Some time ago Hatrack was discussing what our roles would be if say in a post apocheliptic world the Hatrack community got together and formed their own community, the discussion quickly devolved into a discussion of whether the Smurf lifestyle was ethical and some rather rude comparisons to baby eating were made.
So I'm thinking, why not try to write a book about it for fun? With the cast composed entirely of Hatrack screennames although everyone is there "in person" I think it would be funner if everyone went by and answered to their online personas.
However this leads me to two questions, firstly it seems custamary to describe people eye colour, hair colour, facial features etc since I know asking for pictures would be a subtle violation of privacy and that I've only found 19 of you on facebook I wonder if it would be too much for those interested to give a physical description of yourself, you dont even have to be factually correct think of it as an excersize in creative writing worst case Ill google your name, check Hatrack to confirm your gender and use the first picture I find thats within a margin of error near a mention to Hatrack or Sakeriver.
Then there's the second problem, suspension of disbelief, and I cant wrack my head around how can I plausibly describe 1000-2000 Hatrack members winding up within 30 km of each other?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
First of all, some authors, including OSC, often give practically no physical description at all.
Second of all, if you're going to be writing people into a novel, it really would be polite to get their permission first.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Only write about the nice stuff I do Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
The first problem is not a problem -- you don't HAVE to describe a single thing about a character's physical appearance if you don't want to.
The second problem is easy to answer -- we're all at an Endercon together, when suddenly aliens come, abduct the entire building with us inside it, only to run out of fuel halfway out of Earth's atmosphere, and dump us all on a deserted island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. (with the building)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I thinks its rather silly to be worked up over whether to ask for permission or not about writing about largely anomynous online personas.
Just so you know I have written a book before, "An Everlasting Quest" not published, I was in grade 8 at the time based off of the online fantasy personas of me and my friends when playing Everquest.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I already answer to "kq" or "ketchupqueen" in real life. Occasionally, anyway.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I thinks its rather silly to be worked up over whether to ask for permission or not about writing about largely anomynous online personas.
Which is why you're the wrong person for the job. It's a bad idea.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I promise you that there will be people in this community who will be upset if you write them into a novel without asking permission.
Whether it's silly or not is irrelevant -- it will bother some here.
And now that you know that, you must either decide to purposely step on other people's toes or not to do so.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'll get to answering that question when it is time to publish, although I would like to ask you how I would go about emailing 5000 members of a forum.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I'll get to answering that question when it is time to publish, although I would like to ask you how I would go about emailing 5000 members of a forum.
Reason #2 why you're not the person for the job. That question should come first, not last.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It will bother people to have you write them into a novel without asking permission.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
Perhaps more to the point, it will bother people to have you write them into a novel.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Yes, well,. . . I think it's a bad idea in general. For an unpublished writer who thinks asking permission is silly--no way.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
And let's not forget that the premise in itself is both unwieldy and largely unsellable. You want to write a book about the interactions of people on a forum? I could see ways to make that viable. You want to throw in some homages to Hatrack, okay--get permission, though. But to try to write an entire forum just because you feel like it? It's not gonna work.
And if you by some insane dint of effort succeed in making such a literary monster, and you include me in it, I will be the first to find some way to sue you for mis-portrayal of my character.
Oh, and one last thing--I shudder to think of the state of your literary endeavors when the post suggesting such a thing includes such offenses against the English Language as the word "funner".
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Whether or not it works or not doesn't really matter -- sometimes it's fun to do something just to do something, and I can see how this would be fun.
But if you do, you'll be deliberately offending people.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the word "funner".
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Human: . . .I will be the first to find some way to sue you for mis-portrayal of my character.
"I am not an elephant! I am not an animal! I am Human! I am a man!"
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
How do we opt out?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Not to mention apocheliptic.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: But if you do, you'll be deliberately offending people.
This would be the real crux of the matter. Though if prior evidence tells us anything, it's that Blayne doesn't much care about that.
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the word "funner".
I see nothing wrong with it used in a casual context, or in an ironic or otherwise humorous way. However, in a declaration of how one wants to undertake a semi-serious, fairly large-scale act of writing, the un-ironic use of what is technically not a word in the English language tends to suggest a rather gaping lack of the rudimentary qualifications for writing anything at a level above that of third grade, or some internet fan-fiction..
