The Sci Fi channel is having a marathon Labor Day...15 TGN episodes, as voted by fans.
While I agree with some choices ("The Measure of a Man" is so wonderfully watchable), I'm getting just a little bit sick of "The Inner Light" popping up every darn time they do one of these things. Yes, it's a rare glimpse into Picard's warm and fuzzy sentimental side, but that's why I'm a bit sick of it.
I'd much rather see "Data's Day" or even a just-for-the-fun-gimmick episode like "Disaster" instead.
Which just shows how out of touch I am with most TNG fan tastes, I guess.
Which episodes would you choose as "The Best" in the series? Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Best of Both Worlds, parts 1 and 2. Hands down.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Was that the Locutus one? Yeah, that was awesome.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Time's Arrow 1 and 2 (Guinan and Mark Twain)
Posted by Humean316 (Member # 8175) on :
Sorry Puffy, but nothing in Star Trek can beat, The Inner Light.
I also like Nth Degree, Best of Both Worlds, and Drumhead. Of course, there isn't really a bad episode of TNG, only not as good episodes.
Posted by Lostinspace (Member # 11633) on :
I always liked 11001001.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I always had a soft spot for Cause and Effect (or its X-Files or Stargate counterparts for that matter)
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Humean316: Of course, there isn't really a bad episode of TNG, only not as good episodes.
Actually, I'd rather forget about most of Season One and a third of Season Two. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
"The Best of Both Worlds" is an amazing two-parter. I'll also second "Cause and Effect" and "Time's Arrow."
I like "All Good Things..." It has everything -- space-time anomalies, Q, time travel, saving the Galaxy, Picard in his bare feet, talk of humanity's potential, Tasha Yar, and the senior officers' poker game (how Riker ever wins when playing against a woman who can read his emotions and an android who can count cards and accurately calculate odds is beyond me).
I thought "Tapestry" was a better Picard episode than "The Inner Light."
"Frame of Mind" was an interesting episode. I like how the play was mixed in with all the other things Riker was experiencing.
*Goes to look at list of TNG episodes*
Other ones I like are "I, Borg," "Ship in a Bottle," "Rascals," "The Drumhead," "Starship Mine," "Qpid," and "Unification."
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
Best of Both Worlds Rocked. Yesterday's Enterprise was great too. The episode where Picard gets hit by the alien probe and lives another life was great. I really loved that.
In 1994 before the series wrapped up, they did a 5 episode marathon that the viewers voted on as best episodes. William Frakes hosted it, I still have it on a vcr tape (althoug no vcr). The 4 I mentioned above were on it, I don't remember the 5th.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Shoot, I can't remember the title, but the one where Picard is tortured by Cardassians. Also, The Inner Light, Best of Both Worlds, and Deja-Q. And I rather like The Offspring and Darmok. Okay, and I love Relics, too (c'mon, who doesn't like Scotty?).
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
"Parallels" was great fun. All those alternate Worf-verses, then the best moment of the episode, when crazy alternate-Riker tries to kill Worf.
"The Borg have killed everyone! We're not going back! WE'RE NOT GOING BAAAAAACK!"
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
Yesterday's Enterprise, Cause and Effect, The Inner Light, Darmok. Not necessarily in that order.
The First Duty was particularly good, too.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Humean316: Sorry Puffy, but nothing in Star Trek can beat, The Inner Light.
I also like Nth Degree, Best of Both Worlds, and Drumhead. Of course, there isn't really a bad episode of TNG, only not as good episodes.
Oh, there are stinkers. First and second season episodes were hit and miss. The one where Yar dies is a truly awful hour of television.
Edit: one of the best was "Elementary, Dear Data," that was a very smart episode.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Oh, there are stinkers. First and second season episodes were hit and miss. The one where Yar dies is a truly awful hour of television.
...Just about anything with Lwaxana Troi...
Not quite enough of a Trekkie (Trekker... Whatever...) to immediately know shows by title, but I liked "The Most Toys" for daring to have some moral gray area.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hey! No badmouthing Majel! I love Lwaxana. *GLARE*
quote:Originally posted by stihl1: The episode where Picard gets hit by the alien probe and lives another life was great. I really loved that.
