I have two children in Israel. I haven't seen either of them for 13 years, because of a rabbinic restraining order my ex got against me.
My daughter turned 16 over the weekend. This morning, I received an e-mail from a friend telling me that (a) my daughter has a Facebook account, (b) she has her birthdate displaying with the year fudged to make her seem like she just turned 25 instead of 16, and (c) her profile is open to the public, and not only to people she's friends with on Facebook.
None of that seems very safe to me. Should I let my ex know about this? We are not on good terms, and if my ex knew a magic word that would make me not exist (and never have existed) without making our two kids disappear, I wouldn't be typing this right now.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Don't think about your ex, since he'd rather not think about you.
Think about your daughter.
If it were mine, I'd walk through hell (and seems like that's what you might have to do) and back to keep her as safe as I could, even if I couldn't see her in the forseeable future and hadn't in 13 years.
Can't say that you SHOULD, but I think you want to or you wouldn't be posting this thread. I think it's worth the crap you might take contacting him to let him know someone let you know this.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Could the friend who originally saw it mention this to him? Or do you know anyone else who would be on good enough terms to point this out to him? If so, that might be more effective than doing it yourself.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:None of that seems very safe to me. Should I let my ex know about this?
Yes. I think you are right to think that isn't safe online behavior for a teenager.
I would also make it clear that a friend had informed you of this, so that the ex does not think you were looking for your daughter on facebook to try to contact her secretly online or anything like that.
--Enigmatic
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I can't say that I see much of a problem here. Facebook doesn't have any sort of official status, and so can't get her into any legal trouble (that I know of).
This seems to me like something you would expect of a 16 year old girl. I guess the real question you need to answer is: What are her motives for doing this? If she is trying to attract an older guy, then I could see how it might be a problem, obviously. But what if she's just trying to seem more mature? Trying to legitimize her statements?
The best course of action that I can see would be to get more information. If you can send her a message (maybe through this very same Facebook account), then talk to her directly. If that isn't possible, then maybe do as ricree suggested and go through an intermediary.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Does the restraining order prevent you from contacting your daughter on Facebook? Aren't they usually fairly specific? If not, you could avoid talking to your ex at all, unless of course your daughter is unlikely to take advice from you.
Also, at 16 is she by any chance capable under whatever law the restraining order deals with of making her own decisions? In Norway that would be the age of consent, although not of majority.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Why did the friend contact you instead of her mother?
If it is a mutual friend, then I'm guessing the friend did contact your daughter's mother, in which I don't know that there's anything else you could do.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
On my myspace it says im 26 or something but thats Only because i dont want to put my real age.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
My 17-year-old has a public facebook page with a fudged birthdate, too. Her desk is about 10 feet from mine. She is, like most teenagers, secretive and up to stuff.
I don't know how safe it is; I like to think that the fact that I know a lot about what she is up to automatically makes it safer. I'm sure I'm fooling myself .
If my ex let me know that he had found out about a "secret" online aspect of her identity, I would appreciate the heads-up. I'd probably go ahead and give him additional info about what I knew of her online activities and what steps I took to keep an eye on things. We have a very amicable and easy-going co-parenting relationship and he lives a mile away, which is very different from your circumstances.
If her facebook page seems particularly dangerous to you, there may be facebook channels you can go through to report the age issue. However, she could easily make another page and probably would.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Lisa,
Could you just forward your friend's email to your ex? That way he'd see it was your friend who discovered it and not that you were looking for your daughter on facebook. You probably wouldn't even have to include your own comments - just an FYI.
It's possible he already knows about it and doesn't consider it a safety concern. It's also possible your daughter doesn't realize it's public.
T:man, Do you think the different age makes you more safe? Or less?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Well, I don't know at all.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Does the restraining order prevent you from contacting your daughter on Facebook? Aren't they usually fairly specific?
It translates into English as "any contact whatsoever".
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: If not, you could avoid talking to your ex at all, unless of course your daughter is unlikely to take advice from you.
Also, at 16 is she by any chance capable under whatever law the restraining order deals with of making her own decisions? In Norway that would be the age of consent, although not of majority.
