Originally posted by Carrie:
That was just crazy. I was shaking my head, thinking So much for eight..., and he goes and gets it.
Morgan Freeman is a liar. Michael Phelps IS part-dolphin.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:Sounds great, but the problem would be
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I am lobbying for a Magic: The Gathering to be considered an Olympic sport. Whose with me!!??
quote:Summer.
Originally posted by ricree101:
Edit:
Wrestling is also an olympic sport, but I cannot remember whether it is winter or summer.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:Fencing is a summer Olympic sport, too.
Anyone know if they have any olympic martial art sports?
quote:This is probably true.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Though probably not for the reason Carrie does.
)
quote:*nods head* I read that article as well, it was fascinating though definitely heart wrenching. But I suppose we will see if all this organized hard work pays off when they distribute medals.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
There's a big article in TIME magazine about Chinese training methods. They comb the countryside looking for kids, take them from their homes, force them to train for 8 hours a day with substandard education, and the ones who don't make it can't get into college because their education sucked, and many have problems with drugs and alcohol, and their suicide rates a fairly high too. The Chinese think that if they can win more Golds than the US, then they'd be #1, so they're focusing on events where a lot of medals are up for grabs.
I guess those kind of Olympic specific things are okay to discuss, though I'd like it sidelined in a month when the games actually start.
quote:Canadian invention
Originally posted by Elizabeth:
Here is one:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060607/ai_n16457061
I guess they also want to make sure it doesn't rain. We live in a weird world!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
quote:Man, you are as naive about this, as you used to be about Chicago politics. The IOC is one of the most corrupt governing bodies of sport in the world. Of course that doesn't have anything directly to do with the athletes. Except for the doping scandals.
Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
I'm trying to figure out why I'm such an Olympic nut even though I don't follow or appreciate the US baseball, basketball, football or hockey leagues. I don't care whether bulls, bears, or sox win. I'm sure the money in professional sports has something to do with it, but mostly, I think I'm under the opinion that the young men and women we send to compete represent the best of us. It's not necessarily humility. I like the swagger of the '92 US Basketball team and as much as I'm looking forward to swimming, I'm going to miss the shot of Gary Hall Jr. in a red, white, and blue silk boxing robe wringing his hands above his head like Apollo Creed in Rocky IV. HERE
I think I understand the Olympic as moral in a way that traditional professional sports aren't. Maybe it has to do with free-agency in professional sports and players not being tied to the culture of the places they represent. Or maybe it's the homogeneity of the US, that one team winning is much the same as another.
quote:From an sports perspective, I think Beijing was an awful choice for the games. To put it bluntly, Beijing's population is roughly 17.5 million people living in the developing world. Now, the progress that they've made is heartening (opening three subway lines before the games, probably doubling the length of subway system and dwarfing that of Toronto, how cool is that?) but still between the factories, legendary traffic jams, and the fact that many people still heat their homes burning cakes of coal directly, improving the air quality to world standards in the few years since the bid is a bit of a lost cause. Add in the summer sandstorms, being away from the ocean, the security hastles of hosting such an event in such a big city...ugh.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
...
Chinese officials are preparing to take 90% of Beijing's cars off the roads and are also preparing to close more or even all factories in the city. Air pollution has failed tests in recent days for a passing grade in air quality, and visibility is down to a couple hundred yards. Construction in the city has also been halted. Half the three million cars that regularly travel the city's streets have already been removed to no effect.
quote:When I see athletes cry on the medal podium, upon hearing the nation anthem and seeing the flag raised, I tend to think those are legitimate tears of awe, humility, and gratitude. Maybe they are just counting their endorsement deals when they get back home, or thinking how cool they are, but I like to think that they are identifying in a meaningful way, even if it's temporarily, with the ideals embodied by the flag and the music.
Man, you are as naive about this, as you used to be about Chicago politics. The IOC is one of the most corrupt governing bodies of sport in the world. Of course that doesn't have anything directly to do with the athletes. Except for the doping scandals.
quote:Yeah, I just assume that many Chinese athletes-- and athletes from a host of other countries-- are juiced. It doesn't matter. As long as the US gets and keeps its house in order, I don't mind losing. It's a big world, and we can't control it.
If the Chineese athletes get nailed for doping violations at the same rates the other countries do, I will be happy. If they don't, then once again the system is rigged.
), but... well... where would they put everything?
quote:Honestly, Chicago seems to me to be a dream city for the Olympics. They would need to build an Olympic stadium because I'm pretty sure that Soldier Field isn't big enough, but with respect to Arenas and fields, between DePaul, Millennium Park, Washington Park, UChicago, Soldier field, Wrigley, Cellular Field, whereever the BlackHawks play,(this doesn't even include Northwestern) getting from Event to Event would be a breeze on a bicycle or on the El. I was in LA in '84, and I know the hours it took to get travel from events. Atlanta had the space but didn't have the infrastructure set-up. Chicago already has a healthy, skeletal set-up by happy accident.
For some reason, Chicago seems like a really terrible place to have the Olympics.
quote:Hmph. Speak for yourself.
I sort of selfishly want one last hurrah in what will be the beginning of my middle agedness (I'll be 32 in 2016)
)
quote:Except horse racing isn't an Olympic sport.
Originally posted by Mucus:
Hong Kong is hosting the equestrian events (e.g. horse racing, which is very appropriate)
quote:*cough*Men's swimming, beach volleyball*cough*
Originally posted by Omega M.:
I have to say, the only Olympic sports I like to watch are those with cute female athletes. (Fortunately, those are exactly the sports that my girlfriend likes, too!) Anybody else feel this way, in relation to females or males?
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:I think the advantage goes to flexibility side, just barely. Flexibility improves so many sightlines, and improves balance in such myriad ways. Then again, one of my buddies competed through college, and never did get over her earnest fear of the vault.
