Alright, so, yesterday I went in to the bank to cash my paycheck and I saw a sign that mentioned winning some large amount of money just for using my debit card or something. I remember thinking, "It sure would be cool to get a call saying I won that."
So, this morning I looked at my phone and noticed there was a call I missed from an unknown phone number. There was no message left. I tried calling it a couple of times and asking who it was, but I got a busy signal both times. Stopped thinking about it.
Later on I was wandering around Barnes & Noble with my girlfriend (I was actually looking at No Country for Old Men because the movie was SO good) and I got a phone call from the same number as before. I answered it.
The guy on the phone asked for me and I said I was speaking. He started explaining he was from Omnipresent Publications (or something similar) and that I was entered into a drawing, to be held 12/31, to win $1,000,000 for using my credit card (or something; he mentioned my card) and then confirmed that I did have a card and that I was between the ages of 19 and 60. I said yes.
He then went on to say that just be being entered into the drawing I was going to get some designer watch for free (there was something about there being a diamond in it) in either men's style or women's style. He then goes on to explain about a "deal" regarding magazines. He says he'll send me three magazines for 2 years (and he lists three popularish magazines) for "free" if I "help pay" for a fourth subscription of my choice. He also says that the first three magazines can be changed to any number of magazines on some list at any time for no charge.
I just kind of hear all of this and go along. He mentions that he was new with the company and his boss would be calling soon after he hung up to confirm he got all the information down right (he already had my address and obviously my phone number; I just had to say "Yeah, that's it") and that he was polite, etc. He then wished me luck in the drawing on the 31st and hang up. At this point I hadn't given him anything except confirmation of information he already had, and agreeing to be sent the magazines for the low price or whatever (oh, and I also said I wanted the men's style watch). I was a little flabbergasted.
So, like the guy said, his boss called just a few minutes later. He kind of repeated most of what the first guy said. He asked for a second phone number in case I won the million dollar drawing on the 31st. He asked me what my favorite hobby was (movies) and then threw in a movie magazine along with the others (so I'd be getting five magazine in total). He explained that I'd be paying such and such amount for the magazine(s) per week, but it'd be a monthly payment, but they thought it was ridiculous to charge me a month for 24 months, so they combined it so that I would be paying such and such amount for 12 months for these five magazines to come to my door for the next 2 years (plus the watch and so forth). He then asked me for my credit card number.
At this point I had already accepted the magazine thing and had actually assumed they already had my credit card number (I figured it was the contest I mentioned at the very beginning at the bank; I assumed it would be known already), so at the time, caught up in all of it, I didn't think it'd hurt. I mean, I knew I'd be paying. I'd agreed to it. So I gave it to him (my girlfriend's looking at me funny at this point) and he asks me if the previous guy was polite and then confirms the whole magazine thing and hangs up.
So!
As I was given time to think about it all, I realized that $74 dollars a month for a year was maybe a little too much even for five magazines for two years; especially since I was really only supposed to "help" pay for one magazine and get the rest for free.
I also realized I really shouldn't have given out my CC# without knowing exactly who and what I was talking to.
So, I started getting nervous and a little depressed at my own stupidity. As soon as I could I got online and searched for "Omnipresent Publications" but I found nothing on Google or Wikipedia (I could have heard wrong, though). I also checked my bank account and noticed that they had already taken out the first payment, but it was what they said it would be. Not something huge or whatever.
Another thing I should note is they said in order to get the watch, for registration purpose I'd need to sign something and send it back...
So...
My question to you would be, was I scammed? Or was this really an actual contest framed around a money-making "scheme"?
And will I be able to cancel the magazines, assuming they're real?
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Well... first - where'd the fourth subscription come from? I read three and then the movie one... So where'd the fourth come from?
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
I would probably call the credit card company and talk to them. Their security section is usually pretty up to date with all the frauds.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I was supposed to be receive three subscriptions for free, in addition to a fourth one that I "helped to pay for." Then the second guy I talked to threw in the movie magazine.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
You weren't scammed on a huge level. You were scammed, and the line between getting your credit card number and getting your verbal confirmation to withdraw from said card is not thin. This was a mistake. You will probably get your magazines, I wouldn't bet on the watch, and if you are able to cancel the magazines, it will be very hard. It will test your patience.
But eh, lesson learned?
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I see it. Sorry about that...
At least you'll have some fresh reading material for a while? You say you tried to search them on-line - what happens when you try to call the number back?
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I haven't called back; not yet. My phone was almost dead when I was talking to them and I only got home a while ago to get it charged. And its late right now.
I'll call tomorrow, but I expect I'll get a busy signal like this morning.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
You are paying $888 for 5 magazines for 2 years- so $88 a year for each magazine- that seems steep. Call your credit card company- they should be able to get you out of it.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
So, if I call my credit card company, what do I say? I mean, do I need to tell them the whole story or can they just stop the charges? Should I ask for a specific person or what?
