Is there already a thread for the new season? I know I don't usually contribute much to the Heroes threads, but I LOVE reading them and I'm totally pumped up for tonight!!!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I'll probably give them the benefit of the doubt, but unless it is a huge improvement over last season (and the last couple episodes of the first, for that matter), I just don't see myself regularly watching it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll just pretend that season 2 never happened.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
See, I didn't hate season 2. The first ten episodes of season 1 were slow and imperfect too - so I have faith it would have improved if not for the strike.
Season 3 starts next week here. Can't wait.
I'm going to try very hard to keep away from spoilers...
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
This thread does not deliver. I thought it was going to be a discussion of the classic old computer game, Heroes of Might and Magic III. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
HoMM3 was my thought as well, although unfortunately it won't run under OS X 10.5.
The new season of Heroes starts tonight?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm with Bella. I didn't hate Season 2 either. But from what I've read, Season 3 is intended to be a very soft reboot of the show. From some vague spoilers that I've read, it sounds like they have some really exciting stuff planned.
Personally I'm at the point where I think the introductions are done. It's time to get on with the show! From the commercials I've seen, it looks like that might be happening. Heroes is likely going to be the only show this Fall that I watch every week like clockwork. Television ain't what it used to be.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Heroes and The Tudors are my two.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I never made it all the way through The Tudors. It's porn with an above average plot (for porn).
Unless it got better after the first few episodes.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: This thread does not deliver. I thought it was going to be a discussion of the classic old computer game, Heroes of Might and Magic III.
This is precisely what I thought the thread was about.
What an awesome game. Posted by krynn (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: This thread does not deliver. I thought it was going to be a discussion of the classic old computer game, Heroes of Might and Magic III.
haha i thought that at first too. i actually just bought the 5th one for my dad not long ago and the expansion. he loves turn based strategy games.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
From the interviews I've read, the show's creators actually -like- that the strike happened, as they feel it gave them a chance to figure out how to retool and save the show.
We'll see.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Ms.C loves heroes, she never shuts up about it. Gets kinda annoying; I never have any idea what she is talking about.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
They are making me choose between Prison Break and Heroes. Even though Prison Break isn't anything like it used to be, I still don't see me choosing to watch Heroes live. Season two was just awful.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: From the interviews I've read, the show's creators actually -like- that the strike happened, as they feel it gave them a chance to figure out how to retool and save the show.
They were extra-fortunate to have an opportunity to can the second season prematurely, because it was utter trash.
I still think about the people defending second season and now note how it's a position in remiss of what even the creators thought. Bit of premature zealotry, that.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I haven't even considered watching this show. I felt that the first season was pretty obviously attempting to be a one-season wonder of the type we don't get to see much of around here (unfortunately) and when they violated that (somewhere in the last couple of episodes) I gave up in disgust.
Of course, it may be that they always intended for it to have many seasons, and I missed the point completely. Maybe I watch too much anime. But it definitely had the feel of a mini-series for the bulk of season one.
IOW, they jumped the shark before S01 was even over.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I never made it all the way through The Tudors. It's porn with an above average plot (for porn).
Unless it got better after the first few episodes.
Hahahaha. This is the best description of the Tudors I've yet heard. The parentheses make it.
And no, there's been no real improvement.
/edit
quote:IOW, they jumped the shark before S01 was even over.
The first season was okay, like a wobbly legged baby gazelle which eventually gets its bearing and bounds clumsily off towards greatness!
Then season two was our charming little baby gazelle running headlong into a baobob and there's this sickening crunch sound and we're not sure he's ever going to be quite right again. I believe the words I used to describe it then, besides "Heroes sucks" and "wow heroes REALLY sucks" were "Heroes is now in geostationary orbit above the shark."
Season three is the make it or break it part. Is it going to suck, or rule? Is babby gazelle okay???
TUNE IN TO FIND OUT
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
I'm super excited. I too was let down by Season 2, however I felt it showed potential in the last two episodes.
What gives me real hope is an interview I read with Tim Kring somewhere where he mentioned what he thought were the major flaws of the show; and everything he listed was exactly what fans seem to have disliked. So....if that's any indication, the creators now know what will please us. I have high hopes I enjoy the show.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
What he labeled as mistakes did not include (I think?) the thing that bugged me the most: That the challenges and strife faced by characters such as peter and HRG had become defined by characters not revealing obvious things to each other in order to generate shallow crappy drama.
Oh also Peter seems to have used his power absorption ability to suck up a good quantity of mohinder's obliviousness.
tl;dr version: bad writing Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Damn. I missed the first five minutes. What happened?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well that was...different.
I'd have to see it all the way through again to even try and address everything they did. But I've decided that time travel = not so much fun.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Mohinder is a fracking idiot.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Well, yes, but that's just sticking with established canon. He's been a fracking idiot since day one.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Well that was...different.
Great summary. Still not sure if I liked it or not, but it WAS different.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: This thread does not deliver. I thought it was going to be a discussion of the classic old computer game, Heroes of Might and Magic III.
This is precisely what I thought the thread was about.
What an awesome game.
I'm with you guys.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Wow okay whoopee this is rapidly approaching laughably bad, not just the sad bad of last season.
quick someone call jeff goldblum
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
In other news, there was a span of a few minutes where all I really wanted to do was have my wicked way with Mohinder.
And, well, about that last Angela revelation - really? To quote someone else somewhere, I'm starting to get get why Petrelli Sr. killed himself.
All in all, it was an entertaining - and quickly-passing - two hours of my life tonight. I'll stick with it, even if I'm the only one.
(Edit because verbs are our friends.)
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
That was seriously terrible. I mean, just terrible. What a steaming pile of crap.
Posted by jh (Member # 7727) on :
I enjoyed it, except for Suresh. Ugh, why can't he just die already?? I'll definitely be watching the episodes to come, I can't wait to see how things unfold.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I had a wonderful time. They picked the pace back up, they stuck to a small core of characters, and they clearly identified the story arc. "Save ourselves, save the world."
The thing that surprised me the most was that I actually liked Ali Larter's character. That was the first time ever I didn't use her scenes as an extra commercial break.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I'm not so sure that Angela is actually Sylar's mother. I think she might be either manipulating him normally or with some sort of power. Just because she has precognitive dreams doesn't mean she can't have other powers, too.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I dunno. Something in the hour preview had me wondering if Angela could be Sylar's mother. I dismissed it immediately since we've met Sylar's mom, but there was definitely some indefinable vibe heading that way, in my opinion.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
My favorite line: CLAIRE: Are you going to eat my brain? SYLAR: That's disgusting.
The shirtless Mohinder thing was just ridiculous. I laughed through most of that scene.
My problem is that I've only ever seen the previous episodes once, when they aired, and I'm really fuzzy on details. So I spent much of this episode wondering if I had forgotten things or if it was a legitimate mystery. Like the whole Tracy thing...I don't remember how Nikki ended last season, so what's going on with that?
--Mel
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
What's with the X-Men theft? It's like they're making Mohinder into Beast, first off... and they call their "evil master of magnetism" the German? Yeesh.
Beyond that, this episode was... meh. Hoping the second is better, or they might lose me.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I almost averted my eyes when Mohinder walked around with his shirt off. After a while, I shouted, "Put your shirt on!" He didn't listen.
Of course, we already knew he was an idiot, so at least he was in character.
I actually thought the episodes were decent. My biggest problem with season 1 was the pace and so far we've got a nice, brisk pace with enough setup of interesting subplots that I think they can maintain that pace for a while.
Of course, the show was never perfect. Syler's character always sucked and now he can't die. Great.
In season 1, Peter was my second favorite character (after Hiro) but he is rapidly approaching my least favorite (after Nicki/Jessie). First of all, I think he only knows one expression. Also, just like Syler, he was written as too powerful. I think his power would have been much better if it worked the way I thought it did at first -- which was that he needed to be near someone to use their power.
I still like Hiro. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Hiro is also a fracking idiot.
I'm going to give the show a chance, because I did enjoy the episode despite the fact that I didn't think it was very good. [Added: For a season titled "Villains," They didn't really set the villains up at all the way they did with Syler in S1. The villains are just a bunch of guys with strong powers who for no apparent reason enjoy killing people.]
Next week, The Tudors. Mmmmmmm, Anne Boleyn.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:The villains are just a bunch of guys with strong powers who for no apparent reason enjoy killing people.
Well except for the guy who increases in strength as he feeds off your fear. I imagine it's likely that, causing fear in others is like a drug for him.
But they can always establish those villain's pasts in episodes throughout the season.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I thought they set up the villains just fine for the first 2 episodes in a 22-episode season. How deeply do you expect we'd get into their character in an hour and a half? So far we know that the company thought they were dangerous enough to lock up and now they're loose. I imagine we'll learn a lot more about them over the next 20 episodes. Or at least, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt right now.