I don't know about the less fearful vs. less flexible thing.
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quote:link
Etiquette experts have long advised hosts to avoid discussing politics and religion. But salaries, love lives and health are also off limits during the Olympics, as Beijing's courtesy campaign reaches its final stages.
For three years or more, officials have been training residents to be on their best behaviour, launching drives against spitting, smoking and swearing and encouraging locals to form orderly queues.
...
"It is normal for Chinese to ask people they just met such questions, but foreigners respond negatively," said Wang Zhaoqian, a spokeswoman for the Beijing municipal government.
"By educating locals, we hope that they will become more socially sensitive when communicating with visitors."
Another poster warns against using phrases such as "it's up there" when talking to anyone visually impaired, or "it's behind you" to disabled athletes. It recommends comments such as: "You are really great."
Deference to foreign sensitivities is such that volunteers have even been warned against using rap music as the ringtone on their mobile phones lest they offend visitors, China Daily reported.
Officials also warned today that they would not tolerate "obscene, sexual, superstitious or base" adverts over the Olympic period, saying they could affect the national image. Adverts for cigarettes and products that claim to improve sexual performance are off limits.
quote:link
Among the advice: how to decipher what Canadians mean when they put "eh?" at the end of a sentence.
"Eh," the guide helpfully explained, is pronounced "ay."
"Used mostly in rural areas," it states, the word roughly translates as "You know?" or "Isn't it?"
The guide, prepared by the U.S. Office of the Chief of Protocol, also notes that "Canadians, for the most part, place importance on education, skill, modesty and politeness."
In a section on "social customs and courtesies," designed to prevent members of the delegation from accidentally giving offence, the report advises that:
- "On being introduced the customary greetings are: firm handshake, customary "Hello," or "Bonjour" in Quebec.
- "During conversation remove sunglasses."
- "While indoors remove hats."
The document states that "most Canadian gestures are the same as those used in the United States" but adds there are some exceptions, including:
- "To call someone to you, use the entire hand rather than the index finger."
- "In Quebec, the thumbs down sign is considered offensive."
quote:Wow, just wow. Unfortunately it's too late for Floyd. And the people who were judging him, didn't really care how statistically valid the test actually was.
Nature believes that accepting 'legal limits' of specific metabolites without such rigorous verification goes against the foundational standards of modern science, and results in an arbitrary test for which the rate of false positives and false negatives can never be known. By leaving these rates unknown, and by not publishing and opening to broader scientific scrutiny the methods by which testing labs engage in study, it is Nature's view that the anti-doping authorities have fostered a sporting culture of suspicion, secrecy and fear.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
. Anyway. I'm looking forward to more olympics in the days to come
quote:That's exactly what I saw in the NBC broadcast. I watched the rebroadcast but it shouldn't have made a difference...
... The nbc channel I watched just had the guy speaking chinese, then every once in a while the announcers would give a summary of the last few sentences.
quote:Yeah....I bet Mackillian is ecstatic.
Originally posted by Carrie:
I watched some of the women's sabre fencing early early this morning (well, okay, it was late last night), and it was amazing. I was very happy to see that the US women swept the medals in the event, because there was some absolutely amazing fencing going on in their earlier bouts.
quote:I'm sure most TV stations managed to, oh I don't know, do some research. CBC was saying the country's name, flag bearer and his or her sport and a little story about him or her and relation to Canada, if any. Yeah, it was a little Canada-centric, but clearly they had done some thinking.
Joldo: The announcers did stretch for remarks, but I think its forgivable and harmless since they pretty much have to say "something" for each country. It did get sad, I remember for one country it was like "Oh, they filmed Gladiator there" and another was "Madonna adopted a child there."
quote:That was an AMAZING race. I can't believe the last few seconds when they were neck and neck, and I can't believe how much they all smashed the record by.
Originally posted by brojack17:
The mens 4 X 100M Freestyle just finishe and the USA team beat out the trash talking French. What a beautiful race.
quote:I figured you'd say as much. I wasn't SURPRISED by it, just happy to see the comradery.
Originally posted by Mucus:
BB: I'm not entirely surprised by that for a number of reasons. Although I *do* find it quite nice and heartening nonetheless.
I would judge the probability of non-cheering between the mainland and either the French or the Germans to be higher than Taiwan actually, barring any intentional provocations.
quote:Yea, that was super intense at the end. The reactions of the U.S team after the race were hilarious. They could have easily been actors in 300.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:That was an AMAZING race. I can't believe the last few seconds when they were neck and neck, and I can't believe how much they all smashed the record by.
Originally posted by brojack17:
The mens 4 X 100M Freestyle just finishe and the USA team beat out the trash talking French. What a beautiful race.
Stunning.
And this was supposed to be the biggest potential hurdle for Phelps in his quest to beat Spitz's record. I think you could see his relief in his intense reaction.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
(Wasn't Eammon Sullivan's leg amazing?)
quote:Actually the top five finishing teams all beat the world record. Pretty amazing race when the guy two spots out from the Bronze still beats the world record.
They said this suit would make records fall. I guess it's working. All three teams on the podium broke the old world record that was set by the US relay qualifying team.
quote:I can't wait to share that observation with my brother. He's a huge 300 fan.
The reactions of the U.S team after the race were hilarious. They could have easily been actors in 300.
quote:I didn't think about that. Looking back, that's so true.
Originally posted by Threads:
quote:Yea, that was super intense at the end. The reactions of the U.S team after the race were hilarious. They could have easily been actors in 300.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:That was an AMAZING race. I can't believe the last few seconds when they were neck and neck, and I can't believe how much they all smashed the record by.
Originally posted by brojack17:
The mens 4 X 100M Freestyle just finishe and the USA team beat out the trash talking French. What a beautiful race.
