This sounds *so* cool. You'd have to buy a *lot* of books to make the price worth it, though.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
I read about it here, and got a big "meh" out of it. It "can store up to 200" books"? I mean really, are we supposed to be impressed? There's probably nearly that much memory in my alarm clock. And the books arrive by wireless, and it takes "less than a minute" to get a book? OK, that's not too bad, but still, why can't you just load the files from your computer? And sending a book you already own will incur a ten cent charge? Huh. And 30 hours battery time isn't that good either (well, it beats my laptop, but still, with with a low-powered digital ink screen (whatever that is) I'd hoped they managed something a little better). Also, it's ugly, and expensive. I predict failure.
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
This thread will probably draw the right crowd for this question, so: what is the attraction for one of these devices?
I do admit that I have a book fetish. I love the physical object. It's a significant part of the reason why I love 3.5x5.5" Moleskine notebooks: they're exactly the right size, thickness and usability. For me, the physical object plays a role in my enjoyment of the book and story. Am I the only one that refuses to give that up?
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Well, it depends, can turn my copy of Songmaster into a Book of Mormon at the touch of a button? Call me devious, but I could think of an occassion or two when that might come in handy.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
I also like the feel of a physical book in my hands, but there's an attraction to be able to bring with you all your favourite books, or better yet your entire library, in a convenient package that can be brought forth at any time.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'd be interested in having one of these, but $400 is more than I perceive it to be worth, especially given the thing's apparently tiny memory capacity and the fact that I'd have to pay to read content that is available online for free (blogs, wikipedia, and so forth).
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tristan: I also like the feel of a physical book in my hands, but there's an attraction to be able to bring with you all your favourite books, or better yet your entire library, in a convenient package that can be brought forth at any time.
I can see how this would be most handy for any situation where having a large amount of reference material available is useful. But having your entire pleasurable reading library available in a single device doesn't seem nearly as useful.
I don't mean to be a curmudgeon on the issue; I'm honestly confused. The iPod makes sense because music can both be taken in small, individual bites as well as a whole. But the same can't be said for novels, short stories, etc.
[ November 19, 2007, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Lime ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Re: the battery life, I just heard Bezos say in an interview that, with the wireless turned off, the thing should take a week of usage, easy.
Re: loading from your PC, I agree it should be possible, but the reason to do otherwise is so you don't have to care about a PC to use the Kindle, similarly to how you don't care about your PC when you want to read a book/get a new book/whatever.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Noemon: wikipedia reading seems to be free. Blogs aren't free, but you also aren't paying for the wireless (at least, not directly), and that can get pretty costly on cellular plans.
They've nearly got me. The price is a little high, but not too hard to meet with a little saving. My sticking point is actually the book selection/prices. They don't have quite the author repertoires I'd like to see at the prices I'd like to see, but they're close. I can tell they're going in the right direction, though, because they do have a lot of stuff available for a quarter (which looks to be mostly trashy). If they can bring classic sci-fi and fantasy stuff into the two to four dollar range, I'm sold.
Also, if they get the Financial Times as one of the newspapers, I'll go out and get one tomorrow.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
If I were still a student, and could get textbooks on a kindle, I would be completely sold. I *hated* lugging around textbooks in college, and $400 is a drop in the bucket of textbook costs overall (I imagine they'd still be expensive, though).
Plus it has a USB hookup, so you could connect it to a computer if you wanted.
I also love the feeling of reading a bound book, but I currently have 3 boxes of books (and more being taken care of at home) vying for space in my tiny apartment. The space-saving possibilities intrigue me. I also like the idea of using the electronic paper technology that doesn't actually look like a computer screen, which is a big downside to e-books for me.
The lack of built-in memory is pretty silly, considering the cost, but it does support SD memory cards. I wonder if it has a hard drive or if it's completely solid-state memory.
I'm usually one to wait out new technogadgets, so I'm not likely at all to buy one *right now*. But if the technology becomes more widespread and cheaper to disseminate (imagine if project gutenburg could release free kindle files), and the title selection gets better, I might consider it in a few years.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I can't wait until they perfect this technology. I have a whole house full of books and I want to give them away and have them instead in one small package the size of a paperback.
But it has to have a color display. Probably one of those new Qualcomm IMOD ones that is based on butterfly wings, and has low power requirements with no backlight required.
And not cost over $100 for the reader itself.
Books have to be around $2 each. $10 for brand new offerings (when the hardback is in stores for $25). $25 for college textbooks (as opposed to $100 or more for the actual book.)