I don't think so. The restraining order explicitly said until they're 18. I'm also fairly sure that in two years, my ex will interpret that to mean "when they're both 18", which will be two years more.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Why did the friend contact you instead of her mother?
If it is a mutual friend, then I'm guessing the friend did contact your daughter's mother, in which I don't know that there's anything else you could do.
It's not a mutual friend. We don't have any mutual friends. I think I got one friend in the divorce, but she lives in Israel, and I haven't heard from her for years.
(No, there wasn't a literal division of friends in the divorce, but it happens that way, particularly when I was elsewhere afterwards, and my ex got to define reality for them.)
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: Could you just forward your friend's email to your ex? That way he'd see it was your friend who discovered it and not that you were looking for your daughter on facebook. You probably wouldn't even have to include your own comments - just an FYI.
That's a really good idea. I'm sure it'll backfire on me somehow anyway, but it's the best I can think of.
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
What is a rabbinic restraining order?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I actually would include a comment, along the lines of "I'm not trying to question your parenting, I just want to make sure you're aware of this. I know some people use fake ages on-line to avoid predators, but if that's not what's going on I thought you should know."
Not like you can really make the relationship with your ex worse, but it doesn't hurt to try not to upset her anyway. Might make things easier in 2 years when you try to contact your daughter.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Selran: What is a rabbinic restraining order?
I'd also like to know what this is.
Does it hold any non-religious legal standing? Meaning, if you were to break it, would you suffer any legal or personal consequence?
If you do, is the level of consequence worth it to contact your children when it's about their safety?
Those are questions only you can answer, of course.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Selran: What is a rabbinic restraining order?
In Israel, there are two types of court. There's the secular state court, and there's the religious courts. Each religion gets to run their own. As I understand it, there are Muslim and Christian court systems, and among other things, they deal with marriage and divorce. As the Jewish (rabbinic) court system does for Jews.
When you're Jewish and you get divorced in Israel, the religious divorce happens in the rabbinic courts. The actual legal divorce agreement can be ratified either in the secular courts or the rabbinic courts, depending on your choice. But whichever you choose, they have jurisdiction over everything relating to the divorce from that point on.
The one exception, again, as I understand it, is child support, which can be dealt with by either court system, regardless of where the divorce started off.
Our divorce, of course, went through the rabbinic system. I imagine that even had it not, my ex might have been able to pull this kind of dirty trick in the rabbinic courts. I was told by one lawyer that if I tried contesting the child support in a secular court, I could conceivably get the whole thing moved there, but I have religious qualms about that.
And yes, a rabbinic restraining order is enforceable in Israel. I violate it, I can go to jail.
The purpose of the restraining order... well, the divorce agreement had these two clauses in it:
Visitation will be determined by a psychologist, psychiatrist or social worker agreed upon mutually by the two parties.
Both parties will have full communication with the children (not in person) until or unless a psychologist, psychiatrist or social worker mutually agreed upon by the two parties says otherwise.
My ex's lawyer put the first clause in, and I read it as "there'll never be visitation". So I asked for, and got, the second clause. The restraining order was an end run around that.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
You're right. There's no way to do this that isn't going to get twisted somehow because of the history involved. I'd ask your friend to contact your ex, preferably by forwarding from their sent mail the one they sent to you.
I suspect your ex will have you spamblocked and any attempt you make directly will not get through. Plus your friend sending the email will not violate the restraining order, where you forwarding it to Israel might.
Someone definitely needs to know about this profile and take action. I truly wish you could be there to work with your daughter on this.
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
Was this friend looking up your kids on your behalf at your suggestion so you have a way to check on your kids and skirt the restraining order, or was she honestly doing it on her own out of concern for you? I'm not judging either way. If it was the later you could see a lawyer with her, haver make an affidavit stating she was acting on her own, then have the lawyer send a letter to you ex stating your concerns.
That's the best I can offer. It sounds like a horrible situation. I'm sorry.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
There seems to be an easy answer to this (I think), just make up a throw away email and tell the mother that you (an anonymous person) wanted to let her know that her daughter has a Facebook account with a fake birthday. Seems simple enough to me. Mom gets to know and no orders are violated.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Sign up for an anonymous yahoo email account and warn your ex that way. Don't let them even know where it's coming from.
Let us know what happens.
