I've been watching and listening to the annual wars over Christmas and the meaning of Christmas and I just have one thing to say:
Hey, you rude Christians who keep shouting about Non-Christians stealing your holiday, be quiet.
Obviously, you didn't get the memo.
You see, Christmas is the best marketing tool Christians have had, ever. I mean, yeah, Salvation is pretty good, and Heaven--you can never beat Heaven.
But as my old marketing professor said, "You can't sell the steak on TV. You sell the Sizzle." You are trying to sell the "Next life" to a world out there who can't really get a good look at what you are selling until, well, its too late.
"Buyer beware" is very hard to beat when it comes to religion. Its not like you are pushing Ice to Eskimos. No, you are pushing Ice to some Amazon tribe who have never seen water turn solid before. Don't expect them to buy it unless they have some product to view, and the after-life is not very viewable from this side of the white light.
So someone--I'm thinking Good King Wenceslas?, Wenttoslaw?, Whenceweslew? Good King Wendal, about a millennium ago, came up with Christmas as a marketing tool to get his people to convert, and its kind of snowballed from their.
I know, Christmas is all about the birth of Jesus and the fact that he will save the world and all who are in it.
Easter, the part where he actually does the saving, is a distant second to Christmas when it comes to celebration.
So why is Christmas such a great big thing. Its not even that important in the Bible?
It seems to me that the answer is Marketing. See, Easter has this guilt and torture and sin stuff all over it. While that might sell to the Teenage Boy market, to the rest of the world, its just not that great.
But Christmas you have Babies. You turn it into a celebration of Family, of cute Children. You bring in the very best of Christianity--Peace, Love, Joy. No one looks at a manger scene, with Virginal Momma and Innocent Child and thinks of Christianities downsides. You can't think Spanish Inquisition and Baby Jesus in the same thought without getting a headache. Peace On Earth totally wipes out thoughts of Holy Crusades or the deaths of Martyrs and heretics that Christianity has inspired.
Then around the turn of the 20th century, the marketing people got really good. They hooked up with some Capitalist big shots to finance this into the best holiday ever.
They hired the best names in marketing--Coke, Dickens, Charles Schultz, Norman Rockwell, Jimmy Stewart--people we trust and believe in, even if we don't believe in the Trinity.
We read the magazines and books, watched the movies, then the Television. We became to see Christianity not as fundamental belief system to guide us to salvation and heaven, but as something we should join in order to truly appreciate Christmas.
Family, Sacrifice for loved ones, Gifts and Giving. If you believe in these things, then you are a Christian at heart, the marketing said. Go to church, where you belong, or just stay away from Christmas. Its too good for you.
And if you don't convert at Christmas you feel lower than a Public Television viewer at pledge time.
The commercialization and secularization of Christmas was not an attack on Christianity organized by Atheists. Its a Christian marketing tool designed to bring more people, Agnostics and others, into the fold.
Santa and Rudolph are the perfect strawmen. They don't exist, but they represent Christmas. Who could hate them. If you love them, and they love Christmas and Christmas is Christian, well then convert.
And many do, at least for the Holiday season.
Yes, during December we all become a bit Christian, mouthing and maybe believing in that "Joy to the World" and "Peace on Earth" stuff. Wishing someone a Merry Christmas is never bad. Its just saying have a good day on 12/25.
Yes, during December we all are invited to visit Christianity, to marvel at its sweet ideals and bright flashy lights.
Then comes the drunken orgy that is New Years Eve and so many of us think the same thing:
"Christianity, a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."
Better luck catching us next year my friends.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
And I thought baked bread was an advertisement for the religion of ancient Egypt.
quote:You are trying to sell the "Next life" to a world out there who can't really get a good look at what you are selling until, well, its too late.
I don't think that the afterlife is Christianity's strongest point. When I was a missionary, I tried to stay focused on the effects of living a Christ-centered life right now.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Hey, you rude Christians who keep shouting about Non-Christians stealing your holiday, be quiet.
I think you've missed the point. Christians are never upset about having non-Christians join them in celebrating the birth of Jesus. As you noted, its great publicity. What some Christians object to is those who want to enjoy the lights, the presents, the food and the fun even without having to hear anything about the birth of Jesus. And if you can have the party without getting any of the religious message then Christians have lost their marketing tool.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:You are trying to sell the "Next life" to a world out there who can't really get a good look at what you are selling until, well, its too late.
I don't think that the afterlife is Christianity's strongest point. When I was a missionary, I tried to stay focused on the effects of living a Christ-centered life right now.
Now here's a question I've always had. From the Christian world view, why does this life matter? If you believe that we're going to live forever in some sort of afterlife, what's 70 years?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
For Mormons, we believe that not only will we live forever, we have ALREADY lived forever. This life is another phase in our existence. It's important because (IMO, and as far as I know) this is the first time in our existence that we've been out of God's immediate influence. Things can happen here, during mortality, that could not happen at any other time in our existence.
There is no one purpose to this life. There are many, and they all may be equally important. This is the first time in our existence that we've had physical bodies; we are here to learn, be tested to see if we are willing to follow God, and help others.
Mormons believe in a concept called eternal progression-- that is, we grow in knowledge and happiness throughout eternity. This life is one step on that path; it's a crucial step because of the unique circumstances presented to us.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Rabbit, I didn't make myself understood, sorry.
I know the that enjoying the spirit of Christmas without the story of Christmas is like listening to your favorite NPR show all year, but turning it off during pledge week.
