Kevin Smith has seen an early cut of the 2009 Star Trek movie. He said that Christopher Pine steals the show as young Kirk, and that Uhura turns out to be a very interesting character.
In reaction to these remarks across the blog-o-sphere, I noted many variations of the comment seen in my thread title. Fans of TOS Trek that feel a Uhura who's more than a glorified switchboard operator is...unholy, somehow. Like Spock telling knock knock jokes, or Kirk turning down a chance to make time.
Some are even going as far as to say that giving Uhura a beefed up role would be -truly- racist and sexist, because "the only reason they're doing it is because she's black and a woman."
Well gracious! Next they might have Sulu do something more than fence and smirk!
Seriously, what's wrong with giving the TOS supporting characters something more than what they've had for...well...decades? Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
But they can't change it at all! It needs to be exactly like the show!
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Yes! The real Enterprise runs on dilithium crystals and is suspended in space by black thread! Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
The show suc-- Wait. Hatrack might not be the right crowd for this. Let me think this through.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Hmm. Change is needed anyway. Star Trek became stale and decadent a decade ago. They need a new beginning, a new start.
A new cast. A new vitality. The ennui of the old series is hopefully over, and perhaps we'll get something that's high quality based on the higher standards of the current age, like the original was for the standards of the 60's.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TL: The show suc-- Wait. Hatrack might not be the right crowd for this. Let me think this through.
BURN HIM!!!
Whoever thinks Uhura shouldn't get an expanded role should be tied down and forced to listen to someone read them Uhura's Song and Tears of the Singers until their ears bleed.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by TL: The show suc-- Wait. Hatrack might not be the right crowd for this. Let me think this through.
Well, actually, I'm one of those infidels who feels TNG and DS9 were far superior to TOS.
I love some episodes of TOS, enjoy others, but mostly admire it for the considerable affection it inspired. It's almost the definitive example of fan-love making an old canceled show -mean- much more than it originally did.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If we're talking the episodes alone, I agree. (You can even toss in the movies. ) But the TOS novels that pocket put out in the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s are far superior (by and large) to most of the TNG novels. Which aren't bad; just not as good.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Well, actually, I'm one of those infidels who feels TNG and DS9 were far superior to TOS.
Wait, you mean that's uncommon?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
When I speak of the series, I mainly refer to the canonical adventures. According to Paramount, with the exception of adaptations of episodes and films, none of the novels, comics, and cartoons happened in the baseline Trek continuity...except for those that did.
(In my personal canon, Spock -did- travel through the Guardian of Forever to save his younger self, darn it!)
[ September 11, 2008, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon:
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Well, actually, I'm one of those infidels who feels TNG and DS9 were far superior to TOS.
Wait, you mean that's uncommon?
Judging by the way other boards have reacted to the opinion, sometimes. You'd think I'd danced on Gene Roddenberry's grave.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: (In my personal canon, Spock -did- travel through the Guardian of Forever to save his younger self, darn it!)
Damn straight. Not to mention his son.
Twice.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Gene Roddenberry was half a hack when it came to characterization. I like the shows that came out of the 90's, but honestly, beyond a few exceptions, his characters were mouth pieces for his authorial voice. You can see his involvement in the early years of TNG, and that stuff just doesn't hold up like the work that was done later, and in the other series.
That might be a minority opinion, but Star Trek was always about ideas. Those ideas don't happen to be that new anymore, and so it makes sense to focus more on characterization.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I can stomach the stuff Roddenberry wrote before he developed this personal mythology that combined fan projections of what the original show truly meant with a decided tendency to take credit for everything people liked whether it was his idea or not. It was a product of it's time. A bit more western-y than The Twilight Zone in his tackling of social issues. It's later that he got unbearably preachy and intensely fixated on three main themes.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Star Wars VS Star Trek below, VOTE NOW! Only one show will remain after this!
That's a tough question actually. If all references to the losing show had to disappear which would I choose to keep?
I need to mull that one over.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Whoever thinks Uhura shouldn't get an expanded role should be tied down and forced to listen to someone read them Uhura's Song and Tears of the Singers until their ears bleed.
In the case of the latter, that wouldn't take long.
