quote:He added that a special ceremony would be held to purify the confession box.
Something about that line just makes me chuckle.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:However, Bishop Antonio Lanfranchi of Cesena-Sarsina took said the couple's behavior was "an outrage of notable proportions which bespeaks unutterable squalor."
OVER THE TOP! I love it.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
It would have been much cooler if he said it bespoke scum and villainy.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Hmmm...*adds to list*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Hmmm...*adds to list*
If someday it should happen that a victim must be found, She's got a little list, she's got a little list, Of society offenders who might well be underground, Who never would be missed Who never would be missed.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I love random Gilbert and Sullivan references. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Scott, you may be misunderstanding which list I meant.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I am shocked and appalled.
Seriously though, that is disgusting on many levels - including the complete disregard for tolerance. What really gets me is that so far those who have commented here are religious. They should be outraged at the couple for showing such hate filled actions toward G-d and religion. I can't tell if its just anti-Catholicism driving the comments, or some other motive.
I may not be Catholic, but my feelings are the same anger and disgust. Like to see them do the same thing at a Muslim mosque and a Jewish synogog. Legally they might have gotten the same thing (and that is good), but I doubt they would have gotten as much of a chuckle.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: I am shocked and appalled.
Of course you are.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Javert is religious? Since when?
Being tickled by the purple prose used in that quote doesn't mean condoning what the couple did.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
You know, Occasional, it's actually very difficult to hate an entity you don't believe exists.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I don't see what they were doing as "hate filled". Inappropriate, sure. Even disrespectful. I'm not seeing the hate, though.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Well, I could see doing this as a way of flipping the bird at the Catholic church. I think it's more likely that it was just a fetish thing, though, sort of like doing it in a semi-public area where you might get caught, only more so.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Javert is religious? Since when?
Being tickled by the purple prose used in that quote doesn't mean condoning what the couple did.
Yeah...I thought it was pretty clear I was a godless heathen.
But in all seriousness, I don't condone what the couple did.
As it seems that no one got hurt, however, I feel free to find it mildly amusing.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yeah. I'm a little skeptical of "for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place." I suspect there was some sort of added attraction to that particular place.
I disagree with the thread title, though. I really don't think their atheism is what the priest quoted in the article had a problem with.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I got the "aren't we rebellious and naughty, ooo how sexy" vibe from this rather than the hate-crime desecration thing.
edit to add: More like "Not even confessional booths are safe from horny teenagers."
edit to add again: Not teenagers! Just people who act like teenagers.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Ridiculously disrespectful and (from a religious perspective) pretty darn sacrilegious. I do find that the squalor is utterable, however.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I hope that the special purification ceremony mostly consists of a good scubbing with soap and hot water.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
And I thought the teenager who admitted to having sex on a roof on Dr. Phil was bad...
quote:The agency said the pair -- a 31-year-old laborer and a 32-year-old teacher -- defended their conduct saying: "We are atheists and for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place."
I always find it amusing when somebody thinks that people will actually be convinced by silly attitudes like that. Just wait till they see Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
'Til they see what? I mean, seriously, do you think it's going to come up in some Divine Review?
"Now, Mrs. Kasnuinas, it says here that while in your early thirties, you engaged in premarital sex inside a confessional. Would you like to atone for that now or later?"
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:And I thought the teenager who admitted to having sex on a roof on Dr. Phil was bad...
I'll say. Talk about risky sex. Dr. Phil doesn't look sturdy enough to me to support just a roof by itself, let alone two people having sex on said roof.
---
edit:
quote:I hope that the special purification ceremony mostly consists of a good scubbing with soap and hot water.
Yes, but the grumbling the janitor does must be in Latin and consist of a decade of complaint linked together by a common refrain.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
I just meant that if they expect public sympathy then they are in for a surprise.
EDIT: In response to Tom
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: I can't tell if its just anti-Catholicism driving the comments, or some other motive.
I'm pretty sure that it was anti-Catholicism in kmboots' case. She's just rabidly anti-Catholic.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
That's probably the first time non-Catholics have had sex in there. That has to count for something Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Yeah. I'm a little skeptical of "for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place." I suspect there was some sort of added attraction to that particular place.
I can just imagine how their conversation went:
"Where should we go have sex?" "Hmm . . . how about the confession booth in that church over there? It's as good a place as any."
