This is topic -Trying- to read Stephenie Meyer's vampire books. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
These books are insanely popular in my part of the world. Always having to get restocked at the book store. Always checked out at the library. (At last count, the waiting list for holds on the newest book was over a hundred people before me.)

And, any bit of news on the film adaptation causes the various movie sites and blogs to be flooded with people going SQUEEE! [Big Grin]

I don't even -like- vampire fiction that much, but I had just read Robin McKinley's Sunshine. I wanted to read something similar.

But like I said, looks like it'll be months and months before the library can loan me book one. I see B&N has an el-cheapo paperback version out now. Should I break down and get it? Has anyone else read them? Are they any good?
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I like them
I think they are good, funny, entertaining, they have awesome chracters.
Bella and Edward tend to be a bit.... well...
You'll have to see once you read them, but I just like them.
I don't have much of an interest in the film because the guy just doesn't look Edwardian enough.
Why can't they use the Prince Caspian dood? He's way more edwardy.
They will probably ruin it anyway and annoy me somehow, like making too many character changes when the characters are great they way they are and that is all their is to it.
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
What's wrong with Robert Pattinson? He was a great Cedric Diggory. [Smile]

I assume Ben Barnes was too busy doing pick-ups and publicity tours for Prince Caspian. Plus, he's already under contract for two more Narnia films, plus all his theater work. He's a busy guy, and sure to get busier.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Yeah, but Edward's got to be unnaturally hot.
I don't think there's a guy that can play him.
Maybe with a lot of white, glowy make-up, it might help, but I don't know. Edward is supposed to be superdupernaturally HAWT.
Still, I will pass on this movie and any others since HP4 was so irratating

Oddly enough I'll see the Narnia movies because I haven't read all of the books and don't feel as passionate about Narnia as I do HP, T, NM, E and stuff like that.
They are doing one of Maximum Ride which is another series I just enjoy. It's funny and exciting in bits and just a good solid read.
 
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
 
Sunshine! I read that last fall and really liked it, I went to the author's website and read that she really wanted to write a sequel to it, but just hadn't thought of anything good enough to follow it. [Frown]

(Which is sad, but I admire her restraint.)
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Huh. On her blog, McKinley wrote somewhat the opposite: She knows a -lot- about where Rae's story will go next, but hates writing sequels due to bad past experiences with the Damar series.

Will the real McKinley motive please stand up! [Smile]
 
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
 
Here's the bit I'd read, from her FAQ section:

quote:
For all of you who are writing me eagerly asking about the possibility of/ requesting politely/ demanding a sequel to Sunshine, thank you very much for your expressed enthusiasm, but the answer is: I haven't the slightest idea if I'll write a sequel! It's not up to me! I can't do anything unless or until a story comes to me and says, 'Write me — write me now.' (This is all in the FAQ, by the way.) I'd love to write more about Sunshine — I know quite a bit about what happens to her — but it's not up to me. If you want to nag someone, find the mailing address of the Story Council and nag them to send me the sequel. (If you discover the mailing address of the Story Council, however, I want it. Badly. I have a few things to say to them about the unreasonableness of their system. Maybe it worked back in the days of bards and shamans and authorized lunacy, but it's a rotten system for present-day, this-world writers trying to, you know, earn a living, and maybe behave like human beings instead of like mental cases.) Given my professional history on the subject of sequels, I can't say that the odds are very good (I know a lot about Damar that hasn't seen print either), but maybe the Story Council has changed administration recently and is, even as I write this, making radical and extensive alterations in their organization and structure. And the sequel to Sunshine is due to hit the inside of the back of my skull with a thunk any day now. But don't count on it.
That FAQ entry's undated though, so her feelings might've changed since.
 
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
 
I absolutely loved Sunshine-- when I finished it, I reread it immediately and have read it several times since then. I've never found another book with the same feel. Tell me how you like the Stephanie Meyer books when you manage to read them, will you, Puffy?
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
I will share my feelings here, if my name ever moves up the hold list. [Smile]
 
Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
 
I love the Twilight Series. They are my current favorites. I listen to the audio books and get quite a bit more work done around the house. My husband is even listening to them in the car on his work commute!

I think they are worth your time since they are fun, easy reads. You'll probably finish all 3 of them within a week. I find Stephenie Meyer's writing style very personable and quite captivating.