Stunning.
And this was supposed to be the biggest potential hurdle for Phelps in his quest to beat Spitz's record. I think you could see his relief in his intense reaction.
quote:A view from the Canadian gymnastics team in the conservative Canadian National Post:
Originally posted by Belle:
I don't really buy the fear issue - I think it's simply an issue of physicality. It's better if the girls are flat chested and small, and that's more likely to occur in pre-pubescent girls.
quote:http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/beijing-games/story.html?id=715967
The Canadian women's team has been in a practice group with the Chinese during the Olympic competition. "Those girls I see at the gym look eligible to me," Orchard said. "They are magnificent gymnasts. I could sit there all day and watch them.
"Their physique is even smaller than the typical North American child, so it is [exacerbated] even more. They are the best in the world, especially on bars and beam, but they are just tinier people."
In fact, the minimum age in Olympic gymnastics has been raised from 14 to 15, to 16 over the years, as those outside the sport grew concerned with the work regimen demanded of 12-and 13-year-olds in preparation for the Games.
"It's difficult to understand our sport. The physique is so different," Orchard said. "To my mind, 15 is the perfect age.
"In this sport, we do select very tiny packages. Even in Canada you have girls where you go, 'Oh my God. They look like they're only 10.' They're 15."
quote:It's not just about looking, however - there are reports from Chinese newspapers that state some of these girls are younger than they should be.
(To make it clear, I have no doubt that some of the girls may be underage, but for other reasons. The incredible ease of individual bribery and the pressure to commit collaborative corruption. But my main point is that it is not easy to tell just by looking especially if the accusation is from a biased competitor)
quote:Even if they are 14, thats like Grade 8 or 9 which is a far cry from age 7. Especially the 'diapers' remark smacks of bitterness.
Bela Karolyi, former coach to Nadia Comaneci and Mary Lou Retton, now coaches the pixies of the United States team. He spoke out last week about the Chinese.
"This is a joke," he said. "We are people who have had children of our own, so we know what a 16-year-old should look like. They should not look like they are seven and maybe still in diapers."
quote:I've always thought this was aimed at people, like me, who tend to be in and out just catching a bit here and there.
They latch onto a theme (last night: the fact that the US was putting up 4 routines instead of 5, so EVERY SCORE COUNTS!!!!!!!!) and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it...
quote:Indeed. Though I like the dancy moves from the women when they're well done.
On a random note, I love that the men don't even bother to pretend to dance during their floor routine. They just go out there and throw themselves through the air.
quote:They don't?! Wait, how could you possibly know this Mucus?
The lip sync thing is just plain obnoxious. I wonder if Zhang Yimou had anything to do with it (what, you don't think that Gong Li's breasts normally look like that, do you?).
code:--j_kwhile (olympics) {
phelps.MedalCount++;
}
code:Fail.while (olympics) {
phelps.MedalCount++;
}
code:Ordered lists ftw.bool OrderedList::Insert( /* in */ int key, /* in */ Info info )
{
Item temp;
if ( IsFull() || Search( key, info ) )
{
return false;
}
items[size].key = key;
items[size].info = info;
size++;
for ( int count = 0; count < (size-1); count++ )
{
temp = items[count];
counter = count;
while (( int counter > 0 ) && ( items[counter-1].key > temp.key ))
{
items[counter] = items[counter-1];
counter = counter - 1;
}
items[counter] = temp;
}
return true;
}
quote:I agree. I also think that Sacramone is a good gymnast with a lot of heart.
Given all that, we should be proud of the silver. And if the silver is the price we pay for the fact that our gymnasts are 1) the proper age and 2) actually know who their parents are, I'll take the silver proudly.
quote:I was under the impression that this was the Chinese government's official policy, but the way you're presenting it makes it seem otherwise. Is that correct?
People with use any edge they can to get ahead and the one-child policy can often exacerbate the problem.
quote:link
Each year a team of coaches selects 150 snotty-nosed four-year-olds from all the nursery schools in the city of Shanghai. Chen does not usually pick the child who jumps the highest or is the fastest runner in the school playground. He prefers to ask parents: "Is your son a little devil?" before they hurry to point out how well behaved their little child is, unwittingly ruining his chances of being picked. "What we are looking for are disobedient children because those are the ones with the extra energy to offer," says the coach. "A bit more sacrifice to contribute."
...
A first group of pre-selected children must put up with an hour and a half of gruelling testing in order to ascertain whether they are sufficiently resistant to pain despite their tender years. Their parents are, according to Chen, often unable to stand seeing their children suffer, and rush off home with them. "Those who stay behind have the chance of being champions," says the chief coach.
quote:http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/05/sports/gymnast.php?page=2
Cheng's road to Beijing began in central China, here in Hubei Province, a bleak industrial region where her father worked as a shipping clerk and her mother toiled in a tire factory.
She was born in 1988, an only child in a nation with a one-child policy. From the beginning, her parents say, she looked like a boy, so they treated her like one. Her father, a disciplinarian who had studied martial arts, pushed her from an early age, even pressing her to do calisthenics every morning before primary school classes began.
"I trained her like a military soldier," said her father, Cheng Ligao, who now owns a shop in Huangshi. "She followed me step by step and I shouted to her, 'One-two, one-two...."'
...
At one point, Cheng pleaded with her parents to let her quit and return home. "We asked her to hold on because we had invested so much and lived so bitterly," her mother said.
quote:It is NOT her fault. Even if she would have nailed her routines and got the highest score on our team, we still wouldn't have won. The chinese won by 2.375 points. She was 1.075 points lower than the highest beam girl and 1.075 points behind the highest floor girl (on our team). That adds up to 2.15; we still would have lost by .225 points. Pretty sad to see all the piling on...