Posted by Starsnuffer (Member # 8116) on :
I think it's incorrect in the same way you aren't supposed to have sex in walmart. I don't get what they meant by it's the same as any other place, because for normal people that would mean you shouldn't be having sex there...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Wait, you're not supposed to have sex in Walmart now?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
*takes Walmart off list*
edited for clarity
[ June 04, 2008, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:The agency said the pair -- a 31-year-old laborer and a 32-year-old teacher -- defended their conduct saying: "We are atheists and for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place."
What dumb-asses... You can tell that they're trying to make some sort of point with that remark, but it just makes them sound stupid. I can't believe that these are adults, and one is a teacher, no less!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: *takes off list*
That was fast.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
:: laugh ::
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:whistles innocently:
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
:shuffles feet uncomfortably:
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
If only confession booths were more portable, we could put one in Walmart and kill two birds.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Hmmmm, I think I know some girls that would go for something like this. However, that would mean I would have to go inside of a church....*shudders*
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: If only confession booths were more portable, we could put one in Walmart and kill two birds.
Probably not, some Walmart customers would assume its a port-a-potty even when faced with a lack of receptacle for their waste. Of this I am certain.
Beyond that if you put a confession booth in Walmart, people would be stuck in the booth for eternity, as spiritual cleanliness would be impossible to maintain upon exiting the booth.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm actually curious how long WalMart had been on Kate's list.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
That's true. Presumably if it was on someone's list and they were serious about said list, it wouldn't remain on the list for long given Wal-Mart's ubiquity.
<--beginning to wonder if Kate's list is just for show.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I got the "aren't we rebellious and naughty, ooo how sexy" vibe from this rather than the hate-crime desecration thing.
edit to add: More like "Not even confessional booths are safe from horny teenagers."
edit to add again: Not teenagers! Just people who act like teenagers.
QFT
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
The first edit was to agree with Dana that the headline "not safe from atheism" was probably missing the point.
The second was when I checked my assumption that they were teenagers and discovered that they were not.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
all of which was true, so I left it in...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: If only confession booths were more portable, we could put one in Walmart and kill two birds.
Does killing the birds make the sex better? Is it some kind of fertility ritual? Or do they live in Wal-Mart and the confessional is going to be erected on top of their abode, crushing them?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Maybe I am misunderstanding the QTF? (It has been one of those days.) I googled it and got...ah a different translation.
One that started with the spanish for "what" "Que the *expletive*".
So I thought you were asking what I meant.
It has been a day. Sigh.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: ...and the confessional is going to be erected...
(No pun intended.)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: If only confession booths were more portable, we could put one in Walmart and kill two birds.
Does killing the birds make the sex better? Is it some kind of fertility ritual?
::nods:: It does, and it is. Specifically, we're talking about pigeon blood. Oh, you can use other birds in a pinch, but if you're really going to do it right, the old fashioned way, they've got to be pigeons.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
"quoted for truth"?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: You know, Occasional, it's actually very difficult to hate an entity you don't believe exists.
I love that people have this quiet reverence for churches, even though many claim not to be religious. I don't believe in God, why exactly should I show any special respect for those who do, or the places in which they do it? No disrespect is necessary, but special respect is not warranted either.
I don't get suddenly feminist when I walk past abortion clinics (not a daily occurrence), but I don't hate abortions. I just don't believe in them very strongly- why should I show respect for something I don't believe?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Maybe I am misunderstanding the QTF? (It has been one of those days.) I googled it and got...ah a different translation.
One that started with the spanish for "what" "Que the *expletive*".
So I thought you were asking what I meant.
It has been a day. Sigh.
Um... nope.. I just typoed QFT-- "quoted for truth"
my bad
Edit: no, I didn't, you misread. I am VINDICATED!
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
And I...am having one of those days.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I'm relieved to hear that "QFT" stands for "quoted for truth". I've had a different group of words (but the same basic idea) go through my head whenever I've seen that one. Now I won't cringe whenever I see it. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I don't believe in God, why exactly should I show any special respect for those who do, or the places in which they do it? No disrespect is necessary, but special respect is not warranted either.
What's the difference between "respect" and "special respect"?
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
I interpreted "special respect" to mean respect that is above and beyond the normal respect. For example, I think many people believe that one should be more respectful in a church than in, say, a grocery store.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by Threads: I interpreted "special respect" to mean respect that is above and beyond the normal respect. For example, I think many people believe that one should be more respectful in a church than in, say, a grocery store.
I think equal amounts of respect would lead to different limits on behavior.
I would raise my voice in a grocery store to talk to my wife at the opposite end of the aisle, but still fully respect the rules/expectations of the owners of the store. Raising my voice in a church (in most circumstances) would show disrespect.