I'm really looking forward to the movie. It looks like they're doing a great job with it. Stephenie Meyer is even making a cameo!
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
She is?
I'll have to think about it.

She's also a big OSC fan.
Wait til you get to these hilarious great scenes in Eclipse. She is quite a good writer in terms of drama and comedy.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
I would have loved Twilight unconditionally when I was fourteen.
Maybe I'm too old. I have conditions now.

Meyer tells her stories well. She's a gifted writer - you tend to 'wake up' three hours later, reading her books.
But at the same time - Bella, the main character, is so flat.
Maybe I over-identify and am therefore over-critical, since we share a nickname.
However, she's very much the damsel, not the hero, in her own life story.
Plus, there's something so unhealthy about her equating love with death.
I wasn't too impressed by the way she loves Edward stalking her, sneaking into her bedroom uninvited, ordering her around, etc.
I just want to yell 'Come on, grow a spine. He wants to kill you!'
I like my heroines a little more active.
She's a bit of a Mary-Sue - everyone she meets loves her because she's pretty and nice - her only (acknowledged) fault is that she falls over a lot.

There are a few other things that bothered me - namely, the reason Meyer gives for vampires not liking sunlight seems rather unlikely.

But they're engaging stories and very much based on wish fulfilment, which makes them enjoyable.
The author seems to be lovely, from what I've heard, too.
Just don’t switch on your analytical brain.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I want to read about Damar...but she HAS written two stories about it, so she is doing better than some....

[Wink]
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
I want to read about Damar...but she HAS written two stories about it, so she is doing better than some....

[Wink]

Three, if you count Deerskin. Though judging what era Lissar lived in compared to when Aerin lived is difficult. Certainly, it takes place long before Harry comes into the picture.

(Not to mention the short stories in A Knot in the Grain, Water, and the mention in Spindle's End.)
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Bella, many positive reviews of the novel from older, shall we say more seasoned fantasy fans seem to agree with you. The consensus seems to be it's likable empty-calorie fantasy, with an incredibly devoted fan base. [Smile]
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I don't think she's flat... a bit...dependent, but not flat.
She reminds me of me. She hates proms and big weddings.
I hate stuff like that deeply.
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Reading her site, the author seems to have a nice self-deprecatory sense of humor. I like that.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
quote:
Bella, many positive reviews of the novel from older, shall we say more seasoned fantasy fans seem to agree with you.
It's okay. I'm in my mid-twenties. Been reading fantasy for a while now. I'm pretty seasoned. [Wink]
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Puffy, I think Sunshine is MUCH better than the Meyer books, but that's me. I did enjoy the Meyer books, and they were responsible for me getting back into YA fiction. My daughter raved about them, I read them, and said it reminded me of a novel I'd had on the back burner for years, then when I told my daughter the plot she demanded I write it - and it's actually been my favorite writing project ever and it's going pretty well, for me! (my story is only similar in that it involves teens, and fantasy, and a romantic element - no vamps in mine)

At any rate, I agree with much of the criticism of the main heroine, Bella. She is very passive, and weak. Things happen to her - she doesn't really make them happen. In the second book, Meyer tried to have her be more active but it came off really angsty-teenager. "Oh, I feel like my life isn't going where I want it to, so Im' going to do stupid stuff that endangers me!" Bleh.

So, I understand the criticisms, but they're still a fun read. Empty-calorie fluff describes them well, IMO.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I don't think she's weak
She's really rather brave and self sacrificing, a bit too self sacrificing sometimes, but she's got a lot of guts.
Plus she was so young in the second book, and faced with such adverse odds (trying to be spoiler free)
Though those scenes actually amused me a bit.
 
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Belle:
Empty-calorie fluff describes them well, IMO.

Thirded, although my impression shouldn't count for much since I only read a couple of chapters before I quit. I might pick them up sometime if I had a couple of days to waste.

IMO, the writing was quick and easy but shallow, the characters were likable but shallow, the plot was shallow...I'm seeing a trend. And I don't think it's sufficient just to say "Oh, it's YA." There's a lot of quality YA fiction, and Stephanie Meyers is no Lloyd Alexander.

If you want an interesting YA Vampire series that might be in stock try the Darkangel trilogy by Meredith Ann Pierce. The first book in particular I thought was quite good.
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
I loved the Darkangel books, but thought the ending and coda made the entire series jump the shark. I know Pierce was trying for a non-traditional ending, but she just didn't pull it off well enough.
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Since the waiting list on holds is so long, maybe I'll just catch the movie this December.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I have read only the first book, but will comment as a guy. First the criticism. It is way too much of a typical teen romance with a girl that meets a fantasy guy and obsesses over him. Her "love descriptions" made me want to puke. In the second book it only got worse and so I had to stop reading.