Originally posted by Elmer's Glue:
Is that supposed to look like tiny gibberish?
That one girl must feel terrible. It was entirely her fault that our women's gymnastics team lost the gold.
quote:From what I understand about this, the rule is that one must turn 16 at any point during the Olympic year, so there are a few 15-year-olds competing. I'm pretty sure this rule came into effect within the past year and a half - but don't quote me on this. I'm just trying to synthesize all the reports I've heard/read about it.
Originally posted by katharina:
When the 16-and-over rule start? I seem to remember an American gymnast who was only 14.
quote:Mao also failed the exams and that was a big part of why he started down the path he did. In fact I remember reading several times that Hong Xiu Quan was a hero of Mao.
In fact, it was a failed student that turned to Christianity and started the Taiping Rebellion, thats how brutal and twisted the pressures could be in that kind of environment.
quote:Alot of text, but it doesn't appear to be any reference to poor grades as a motivator for "turning to the darkside". If anything from the books I've read he was considered the family scholar-to-be.
The eldest child of a relatively prosperous peasant family, Mao Zedong was born on December 26, 1893, in a village called Shaoshan in Xiangtan County (湘潭縣), Hunan province. His ancestors migrated from Jiangxi province during the Ming Dynasty, and had settled there as farmers. His father was Mao Jen-sheng, a peasant farmer. Wen Chi-mei, his mother, was a very devout Buddhist. Due to his family's relative wealth, his father was able to send him to school and later to Changsha for more advanced schooling.
During the 1911 Revolution, Mao enlisted as a soldier in a local regiment in Hunan which fought on the side of the revolutionaries. Once the Qing Dynasty had been effectively toppled, Mao left the army and returned to school.[7]
After graduating from the First Provincial Normal School of Hunan in 1918, Mao traveled with Professor Yang Changji, his high school teacher and future father-in-law, to Beijing during the May Fourth Movement in 1919.
Professor Yang held a faculty position at Peking University. Because of Yang's recommendation, Mao worked as an assistant librarian at the University with Li Dazhao as curator. Mao registered as a part-time student at Beijing University and attended many lectures and seminars by famous intellectuals, such as Chen Duxiu, Hu Shi, Qian Xuantong, etc. During his stay in Beijing, he read as much as possible, and through his readings, he was introduced to Communist theories. He married Yang Kaihui, Professor Yang's daughter who was his fellow student, despite an existing marriage arranged by his father at home. Mao never acknowledged this marriage. In October 1930, the Guomindang (GMD) captured Yang Kaihui with her son, Anying. The GMD imprisoned them both and Anying, then, was later sent to his relatives after the GMD killed his mother, Yang Kaihui. At this time , Mao was living with a co-worker, He Zizhen, a 17 year old girl from Yongxing, Jiangxi.[8] Mao turned down an opportunity to study in France because he firmly believed that China's problems could be studied and resolved only within China. Unlike his contemporaries, Mao concentrated on studying the peasant majority of China's population.
On July 23, 1921, Mao, age 27, attended the first session of the National Congress of the Communist Party of China in Shanghai. Two years later, he was elected as one of the five commissars of the Central Committee of the Party during the third Congress session.
quote:I'd also like to agree with this.
Given all that, we should be proud of the silver. And if the silver is the price we pay for the fact that our gymnasts are 1) the proper age and 2) actually know who their parents are, I'll take the silver proudly.
quote:That's already an event, but for rhythmic, rather than artistic gymnastics.
Originally posted by Elmer's Glue:
I'm guessing it is because there just aren't any other good events for them to compete in. What would you suggest they add, Ribbon Twirling?
quote:
For the gymnasts/parent's of I have a question.
Why are there only four events for women's gymnastics but six for men? I get that the differences between men and women lead to different events but why not have more events for the women?
quote:I'm guessing it's because all the events are designed to measure strength, flexibility, power, balance, and control of the body and the four events do that quite nicely already for the women. There's no real need to add anything else.
I'm guessing it is because there just aren't any other good events for them to compete in.
quote:Yeah, there is a certain amount of fear to overcome the first time you run headlong down a runway at top speed and hurl yourself at a stationary object!
Vault looks hard to learn though, I mean, I can't imagine how a girl or guy feels the first time they have to just go for it and flies through the air. It also seems like there is a high risk of injury from botched attempts.
quote:I always think of this when I see them vault. (Work Safe)
Originally posted by Belle:
quote:Yeah, there is a certain amount of fear to overcome the first time you run headlong down a runway at top speed and hurl yourself at a stationary object!
Vault looks hard to learn though, I mean, I can't imagine how a girl or guy feels the first time they have to just go for it and flies through the air. It also seems like there is a high risk of injury from botched attempts.
quote:Either my sarcasmometer is giving me a false positive, or my sincerigauge is simply not functioning properly.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I love all this controversy with all of these Chinese gymnasts who are all obviously 16 years old (why would you ever suspect otherwise) and absolutely no younger than that, definitely not 13.
quote:Again, it depends on what you mean by "the Chinese."
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
I honestly don't know how the Chinese (or, for that matter, much of the rest of the world) sees it.
quote:Yes, because they censored people's brains and not as commonly reported, their media
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The poppet civilians then largely fall in line behind that.
quote:Kerri Walsh could also give a couple of those sessions. Or, you know, anyone articulate.
Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
But most of all, I hope some big sponsor has the foresight to script an ad where an exasperated Shawn Johnson is in a classroom giving a "How to talk to the media" tutorial to our open-mouthed swimming lugs. God bless them.
quote:I thought Bela was endearing.
Did anyone see this? Bela Karyoli's reaction to the final moments of Nastia Liukin's floor routine. It's utterly hysterical. Watch Bob Costas too.
quote:Gah! I can't find any video of this race.