Do I need to go directly to the card company, or can I go to my bank?
Also, should this be done ASAP or can it wait a couple of days? My girlfriend and I are heading out of town for a couple of days for our anniversary tomorrow. Can it wait until after, or should I get it done in the morning?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Don't most purchases give you a few days to change your mind due to buyers' remorse?
-o-
FWIW, I would call your credit card company ASAP.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
A few more questions, if you guys don't mind....
Does it matter if this is a debit rather than credit card?
Would it be considered as "fraud" or anything like that (I mean, when speaking with the credit card company) or is it just charges I'd like to cancel?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's not really fraud (unless they never send you the magazines). And yeah, the fact that it's a debit card might making getting the money back harder after the fact, so get it stopped NOW.
Good luck!
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I called my bank's 24 hour phone service. Since I only gave the guy my card number she was able to cancel the card. That should stop any future charges. The one charge he was able to...charge can't be taken off, but... Well.. Lesson learned
Thanks for the help.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I'd probably call the card people and ask them to verify the origination of the charge. I'd also try to call the number that called re: the subscriptions/contest tomorrow morning and ask to speak to someone... the names of the persons you spoke with is a good place to start. If you don't have that - try just asking for customer care or the like...
As rivka said - Good luck!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I've gotten calls like this, like, 6 times. I've never signed up for the magazines. I've been told I was being sent a watch and never got it. I don't know exactly what it is but I've never had charges on my account from it (but as I said, I never signed up for the magazines.)
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
A few years ago I was looking for work and I responded to an ad in my school paper looking for people to appear as extras in movies, commercials, that kind of thing. I got through an extensive application process over the phone and was then informed that I would need to submit a credit card for a "registration fee". My BS detector went off, and I told the guy that I'd changed my mind, and that this really wasn't the kind of thing I was looking for, and so on.
I was informed that all my information was already entered into the system and that if I wished to cancel later, I would receive a full refund. Simply aborting the process now was impossible because, again, I was already registered. I was told if I failed to supply payment, "criminal charges" would be pressed. I hung up.
Scammers, whether legal or illegal, will go to great lengths to keep you paying. I've heard of other subscription scams that threaten legal repercussions when you try to quit. Hopefully, they won't pull that on you (more likely they'll just spend half an hour trying to talk you out of it) but if they do, be aware that it's BS.
Best of luck.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
If I've gotten the card canceled and so they can't charge me anymore, does it really matter finding out where it came from or anything? I mean, I can accept the lost money as a reminder to not be stupid, but if they could still cause damage...?
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
If the card's not valid anymore and you're not sweating the initial charges... call it Lesson Learned. ; )
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
Great. The charges aren't so bad as the fact that I now won't have my card for the next three days. Nobody takes checks anymore, so I'll have to carry cash and/or frequent the bank to entertain my girl... Ah well.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Have fun!!!!! : )
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
It does make a difference with a debit card. Debit cards have a lot of dangers people don't realize, often including lacking that fraud protection that comes standard with most credit cards. Since getting burned with debit cards, I have started recommending to people that they don't use them extensively like pretend credit cards.
How often do you balance your "checkbook"?
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I check my online statement fairly frequently for anything I don't recognize. I also look through the monthly paper statement I get through the mail.
So, I read that link and they didn't use the exact number, but it did have the 813 prefix.
So, just one more time just for my own peace of mind, since the card is canceled they can't charge me anymore, can they? Since I did, technically, agree to the charges, can they come back at me even though the card is canceled?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Could they (legally) come after you? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Will they? No.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I would go to a little more effort to try and get it completely taken care of. I wouldn't put it past a company like that to sell off you "debt" to a collection agency. In a few months you could be getting a letter telling you that you're in collections on the unpaid magazine subscription and a black mark is being put on your credit report.
Do what you can to finalize this completely now.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
If the comany records their calls, they could have a verbal contract with you. I don't know how well it would hold up without anything on paper. (I don't handle the chargebacks and the regulations are extensive.)
If you get your magazines, they didn't commit fraud and you're out the cash. You can try to negotiate a return with the company, but be sure to send the magazines back certified if you do. If you have no proof they got the magazines, you still have no chargeback rights.
I know kids who sign up for a gym membership, can't figure out how to cancel the contract, and just block the old card. The gym sends them to collections, but they also have a written contract clearly spelling out the terms of membership. You should check with the chargeback specialist at the bank and see exactly what they can and can't do with their verbal contract.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
Something like this happened to me a long time ago, except I didn't give them a cc number and they billed me. When I got the first bill, which was huge because they wanted me to pay for 2 years in 12 months, I tried to cancel. The guy gave me a huge runaround and argued with me, etc. I told him to cancel, I didn't want the magazines. He refused. So I called each magazine, told them to cancel and that I never agreed to the subscriptions. They did, never heard a word from the scammers.
