1.)Know the boyfriend. 2.)Like the girlfriend. 3.)Girlfriend likes you back.
Is it, in your opinion, acceptable to take the girl?
Let me make this clear, the girl and I are extremely close. We tell each other our deepest darkest secrets and we've made ourselves vulnerable to the other person many times before. We really trust each other and if it were possible to explain how good a match we are to each other in a few short sentences I would do so, but you will just have to trust me when I say that it isn't just infatuation.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I think if you think of her as something to be taken she's better off without you...
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
It's never just infatuation until it is.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Hear hear. I don't think it's acceptable to think that this is entirely your decision. I also don't think that it's fair to do that to the boyfriend, especially if you are good friends with him. It's not up to you. If the girlfriend wants to stop dating her boyfriend and start dating you, that's her decision. But it's not your decision. You can tell her how you feel, sure. But don't expect that she's just going to drop her boyfriend for you.
Posted by Starsnuffer (Member # 8116) on :
Well, it sounds, at least partially, as if he's debating whether it's ok to propose to the girl if SHE wants to come try this new, and purportedly better, relationship with Soapy there. He doesn't sound terribly objectifying...
On topic: I'm generally against "taking" someone else's significant other (or.. semi-significant other I guess would be better term for bf/gf at least here it sounds). I really don't think what we say will have any basis on what you do. It's an inexplicable topic. I'm stopping now
Posted by RackhamsRazor (Member # 5254) on :
I would side with the "it is very unacceptable" side. If you "take" this girl then you are stepping over the line with the current boyfriend. In addition, you would be asking this girl to potentially cheat on her boyfriend (unless she willingly breaks up with him). I would say it is wrong, but nothing anyone says on here will likely change the situation and what you choose to do.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I think if you think of her as something to be taken she's better off without you...
Whoops, he wrote the wrong word. This obviously means our ocular irritant of a friend and this girl can't have a meaningful relationship. Genius.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
As of late, I've been a big fan of full disclosure. Trying to be sneaky seems to bring more trouble than it can prevent. I would say to talk to the girl first and see if it's mutual. If so, then talk to the boyfriend (alone would probably be better).
If it were my situation, I wouldn't tell him straight off that she likes you back (if that ends up being the case). First you wanna see his reaction when you say you like her. If he flips out, then at least you haven't actually DONE anything to make the situation worse, and you can likely calm him down, and the worst that happens is awkward moments when all of you are together. If he keeps his head about it though, then you tell him that she also likes you and that you want to see each other. Once again, wait for his reaction. If you're still good by this point, then all three of you need to discuss it together and establish if there can be a remaining friendship among you.
The point of this approach is to soften the blows against the boyfriend's pride as much as possible. If you spring this whole thing on him at once (say, you go with her behind his back and he catches you), then it's gonna hit hard and his first reaction is likely to be irrational.
Of course, all of this is based on some incomplete information and a few assumptions. First is that you're FRIENDS with the boyfriend and not just some guy you know. Second is that the boyfriend is a reasonable guy who will even let you finish your first sentence (I know a few that would flip out at the mere MENTION of something like this).
If you don't really know the guy that well, then your best bet is to talk with the girlfriend and just wait. If she likes you so much more than him, then it shouldn't take too horribly long for him to be out of the picture.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:I think if you think of her as something to be taken she's better off without you...
You know, this is the kind of sentiment that gets a lot of mileage but I think is overused. Given the other things he said, kq, don't you think it's unlikely he views her as an object or a conquest?
Is it impossible to use the word 'take' in this context without alluding to some deeper possessive sexism? I don't think so, because I've never met a couple who didn't have at least some hints of 'ownership' in their relationship. It's a byproduct of monogamy.
Haven't you ever said, "This is my husband," after all? What, he's yours?!
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I really wish I had posted this thread about 6 months ago, but I kind of felt uncomfortable since I didn't really know you guys as well back then, and even though I haven't opened myself up since then, I know that this is probably as good a chance as I will get.