Or, in shorter words so that the author of this thread can understand me: If you can't even find the right words for "more fun" then you don't need to be writing a book.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Seeing as how this thing would never see the light of day, and that my possible inclusion (via screen name) in Blayne's novel would be tenuous in a representational sense, it's not a huge concern of mine.
Now, if what he writes ends up being wildly inappropriate and he decides to share it publicly, that's a different story.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I do not want myself written into a book. ESPECIALLY by someone who does not know me well.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared: Now, if what he writes ends up being wildly inappropriate and he decides to share it publicly, that's a different story.
See, this is my fear. Think of the kinds of things he posts on here, when he's asked not to. It will probably get posted SOMEwhere on the internet.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Maybe if he was selective with the names. I can't imagine if a character named "Tinros" did anything terrible, that it would damage your offline moral character.
Other posters here, on the other hand, could be. So overall, it probably isn't a good idea.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I already answer to "kq" or "ketchupqueen" in real life. Occasionally, anyway.
Even though I knew your actual name, I had to consciously stop myself from calling you "kqueen" when we met. And not just once, but every time I addressed you.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ditto-- I kept restraining myself from saying "eros", which the other people in IKEA might have found weird.
Luckily the person I see most from Hatrack (other than my family) is rivka, so no problems there. (I probably talk more to Boon but we've moved into a phase where I do not generally think of her by her screenname. Actually I think of rivka as Rivka, not rivka, too. But since they're pronounced the same it doesn't really matter, does it? )
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
obviosuly I have no influence over what people do at home, but i wouldn't like it.
it's like you ask someone not to pray for you and they do anyway. rude.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I hereby grant Blayne Bradley (hereafter referred to as "the author") permission to use the undersigned's screen name (Juxtapose) or any reasonable abbreviation in any fictional story (hereafter referred to as "the manuscript") based entirely, or in part, on the Hatrack River online forum (hereafter referred to as "the forum"), should the Author abide by the terms and conditions laid down in this post.
Terms and Conditions:
1) This agreement shall not be construed as permission to use the name "Hatrack River", "Hatrack", "HatCrack" nor any other copywrited phrase or image associated with the forum, nor shall it be construed as approval, tacit or explicit of any product of the author.
2) Upon completion of the manuscript, the author shall provide the undersigned, via email, with one (1) complete copy of the manuscript.
3) Should the author fail to add any physical substance to the manuscript for a consecutive period of two (2) weeks, the author shall provide the undersigned, via email, with one (1) copy of the manuscript in its current form. The author shall not, under any circumstances, resume work on the manuscript.
4) Upon publication of the manuscript for retail distribution, the author shall provide one (1) hardback copy of the first printing of the first edition. On the inside of the front cover, the author shall write by hand, in a loose flowing script, "To Juxtapose, without whom this book would never exist, me luv u long time. love, Blayne PS. Yes, MY mom".
I agree to the terms and conditions listed.
Juxtapose
Online Signature: X
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Blayne, dear, feel free to create a fictional character named "Tante Shvester" (by the way, in real life, I am called "Tante" by my nephews, and "Shvester" by some of my friends). You can portray me as a mean low down, conniving weasel, if you like. I won't mind. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. You'll probably need a proofreader, since spelling and the like aren't your strong suit. If you can't find one by you, you can email me each chapter as you finish it, and I'll proofread it for you. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with.
It would be a real kick if you came up with something really awesome and made the whole Hatrack crowd envious of your success. I'd love to see that happen.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kama: obviosuly I have no influence over what people do at home, but i wouldn't like it.
it's like you ask someone not to pray for you and they do anyway. rude.
Or you ask someone not to pray for you, and they pray for you out loud in church for everyone to hear.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
I will onlly consent to my name being used under the condidtion that when the movie is made, I get to go to the opening in Cannes or LA.
Other than that I am willing to with Blayne collaberate at every level. My vanity is such that any reference to anti_maven outside of my own posts makes me skwee with joy.