Edit: Valentine beat me to it. Serves me right for going afk (and doing work) whilst posting.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The restraining order is against contacting the kids, not the ex, correct? If so, I agree with the forward the e-mail suggestion.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
As a computer teacher for middle school aged children (a little younger than 16, but much of the same applies) I ran across a lot of strategies that people have used to prevent children from being preyed upon by pedophiles. Many of these involved not giving out your age online. Some of them involved giving out an intentionally older age, so that people looking for 12 year old girls will bypass a person whose profile indicates she is, say 25. Not saying this is why she did it, but it's worth noting that fudging her age might not be a bad thing. (although IMO giving out your photograph makes for a bad situation no matter how you slice it)
quote:Why did the friend contact you instead of her mother?
I'm confused. Isn't Lisa her mother?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: Could you just forward your friend's email to your ex? That way he'd see it was your friend who discovered it and not that you were looking for your daughter on facebook. You probably wouldn't even have to include your own comments - just an FYI.
That's a really good idea. I'm sure it'll backfire on me somehow anyway, but it's the best I can think of.
I'd only suggest that considering you haven't seen her in 13 years, getting her in trouble with her father might not be the best approach if you want her back in your life at some point. I'd wait till she's 18, then contact her directly.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: I suspect your ex will have you spamblocked and any attempt you make directly will not get through. Plus your friend sending the email will not violate the restraining order, where you forwarding it to Israel might.
Do you have a history of prophecy? I forwarded the e-mail I got from my friend to my ex's Gmail account, and it bounced.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Selran: Was this friend looking up your kids on your behalf at your suggestion so you have a way to check on your kids and skirt the restraining order, or was she honestly doing it on her own out of concern for you?
I didn't put her up to it. I can't say truthfully that I might not have had I thought of it, though.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Can you contact a rabbi who might have some influence with your ex or your daughter?
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Geesh Lisa! What a difficult situation.
I'd probably be snooping, illegally or legally in any way I could to check up on my kids.
((((Lisa))))
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I know this is not helpful, but I do not understand the ex here. Yes, the situation is awkward and unique, but blocking their father out of their lives is going to leave a hole there. If there was abuse, yeah, then you can cut someone out of the kid's life, but that isn't the case here. And the fact that you learn something which may concern the safety of your and her child and you can't share it with her is just crazy. After 13 years, she needs to get over it and think about what is healthiest for her kids.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Scholarette, it's clear you've never been divorced. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
scholarette, I'm sure she is doing what she believes to be healthiest for her kids. Mile in her shoes, etc.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I guess I am seeing it from a different perspective. A few years back, my mil told my father il that it greatly upset my husband when he called and so my fil did as he was told and stopped calling. I know that my mil thought she was doing good, but I saw just how hurt my husband by his father's absense in his life (his dad works long weird hours and is in China, so it is hard for us to call him and we didn't know for like a year about my mil's comment). I also was very annoyed at my mils initial refusal to attend my child's first b-day party because I had also invited my fil and his serious gf (it has been over a decade since they divorced so it wasn't like the woman who was replacing her).
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Can you contact a rabbi who might have some influence with your ex or your daughter?
Honestly? The odds of my finding a rabbi of the kind my ex would listen to are extremely slim. But to make things worse, if he were to tell her to act differently in this area, he'd no longer be a member of the set of rabbis she'd listen to.
There are religious issues involved, but for her, this is much more personal.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: I know this is not helpful, but I do not understand the ex here. Yes, the situation is awkward and unique, but blocking their father out of their lives is going to leave a hole there. If there was abuse, yeah, then you can cut someone out of the kid's life, but that isn't the case here. And the fact that you learn something which may concern the safety of your and her child and you can't share it with her is just crazy. After 13 years, she needs to get over it and think about what is healthiest for her kids.
I had a friend at work while I was living in Israel who was also friends with my ex and family. She didn't know about my past, so I was able to work the conversation around to my ex's family.
She told me that she didn't know the whole story about the missing father, but that she got the impression that there might have been some sort of abuse involved.
I have no idea whether my ex made up a story of abuse, or whether that's just the kind of impression you get when someone has been declared a non-person, not to be discussed.