I never thought of Belle as weak or shallow in the first book. Maybe she gets weaker as the novels progress. What I think is that she had a conflicting character. Her weakness was in her obsessive love of Edwards that acted upon her rather than she acted with. However, that is really a good example of teen love. At the same time, her strength was that she was fearless in the face of death and temptation. She became a hero by not allowing the dangerous love destroy her, or by breaking it off. In this way, at least considering the first book, it is both more and less than fluff.

I think it is so popular because it represents for young women both the fears and fantasy of love. It isn't based on mature love. Then again, for anyone who has picked up a romance novel the only thing that might be different is the lack of a sex scene or a vampire. I know of a few people who don't want their daughters reading it or don't like it themselves for that reason. On the other hand, I know of many fans who react more like Synesth and see something of themselves in the character as brave and passionate, although not always in control of their lives.
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Twilight is fascinating because it describes the perfect, safe, "dangerous" relationship. I have a whole rant about it, but I've written it already. The books are erotic, but not explicit.

If you want the opinion of some educated, adult reviewers who are also immersed in your culture, check out the Anneke's entry on Zalmoxis's literary blog.

http://www.motleyvision.org/?http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=157p=413

Interview with Stephanie Meyer on same site
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Reading the interview was interesting. Glad she has an understanding editor. (A YA/Teen book -without- explicit premarital sex? Judging by B&N's Teen section, that seems to be quite rare, these days.)

Which article in the first link am I supposed to click on? I can't tell. (feeling stupid, yeah.)
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I'm sorry - bad link. Let me try again:
http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=413
 
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Hmmm. I think the reviewer may be assuming readers are a lot stupider than they may actually be. Most of the people I know who read the often super-stylized world of shojo romance manga -know- that 99% of the books are escapist fantasy. They don't expect it to be like real life or build their own lives on the tropes of such stories.

I'll have to read the books to judge for myself, but I get the feeling the teen girls reading Twilight are probably include a good mix of self-aware girls who realize fiction is fiction, not a life plan.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I don't see Edward as abusive.
Overprotective maybe, but definetly not abusive.
I'm just not seeing it, and I read Why Does He Do That.
It's mostly that he's stronger and supernatural being a vampire and all, but, other than the fact that he wants to DRINK Bella for dinner (which explains his earlier behavior, he was such a jerk towards her, but mostly because she's his favourite FOOD walking into the room) he really doesn't strike me as an actual controlling, moody abusive guy. If anyone keeps lying (though she hates it) it's Bella. He wants her to be honest about what's going on more than she wants to admit it to her parents.
In the second book and third book, you'll see her realize stuff about her relationship with Edward and what she'd lose out on. So I don't think I agree totally with those reviews.
 
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
 
My daughter and I read the first Twilight book last summer, then I bought a boxed set of the trilogy for her for Christmas. I liked the first one all right, but barely made it through the second and haven't even cracked the third yet.

I got REALLY tired of Bella's moping in book two. And it was all pretty predictable.

I wouldn't have bought the set for myself, but I'm hardly the target audience. My 17 year old daughter is probably a little older than the demographic it's aimed at.

I'll probably wait to watch the movie on DVD. And one of these days when I can't get to the library, I'll read the third book.

I just bought Sunshine about a month ago and really liked it. I'd love to read a sequel to that one.
 
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
I loved the Darkangel books, but thought the ending and coda made the entire series jump the shark. I know Pierce was trying for a non-traditional ending, but she just didn't pull it off well enough.

I totally agree. I could take or leave Gathering of Gargoyles and Pearl of the Soul of the World, but I really liked Darkangel, and thought the other two were worth reading to find out what happened. I do remember being particularly let down by the resolution.
 
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
 
I think katharina is exactly right. Edward is dangerous yet completely safe. The perfect tormented dark hero--very Heathcliff. And jillions of adolescent girls said, "Yum!"

I liked all three books. I won't go out and buy the 4th, but I will pester the 7th graders I teach to loan me one of their copies.