*narrowed eyes* Are you being cute?
Posted by Humean316 (Member # 8175) on :
quote:The one where Yar dies is a truly awful hour of television.
I stand corrected. Maybe I just blocked that one out....
I forgot about Yesterday's Enterprise and All Good Things, those were great too.
Hey how about favorites from other series? Twilight from Enterprise was simply great as was pretty much the entire story-line of season 3, and I always liked DS9's final 10 episodes to conclude the Dominion arc.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Oh, there are stinkers. First and second season episodes were hit and miss. The one where Yar dies is a truly awful hour of television.
...Just about anything with Lwaxana Troi...
Not quite enough of a Trekkie (Trekker... Whatever...) to immediately know shows by title, but I liked "The Most Toys" for daring to have some moral gray area.
The Most Toys was a good episode. Especially the part at the end when Data might have lied about the phaser... that was cool.
Troi was one of those weird holdovers from the old Roddenberry school of annoying and pointless characters (wasn't it Roddenberry's wife?). What's really odd looking back on some of the old episodes is how old fashioned some of the characterization really is on those early shows. I have read that this led to general conflict among the writers, and it was the reason Roddenberry eventually stepped down, just before he died. He never really understood the difference between a sci-fi magazine in the 50's and television in the late 80's, that people were starting to want new ways of telling stories, and that's why those "phase 2" adapted scripts are so inferior to the work that Berman and the newer writers started in later seasons and on DS9.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Man this is hard:
Season 1: "Hide and Q" "11001001"
Season 2: "Elementary, Dear Data" "A Matter of Honor" "The Measure of a Man" "Q Who?"
Season 3: "The Ensigns of Command" "Deja Q" "Yesterday's Enterprise" "The Offspring" "Sins of the Father" "Captain's Holiday" "The Best of Both Worlds"
Season 4: "The Best of Both Worlds II" "Family" "The Drumhead"
Season 5: "Darmok" "Silicon Avatar" "Cause and Effect" "The First Rule" "I, Borg" "The Inner Light"
Season 6: "Rascals" "Chain of Command" "Tapestry" "Frame of Mind"
Season 7: "Gambit" "Dark Page" "Parallels" "Journey's End" "Preemptive Strike" "All Good Things"
Out of those, my top fifteen, in no particular order, would be: "All Good Things," "Gambit," "Chain of Command," "Tapestry," "The Inner Light," "Silicon Avatar," "The Best of Both Worlds" "The Measure of a Man," "Elementary, Dear Data," "Yesterday's Enterprise," "Family," and "I, Borg."
I left out a bunch of fun episodes because I feel like I should reward the truly awesome ones. It's like picking "Far Beyond the Stars" in DS9 over "Badda Bing Badda Bang" in the mind blowingly awesome vs. hilarious and fun awesome debate. Though in DS9 I probably would have picked both. I think I'd have a harder time doing a top 15 for DS9 than TNG.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I went looking at DS9 episodes, as I only remember the titles of a few off the top of my head, and here are some favorites of mine:
"The Search," "Past Tense," "Explorers," "Family Business." That's all I really like from the first three seasons. I think the show really started to hit its stride in Season 4, and only got better from then on.
It's hard to start picking favorites here because I love so much of it, "The Way of the Warrior" has some of the sweetest battle scenes in all of Star Trek, "The Visitor" has an awesome story from Jake Sisko's point of view, "Little Green Men" is one of many hilarious Quark and Co. adventures, "Homefront" & "Paradise Lost" add a bit of contemporary politics into the mix and at the same time explore a strike on Earth, which hadn't even been fathomed before, "Bar Association" is another funny one, and it goes on and on. I'd have an easier time listing the episodes I don't like rather than the ones I do.
But if I REALLY had to cull a list down to a chosen few: "For the Uniform," "Sacrifice of Angels," "The Magnificent Ferengi," "Far Beyond the Stars," "In the Pale Moonlight," "The Sound of Her Voice," "The Siege of AR-558," "Badda Bing Badda Bang," "What You Leave Behind."