I don't think Hiro is an idiot. He's naive.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
quote:Originally posted by jh: I enjoyed it, except for Suresh. Ugh, why can't he just die already??
He's the voiceover.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: quick someone call jeff goldblum
See, Wikipedia says that that scene is an homage to "The Fly" and the scene in episode one where Claire hides in the closet from Sylar is an homage to "Halloween". Is the only difference between "paying homages" and "being derivative" that they admit that they were copying right up front?
quote: He's the voiceover.
Dang. They just need to hire another British actor and pass the torch.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I do want to mention, though, that the time travel stuff is driving me nuts. Since season 1, the show has tried to set up tension by showing us some horrible doomsday thing that someone (a painter, a fortune teller, or a time traveler) sees in the future and it never worked for me. Show me bad things happening now and let my imagination take care of what could be.
Future Peter was the worst part of last night's episode.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I agree, Christine. Once I realized we were dealing with three Peters, I gave completely up. I watched it last night out of boredom, but I think next week I'll read "Ender's Game" for the forty-seventh time instead.
Posted by Lanfear (Member # 7776) on :
Honestly, there was just too many reveals. Too many "jaw-dropping" moments, that don't necessary fit with their own canon.
Less is more sometimes ya know? They could of had one big reveal and taken it a bit slower so we could digest the craziness.
That said, anything that reunites Veronica with her beloved Weevil, is an epic win in my book.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lanfear: That said, anything that reunites Veronica with her beloved Weevil, is an epic win in my book.
Amen to that.
I dug everything except the Tale of Two Idiots, starring Mohinda and Maya. I have vague hopes that they'll just be unceremoniously killed off, Isaac-style, sometime in the next few episodes.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: I agree, Christine. Once I realized we were dealing with three Peters, I gave completely up. I watched it last night out of boredom, but I think next week I'll read "Ender's Game" for the forty-seventh time instead.
Where did you get three? There's the future Peter with the scar, and the current Peter who's trapped inside Weevil's body. Did I miss one?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lanfear: Honestly, there was just too many reveals.
<snicker> I guess Lost fans and Heroes fans need to trade places. "Too many reveals!" "Not enough reveals!" "Tastes better!" "Less filling!" "You got chocolate in my peanut butter!" "You got peanut butter in my chocolate!"
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lanfear: Honestly, there was just too many reveals.
<snicker> I guess Lost fans and Heroes fans need to trade places. "Too many reveals!" "Not enough reveals!" "Tastes better!" "Less filling!" "You got chocolate in my peanut butter!" "You got peanut butter in my chocolate!"
I had no problems with the number of reveals. It's about time the show went somewhere! I just hope they can keep it up.
I Only counted 2 Peters, too.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Of course, the show was never perfect. Syler's character always sucked and now he can't die. Great.
The annoying thing about Sylar is that we keep seeing these little glimpses every now and then of a good character, but it never really goes anywhere. Honestly, I think they just did too good of a casting job, because Quinto seems to keep injecting just enough humanness to keep this one dimensional character around.
There have definitely been some good moments, in my opinion. I liked the interaction between Isaac and Sylar, for example, and the point where he finds out that he might be the bomb and calls Mohinder is one of the bes the character is had.
In season 2, there was definitely some potential there with the loss of powers, but all we got was more "I need teh powers, I will eat your brain (or apparently study, but still...). I am sp3cial."
Really, I would much rather see them do something interesting with the character, since I think that there is a lot of potential, but if they're just going to stick to the same shallowness we've seen so far I'd rather they just killed him off.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
See, the 'can't die' thing is frustrating. There was that, and the persistently stupid myth that we only use 10% of our brains. Man, get so tired of hearing that one. And from Sylar, of all people, who really should know better!
Anyway, the 'can't die' thing: Sylar's body is subject to the same forces everyone else is, but as everyone knows, he can heal from it. Well, toss him into an incinerator! And not just, I dunno, a paper incinerator or something, I'm talking crematorium on steroids with some gasoline sprayed in there for good measure. He can't heal if there's literally nothing left.
But, eh, Sylar is an ongoing villain now, I suppose some of that is supposed to be expected.
Mohinder is of course still an idiot, who apparently hits the gym in massive quantities for a nerdy scientist. His father must be spinning around in his grave continuously over how stupid his son is.
It's nice to see Claire finally taking a proactive approach towards dealing with super-powered people coming to kill her. Noah being all badass was fun too.
Nathan's head-case status continues to be fun.
Overall I think some of y'all are just bigtime snobs when it comes to Heroes, hatin' on it so much:)
Posted by Lanfear (Member # 7776) on :
It's just that their were plot twists for the shock factor, and not because the story wants to go in that direction.
It was like an advertising that promised way too much but then didn't have any content.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: The annoying thing about Sylar is that we keep seeing these little glimpses every now and then of a good character, but it never really goes anywhere.
I don't they've made him sort of complex in a weird way. He's evil, yes, but he has some shades of grey.
What I don't like is that he used to be SIGH-lahr and now he's SIGH-ler.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Anyway, the 'can't die' thing: Sylar's body is subject to the same forces everyone else is, but as everyone knows, he can heal from it. Well, toss him into an incinerator! And not just, I dunno, a paper incinerator or something, I'm talking crematorium on steroids with some gasoline sprayed in there for good measure. He can't heal if there's literally nothing left.
Last night I started wondering what would happen if you cut Sylar's head off. And kept it away from his body. Would they grow into two Sylars, like a flatworm?
And what's with the brain thing? He left Claire's brain in. The "Claire... that's disgusting" line was hilarious, but haven't all of his victims been found with their brains missing? Where have they gone if he hasn't been snacking on them?
And... is Linderman a ghost, or a hallucination? Did he heal Nathan, or did the transfusion from Adam last year have lasting effects?
So far, we have 4 immortals (that we know of): Peter, Sylar, Claire and Adam. I guess the blood transfusion can't make someone immortal, or both Nathan and Noah would be immortals now as well.
I'm a little bummed that Sylar didn't kill Mr. Muggles while he was in Claire's house. How hard would that have been? He could even have stolen Mr. Muggles' power to make Claire's mom talk like a moron. That's got to be useful, no?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
And what's with the brain thing? He left Claire's brain in. The "Claire... that's disgusting" line was hilarious, but haven't all of his victims been found with their brains missing? Where have they gone if he hasn't been snacking on them?
Syler's ability is to figure out how things work. I don't think the brains of his previous victims were missing. We never really saw exactly what he did with them, but after seeing what he did with Claire, I suspect that he cut their heads open and studied their brains. In most cases, this kills a person. In the case of Claire, it didn't. I'm not sure if this is 100% consistent but I'm willing to go with it because it works for me this way.
The "That's disgusting" line was probably the best in the show so far.
quote:And... is Linderman a ghost, or a hallucination? Did he heal Nathan, or did the transfusion from Adam last year have lasting effects?
This is one of the biggest reasons I will probably watch next week's episode. I haven't previously found Nathan to be such an interesting character, but yesterday he really began to intrigue me. It could be that he does more than just fly. Perhaps his brush with death awakened something?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I could have sworn we saw empty skulls from which brains had been removed in the first two seasons.
Posted by jh (Member # 7727) on :
There was so much stuff going on last night, that only after watching it a couple more times do I actually know what happened. But essentially, my thoughts are that it does set up a lot which needs to be covered and resolved this season. What was very cool was Sylar's line - "Claire...that's disgusting!" I'm sure they threw that in there for all the arguing about whether Sylar just looked at the brain to study it or whether he ate it. I admit it, I was one of the ones who thought he ate the brain.
I think the villains angle is very interesting, with many different shades or gray involved. It does seem that things are not always clear cut, that the villains who escaped are going to be the main villains of the series. I think that it will be a point of who will become a villain, and who will stay true to being a hero. Case in fact, Ando who kills Hiro for the formula. Now that dumb Suresh has developed (not perfectly because he's an idiot of course) a way to give ordinary people extraordinary abilities, it is going to be a battle on how those abilities will be used. Will having those powers turn people into "villains"? It's a very interesting study in human nature I thought. And really, Mama Petrelli's dream was amazing with the villain line up - Adam, Niki, Maury, and no idea who the last guy is. I need to seriously read up on new characters to the show.