I do know that people who were close friends of mine before all of this, some of whom I told I was going to transition before I left and who were shocked, but still friendly, now treat me like I have ebola. They won't tell me why, and unfortunately, I have a vivid imagination, so the possible reasons I can think of range from bad to Really Very Bad.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I'm confused between the 'missing father' bit and what I thought I knew about Lisa's gender. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Re-read the last paragraph of her previous post, it might clear it up for you.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
edited.
[ June 12, 2008, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: steven ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: scholarette, I'm sure she is doing what she believes to be healthiest for her kids. Mile in her shoes, etc.
I've spent years trying to convince myself of that. But the truth is, she grew up in Kansas City, and got teased all the time for being Jewish. She hates being different with a fiery passion that defies description. She got the restraining order when she met the guy she eventually married, and it was clear that she did so because she felt that no one would ever marry her with the prospect of a freak such as me showing up.
True or not, I understand her feeling that way. And I can see her viewing that as protecting the kids by extension, because if my having contact with them would prevent her from remarrying, that wouldn't be good for them.
Still, she agreed to allow me communication with them when we divorced, and no matter what her reasons for abrogating that, it was a cheap move.
When my daughter was about 6 1/2, I met with my ex and her husband. They brought the shrink who advised the Beit Din to issue the restraining order, and I brought one myself. During the meeting, they criticized me for not having sent the children birthday presents. I did send them presents when my daughter was 4 and my son was 2, but before their next birthdays rolled around, I got served with the restraining order, and I was afraid to.
They were very mocking about that. My ex's shrink said, "And you think the restraining order included presents? Who are you kidding?" So a few months later, when it was their birthdays again, I bought a couple of Jewish books, wrote a note in the inside covers, wrapped them, and left them leaning against their front door in the middle of the day.
That night, I got an e-mail from my ex saying that what I did was irresponsible and could have caused irreperable damage to the children, and was in violation of the restraining order, and that if I did it again, she'd have me thrown in jail.
I found out later that she'd destroyed the books and bought them new copies of the same books, so that the notes I wrote would be gone.
So yes, I'm sure that she's even convinced herself that she's doing this for the good of the children, but in all honesty, it's pretty clear that she's doing it because she wants to pretend I never existed.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Edit--never mind. She didn't object, so I guess she must be okay with it.
Edit again--looks like I was correct in my initial post. I didn't save the text of it, but it basically just asked steven to remove his post.
[ June 12, 2008, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Actually, she has made it very clear on at least one occasion, Jake, IIRC.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: Actually, she has made it very clear on at least one occasion, Jake, IIRC.
Could you humor me, then? Just as a personal favor?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Ask PJ.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Are you seriously telling her to ask the mod to remove your post, which you could edit as common courtesy? That's low.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: Ask PJ.
Wait--so you provided personal information about someone other than yourself, and when they personally asked you to remove it, you refused to do so? Why on earth?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm usually pretty strongly opposed to thread deletion, but in this case I'd support it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
No kidding. Sheesh, steven, your daughter posts here; do you want her to see you being a mule?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Oops. Sorry. Didn't mean to rip up personal stuff.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It was a perfectly legitimate question, KoM. It's just that how it was to be answered should have been Lisa's call rather than steven's.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Definitely, unbelievably rude....steven!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It isn't your fault, KoM. There'll always be people who think they're entitled to answer for others and say whatever they want about them. And there'll always be people who'll excuse it by saying, "But everyone already knew."
And I can't delete it. I've said before that I don't think it's right to delete other people's posts. The only time I can recall deleting a thread was when it was a duplicate and that was pointed out to me before anyone posted anything of content.
I'm not going to do something I think is wrong just because it personally inconveniences me. But I appreciate what you said, Noemon.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I don't do personal favors for Lisa, because she never apologizes for her behavior here.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Everyone didn't know. I didn't know. It doesn't matter. Rude is rude.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
steven: That doesn't excuse you blurting that out like you did. Don't think of it as a favor for Lisa, Think of it as a favor for anyone with personal information they wouldn't want posted on a public forum (which is most likely *everyone*)
Lisa: (((Lisa)))
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I actually thought there's be 3 or 4 responses saying exactly what I did, all with the same time stamp. I wouldn't have said it otherwise, peeps.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Well, you were wrong, weren't ya!