What I thought after reading the first was that it reminded me of the 1980s/ early 90s romance novels I loved so much at that age, where the hero was totally alpha, very bossy, kind of mean at times (although his meanness was always somehow justified or at least understandable), very very sexy, and redeemed by loving a seemingly normal though very beautiful girl. Trust me, I'm not knocking the formula...I *love* the formula. [Smile] Anyway, I think that's a big part of the appeal of the series to the smart adolescent...she can enjoy the sentimental and erotic thrill of a romance without being seen reading a romance.
 
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
quote:
I can't do anything unless or until a story comes to me and says, 'Write me — write me now.'
I hate this excuse. You're a friggin' writer-- make something up!

Of course, she's the one with a book deal, and I'm not...

I'm reading Twilight right now. It seems pretty much crafted for the market it's targeted at. My wife liked Twilight (which was odd, since she's not a big fan of speculative fiction, much less YA vampire romance); she was derisive of New Moon.
 
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
My summary of Twilight is basically this:

Bella: You are seriously smoking hot.
Edward: So are you. And you smell delicious.
Bella: And you're so mysterious and dangerous!
Edward: Let's hook up.
Bella: Can we make out?
Edward: No, because then I might accidentally eat you.
Bella: *swoons*
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Brinestone has nailed it. Perfectly.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brinestone:
My summary of Twilight is basically this:

Bella: You are seriously smoking hot.
Edward: So are you. And you smell delicious.
Bella: And you're so mysterious and dangerous!
Edward: Let's hook up.
Bella: Can we make out?
Edward: No, because then I might accidentally eat you.
Bella: *swoons*

Tha's funny.
I still like it anyway. It's entertaining, which is what I need these days.
 
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't entertaining. I read it quickly, but it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I recently realized that these books could parellel the book The Wind Blows Backwards.
It's a cool book, but when I read it when I was older I realized that Spencer was extremely troubled and unhealthy. I'd say Edward was a lot less screwed up than him, even though he was a vampire. He's not nearly as moody. They remind me of each other because of the teen mush aspect of it all.
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Edward isn't as moody because that would be off-putting to Bella, and Edward's defining characteristic is "attractive to Bella".
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
He;s got a lot of cds too.
And he can play the piano
Both things are very appealing.
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Edward has no wisdom. One would expect someone so old, who has lived such a long lifetime, to have wisdom. That's part of the vampire mystique, after all - they've lived longer than you and they know more than you.

But he's not - he acts and talks pretty much like a 17 year old high school guy. One with money, and a certain amount of sophistication, sure...but still just another 17 year old guy. And that's unfortunate, because it makes him seem shallow.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I don't think he talks like a 17 year old high school guy.
For one thing he uses antiquated phrases. And I don't think he's shallow either.

I feel bad for him because ALL the other vampires he lives with have mates except for him. Poor dood. Everyone has someone to pair up with for decades except him, until he meets bella.
And anyway, Jacob is way more immature than Edward, but I like him too. He's a cub. He can't help it.
 
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
 
Jacob's a cutie but I kinda went off him after he did that


*SPOILER*


manipulative suicide threat thing. Who DOES that?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I have to confess that the whole "horror romance" genre just seriously squicks me the heck out.
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*SPOILER********












quote:
manipulative suicide threat thing. Who DOES that?
What, the "if you do not swear to be with me, I have no reason to live and will do something to myself" thing? I've heard that before - I couldn't believe it then, either. I think I laughed. But I've definitely heard it. Is there a Ways to Manipulate handbook out there?
 
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
I'm endlessly annoyed by Bella. Is this seriously how the targeted audience thinks?

"Those two guys like me. They're good, ordinary guys who aren't that unattractive. They treat me kindly. I can't stand them-- why do they bug me so much?

"But Edward, oh, Edward. He's rude and kind of creepy, and always looks at me so angrily. Delicious..."
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Yes, sometimes.

That they are good, ordinary guys is exactly what makes them more dangerous to the status quo - being in a relationship is an enormous responsibility and serious relationships with good guys often lead to much more serious responsibilities and real life and oh-my-stars-she's-just-16. Sometimes dating the bad guy is a great way to avoid growing up too fast - that he is unlikely to be a good long-term prospect is precisely the point.

Dating the bad boy is still generally a bad idea because the real broody, dangerous guys will inflict harm and often leave 16-year-olds with children, which is definitely growing up too soon.

That's why Edward is so perfect - all the dangerous appeal of the bad boy who is entertaining and exciting but won't tie you down, but he's good on the inside, so you're still safe and secure.