It has to display all different types of files, and be freely connectible via USB port. Nothing proprietary is allowed.
Surfing the web for free, accessing wikipedia, google, etc. is also required. I think they should allow OED access as well. They could probably cut some kind of deal with the OED people.
A better keyboard that doesn't take up to a second for the letter to appear after it's typed.
Fully searchable text.
Eventually will be able to read everything in google books, wikiversity, etc. i.e. all printed matter in human history.
I can't WAIT until this is available. I predict it will be before 2012.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
It comes with a USB cable to sending files from your PC is possible (and necessary, for audio books). But it can only read text files, HTML, and its own native format, so you're limited to what you can load on there yourself.
It does cost 10 cents to upload your own ebook files or docs or pics to the service and have them sent back to your Kindle, but you can choose to have them e-mailed to your own account instead for free and transfer them yourself with the USB.
It is shaped and weighted to feel like a paperback book with the front coverm folded over. Bit lighter than a paperback, though.
Bezos has said their goal is to get every book, in or out of print, Kindle-ready.
For someone like me, who needs reading material within reach at all times and tends to burn through books quickly, an e-book reader is fantastic. But my Palm does that nicely, along with a lot of other functions. I'd attracted to the display and feel of the Kindle, but until the price drops down considerably I won't be buying one.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I would get something LIKE this, for sure. I'd want it to be more like "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", though. They could easily put multiple gigs of storage, rather than 256 MB. You could bring the price down by making it something like a low-functionality PDA--a portable screen for your PC that only shows text files (.pdf is too large, right?).
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
As has been said before, the unit has an sD card slot, meaning 2 gigs of storage is $20 away. I'd prefer the expandable functionality to an iPod-esque memory restriction.
Having never been into eBooks, though, I can't see myself ever purchasing or using this thing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've been hearing about this thing on my treehugger blogs for months, I didn't even realize it wasn't for sale yet. Of course the price is up there now, consider what price new technology and gadgets are released for these days, like digital cameras, game systems, cell phones, iPods and what not, etc. Considering the size and what it needs to do, I think the memory is just fine, but it's a new technology, so of course it's that expensive. I don't think they are expecting college kids to run out and buy one tomorrow. It'll start out with the most obvious users buying it at a premium, and as they sell the price will come down over time, just like with everything else. How many of you ran out to buy an LCD HDTV when they cost $10K for modest screen sizes?
I like this. It'd be cool if they could invent one with readable backlighting as an option so I could read at night too, but I wonder how hard it would be to either build on an attachment or just sell an attachment at the top to provide light for the screen, or even little LED lights on the side which are really efficient and very bright. That'd be a nice addition to the next model.
I've never been into ebooks either, but mostly because they hadn't really progressed very far, the selection of books was tiny, and they weren't user friendly. This thing looks extremely friendly with a great looking interface. It looks easy to use, the selection is already impressive considering this is just the launch, with many more titles to follow. Lots of people spent more than that on a PS3 for a tiny selection of games, and I like reading a heck of a lot more than gaming (yeah yeah I know all the bells and whistles a PS3 has, just let me have my comparison for the moment without beating me to death with it).
I think Tatiana's list of demands is respectable, but unattainable, at least not by her deadline. If the device worked by Wi-Fi, and there was an infrastructure for it, I could consider it a possibility. We have free Wi-Fi here in Oakland County because of a partnership between businesses, local government and the state that makes it economically beneficial to have it and still make it free for people. But this isn't free, this is high tech advanced cell phone technology that DOES cost Amazon money, they just don't charge YOU directly for it (well they DO, but up front, not montly), but that cost has to be recouped somewhere. I don't doubt that someday web access WILL be free for everyone, but in 5 years? You think in five years web browsing on an iPhone will be free? I want EVERYTHING on your list too, but it's asking a lot more than I think you realize. I think we'll see the price of the books themselves drop too over time (except bestsellers and new releases), remember it's still new. But text books for $25? Yeah right. Text books cost $100+ for a reason, and it's not because of the materials they are printed with. Amazon would have zero control over the price of that kind of book, though if they COULD do that, I imagine every Freshman in America would be ordering one immediately for a variety of advantages. I don't know about color displays or what not, I mean, the technology that lets them do THIS is rather newish isn't it? I have no idea what would go into making a similar thing but with color, unless it was a feature that could be turned on and off. But I agree it'd be nice if they could, though not necessary for me to buy it.