*pops another prozac*
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
You cannot possibly make me look worse than I already have in other online venues, so go ahead and mock me. I don't care.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
Well..... On the other hand, i think it's a good idea, it may be my effinity for post-apoctalipic worlds, or my wanting to be in a book, but if you need a hyper-intelligent teenager who becomes the hero in the end. I'm all up for it.
Or, you could write me like an egosistical maniac. Either way i think it is a good idea.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: I do not want myself written into a book. ESPECIALLY by someone who does not know me well.
Indeed.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
blayne's serializing us so that the people he dislikes can get shot or stabbed or something, I bet.
I will read it, however, as I am a huge fan of comedy.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
If this ever goes anywhere, I imagine Blayne will write himself in as the hero of the story (with sunglasses and all).
I wonder who the villain will be? Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I will freely waive any objections to being in this book if Blayne agrees to name his character Mary Sue (or knowing him, probably something more like Mray Sue)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Blayne, as tempting as it might be to write up something like this, using virtual people as templates, why don't you spend the time making up your OWN characters?
As one author to another, that's bound to be much more productive, and you're not as likely to tick people off. I mean, you may still tick people off, but they won't know if you're DELIBERATELY writing to them to tick them off.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I would not like to be included. "Eaquae Legit" has been my name online for 6 years, and it's become part of me. I use it in a lot of places. No one else has it, and it's very distinctive. Writing "Eaquae Legit" into a story would feel like nearly as much violation as writing my real name in, and would in fact identify me, specifically, much faster than using my real name would. I'm just not very comfortable with that. Especially since it would probably get publicised somewhere on the web.
So please don't include me.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Human:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the word "funner".
I see nothing wrong with it used in a casual context, or in an ironic or otherwise humorous way. However, in a declaration of how one wants to undertake a semi-serious, fairly large-scale act of writing, the un-ironic use of what is technically not a word in the English language...
According to Merriam-Webster, it's been part of the English language at least since 1846.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I find it hilarious that people who largely don't use their real names, don't know anyone in real life outside of the forum, and don't tell enough about themselves to make a convincing characterization (the real problem with the idea IMO) are making a stink about getting included in a novel.
Use me. I don't care. This is not the real me.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:I wonder who the villain will be?
A man in a sombrero.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
*confused* Then why did I have it repeatedly beaten into my head that "funner" was not an acceptable substitute for "more fun"?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
The entry is actually referring to the word fun, with funner as an inflective form. I think that means the word fun has been a word since then.
Ain't is in there too, but that doesn't make it a proper word, or more precisely proper English.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I find it hilarious that people who largely don't use their real names, don't know anyone in real life outside of the forum, and don't tell enough about themselves to make a convincing characterization (the real problem with the idea IMO) are making a stink about getting included in a novel.
This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: I do not want myself written into a book. ESPECIALLY by someone who does not know me well.
Indeed.
Wouldn't it bother you MORE to be written by someone who DID know you well?
Like many people have said, this is never going to be published, people don't use their real names on forums (I presume), and Blayne doesn't know most of of us hardly at all...So just let him have his fun.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Why did you blindly accept the dictates of grammar Nazis as fact?
Do you split your infinitives? Do you end sentences with prepositions? Do you wish I were, instead of wish I was? Do you "properly" distinguish between less and fewer, between lie and lay?
For me: yes, yes, yes, no, no.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: I find it hilarious that people who largely don't use their real names, don't know anyone in real life outside of the forum, and don't tell enough about themselves to make a convincing characterization (the real problem with the idea IMO) are making a stink about getting included in a novel.
Use me. I don't care. This is not the real me.
:uses Occasional and throws him away:
Not even sturdy enough for...(wait for it)...Occasional use.
:cue laughtrack:
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
worst case Ill google your name, check Hatrack to confirm your gender and use the first picture I find thats within a margin of error near a mention to Hatrack or Sakeriver.
P.S...What is this about, though? Googling "Tara" would never in a million years connect to Hatrack, much less connect to a picture of me... And I imagine the same is true for most people here... I don't think Facebook or Myspace pages ever come up in Google results. But, I suppose the point is moot since he doesn't even need pictures of us.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: If this ever goes anywhere, I imagine Blayne will write himself in as the hero of the story (with sunglasses and all).