What's that magazine Lisa Simpson is always reading? With the Coreys?
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fyfe:
Jacob's a cutie but I kinda went off him after he did that


*SPOILER*


manipulative suicide threat thing. Who DOES that?

Well, he's immature like that. He did get what he wanted, but he's soooooo immature.
Still, I adore Jacob.
I hope he finds a nice girl to imprint on because it's just not going to happen with Bella who has been stolen by the supernatural hunk.
And besides, those other guys already have girls who are into them.
It's werid how she goes straight for the supernatural doods.
I wonder if she's going to get Vamped Out in the next book and what that will be like.
I don't think I'd want to Vamp Out. You can't have babies when you're a vampire. I don't think she really thought enough about the consiquences until book three. She's not perfect, but I like her anyway.
Her anti-prom and big wedding thing is rather meish.
 
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
 
Sorry to bring up an old thread but its better than starting a new one.

I work at a Barnes and Noble and got roped into working the long mid-day shift on August 2nd to help with all the "Breaking Dawn" madness. So because we're out of copies of "Watchmen" to read on my lunch break, I decided to read through Meyers' series so that I could understand what all the hype was about. I was reluctant because of A) its popularity and B) it has started some seriously loud debates in the break room. Regarding the popularity, I had the same concerns with "Harry Potter" which I didn't start reading until after the fourth book had come out. But now I absolutely love that series.

[MINOR SPOILERS BELOW!]

And you know what? I like the first book. I thought it was vapid and shallow and about as deep as the average romantic comedy movie. But I have to admit that I'm a sucker for tortured romances and falling in love with the enemy. I was very aware of the criticisms made by my coworkers. They said Bella wasn't a good role model, that the male characters were disgusting, etc. I figured that perhaps they were overreacting. I was disappointed by how little actually happen by way of plot but it was still a pleasant, sugary read.

I've been power-reading through "New Moon" and "Eclipse" and realized fairly quickly that I was forcing myself to read instead of enjoying the mental state where time and pages pass unobserved. The two kind of blur together because there is even less plot than the first book. Literally, nothing happens.

Bella really is incredibly flat. She has no hobbies or interests. Occasionally she'll read "Wuthering Heights" but a short mention pales in comparison to the amount of time she spends obsessing over Edward. It was cute the first hundred or so pages, but it quickly started bordering on sick. She can cook, but she treats it like a chore for her father with whom she has no relationship. She doesn't approach it was a passion or an art. Oh, and she's unbelievably clumsy. That is the one "adorable" flaw Meyers gives her. In "Twilight" the reader is constantly reminded that Bella is used to living in Phoenix, a large city. And yet, on a trip to a nearby city, she vaguely recognizes that she is the in the wrong part of town (lots of warehouses, few people) and doesn't think to turn back. Not exactly street smart!!

We're told that no boys played attention to her in Phoenix, and yet she is a male-magnet in Forks despite being distant, rude, and artificial in her interactions with her fellow classmates. She, of course, becomes absolutely smitten with the the beautiful Edward who occasionally treats here with smile but spends the majority of the time avoiding her and treating her like something vile. His behavior leads her to become more and more obsessed and results in repeatedly berating her own below-average looks. I'm willing to accept that her low self-esteem is makes her relatable to teenage girls, but she isn't even comparing herself to anyone else besides the Cullens. Its all about how she isn't equal to Edward and the whole idea makes me alittle ill.

Not the mention that their relationship is entirely based on physical appearance and alittle magic. Bella thinks Edward is hot and mysterious. Edward thinks Bella smells tasty and is confused as to why he can't read her mind. This isn't a relationship based on shared interests, a sense of humor, or being an intellectual match.

When Edward leaves her, she completely loses her mind. Yeah, we've all had bad breakups. The kind that leave you locked in your room listening to bad music with angsty lyrics. But not Bella, she goes catatonic, and not in the metaphoric sense. Without Edward, she loses her entire self-worth. Everything falls apart, which isn't surprising since she didn't seem to have anything going for her before Edward showed up.

And then there's Jacob. The first character with a personality. Here's a boy who has a hobby! He works on cars! He treats Bella well, has healthy friendships, and has a better relationship with his own father. So what does Meyers do? She transforms him into a muscle-man, whose behavior is even more disgusting than Edwards.