Here's the breakdown: Matt-Boring. He needs to go or get a more interesting storyline. Niki-I was very sad at the thoought of thinking she was really dead at the end of last season. Plus, what is up with the producers' aversion to having people die on this show? On the other hand, I am very interesting in finding out what the heck is going on with her. Is she Niki who can't remember anything? Is she Jessica because Jessica never really died? Or is she truly a completely other person? Nathan-He's hot and I'm glad he's not dead. But really, Nathan should know by now to stay away from positions with power. I'd love to see Nathan and Niki become closer - they have good chemistry. I hope they explain the Linderman thing, since right now it really just seems like he's having hallucinations. Claire-Ah, Claire .. I miss your curly brighter hair from season one. Can't have everything I guess. Your storyline is not the most interesting-I'd hate it if you didn't get involved in the action sooner or later. And Claire's mom-we saw the fire in hand thing season 1. Producers, please don't recycle! Also, didn't she accidentally kill Claire in that fire when she was a baby? She doesn't seem to have a great grasp on her own powers - how is she going to teach/protect Claire? Peter-How did Future Peter put him in someone else's body? Curious on this point and also on what the heck's he's up to. It's also his fault Sylar is now invincible. Although since Sylar is going to working with HRG, it'll make him much more likeable. Not that I hate him now. Just that he'll be so much more bearable. Suresh and Maya-Ewwww. Elle-I'm liking her. Even if she did set all those bad guys free. I'm glad she didn't die and that electrical storm was awesome. HRG-Love him, still my fave character. I can't wait to see his role in everything.
Ah, can't wait for next week!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Where did you get three? There's the future Peter with the scar, and the current Peter who's trapped inside Weevil's body. Did I miss one?
Then I'm completely confused. I thought it was future Peter that wasn't really Peter. Didn't Angela call him Jesse?
I was sort of having a conversation while watching, I'll admit.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: And... is Linderman a ghost, or a hallucination?
I just can't bring myself to care. It's not like the interaction will be anywhere near as interesting as Crichton and Harvey, or Baltar and 6...Even Scrubs did an episode with the invisible person that no one but Dr. Cox could see.
Sure, it's hard to not bring back Malcolm McDowell when you have the chance, and he at least has a bit of character.
But now the pattern is a little creepy...Malcolm may not be dead (though he probably is). Nikki, Nathan, Sylar, and Mr. Bennett all died and came back.
DL, Hiro's dad, and Maya's brother, died and stayed dead. Now what do the first people all have in common, that none of the later people have?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ah, okay. I watched that part again. When she said "Jesse" she was asking a question. Whatever, I don't even care anymore.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I liked it, although I have not seen any of Season two and felt a little lost.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Well, somehow future Peter put present Peter in the body of a Jesse, though how I don't know.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
quote: Where did you get three? There's the future Peter with the scar, and the current Peter who's trapped inside Weevil's body. Did I miss one?
Then I'm completely confused. I thought it was future Peter that wasn't really Peter. Didn't Angela call him Jesse?
No, Jesse is the name of the guy played by Francis Capra (Weevil from Veronica Mars).
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I could have sworn we saw empty skulls from which brains had been removed in the first two seasons.
I agree. Not only that, but the police mentioned that the brains were missing.
quote:Originally posted by swbarnes2: But now the pattern is a little creepy...Malcolm may not be dead (though he probably is). Nikki, Nathan, Sylar, and Mr. Bennett all died and came back.
DL, Hiro's dad, and Maya's brother, died and stayed dead. Now what do the first people all have in common, that none of the later people have?
Are you really Steve Barnes? Anyway, you left out Isaac and Eden and Papa Petrelli and the Israeli chick who could do e-mail in her head. And it looked to me like DL was back in some of the previews, and Papa Nakamura was at least back in a video this week, and I think the fact that you're ignoring all the white people who are permanently dead says more about you than anything else.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: This is one of the biggest reasons I will probably watch next week's episode. I haven't previously found Nathan to be such an interesting character, but yesterday he really began to intrigue me. It could be that he does more than just fly. Perhaps his brush with death awakened something?
I really didn't like Nathan. He's been a bit of a jerk from the get-go. Peter's way too emo (even with the haircut), but Nathan has been a cold and amoral wretch. He's starting to take on a little more interest for me now.
quote:Originally posted by jh: Case in fact, Ando who kills Hiro for the formula.
Says who? From what we saw, it might have been Hiro who went bad, and Ando who was trying to stop him. Although if Ando does go bad, it's probably because Hiro's treating him like crud now. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
I know that if I saw my best friend kill me in the future, I wouldn't drive him into becoming an enemy; I'd do whatever I could to make sure our friendship got stronger. Hiro's an imbecile.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Whatever happened to Nathan's wife? I don't remember.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I agree, on both counts. Future Ando may be saving the world from future-Hiro ( as an aside, our first reaction to seeing a Japanese city in that condition was to shout "Gojira!"). And yes, Hiro needs to build his friendship with Ando more- especially since Ando will likely save Hiro from himself.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm really hoping that Linderman turns into a sort of Gaius Baltar's Head-Baltar sort of thing. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Not that nuking NY compares with wiping out the 12 colonies...
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: Whatever happened to Nathan's wife? I don't remember.
She left him between Season 1 and 2.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I'm rooting for Sylar now. He was right. These people don't deserve their power. They are too stupid.
Why couldn't Sylar just break into that closet? Those doors are incredibly weak. My little sister could break into those things.
Are the writers really that lame that they just copy The Fly?
I almost changed the channel when that blatant Sprint advertisement happened.
Why do they insist on telling us how a power works, then changing it later? Super healing used to have something to do with their brain. Now their blood can heal others, so it has nothing to do with their brain anymore. Stopping time used to, you know, stop time. Peter's powers were "empathic" and he had to think about the person to use their power. Now he doesn't even have to remember the person at all.
If it turns out she was telling the truth... Why does everyone need to be a Petrelli?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:If it turns out she was telling the truth... Why does everyone need to be a Petrelli?
I knew there was something bugging me and I just couldn't articulate it, thanks for providing the missing piece.
Mrs. Petrelli could simply be manipulating Sylar however.
I remember clearly the brains being taken. Perhaps all of those abilities were in the lower regions of the brain and Claire's just happens to be on the top? Perhaps Sylar only removes the brain when he is satisfied it's not there.
As soon as Claire asked if Sylar was going to eat her brain I knew he was going to say, "Claire, that's disgusting." I also knew he wasn't going to kill her, but that was pretty obvious. Knowing Sylar I would never ask why he wasn't killing me, I'd just let him leave.
So were those spikes growing on Mohinder's back? Why were they easily pulled off and kinda gooey? Were they scales?
How in the heck could Nikki/Jessica/Trisha have freezing powers?
That was an awful lot of reveals, but with season 2 being so short, the lag was merely catching up with us. I don't expect the future episodes to have such broad scopes. Fortunately they didn't include Micah and Copycat girl, that would have been overload for me. I don't understand why Linderman needs to be there, or if he even IS there. I really hope they don't go with the Linderman and Nathan's new found religion = crazy.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
So is Heroes good, or bad?
Should I really start watching it?
(I'm going to anyway, otherwise Ms.C will kill me)
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I remember clearly the brains being taken. Perhaps all of those abilities were in the lower regions of the brain and Claire's just happens to be on the top? Perhaps Sylar only removes the brain when he is satisfied it's not there.
Okay, but what does he do with them in those cases?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I remember clearly the brains being taken. Perhaps all of those abilities were in the lower regions of the brain and Claire's just happens to be on the top? Perhaps Sylar only removes the brain when he is satisfied it's not there.
Okay, but what does he do with them in those cases?
<shrugs> Takes them to a safe place where he can carefully examine them? Maybe some of the abilities are in the inner regions of the brain and hence he opens them up.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:The "That's disgusting" line was probably the best in the show so far. [Smile]
That was fantastic.
But my personal favorite was "thank you turtle! You saved my life."
Watching Mohinder put the moves on Maya was really uncomfortable. It creeped me out.
I probably should've watched a recap episode. Cause I was pretty confused throughout trying to remember where all the story lines had left off from last year.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: But my personal favorite was "thank you turtle! You saved my life."
Watching Mohinder put the moves on Maya was really uncomfortable. It creeped me out.
Yes, and yes.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My breakdown -
Matt/AfricanIsaac - Potentially very interesting. I've always liked Matt. He's a goofy do gooder who's been kicked down all his life and now has the power to fight back. His part in this opening episode was limited, but he had the funny turtle line, and I want to see where this is going now that we have a new future painter on the scene, and one more person that knows Future Peter is an idiot.
Niki - Surprise surprise, I actually like this iteration of Niki! I was cheering when she was blown up last season, but they seem to have revamped her character nicely. Her new power seems to fit well with her personality, and I like that she's working with Bruce Boxleitner (spelling?) who I'm always a big fan of.
Claire - Huzzah, she's finally fighting back, or at least, she's trying to. I would have much, much rather preferred her going with Noah on the road so Noah could teach her all the agenty stuff. She's right, her power is purely defensive and all she can do is wait for someone to kill her, heal, and then run away. I'm glad she realizes that. Noah continues to be one of my favorite characters by the way.
Elle - She's supposed to be leaving the show soon right? That probably means she'll be dying soon, but, I like the changes being forced on her characters by others. I'd like to see her repent, become a good guy, and start frying some bad guys. It looks like it COULD head in that direction, but I doubt it.
