended?
Eduardo, I didn't see your last few posts until today. Good to hear from you.
And I agree with Senoj about your estranged friend. We're all jerks to people we like sometimes. If he's a friend worth having, he'll probably accept a "sorry" and just let the matter drop. It becomes easier and less humiliating to say with practice.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
This being a family forum I was kinda worried that the my anecdote was a bit too racey, and this is the main reason for finding a computer today and checking in. But since it caused no huge outrage, I guess I can stop kicking myself in the head over it.
I am aware that the incident could have had serious repercussions, but fortunately the work environment at my current job isn't too strict. I once worked for Samsung, where the office mentality was very strict indeed (dresscode and all...), only when the direct boss was away on a business-trip would everyone loosen up a bit. At my current job it's not a problem if I show up wearing my Blind Guardian shirt complemented by a whole weeks' worth of unkempt facial hair. Not that I take that much liberty on a daily basis... Anyway, since I'm a temp, they could throw me out without any notice, if they really wanted to.
Regarding the situation with my friend it might be useful to know that this is in fact 'about a girl'. This makes the matter far more complicated than one can easily glean from my last post. I will try to re-establish contact, but I have to figure out how to do it exactly. Mustn't upset her again.
SenojRetep: We do not usually do very special things for Christmas. My mother gets out all the same old boring records (Bing Crosby and such), and we tend to have an elaborate meal that tends to take up the best part of the afternoon. This year it remains to be seen whether my brother will join us, but I do plan to visit my parents for Christmas. And probably sit out New Year's Eve with some other members of my family.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
As far as dropping a burdensome persona, I think I can relate. I played an MMORPG for 3.5 years and just quit about a month ago (in a way that makes it very very difficult to return). I feel so liberated.
As far as the real-life anxiety and depression, all I can say is take one breath after another, then another. If things are really that bad that you need an escape, then delight in knowing that any change is likely to be a good one. I'm sure that anyone dealing in psychology would label me with some form of depression within 2.4 seconds of me opening my mouth. I view it as just a bad mix of Boredom+Cynicism.
My advice for the situation is to calculate, and make a noticeable change in your life and see if things are better from there. If it's still not where you want it, then repeat as often as necessary. (of course, maybe that's what this is all about with taking a break from that name. If so, then right on!)
Edit: Note to self, look for a second page before posting. Some of this may still apply though, so I won't delete it. Just know that it's out of context.
[ December 09, 2007, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: sylvrdragon ]
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Firstly, I'd like to wish all of you a Happy New Year. May good things come to you in 2008.
I'm sure that 2008 is going to be a better year for me personally. This is mostly based in the fact that I can't imagine it being any worse than last year. And I have a pretty vivid imagination, if I do say so myself...
While imagination is a wonderful thing to have, it can also become something of a hindrance in one's life. For too long I have let myself be blind to reality, which has by now made it hard to function in day-to-day life. It has also eliminated my ability to improve my circumstances. In stead of facing my problems, I have been running from them, for anything seems to be easier to accept than the plain and simple truth.
No more of that...
I am a drug-addicted college drop-out, who has trouble keeping a steady job.
This is a very limited description, but I can not deny any part of it. Naturally, I'm trying to improve myself, and I hope that by the end of 2008 things will be better.
My plan of action includes posting a monthly update in this thread, which is supposed to show my progress.
For now I'll just tell you how I spent the last days of 2007.
For Christmas, I went home to visit my parents. I arrived there at about 7 PM on the 24th. The next day we sat down to a nice Christmas dinner and were even unexpectedly joined by my younger sibling. Dinner itself wassn't anything really fancy, we just took several hours to prepare preposterously petite pieces of meat... fortunately there were also a lot of side dishes. On the 26th (which is knowm as 2nd Christmasday over here - [loose translation]) we made our way over to my mother's parents. She has been going there fairly often of late, since my grandfather has been ill. It is unlikely that he will recover, so she thought it important that we accompanied her. I'm glad I went to see him and had a chance to talk to him, even though at first I didn't know quite what to say. My brother went home that evening, because he had to work the next morning. He currently works at Subway's, but doesn't like it much and is looking for a serious job in his own field.
The next day was very calm. I spent some of my birthday money on a 'new' videogame. Had to get back home on the 28th, since I had to work on Saturday.
New Year's Eve - I spent the end of the year alone; watching a bit of TV, but since there wasn't anything good on, I decided to grab the book I was reading. The last four hours of the year were spent with the latter half of Children Of The Mind.