Originally posted by Carrie:
That was just crazy. I was shaking my head, thinking So much for eight..., and he goes and gets it.
Morgan Freeman is a liar. Michael Phelps IS part-dolphin.
quote:Agitprop, when successful, is a great way to do just this.
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Yes, because they censored people's brains and not as commonly reported, their media
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The poppet civilians then largely fall in line behind that.
quote:He got stripped of his medal, perhaps unsurprisingly.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Anyone catch this?
Swedish wrestler lays his bronze on the mat and storms away from medals ceremony in protest.
They're saying he threw it down, but he set it down, if that makes any difference, I saw the video. He was mad at a bit of officiating where he says he beat the eventual gold medal winner in a semifinals match.
Or maybe they are too overwhelmed to sing. I'd imagine in those circumstances, I would be belting my heart out-- but I'm from a loud, singing, talking family. My husband would probably be grinning ear to ear but NOT singing-- he comes from a family where emotions are kept closer inside and when overwhelmed they tend to go silent, not explode like we do in my family.
quote:Then let's go back to 'largely' since I have no intent on 'downgrading my claim.'
Originally posted by Mucus:
I may note that you've already changed from "largely" to "many." When you're talking about Chinese people with 1.3+ billion people, practically any behaviour can be measured in "many" without being representative (e.g. There are "many" Chinese Catholics.)
I mostly question "largely" since when you downgrade your claim to "many", hell, you could say many Americans let Fox News and associated pundits supersede critical thinking.
. She is a delight.![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
quote:Then I'm interested in your methodology in assessing the influence of Xinhua and how you go about determining what people believe and why they believe it.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Then let's go back to 'largely' since I have no intent on 'downgrading my claim.'
What I'm talking about is something that the CCP does and that tends to work for them. We've had ample evidence since the tibet riots/torch ceremony protests.
quote:I thought that was a joke. How can you not even land a vault and still get a medal.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Tough luck for both Alicia Sacramone and Sasha Artemev. Alicia missed a vaulting medal by a couple one hundreths of a point, and Bela Karoyli looked like he was going to cry. Frankly I think it was pretty suspect that two solid jumps with some small steps on the landing gets beaten by one good jump and one jump where the Chinese girl landed on her knees. That's strange. Clearly others agree.
So close for Sasha! He was rocking that routine until he fell off, and finished strong. I think his was the most entertaining of the routines, with that 180 spin move and his legs flying all about. It looked awesome, I just wish he could have hung on.
quote:Here's the way I understand it, compliments of several threads on other forums which were pumped full of primary sources and personal commentary from people who have been living in china for a while:
Then I'm interested in your methodology in assessing the influence of Xinhua and how you go about determining what people believe and why they believe it.
quote:China has a 92% literacy rating. Also this statement is not particularly fair, China's middle class for example is roughly over 300,000,000 which is equal to every man, woman and child in the USA.
evident in China's uneducated and underprivileged demographics
quote:Alright, I thought the scoring thus far in the Olympics has been spotty at times, and downright crappy at other times, but what happened on bars is just beyond all realms of stupid and unfair. Since Liukin and He had the exact same score, the rules say that a tiebreaker has to be used to see who gets the medal. The first tiebreaker is the start value, which they shared, the second tiebreaker is the number of deductions, which they also shared.
Originally posted by amira tharani:
Belle (or anyone else), can you explain to me the judging in the bars final? I thought Liukin's routine was better than He Kexins, but scored the same, and then I thought Yang Yilin's was better still, but scored less... what am I missing? Liukin and He in particular had the same difficulty, so it was all on execution, and I really did think that Liukin's was the cleaner (and more graceful). I'm confused.
It also bites that Beth Tweddle, who is the nearest thing we've had in Britain to a good female gymnast, just missed out on the medals. I thought she'd done enough but not nailing the dismount cost her. She would have got an awesome score but for that, I think.
quote:The first statement is true, but the second statement, where did you get that number? That sounds incredibly high.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
China has a 92% literacy rating. Also this statement is not particularly fair, China's middle class for example is roughly over 300,000,000 which is equal to every man, woman and child in the USA.
quote:Again, I'm asking for specifics. How could you possibly determine this?
Originally posted by Samprimary:
It is true of most chinese that they genuinely believe what they are shown.
quote:I hear this claim a lot without any substantiation or proof. After all, it is not as though one can simply go up to Chinese people, ask, and expect to get good results.
Most chinese young people haven't even heard of the tienanmen square massacre.
quote:http://peternh.blogspot.com/2007/08/its-going-to-be-painful-12-months-wait.html
My favourite recent example of this was in the television documentary The Tank Man, shown widely in English-speaking markets in which the purpose of the documentary maker was to show that the events of Tian'an Men Square in June 1989 had been forgotten, and in particular that the authorities had been successful in suppressing all knowledge of 'the tank man'--the lone individual with his shopping bags who stood in front of a line of tanks to stop them, thus creating one of the most familiar news images of the 20th century.
In this film four hapless Bei Da (Peking University) students are handed a copy of the image and asked what it says to them. You can see this painful and embarrassing sequence here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/view/
It's part six, whose text summary says, 'Beida University students don't recognize the photo of the tank man...'
Unfortunately for this thesis, one of the students whispers, ''89', to which another replies, 'Haoxiang shi!' ('It seems like it') while the commentary over the top nevertheless disingenuously states that she's baffled.
Out loud the students demur: 'I really don't know; I'm just guessing,' and ask whether the photo is a piece of artwork especially put together for the interviewer's 'experiment'.