Reading "Eclipse" is like watching a male pissing contest. Who can control Bella more? There's Edward who disassembles her car to keep her from visiting Jacob. There's Jacob who emotionally blackmails Bella into kissing him. And in that moment of betrayal and abuse, she realizes that she loves him!! What?! I lost track of how many times she's is physically restrained and forced to act against what little will she has.

Not that Bella is always the victim. One minute she's acting all righteous and self-sacrificial, and the next she's keeping Edward standing alongside on yet another war that all about her. She strings Jacob along in such a way that makes me wonder if she's just that dense or if she's as manipulative as her boyfriend.

I have 30 pages in "Eclipse" left to read and I'm having to drag myself through it because with each page I turn, I become increasingly disappointed that Bella is still alive.

I'll probably get my hands on a copy of "Breaking Dawn" next week and I'll read with the tiniest bit of hope that Meyers will somehow salvage Bella's character or grow her into an independent young woman who finally stops being attracted to controlling, abusive men. But I doubt it.

I apologize for the rant but I wish I hadn't read the series. Now I'm just going to feel ill with each copy of the new book that I sell. I can't believe how many young girl are impressed by Bella and falling in love with Edward.
 
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
 
quote:
I don't even -like- vampire fiction that much
I found this funny.
 
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
 
[The Wave] Shanna!

I completely agree with you. I've been laughing at these books and their unsubtle sex = death metaphors, but in all honesty they really irritate me. Like what we need is a generation of teenage girls who thinks stalkers are romantic.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I really don't see how Edward is controlling and abusive.
And I read Why Does He Do that some months ago. He doesn't fit the profile.
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Shanna, you did a great job summing up my feelings on the books!

Syn, it's not direct - but there is an undertone of violence in his relationship with Bella, and quite frankly, I don't think any relationship with that type of violent undertone is healthy and is something that should be encouraged.

He. Wants. To. Kill. Her.

Please let us not forget that. Yeah, he claims he loves her for herself, for more than just the fact that he had that visceral, predatory reaction to her the first time he met her, but the fact remains his main attraction to her is a desire to consume her. LITERALLY!

What makes him controlling and abusive? Well, he has all the power in the relationship. All of it. She cannot exist without him, not as a whole, real person. The pages in the second book, with the months on them and no content? That made me sick. And scared me. Most of the people who've read the books said they found that funny - I found it disturbing. It indicates that for the months he was gone she had no life, no true existence within herself. She defines herself by how HE sees her, rather than by herself.

When she did get up and try to go "get a life" without him, she did it by engaging in self-destructive behavior! Again, very unhealthy and scary.

All those things add up to a very frightening relationship with some major warning signals. And the fact that so many young teen readers overlook that and react in a manner similiar to saying "Well, he's hot and so angsty so it's okay!' makes me very worried.

All that said, I still enjoyed reading them. The books are about obsession, after all, so we as readers get caught up in the obsession and swept along for the ride. It can be fun to go along for the ride on these types of things. I'm certainly not saying the books shouldn't be read - I let my teen daughter read them - but we shouldn't close our eyes to what the books are about and how the characters are behaving. I've told my daughter how I feel about the books and we discuss them - she doesn't completely agree with me, but she acknowledges my feelings. We've discussed what traits in Edward she would do better NOT to look for in a potential boyfriend. [Wink]

As always, I am against censoring material and think people should read widely and for fun. But, I advocate parents reading what their children are reading and talking about it with them.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
We've discussed what traits in Edward she would do better NOT to look for in a potential boyfriend.
"Honey, vampires are just for looking."
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Actually we discussed the other day whether she would ever find a boyfriend at all. Not that I'm pressuring her to date, I think most young people rush into that anyway, but she has such incredibly high standards she borders on being a complete snob.

She finds boys her own age immature and annoying. Imagine that! [Razz]
 
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
 
On the subject of emotional manipulation, there's this disturbing conversation between Jacob and Bella:

quote:
“He’s not playing any game, Jake,” I said quietly.
“You bet he is. He’s playing every bit as hard as I am, only he knows what he’s doing and I don’t.
Don’t blame me because he’s a better manipulator than I am — I haven’t been around long enough to
learn all his tricks.”
“He isn’t manipulating me!”
“Yes, he is! When are you going to wake up and realize that he’s not a perfect as you think he is?”
“At least he didn’t threaten to kill himself to make me kiss him,” I snapped. As soon as the words were
out, I flushed with chagrin. “Wait. Pretend that didn’t slip out. I swore to myself that I wasn’t going to say
anything about that.”