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Lisa has, IIRC, on at least 1 or 2 occasions, said it's actually OK to mention what I did here, because she herself has mentioned it openly before. This request is a departure, in my understanding, from that previous opinion. Given that, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is yelling at me. How, given what I just said, was I supposed to know it's verboten?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Lisa has always been circumspect about this topic on this forum (I think that you're remembering incorrectly when you say that she's been direct about it here). Out of respect for that, most people who are privy to that information left it to her to answer or not, as she saw fit.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: Lisa has, IIRC, on at least 1 or 2 occasions, said it's actually OK to mention what I did here, because she herself has mentioned it openly before. This request is a departure, in my understanding, from that previous opinion. Given that, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is yelling at me. How, given what I just said, was I supposed to know it's verboten?
But you know I'm here on this thread. If I want to answer, I can answer. It's not like I need help.
I retract the request that you delete the comment as a favor to me. I'll only ask that you do so because it's the right thing to do. If you're the kind of person who will do something wrong and then refuse to fix it when it's very easy to fix because he holds a grudge against the person in question, so be it.
I try not to say it as bluntly as you did, both because it bugs me to think about it too much, and because I know that it bugs other people as well. I try not to be too "in your face" about it.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: Lisa has, IIRC, on at least 1 or 2 occasions, said it's actually OK to mention what I did here, because she herself has mentioned it openly before. This request is a departure, in my understanding, from that previous opinion. Given that, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is yelling at me. How, given what I just said, was I supposed to know it's verboten?
Leaving aside arguments about whether or not your understanding of the situation with regard to this information is correct, given that you're now aware of the fact that it isn't a subject that she considers open for discussion here, is it safe to assume that you're on your way back to the last page to delete your post?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
IIRC, there was a very specific exchange where someone apologized to her for mentioning it here, and she said it was OK, because she had been very open about it already here. I think it's a little ridiculous to expect me not to catch people up to speed on this very convoluted situation. I honestly meant no harm, and still don't. The story doesn't make nearly as much sense without that fact about her, IMHO. Having said that, the post is edited. Frack all of you. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: IIRC, there was a very specific exchange where someone apologized to her for mentioning it here, and she said it was OK, because she had been very open about it already here.
I wrote that because I didn't want the person in question to feel bad about it. They weren't as blunt about it as you were, though.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Wait what, was the comment? I only sign on hatrack once a day and someone deleted it. I have no idea what you are arguing about.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I said it the way I did because I wanted to be sure KoM understood. I'm not going to apologize for this, but, Lisa, I hope you've learned that pissing people off and then refusing to apologize does have consequences. Truthfully, I seriously doubt that your defenders here have read the threads and posts of yours that I am protesting. For that matter, if PJ or the Cards actually did something about your behavior, I wouldn't feel it necessary to cop a 'tude. It's nothing personal, but somebody needs to rein you in, unless you're going to start reining yourself in. Please? Would you do that?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Thanks for editing your post, steven.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"Wait what, was the comment? I only sign on hatrack once a day and someone deleted it. I have no idea what you are arguing about."
Lisa, why not just be open about it, like you have been before?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: I said it the way I did because I wanted to be sure KoM understood. I'm not going to apologize for this, but, Lisa, I hope you've learned that pissing people off and then refusing to apologize does have consequences. Truthfully, I seriously doubt that your defenders here have read the threads and posts of yours that I am protesting. For that matter, if PJ or the Cards actually did something about your behavior, I wouldn't feel it necessary to cop a 'tude. It's nothing personal, but somebody needs to rein you in, unless you're going to start reining yourself in. Please? Would you do that?
Actually, I'm quite sure that the people who were suggesting that you edit that post did read those posts.
I don't really understand you, steven. The other day, I did a personal favor for someone who has ripped me up one side and down the other on this board in ways that I found inappropriate. I didn't do it as an overture or anything; I did it because I could, and because holding grudges is a good way to cut yourself off from people of value in one area just because you can't get along in another.
I was going to thank you for editing that post, but it's pretty obvious that you did it because you felt you were being dogpiled, and not at all because you realized it was the right thing to do.