I wonder who the villain will be?
I want to be a villian!!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: Use me. I don't care. This is not the real me.
That's a shame. Although, it probably explains most of the problems I've had with your posting style.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
"This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection."
Riiiight.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Why did you blindly accept the dictates of grammar Nazis as fact?
Do you split your infinitives? Do you end sentences with prepositions? Do you wish I were, instead of wish I was? Do you "properly" distinguish between less and fewer, between lie and lay?
For me: yes, yes, yes, no, no.
I don't blindly accept the dictates of so-called "Grammar Nazis", however, I know that if I used the word "funner" in a paper, for instance, my professors would tell me to change it. As I said, I have no problems with its use humorously, ironically, or I suppose, colloquially. However, as Kwea said, it doesn't make it proper English. At least a passing knowledge of proper English, I would think, is a requirement for writing any sort of book-length piece of writing--a requirement that Blayne has repeatedly fallen short of.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Googling "Tara" would never in a million years connect to Hatrack, much less connect to a picture of me... And I imagine the same is true for most people here...
That is not true for quite a large number of people here.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: "This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection."
Riiiight.
Who has voiced objection that it does apply to?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
In answer to the request in the original post, I'm ten foot two and have a voice like distant thunder, but the precise details of my appearance are generally obscured by the nimbus of golden light that surrounds me.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Just so you know, my forumese is not my novelese.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: "This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection."
Riiiight.
Your clever and articulate retort has made me realize the error of my original opinion on the subject.
Oh, wait. No it hasn't. I know the real name of most of the people who have voiced objection. I know that several of them have met people here outside the forum. I know all of them well enough to characterize them.
The characterization would be partial, but all characterizations are.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I don't blindly accept the dictates of so-called "Grammar Nazis", however, I know that if I used the word "funner" in a paper, for instance, my professors would tell me to change it. As I said, I have no problems with its use humorously, ironically, or I suppose, colloquially. However, as Kwea said, it doesn't make it proper English.
But none of us are writing papers for college courses here on Hatrack. I see nothing wrong with using the word funner here.
I actually agree with your larger point, but I don't think that his use of the word funner supports it.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: "This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection."
Riiiight.
Wow, and I thought I was a dick.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
mph, the Internet is my playground, my sounding board, whatever. The best that can be said is that it is really what I think, but it is hardly my personality as much as alter-ego. The last place I would give out any information about the real me is where privacy has no existance. And that has more to do with safety issues than the idea that I have anything about me of importance.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: But none of us are writing papers for college courses here on Hatrack. I see nothing wrong with using the word funner here.
I actually agree with your larger point, but I don't think that his use of the word funner supports it.
And that is a point that I will concede.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
Dagonee, does that go for Blayne Bradley with the description? Is he one of the "inner circle" that you describe? If not, then I still find the objections to be silly and self-important.
Am I jerk online? You bet, and I don't care. What are you going to do, ignore me? Write some more words on a computer? Please. I am nothing compared to what exists in other places. I am not even bad enough to get a warning that I might get kicked off the Forum. If you want real jerks, I could probably point you in the right direction. I am just abrasively opinionated.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I, also, do not wish to be included.
Occasional, just because you keep the real you divorced from the forum doesn't mean everyone does. I have met over 100 hatrack users in real life. I have had more than 20 over to my home. Anyone who cares to try can find from my post history where I live to within a few miles, where I work, where I went to school, and many details of my personal life, as well as plenty of pictures of me and my family. This is the real me. And I do not care to have anyone basing a character on me and putting words in my mouth for publication and linking it to me with my name. (My handle is my initials, and my real name has been posted here many times. If my handle was used in a book based on Hatrack, anyone who came to Hatrack to check it out could easily come across my name.) Generally, when one bases characters in a story on exisiting people, one changes the name. Otherwise, it is way to hard to tell what is fiction and what is supposed to be true.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Occasional, Blayne Bradley is Blayne's real name. He lives outside a small town in Quebec. His mother makes ceramics, and he helps out with the family business. He's going to a community collegen type school (the Canadian equivilent) to be a computer programmer, and he tried to join the army a while back but decided it wasn't for him. He has a hard time getting anywhere because his home is a long bus ride from the closest town. He plays a lot of video games, including with King of Men online, and has spoken with at least 5 hatrackers over skype, although I don't believe he's met anyone in person. He's posted several pictures of himself.