Well, basically this is what happened:
I chose to simply wait for the girl and the guy to break up, which they did. They did it on the last day of school, right before summer started. Over the summer me and her started coming real close to nurturing a relationship until one day she invited me to the pool. It just so happened that the moment we arrived together at the pool, her ex-boyfriend and one of his pals arrived as well. The guy was a wreck and of course I felt guilty. I felt so guilty that I just stopped calling her because what I had been doing felt so wrong.
Long story short: The girl and me were still execptionally close but her guyfriend fell in love with her and she didn't want to hurt his feelings so they started dating again. I apoligized for not calling her, explaining why. Towards December she started feeling depressed and stopped going to school. She was threatening to hurt herself and her twin sister was telling me that she was unhappy with her guyfriend. During this period I called her everyday but she never responded. She came back to school and since then I have been basically cut out of her life. When I see her she smiles at me and maintains eye contact, so I don't think she's mad, but I feel like I lost her .
Moral of the story: If you're ever in the situation I was in, go for the girl.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:If the girlfriend wants to stop dating her boyfriend and start dating you, that's her decision.
This is a different issue, and I think it's an interesting one. Obviously it is ultimately her decision, but what is the thing to do here?
Is it the right thing to do to approach her and say, "This is how I feel," and then simply leave it at that? Hell, that's not a very effective persuasive technique. They're not married, they're dating. While I think it would be wrong to try and convince her to cheat on her boyfriend with you, trying to persuade her to become your boyfriend and no longer his is a different thing, and depending on how strongly you feel, you should perhaps do it.
I'd be amazed if it wasn't very messy, though:)
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
If the girl willingly breaks up with her former boyfriend then I see nothing wrong with it. It's her decision and if she likes you more than her current boyfriend then it would probably be worse if she didn't breakup. That said, don't let her cheat on her boyfriend with you (would you want a girlfriend who is willing to cheat on her boyfriend?).
Also, I don't know how close you are with the boyfriend but its sort of taboo to go out with a friend's ex (at least where I live).
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:I think if you think of her as something to be taken she's better off without you...
You know, this is the kind of sentiment that gets a lot of mileage but I think is overused. Given the other things he said, kq, don't you think it's unlikely he views her as an object or a conquest?
Is it impossible to use the word 'take' in this context without alluding to some deeper possessive sexism? I don't think so, because I've never met a couple who didn't have at least some hints of 'ownership' in their relationship. It's a byproduct of monogamy.
Haven't you ever said, "This is my husband," after all? What, he's yours?!
He is mine. I paid for him, fair and square.
No, seriously, the whole tone of his post screamed that he was not taking her feelings into consideration when asking the question to me. I may have been wrong, but that's how the post felt to me. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm always of the opinion that if she'll leave someone else for you, she'll leave you for someone else.
Which is why it drives me nuts when guys continue to make attempts at romantically pursuing me after finding out I'm in a relationship.
-pH
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
I'd want to be left for someone else if the person I was with thought he would have a better relationship with the other person. I'd actually prefer to be left before the attraction between my boyfriend and another girl culminated in an immediate jump from me to her.
This is NOT because I'm some sort of martyr who wants to sacrifice her own happiness but because I wouldn't want to be with someone who was staying with me out of an imaginary obligation.
There is an obligation in relationships, but it's not that kind of obligation to me. I would not, for example, pursue someone else or want to be pursued while in a relationship, and I would expect a boyfriend to do and feel the same.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: I'm always of the opinion that if she'll leave someone else for you, she'll leave you for someone else.
That is not always true...maybe not even mostly true.
There is a difference between dating and being in love, although it isn't always a clear line.
After all, most of us are not our spouses first relationship...nor are they ours.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea:
quote:Originally posted by pH: I'm always of the opinion that if she'll leave someone else for you, she'll leave you for someone else.
That is not always true...maybe not even mostly true.
There is a difference between dating and being in love, although it isn't always a clear line.
