Awwww look at em sing!
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I'm disappointed at the lack of rickroll.
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
That reminds me way too much of those Prussian Blue girls.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
That was my first thought.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Apparently, the song's about WWII.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
In my opinion, 'Katiusha' should not be sung by pre-teen girls in jugend-ish uniforms.
quote:Apparently, the song's about WWII.
Not directly; it is a marching song of the Russian army, much older than WWII. But it was certainly sung by the Red Army as well.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Oh my god, that is so disturbing.
Not cute, not remotely cute.
Not only are they dressed in Russian military uniforms, singing before a huge crowd after a flag waving introduction, but they look about 8 and they're acting like American pop-stars...
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
I call the one on the right.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: Oh my god, that is so disturbing.
Not cute, not remotely cute.
Not only are they dressed in Russian military uniforms, singing before a huge crowd after a flag waving introduction, but they look about 8 and they're acting like American pop-stars...
This to me seems very normal in any place on the planet, if theres talent there's talent.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
The song is nice, yes.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: Oh my god, that is so disturbing.
Not cute, not remotely cute.
Not only are they dressed in Russian military uniforms, singing before a huge crowd after a flag waving introduction, but they look about 8 and they're acting like American pop-stars...
It's also completely lip synced. And I'm 80% sure they weren't the voices in the recording, certainly not the only ones. It sounds much more like adult voices- probably actually a single adult voice, that has been pitch shifted and corrected. So yeah that's weird.
I think if they are the singers, some very extensive production went into the recording. A performance like that is impossible, categorically.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I'm still scared that they're gonna put me in a gulag.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: Oh my god, that is so disturbing.
Not cute, not remotely cute.
Not only are they dressed in Russian military uniforms, singing before a huge crowd after a flag waving introduction, but they look about 8 and they're acting like American pop-stars...
It's also completely lip synced. And I'm 80% sure they weren't the voices in the recording, certainly not the only ones. It sounds much more like adult voices- probably actually a single adult voice, that has been pitch shifted and corrected. So yeah that's weird.
I think if they are the singers, some very extensive production went into the recording. A performance like that is impossible, categorically.
They're actually fairly famous singers in Russia from what I am told.
And whats wrong with being like American pop stars?
They're actually fairly fake. Just because they're "famous," means nothing, especially for people that age. Use your brain.
edit: and a modest wikipedia entry about an eastern bloc talent contest doesn't change my mind one bit.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What does change your mind?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: They're actually fairly fake. Just because they're "famous," means nothing, especially for people that age. Use your brain.
edit: and a modest wikipedia entry about an eastern bloc talent contest doesn't change my mind one bit.
From my experience listening to Russian talent I have no problem believing with some good aucustics that they are real singers.
According to wiki theyre 10-11sih.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I agree with those who find it creepy and fake-looking.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Ew, that's fu
um, creepy and weird.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I think we can all agree, by the way, that the one thing this absolutely is not is "adorable."
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What about Dmitri? Isn't he cool and spiffy with that voice?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: What does change your mind?
I realize you're just trying to be cute, but the answer is: a good reason, explanation, example, that I find credible. This is not it.
what changes your mind?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
So... basically its your opinion then?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Seems to be the general consensus.
Posted by adfectio (Member # 11070) on :
So yes, that video is a fake. But yes, they are still talented.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: From my experience listening to Russian talent I have no problem believing with some good aucustics that they are real singers.
This is meaningless.
Of course they can probably sing- no reason they can't find 11 year olds who can. My point is that this performance, aside from being creepy and weird in a lot of ways, is also fake.
I have very often maintained here that I do not approve of children being presented as entertainers. I find it to be distasteful, and a sign of very poor parenting. The popular obsession with child "prodigies," is a part of our history that is full of tales of abuse, and exploitation. For every one true miracle, a Mozart or Paganini, there are tens of thousands of people with broken lives, and the public helped to break them. Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Beethoven (a strange lineup I admit)- these were talented people who spent their lives coping with the expectations of their childhoods, and failing in many ways, to become complete human beings.