I think Orincoro might mean "reverence" by "special respect".
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I'm sure there's a clever joke about catholicism and atheism in this, but I just can't grasp it.
Sure, if by "joke" you mean "pick-up line." Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
EuroTrip anyone?
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Some people are idiots.
And give a bad name to atheists. Eesh. Bad publicity is something to be avoided, people!
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I just want to take this opportunity to say, NOWHERE IS SAFE FROM ATHEISM! MUAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I just don't believe in them very strongly- why should I show respect for something I don't believe?
Because they should also respect the things that matter to you. It isn't the belief you are showing respect for, but the fact that some people believe it strongly.
At least that is how I view it, most of the time.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Originally posted by Orincoro: I just don't believe in them very strongly- why should I show respect for something I don't believe?
...Because when you go into a privately owned place that's open to the public, you agree to respect its rules. I may think it's stupid to have to wear a jacket and tie to go to a restaurant, but I agree to follow that rule by choosing to dine there.
Given the historic and architectural importance of many cathedrals (and for that matter, temples, mosques, shrines, etc.) it would be a crying shame if those in charge stopped allowing admission to the public for fear of them behaving like idiots.
I'm not exactly offended by what they did- I'm kind of of the opinion that if God exists, he's above such petty displays of pique, and if not, it really doesn't matter- but I think even- maybe especially- "devout" atheists really ought to be saying, "You morons. What did you think you were proving?"
That said...
quote:I'm sure there's a clever joke about catholicism and atheism in this, but I just can't grasp it.
"I hope, with an attitude like that, you're now heading to Confession!"
"As a matter of fact, I am. Wanna join me?"
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Because they should also respect the things that matter to you. It isn't the belief you are showing respect for, but the fact that some people believe it strongly.
It's not even that. It's that you respect the people, and they put a high value on this thing.
If your friend's mother asks you not to play basketball in the living room so you don't accidentally break her shelf of Hummel figurines, you don't -- not because the figurines are valuable to you, but because she as a human being is valuable to you and you do not wish to cause her emotional distress (or, at the very least, you enjoy visiting your friend and recognize that her continued goodwill is required.)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
This is my issue with the subject line of the thread. How about, "not even confessional booths are safe from a lack of decorum?"
Athiests are as able as (and in many cases more able than) religious people to be understanding of the feelings of others. This is just a case of two people acting out sexually. Atheism didn't cause them to be screwed up people.
I hasten to add that it's ridiculous to assume that religious people don't do this type of thing from time to time. I'm sure it happens.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Because they should also respect the things that matter to you. It isn't the belief you are showing respect for, but the fact that some people believe it strongly.
It's not even that. It's that you respect the people, and they put a high value on this thing.
If your friend's mother asks you not to play basketball in the living room so you don't accidentally break her shelf of Hummel figurines, you don't -- not because the figurines are valuable to you, but because she as a human being is valuable to you and you do not wish to cause her emotional distress (or, at the very least, you enjoy visiting your friend and recognize that her continued goodwill is required.)
Bingo! You don't do things like this in a Cathedral out of respect for the people who believe it a sacred place whether you share that belief or not.
Its not about whether you are Catholic or Athiest, its not about whether you share the beliefs or find them inane. Its about whether you respect the people enough to grant them the simple courtesy of not defiling their stuff.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: This is my issue with the subject line of the thread. How about, "not even confessional booths are safe from a lack of decorum?"
Athiests are as able as (and in many cases more able than) religious people to be understanding of the feelings of others. This is just a case of two people acting out sexually. Atheism didn't cause them to be screwed up people.
I hasten to add that it's ridiculous to assume that religious people don't do this type of thing from time to time. I'm sure it happens.
Agreed.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I'm an atheist. These people are gross. Of course anything beyond hugging, handholding, and kisses that theoretically could have been between family members are all I ever need to see in public.
I think the thing that people forget is that atheists aren't a uniform group. I can't speak for all atheists, but in a lot of cases, atheists reject their families' beliefs on a very individual and personal basis. Even if they don't believe, they certainly know better than to do a lot of things. Generally this is a result of parenting.
Also, most sane adults know better to hop in a closet and engage in sexual activity if a meeting of any kind is going on in the room that contains said closet. To me, the "we're atheists" defense has zero credibility.
I really hate it when people make generalizations about atheists.
These people aren't doing any favors to the Goth community either.