Does it occur to you that maybe the people who were saying you should edit it weren't "defending Lisa", but merely thought that what you did was inappropriate, regardless of who was involved?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Ug--I posted my thanks before I'd seen steven's explanation. I still appreciate your deleting the post in question, but do you honestly think that your actions here have somehow "taught Lisa a lesson" (and incidentally, if you're more or less admitting to that having been your motivation here, does that mean that you were being dishonest when you said that you had no idea that your post would be viewed as being out of line?)?
Steven, I've read enough of Lisa's posts here to know exactly what you're objecting to with regard to them. I strongly dislike the tone that she often takes, myself, and I vehemently disagree with her on some pretty key issues. My objection to your posts here has nothing to do with Lisa personally, however. It wouldn't matter who you'd done that do; it was wrong, period.
[Edit--I'm typing too slowly! Post changed to accurately reflect which post it was that I was responding to]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: "Wait what, was the comment? I only sign on hatrack once a day and someone deleted it. I have no idea what you are arguing about."
Lisa, why not just be open about it, like you have been before?
Because I frakking hate it. If there'd been a way to ask the question I wanted to ask here without either lying or letting it slip a little, I would have done so, but there isn't. I avoided pronouns as much as I possibly could. It may be central to why my ex is acting this way, but it wasn't, I don't think, central to the question I was asking advice about.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Really doesn't matter to me, especially if it is a delicate topic.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"Ug--I posted my thanks before I'd seen steven's explanation. I still appreciate your deleting the post in question, but do you honestly think that your actions here have somehow "taught Lisa a lesson" (and incidentally, if you're more or less admitting to that having been your motivation here, does that mean that you were being dishonest when you said that you had no idea that your post would be viewed as being out of line?)?
I posted it with the intent of clarification to KoM. I left it for a different reason, one that I still agree with.
In a general sense, I think it's slightly ridiculous to reveal something like this on the internet...and then try and take it back later.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I'm not even going to go over to sake river. Without even looking, I know I'm getting trashed behind my back over there, and frack every single one of you who's doing it. Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
But not me right?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Frack anybody who backstabs over there as their primary method of release for frustration at what happens here. I'm not going to lie and say the hatrack gossip thread is the reason I don't read or post there now, but some of the things that get said in that thread sure do belie the philosophies and religions that the people saying those things claim to believe/follow. IOW, Christians my ass. T:Man, I don't even know if you post there or not.
You guys, the backstabbing there is nasty. It's amazing how some of you are members of religions that claim to foster virtues like honesty and avoiding gossip...and yet you're all up in that thread, stabbing backs.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You're a member there under the name al. I don't know that I've seen you around much over there lately, but you've certainly been active in the past. If people are posting about you (and since I can't get there from work, I don't know one way or the other if they are or not) in full expectation that you're reading what they're writing, can that really be considered backstabbing?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
steven, nobody has mentioned this there. The last post was from yesterday wherein Noemon was making fun of me for smelling like "that stuff they use in institutions when they're trying to cover up the odor of vomit."
quote:Originally posted by steven: You guys, the backstabbing there is nasty.
Word up. I may smell like mothballs and Pine-Sol, but that was totally over the top.
---
Edited to add: Actually, Jesse's laughing at Noemon's slander is the last post. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
(*glares* Yeah, you. Backstabber. Right in my face!)
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I admit that I stabbed a few backs while I was posting there, but I really did my best to control myself. I am not advocating perfection, but the joy and enthusiasm and downright verve with which backs are stabbed there is a little disconcerting, in view of the participants' stated beliefs about religion, etc. There's no shame, and backs are stabbed with a total lack of decorum. It's joyous. How sad. Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: I'm not even going to go over to sake river. Without even looking, I know I'm getting trashed behind my back over there, and frack every single one of you who's doing it.
I hope you're enjoying your persecution complex, seeing as how that hasn't happened at all.
--Enigmatic
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
And what Noemon said.
Here, not the part there about me and the smelling.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"I hope you're enjoying your persecution complex, seeing as how that hasn't happened at all."
I refuse to check. I know that sooner or later, it'll start up again. Who doubts that fact?
I at least try to control myself in that area.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Sara, my memory is incredibly long, as I think some jatraqueros have seen at times. I remember critical posts almost word for word years later. Yours are no exception.