If it came down to the $200 range, and the list of books were a lot larger, I'd probably get one. As it is, they'll probably come out with another model before I get the chance, which is totally fine with me. Most of what I read is sci-fi, fantasy, and history books, and if they had a big enough selection I'd do it in a heartbeat. It'd be especially helpful for my history books. Being able to dogear pages, search for specific text and clip sections would make my classes a hell of a lot easier, and I could bring it to class for quick referencing. It'd also make writing papers 10 times easier as well. I'd imagine I'd like something similar when I'm a teacher as well, so I could have kids email their papers to me, upload them onto the Kindle and grade them on the go.
And the treehugger in me just has to say...think of the trees that'd be saved! Admittedly this wouldn't stop me from buying ALL actual books, but for sure it'd cut down on the total number made and sold.
In summary, I think it's a fantastic offering that needs some time to work its way down to the masses, but I think it'll find a foothold, especially with Amazon's colossal marketing power behind it, and maybe eventually find its way into the mainstream.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
It looks like a step in the right direction, but for me it's a lot less automatic to push a button to change "pages" than to actually turn pages. Also, I find it easier to find something in a book by flipping through pages in the general depth than by clicking through screens (but perhaps the ability to search for words will make up for this loss).
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:But it can only read text files, HTML, and its own native format, so you're limited to what you can load on there yourself.
The lack of PDF viewing is crippling, in my opinion.
If the Amazon-specific file could be generated by a specialized printer driver (a free one, at least to kindle owners) then it might be acceptable. But right now there doesn't seem to be a good way to easily use the reader for a huge array of documents out there.
The email service might be OK, but it will get tedious quickly.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Oh, yeah, no PDF? That's wrong. Though I hope that they do focus on a black and white version that is just for books (and is hopefully cheaper).
I mean, it's possible to spend over $100 on a nice set of scriptures - which I have never done, but I could see using that as a rationale to get one of these when the price is about half.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
You can convert PDF to the Kindle's format in less than two minutes - and that's including the time it takes to download and install the conversion software.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
That's cool. I specifically looked for that capability when I read it. I guess I missed it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: For someone like me, who needs reading material within reach at all times and tends to burn through books quickly, an e-book reader is fantastic. But my Palm does that nicely, along with a lot of other functions. I'd attracted to the display and feel of the Kindle, but until the price drops down considerably I won't be buying one.
Exactly. Also, do I really need yet another device to try to stuff into my purse?
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I did use a Visor in lieu of scriptures for a while, but then I learned that everytime I marked or annotated, it caused the syncing to take much longer.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
Okay, a lot of those are a stretch, but I think Act 1 makes a good point about DRM in general.
Btw, does anybody else find it odd that they are naming this device "Kindle"?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
The two quotes in Act 1 ignore the most important difference between a physical medium and a digital one: when you "resell that book...loan it out, or...give it away," you lose your copy of that book for the duration that it is not in your possession. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not allowed to make xerox copies of your book and then give it away to people, keeping the xeroxes to read yourself.
If there were any hope at ALL that people wouldn't just keep all the e-book files they let people "borrow," I doubt anyone would care this much about DRM. Apple, at least, was sort of smart about it: let up to 5 people use the file, but allow the owner of the file to reset who can use it, effectively allowing the song to be "borrowed."
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
An average mass-market paperback is $8. Half of the paperbacks published are remaindered, ie the covers are ripped off and sent back to the publisher for refund and the contents tossed into the garbage.
The average author royalty is 50cents per mass-market paperback sold. Be absurdly generous and grant the publishers another 50cents per book in expenses for their labors in editing&typesetting and advertising.
Somehow paying $10 per eBook for an electronic copy of their $1 worth of expenses seems off in an over-ripe chicken kind of way. I wouldn't mind if the author's royalty were bumped up $9 per eBook. Heck I wouldn't mind if the publisher agreed to split 50-50 with the author. But giving the publisher a $9 reward for doing less -- no expenses for making a hardcopy -- just stinks.
Add a reader that costs as much as a low-end laptop computer...and about as portable and rugged, ie not at all. Ya can't one-hand it while reading or stick it in a back pocket. And ya certainly don't want to nod off and roll over it in your sleep, or drop it while bathing, or even just drop it.
With the writer's royalties being what they currently are, about the only way I would buy the $400 Kindle is if Amazon included the first 200 eBooks of my choosing for free.