Okay, so what would you think of the story if the couple was in the Italian state house and said, "oh, we're Americans" as their defense?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well, it's equally ridiculous. The defense they used is just dumb, what they were doing is just socially unacceptable. Whether or not religious people want to see it as an affront to God is immaterial to me- it's just indecent.
I show no reverence for churches or cathedrals or religious ceremonies, because I find them ridiculous. I am sometimes bothered by the lack of delineation between "respect" and "decorum" or "reverence." I think personal respect is important, and I think reverence is dangerous. Respect for a group of religious people, and respect for the actual church they use are two different things. I am not reverent of churches, and find them just as other buildings are. I don't worry that I am thinking bad thoughts in church, and since I regularly perform in a particular church as part of a university performance group, this is my only call to be in a church.
When I'm there, I am sometimes perplexed by the superstitious attitudes of others, some of whom claim not even to be religious. I remember putting my foot on someone's skateboard, and rolling it a few inches during an idle moment between rehearsals, and being told... "dude, you're in a church..." Well, so what? In that particular case, I just couldn't see the correlation between the quiet movement of my foot and the setting- God doesn't want people rolling on his floors? And the person who said this is not religious. The superstitiously reverent and careful attitude that must be maintained in a church, even in solitude, doesn't resonate with me.
Now, I'm not going to be having sex in the confessional, but I wouldn't do that anywhere, just like I wouldn't raise my voice in a movie theater, because its just rude.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I show no reverence for churches or cathedrals or religious ceremonies, because I find them ridiculous.
Showing less reverence for something is fine. Showing no reverence simply because it has no value to you indicates that the people who revere it have no value to you, either.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Orincoro: The subject is intentionally alittle deceptive in order to be humorous. It plays on the long standing incorrect belief that atheism is like some sort of disease that will cause people to abandon morality. I found the people's defense that their atheism makes them doing it in a church just like doing it anywhere else entertaining, and decided to create a thread where I could enjoy hatrackers take it wherever they would.
The bishop's translated remarks were also quite funny IMHO.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I show no reverence for churches or cathedrals or religious ceremonies, because I find them ridiculous.
Showing less reverence for something is fine. Showing no reverence simply because it has no value to you indicates that the people who revere it have no value to you, either.
Tom, are you using reverence as synonymic with respect? I don't have any reverence for monotheistic religious buildings, nor will I act as if I did, but I'll show respect for them.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'll show respect, but not reverence. I don't, let's say, worry particularly about my own behavior or thinking, and I am aware that I am only acting respectful, not feeling reverent.
Posted by Boothby171 (Member # 807) on :
Well, they're certainly not my type of atheists! Must be from differing sects.
But seroiusly, atheism shouldn't mean that you're an insensitive moron about things. Even if they don't respect "God," the least they could have done was shown respect for the place where people show their respect for God.
I'd have to think that there was not a little bit of anger involved in the act...
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I suppose there might have been anger, but I think people who act out sexually in public places are just thrill seeking, it's a symptom of having zero impulse control, and being less than smart.
Again, difficult for religious people to understand as it is, atheists not only "don't respect God" they don't believe that there is anything to respect. We all have a cultural image of a "God" but the cultural image is not something to be respected or revered if one does not see it as symbolic of a deity. I see it as symbolic of a social construction, and I don't revere that symbol.
:Unrelated: It is something interesting I ran across in my musicology studies, that some musical and linguistic theorists have suggested that hieroglyphic symbolism, such as the word "God" in English, or by extension a weak-cadential IV-I figure in western music (the "Amen" chords), are not merely reflections, or placeholders of inarticulate belief, but the actual roots of belief themselves. Without the deeply contextual use of the word "god" in our culture, we might not actually be reminded often of a need for such a concept in our lives- if the symbol were not articulated, then the belief might not exist.
This particular chapter was on 20th century symbolism, and how folk themes (actual melodies) were transmitted directly into popular compositions, as hieroglyphic symbols of identity, without which symbols, a culture would have no means of transmitting itself across generations. The idea was that the symbols, such as melodies, exist and are altered through history, but that they are largely monolithic structures from which each generation draws its own unique and contextualized conclusions- sort of like the black obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey. We always assume that we create our cultural identity and express it through art, but in large part, we are forced to identify with art and symbols that are already there for us to interpret. I find that my view of "God" is reconciled with that idea.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boothby171: Well, they're certainly not my type of atheists! Must be from differing sects.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Confession booth sects
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"I'm relieved to hear that "QFT" stands for "quoted for truth". I've had a different group of words...Now I won't cringe whenever I see it."
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