Some stats: *In 2007 I managed there were only 13 days that I didn't smoke. (it should be possible to improve on this, don't you think?) *To the best of my recollection I only read about 20 new books in 2007 (not counting re-reads) - which is far too little, IMO. I'm setting the goal for 36 in this new year.
Read in December: * The Fountainhead - Ayn Rand * Archform: Beauty - L.E. Modesitt Jr. * Children Of The Mind - Orson Scott Card
Besides reading more, I intend to spend less time watching TV in 2008. I can't begin to estimate the amount of time I've wasted in front of the television, time that could have been put to better use.
*** Next update at February 2nd ***
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
I just read Archform: Beauty this past week! What did you think of the various ways the characters described beauty? (For those who don't know, the book is narrated by five characters ~ a music professor for whom beauty is "non-rezzed" music, or music without emotion-control enhancements; a policeman for whom beauty is finding an elegant solution to a perplexing criminal problem; a news background researcher for whom beauty is the words that get lost behind the media images; a senator who sees beauty in how well power is shared and transferred; and a crime boss who sees beauty in having a "good" family.)
Eduardo, where do you see beauty? In Children of the Mind, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concepts_in_the_Ender%27s_Game_series#Philotic_Web] Wikipedia article on concepts in Children of the Mind [/url] people make philotic connections with others, strenghthening their bonds with each other. I have a feeling that you find some beauty in the concepts that OSC puts into his books, else you would not have been involved with this forum for as long as you have. You say that you need to abandon the estelmo construct to move on to become the real you. Having read these two books recently (I don't know the Ayn Rand one), can you, or would you even want to, use those philosphies to help get you through the rough times?
I hope all of this makes some kind of sense, though I have a feeling I may be getting way too philosophical or metaphysical here. I want to come back to the first question I asked, What is beauty to you? And to add to it, how can you bring more of that beauty into your life so that you can become more truly "you." ~Sala (edit - well, this is a little better, at least now the url is linked with an underline!) )
[ January 02, 2008, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Sala ]
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sala: (edit - can't figure out how to get the URL code to work right )
You're missing a ] to the immediate right of the url.
Eduardo, we haven't interacted much, but I've been following this thread, and I'm glad to see you taking a positive approach! Do keep us posted, and don't be afraid to update more than once monthly, if you feel you need us to support you.
Best of luck!
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Well, it's been a slow day at work, so I'll take the time to try and formulate an answer to your question, Sala.
I see beauty in lots of things, but most of the time I can not find the words to express it.
Staying within the framework of Modesitt's book; I'm not unlike the Cornett, Chiang and even Parsfal characters. (the teacher, cop and journalist) Though I am unable to break down songs into their components, having no knowledge of tones and keys and such, I find beauty in music. and it makes me wonder I started trying to figure out why I liked certain songs, bands, singers, instruments. And for the most part I understand the reasons behind my preferences. But in doing so I also discovered that I just really like to solve puzzles. I like examining the parts, trying to ascertain their relevance to the question at hand, seeing how they fit and finally coming up with a solution/explanation. This process usually goes on subconsciously, but over time I have become more able to recognize it in the things that I do. Besides music, I also love books. I have done so from the time that I could read. I am perpetually intrigued by the way letters gather meaning once you arrange them a certain way. And then the knowledge that this meaning is not always rigid. Words can have more than one meaning [paraphrasing the same song there... ], depending on their context or intonation. Some people say that words should only have one meaning - or else become meaningless. If this were so, then language would not be as interesting as it is.
Now for the more philosophical part of your post, Sala. I do find comfort in the ideas that OSC puts in his works, but his is not the only 'worldview' I like. The philotic web is a great way to express human connections, and the philote itself is a very neat description of 'the prime particle'. I do believe in such a thing, though I do not necessarily believe it has to be a particle. It could just be a frequency. But, and correct me if I'm wrong here (having only seen the movie), in The Golden Compass there is a similar thing called Dust. To me it represents the same idea as the philotes - The interrelation of everything. Emotionally I am however more drawn by Nakor's description; Stuff. Philotes, Dust and Stuff are (at least to me) partially interchangable concepts that that hold the promise that at one time in the future mankind will realise that we are all the same and there is no need for fighting. Which is something I long for, though I am not thick enough to think it will happen in my lifetime.