After all, most of us are not our spouses first relationship...nor are they ours.
Yes, but there's a huge difference between breaking up with someone because it's not working out and breaking up with someone specifically FOR SOMEONE ELSE. I think the latter implies that there was emotional infidelity during the first relationship.
-pH
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Soap, let it go. Free yourself up so you can move on. Plow all your hard-earned experience into a book, and let your hero do all the sighing. You're in this situation in part because you handle relationships like I do, and I can tell you that, based on what you've revealed here, if you keep pressing you're in for pain and embarrassment. Give yourself a modicum of control and freedom by letting it go.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Traditional dating relationships are, by their very nature, temporary. Either you end up getting married or breaking it off. They're not supposed to last forever.
There's nothing inherently tragic with a dating relationship ending, and nothing inherently wrong with facilitating the end of a dating relationship. While I never did such a thing, I don't think that it's necessarily wrong to pursue a relationship with somebody who is currently in another one.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I think it's wrong. It makes me really uncomfortable to be the object of that kind of pursuit. I think that one should decide on one's own that a relationship isn't working because of factors already within the relationship. Other people chasing after you shouldn't be a part of it.
It would be different if it was casual dating. In a casual dating situation, it would be okay. In a relationship, no.
-pH
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
I've never understood the whole "casual dating" thing.
But then, I suppose us geeks/nerds pursue relationships a bit differently than the rest of the world.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:I think if you think of her as something to be taken she's better off without you...
You know, this is the kind of sentiment that gets a lot of mileage but I think is overused. Given the other things he said, kq, don't you think it's unlikely he views her as an object or a conquest?
Is it impossible to use the word 'take' in this context without alluding to some deeper possessive sexism? I don't think so, because I've never met a couple who didn't have at least some hints of 'ownership' in their relationship. It's a byproduct of monogamy.
Haven't you ever said, "This is my husband," after all? What, he's yours?!
He is mine. I paid for him, fair and square.
No, seriously, the whole tone of his post screamed that he was not taking her feelings into consideration when asking the question to me. I may have been wrong, but that's how the post felt to me.
Not to harp, but this is the second time I've seen you immediately jump on a guy's case about not caring about the girl's feelings, when I think the thread is really more about try to figure out how he feels...
And anyway, what would you know about the girl's feelings? Nothing, right? And thus, why would he ask you about her feelings?
Besides, he said the girl "likes him back," which, in the context of the situation, would mean she likes him and not just "he's alright." If she really feels that way, then what else is there to ask or ponder about than "go for it, or don't go for it"?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think after they broke up it probably would have been okay to seek a relationship. It IS a bit taboo to date the ex of a good friend, but I also think there are exceptions to every rule.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Celaeno: I'd want to be left for someone else if the person I was with thought he would have a better relationship with the other person. I'd actually prefer to be left before the attraction between my boyfriend and another girl culminated in an immediate jump from me to her.
Absolutely. I'm very, very big on my partner being with me because I'm exactly who they want to be with, and I generally prefer to date people who have enough confidence in themselves and respect for both themselves and for me that they wouldn't basically be settling for me until someone better came along.
quote:I would not, for example, pursue someone else or want to be pursued while in a relationship...[/QB]
It really doesn't occur to me to pursue people that are already in a relationship. If they're involved, something below the level of consciousness just marks them as off limits. I've been pursued a couple of times when I was in a relationship, and was incredibly uncomfortable with it. If I'm with somebody, it's because they, in particular, are who I want to be with. I'm really not going to be open to anyone else's advances, and I'm not going to appreciate the awkwardness of dealing with them.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
One of the things that people don't always understand on a conscious level is that simply being in a relationship makes you more attractive to the opposite sex. Just the fact that another human being considers you dating material is social validation.
[ January 14, 2008, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: El JT de Spang ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: One of the things that people don't always understand on a conscious level is that simply [i]being[/] in a relationship makes you more attractive to the opposite sex. Just the fact that another human being considers you dating material is social validation.