Hiro/Ando - Dude, Hiro, what kind of sci-fi geek are you? Any geek worth his salt knows that A. Appearances can be decieving when viewing the future, and B. Self fulfilling prophecies! Don't give Ando the shaft, you'll just be pushing him away! But I think Ando is a fundamentally good guy, and that even if Hiro pushed him away he wouldn't betray him. There's something else going on in that blurb he saw in the future. I sort of like that he has a nemesis that can counteract his powers, but the girl they actually picked is kind of annoying.
Suresh and Maya - I gave Suresh a lot of the benefit of the doubt before, but he's over the line now. I hope Maya and him come up with a murder suicide pact. Neither of them interests me any more at all. And the whole seduction thing going on there was creepy as all get out.
Nathan - I don't even know what the hell is going on there. It's just weird. I'd be happy to see his character take a back seat. I do have a question though - What exactly healed him? I can't imagine Claire's blood is a permanant thing. So is what's his name real in some way or a mental problem? Something doesn't track there.
Peter - Wow, way to go from being one of my favorites to my absolute least favorite. This time travel stuff is stupud. Every time we found out another thing he screwed up for the future I got a little more pissed at him. But the thing about time travel is - why don't you just go back again and stop yourself! It's infinetely undoable! And it's also a giant mess that totally turned me off.
Sylar - I absolutely dislike that he's invulnerable now. Also, there's no way he twirled a solid gold gun like that. That thing would have been crazy heavy. What I'd kind of like to see? I think Mrs. Petrelli is totally screwing with him, there's no way that she's his real mother. I think she's going to brainwash him into thinking that, and somehow she'll turn him into one of her agents now that Elle is gone. Sylar will have to make way for the new cookie cutter bad guys coming down the pipeline (Magneto, Pyro, Banshee and I guess the Shadow King, not really sure who the fear eater is in X-Men).
All in all? I give it a B- . There was a lot going on, some of it was interesting, some of it was mind numbingly stupid. I'll keep watching to see where it goes, as I'm interested, and I still want to know what happened to Micah and his cousin, but some of my enthusiasm is waning.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Elle is leaving?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Just read an interview in Soap Opera Weekly (don't ask) and Zachary says that Sylar is going to reveal alot more depth to his character this season. He didn't say Sylar becomes good, but that Sylar has some positive attributes that are important to him that we should start seeing soon.
Make of it what you will.
Posted by Slim (Member # 2334) on :
Nathan: Killed by the least likely suspect, and is brought back by an even less likely suspect. Now he's all about being an angel. Creepy, but in a good way.
Future Peter: Here we learn that time travel can't solve all of our problems. Well, it can, but not without creating all new problems. Advice to Future Peter: leave the time travel to Hiro.
Hiro: His destiny--Don't open the safe. But of course, his father knew he would anyway. I thought that was funny. Probably the same formula Mohinder found? Then he travels to the future, sees his friend blast him, and sees the planet blow up. Sure, Hiro should know better, but if you saw (someone who looked like) your friend (possibly) kill you, wouldn't you be a little upset? He's probably conflicted about whither it is better to pull him closer or push him away. I'm just glad he told Ando. If this was Season 2, he would have pretended nothing happened, and not told Ando while holding a grudge. I think this is good.
What's-her-name Fast Girl: Awesome. I wonder who her boss is. Mrs. Petrelli? She is in France.... But Hiro is going to have to learn to completely stop time. He can't do anything if he just slows it down a lot.
Mrs. Petrelli: So, her power is dreams, huh? And are we supposed to forget the whole (suggested) mind-manipulation thing from last season, and accept that you are Sylar's mother?
Sylar: Good stuff. Obviously he had enough power to break down the door, but there is just something about him. He likes creeping people out. He knew Clair wouldn't stay there forever. But he can't resist going straight to the company where everyone is, so he gets caught. Barely.
Clair: Uh-Oh. She can't feel pain anymore? This can't be good. Something Sylar did? On accident or on purpose? Or is it her powers reacting to the pain she has been in? Sylar said she is different than the others. Sylar couldn't kill her even if he wanted to. (note that she could in Season 1-- so something must have changed?)
Present Peter: Now he's stuck in the body of a criminal. What kinds of powers does he have now? His host's? Probably. Nothing like weakening an over-powered hero than by putting him in someone else's body. Luckily, he'll be right with the villains, so he should know right where they are when he gets his powers back.
Villains: "You don't even want to know his power" Dun dun DUN! And then there are supposed to be a dozen of them, so there's still others we don't know.
Matt: ROTFL @ turtle. I thought obvious product-placement was funny, too. Sprint? Are you serious? Painting of planet blowing up should be interesting.
Mohinder: Oops. Falls for the classic optimistic scientist blunder. Using un-tested drugs. So he's Spider-man, then he has scales/spikes. Run Maya!! No, Faster!! Uhm, your clothes kinda... you might want to... uhm... Run!!
Nikki: 1st impression: What the heck? How'd she survive? 2nd impression: Oh, she has freezing powers, now. Maybe she really is a different person...?
Linderman: He was the last person I thought would be coming back. So, apparently he healed Nathan, but Nathan is the only one that can see him. And Linderman still is working to get Nathan to be President, apparently. Odd.
Anyway, this is great! Delivering what they promise this time! Fast-paced action right from the get-go! This promises to be as good as season 1. Time will tell.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Clair: Uh-Oh. She can't feel pain anymore? This can't be good. Something Sylar did? On accident or on purpose? Or is it her powers reacting to the pain she has been in? Sylar said she is different than the others. Sylar couldn't kill her even if he wanted to. (note that she could in Season 1-- so something must have changed?)
Maybe Claire wouldn't have died in Season 1, either. I thought the whole point was just to keep Sylar from getting her powers?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Sylar - I absolutely dislike that he's invulnerable now.
I just want him to abuse his newfound invulnerability to hang around ominously and throw bricks at all the "good guys" whenever they're being stupid, jerky, or criminally oblivious.
Wouldn't that be a great show? The West Wing had people talking fast while briskly walking through hallways. Heroes can have flying bricks.
I see this season as having some potential and there are many ways it can go about capitalizing on this potential (and boy I sure hope it does soon) but I can think of nothing more cathartic. Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Just read an interview in Soap Opera Weekly (don't ask)
ummmm...but I must! Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: Mohinder: Oops. Falls for the classic optimistic scientist blunder. Using un-tested drugs. So he's Spider-man, then he has scales/spikes. Run Maya!! No, Faster!! Uhm, your clothes kinda... you might want to... uhm... Run!!
I knew something like that would happen to Mohinder...it's classic Jekkyl-and-Hyde. Hyde uses himself as a test subject FOR SCIENCE and totally not for selfish reasons, really, and turns into SUPER BAD ALTER-EGO or a monster or something. Blarg. What a moron.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm wondering why Hiro didn't make more fuss over the fact that future-Ando has a power - and is still trying to get the formula from Hiro. Maybe it's some sort of super-secret-agent-type thing, trying to prevent the formula from falling into the public, which doesn't make much sense with the eminent destruction of wherever they were.
Note to self: if a genie ever offers to give you a wish, the time-travel ability is NOT the right answer.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I'll take super-speed. It's always been my first choice. Complete with a friction protecting aura, of course, and without Wally's original "gotta eat a million burgers to keep my energy up" problem.
Posted by Law Maker (Member # 5909) on :
quote: I thought they set up the villains just fine for the first 2 episodes in a 22-episode season. How deeply do you expect we'd get into their character in an hour and a half? So far we know that the company thought they were dangerous enough to lock up and now they're loose. I imagine we'll learn a lot more about them over the next 20 episodes. Or at least, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt right now.
As far as I understand it, "Villains" is just the title of Volume 3. Although the first two seasons consisted of one volume each, this season is divided into three volumes. I think we can expect a faster pace from this story than from those previous.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
From what I've read, this season is divided into two volumes. What are the other two volumes supposed to be?
Edit to add: I just looked, originally Vol. 3 was going to be "Exodus" but the entire storyline was scrapped and replaced with "Villains," which will be the first half of Season 3. The second half of Season 3 will be Vol. 4 "Fugitives."
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I CALLED IT, I EFFING CALLED IT! I CALLED IT! Syler doesn't EAT PEOPLES BRAINS! I CALLED IT! I AM VINDICATED! BRADLEY TRIUMPHANT!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
And omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg
omg omg omg omg omg its sheridan omg omg omg omg its sheridan omg omg omg omg omg omg omg sheridan omg omg omg omg omg omg omg its sheridan omg omg omg omg sheridan omg omg omg Babylon 5!!!!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
And yeah Dr Soran is back Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Sigh 4th post.
I would choose Magic as my power, d&d rules or failing that absolute control over string theory mechanics.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Chillax, man.
As for Claire's brain and his not taking it...perhaps he was able to more quickly and easily study it and divine its inner workings because she was alive and conscious while he did it, something that surely wasn't true of his other victims.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
I also loved the "Claire...that's disgusting!" line.
