Since I attend a Unitarian church not unlike the one in the article, I find this particularly disturbing.
As I've always contended that video games are not the cause of youth violence, it would be hypocritical of me to suggest that the Hannitys and Coulters of the world are somehow responsible for this act. Sick people will latch onto all kinds of things to justify terrible acts, whether it's the Bible, Catcher in the Rye, Taxi Driver, or Grand Theft Auto.
And the people who are affected by the tragedy will try to make sense of it. Some of them will run shallow in their attempts, will to find scapegoats.
I'm just... Sad. Any time someone decides to take out the hurt in their lives on some poor random soul who happened to fit inside the wrong bubble... I suppose I should be grateful that it happens as rarely as it does, all things being as they are. It's that humanity manages to stumble along more or less peacefully in so much of the world that makes the instances where we do not all the more horrific.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't really blame the Hannity's or Coulter's either, and for the same reason you listed.
But I do think this is a perfect opportunity for those people who make their living by building partisan walls and inciting anger to come out and give statements that could tear down some of those walls. I don't expect that to happen, and I also don't expect Coulter to come out and say "good we bagged a couple liberals." Really they don't HAVE to say anything. I just think this is a great opportunity for them to do something good for a change.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Man. What would he think of that hippie Jesus?
I agree, it's sad. Just sad.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:During a search of Adkisson's home, investigators confiscated a handgun, a sawed-off shotgun barrel and books by conservative commentators, authorities said.
I can understand why they would confiscate the weapons. Why would they confiscate the books?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Probably because his stated reason for the shooting was that he hated liberals, and they found manuals telling people why and how to hate liberals in his home. They probably thought it might be helpful in ascertaining his motive.
Other than the crazy, I mean.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by TL: I can understand why they would confiscate the weapons. Why would they confiscate the books?
And for all we know, there could be a really obscure book that has a paragraph or two stating liberals and gays should be killed. I doubt any of the main-stream conservative commentators would think that, let alone write it, but you never know. Anyone can publish these days.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
--- Warning, insensitive speculation ---
The article mentions that he was briefly enlisted in the military, had at least 76 shells, but only managed to get off three shots (and hit 9 people) before being overpowered by people in the church.
Kudos to those involved for having the presence of mind to react before more were hurt. I can't say I honestly know how I would react to such a thing.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I think this was the line that bothered me the most in the whole article:
quote:Police said Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tennessee, walked into the church's sanctuary during a children's musical performance and fired a shotgun
Those poor terrified children (and parents).
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: I think this was the line that bothered me the most in the whole article:
quote:Police said Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tennessee, walked into the church's sanctuary during a children's musical performance and fired a shotgun
Those poor terrified children (and parents).
One of the more surreal comments I've read is that one of the people who tackled the shooter was Daddy Warbucks.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by TL: I can understand why they would confiscate the weapons. Why would they confiscate the books?
And for all we know, there could be a really obscure book that has a paragraph or two stating liberals and gays should be killed. I doubt any of the main-stream conservative commentators would think that, let alone write it, but you never know. Anyone can publish these days.
We had a thread hear just a while back quoting a main-stream conservative commentator saying exactly that.
quote:Excuse me folks, I'm going to say this. We ought to find the people who are doing this, take them out and shoot them. Really. You take them out, they are traitors to this country, and shoot them. You have a problem with that? Deal with it. You shoot them. You call them traitors, that's what they are, and you shoot them dead. I'll pay for the bullets
While he was speaking about a particular group of liberals, I can easily imagine him and others of his ilk saying this about any group of liberals that is the target of their rant of the day.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Coulter actually could very well say "good job" she's said alot worse and prides herself on saying inflammatory statements.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Sick *#%@, too *@&@ing scared to take his own misrable life so he takes his self-loathing out on others. Disgraceful.
Scary thing is I know someone who has similar feelings, but the other way around, against conservatives. Not that he'd ever do anything like this of course, but the blind scapegoating just to avoid his own personal problems and failures is similar.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:While he was speaking about a particular group of liberals
Are the people he was speaking of liberals?
Note: I don't think the answer to this question has any bearing whatsoever on the reprehensibility of Reagan's statements or is relevant to the point that it seems likely Reagan or his ilk has made such remarks directed at actual liberals. This is pure curiosity.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
No they are not liberals. They are Ultra Conservatives--kind of like a Michael Savage...but anti-war.
The anti-war aspect is considered a liberal notion, but I would call them conservative. That is why, unfortunately, they are such fans of Ron Paul.
In their world the government is run by satanists globalists and used 9/11 as a method to consolidate power because they want to wipe out the world population. Truthers are very anti-war because they see war as one of the tools the satanic government intentionally uses to kill off useless eaters.
Ron Paul is very anti-big-government because he thinks it is less effective and immoral. Ron Paul is very anti war. The problem he had is the 9/11 truthers are also anti war and anti big government, but for VERY different reasons and hijacked his campaign. They are so loud and adored him so much it was easy for the media to confuse the two.
Where Ron Paul sees incompetence, useless bureaucracy, and unnecessary taxes, they see evil agenda, intentional oppression for satanic reasons, and taxes as a purposeful weapon used to squash free people.
They creep me out. I met them at the meet up groups and had to stop going.
The person that *inspired* Michael Reagan to say those horrible things comes from that ilk--ultra gold buying conservative but with what is considered to be a very liberal anti war streak.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Thanks for the info, lem.