That leaves out so many good episodes it's almost a crime.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: What's really odd looking back on some of the old episodes is how old fashioned some of the characterization really is on those early shows. I have read that this led to general conflict among the writers, and it was the reason Roddenberry eventually stepped down, just before he died. He never really understood the difference between a sci-fi magazine in the 50's and television in the late 80's, that people were starting to want new ways of telling stories, and that's why those "phase 2" adapted scripts are so inferior to the work that Berman and the newer writers started in later seasons and on DS9.
Keep in mind that Roddenberry was never as deeply involved in the creative side of things on the original show as his own personal mythology (to put it kindly) skewed it in later years.
I still have an old book of my dad's (made when the original series was still in production) that has his thoughts on the show back before he started taking credit for things that didn't originate with him...it's a startling difference.
His heavy-handed attempts to plot-hammer the early years of TNG resulted in some truly awful creative choices.
[ August 27, 2008, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Yeah, I personally never put much stock in Roddenberry as a writer. He pretty much skipped over the whole idea of characterization in favor of parables that left his actual characters as little more than talking heads. You might have a hard time reconciling the actions of many of the characters in the first few seasons with their evolved personas of later years.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: I'm getting just a little bit sick of "The Inner Light" popping up every darn time they do one of these things.
I find 'The Inner Light' very "meh", too.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I can't tell which TNG ep is which by title, but my picks would be the two-part Locutus one and the two-part 1984 homage one ("there are four lights").
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hey! No badmouthing Majel! I love Lwaxana. *GLARE*
She does a great job as the various iterations of the ship's computer. I'm just not terribly fond of the NG episodes where she takes center stage. The "you had a sibling" episode in particular was a rather weak piece of melodrama, in my opinion.
But, hey, to each their own.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Go read Q-in-Law. When you're done, we'll talk.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I wasn't keen on Q-in-Law. PAD wrote -every- darn character as "The smart-mouthed 12 year old" no matter what their actual personality.
That said, I have enjoyed some of the Lwaxana episodes where they gave her depth beyond being a wacky sex-fiend. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I wasn't keen on Q-in-Law. PAD wrote -every- darn character as "The smart-mouthed 12 year old" no matter what their actual personality.
You are wrong. So very, very wrong.
*pat pat* But that's ok. Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Everyone has mentioned a number of the heavy hitters. So I'll nominate a few others.
"Who watches the watchers"- 'The Picard', as a supreme being. Really very well done and thought-provoking. Like TOS "Who mourns for Adonis?' but on steroids and for a smarter audience. Raises some interesting moral questions about religion.
"Sarek". I can't believe no one mentioned this. Picard channeling a Vulcan's centuries of repressed emotions. His confession about his love for his wife and son was just amazing.
"Remember Me"- Crusher is trapped in a space-time bubble where the universe is under her unconscious control. Just a fun episode- has mystery, great pacing, and loved the psuedo-science, techno-babble resolution. Was where I, at 14, first learned the term 'extrapolate' and how useful it can be.
"Reunion"- Worf's woman returns. Worf goes Klingon on Duras' butt. Very satisfying, especially when he and his son do the traditional Klingon mourning at the death of K'Lar.
"The Devil's Due"- A nation sells its soul to the Devil and she comes back for payment. Again, just fun, interesting, and somewhat thought provoking.
"Ensign Ro"- I just love Michelle Forbes. And this character of a Bajoran woman really was so freaking interesting. Strong yet vulnerable. Love seeing her take a leap of faith in trusting Picard. Loved seeing Guinan draw her out. And was glad to see her on the road to redemption.
"The Perfect Mate"- ahhh, Famke Jansen. Indeed, the perfect mate. Picard falls in love. And she bonds with him. But, greatest of ironies, she has bonded with him to the point that she will put duty above her own heart, to marry a man who couldn't care less about that aspect of this union.
"Chain of command"- I don't know if this was mentioned. A great Amnesty Internation episode on the horrors of torture. Again, Picard runs the gamut of emotion. And the chilling ending: "But what I didn't tell him, was that I began to see 5 lights"...pull out to the stars. Just amazing.