I still don't play the piccolo, Sara. Do you still think I should start? 'Cos I remember a certain raw milk thread where I taught you a little lesson about e. coli and grain-fed versus grass-fed cows.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I've gone over there once or twice after I've been dogpiled in a thread on the middle east, or something. I've never seen anyone say anything there that they wouldn't say here.
But I just checked, because you had me curious, and it's been two days since the last post in the Hatrack Gossip thread.
Is something else bothering you, steven? Honestly, I mean it's not like you and I agree very often here, if at all, but you seem really extra on edge.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"is something else bothering you, steven? Honestly, I mean it's not like you and I agree very often here, if at all, but you seem really extra on edge."
Wow, you're confused if you think I'm in the mood to talk to you right now. Seriously, can you not take a hint or fifty? Babe, I'm long-suffering about banning people around here, because I've been banned from a couple of boards, and, when I asked PJ to ban you, I meant it. It took me a long time to get frustrated enough.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Gee, I can't imagine how you could have been banned from a couple of boards...
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
If you don't want to talk to Lisa, posting in a thread she started to ask a question perhaps isn't the most effective way to do it.
Posted by bootjes (Member # 11624) on :
I am completely new here but I like to express my sympathies for you Lisa.
I have 4 kids. The idea of not being able to communicate with them takes my heart apart.
praying for you (if that is not offensive)
JJ
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Hi Bootjes I'm the T Yeah welcome to hatrack!!!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by bootjes: I am completely new here but I like to express my sympathies for you Lisa.
I have 4 kids. The idea of not being able to communicate with them takes my heart apart.
praying for you (if that is not offensive)
JJ
Thanks, JJ.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"Gee, I can't imagine how you could have been banned from a couple of boards..."
The same way you would be if I were the mod here. Seriously.
"If you don't want to talk to Lisa, posting in a thread she started to ask a question perhaps isn't the most effective way to do it."
Why do you assume ignoring the problem will fix it? I mean, I use that tactic in a general sense, but it doesn't matter if I ignore her or not, she's here unless banned. I think we all agree on that. She cannot be changed through pleading, swearing, screaming, or anything else that I've seen. I think we all agree on that as well. Not only that, she isn't going to change on her own. Take her or leave her, she's Lisa. Does anyone have the slightest evidence that I'm wrong? No.
ElJay, you're probably the second or third worst offender with the backstabbing. You're shameless. Granted, you don't talk about religion a lot, so there's not a lot to complain about in that regard. That's about all the good that I can say.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I don't think ignoring Lisa will change her one whit. But it seems pretty silly to post in her thread and then tell her you don't want to talk to her when she responds.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: steven, nobody has mentioned this there. The last post was from yesterday wherein Noemon was making fun of me for smelling like "that stuff they use in institutions when they're trying to cover up the odor of vomit."
I was merely pointing out a fact. ::nods::
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Drama, drama.
At least now I know how to keep steven away from SR: the Gossip thread in which no real gossip actually occurs.
Honestly, if you post something on a public forum, people should be allowed to talk about it in any context. And it's definitely not town gossip when you shout it out in the middle of town square.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) gos·sip /ˈgɒsəp/ –noun 1. idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others: the endless gossip about Hollywood stars. 2. light, familiar talk or writing. 3. Also, gos·sip·er, gos·sip·per. a person given to tattling or idle talk.
I'd say the Hatrack Gossip thread is much more defined by #2 than by #1, especially considering little time is given to discussing anything that happens in people's private lives that they haven't mentioned publicly before. Seriously, if you air your laundry out for all to see, what do you expect us to do?
Oh, and I don't really like you. Just so you don't think I'm back-stabbing you. I'd much rather just punch you in the face.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: steven, nobody has mentioned this there. The last post was from yesterday wherein Noemon was making fun of me for smelling like "that stuff they use in institutions when they're trying to cover up the odor of vomit."
quote:Originally posted by steven: You guys, the backstabbing there is nasty.
Word up. I may smell like mothballs and Pine-Sol, but that was totally over the top.
---
Edited to add: Actually, Jesse's laughing at Noemon's slander is the last post.