I would start there, and cancel the magazines indidvidually. Then dispute the charge on your card. If none of that works, report your card lost/stolen. This will stop all charges on your card, they will issue you a new card with a new number, and any future charges to the old card # won't go through.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
It's good that you got the card canceled, but you do still need to deal with the magazine subscriptions, like everyone else is saying. If you don't cancel them and you are sent magazines, they would have a valid reason to come after you for a debt.
You got the important part taken care of, though, so while I would try to get a hold of this company right away, if that doesn't work talking to the magazines individually can probably wait until you get back.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Back when I used to administrate a number of web fora, I was regularly subscribed to magazines against my will and without my knowledge. At one point, somebody managed to sign me up for three hundred publications, many quite expensive; it took me several hours to cancel them all.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
How did they manage to get your credit card number via the web fora?
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I'd guess that the whole 'bill me later' thing came into play?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Yep. Basically you need only submit a request via a webform or send in the postage-paid drop card with "Bill Me Later" checked, and you can easily sign up anyone you dislike whose address you know for all the magazine subscriptions you'd like them to have.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Coming in late. I see you've already cancelled that card number and are getting a new card. That's good because it ensures that these people can't turn around and try to put even more on the card.
As for the magazines, expect to start receiving bills and dunning notices in the mail. And yes, it can and probably will get nasty.
I got zapped by a similar scam during the Super Bowl, of all times. And because of a big play on the screen, I wasn't completely paying attention. But they promised me specific titles that I wanted and never delivered. I got magazines, all right, but not a single one was what I wanted. So I did the same thing, cancelled the card, got a new one and started a letter-writing campaign to cancel my account. I finally had to get one of my bosses - an attorney - involved to get rid of them. When he demanded to hear the audio recording of my phone conversation signing up for the program, suddenly they were willing to write everything off and clear the credit report. I suspect because either they didn't have the audio they claimed to have or because they realized that I was very clearly asking for titles that I never received. That was over a year later... so you're probably going to be dealing with this for a long time.
Good luck!!!
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I just tried calling the number they called me from. It rang for a little while, stopped, and then there were three beeps and nothing...?
I'll try again later I guess...
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
Oh, I also filled out an FTC complaint form. It couldn't hurt, right? Especially if they try to collect.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: ...you can easily sign up anyone you dislike whose address you know for all the magazine subscriptions you'd like them to have.
Really...interesting... *runs off*
Seriously, I wonder how the legal aspects work out. Like if someone really does that and mails you magazines for a year, but then you're too lazy to cancel and threw them away, are you legally required to pay? (Ignoring that they'll probably bug you or something)
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Dang, when I first started reading I thought this was going to be a story about how you had won millions of dollars and were offering up the money to any Hatrackers who "need help." Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I wish
So, they called me just now. I'm not sure if it was a "return call" from my trying to call them earlier or if they had some other reason, but I asked to cancel.
The lady (not anyone I've spoken to) kept explaining that they had already paid for the subscriptions and I was just "paying them back," as it were, so they couldn't cancel. I kept explaining I wanted it canceled. She kept taking it down and saying it should work for me, but I repeated I wanted it canceled.
She kept going and wouldn't cancel it, so I threatened taking it farther, possibly legal action if they didn't. She got smarmy, but I still kept asking to cancel.
Basically she tried to stonewall me, but eventually after she ran through a bunch of "this is the best I can do" lines she said, "Well obviously this will be too much hassle, so I'll just go ahead and cancel."
I had her repeat it and say she deleted me from their system. I then made her say they wouldn't call me again. Then it was done. Oh, and she also said that the first charge was supposed to be an "authorization charge." LIke, they were testing to make sure my account existed and then it would go away? I don't know. Hopefully that was true and it won't be on my account anymore.
So! Hopefully its done. I guess I'll post back here if anything else crops up
And thank you guys for such great (and speedy!) help! You guys are great for helping out a nobody lurker such as myself Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
And here. Wow busy company. How have they not been destroyed by the comps yet? They're clearly doing things of extremely questionable legality. Can't the cops shut them down?
Trust me, you're not out of their systems and you will probably start getting magazines in about six weeks. Before the first mag shows, though, you'll start getting bills in the mail since the card they have on file is no longer valid.
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Times and dates and names of everyone you speak with (and if you can remember these details on the calls you already had). I'm certain now that you're going to need an attorney's involvement in the future. This is sounding EXACTLY like what I went through, even down to the "we've already paid for them and you're just paying us back" line.