"Second Chances"- Yeah, I loved it. Course, I had just read Imzadi, and was in a perfect frame of mind for it. A great what if. What if you could have your cake and eat it too? I wanted to believe that Thomas and Deanna could make it. And after 8(?) years, they were different people. But Riker had a point. If he had been there, he would have left Deanna just like...he actually did. Still very well done. Too bad they dropped Thomas and never mentioned him again, except for a brief cameo on DS9.
"Inheritance"- Data's mother. And what a great twist. She is a later model android. Just enjoyed it.
"Preemptive Strike"- And Ro Lehren leaves. The painful moral struggle of Lehren wanting to be true to her duty, but also to do what she longs to, accompanied by the hurt and betrayal felt by Riker and, most of all, by Picard, really made this one.
Ahh, there are just so many good ones. They should also do a 'worst of' list. So many hilariously stupid moments. Wil Wheaton does a great episode-by-episode review here. Freaking hilarious.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It's funny... I saw the thread title, and the first thing I thought was, "The Inner Light".
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Awesome link, Ian!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Too bad they dropped Thomas and never mentioned him again, except for a brief cameo on DS9.
I loved the Thomas appearances on DS9. Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
As did I. But it was so brief and his character was never used beyond that episode.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I liked the failed spin-off Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
"Yar calls Riker out of his quarters, where he's been watching two holographic young women play the harps together. (Uh, yeah. I have an easier time suspending my disbelief for faster-than-light travel and kids on the bridge than accepting that a dude, alone in his quarters, pulls up two pretty young holographic women to play harps together.)"
:wipes tears off keyboard: priceless. just priceless.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:(how Riker ever wins when playing against a woman who can read his emotions and an android who can count cards and accurately calculate odds is beyond me)
Data can't bluff... can he?
And I have to admit I haven't seen them ALL, and haven't seen many episodes in quite a while. The Inner Light does stand out, but that's kinda obvious.
And of course there are those two obscure episodes with Ashley Judd in them. I don't remember anything about them... except that they had Ashley Judd in them (damn you, Wil Wheaton... DAMN YOU!).
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by IanO:
"Who watches the watchers"- 'The Picard', as a supreme being. Really very well done and thought-provoking. Like TOS "Who mourns for Adonis?' but on steroids and for a smarter audience. Raises some interesting moral questions about religion.
It raises them, but then it makes clear (at least as far as the episode writer is concerned) what the one and only true answer is to these questions. Even the Nitpicker's Guide guy found this one to be a bit heavy-handed in delivering the message. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I wasn't keen on Q-in-Law. PAD wrote -every- darn character as "The smart-mouthed 12 year old" no matter what their actual personality.
You are wrong. So very, very wrong.
*pat pat* But that's ok.
I'm write. I'm so very right. The only novels even worse with the PAD-effect were Imzadi and Q-Squared. The other ones he managed to keep people in character and stop patting himself on the back for cramming in a continuity reference.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Not sure what it's called, but my favorite is the one where they play poker like fifty times. It may have already been mentioned.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
A lot of these favorites are, unsurprisingly, also Patrick Stewart's showcases of excellent acting. They are SO lucky to have had him. *swoons*
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by IanO: "Yar calls Riker out of his quarters, where he's been watching two holographic young women play the harps together. (Uh, yeah. I have an easier time suspending my disbelief for faster-than-light travel and kids on the bridge than accepting that a dude, alone in his quarters, pulls up two pretty young holographic women to play harps together.)"
:wipes tears off keyboard: priceless. just priceless.
I dunno, supposedly all humans in the Federation have given up monetary desires. Seems that if they can accomplish that, they could roll back the sexual objectification of women, if not completely abolish it. Somehow though, not a single male has an effeminate personality in the trek verse. But I could be wrong, my experience extends to the original series, TNG, and most of Voyager, with just a pinch of DS9.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The only sexual objectification of women in DS9 comes from Ferengi. Other than that? It's a lot of really smart women beating the crap out of Klingons and Jem'Hadar.