That particular case aside, I agree with the overall point about the TOS novels, and Uhura's expanded role therein.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I believe you just dissed one of my favorite books.
This means pistols at dawn!
. . . except dawn is way too early for me. Can we say noon? And let's see, tomorrow is WAY booked. *flip, flip* How's Monday for you?
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
...hmm. I've got another duel booked for Monday; difference of opinion over which way the toilet paper should hang from the roll. How about Wednesday? I could do Wednesday.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
"But the TOS novels that pocket put out in the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s are far superior (by and large) to most of the TNG novels. Which aren't bad; just not as good. "
There's a reason for that, but I'll have to go home and check my copy of "Voyages of the Imagination: The Star Trek Fiction Companion" for details. Short version: Paramount and certain personages in the Roddenberry camp did their best to dumb down the novels and succeeded for an annoyingly long time, which is why long ago I stopped reading any Star Trek books that didn't have "Peter David" or "Diane Duane" on the cover.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: How about Wednesday? I could do Wednesday.
If it's going to be Wednesday, it will have to be later than noon. Tuesday is my late night at work next week. Shall we say 2-ish?
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Paramount and certain personages in the Roddenberry camp did their best to dumb down the novels and succeeded for an annoyingly long time, which is why long ago I stopped reading any Star Trek books that didn't have "Peter David" or "Diane Duane" on the cover.
I am well aware, and except for specific other ones that have been recommended to me, have taken a similar tack.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: How about Wednesday? I could do Wednesday.
If it's going to be Wednesday, it will have to be later than noon. Tuesday is my late night at work next week. Shall we say 2-ish?
Let's see... 2-ish your time is 5-ish mine. How about an hour after that? I could manage 3-ish PDT.
As you made the challenge, I believe I have the choice of weapons. [ponder] I'm tempted to go with the Lirpa, but you could seriously hurt somebody with one of those things. Especially yourself. How about haiku? Or limericks. Limericks at 20 paces.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I am offically a Star Trek heathen.
I opened this thread wondering if it was about somebody in Zimbabwe or Kenya
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: When I speak of the series, I mainly refer to the canonical adventures. According to Paramount, with the exception of adaptations of episodes and films, none of the novels, comics, and cartoons happened in the baseline Trek continuity...except for those that did.
(In my personal canon, Spock -did- travel through the Guardian of Forever to save his younger self, darn it!)
I consider The Counter-Clock Incident to be canon, and I consider Enterprise to be poorly written fan-fic.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The Price of the Phoenix & The Fate of the Phoenix Battlestations & Dreadnought Final Frontier & Best Destiny Strangers from the Sky How Much for Just the Planet? My Enemy, My Ally Pawns and Symbols Vulcan's Glory Ishmael Prime Directive The Romulan Way The Final Reflection Killing Time
In no particular order (except for the Phoenix books being at the top).
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Non Canon can become Canon if it gets mentioned in canon. Ex, The T in James T Kirk standing for Tiberius was first mentioned in TOS, which made it non canon, but when he used that name in ...The UNdiscovered Country? it became canon.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by romanylass: Non Canon can become Canon if it gets mentioned in canon. Ex, The T in James T Kirk standing for Tiberius was first mentioned in TOS, which made it non canon, but when he used that name in ...The UNdiscovered Country? it became canon.
Being mentioned in TOS made it non-canon? Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
s/TOS/TAS
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: Let's see... 2-ish your time is 5-ish mine. How about an hour after that? I could manage 3-ish PDT.
As you made the challenge, I believe I have the choice of weapons. [ponder] I'm tempted to go with the Lirpa, but you could seriously hurt somebody with one of those things. Especially yourself. How about haiku? Or limericks. Limericks at 20 paces.
Wednesday, 3-ish PDT, limericks at 20 paces. Check.
Hey, aren't we supposed to have seconds?
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Wednesday, 3-ish PDT, limericks at 20 paces. Check.
Hey, aren't we supposed to have seconds?
Yes, but I suspect that under the circumstances we'd both want Chris. Maybe he could stand in for both of us?
...actually, maybe we should just sit back and let him duel himself for us. I'll bring the lemonade...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: ...actually, maybe we should just sit back and let him duel himself for us. I'll bring the lemonade...
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I am offically a Star Trek heathen. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)