My guess is that Rabbit may have ridden across the Dewey suspension bridge, before it burned down. The kid is apparently unscathed but who lets a 7 year old play with matches in a fire prone area??
How depressing! I bet that kid's parents are quite embarrassed.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Bummer. That kid's parents should be more than embarrassed. They ought to be whipped. Parents who let their kids destroy irreplaceable historic structures are a good example of the kind of people who should have been eliminated by natural selection.
I've camped along that section of the Colorado numerous times. My husband and I canoed from Dewey bridge to Moab but that was along time ago.
I can't say I remember walking across the bridge but we very likely did just cause that's the sort of thing we would normally do.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Bummer. That kid's parents should be more than embarrassed. They ought to be whipped. Parents who let their kids destroy irreplaceable historic structures are a good example of the kind of people who should have been eliminated by natural selection.
I think it's important to let kids make their own choices. If that happens to include destruction of historic structures, it's a good learning opportunity.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
You better be joking.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Yes, i was joking. I thought YOU were joking when you implied that parents deliberately "let their kids destroy irreplaceable historic structures."
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
What's 'Mormon tea'?
Total bummer...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
..!
God, that's terrible. I loved that bridge.
I've gone over it at least seven times and I'm pretty sure I've floated under it once, too.
They're going to have to replace it, essentially.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I never used the word "deliberately" only let. I guess it depends on how you define "let". I doubt the kid asked "Mom, can I burn down the bridge" and she said "sure dear, anything you want".
I recognize that children aren't exactly controllable but parents do have a responsibility to put forth a good faith effort to controll their children particularly when people and property are potentially endangered. I have no idea how much effort these parents made to keep the kid from playing with matches in a dry fire prone area near an historic structure. Clearly it wasn't enough but that doesn't mean they were necessarily negligent per se.
I was just offended by the the idea that "embarrassment" is what these parents should be feeling right now.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by cmc: What's 'Mormon tea'?
Total bummer...
It's a shrub that's ubiquitous to the southern Utah deserts. You can actually chew on the tips or make a sort of drink out of them that will actually give you a buzz.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Maybe we shouldn't soak historical (wooden) structures in accelerants? Just a thought.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I doubt it was consider an historic structure when the wood members were soaked in creosote.
Of course, it they hadn't been the bridge would likely have collapsed from dry rot long before it was old enough to be considered historic.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:You can actually chew on the tips or make a sort of drink out of them that will actually give you a buzz.
Its a very very mild stimulant. I think its quite a stretch to call it a buzz.
And yes, I'm speaking from experience on that.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:I was just offended by the the idea that "embarrassment" is what these parents should be feeling right now.
I guess that's why I thought you were joking. What should the parents feel if not embarrassment? They might be held liable...so they might be feeling some financial pain too. Not sure what else to add.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Huh - cool. Thanks, Samprimary and The Rabbit. I'd never heard of that before...
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
It's one of the ephedra species.
--Mel
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
That's so tragic I feel strange that somehow those nighttime pictures of the fire seem very beautiful to me.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I doubt it was consider an historic structure when the wood members were soaked in creosote.
Of course, it they hadn't been the bridge would likely have collapsed from dry rot long before it was old enough to be considered historic.
My point is, if it's so important then steps should have been taken to protect it. If the area around the bridge is prone to brush fires anyway, then it was just a matter of time.
That's not to excuse the parents of the child. I say, if they weren't unreasonably careless, give em a token fine and rebuild. If they were negligent, make the fine more serious. If the kid was given a pack of matches and told to go play outside, then call CPS, and I'll hold them down while you warm up your whipping arm. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Well said, Jux.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Thanks. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:What should the parents feel if not embarrassment? They might be held liable...so they might be feeling some financial pain too. Not sure what else to add.
Embarrassed is how you feel when you're caught with your zipper down.
These parents should be feeling shame and remorse, responsibility and perhaps some guilt. They should be feeling the need to make restitution whether or not they are legally required to do it.
Parents have a responsibility to keep their kids from doing this kind of thing. That means that you don't leave matches where a 7 year old kid can easily get them without you knowing about it. That means that you don't leave a 7 year old kid unsupervised. That means you teach your kids about the dangers of fire.
If the parents did all those things and the kid still managed to sneak out and set the fire, they should be feeling pretty angry at the kid along with the responsibility to invoke a severe punishment.
To me, embarrassed is just too weak a word to describe how parents ought to feel about such a thing.
I think the parents have about the same level of responsibility that they would have if they had started the fire by letting their campfire get out of control. When you build a campfire, it becomes your responsibility to keep it under control. When you take a 7 year old camping, it becomes your responsibility to keep the kid from starting fires. Its not arson, its negligence but its negligence with very serious consequences.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
Mormon Tea, or Squaw Tea or Indian Tea, depending on which valley you grew up in, is Ephedra. It will do anything that Sudoephedrea (Sudaphed) will do. Old timers used to pick it in the spring and make an effusion that they would keep in the fridge all summer. It takes care of colds, hay fever and any other congestion. It is one of the aproximatly 10 native plants that can grow in our little valley.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
So...with ephedra-containing supplements being outlawed in the US, and the heavy regulation on pseudoephedrine, is there anything illegal about using the plant?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote: It will do anything that Sudoephedrea (Sudaphed) will do.
Yes, but the concentration in most of the wild plants is pretty low. Maybe you do better if you can harvest it in just the right season or know an area where their are particularly potent plants.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
Yes, it has to be harvested in the spring, from an area that got sufficent moisture during the winter. We haven't had good Mormon tea here for about 8 years. Not enough moisture. (We average about 4 inches a year.) When it's made right the tea is almost black with a greasy film floating on top. A dosage would be about eight fluid oz's. With my metabiolism that felt about the same as two "red pills". For the record, the two red pills are a lot more pleasent. Scifi, no its not illegal.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
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I bet that kid's parents are quite embarrassed.
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But they're so beautiful! ![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)