I truly believe that we, the public, have a duty to stop enabling this pattern to perpetuate itself. The fact that a child has talent does NOT mean that that child is aware of the consequences of fame. Just because a child may even want to perform does NOT mean that that child should be exposed to the public eye. That these children enable their parents, with no sense of boundaries or responsibility to their children as people, and that we in turn enable these children to find a stage and fulfill their exploitation troubles me deeply, and it has since I could remember.
This is coming from someone who was musically talented at a young age, who was always trying to entertain people. My parents were told that I could be on television, that I could do commercials. Whether that was a reality or not, my parents never pursued that life for me. And I can tell you that despite hearing this from people, and despite the encouragement and praise I got as a six year old who improvised at the piano for attention, I had NO concept of fame, or ambition. You can talk until your blue in the face about how these kids have drive to succeed in entertainment, and you will forget that a kid at 6 years old, maybe even 10, lacks the conceptual skills and experience to understand even the idea of a concert, much less a career.
Over the last few months I have been teaching a weekly class to 3rd graders on Shakespeare. Unless you deal with that age group on occasion, you forget that they lack experiential knowledge and image building skills that adults take for granted. They have the barest concept of what a play is, what a song constitutes, what a script is used for, even how a story comes into existence. The third graders I teach are positively amazed that Shakespeare wrote his plays without the benefit of a computer, or television, and that he organized his performances without using the phone. And what I'm describing to them is a relatively simple scenario- I don't think they're genuinely capable of understanding the modern entertainment business any better, just because they live in the modern world.
Edit: I anticipate the most obvious rebuttal: I am not saying that children should not be allowed to "perform." I am saying that children should NOT be made "entertainers." It's one thing for a child to learn and play music at small recitals, or at bigger recitals as part of a group, and as part of a process of accomplishments that build confidence and experience. I think children should be allowed to act in movies, because that process is one controlled and filtered through a director, and the child is part of an artistic process that can encourage growth and learning- it can be done right.
This kind of thing, this "entertainer" thing, the solo acts that involve kids not even in their teens, is indefensible. It replaces the critical and encouraging guidance of a peer group and a system or series of accomplishments that has been shown to be essential to young performers. It then turns the child into a commodity that is not real, rather than treating that child as a person with potential and a future. I can't imagine the pressure and confusion of a life like that.
[ March 31, 2008, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
So yes, that video is a fake. But yes, they are still talented.
Could we please stop linking these videos? I mean, it's your prerogative, but this is feeding the machine.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
One of your better posts, Lloyd.
It gives me another reason to hate kids who are better than me at what I do. It's bad for them, too!
I also take issue with "omg" in the headline. I'm not religious...it's just annoying. Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, Orincoro, what you're essentially calling for is eradicating most of the entertainment industry and starting over with a big heap of legislation.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
Orincoro's post made me think of the recent "Be Kind Rewind", which I went to expecting nothing but silliness and laughs, but left thinking: we as a society have rejected the community musical production in favor of the glitzy hollywood production, the local church pageant in favor of big name stars, and the high school orchestra in favor of the Boston Pops.
And that is not so much a matter of legislation but of the kind of people we have allowed ourselves to become. Which leads to the possibility of exploitation.
My first reaction to the video was that it's kind of creepy. But after looking up a translation of the song lyrics, I decided it's more silly than creepy - it's a love song, and the style of music they're doing simply doesn't fit the words.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
By the way - it's definitely an overdub. Someone who posted a comment at youtube watched the thing closely enough to notice that right after the section where they show some of the orchestra playing, both girls are singing but there is only one voice in the audio.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:By the way - it's definitely an overdub. Someone who posted a comment at youtube watched the thing closely enough to notice that right after the section where they show some of the orchestra playing, both girls are singing but there is only one voice in the audio.
They were very likely singing in the performance but I agree, it's very obvious that the video is dubbed. Live un-edited music doesn't (incredibly rarely) sound as precise as that.
Jeorge- I'm always amazed when people come to local performances and are surprised when it doesn't suck. Even totally untrained choirs, moderately trained dancers, untrained actors can pull off a good performance- that's why shows like American Idol work, because talent doesn't just work at a national level. Live performance that hasn't been edited and amplified and pitch adjusted is much real-er than the edited-sounding music.