I realise that if I continue this post will meander into obscurities. So time to go home now and make something to eat...
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Good for you, Eduardo. I look forward to your February accountability post.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Me, too.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
((((Eduardo))))
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I'm really glad you've been keeping us posted Eduardo.
I wish you all the best at the beginning of this new year.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
"Rise and shine, campers... and don't forget your booties, 'cause it's cold out there today [...] That's right, it's Groundhog Day!"
Well, to be fair the weather was only slightly chilly, so I wasn't forced to wear boots.
Sadly, I must report that the first month of this year was just a continuance of the last two years. I didn't get up to very much at all. Most of my time was spent watching TV. Re-runs of re-runs... I did not even finish a book in January. I think that my results in that area in December of last year were aided somewhat by having a Christmas holiday and therefor more free time to spend reading. Anyway, I am currently plodding my way through a rather hefty volume of Sci-Fi material, and barring any freak incidents I should definitely be able to finish it before the end of this month.
My new roommate has finally moved in, two weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure that having someone around will be a positive influence on me. At the very least it's an incentive to keep the house tidy.
My problem is that I really do not seem to want anything anymore. Almost everything I do has become 'filler', just something to while away the hours until I can go to sleep. Of course I can not claim to be totally devoid of desire, for that would mean I would have nothing to live for. But I can't deny that my condition is getting worse. It is getting harder to get excited about anything; even the things that up until now have brought me great joy and the energy to continue (few as they may have been) are slowly losing their appeal.
On the other side, I have been noticing improvements in a number of area's of my life. Right now, they do not add up to much change in my daily routine and it is unlikely that anybody else would notice such scant improvements, but I take heart from the fact that not everything is going downhill.
I have of course tried to break my daily routine of couch-slouching, tube-watching and dope-smoking before, but for some reason I find it hard to even think of other things to do. This is probably because of the fact that is has been my natural state for so long (more than a decade). My goals for this month are doing pretty much anything besides smoking, slouching and watching TV. I can't say what is I will be doing, as long as I get out of this repetitive pattern. Perhaps getting my new PC in full gear might be a useful way of spending my time. My previous attempts to break the cycle most likely failed due to the fact that I tried breaking the habits I have formed without having a well-defined idea of what to do in their stead.
So this time I decided on a different approach; one last night of waster behaviour. I spent the whole of last night watching 2/3 of the third season of House - and then followed that by watching "Groundhog Day" at about 8.30 this morning...before I had to go to work. Fortunately, my Saturday's are spent delivering mail. I can't begin to explain exactly why [I do have a good idea, but it would just take too long] but for some reason when I don the mailman's uniform I feel better about myself. I guess it's because I can hide my own identity behind that of 'just a postal worker'. Anyway, it's 15:20 PM right now, and I'm beginning to feel a satisfactory sense of drowsiness. Time for a meal and then a long night's sleep, which will (hopefully) see me rising on Sunday with a refreshed belief in my own abilities.
Next update will be March 1st. It is my intention to have it be more upbeat. And just in case I did not make it clear before, I am deeply grateful that this place exists; it has brought me closer to feeling at home than anything else in over fifteen years.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Perhaps if you just stopped buying pot it would be easier for you to stop smoking it...?
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Maybe you should get laid?
Posted by Leafygreen (Member # 11015) on :
Is there a term for goals that are negative rather than positive? "Not do this" instead of "do this" kind of goals, I mean. I think they are harder to keep. Goals like, "every time I want to smoke I will eat some grapefruit instead" work much better for me.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
TD: Yeah... good idea. I'm astounded by the brilliance of its simplicity. Of course, I have tried this in the past and the practical execution is harder than one might think. As long as I think I need to smoke, I will probably keep on doing it. On the plus side, recently there have been some changes in my way of thinking that will eventually enable me to quit.
Tara:
[ March 03, 2008, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Eduardo St. Elmo ]
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
My monthly update... 24 hours late...
I don't have really good excuse either. Except to say that I initially thought I had to work yesterday, leaving me no chance to write a summary of the shortest month.
Read in February: The Reality Dysfunction - Peter F. Hamilton And Then There Were None - Agatha Christie
Considering the fact that I wanted to read 36 books this year, I'll have to up the average somewhat...only ten months left after all. So I'll have to read 3,4 books each month.
And now for this month's theme song: "Almost Cut My Hair"
[ April 01, 2008, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Eduardo St. Elmo ]
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
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