Yes, he's part of the circle of people who don't just consider this an alter-ego playground.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Dagonee, does that go for Blayne Bradley with the description? Is he one of the "inner circle" that you describe? If not, then I still find the objections to be silly and self-important.
Of course it applies to him. I know his real name, and lots of details about his life - from the mundane to the tragic - that would allow a decent characterization. I don't know who he's met in real life.
Moreover, this isn't an "inner circle." This information is known to any who choose to read it on the forums. Moreover, many real-life Hatrack gatherings are open invitation, with meeting times and places publicly posted and therefore open to anyone to attend.
Just because you choose to limit your participation here to being an "abrasively opinionated jerk" doesn't mean that others have made the same choice.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Am I jerk online? You bet, and I don't care. What are you going to do, ignore me? Write some more words on a computer?
Occ, You do damage to people's opinions of the things you support and organizations you belong to, in large part because of how you present yourself and your arguments, but to some extent because it is you who support them.
That's what people can do, think less of things because you are associated with them. That's why many of the people who take strongest objection to some of your participation here are more or less on your side on the things you talk about.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Dagonee, does that go for Blayne Bradley with the description? Is he one of the "inner circle" that you describe?
He didn't describe an inner circle.
quote:Am I jerk online? You bet, and I don't care. What are you going to do, ignore me? Write some more words on a computer? Please. I am nothing compared to what exists in other places. I am not even bad enough to get a warning that I might get kicked off the Forum. If you want real jerks, I could probably point you in the right direction. I am just abrasively opinionated.
You are a jerk because you act like a jerk to people (we're actually people here, not just a sounding board), know that you act like a jerk to people, and don't care.
The fact that there are bigger jerks out there doesn't ameliorate it. Neither does the fact that you're a jerk without violating the TOS of this site.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
ElJay, now that I know that information then the objections are even more moot. You are already out there for everyone to see. Although, I admit there is questions of "putting words in your mouth" and a larger audience.
Still, what keeps some random fool from already looking into your life simply because they read what was on Hatack and decided to do a little "research." Didn't you ever learn not to talk to strangers? I am perplexed how easily people make lives on the Internet, ignore the consiquences, and then get all upset if someone thinks of doing something with that information. Besides, I don't think Blayne said anything about actually using real names; although he could have meant using them.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I am perplexed how easily people make lives on the Internet, ignore the consiquences, and then get all upset if someone thinks of doing something with that information.
I would have the exact same objections to a member of a club writing a book about members of that club using the names that the club members use to refer to themselves that I have to the proposed Hatrack book.
There's nothing in the analysis that depends on this being an Internet community rather than one where the interaction occurs in person.
quote:Besides, I don't think Blayne said anything about actually using real names; although he could have meant using them.
That's pretty much irrelevant to any of the objections I have seen.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:ElJay, now that I know that information then the objections are even more moot. You are already out there for everyone to see. Although, I admit there is questions of "putting words in your mouth" and a larger audience.
Forgot to add this part.
This demonstrates that you don't really understand the objections. They aren't about the book possibly putting information out there.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Yes, I'm out here for everyone to see, in my own words. I have no problem with that, and I have no problem with any random fool reading anything I've typed. I haven't put anything here any more dangerous than someone could overhear evesdropping on me and a friend having lunch at a restaurant. This is a similar type of public space.
That doesn't make it okay for Blayne to write a character as me in a novel based on people here. He has said he would use handles, which I pointed out is easily linked to real names in my and many other cases.
There is nothing wrong with using people you know as inspiration. Writing about specific people as themselves is a very different matter. It's something that should not be done without permission, and Blayne doesn't have it.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
"You do damage to people's opinions of the things you support and organizations you belong to, in large part because of how you present yourself, but to some extent because it is you who support them."
