quote: It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface.
[ August 05, 2008, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: SoaPiNuReYe ]
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
I'm actually pretty interested in the announcement. They say that they haven't actually discovered life but it would be really cool if they detected amino acids or something along those lines (though I'm not even sure if Phoenix can detect that type of stuff).
EDIT: I should have read the second article before opening my trap.
quote:Asked to speculate yesterday on what it may have now found, Dr Clarke said the instrument was designed, among other things, to spot dissolved ammonium and nitrate salts.
quote:A later message adds: "Reports claiming there was a White House briefing are also untrue and incorrect."
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
It looks like they found perchlorate. This is an oxidizing chemical used as rocket fuel, and it doesn't bode well for life as we know it on Mars's surface.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
This is where everything gets confusing because I could have sworn reading somewhere else that scientists had once thought that the soil was toxic but that they don't think that's the case anymore.
quote: The MECA instrument had already made the landmark discovery that Mars "soil" was much like the soil more familiar on Earth. This finding prompted scientists to indicate that the minerals and pH levels in the regolith could support some terrestrial plants, indicating this would be useful for future Mars settlers.
Posted by Starsnuffer (Member # 8116) on :
My brother's blog(primarily about mars) has some information/links to more information for those curious about the phoenix mission. /End shameless, but pertinent, plug.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I would recommend changing the title of this thread....I almost didn't click on it because I didn't know what it would be about. Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
My biggest dream as a teenager was to be a Matian colonist.... maybe one day one of my great-great-granchildren might get to!
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I don't think that perchlorate is necessarily a "toxic" compound like they are describing it. Yes it is an oxidizing agent. So is oxygen. It might be toxic to many forms of Earth-life, but there are living things around deep sea vents, and in other "toxic" environments. In other words, one organism's toxic, could be another organism's necessity.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I think, generally speaking, we don't particularly care if we can colonise Mars with extremophile bacteria. We want humans.
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
I think BannaOj was talking about the potential for life to exist on Mars, not what type of life we should create on Mars.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
If you're going to define 'toxic' with respect to hypothetical Martian organisms, the word becomes pretty meaningless. The compund is toxic to most Earth life, in particular to humans; that's what the writer would intend to say and what his readers would understand.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
If we find life anywhere else in the universe, I will be excited. Why the heck does it have to meet "human" standards? Planetary scientists think that imposing "human" requirements on life is complete idiocy. (I know, I've talked to some of the most prominent ones there are.)
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
But, while harmful to many earth organisms in sufficient concentration, there are earth organisms that like and consume perchlorate. So "toxic" isn't really the best description. If anything, it is heartening, as it makes it more likely we could get some earth plants and bacteria to live on Mars under current conditions.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: It looks like they found perchlorate. This is an oxidizing chemical used as rocket fuel, and it doesn't bode well for life as we know it on Mars's surface.
It's also far more likely that the perchlorate came from earth with the rocket than that it actually originated on Mars.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Was that particular rocket actually propelled by KClO4?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
This is from what I would consider the "authoritative" scientific source. Nasa tends to water down things a bit.
quote:It's also far more likely that the perchlorate came from earth with the rocket than that it actually originated on Mars.
I dunno. Perchlorate is present in the boosters that got it off the ground, but not in the rockets used to assist in landing on Mars. Contamination in the payload from the booster rockets seems unlikely to me.
Edit to add: Perchlorate-based fuels are only used in solid boosters which have an uncontrolled burn - you can't throttle them or shut them off and restart them. Because of this they are only good for applying a lot of power all at once, but they wouldn't be used to make small corrections while in space or to manage a touch down.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Considering that there is an extreme shortage of atmospheric oxygen on Mars, the presense of perchlorates in the soil is a plus for the likelyhood of life. Earth's "perchlorate-eating" bacteria actually use the perchlorate as an oxygen substitute.
Be nice if the NASA coverage would name the types of perchlorates that Phoenix has found. The discovery of ammonium perchlorate would mean the presense of an exploitable quantity of nitrogen. And nitrogen is the only critical resource which would make a major Mars project economicly justifiable: everything else can be found&exploited more cheaply elsewhere.
* Made in 1964, well before the first Mars lander.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Actually the bad news--the Perchlorates are actually a hydrocarbon derivative.
The good news, finding oil on Mars has convinced President Bush to send men to mars before the end of his term.
The best news, the men going are headed by Cheney.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)