[ November 20, 2007, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
This would be the ONLY way I would consider getting an e-book reader...I can't stand reading things on a computer screen...I would LOVE to be able to get textbooks on something like that; then I could bike to class and not worry so much about falling over because of textbooks and such...plus, I wouldn't have to worry about forgetting. But yeah...the price is too high for me. Although if I could read business plans on it and use it for work and such as well, it would be more appealing...
quote:Btw, does anybody else find it odd that they are naming this device "Kindle"
Apparently it's kindle meaning "spark" as in creativity.
Newsweek had a huge article about the Kindle this week. They said 200 books on the Kindle with hundreds more on a memory card makes it easily worth it. Books can be downloaded in seconds, and they said most importantly the sort of semi conscious dream state people go into while reading is easily replicated on the device.
I'm very interested in it, but as hypocritical as it sounds I am going to wait for the next generation so that I get color screens, longer battery life, greater memory storage, and other bells and whistles.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: and they said most importantly the sort of semi conscious dream state people go into while reading is easily replicated on the device.
*snort* You mean someone has done ECGs of people using one of these? What nonsense.
I have no trouble getting into my usual reading state while reading ebooks on my Palm. *shrug*
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I'm very interested in it, but as hypocritical as it sounds I am going to wait for the next generation so that I get color screens, longer battery life, greater memory storage, and other bells and whistles.
I'll just wait until the price goes down, though some of that would be nice. I imagine greater memory would be easily added in the next generation, if it gets to the next generation since the price of flash memory is going down so fast. But I don't know if they can even do that with color screens, but I'd hope so, for the sake of illustrations. The battery life already looks really impressive on it, more isn't necessary. But I'd be interested to see what else they could add.
Mostly I just want a price drop.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well, Kindles are sold out throughout the first of the year.
Orders are filled now on a first come first serve basis. From the looks of the reviews, the One star bad reviews are from people who don't even own one, and the Four stars are people who either bought one or were sent one to try out.
It looks like people pretty much like it, but they have big issues with the price, and the cost of books, plus the DRM, those seem to be the big three. But I think they'll go away over time.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
The information I want to know seems kind've hard to find. Newsweek mentioned that it can be used to view web pages, though not video. Does that mean that one can access web pages other than Wikipedia and Amazon with the thing? I, for one, would love to have access to Rotten Tomatoes while visiting a video store (and, even more, love for my wife to have access to it. I don't mind rom-coms, but a bad rom-com is a unique kind of pain. ) It can receive subscripions to newspapers and magazines, but does it omit all the photographs? (I know it's a black and white device.)
If someone offered me a book club membership that gave me 50% off of books for a lifetime for $400, I'd say no. Even if they offered me a free MP3 player to go with it.
A $400 device that is so small and easy to carry that anyone who walks off with it can quickly charge $100 in books to my credit card? Hmm.
A book that flight attendants will look at me with irritation if I try to read it while taking off or landing? And that airport security will look at in suspicious puzzlement for at least a year to come? Double hmm.
But a device that allows me to access the full web (more or less) from anywhere? That begins to sound a lot more attractive.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: and they said most importantly the sort of semi conscious dream state people go into while reading is easily replicated on the device.
*snort* You mean someone has done ECGs of people using one of these? What nonsense.
I have no trouble getting into my usual reading state while reading ebooks on my Palm. *shrug*
Well shoot I got into my reading state while reading semi obscured pages scanned by a digital camera.
But alot of people still seem to think that you can't get engrossed in a book unless its a proper book. The kindle actually imitates fonts, and it looks similar to a book. Not that those things matter to me, but if we are going to transition from the majestic book which has been a favorite for hundreds of years, people generally have to be comfortable moving to a new format.
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
Has anyone gotten it? I have been seriously considering it. I used to read books on my palm but the reality is that the screen is TINY, and it is frustrating to read on such a small screen. The Kindle's larger screen and similar fonts to what might be found in the actual book is appealing, and I can put my audiobooks from audible.com on it too.