Oh yea, Hatrack the World. Like my participation here has damaged the opinions of people enough to make a difference. If there is one thing I have learned is that very few people here have changed their minds about anything. I would like to think I make a difference for good or ill, but I know better. The seriousness that some people make about Hatrack really is starting to be irritating and I am not sure why.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
It's probably that large arthropod you've been sitting on all morning.
Posted by adfectio (Member # 11070) on :
Ignoring everyone bickering on here:
Blayne, if by some long shot you would like to write me in, go for it. I'll even provide you with a picture for accurate description, and a list of things I do not like (It's shorter than the list of things I do).
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:If there is one thing I have learned is that very few people here have changed their minds about anything. I would like to think I make a difference for good or ill, but I know better.
Whereas I know for a fact that I have changed people's minds here, on some very serious issues. I don't know that this was for good or ill, of course.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
Good one pooka.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I have changed my mind on a number of issues.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
quote:Originally posted by adfectio: Ignoring everyone bickering on here:
Blayne, if by some long shot you would like to write me in, go for it. I'll even provide you with a picture for accurate description, and a list of things I do not like (It's shorter than the list of things I do).
yay!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Thank you.
I used to be lukewarm on abortion until discussing it with people on Hatrack. Though I guess it wasn't actually Dagonee that convinced me, it was the blast-ackwardness of people who refused to honor any date of viability that made me see that only "from conception" really means Pro-Life.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Anyway, there was a suggestion back when I was new here of putting some of the landmark posts together in an anthology. I forget what the reception was on that. It seems like it couldn't have been as prevalently negative as response to the idea of a fictionalized story would be.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
haha i found it the thread of all threads for this endeavor.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Blayne, how would you feel if we decided to create a book where each member writes a story specifically about you?
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Thought was a person on the ancient Underage Writer's Forum before it got finally shut down who basically wrote about himself finding a Hat Rack and then coming to the world of Hatrack. It was a well written story- I wonder if anyone still has it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Blayne, how would you feel if we decided to create a book where each member writes a story specifically about you?
It doesn't matter whether he'd be OK with it -- many people here wouldn't be.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:It doesn't matter whether he'd be OK with it -- many people here wouldn't be.
I was actually assuming he would not be OK with it, and therefore might then better understand how other people feel about being written into one of his stories.
Posted by cassv746 (Member # 11173) on :
I don't understand the big deal here in all honesty. If you don't mind him writing you into a story tell him so, and if you do mind tell him not to. Problem solved in my opinion.
Any Blayne, I know I'm not much. But I'm adfectio's girlfriend so you can take that and use it if you want.
Posted by Philosofickle (Member # 10993) on :
Was going to comment, don't want to get dragged into the argument.
*Takes a bow and exits, stage right.
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
Blayne, I think it's a bad idea. If you wish to write a piece of post-apocalyptic fiction centered around an internet web forum, fine. The name Hatrack River is copyrighted, so you'd be in violation of that if you include it without permission (which I sincerely doubt you'd get). I'm no lawyer, but if you use people's real screennames from here (which in some cases are their names), you might be opening yourself up to accusations of libel.
Perhaps you could create a thread where you set the scene, and let people participate as they will. If enough people are interested it will have a life of its own, and people who don't wish to be included need not participate.
--PJ
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I take Occasional's view-- that Hatrack isn't real. It is a virtual place.
I don't believe that I am capable of showing who I really am in a virtual world. There are elements of me here, the way there are elements of me in the fiction I write-- but it's not really me. The virtual me is true, but not complete. I extend those views to all my online relationships.
That is to say, you don't know me.
It is a relationship that is slightly skewed because of the medium through which it is propagated. There is an inherent amount of mistrust in it, which I am comfortable with.
I recognize that other people don't share my feelings about Hatrack's...er...virtuosity; and I try to accommodate their feelings as much as I can by not belittling (or even thinking much about) their relationships to other virtual people. It is not my place-- I don't even think I'm capable-- of judging the depth of someone else's feelings for other people.
I believe it's usually important to be considerate even though this is a virtual world. I can choose to be whoever I want to be-- why not choose to be a generally nice guy who gets along with people?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
People's 'alter egos' reveal far more about themselves than they would often care to admit.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassv746: I don't understand the big deal here in all honesty. If you don't mind him writing you into a story tell him so, and if you do mind tell him not to. Problem solved in my opinion.