It's not just that the English commentary lies about the content of the conversation, but that the whole situation is journalistically bankrupt. Of course the four students were carefully picked by the film-maker's minders, although we're led to suppose that the crew just wandered onto the campus (of Bei Da!) and sat down a few random students in front of the camera for a chat. Nothing is said about the fact that the minder is sitting somewhere behind the camera (a point later admitted by the film-maker in an interview for a different programme, apparently without the slightest embarrassment), and what Bei Da student is going to risk piping up enthusiastically with, 'Yes, yes, I know!' in front of a vast potential foreign television audience and at the cost of failing to graduate or being kicked out altogether. Their expressed bewilderment is almost pantomimic, except that it clearly seems to say, 'How could you put us on the spot like this?'
...
The commentary says that the film of the 'tank man' was only shown once on China Television, and that no one under 20 in China is likely to have seen it. Anyone who knows students at Beijing universities will know what nonsense that last part is. Or it's wild coincidence that even I know several who've seen the clip more than once on the foreign English-language channels they are allowed in their dorm rooms. A quick search of Youtube using the terms 'tank' and 'Beijing' produces four options to watch the clip on the first page of results alone. Despite blockage of Youtube in China, there is no way that this clip hasn't been downloaded many times and passed around, and it's naive in the extreme to think otherwise.
...
The actual politics here and the detailed truth of what happened in the past are beside the point. These remarks are not about politics but about the problem of getting a reliable picture of China even for trivial tourism purposes. If we can't trust the Chinese media to do anything but lie it's not clear that we can take much of our own media seriously either, not because there's a propaganda agenda in the same way (although sometimes, depending on the owner or the desire for advertising income there clearly is one of some sort or other) but simply because many of our journalists are incompetent, and others are looking to tailor information to make it fit their idea of what appeals.
quote:link
...
On the question of the Chinese gymnast He Kexin’s age, one fact is certain, that is, there is an inconsistency between the local athletic bureau and the central athletic bureau. So, is it that:
1. The local athletic bureau is correct, and the central athletic bureau changed her age to older?
OR
2. The local athletic bureau falsified, and changed her age to younger?
In the eyes of foreign dudes (waiguo lao), so long as the gathered information, when put on a timeline, gives her age as 13 years old (presently 14 years old) first, then possibility 2 has the highest possibility. It shows that in its quest for gold, China will stoop to cheating. If this storyline is pushed forward some more, it can represent that China’s nationalism is grafted in such and such a way onto its totalitarian system, which will be terrifying like so, similar to 1936, etc….
An excellent storyline. But, from my experience in this country, it’s not like this. A greater possibility is, the local athletic bureau changed her age to younger, so she could participate in the Inter-City Competition. In truth, nearly all age-related alterations have happened in competitions internal to China. The goal is for the local sports officials, various levels of athletic schools, and parents to conspire and “rationally” exploit regulations to win more resources, honor, and — the biggest motivator of all — political achievements for the local sports officials and connected entities in the bureaucratic resource allocation game of the sports system.
In the Chinese bureacracy, this game has quietly gone on for years… the widespread extent of which, if one were to inquire, would be startling. It’s just that this time, this game has been exposed on the net and in the media, and has been found out… As can be seen below, He Kexin was a traded athlete in the Inter-City Competition, so the interests involved here are huge. If some mischief transpired, I wouldn’t be surprised…
...
Then the author provides two appendices. The first appendix is a newspaper article on the Inter-City Competition, with a paragraph that states an age-limit band of 13 to 15 years for gymnastics. The article also notes that the Inter-City Competition is mostly a proving ground for the 2012 Olympics.
The second appendix is a partial list of traded athletes between various local athletic bureaus. He Kexin is listed as being on loan for 2 years by the Beijing Bureau to the Wuhan Bureau. Birthday is listed as 1994 in this list, and seems to be essentially the same database that “the foreigners” found online. He Kexin would be useless to the Wuhan Bureau for the 2007 Inter-City Competition, if her real birthday was in 1992, making her over 15.
In fact, in the comments to a prior post, I’ve raised the point that Chinese parents change birthdays of children quite often for a variety of reasons or advantages, to older or younger, hence the possibility that things could go either way with He Kexin. He really could be 16, yet still nobody would want to come out and explain the age changing in local competitions — that’s just another can of worms. Anyway, this certainly isn’t proof of anything nor is it great news. The point is simply that, before jumping to conclusions on something having to with China, it is worth considering the other possilities, and at the least, consider that other possibilities do exist.
Finally, I hope this kind of fudging the formality culture is lost in China. It really is bad for the development of the rule of law.
quote:link
... I find Chinese behavior in the Olympic stands containing complexities beyond this. For sure, some Chinese would like to beat the Americans in every way possible, and that means rooting for third nations that play against the U.S. teams.
At other times, I’ve seen them root for the underdog. That occurred in a Russia-Georgia beach volleyball match. The crowd was going for the little guy against someone they perceived as a bully.
Then there are the times Chinese root for those who play well. That happened at an Argentina-Brazil soccer game earlier this week. The crowd was for Argentina, which won 3-0.
Then an interesting thing happened: The crowd began chanting, “Xie Yalong, xia ke!" – which means, “Xie Yalong, take a hike!” Xier Yalong is president of the Chinese Football Association and a national whipping boy because Chinese love soccer but can’t seem to put together a decent team.
So there you have it: Sometimes Chinese fans root for the underdog. Sometimes they root for the dominant team. And sometimes they even chant against their own side if it doesn’t live up to expectations. There could be a political message in that.
quote:I notice she still has the great satan (nike) on her chest...
Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
Ruqaya al Ghasara from Bahrain won her 200m heat wearing specially designed hijab: Awesome.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1046912/Muslim-sprinter-wins-Olympic-sprint-dressed-head-toe-hijab.html
quote:That's a HUGE accomplishment. I don't believe it.
Originally posted by brojack17:
Japan just beat the US in Softball. That's a big accomplishment. Congrats to Japan.
quote:That's awesomeness.
Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
Ruqaya al Ghasara from Bahrain won her 200m heat wearing specially designed hijab: Awesome.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1046912/Muslim-sprinter-wins-Olympic-sprint-dressed-head-toe-hijab.html
Didn't a Muslim woman compete in a swim event a while back in a head-to-toe swimsuit, too? I really loved what she said:quote:I'd love to see a Mormon woman on the beach volleyball team get accomodation wearing a full top instead of a bikini someday or something. I think it's fantastic that her country and designers from Australia worked together to accomodate her religious beliefs while allowing her to compete.
'I hope that my wearing the hijood sports top will inspire other women to see that modesty or religious beliefs don’t have to be a barrier to participating in competitive sports.'
quote:Well accusing a country especially the tender Chinese of cheating is a serious accusation.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm not complaining about you, Im just complaining about the media.
I don't know, getting "computer experts" and "forensics specialists" is I think going to extremes.
quote:I think this is where Blayne's argument falls apart the most. It's one thing to say that you disagree with the rule and that no one should have to follow it, but it's an entirely different thing to say that you disagree with the rule and won't follow it, even though everyone else is.
If some people are following the rules and some are not that's not a level playing field.
quote:Agreed, if only the endless revolving door stream of 'Free Tibet' activists setting up in Beijing, tipping off Western journalists, getting filmed, and then being detained within a few minutes and deported got that message too.
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
...
It's like just because someone don't agree with anti-doping rules doesn't mean they don't need to be followed.
quote:They'll be facing our (my) beloved Brazilian team, the defending champions. So it should be a fantastic game. Actually, we'll have another Brazil X USA in women's Volleyball too. It's becoming something of a classic game
So, uh...
How 'bout those indoor men's volleyball players, taking Russia right down to the wire? Another solid match to get the US in another gold-medal volleyball match.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:Chess does not have the potential to do as much damage to children as gymnastics does. This is a rule to protect the girls from what could be called abuse.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Yes but I don't think it matters, c'mon if they're good enough to compete they should be able to compete.
You don't see people forcing Sergey Karjakin to not participate in Chess Tournaments.
quote:Yeah, as much as I am not pleased with China's politics, it's really stupid to do that. They don't even bother to learn Mandarin first so people might know what they're doing.
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Agreed, if only the endless revolving door stream of 'Free Tibet' activists setting up in Beijing, tipping off Western journalists, getting filmed, and then being detained within a few minutes and deported got that message too.
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
...
It's like just because someone don't agree with anti-doping rules doesn't mean they don't need to be followed.
quote:To be fair, it's not like that's just something you can check off the list. Do we have the banners? Yep. Flyers? Yep. Did someone remember to learn Mandarin? Yeah - Charlie picked it up last Tuesday.
They don't even bother to learn Mandarin first so people might know what they're doing.
quote:Mucus, do you mean this literally, or are you being pithy?
Agreed, if only the endless revolving door stream of 'Free Tibet' activists setting up in Beijing, tipping off Western journalists, getting filmed, and then being detained within a few minutes and deported got that message too.
quote:They're not intending to communicate with the people in China.
Yeah, as much as I am not pleased with China's politics, it's really stupid to do that. They don't even bother to learn Mandarin first so people might know what they're doing.
quote:His behavior was unsportsmanlike, but wow, what hyperbole. Yang takes his martial arts very seriously.
"This is an insult to the Olympic vision, an insult to the spirit of taekwondo and, in my opinion, an insult to mankind," Yang said.
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
]
quote:I don't see why it can't be both. I think it's difficult to do, and has an entertainment value to it, but I don't think it should be an Olympic sport. If you read the article that I read, they were also talking about rhythmic gymnastics, which I also don't think should be an Olympic sport, along with a half dozen other sports that shouldn't count. And for that matter, I think half the categories, races, rounds etc within each sport should be eliminated as well. I don't think there needs to be 300 different kinds of swimming and track races. I don't think table tennis or badmitton should be in there at all either.
Anyone else think it is an awesome sport or do most people agree that it isn't Olympic worthy?
quote:Well, duh.
Originally posted by Annie:
quote:To be fair, it's not like that's just something you can check off the list. Do we have the banners? Yep. Flyers? Yep. Did someone remember to learn Mandarin? Yeah - Charlie picked it up last Tuesday.
They don't even bother to learn Mandarin first so people might know what they're doing.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
So insidious.]
quote:I take it you've never been to a Korean New Year party.
You'd think cheap, really loud annoying pieces of plastic filled with hot air would be more easily associated with Americans, but I guess not.
quote:Erm, maybe both?
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Mucus, do you mean this literally, or are you being pithy?
Congratulations - both to her and to a proud mother!
quote:I tell you one thing also, about announcing. I saw the synchronized swimming events, and they discussed how the Chinese hired a Russian coach, and that coach was shocked when a swimmer asked for "a weekend off" to go home and see her family whom she had not seen in 10 years.
I also got annoyed at the commentators. I am one of the people who actually needs commentary to follow a baseball game, and I didn't like missing half the action while they talked about yesterday's US game and how well the team did considering and blah blah blah. You're paid to talk about the game, talk about it already!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:I recall the total medal count as being the most important thing in the past, not the gold. Do you some some actual basis for making your claim?
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
No, its nearly always been which country has the most gold.
quote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121856271893833843.html
The reason is due to a divide between the U.S. and the rest of the world. The U.S. -- actually its media, including The Wall Street Journal -- ranks countries by all the medals a team wins.
...
The rest of the world ranks countries by golds. Silver and bronze are used only as tie-breakers. ...
The split has its roots in the early days of the Olympics and reflects the movement's evolution, from an organization that sought to eliminate nations' victories over one another to one that celebrates them. And while it's primarily a quirky point for most people, the difference in the medal tables arguably has its serious side too. Some see in the gold-first ranking -- which is unofficially endorsed by the International Olympic Committee -- one reason why countries have become increasingly ruthless in cutting funding for sports where they don't have a clear shot at a gold.