The simple facts are that I am running out of room for books in my apartment, and since I'm really bad about returning books on time to the library (sad I know since I'm going to try to get into a Library Science program soon) it's often cheaper for me to buy a book than check it out. I'm also a big re-reader for books that I like, and I prefer hardcovers, so it would probably end up paying for itself. I've tried and tried to find more book space (other than stacking them on the floor). I've gone through my personal library several times, and I've come to the point that I can't find anymore books that I would want to wean out of what I own. The only way to go is electronic.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I know someone who owns one, and he swears by it. I've never used one personally, though.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
I have one (v2). I really like it. But the $360 price tag is a hard pill to swallow, and I'm still not sure it's really worth *that* much. Some books are greatly discounted (just got a collection of 38 books by Arthur Conan Doyle for 99 cents), some not so much. I'm extremely irritated by the fact that it didn't come with some kind of carrying case (for $360, it should at least come with a plastic sleeve to slide it into). I had to buy one separately.
It's very easy to read though. It's not backlit, and it uses a technology called electronic paper. I quickly forget that I'm not reading a paper and ink book. The big advantage to me is that I don't have to decide which book to take with me when I go out. I have over 300 books on it right now, and I've barely scratched the surface of the storage space.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
Another minus: It's design makes it very easy to drop. It's very smooth, and the edges are tapered a little thinner than the middle, so it easily slides out of your fingers. If only they had made the back plate ridged or something, it would be much easier to hold.
Another plus: It has greatly improved my vocabulary. When I read an analog book, and I come across a word I don't know, I make a mental note to look it up later, then I never do. The Kindle has the New Oxford American Dictionary built in. If you come across a word you don't know, just highlight it with your cursor, and the definition is displayed.
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
I have a Kindle. Honestly, I read a lot more with it. I've slowed down over the years, but I've really picked up the pace with this thing. My theory as to why I read more:
1) I get intimidated by the size of books these days. I think I just tell myself that I don't have the time to read a big book. With this thing, I have no idea how long it will be. Just how quickly I got to the halfway point.
2) I like looking at just one page without anything in my peripheral. I've tried this with papers stapled together, and I don't know why, but I'm more likely to go all the way through a chunk of information that way.
3) I can adjust the amount of words that show up on one page, which helps me feel like I'm doing well. Another intimidation thing I've developed.
4) Nobody knows what I'm reading.
After-buying reasons:
1) It sure would be a waste of money if I didn't use it.
2) People who see me read it have some kind of opinion, either they were unsure about it and are curious (perfect strangers) and I'm daring and cool, or they're certain that they sure as hell wouldn't spend that money on it (friends), or they're paper elitists and I'm just cowardly towards books. Either way, I get a reaction, and I don't regret any of them.
As far as I'm concerned, paper doesn't make novels. Words do. Well, I have a copy of the Lord of the Rings that smells a certain appealing way, and that helped create a unique experience. So if I don't buy a book, am I robbing myself of another experience like that? Maybe, but when I buy a digital copy, and I like it enough (like all of my music), I usually buy the hard copy as well. If a book is good enough that the smell of the paper won't make a difference, then it will be on my bookshelf permanently.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I totally want one once the price comes way down, the exclusivity of the medium is blown open, and the number of books available increases a thousandfold. Seriously, it doesn't read pdf files? That's completely lame. (edit: it seems the kindle2 has pdf support, yay.) Also, I don't need just new books going forward on it. I intend to get rid of my whole library in favor of the thing. I want it to hold every book ever written, you know? It should have the entire contents of the Library of Congress, plus a good bit more, and I'll find it mostly acceptable. It's got to have all the out-of-print books from previous centuries, and all that. I want good color, too, and a keyboard that's a whole lot faster to use for searching, annotating, etc.
But I definitely think it's the thing of the future, and I do plan one day to eliminate all my paper books in favor of something like a kindle. It's just not there yet.
[ May 27, 2009, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Does anyone know if there's a kindle 3 planned, and when it's due out? What features it will have? I'm wanting to keep up.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
Don't look for it, Taylor. You may not like what you find.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Ah, this is the one I was comparing, the DX. I see it's coming out this summer. I was thinking it was already out, I guess. It looks like it's an improvement, but the price is going in the wrong direction. Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
Gah! There are people on ebay trying to sell the Kindle 2 for $2400! Who do they think they are kidding?! You can get one brand new from amazon for only $360.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Kindle Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
Now I know why it said "Don't Panic!" on the delivery box.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I have the kindle version 1, and I really love it. It is easy to buy books and have them automatically delivered to your kindle. It is also very easy to transfer books from your computer to your kindle via USB. It is cool being able to have the entire project Gutenberg library to pull from.
I'm very happy that I purchased my kindle, and I read from it all the time.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) It can receive subscripions to newspapers and magazines, but does it omit all the photographs? (I know it's a black and white device.)![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Another intimidation thing I've developed.![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)