I was fine with the whole "I want to drink your blood" thing aside from the fact that its such a huge reason why he's attracted to her.

I was more disturbed by the constant "I'm doing this because I love you." Saying "I love you" or being concerned is not reason enough to disassemble someone's car to keep them from going
places. You can't force someone to fill out college applications, a good boyfriend doesn't make his sister kidnap his girlfriend whenever he isn't there to keep an eye on her, etc. A good boyfriend might make a request and present an argument while leaving decisions ultimately up to her. But Edward seems to cross that line. He doesn't just ask her to fill out college applications despite her decision, he forges her signature and bribes schools into accepting her. Instead of respecting the fact that she wants the man she's giving up her humanity for to bite her, he blackmails her into a wedding she very clearly doesn't want or isn't ready for.

He's also physically stronger than her so whenever she tries to resist or take action, he easily overpowers her. He's jealous and possessive she's constantly apologizing when he loses his temper. There's just no equality between them. I've been in that kind of relationship. Its not healthy!'

Googling signs of an emotionally abuse boyfriend I found:

quote:

-Heavily into car image, drives aggressively, ignores needs of passengers
-Is jealous of your opposite sex friends and former partners - acts hurt, upset or moody if you give attention to someone else.
-Pushy and judgmental - knows what's best for every one (especially you) - they are always right, never admits they are wrong
-Non-verbal, very intense, staring
-Ridicules people who are different (the whole "dog" and "bloodsucker" thing)
-Wants to fast-track the relationship (ie sharing a bed, wedding after a year together).
- Doesn’t accept or respect your decisions.
- Doesn’t trust you.
- Checks up on you.
- Tells you what you “should” do.
- Says he can’t live without you or he will kill himself if you leave him.
- Makes you feel responsible for his feelings
- Makes you afraid of telling him the truth, so you find yourself not telling him things or lying to him in order to avoid fights and conflicts.
Grabbing your arm or blocking the door when you are trying to leave is one of the first signs the emotional abuse may later turn into physical violence.

While the emotional abuse could lead to physical violence, it doesn't always lead to this. The abusive person might learn he can sufficiently control you with psychological abuse, guilt trips, fear, professions of love, apologies, gifts and other manipulation.


 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I've only read the first book, and that was fine, but I wasn't interested in the rest. It sounds like it's gotten much more abusive during it's run.
 
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
I want to read about Damar...but she HAS written two stories about it, so she is doing better than some....

[Wink]

Three, if you count Deerskin. Though judging what era Lissar lived in compared to when Aerin lived is difficult. Certainly, it takes place long before Harry comes into the picture.

(Not to mention the short stories in A Knot in the Grain, Water, and the mention in Spindle's End.)

I just about spat all over my computer. Those are Damar stories??
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
My wife loves the Bella/Edward books. I picked one up for a minute and all I can remember is a highly excessive (IMO) amount of description of how hard Edward's body is, and how thrilled Bella is to be touched by him. It was just not quite my cup of tea. My wife just got giggly when I asked her if the whole book was like this. I took it as a "yes" - the plot summary posted in this thread seems to confirm.

It had the same flavor as romance genre novels I've picked up and read a page or two from, but of course a bit less explicit in its eroticism.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I recently read Host by her, and one of my big complaints was how the female protagonists were treated by their love interests. Beverly told me that it's even worse in her Twilight books, which makes me have no interest in reading them.
 
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 
my keyboard broke. my feeings-> [Mad] [No No] [Grumble] [Wall Bash] dont read it....... ever
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I recently read Host by her, and one of my big complaints was how the female protagonists were treated by their love interests. Beverly told me that it's even worse in her Twilight books, which makes me have no interest in reading them.
I also just finished the Host. I thought it was a fairly enjoyable and interesting read. But the relationships irritated me as well. The females all seemed to hero-worship their significant others while all of the males felt they had full authority over their girl. From what I've heard of Twilight, I don't have any real interest.
 
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
I'm just so relieved that there are other people who didn't like the series. Everyone else I know adores the books and can't understand why I don't.

I did like The Host much better, though.
 
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
 
I was more interested in the ancient Roman vampires and their society. Plus, the special powers of Edward and Alice were pretty nifty. Basically, I enjoyed any part of the plot that didn't have to do with romance.
 


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