I come over here like maybe once a week at best only to find that you Hatrack ****s are currently gossiping about me?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Genuine: I come over here like maybe once a week at best only to find that you Hatrack ****s are currently gossiping about me?
CT's pretty shameless, isn't she? The next thing you know she's going to be accusing you of playing a clarinet or something.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
steven, let me reiterate this: your pre-adolescent daughter reads these boards. Do you imagine she doesn't do the occasional search on your username, just to see what daddy's saying? Is your behavior here the sort of behavior you'd like to model for her?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Trying to calm down someone this angry is only going to pour oil on the flames. Leave him be.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Lisa, I'm sorry you have to go through these contortions to try to protect your daughter. That really sucks.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I just noticed this thread Lisa. I wish you didn't have to go through all these acrobatics in order to do the decent thing.
Out of curiosity, in Rabbinical court is a restraining order completely binding, or can it be reevaluated?
Would the creation of an anonymous email with which you forward your friends email to your ex be a viable option?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: Sara, my memory is incredibly long, as I think some jatraqueros have seen at times. I remember critical posts almost word for word years later. Yours are no exception.
I still don't play the piccolo, Sara. Do you still think I should start? 'Cos I remember a certain raw milk thread where I taught you a little lesson about e. coli and grain-fed versus grass-fed cows.
*mildly
As I recall, I expressed appreciation -- publicly, at that time -- for that particular useful and and accurate bit of information. If you'd like, consider this public appreciation expression number 2 for that particular useful and and accurate bit of information.
Edited to add: I'm still awfully glad to know it, and I hope to use it in the future. I think it would be very important in the right context, even crucial. Third thanks!
---
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Lisa, I'm sorry you have to go through these contortions to try to protect your daughter. That really sucks.
Seconded, in spades.
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
I would try using a new email acct to send the forwarded email on with. If that doesn't work you could ask your friend to contact ex for you but that is a sticky situation also.
The situation really sucks but you are stuck in a position where you are darned if you do darned if you don't. In the end you can do what is possible and turn the rest over to God. As my kids enter teen years I am realizing there is so little about their lives I can control anymore and I have to just pray like mad that God protects them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Out of curiosity, in Rabbinical court is a restraining order completely binding, or can it be reevaluated?
It can be, sure. But the odds are next to nil in this case.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Would the creation of an anonymous email with which you forward your friends email to your ex be a viable option?
The restraining order isn't against me contacting my ex. Just the kids. And when I tried forwarding my friend's e-mail, it bounced. So either they closed down their gmail accounts, or they've blocked me.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by JT in the fake Hatrack Gossip Thread in steven's brain: Steven can sure be a jackass.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by JT in the fake Hatrack Gossip Thread in steven's brain: Steven can sure be a jackass.
Come on. Stop baiting him.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I'm sorry it's such a difficult situation, Lisa. I second the advice to create a new anonymous email account and forward the information you have. If your ex is just blocking you it should get through. It'd have a chance of alerting her to the situation enough to investigate and perhaps intervene.
Also, if you know someone close to your ex, whether it's a religious, family, or work relationship...giving them the info anonymously might spur them to pass it along. (It sounds like if your identity is attached to the information it will be roundly ignored. )
Posted by bootjes (Member # 11624) on :
Hi Lisa,
any good news/progress?
Though I fear the only progress can be you coping with this in a way that doesn't eat your heart out.
wishing you well.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Actually, my partner's mother died on Monday, after battling lung cancer for about 15 months. So we're in Florida. They aren't having the funeral until Thursday, and we're going back to Chicago on Friday so that Havah can sit shiva there (and actually have a minyan in the shiva house, which her father won't permit).
So I've been a little distracted.
Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
Oh, Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear that. I will keep you all in my thoughts.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Thanks. It's been a really marvelous June.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
((Lisa))
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Ouch. Sorry to hear all this Lisa.
(((Lisa)))
Posted by bootjes (Member # 11624) on :
Sorry to hear that, my thoughts are with you
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
(((Lisa))), sounds like you could do with holiday.
For what it's worth, if there's anything I can do to help out, my email is in my profile.
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It's nothing personal, but somebody needs to rein you in, unless you're going to start reining yourself in. Please? Would you do that? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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