Or, as I've heard it put, desirability is inversely proportional to availability.
It's not very healthy, but it's terribly common.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by rollainm: I've never understood the whole "casual dating" thing.
But then, I suppose us geeks/nerds pursue relationships a bit differently than the rest of the world.
It's not a geek/nerd thing. I'm as geeky/nerdy as the next Hatracker, and I did quite a bit of casual dating.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Okay. How about "socially awkward"?
By the way, the comment wasn't intended to be condescending. I wasn't implying there's something morally wrong with casual dating. It's genuinely a very foreign concept to me.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: One of the things that people don't always understand on a conscious level is that simply being in a relationship makes you more attractive to the opposite sex. Just the fact that another human being considers you dating material is social validation.
Or, as I've heard it put, desirability is inversely proportional to availability.
It's not very healthy, but it's terribly common.
I don't even think it's particulary unhealthy. I think it's unhealthy to be only interested in people in relationships, but I think it's perfectly normal to be more attracted to someone in a relationship. For the reason I mentioned and the reason you mentioned.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:It's not a geek/nerd thing. I'm as geeky/nerdy as the next Hatracker, and I did quite a bit of casual dating.
Yes, but you're a suave geek/nerd. I attribute this to a favorable mutation of the savoir faire gland. That and diet.
[Edited to tinker a bit with The Funny]
[ January 14, 2008, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Noemon, we really need to meet, because you have some serious misconceptions about me.
BTW: What's your facial hair situation right now? The old meme of one of us being the other's evil twin came up during Billtmas in December, but we didn't know who got to be the evil twin, because we didn't know what facial hair you currently have.
For me, I've had a full bead for the last six months.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Noemon, we really need to meet, because you have some serious misconceptions about me.
I don't actually think that that applies to you (although a person might, were they just going off of what you've said here and that picture bev posted of you a few years back)--I'm just a sucker for The Funny.
quote:BTW: What's your facial hair situation right now? The old meme of one of us being the other's evil twin came up during Billtmas in December, but we didn't know who got to be the evil twin, because we didn't know what facial hair you currently have.
For me, I've had a full bead for the last six months.
Hmmm...I *also* have a full beard! Mine's pretty closely trimmed, though; my avatars on sake and EI reflect its current state pretty well. Does this mean that we're both evil, and that there is a good triplet (or a pair--we could be quadruplets) running around somewhere, or is it that whichever of us has the longer beard is the evil one?
[Edit--but yeah, I agree; it's high time that we met.]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: One of the things that people don't always understand on a conscious level is that simply being in a relationship makes you more attractive to the opposite sex. Just the fact that another human being considers you dating material is social validation.
Or, as I've heard it put, desirability is inversely proportional to availability.
It's not very healthy, but it's terribly common.
I don't even think it's particulary unhealthy. I think it's unhealthy to be only interested in people in relationships, but I think it's perfectly normal to be more attracted to someone in a relationship. For the reason I mentioned and the reason you mentioned.
I was saying that the law of inverses can be unhealthy, not that being more attracted to folks in relationships is unhealthy.
While people seem to follow that law to some extent some of the time, if you follow it too much, it's pretty much impossible to have healthy, normal relationships.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Ah. Okay, then.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
For some people, there actually is an element of social validation in the fact that someone else considers your prospective interest dating material. I've met guys like this; they think, "If no one else is interested in her, people will think I'm not cool if [i]I'm[i/] interested in her." It boggles my mind, but it does happen.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: I'm always of the opinion that if she'll leave someone else for you, she'll leave you for someone else.
Which is why it drives me nuts when guys continue to make attempts at romantically pursuing me after finding out I'm in a relationship.
-pH
See, unless there is marriage involved, I am okay with this. So long as everyone is honest about it.
I wouldn't want a guy threatening my boyfriend or doing anything sneaky, but if a guy I knew had strong feelings for me to the point where they wanted to be with me, etc, I would be okay with them coming to me and saying something along the lines of "I respect it is your decision, but this is how I feel about you, and if your situation changes, here I am."