Do you have the ability to put your calls on speakerphone? If so, get a tape recorder and tape your calls with these people. You do need to advise them at the beginning that the call is being recorded.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Really? I was under the impression that only one party needed to be aware that it was being recorded.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
That depends on the state.
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
The easiest way that I have seen to inform them is to basically give the customer service line "You call will be recorded for training purposes... blah blah blah blah" sounding tired, exasperated or just a tone that makes you sound like you aren't being serious. It doesn't matter if they believe you or not.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
You better watch that charge. Now that you changed card numbers it might not just 'go away'. I'd dispute the charge immediately.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I'm glad you have been given some good advice specific to this circumstance above.
My general rule is that "our family does not do business over the phone," and I tell the phone marketing person this when I am in such a situation at the very beginning. If they already have our address, it's fine for them to send something through the mail for us to look at in our leisure, but we don't do (unsolicited) business over the phone. It's a pretty firm rule for us, and it serves us well.
Mind you, when we have called a company we already have a relationship with, then for expediency's sake, we'll do stuff over the phone. But Jon, in general, if someone else approaches you, it's usually not purely for your own best interests -- often there is a catch if not an outright scam, and the success of that working on you often depends on fast talking and not giving you a chance to think.
You won't miss out on much good stuff by making a habit of insisting on thinking offers over at your leisure, and you will save yourself much heartache.
Good luck!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: My general rule is that "our family does not do business over the phone," and I tell the phone marketing person this when I am in such a situation at the very beginning. If they already have our address, it's fine for them to send something through the mail for us to look at in our leisure, but we don't do (unsolicited) business over the phone. It's a pretty firm rule for us, and it serves us well.
Me too! And when I get overly pushy charitable solicitors (many of who are working on commission, which is a practice I detest), I will tell them that if they keep pushing, I will no longer be willing to look at what they mail me.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I may well have gotten the idea and wording from you, rivka.
I don't think there is likely to be much if any incentive for the person on the phone to actually send stuff, as he/she would be unlikely to be credited with the sale, and the evaluations of such workers are often based on sales-per-volume (time and/or calls) basis. If something is sent, I'll look, but it's rare that I'd be remotely interested.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Actually, if it's anything like the (very brief) time I went door-to-door for CalPIRG, materials left/mailed are coded with the caller's info, and they do get credit for money collected that way. (And even in the less than 10 days that I did that job, it did occasionally happen.)
Oh, and while it's possible that you got the idea from me (I don't remember if/when I've mentioned it before), the phrasing is a bit different. And I think I like yours better. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Oh, really? Well, that is good to know. (Both the mailing info and that I may have aided you, too.)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We have that same policy. I got one tele-charity person that was pretty good at rolling with it though -- when I told him that we don't give over the phone and he was welcome to send information he said, "Oh, of course not! We don't ever expect people to donate over the phone! I'll just take down your pledge information and then we'll send you the information." After I clarified that I wouldn't be making a commitment on the phone his voice got all puzzeled as he explained that he had to have the amount I planned to pledge in order to send out the material. I told him that was a shame, since I would have been willing to look at the material if he'd sent it, but since he couldn't do that I hoped he had a nice day. And then I hung up.
Posted by Boothby171 (Member # 807) on :
You might also want to contact the credit review companies (Experian, TRW, etc.) to alert them to the likelihood that these scammers (yes, you've been scammed) are going to start tying to affect your credit. A pre-emptive strike, as it were.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Good point.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
My mother in law gets calls like this all the time. Being 85, she says yes to everything. She's been known to have two different subscriptions to the same magazine, renewed for 12 years, and as you've found, rather than being discounted, they charge a premium subscription rate.
We have to chase around after her to make sure the subscriptions are cancelled, and it's a lot of work. These people aren't nice. They usually refuse to cancel the subscriptions. In one case, the magazine went out of business, so she was still paying a monthly charge on a magazine she wasn't recieving, and they still said they'd sick a bill collector on her and mess up her credit rating. Another company somehow got permission to make withdrawals directly from her checking account.
As for the sending materials in the mail: I stopped even talking to police benevolent associations when I told them to send me information in the mail, and they send me some raffle tickets, and a bill for an amount that hadn't even been mentioned in the phone call.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I'll keep an eye out in case anything else happens. I'm really hoping nothing does, though.
One hopeful thing, though. When I was speaking to the girl a couple of mornings ago (when I got the thing canceled), she mentioned that the first charge that appeared wasn't a real charge. It was meant to just test whether my card was active, or something. She said it'd go away in a couple of days. I thought it was hooey at the time, but...
I just got back home and I checked my account and that charge was there. Was this to be expected, or can I be allowed a little hope it means they were being honest when they said they'd erased me?
Another question: If giving them permission over the phone to charge me is legally binding, wouldn't them telling me they'd erase me from their system be legally binding as well?
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