It's an old article but search didn't turn up any results.
The article is generally interesting but what I found most interesting was the fear felt by the students performing the experiment. I know that I would be extremely uncomfortable asking someone for their seat on a subway, and probably wouldn't even think of doing so unless I was on crutches or something.
Favorite excerpt:
quote:Dr. Carraher remembered leaning over and asking an elderly woman for her seat. The woman snapped: "If I were standing and you were sitting, I think it'd be very reasonable to ask you for your seat, but I'm not going to give you my seat."
The woman's neighbor, a man, was so embarrassed for Dr. Carraher that he immediately offered him his seat instead. Another man lectured him on his manners.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
In my college psych class, we had an assignment to ride elevators standing at the door, facing the other people and making eye contact.
I don't mind making a spectacle of myself, so I didn't find it difficult to do, but it was uncomfortable and felt really odd doing it, knowing that you're breaking unwritten rules and making other people uncomfortable. I still remember the strange feeling of doing it 15 years later.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I loved the experiment where you had to find the invisible edge of the bubble of someones personal space. Once you find it, if you are subtle, you can actually steer them around a room without them realizing it. Not fast, but they do move in a predictable manner as long as you don't get too close or move suddenly.
Of course, if you aren't subtle enough you get punched.
It's also an uncomfortable way to find out someone likes you, because they don't move....they think you are trying to kiss them, and they move closer. All of the sudden YOU are the one steered...and there is nothing subtle about it. Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Yeah, I know why I'd feel sick doing that:
I'd feel like I was deceiving the person, cause the only real reason to ask someone for a seat is if you're worried about your ability to stand. If you ask I feel like it'd be assumed you have reason to ask and so someone should say yes. But then you're very much in the wrong for asking if you don't have a reason.
Interesting experiment... I guess. This is the kinda psych experiment that makes me cry bull at a lot of psychology research in general. Cause this doesn't really teach us much, other than what a little thought experiment and common sense should tell you.
[ January 04, 2008, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Alcon ]
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:I loved the experiment where you had to find the invisible edge of the bubble of someones personal space. Once you find it, if you are subtle, you can actually steer them around a room without them realizing it. Not fast, but they do move in a predictable manner as long as you don't get too close or move suddenly.
Of course, if you aren't subtle enough you get punched. [Smile]
Now that's a worthwhile and entertaining lab activity. Not sure I'd call it much of an experiment Hilarious though.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: In my college psych class, we had an assignment to ride elevators standing at the door, facing the other people and making eye contact.
I do that for fun already.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I have a friend who used to get onto crowded elevator, turn around, say, "Well, I guess you're wondering why I called you all here today," and then hop off the very next time the door opened.
Posted by Astaril (Member # 7440) on :
My favourite thing about Vancouver is how no one sits at the front of the bus unless they really need to sit. Almost everyone I ever saw there would stand rather than take those 'priority seats' without need. It has the best bus etiquette of any city I've ever been in.
Any time I have my ankle taped up for dance (tendinitis) and get on a bus, it amazes me how many people notice and offer up their seats for me. I never accept unless I really need to, but all the same, the offering makes me like city people a bit more.
Megan, that's hilarious!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:From his own discomfort, Dr. Milgram sensed import. He had garnered notoriety several years earlier for a series of experiments in which test subjects were asked to administer what they thought were powerful electric shocks to fellow students. A stunning number did, a revelation in the power of authority.
I saw the name Milgram and wondered if they were going to bring that up.
I think the main value of these experiments is to open up students of psychology to awareness of invisible or unwritten principles that govern behavior. But I don't really see it as flying a kit in a thunderstorm - if that even really happened. I don't think any amazing discoveries that will change the world will come of this. It's just interesting is all.
Posted by Starsnuffer (Member # 8116) on :
I think that personal bubble thing is really interesting.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
When I was on my mission in Portugal, I'd bumped my head (hard), then had a long day with too little to eat, and then a long train ride. I thought I was going to throw up or pass out, but one of the hardest things I'd ever done was ask someone if I could sit in her seat. The lady got up with great haste. Umm, I think I probably looked about as bad as I felt and she was afraid of what would happen if I didn't sit!