I am okay with this mostly because how many of us dated just one person and they ended up being your True and everything was happily ever after? It may happen, but rarely.
In other words, be bold, just don't be skanky or trifling.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: I think it's wrong. It makes me really uncomfortable to be the object of that kind of pursuit. I think that one should decide on one's own that a relationship isn't working because of factors already within the relationship. Other people chasing after you shouldn't be a part of it.
It would be different if it was casual dating. In a casual dating situation, it would be okay. In a relationship, no.
-pH
And while I get what you are saying, and half way agree, sometimes it is meeting someone with different qualities that helps clarify what is working/not working in your relationship. Yeah, there are some crappy people that just want to have their cake and eat it, too; and the grass is always greener, etc... But that isn't always the case.
In most cases, there will always be someone else-- eventually if not immediately. I agree that ending a relationship just to be with someone else is jarring, and often sheisty. That's why I'm all for breaking up as soon as possible.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It boggles my mind that anybody would pick who do date according to what dating them would do to their image. I've seen far too many guys who were unwilling to date a girl who weighs too much because they were afraid of being mocked for dating a "fat chick".
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That kind of thing mattered to me when I was 14, but then I grew up.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
My best dating rule is don't date anyone who is more messed up than you are. A relationship can only be as healthy as the most messed up member - so don't go looking for trouble.
In other words, if this girl is skipping school and threatening to hurt herself, you are better off finding a nice girl who doesn't have severe problems she needs to work through.
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
For the same reason (that a relationship can only be as healthy as the most messed up member), my best dating rule is to not be the more messed up person.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
A perfect match! Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: In other words, if this girl is skipping school and threatening to hurt herself, you are better off finding a nice girl who doesn't have severe problems she needs to work through.
The thing is, she is such a nice girl besides all of that. I have literally hung out with her for days at a time and I can safely say that I've never heard her spread rumours or really be mean in any way. Every other girl I hang around, and believe it or not I hang out with a lot of them, just doesn't measure up to her.
I'm sure you know what I mean when I say that some girls get mad and some girls get sad when people disappoint them. She gets sad because she's had bad experiences out of relationships like this. I tried to show her how much I loved her but it can be hard on both people when you don't see that person for long periods of time.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
If it makes you feel better, Soap, patience worked for me. Back in high school, I had a major crush on my now-fiancee. At the time, he had a girlfriend. We had a class together and I flirted shamelessly whenever I could. I dated a few other guys, but when he was single about a year later, I broke up with his best friend. Thank God the best friend was cool with it or that would have been weird. I was never subtle about my crush, though.
If it's going to work out, it'll work out just as well a year from now. In the mean time, have some fun and try to work back up to friendship. If you can. I have guy friends I really can't hang out with because they're a little obvious in their intentions. If she's serious about this guy, she just can't threaten that.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:It would be different if it was casual dating. In a casual dating situation, it would be okay. In a relationship, no.
I agree. A relationship should end because it stops meeting one or both parties' needs. Bringing a third party in to that decision is tantamount to cheating in my mind. Sometimes meeting new people can help you realize what you're missing, but there's a big difference between breaking up to date somebody else and breaking up because you've been awakened to what's lacking in your relationship.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Soap: Showing a girl how much you love her won't make her love you, and won't fix her problems. I wasted a lot of time in HS going after "fixer-upper" girls, and wish someone would have told me to just go after a nice girl who liked me back, instead of trying to make one like me.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Soap: Showing a girl how much you love her won't make her love you, and won't fix her problems. I wasted a lot of time in HS going after "fixer-upper" girls, and wish someone would have told me to just go after a nice girl who liked me back, instead of trying to make one like me.
See I wasted all my energy wooing a girl who had a mother complex for a broken friend of hers.
All it did was make me feel like a basket case because she liked this moron instead of me and therefore I figured I must be more screwed up than he.
I loved High School, but I am quite glad I grew out of that phase.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
.![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)