What I am warning the upset complainers about is that they are spoiling the marketing plan. I mean here we go, getting a nice good feeling for the season, Peace, Love, a new Wii, what could be better. We start thinking, hey, any religion that could give us something as sweet as Christmas cookies, is worth getting involved with.
Then some loud mouth starts ranting about the Secularization of the Season, and starts complaining that all the stuff we enjoy about the holiday is junk, and we think, "Oh Yeah. That's why I quit going to church. There was always some holier than thou loudmouth trying to tell me what to do. They spoiled all my fun. Yeah, forget Christianity, I want to go back to my Wii."
Santa is the bait to get us to the church. They scream "Santa's wrong!" When they start diss'n the bait, they ain't gonna catch any fish.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Santa Claus is hardly bait for Christianity the way he is portrayed in the United States.
Go to the mall with your kids, they sit on Santa's lap and tell what they want for Christmas, they're not being handed a Bible. They get a candy cane, or an ornament, or something.
quote:"Oh Yeah. That's why I quit going to church. There was always some holier than thou loudmouth trying to tell me what to do. They spoiled all my fun. Yeah, forget Christianity, I want to go back to my Wii."
This works both ways, you know. "Oh, yeah. That's why I get irritated when people get outraged when they're wished 'Merry Christmas' instead of 'Happy Holidays': they want the celebration that's only a celebration because of Christianity* without ever hearing about Christianity."
*And yes, I'm well aware of how *gasp* Christians 'stole' holidays from various pagan traditions, and that yes, in fact, Jesus was probably not born on December 25th, 0CE. But putting 'Christ's Birthday' on a whole few weeks seems a bit strange-why not just pick a day?-and so what if pagans used to celebtrate the season differently and Christians co-opted it? That means Christians should have no celebration near that date?
Hell, I didn't realize that to pick a holiday, you had to check back a few millenia and make sure it didn't conflict with anything else.
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quote:Now here's a question I've always had. From the Christian world view, why does this life matter? If you believe that we're going to live forever in some sort of afterlife, what's 70 years?
Is this really a serious question, Javert? Because on the face of it, and I'm not trying to be rude, it's not a very good one. This is the same sort of perspective that says, "It doesn't matter what we do in our own lives, our lives are so insignifigant anyway."
It doesn't seem to be a very good question to me because when you say, "Why does it matter?", it's just as valid to say, "Well, why doesn't it matter?"
And that's before even getting into any one of a half dozen Christianity-related answers to your question that I doubt you're unaware of but hinge ultimately on, "God instructs us to."
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
What Scott said. LDS believe that the span we live here (no matter how long or short) will have eternal consequences for us.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Jesus was probably not born on December 25th, 0CE.
I can promise you that nobody was born then, since there is no year zero. Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
I'm okay with people that aren't Christian participating in Christmas traditions even if there is no chance of them embracing Christianity itself. How is someone adopting a sense of generosity, festivity, and goodwill ever a bad thing? Even if it is seasonal, it feels good.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Ah, Rakeesh, when we are dealing with tricky atheists and slithering agnostics we have to be subtle in our baits.
Sure if Santa handed out little baby Jesus dolls (baby Jesi?) they would keep their offspring far away.
But let him pass out secular goodies, and the Kids will flock to him. The parents won't stop then no matter what, if any, religion they follow.
So the Children are won over by Santa, who limits his goodness to "that very special time of the year." Soon the children are asking what is so special about that time of year. Its a time of peace and love and charity is the answer. All the best that Christianity offers is packed into that time of year.
And the kids go away thinking, "I'm going to have a great Christmas."
Everyone is saying "Christmas".
And as the leaders of Apple, and Wal-Mart, and McDonalds, and Coke and Disney and etc, etc, the biggest thing in Marketing is name recognition.
So I believe, Rak, that Santa is the bait. His true backstory, about a do-gooding Christian Saint is the bait. The love and family and Norman Rockwell moments are the bait.
The hook is just well hidden and not as obvious as you may want.
And whenever someone behaves in Un-Christian like behavior in the name of putting Christ back in Christmas, they are spoiling the bait and ruining the trap.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Rakeesh, were you under the impression that choosing the winter solstice celebration to honor the Incarnation was accidental?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:What some Christians object to is those who want to enjoy the lights, the presents, the food and the fun even without having to hear anything about the birth of Jesus. And if you can have the party without getting any of the religious message then Christians have lost their marketing tool.
As someone of Roman ancestry, I'm pissed that those damned Christians have hijacked my Saturnalia festivities and are trying to force all that Jesus stuff on me. If I want to give out presents and enjoy the debauchery, it's my right, and has been for longer than Christians have even existed.
I mean jeez, thanks to the Christian influence, I can't even get a good orgy going during Christmas anymore. It's all about "family" and "togetherness." Thanks a lot for that!
Edit to add: Ah crap, I didn't see that Rakeesh already more or less covered that earlier. I'll add, to address a rhetorical question that he asked, that personally I don't care what Christians do with respect to Christmas so long as they aren't getting special treatment not available to others. It just gets a little tiresome after awhile to hear all those complaints about how people are stealing or ruining a holiday that they stole and ruined themselves 2000 years ago. It happens. So long as you keep the spirit of the holiday alive in your own family, the version of it that you treasure will never really be dead, so quit your bitching. (That's a nonspecific second person plural, not in reference to anyone in particular)
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