For me, only one of the reveals wasn't anticipated. I knew that Mohinder would inject himself. I knew that Linderman was a hallucination of some kind, from second time we saw him: because Niki/Jessica/whatever completely ignored his existence. I was completely unsurprised that the turtle wasn't talking to Matt. Even when Hiro was about to open the safe, I figured there'd be something along the lines of "I told you not to open the safe!!"
Edit to add: The only one I can recall NOT predicting was Mrs. Petrelli's revelation regarding Sylar.
[ September 26, 2008, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: BandoCommando ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BandoCommando: I also loved the "Claire...that's disgusting!" line.
For me, only one of the reveals wasn't anticipated. I knew that Mohinder would inject himself. I knew that Linderman was a hallucination of some kind, from second time we saw him: because Niki/Jessica/whatever completely ignored his existence. I was completely unsurprised that the turtle wasn't talking to Matt. Even when Hiro was about to open the safe, I figured there'd be something along the lines of "I told you not to open the safe!!"
Edit to add: The only one I can recall NOT predicting was Mrs. Petrelli's revelation regarding Sylar.
I assume the reveal you didn't anticipate was the identity of the shooter, yes?
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I had a thought-Mrs Petrelli isn't Sylar's dio-mom, but mothered or midwifed or whatever you want to say, Sylar and other muties at some point in their development ( intervened in some way)
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Did we ever get an explanation as to why Peter blowing up still allowed him to live? How all of his molecular dust must have come back together? Maybe that's why Claire and Sylar will "never die." There could be some strange safeguards for every instance.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I don't think he blew up. He was just at the center of the explosion.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote:Just read an interview in Soap Opera Weekly (don't ask)
ummmm...but I must!
I have to read those magazines at work at least once a week. Sometimes I think about the awesomeness of working in a shoe factory in Indonesia and I cry over my lot in life.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Heroes is awesome, so is netflix insta-watch (or whatever t is called)
I've watched 2 episodes every night for a week, now I'm on "0.07%"
Hiro is officially the coolest character on TV, with his pudgy round face and his squealy anime voice (i can't stop hearing "Flying Man!")
I love this show.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Wait until you get into season two to declare your love for it...
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Shutup
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Whistled.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Finished season one Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
T:man, was that a "shut up, don't ruin this new show for me by even suggesting it gets terrible in the second season"" in a playful manner, or just "shut up!"?
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
I think it was a "shut up, your breath stinks, stop polluting the air with your nastiness."
Ooooo....
Fight!!
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
No way was it the first one. I BARELY suggested season 2 was bad, and if he read the thread then he already saw plenty of that.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Awwwh, Hiro got captured.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Thanks, those of us on the West Coast haven't seen it yet.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Your welcome. I live to serve.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Dude, really. Be nice. Edit your post.
Please. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh come on! This is obviously a spoilerish thread? With spoilers gallore! Its read on your own peril! Don't blame me for being on in Quebec! You only have yourselves to blame!
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Oh come on! This is obviously a spoilerish thread? With spoilers gallore! Its read on your own peril! Don't blame me for being on in Quebec! You only have yourselves to blame!
We're not blaming you, you're right, it's to be expected that there are spoilers. We're just asking that you hold off until after everyone has seen it. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
bah forum cannot contain my awesomeness.
[ September 29, 2008, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
And you wonder why nobody wants to be your partner.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
and no wonder that your a ass.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Well, the episode's aired everywhere, so I feel okay saying this:
I love the Haitian.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think I missed some key parts. I missed the first like five minutes, and a couple parts were hard to see because the show is so damned dark and the gym I was in has really bright lights so the glare on the TV on my elliptical was blinding.
What happened at the very end when Ando screwed everything up? I saw Daphne take the case and leave and Hiro couldn't stop her beacuse of the Haitian, then what happened?
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
I still love Sylar and Noah. Easily my favorite characters right now.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think I missed some key parts. I missed the first like five minutes, and a couple parts were hard to see because the show is so damned dark and the gym I was in has really bright lights so the glare on the TV on my elliptical was blinding.
What happened at the very end when Ando screwed everything up? I saw Daphne take the case and leave and Hiro couldn't stop her beacuse of the Haitian, then what happened?
Hiro tried to stop time to catch her, but it didn't work. He wondered why as the Haitian snuck up behind him. Hiro then offered the Haitian popcorn.
I liked this episode. It was better than the openers for sure. But that may be from the clear lack of Mohinder and Maya. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vadon: We're not blaming you, you're right, it's to be expected that there are spoilers. We're just asking that you hold off until after everyone has seen it.
I figured that if you don't want to be spoiled, you shouldn't open this thread until you've seen the new episode.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I second that. I think once 9pm EST rolls around on Monday night, you wait until after 10pm PST if you don't want to be spoiled to enter this thread.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Actually I was just fine, I was watching the episode when I stumbled into the thread. It really doesn't matter to me that much, whether there are spoilers before I even have a chance to see the show. But I figured that if there was someone who did care, and they were just trying to refresh their memory on recent events, it would be nice if they could check this thread right before the show started and not have to worry.
Agree or disagree, I don't mind, because honestly, I don't care about this issue anymore. I'd much rather see what other people thought of the episode. Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Vadon: We're not blaming you, you're right, it's to be expected that there are spoilers. We're just asking that you hold off until after everyone has seen it.
I figured that if you don't want to be spoiled, you shouldn't open this thread until you've seen the new episode.
Agreed, although Blayne could certainly have handled it a lot better. (and so could Elmer, although the comment he originally responded to has since been edited out.)
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I loved the dynamic between both of Claire's moms. And the bio mom "training" Claire was interesting. Traumatizing, but probably good for her in the long run. I don't get why the thining air didn't bother bio mom any, though.
Zachary Quinto easily stole the show last night. Not only did he look great in a suit, but his FBI agent bit was wonderful. I loved the look on Noah's face, like he was annoyed with him for being effective more than for ignoring him.
Favorite part of next week's preview? Sylar reunited with Mr. Muggles. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I can't say I liked Bio-mom all that much. The whole torture of Claire thing didn't make sense and neither did her "honest" answer. Yeah, Syler messed her up a bit but let's face it, she'd wanted to be a hero since last season so revenge was not the real answer. Plus, what happened to her inability to feel pain? That doesn't translate to not being able to breathe? I don't buy it.
Other than that, I liked the episode. Mohinder's absence was certainly refreshing and I think the show should do that more often.
I'm not sure what I think about Syler and Mrs. Patrelli (and the sheer number of bastard Patrelli children out there). I don't see why they keep letting Syler loose and why he would play by anyone else's rules when he is free. I understand that he kills people to steal their powers, but other than that his motivations have been unclear and inconsistent.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Can I just say having Niki..err Trisha find her "creator" doesn't excite me in the least?
Also does it seem like Sylar never uses any of his powers save telekinesis? I suppose in yesterday's situations there wasn't much else to use, but it seems like he gets so many abilities and then promptly forgets about them. Of course this doesn't stop him from coveting more abilities.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I think Sylar's motivations have been clear, and Mama Petrelli is feeding on them.
He wants to be special, to be recognized as being special, and to be important. He was born a "nobody" in his mind, and his gift allowed him to be a "somebody". He got hungry and greedy with this, but I think it's all in the pursuit of boosting his own ego.
Give him a suit, and an important job, and tell him he was born special to a special mother and destined for greater things... and it makes sense that he'd play along, at least for a while.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I'm wondering if Claire's egg-donor is really a 'bad-guy'... Is she just trying to find her weaknesses? Could that lack of oxygen thing be the one thing she can't overcome - if yes does that mean that Sylar can't either? And what did that tube up his nose have in it that Psycho Petrelli (sp?) ripped out before he dissected the history girl?
And what was with the 'one of them, one of us' comment by Noah (and, well, the title of the episode...). Now I just wonder if it's like, some are created and some are natural and is THAT the one of them, one of us reference. (because of zimmerman's 'i created you' comment) Or is it just as simple as some are 'good' and some are 'bad'?
This show, for all it's corniness and predictability at times and horrible acting at others, is my fav. *sigh*
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Can I just say having Niki..err Trisha find her "creator" doesn't excite me in the least?
Honestly, I forgot that this happened when I was making my comments. It's that interesting ot me.
quote: Also does it seem like Sylar never uses any of his powers save telekinesis? I suppose in yesterday's situations there wasn't much else to use, but it seems like he gets so many abilities and then promptly forgets about them. Of course this doesn't stop him from coveting more abilities.
Yes, that has struck me, but it strikes me in so many scifi/fantasy shows that I've stopped caring. Often, the true limits of a person's power in a TV show or book are limited by the creativity of the writer, or by the plot, or by what looks good in special effects shots.
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I think Sylar's motivations have been clear, and Mama Petrelli is feeding on them.