Unless, you know, he did use the names/characters of people who told him they didn't want him to.
Posted by cassv746 (Member # 11173) on :
Oh, well then that would explain the problem. That is definitely a "no-no" in my book.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I don't understand the big deal here in all honesty. If you don't mind him writing you into a story tell him so, and if you do mind tell him not to. Problem solved in my opinion.
It wouldn't be that big a deal if Blayne respected others' wishes about it, but so far he's just dismissed other people's concerns. That's the big deal.
----
quote:I take Occasional's view-- that Hatrack isn't real. It is a virtual place.
I don't believe that I am capable of showing who I really am in a virtual world. There are elements of me here, the way there are elements of me in the fiction I write-- but it's not really me. The virtual me is true, but not complete. I extend those views to all my online relationships.
That is to say, you don't know me.
That's true for all mortal relationships. I've been married for ten years, and we're still discovering how much we don't know each other.
I don't think that fact that this interaction takes place over the internet makes it any less "real". Yes, it has different strengths and limitations, but so does every other arena of interaction. Somebody who knows me at church will get to know me in a different manner than somebody who belongs to a club I belong to, but neither relationship is more "real" than the other because of that. They're all incomplete to one degree or another.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: This is the real me.
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: I have changed my mind on a number of issues.
That's not what Xaposert told me.
-Bok
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: "This description doesn't apply to anyone who has voiced objection."
Riiiight.
Wow, and I thought I was a dick.
Like I said before, just because somebody is worse doesn't take anything away from you. :wub:
---
My problem with the "y'all aren't real" paradigm is that it encourages bad behavior. While you tend to be a paragon of civility, Scott, those who consider the other people on the board as "not real" tend to treat those "not real" people poorly.
I am a real person, and I don't appreciate being told that I'm not.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:That is to say, you don't know me.
I'm not sure why I'm fine with someone presenting a nice face at hatrack and not a nasty one. I suppose it's just my personal preference for nice and not nasty.
I think Hatrack is a lot like a magazine. You can read for information, or for entertainment, or for the personal ads and jokes. Except most magazines, if you ask them a question, can't alter their content to give you an answer (or sometimes tell you your question was dumb). I think Hatrack is pretty amazingly cool.
I don't forget that it was once supposed to be OSC's living room. That was two and a half years ago.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon:
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: I have changed my mind on a number of issues.
That's not what Xaposert told me.
-Bok
Xap's exaggerating his point then. He may think I should change my mind more than I have, but he knows as well as I do that Hatrack has altered my thoughts on certain important topics, for better or for worse. Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Blayne, how would you feel if we decided to create a book where each member writes a story specifically about you?
It doesn't matter whether he'd be OK with it -- many people here wouldn't be.
I'ld be thrilled, "hey look, people are writing a book about me!"
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: If there is one thing I have learned is that very few people here have changed their minds about anything. I would like to think I make a difference for good or ill, but I know better.
Sweet sufferin' succubus. Because you've failed, we must be immovable?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Hunnert!
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sid Meier:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Blayne, how would you feel if we decided to create a book where each member writes a story specifically about you?
It doesn't matter whether he'd be OK with it -- many people here wouldn't be.
I'ld be thrilled, "hey look, people are writing a book about me!"
I really doubt you'd be thrilled, especially if you had no control over its contents. I imagine you'd feel the same way as you do when your threads here don't go the way you want them to.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I want to see Blayne write a book in which a curmudgeonly jerk named Occasional finds a soulmate on an Internet forum and learns to love. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Human:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: But if you do, you'll be deliberately offending people.
This would be the real crux of the matter. Though if prior evidence tells us anything, it's that Blayne doesn't much care about that.
That is so not true. If prior evidence tells us anything, it's that the deliberate offense adds spice to it for him.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
What prior evidence? Wasn't it deleted?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I want to see Blayne write a book in which a curmudgeonly jerk named Occasional finds a soulmate on an Internet forum and learns to love.
I smell a CRT-lit musical montage!
