This is topic You have got to read this article in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
It's about reading faces, and lies, and...it's fascinating. Here it is

Anybody got any thoughts, or experiences?
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
That's a good article. I've seen other stuff on Dr. Ekman, but this article covers the subject well.

Using microexpressions to tell what people are really thinking (especially if they are lying) is slowly percolating through society. My brother mentioned microexpressions yesterday on a phone call--he was talking about how he tried to use them as a supervisor.

I'm not very good at it. I just took a quiz on microexpressions and got around 50-60%, and that was after repeating the expressions multiple times before guessing. http://www.cio.com/article/facial-expressions-test

The quiz is based on "The Micro Expression Training Tool" developed by Dr. Ekman. That goes for $50 at Ekman's website. Maybe I can coax my brother into buying it and I'll borrow it.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
I actually was pretty good at that test. I noticed that I focused mostly on the mouth, then the nose, then the eyes. Funny since the eyes are supposed to be "windows to the soul."
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
The mouth and eyes, sure. But the nose? I usually only notice the nose when it does that *crinkle in disgust* thing. Maybe that's why I test poorly--"the nose is the transom to the soul."
 

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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
I got 7 of 10 on the first try. One of them I had to literally click on every emotion in turn to get right.
 

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Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
That is crazy. I don't do well with facial expressions and emotions so I don't have anything really to add. But I liked the bit at the end about why most people probably don't bother to learn the skill. We don't want to know what people are really thinking.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Very cool, steven. I'd read about this before in the context of customs agents, but this was a much more in depth piece than I had seen then.

Some online quizzes:
Facial Expressions Test (based on Paul Ekman's work on microexpressions) [edited to add: same as Morbo's link above]
The Ability to Read Emotions(Eyes) Test from OkCupid
Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test (Revised, Adult) -- another eyes test; has some of the same pictures

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10 of 10 for me -- I usually do well on these
 

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Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
 
I got around 5 on the first try and the other 5 on the second. I didn't consciously try to focus on any one part of the face, but when the pictures flashed I focused most on the mouth.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
Now, see, I'm horrible at the eye tests (I've done them before.) But the flashes I got really well, focusing on the mouth.

I think that says less about the science and more about me...
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
(I am also uncomfortable making continuous eye contact, always have been. I get freaked out if someone continually focuses on my eyes, and when talking to people look away from their eyes frequently or focus on other parts of their faces.)
 

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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
I just spent almost $100 on amazon on books about this. I bought 1 Ekman, 1 by Vrij, and one about the Reid technique. I have a friend who's a cop who recommends the Reid technique. This is going to be fun. For all my brains, I'm totally awful at detecting liars. Let's see if that will change.
 

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Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
 
Good links Claudia. I only got 60% on the OkCupid test but somehow managed to pull off 33/36 on the questionwriter.com one!
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
I did 60% on OkCupid and 34/36 on the other.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
steven, if I were you I'd get Ekman's program on CD that I mentioned. It will probably help more than books because it's interactive.
 

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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
The CD didn't get a good review on Amazon. Otherwise, I'd have snapped it up.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Ah, I see.
This is fascinating. For most of my life I've had a vague idea that people can "smile with their eyes", and when they don't it's a sure way to spot a phony. I didn't know there was research into it from the 19th century.

quote:

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Perhaps the most famous involuntary expression is what Ekman has dubbed the Duchenne smile, in honor of the nineteenth-century French neurologist Guillaume Duchenne, who first attempted to document the workings of the muscles of the face with the camera. If I ask you to smile, you' ll flex your zygomatic major. By contrast, if you smile spontaneously, in the presence of genuine emotion, you' ll not only flex your zygomatic but also tighten the orbicularis oculi, pars orbitalis, which is the muscle that encircles the eye. It is almost impossible to tighten the orbicularis oculi, pars lateralis, on demand, and it is equally difficult to stop it from tightening when we smile at something genuinely pleasurable. This kind of smile "does not obey the will," Duchenne wrote. "Its absence unmasks the false friend."

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quote:

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Originally posted by steven:
60% on OKCupid. It said I scored 99% on "observation". WTF is that? Does anybody else have a result on that?

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quote:

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Originally posted by steven:
60% on OKCupid. It said I scored 99% on "observation". WTF is that? Does anybody else have a result on that?

29/36 on questionwriter. Interesting.

Threads, are you male or female?

I'm wondering if all these have a strong gender component like the OKCupid one does.

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I'm male.
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
60% and 29/36. And now I have a headache.

--Mel
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
There's always jerks who claim they can "read bumps on heads" to determine character,
micro-expressions is just the latest in a long long long line of such frauds

[ November 04, 2007, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
See, I'm still going to investigate the issue, because I know you don't know shit about it, and you're just guessing and posturing based on your guess.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
"No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up."--Lily Tomlin

Thanks for keeping us plugged in, aspectre!
 

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Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
 
On this subject, I recommend the book Conquering Deception, by Jef Nance.


 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Thanks to somebody's response to a prior question at Google Answers, there is a whole compilation of related online tests:

quote:

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Hello Erspertus,

I have found several sites with facial expressions quizzes:

http://www.cio.com/archive/120104/faces.html

http://www.medicine.manchester.ac.uk/psychiatry/newmood/faces.asp

http://www.wwnorton.com/psychsci/activity/ch10_activity.htm#introduction

http://www.prosopagnosia.com/interactive/facexpressions1/index.asp

http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~wsun/sa/project/node15.html

http://www.rgbpost.com/he/mindreading/mainfeatures.asp

You need to register here (free) to take a facial recognition test:
http://www.emotionsworkshop.org/emotion_assessment/index.php

Here is an 8 face test.
http://www.cultsock.ndirect.co.uk/MUHome/cshtml/nvc/nvc3a.html


Other information on facial expressions
========================================
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,60232-2,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_next1

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/compvisn.htm

http://www.journalofvision.org/5/1/6/article.aspx

http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/expression/interpretations.html

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues04/jan04/readingfaces.html

This is an interesting facial test, based not on emotions, but country of origin.
http://alllooksame.com/

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quote:

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This is fascinating. For most of my life I've had a vague idea that people can "smile with their eyes", and when they don't it's a sure way to spot a phony. I didn't know there was research into it from the 19th century.

quote:

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Perhaps the most famous involuntary expression is what Ekman has dubbed the Duchenne smile, in honor of the nineteenth-century French neurologist Guillaume Duchenne, who first attempted to document the workings of the muscles of the face with the camera. If I ask you to smile, you' ll flex your zygomatic major. By contrast, if you smile spontaneously, in the presence of genuine emotion, you' ll not only flex your zygomatic but also tighten the orbicularis oculi, pars orbitalis, which is the muscle that encircles the eye. It is almost impossible to tighten the orbicularis oculi, pars lateralis, on demand, and it is equally difficult to stop it from tightening when we smile at something genuinely pleasurable. This kind of smile "does not obey the will," Duchenne wrote. "Its absence unmasks the false friend."

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quote:

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Originally posted by ElJay:
I can smile with my eyes on command. So people always think my fake smiles are genuine. I don't know that I could do it if I was really mad about something, but I certainly can do it when I'm bored or with someone I don't actually like. I think it's one of the reasons that strangers talk to me more than I'd like in public, because my "polite yes I acknowledge you now go away" smile looks a lot like a "Hi I'm a really nice person wanna be friends" smile.

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