He wants to be special, to be recognized as being special, and to be important. He was born a "nobody" in his mind, and his gift allowed him to be a "somebody". He got hungry and greedy with this, but I think it's all in the pursuit of boosting his own ego.
Give him a suit, and an important job, and tell him he was born special to a special mother and destined for greater things... and it makes sense that he'd play along, at least for a while.
Hmmmmm....I guess that kind of makes sense. It's just that sometimes "special" to him means being the only one (destroying all the rest with powers as in the future episode in season 1 when he was president) and sometimes it just means being as powerful as possible. Then again, maybe without the guidance of Mrs. Patrelli in that alternate future, and with the ability of illusion, he changed his mind about what special meant and went for unique. I might have to think about this a bit....
(On a side note: This is one reason why I enjoy books so much. Often, unusual motivations become clearer when you have a peak into a character's head.)
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
The web comic always showed that the company Bennet worked for always sent out teams of two to hunt for gifted people. These teams always consisted of a normal and a gifted.
Bennet and the Haitian were one of the most sucessful teams the Company ever had. Of course Benette had the advantage of the Haitian removing the powers of the guys he was hunting.
msquared
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:And what was with the 'one of them, one of us' comment by Noah
The interesting part of that quote was that Mrs. Petrelli said it, not Noah. Does no one know that Mama Petrelli has powers? I don't think she was getting into philosophical mincing of words over who is bad and good (neither Noah nor the Hatiain are bad by most estimations I can come up with, but they aren't wholly good either), or created versus fake, because Mohinder just created the formula last week. I don't think the formula that Hiro and Ando are chasing is the same formula. Though maybe it is.
Next week we're supposed to get a glimpse into a future where everyone has access to a formula that gives powers and we all assume it's Mohinder's formula, but I guess it could be this supersecret formula that was split in two. Part of me thinks that the formula that Hiro is after is actually Mohinder's formula, but that someone went into the future to get it and brought it back, so they're essentially the same. Either than or it's yet ANOTHER doomsday virus or some such? I can't believe they'd do that again. I think they are both the same.
But the whole "one of them one of us" thing makes more sense as a Hero and a human because Noah has no powers that we know of. So, I think Mrs. Petrelli is a closet hero, and that her husband had powers too.
Was anyone else a little surprised that three of the four supervillains from Level 5 were killed or neutralized one episode after their release? Pyro was captured, Magneto had he HEART ripped out, and Banshee was killed by Sylar (which is apparently TOTALLY okay to everyone back at Primatech). The only one left is the guy I'm calling Fear Monger (since he feeds on fear). I guess he is supposed to be the new villain?
I wonder what else Future Peter will manage to screw up when he takes Present Peter into the future.
I really did like Sylar in this episode. Not just because he was doing bad and good things at the same time. Just in general they gave his character a little depth, and really allowed Quinto's acting out of the box, which was great. I'm glad they touched back on Micah, even if that is the last time we see him (which part of me thinks it will be, for awhile, especially since his cousin wasn't in the guest scene). I'm more interested in Niki's clone than I was in Niki, who I was pleased as punch to find is actually dead.
Claire has become the new "I don't care" at the moment. Her little drama is wholly uninteresting to me. I think in many ways her role in the show is rapidly diminishing, and if she doesn't find a way to become relevent again, I think her face time should be dramatically scaled back.
The Hiro/Ando drama strikes me as a little goofy. I'm a little surprised to be honest that Hiro would take Ando with him into so many dangerous situations. I'd never bring my best friend with me into some of the messes he gets into. And I'm a little surprised that both of them could so easily be manipulated by events. I'll be really sad if they actually end up being enemies.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Doesn't Psycho Petrelli have pre-cog dreams? (and wasn't that the first power that peter exhibited, that dream with simone's dad in it???)
Ah - I guess the no powers/powers combo makes sense...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I don't think he actually did kill the Banshee guy - he brought him back to prison, I thought. The whole "maybe you wer right, maybe I am more than a killer" thing.
Did I mis-see that scene?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
He killed the banshee guy; the blue fire guy got put back in prison. Fear punch guy escaped.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I think so. I remember him telling Noah, "Maybe you were right, maybe I am nothing more than a killer." And then Noah tried to stop him by saying that Sylar wasn't just a killer.
I don't think they ended up bringing him back. They brought Pyro back, but...
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I can't say I liked Bio-mom all that much. The whole torture of Claire thing didn't make sense and neither did her "honest" answer. Yeah, Syler messed her up a bit but let's face it, she'd wanted to be a hero since last season so revenge was not the real answer. Plus, what happened to her inability to feel pain? That doesn't translate to not being able to breathe? I don't buy it.
It was psychological, which is why she brought up waterboarding. There was no PHYSICAL reason Claire couldn't breathe.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not sure if that was true. The fact that the box they were in was air tight and the fire was eating up all the oxygen was leading to suffocation (not sure why the mom wasn't hurt by it).
I think she really was suffocating, but she was doing it ti prove a point, that just because she can't die or feal external pain doesn't mean that there aren't still methods that could be used to seriously impart damage on her, even if it didn't have lasting physical effects.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Ah.. okay, Pyro got put in prison, not Banshee. Got it.
I still don't get why the Banshee guy was so tough. I mean, wasn't he the "you don't even want to know what his power is" guy? I was expecting Apocalypse, or something.
On a completely unrelated note, Claire is missing her calling as the ultimate organ donor... just cut one out, and grow another.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I still don't get why the Banshee guy was so tough. I mean, wasn't he the "you don't even want to know what his power is" guy? I was expecting Apocalypse, or something.
I was thinking that too.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I don't think Banshee was the one they said that about. I don't think we have seen that villain yet.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I hope not. The four of them were surprisingly easily neutralized. Fear Monger was pretty tough, though a lot of the already established Heroes would probably be able to easily defeat him. I'm expecting something considerably worse though.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:I don't get why the thining air didn't bother bio mom any, though.
Yeah, it should have put her fire out, even if they could both still breathe. (and that diffusion flame would generate a lot of CO, too)
The waterboarding argument would have made sense if bio-mom had had difficulty breathing also. The oxygen was being depleted. Notice, Noah said he was looking for Sylar's weakness. Clair may just have found it.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The only way that scene makes sense is if the air wasn't actually thinning. Claire is just stupid and when her mother told her it was, she reacted that way.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well, arguably kidnapping him and dropping him in the middle of the ocean with iron boots would do it too. He'd drown and then not revive unless someone got him out.
They could dismember him and then put all the body parts in separate boxes and take them to the four corners of the earth.
I don't think suffocating him would be very easy. It would take a pretty elaborate trap, and his ability to escapse I'd imagine would be pretty enhanced by his offensive abilities, which Claire lacks.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Or an active volcano, for that matter.
Of course, if you were feeling particularly sadistic you could just bury one of them alive, where'd they could easily spend hundreds of years trapped under ground before he managed to get free.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: The only way that scene makes sense is if the air wasn't actually thinning. Claire is just stupid and when her mother told her it was, she reacted that way.
That's how I interpreted it.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:I don't think suffocating him would be very easy. It would take a pretty elaborate trap, and his ability to escapse I'd imagine would be pretty enhanced by his offensive abilities, which Claire lacks.
Suffocating maybe, but asphyxiation is virtually undetectable to the victim, and could easily be achieved in any industrial environment where nitrogen or argon is available. All you need is an innocuous looking confined space. He walks in, and collapses instantly.
quote:Of course, if you were feeling particularly sadistic you could just bury one of them alive, where'd they could easily spend hundreds of years trapped under ground before he managed to get free.
Like Adam? Can't wait to see how that one plays out.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by romanylass:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: The only way that scene makes sense is if the air wasn't actually thinning. Claire is just stupid and when her mother told her it was, she reacted that way.
That's how I interpreted it.
That's pretty thin. Waterboarding and fake suffocation in the manner in which they were doing it aren't nearly the same thing. That scene was kind of goofy, but I don't think we were meant to overanalyze it, it was just a medium to get to Claire's truth, though frankly I think they could have picked a better way of doing it.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I am so glad heroes is back. i love this show.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:I don't get why the thining air didn't bother bio mom any, though.
Yeah, it should have put her fire out, even if they could both still breathe. (and that diffusion flame would generate a lot of CO, too)
The waterboarding argument would have made sense if bio-mom had had difficulty breathing also. The oxygen was being depleted. Notice, Noah said he was looking for Sylar's weakness. Clair may just have found it.
I think she *was* havign difficulty breathing but being more experienced was more able to hide her discomfort. I think if you KNOW whats about to happen its alot easier to prepare.
And for all you know she could be immune, like Red Dragons they can swim in LAVA.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
She makes fire, so she doesn't require breathing?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Maybe part of her power involves converting carbon dioxide back into oxygen.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
The Banshee was the "You don't even wanna know" guy. If you look at his laptop when he's telling that to clair, it has his picture, and his power is listed as "Sound Manipulation". I can only assume that he wasn't using it to it's fullest potential and that he has some rather nasty things he can do with it.