Still, having said that about one group, Rabbit's point that it's easy to "imagine him and others of his ilk saying this about any group of liberals that is the target of their rant of the day" is well taken.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Coulter actually could very well say "good job" she's said alot worse and prides herself on saying inflammatory statements.
Coulter is such a sensationalist attention whore.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:Rabbit's point that it's easy to "imagine him and others of his ilk saying this about any group of liberals that is the target of their rant of the day" is well taken.
Apparently his fantasies include putting "grenades up their butts (babies) and light them." No...not a joke.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Here is a collection of quotes from conservative commentators saying or implying that liberals should be killed. Note, I was just linked to this page, I know nothing about the site in general.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
ElJay, I find that page truly sobering. I am appalled that so many people find this kind of hate mongering entertaining.
Unlike Sterling, I see a very important distinction between what these right wing commentators are doing and violent media. These people are deliberately fanning the fire. They are trying to dehumanize their opposition. Trying to make hatred of certain people accepted and acceptable. They prey on people who are looking for a scapegoat for all the problems they see in the world. They do bare some responsibility when their fans take their words literally and go on shooting sprees.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Rabbit,
I tend to agree with you...but in this specific instance? I do think there are people out there that take Coulter and her ilk seriously and really do hate liberals. But I think when one of them goes out by himself and plans to kill as many as he can before committing suicide by cop, there just has to be some other screws loose in his head than the ones she loosened for him.
Do I think there is a culture of hatred being cultivated by people like Coulter? Yes, I do, and for that I think they are certainly answerable. But I think it's difficult to lay this specific incident at their feet for blame. I think it would be extremely wise for them to take this opportunity to try their hands at healing and unity rather than division and hate mongering, but that remains to be seen.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
There is a world of difference between saying "Right Now, I could kill George Bush" and saying
""I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for.""
or
"Let's start with the following New York Times reporters and editors: Arthur "Pinch" Sulzberger Jr. , Bill Keller, Eric Lichtblau, and James Risen. Do you have an idea where they live?
Go hunt them down and do America a favor. Get their photo, street address, where their kids go to school, anything you can dig up, and send it to the link above. This is your chance to be famous -- grab for the golden ring."
Likewise, I see an enormous difference in reveling in the idea that Global Warming is likely to flood the staunchly conservative south (a hypothetical future event) and reveling in the fact that anti-war activists had been kidnapped by terrorists.
As for Al Franken's book promotion, can you quote the relevant parts. I looked at the link you gave and couldn't find anything about beating people up.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
DK: I don't see an example of a mainstream (for now, how about we define that as "has several repeat appearances on the TV networks"?) liberal commentator saying he or she wants to kill all or a large group of conservatives.
I mean, right now you've got a frustrated person who vented her anger in an inappropriate way and then apologized, a hammy video making a joke about how liberals and conservatives can't tolerate each other, a whimsical piece about a future with global warming, and an article criticizing liberal protestors for organizing a protest, and assuming those protests will be grossly violent. What makes that last one really hilarious is, the RNC protests in 2004 were not violent to speak of.
Your examples show the opposite of what you want to show. There are clearly far more vituperative conservative commentators who get the limelight than anything you've shown as a counterexample. Do you have some real counterexamples?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
"The Left's Battle for New York" is a doosie of an article. They even admit to replacing the word actually used at the website in question with more inflammatory language.
Give me some direct quotes from Liberal pundits like those on ElJay's link. Direct quotes from liberals who have access to the mass media every day and use it to drum up hatred against conservatives.
There are without a doubt liberals who hate conservatives. There are unquestionably liberals who say bad stuff about conservatives. But if you are claiming that they are "just as bad" as the stuff ElJay linked to, then you have to show us stuff that is "just as bad". You haven't.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I could find worse stuff from that from liberals in, like, ten minutes.
But at the same time I don't think the liberals could top the hateful crap from people who call themselves conservatives.
just, you know, fyi.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: could find worse stuff from that from liberals in, like, ten minutes.
But at the same time I don't think the liberals could top the hateful crap from people who call themselves conservatives.
I'm sure there are liberals who say things as hateful as the stuff in ElJay's link. With effort, I'm sure you could find them on the internet as well. But there is a major difference. The liberal stuff isn't mainstream. Michael Reagan, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and half the other people quoted in ElJay's link have nationally syndicated shows with millions of listeners. You can find their books in the front of every Borders, Barnes and Nobles and even in airports.
I read liberal blogs and websites regularly. I've watched Michael Moore films and occasionally listen to Al Franken. And while I admit that many liberals think its funny to make demeaning jokes about conservatives and that I have made morbid jokes about Cheney and Bush, I have never heard or read liberal screed as filled with hatred as the stuff that comes daily from the mouths of mainstream popular conservatives like Coulter, Reagan and Limbaugh.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:But there is a major difference. The liberal stuff isn't mainstream. Michael Reagan, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and half the other people quoted in ElJay's link have nationally syndicated shows with millions of listeners.
Yeah, ..... yeah. Yeah, umm, I can't see how this is unfair. It's true, I think. It's a good observation.
if I analyze the statements of the people who have the bestselling/most watched left stuff versus the people who have the bestselling/most watched right stuff, the vast vast majority of the absolutely detestable stuff is going to be on the right-hand column.
Of course a lot of this is going to be influenced heavily by some predictable names. Like Ann "I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo." Coulter.
Honestly, how's Olbermann going to compete with that.
Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
By ending every other sentence with SIR?
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
quote: As for Al Franken's book promotion, can you quote the relevant parts. I looked at the link you gave and couldn't find anything about beating people up.
scroll down and look at the promo video he does for it, it's on the site
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