...
Raising the issue with the IOC does no good, Mr. Shvets says, because "they say it's not official. Everybody says it's not official." Yet despite that, the gold counts are sometimes prominently displayed. In Sydney in 2000, Mr. Shvets says, there was a tall tower in the Olympic area that showed the top medal-winning countries -- golds only. "They updated it every day," he says.
Beyond the frustration, a more serious issue is that the tables are taken seriously by sports officials around the world. Over the past few years, an array of countries, from Australia and Japan to France and Germany, have begun adopting policies aimed at gold. They have done so by cutting funding for sports that aren't likely to win gold. The German motto for this year's Games is "maintain 6th in Beijing and move to 5th in London" -- based on the gold-first tally. Funding is being tailored accordingly, according to German sports officials.
quote:Blayne, perhaps you could cite some evidence that this is a new way of ranking within the United States?
As for the Associated Press in New York, it "has always aggregated it by total medals for as long as we can remember," said its sports-statistics editor Paul Montella. For non-U.S. customers, however, AP provides the gold-first table.
quote:I mentioned it a few pages back, but age doesn't matter to the Chinese. The nearest correlation I can think of is how Americans don't care about gender. Chinese don't see the enforcement of age limits as a matter for the rule of law. Or, I think I may have compared it to highway speed limits before. In America, I know plenty of people who drive 7-9 miles over the limit who also say things like "it's too bad we don't enforce our laws more strictly."
Finally, I hope this kind of fudging the formality culture is lost in China. It really is bad for the development of the rule of law.
quote:Blayne,
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
American news media appears to be claiming the US has won due to having more "total" medals but the Official Olympics website and for that matter historical precedent of every preceding Olympics games China has won due to having the most Gold medals.
The American propoganda machine at work.
Now if they had a score system of say a Gold worth 4, silver 2 and bronze 1 and totaled it up to USA having more points then fine, math doesn't lie but there doesn't appear to be the case.
quote:Remember, guys. This is a question of history, and we all know who's right in those!
No, its nearly always been which country has the most gold.
quote:I am.
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:Remember, guys. This is a question of history, and we all know who's right in those!
No, its nearly always been which country has the most gold.
quote:Technically, if you look at say the CBC medal table http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/ which is sorted by gold medals, the smaller countries that only won silver or bronze medals still show up in the rankings. After all, silver and bronze medals have to be used to break ties when two countries tie with the same number of golds, the smaller nations are just all "tied" with 0 golds.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
... promote smaller countries whose athletes might not win gold, but still deserved to be honored for their efforts.
Which is what its about - pushing yourself to get better and go further and accepting disappointment and getting back on the beam when you fall.
quote:I do have to say, that's an awesomely scary photo.
Originally posted by Zhil:
Ref gets a faceful of feet; feet's owner faces bannination
quote:Hey now, I think this could be pretty cool!
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
[QUOTE]Olympic marching band?
quote:http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gD9DBqgiaDvqBYq-Q_HEOavNWFOg
The NBA and private developers have been signed up to run stadiums and arenas. The Water Cube swimming centre, due to become a public pool, raised money by licensing its name for a bottled water brand. The Bird's Nest is taking bids from companies for naming rights.
...
The Bird's Nest will be the highest-profile test case for the city's ability to make them financially viable.
It has the advantage that it is the first big, modern stadium in a city where the main venue for rock concerts and sports has been the drab Workers Stadium, a 58,000-seat hulk built in 1959. But the new facility's huge size and potentially high user fees could put it beyond the reach of many events.
...
The Water Cube raised money by licensing its name for use on swimsuits and on bottled water made from Canadian icebergs.
Beijing began charting the venues' future almost as soon as it was awarded the games in 2001.
Athlete housing was designed from the start as luxury apartments, with swimming pools, tennis courts, coffee shops and shopping. Chinese media say units sold out ahead of the games for prices of $2,900-$4,400 per square metre, high even for Beijing's booming real estate market.
quote:http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080829/australia_orchestra_080829/20080829?hub=World
Eight years after Sydney hosted the 2000 Summer Olympics, officials with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra acknowledged their stirring performance at the opening ceremony was entirely prerecorded. And perhaps even more cringe-inducing for Sydney residents: some of the music was recorded by the symphony of rival city Melbourne.
quote:http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200808c.brief.htm#030
* (809 persons age 18 or over interviewed by telephone August 24-28, 2008 at response rate of 48.2%)
Q6. The Beijing Olympics are now over. Overall, do you think that the Beijing Olympics was successful?
1.6%: Very unsuccessful
2.1%: Somewhat unsuccessful
25.8%: Somewhat successful
68.7%: Very successful
1.7%: Don't know/hard to say
Q7. Which of the following is the most important standard by which you judge the success of the Beijing Olympics
4.9%: The number of gold medals won by China
57.1%: Beijing was able to complete the Olympics safely and smoothly
2.0%: The number of foreign VIP's attending the Beijing Olympics
31.1%: The media were able to report the Olympics and the situation in China
2.7%: Other
3.5%: Don't know/hard to say
Q8. Are you proud of China hosting the Olympics?
41.2%: Very proud
43.4%: Somewhat proud
12.9%: Not proud
1.6%: Not proud at all
1.0%: Don't know/hard to say
Q9. Do you feel that the Beijing Olympics has changed the image of China?
1.2%: Became worse
7.9%: No change
89.5%: Became better
1.4%: Don't know/hard to say
quote:In your dreams.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:I am.
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:Remember, guys. This is a question of history, and we all know who's right in those!
No, its nearly always been which country has the most gold.