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
So pooka, do you think Milgram's original study was interesting enough that it's a good thing he did it? It was one of the ones we debated being unethical because of the level of distress it caused the participants.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I didn't mean to mark Milgrams more infamous experiments as valuable. I meant the bus seat ones.
The Life of Pi discusses flight distance and taming at some length.
SPOILERS
. . . . . . . . Of course I don't know what was real or not in that book. Unreliable narrator and whatnot. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . But the parts about animal behavior in the first third seemed legit.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Milgram's experiments were an effort to explore Nazi behavior, apparently:
quote:The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised the experiments to answer this question: "Could it be that Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?"[3]
also:
quote:The Milgram Experiment raised questions about the ethics of scientific experimentation because of the extreme emotional stress suffered by the participants. In Milgram's defense, 84 percent of former participants surveyed later said they were "glad" or "very glad" to have participated, 15 percent chose neutral responses (92% of all former participants responding).[9] Many later wrote expressing thanks. Milgram repeatedly received offers of assistance and requests to join his staff from former participants. Six years later (at the height of the Vietnam War), one of the participants in the experiment sent correspondence to Milgram, explaining why he was glad to have participated despite the stress: ". . . . I am fully prepared to go to jail if I am not granted Conscientious Objector status."
[ January 05, 2008, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Interesting note about people's personal bubbles: they only extend out in front of them. Stand face-to-face with someone and you'll notice the comfort bubble. Take one foot back to a 90 degree angle (so you're not facing them) and the discomfort is gone, even though you're still right next to them. My friend showed me this from his teaching methods class. When you want to be an authority, you face them head on, when you want to help them, you always work from the side.
Maybe that's obvious to some people, but I thought it was cool.
About subway etiquette--I was very ignorant of it when I moved to Boston. It took months before I caught on to some stuff (like waiting for the train to stop before going for the door, pole-hugging, and door-blocking). I really wish it wasn't so quiet, though. There's so many pretty girls that I want to just say "hi" to, but I'd be breaking the silence law, and I'd come off as a creep.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Interesting note about people's personal bubbles: they only extend out in front of them. Stand face-to-face with someone and you'll notice the comfort bubble. Take one foot back to a 90 degree angle (so you're not facing them) and the discomfort is gone, even though you're still right next to them. My friend showed me this from his teaching methods class. When you want to be an authority, you face them head on, when you want to help them, you always work from the side.
Yes! I learned this at a workshop early last year, and it's been really helpful for me. I've always been somewhat socially awkward and I've had to learn certain things explicitly that many (most?) people do automatically.
quote:About subway etiquette--I was very ignorant of it when I moved to Boston. It took months before I caught on to some stuff (like waiting for the train to stop before going for the door, pole-hugging, and door-blocking). I really wish it wasn't so quiet, though. There's so many pretty girls that I want to just say "hi" to, but I'd be breaking the silence law, and I'd come off as a creep.
I call bull. I've had conversations with girls I didn't know on the T. The "silence law" can even work to your advantage: you're the one guy who has the confidence to talk to these girls. Also, it is flattering to the girl (you think she is attractive/interesting enough to be worth breaking social barriers). If you are your normal self, you're unlikely to come off as a creep, especially if you pay attention to things like the personal bubble stuff.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
What I found interesting about the bubble experiments were how much the bubble varied in size, and how the size carried depending on your relationship to the person. It doesn't vary as much as you might guess.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I think personal bubbles can be all the way around. I've got a co-worker who is very wary of people invading her personal space, and it kind of creeps me out for someone to be standing right behind me when I'm at my desk. We both like our space.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I don't think you could perform the subway experiment in Atlanta, unless you only had guys asking. Just about any time I ride, (which admittedly isn't very often) someone offers me their seat.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I think I'm glad not to have been a student in Milgram's classes.
(Just hypothetically- I'm not old enough to have been such a student.)
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
People interested in the personal space bubble might want to check out The Body has a Mind of its Own. I haven't read it myself, but I heard an interview with the authors on NPR and thought it was pretty interesting.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Hilarious though.