I mean there might have been a tiny bit here and there, but nothing comes to mind off the top of my head. TNG's women were Crusher and Troi, a doctor and a therapist. DS9's women were Kira and Dax. Kira is the second in command of the space station, former resistance leader and kicker of butts, and Dax is a science officer (the smartest person around most of the time) and has the memories of a Klingon diplomat who also is a kicker of butts. The person most often making the namby pamby moral argument is usually Dr. Bashir, a man, rather than Troi or Crusher, women. Bashir also rarely if ever gets into fights, and when he does, usually gets the crap kicked out of him until someone rescues him. I'd call him the most effeminate, but I think it has less to do with that than his naivete, which the war, and for that matter, O'Brien and Garak, cure him of.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
"Chain of Command" was the episode that hooked me. I also would nominate "The Naked Now" just for the guilty pleasure of it all.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You dissed Imzadi?!?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The only sexual objectification of women in DS9 comes from Ferengi. Other than that? It's a lot of really smart women beating the crap out of Klingons and Jem'Hadar.
Seven of Nine was the target of criticism for being sexually evocative, but she wasn't treated that way on the show.
But I mean, seriously, her outfits were embarrassing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
For Voyager yeah, I'll agree. She wasn't treated that way as a character on the show, but anyone watching would be hard pressed to disagree that Jerry Ryan was at least partially brought on to be anything but a sex symbol of sorts. I found her whole Borg to individual thing mildly interesting, but I was more interested in the Doctor's struggle to be recognized as a person, which was delved into much more heavily than Data's similar struggle.
I've watched all of VOY through once, and have never seen reruns, so I don't remember as much about it. I was mostly throwing out my two cents on DS9.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
yeah well....thousands (or millions) of years of biological imperatives and the profoundly (for men) visual cues that indicate fertility don't just get thrown away because you have a transporter. Plus, there have been a few eps, even in VOY that showed the Holodeck being used for...romantic play. No one batted an eye.
I think the argument is that if no one is hurting anyone and its imaginary, there's nothing wrong with it. People make that argument now!
So, getting back to the point, this is Riker, who has always been shown to be an appreciater of females and their beauty (Justice, anyone?) and has pulled a number of them toward him (as a PC Kirk), alone in his quarters, not hurting anyone, just appreciating the female form....To say nothing of Barclay- a guy who could barely get 2 words out, whose fantasy was Deanna calling out to him and Crusher swinging on a swing. Riiiiiiigght. (rolls eyes) I'm just sayin.
Scrubs quote:
“I am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn.”
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
case in point Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
You kiddin'? Riker's collection of video material is probably overflowing the memory banks on the Enterprise...
quote:Somehow though, not a single male has an effeminate personality in the trek verse.
quote:Originally posted by rivka: You dissed Imzadi?!?
I loathedImzadi. So much so that I've all but blocked it out from my memory, except for that fact. I seem to recall it actually managing to beat Tears of the Singers for the title of Worst Trek Novel Ever.
In my humble opinion, anyway. Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
As for the main question... I can't really decide, though I'd probably go with "All Good Things" if pressed.
And while they're certainly not the best TNG episodes, I'm rather fond of "Lower Decks" (from the perspective of a few junior officers) and "Relics" (with Scotty).
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: You kiddin'? Riker's collection of video material is probably overflowing the memory banks on the Enterprise...
quote:Somehow though, not a single male has an effeminate personality in the trek verse.
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: ...I'm getting just a little bit sick of "The Inner Light"...
Inhuman. Have you no soul?
I was nine the first time I saw it and I remember thinking to myself..."I'm gonna tell all my friends at school how cool star trek is!!" needless to say they all punched me in the face with 49ers jerseys and new kids on the block cd's. Or something like that.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Was it before they changed the 49er uniform color from fire-engine red to that stupid slightly darker red?
Posted by String (Member # 6435) on :
Well it was 92 so I want to say yes
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
quote:Originally posted by String: needless to say they all punched me in the face with 49ers jerseys and new kids on the block cd's. Or something like that.
Ah, yes. I remember it well. (At least the football and the NKOTB.) Except I don't remember ever telling anyone I was into TNG. That was always my own happy place where I had no interest in anyone else going.
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The only novels even worse with the PAD-effect were Imzadi and Q-Squared. The other ones he managed to keep people in character and stop patting himself on the back for cramming in a continuity reference.
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