I too noticed that Noah referred to Mrs. Petrelli as "one of us" meaning non-gifted. It would indeed appear as though nobody knows about her powers.
Also, Sylar didn't get off free from killing Banshee. I'm fairly certain those were prison clothes Mrs. P was handing him in the last scene. He's willing to play along cause he know "mommy" will let him out again later.
And yes, I can't believe how incredibly uncreative all of these character's are with using their powers. In the first episode... why was Peter physically running from the mob? He can stop time, go invisible, fly, or walk through walls. Probably more that I can't remember... And why would Clair bother to shoot him? She knows that he can regenerate!!! What the hell is with these people?!?!
The Bio-mom torture scene had to have been in purely psychological
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
It seems to be a bit of a convention that heroes normally do not suffer the side effects of their powers. e.g. Hiro doesn't get frozen in time if he himself freezes time, Nathan can fly but doesn't seem to suffer from the difficulty of breathing at such speeds, Pyro probably doesn't get hurt if the flames get pushed back.
Its possible that they simply stretched this convention to include that the mother cannot suffer from oxygen deprivation when it is a side-effect of her own fire. Not entirely logical science-wise, but its not too unheard of story-logic(?) wise.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Peter got zapped by Elle dozens of times and clearly felt it, even though he must have absorbed her power by then.
I think it's one of those things that works when the writers want it to.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Indeed.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
...Sylar doesnt use any powers that often because using too many powers at once could trigger a loss of control, he has Teds powers so he could go nuclear. Even though he is a killer he doesn't like to kill them without a justified (to him) reason.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Peter got zapped by Elle dozens of times and clearly felt it, even though he must have absorbed her power by then.
But his powers were suppressed by drugs at the time, right?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I think when he wasn't taking the drugs it still hurt him.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Peter got zapped by Elle dozens of times and clearly felt it, even though he must have absorbed her power by then.
I think it's one of those things that works when the writers want it to.
But Peter was not using the power at the time- so it could be you can't hurt yourself with your own power, but someone with a duplicate power could use it against you.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
And yet they're all stupid at the same time.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Thats not a plot hole. Its merely continuity Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Peter got zapped by Elle dozens of times and clearly felt it, even though he must have absorbed her power by then.
I think it's one of those things that works when the writers want it to.
But Peter was not using the power at the time- so it could be you can't hurt yourself with your own power, but someone with a duplicate power could use it against you.
Elle zapped herself when Noah put her feet in a bucket of water.
edited for odd typo
[ October 02, 2008, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: ricree101 ]
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I came into Heroes late in the game, but have watched all the episodes on DVD. Right from the beginning I figured character stupidity would have to be a key ingredient of the show, particularly for characters like Hiro and Peter. These guys have such powerful abilities that - if they weren't stupid - no one would be able to stand against them. The writers have gone out of their way to show that these characters with the most powerful abilities are the ones who are either least able to control them (Hiro) or most insecure and unintelligent about how to use them (Peter).
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Maybe part of her power involves converting carbon dioxide back into oxygen.
Ooh, ooh, like the fire flowers in Mario! (I just made that up...I don't know.)
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeorge: These guys have such powerful abilities that - if they weren't stupid - no one would be able to stand against them.
As some sci-fi editor pointed out to Frank Herbert, you can make a story about the hero growing into his super-human powers, but once he's at the top of his game, it's very hard to make a story. Maybe really really good writers could make it work, but such should not be expected from writers who weren't even imaginative enough to not rip off X-men villians.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by swbarnes2:
quote:Originally posted by Jeorge: These guys have such powerful abilities that - if they weren't stupid - no one would be able to stand against them.
As some sci-fi editor pointed out to Frank Herbert, you can make a story about the hero growing into his super-human powers, but once he's at the top of his game, it's very hard to make a story. Maybe really really good writers could make it work, but such should not be expected from writers who weren't even imaginative enough to not rip off X-men villians.
Now thats a bit harsh, I consider it as paying "homage" rather then ripping off.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I just copied every word out of Ender's Game, except changed the names of the characters and the book. Is it an homage or a rip off? (Rather extreme example, but at what point is it OK and at what point not?)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think it would be hard to do any story about super powered humans with it looking like an X-Men rip off.
But let's be clear, while the background (people with powers and even some of those powers) is the same, the plot is wildly different. The closest thing that Heroes has to Professor X, powers wise, is Matt Parkman, which right away should tell you that it's pretty significantly different. It might serve as a prequel, since we haven't gotten into the government side of things yet, but it's not a direct rip off.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
This is where I chime in my deep and abiding love for Matt Parkman.
Carry on.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Me too....
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: The only way that scene makes sense is if the air wasn't actually thinning. Claire is just stupid and when her mother told her it was, she reacted that way.
No, in the Heroes world, the laws of physics are different. For example, if you light a fire in a closed area, it will use up oxygen except for yourself. And the moment you put the fire out, all the oxygen that was used up immediately returns.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well, If that's the show we are watching then I am very disappointed.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I hate how Hiro's power was reduced to merely slowing dow time. He's still my favorite character.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Ok I finished season two and the first 2 episodes of sason three.
How can netflix have episodes of a season still being aired?
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
My assumption was that Claire started hyperventilating/panicking once her mother started talking about feeling confined and not being able to breathe.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
That's what I said.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm liking this week so far. I was just wondering last week what happened to Molly, and now I know. And I thought that was Daphne in Matt's arms, but I didn't see how it could be.
What I don't get is, aren't all of the things that happened in the future undoable? I mean, future Peter is "dead" but none of that should matter if present Peter changes the face of the future, none of that would have happened. I mean, whatever happened to that Irish girl who was lost in that future that stopped existing? I guess the only way to save her would be to go back to when Peter was in Ireland and stop him from taking her. I don't like that Peter has Sylar's ability. I have a feeling that the side effects are going to play a serious role later on, and I'm going to hate it. I guess Peter needs to be in the future to see what happens and how to fix it, but mostly I just want him back in the past and I want them to stop screwing with time. How crazy and sad was it when Sylar went nuclear? And how'd he get the kid?
Crazy, crazy alt future.
Edit to add: Okay, having seen him attack Nathan, I KNOW I don't like that he has Sylar's ability. If this becomes a new plot point, I'm going to be annoyed. He can read minds, shouldn't that have been enough?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
All right, if you haven't seen the show and don't want to be spoiled, don't read!
Bleh! Bleh! Bleh!
I was liking this season all right until today's episode, but tonight's episode just didn't work at all for me.
First of all, do we really need 2 Sylers? Wasn't one enough?
The triplets don't make any sense. Didn't Nicki already have a twin sister named Jessie? Where does she fit into all of this?
When Daphne fell into Matt's arms with a charred back I nearly gagged. I mean, come on! Puh-lease!
I can't honestly say I understood the future threat. What were the two sides fighting for?
I guess the biggest thing is the first one, though -- Peter getting Syler's powers and his thirst. I absolutely hate that development and don't see anything good coming from it. I was already disliking Peter's character.
Hiro and Ando digging up Adam at the end were about the only good thing in the show.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
I actually did like Gabriel saying "No scar, so you're from the past so you must still think I'm a boogie-man."
Makes me wonder just how he learned to control "the hunger" and why didn't he tell Peter how he's able to do that also?
And when Hiro and Ando dug up that casket, I did go "Ooooo! If that's Adam he's gonna be PISSED!"
And it was, and he was. . . . . I am looking forward to seeing how that plays out.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I am thoroughly enjoying Heroes now, but for all the wrong reasons.
It has become a nightmarish synthesis of 1) soap opera, 2) convoluted superhero comic, and 3) easily 2/3rds of the entries on tvtropes.org — which means that instead of abandoning the series like they did in second season, my friends are actually watching it pretty much because the thing is satisfying to pick on. It's like the so-bad-it's-good effect; it's the show you watch because you love to hate on it, and it keeps taunting you with flashes of good writing or exciting plot twists.
I guess it can be contrasted with season two which was so-bad-it's-actually-really-just-bad. Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I enjoyed last night's episode. I still don't get what future-Claire's so mad about, but I loved her line about having already killed one uncle tonight, give her a moment to be human.
Of course, I loved Gabriel and Noah. I love that fatherhood made him a better person - and a worse one. The look on Daphnae's face when Noah got hit was just what it should have been. I could almost see her imagining Molly or her baby in his place.
Noah raises the best question, though. The kid looked to be around 4 to me. They're only 4 years in the future. Sylar's never shown an inclination towards rape before, so either someone is willingly going to sleep with him or, more likely, the Company will give him a baby for some reason. Where this kid is going to come from and why anyone would trust Sylar with him is absolutely beyond me.
Claire made comment about Gabriel taking everything from her. Maybe it's her baby and Mama Patrelli made arrangements?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Magson: Makes me wonder just how he learned to control "the hunger" and why didn't he tell Peter how he's able to do that also?