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I request that I not be included in anything Blayne writes.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: What prior evidence? Wasn't it deleted?
Point taken.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: I will freely waive any objections to being in this book if Blayne agrees to name his character Mary Sue (or knowing him, probably something more like Mray Sue)
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: blayne's serializing us so that the people he dislikes can get shot or stabbed or something, I bet.
I will read it, however, as I am a huge fan of comedy.
That's pretty much why I'd be perfectly okay with Blayne using me as a character. I have zero fear of this monstrosity actually getting published, so I'm pretty sure it'd just be us reading it, and I think Blayne's portrayal of me would be extremely amusing.
Hatrack fanfic is woefully underrepresented.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
"I want to see Blayne write a book in which a curmudgeonly jerk named Occasional finds a soulmate on an Internet forum and learns to love."
You have no idea. Well, now you do sort of.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I want to see Blayne write a book in which a curmudgeonly jerk named Occasional finds a soulmate on an Internet forum and learns to love.
Hey, I'd read it.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I don't care if Blayne uses me. I'd read it too. I think it would be funny.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
I'm not too worried about being recognized.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
Having contributed to sites like Wikipedia, I'm used to the notion that anything I put on the Internet is not mine. It's the world's. I may have made it, but usually nobody cares, and that's true of the pseudonym and persona surrounding it as well as the work. Therefore, I have no qualms about this, it might be a fun read. I gave the world permission whatever liberty required to use my image and work for their own ends when I signed up for the Internet, and so did everyone else.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I gave the world permission whatever liberty required to use my image and work for their own ends when I signed up for the Internet, and so did everyone else.
We did not.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I gave the world permission whatever liberty required to use my image and work for their own ends when I signed up for the Internet, and so did everyone else.
You might have. I didn't. The Internet needs to get over this idea that neither law nor civility apply to it. The laws regarding use of likeness, copyright, trademark, and right of publicity do not stop applying because someone invents a new method of publication.
The general rules about these things are well established. Courts have been pretty darned good at interpreting them in light of new technology. The cultural memes of the Internet do not trump the law.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
If he referred to us merely by our forum names could anything be done? I'd be surprised if forum handles were implicitly copyrights. If that's all that he would use then I would have no problem with it.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'm not going to address the legalities of Blayne's idea specifically. I don't think I can do that, ethically.
My last comment was aimed at a broad statement about implied license to use of image and works.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I'm not going to address the legalities of Blayne's idea specifically. I don't think I can do that, ethically.
My last comment was aimed at a broad statement about implied license to use of image and works.
Whats the ethical issue of providing legal information?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Because it could be construed as legal advice in which I have a conflict of interest. I have no desire to create an attorney-client relationship with you.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: I gave the world permission whatever liberty required to use my image and work for their own ends when I signed up for the Internet, and so did everyone else.
I must've missed that disclaimer in the materials from my ISP.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Because it could be construed as legal advice in which I have a conflict of interest. I have no desire to create an attorney-client relationship with you.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
What does the monkeys gremlin means?
Also i do not understand how is it a conflict of interest and also I pay in cookies Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It means I was really restraining myself from saying something but couldn't resist quoting the post because I found my thought so funny.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
"hmm looking over Dagonne's CV, it appears you worked for a 'Blayne Bradley' in the past, I think we cannot hire you due to that having any proximity to him may present us with severe liabilities. I am sorry"
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Also i do not understand how is it a conflict of interest
Because my interests in protecting any rights in publicity, likeness, and copyright are in opposition to your interests in writing the novel.
"[A] lawyer shall not represent a client if the representation involves a concurrent conflict of interest. A concurrent conflict of interest exists if ... there is a significant risk that the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by ... a personal interest of the lawyer."
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: I'm used to the notion that anything I put on the Internet is not mine. It's the world's.
Even though I do have legal rights, I prefer to think that way about anything I post on the net. It makes for less anger and dissapointment.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
(I probably talk more to Boon but we've moved into a phase where I do not generally think of her by her screenname. Actually I think of rivka as Rivka, not rivka, too. But since they're pronounced the same it doesn't really matter, does it? ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Monkeys]](graemlins/monkeys.gif)