EDIT: As for the nationalism, it doesn't seem that different from any nationalistically-based performance that you might find a reasonable approximation of in the US. Although yes, nationalism is clearly a strong point here.
Also, as for child performance, I agree that it very often mangles the child. However, you cannot restrict child performance at one level of the society if you permit it at others. The best you can do is limit the amount of money and glitz the parents can amass.
Also, was Mozart really such success story? and I do not believe that Beethoven started performing as early as Mozart did.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, Orincoro, what you're essentially calling for is eradicating most of the entertainment industry and starting over with a big heap of legislation.
As I look at Orin's post, I don't see anything about legislation. It's quite possible to say "We as a society should do X and reject Y" without saying that the federal government should get involved. Not everybody thinks that it's the government's job to solve all our problems.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: What about Dmitri? Isn't he cool and spiffy with that voice?
Yes. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: What about Dmitri? Isn't he cool and spiffy with that voice?
Yes.
`
yay!
And Orinoco has a point. I hate seeing children exploited that way when they are too young to process it all.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, Orincoro, what you're essentially calling for is eradicating most of the entertainment industry and starting over with a big heap of legislation.
Not legislation. I just don't want people to do it. I think people should recognize the impropriety and abuse involved with making children entertain, and be disgusted by it. The problem in our culture, and obviously much of the industrial world, is denial. As long as we don't see the life being wrecked, or we are given the thinnest thread of a plausible story about the benefit of this business, we deny to ourselves that children in entertainment trouble. No matter how many times, over and over and over, we are provided with examples of the results, never good, rarely ever beneficial to anyone but the advertisers and the product pushers, we deny to ourselves and to others that this thing, as a whole, is bad.
I think one day, maybe a long time from now, children "in the business" will be regarded as the last bastion of child slavery that existed in our society. There was a time, believe you me, when people defended the rights of children to work in poor houses, and those people had reasons to deny the obvious to themselves. But we as a society claim to protect children from such dangers- we need to follow through on that and not accept this kind of trash.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: Also, as for child performance, I agree that it very often mangles the child. However, you cannot restrict child performance at one level of the society if you permit it at others. The best you can do is limit the amount of money and glitz the parents can amass.
Also, was Mozart really such success story? and I do not believe that Beethoven started performing as early as Mozart did.
To the first point, this logic is unsound. This is why we have child labor laws, so that children are allowed to work in a limited way, befitting their needs. I actually do believe that there should be regulation in the entertainment industry, maybe even self-administered, that limits or abolishes this kind of performance.
Aside from that, I am saying that we as a society are not required to gobble this crap up, and yet we do. Not only us, but apparently everyone on Earth. The pattern of denial and neglect is so clear, and yet you sit by and perpetuate that denial by distorting and conflating ideas of free speech with the rights of children to a sovereign identity. There is no child capable of achieving a career as an entertainer without significant prompting from an adult- if there were such a child, that would be a glaring exception.
As for Mozart, he was the most classic exception to the rule of child performers, and the reasons are manifold, so I'll outline. Despite a historical reputation he doesn't deserve, Mozart's father Leopold has been revealed in better research of recent years, to have been deeply loving and supportive of his two prodigy children. Mozart, aside from possessing a mind that many believe has never been equaled by another living person, save a very few possible figures, was raised in a very nurturing environment, exposed to an enormous amount of culture and society in his early years, and was well cared for throughout his life. Again, despite popular conception, he was never at risk of poverty, and though he died at a low ebb in his career, he was not forgotten by benefactors while he was alive, and his music was sustained in popularity almost from the time each individual piece was written.
I can't vouch for his enjoyment of life, but by most accounts he was a joyous and wonderful person. I think it's a pretty remarkable story. Edit: more importantly you have to remember that for all his accolades, Mozart simply never performed to a crowd the size of this one in the video. No one did. The people he performed to, and the venue in which he performed, was quite sedate most of the time, often very personal.
Just one more reason the entertainment business is so bad for talent these days, the pressure and confusion of being viewed by a crowd of thousands of people is not something human beings are made for. The psychological stress that this cold induce in a child seems very dangerous to me.
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