Uh, you can't tell another person how to control a hunger. You have to work it out yourself. Gabriel said that it's a struggle every day. That's how he handles it, if you'll excuse the expression: one day at a time.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.
That's a leap. Isn't it more likely that he grew to like Noah and named a kid after him?
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: Noah raises the best question, though. The kid looked to be around 4 to me. They're only 4 years in the future. Sylar's never shown an inclination towards rape before, so either someone is willingly going to sleep with him or, more likely, the Company will give him a baby for some reason. Where this kid is going to come from and why anyone would trust Sylar with him is absolutely beyond me.
I noticed that the child looked too old to be his 4 years in the future. Even if Syler gets with a woman right now, the child should only be 3. But a couple of things could be true. He could have adopted the kid. Or else they just didn't cast a younger child. There does seem to be a tendency to cast children older than the character age to play a part because the older you get, the better the actor will be at, say, playing dead. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.
That's a leap. Isn't it more likely that he grew to like Noah and named a kid after him?
On Heroes? I'm going with the baby HRG theory.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It's not a TOTALLY crazy theory, but I still think it is more likely that he had a baby and named it Noah, and that Noah was killed in the last four years.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
I hadn't thought of that -- I'd assumed he had named his son after Noah. Yeah, it's an unlikely scenario, but Heroes does like its plot twists, and I actually wouldn't be shocked if that were Noah Bennet. The hair color looked about right.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The problem for me is that I can't possibly imagine that Gabriel could become so attached to Noah that in four years he'd go nuclear because he was killed. There was more to it than that.
He was FURIOUS in a way I don't think any character on the show has been angry so far, and we've seen some pretty emotional deaths. It was representative of a parent's child being murdered before his eyes, and because he was unable to protect him.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
I still watch this show, but only because I love to hate it. It was good for the first few episodes, but it went downhill fairly quickly, unfortunately.
Anyway, Peter is still using his power of Stupidity. Dude can slow time to a crawl. There's no danger. Daphne becomes normal speed then and she wasn't the one with the gun. Everyone else is just neutralized completely.
What happened to Claire to make her, not just willing to kill her uncle, but to make her a SADIST?
When Daphne showed up at Parkman's place, my wife said "What a jerk!" She thought it was lame to show up, give them false hope, and then be all "I'm dead, just wanted to bring you the body" and collapse.
Not to mention how did Daphne ever get the formula from Hiro in the first place? How'd she know he was going to open the safe right then?
Hiro, having one of the most powerful powers, continues to not use it when he should. When he slows time, Daphne loses her power. He should be able to just fight her, but instead he just talks to her and she does whatever.
And of course no one even considers that in the future, Ando might not turn evil and kill Hiro, but Hiro might turn evil and Ando has to stop him.
But yeah, what does any of it matter when there's time travel, *AND* it's been established that traveling to the past to change stuff does not result in a rift or anything. New York didn't blow up. History changed. No problems. So why does Future Peter wait four years to go back? Why shoot his brother? Why not go back four years and 5 minutes and just talk to him? Why not prevent Clair's attack by Sylar, instead of moping?
Tracy isn't really any more interesting than Niki was.
I feel bad they not only killed the Greatest American Hero, but they show it in flashback every week!
The previous generation of supers sure were dumb. Kaito never tells his son about the formula, just leaves him in ignorance forever until he dies and then says "don't open the safe ever." Well if that was true, why not just destroy whatever's in there?
Okay, that's enough. Blood pressure rising...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: He was FURIOUS in a way I don't think any character on the show has been angry so far, and we've seen some pretty emotional deaths. It was representative of a parent's child being murdered before his eyes, and because he was unable to protect him.
It doesn't take that long to be that way even for an adopted child. Even a year would be enough.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Is anyone else having trouble with Claire's anger issues? It just seems to blown out of proportion.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
This show does not make much sense.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.
That's a leap. Isn't it more likely that he grew to like Noah and named a kid after him?
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: Noah raises the best question, though. The kid looked to be around 4 to me. They're only 4 years in the future. Sylar's never shown an inclination towards rape before, so either someone is willingly going to sleep with him or, more likely, the Company will give him a baby for some reason. Where this kid is going to come from and why anyone would trust Sylar with him is absolutely beyond me.
I noticed that the child looked too old to be his 4 years in the future. Even if Syler gets with a woman right now, the child should only be 3. But a couple of things could be true. He could have adopted the kid. Or else they just didn't cast a younger child. There does seem to be a tendency to cast children older than the character age to play a part because the older you get, the better the actor will be at, say, playing dead.
Maybe Sylar had a previously unmentioned one night stand.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I think Heroes was written with Mel Brooks in mind - "Evil will always triumph, because Good is Dumb."
I have the same problem with Peter as I do with Neo after the first Matrix movie.
This is a guy who could be Godlike. He can go anywhere, anytime, for as long as he likes, absorb anyone's powers, and even BE INVISIBLE while he does it.
Go back to your parents' generation - eavesdrop on their conversations, absorb their powers, learn their plans, etc. Then come back to the near present and... observe, watch everything, etc.
He'd know everything that's going on, and be instantaneously aware of everything with reference to the rest of the world. And if he changed something he didn't like, he could always go back and change it again.
Even with the plot they've chosen...
Afraid of bullets? Go invisible, teleport behind Clair, hold her still with telekinesis, whatever...
Need Sylar's power? The only reason is because you're too stupid to live and can't figure your way out of a paper bag. What's the hunger for... more power? He can get it without cutting people's heads open. Silly.
The fight in the Bennett house? Stop time, telekinesis freeze Daphne, touch Sylar and Noah, and teleport out. Easy peasy.
They say that youth is wasted on the young... I say that powers are wasted on the dumb.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
The idea that we use only 10% of our brain is wrong. The powers are not making use of the "extra" brain power, it is taking from the thinking part.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: The idea that we use only 10% of our brain is wrong. The powers are not making use of the "extra" brain power, it is taking from the thinking part.
Finally! It all makes sense now! Well, the stupid decisions do, but not all the other holes.
Why are they all making such a huge deal out of the formula? It's obviously not that hard to figure out since so many stupid people have figured it out.
All the future episodes are a complete waste of time. I'm guessing a new hero will be revealed that has the power to make everyone in the world complete morons.
Maybe I missed it, or maybe this show is worse than I thought, but why does Peter need Sylar's power? Apparently the hunger Sylar is always talking about has nothing to do with wanting more powers. It just has to do with cutting skulls open.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:It's obviously not that hard to figure out since so many stupid people have figured it out.
As far as I can tell, only one person has figured it out. Mohinder's formula doesn't work, it creates weird monster people.
My question is, is there some qualitative difference between created heroes and real ones? And if so, who is real and who is fake?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Fine. It still can't be that hard to get to the good formula from Mohinder's.
I guess the only real heroes are Petrellis. There are still plenty of them.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I actually liked this episode quite a bit. I'm not sure I would defend it as a "good" episode but it showed me a lot of things that made me happy. I've always liked Sylar, so seeing him trying to be good was cool. They may have went a little overboard with it, but to be honest, Dexter (probably the best TV serial killer we're likely to see) acts exactly the same way to help him blend in with society.
I also have a thing for Turtles (I was really disappointed when it wasn't the turtle talking in episode 2) so seeing it remain important was extremely satisfying for me. I suppose I can't expect that to have really made anyone else's day though.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I kinda wish they hadn't put David Anders' name in the opening credits - seeing the Adam Monroe reveal would have been a bit cooler without knowing it was coming.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I kinda wish they hadn't put David Anders' name in the opening credits - seeing the Adam Monroe reveal would have been a bit cooler without knowing it was coming.
Luckily, I don't pay attention to the opening credits and generally speaking, don't know the actors names anyway. Posted by Slim (Member # 2334) on :
(commenting on last two episodes)
Good stuff. I must be watching a different show than everyone else.
Mrs. Petrelli: I still don't believe she's really Sylar's mom, but if so it would explain why in Season 1 they were given orders to keep him alive. And then I liked what she said, "Someone is orchestrating everything behind the scenes." I wonder who that could be. <Stares intently at Mrs. Petrelli.>
Hiro: Yay, Hiro and Ando become friends again. But they fall into Mrs. Petrelli's trap, and they think they have to get Adam back. This should be interesting.
Sylar: Scary how Mrs. Petrelli is treating him. Letting him feed his hunger. Putting him back in prison is only a slap on the wrist. I don't think she knows Peter escaped-- I bet she wanted Sylar to kill him. She always wanted him dead.
Future Sylar: I'm guessing Noah did become young, as that would explain why he's in that house. But in either case, he became attached to Noah in some way that he wouldn't let this kid get hurt. In fact, its what keeps him going.
Present Peter: I wonder if he will absorb all Future Peter's powers? Actually it seems (to me) that in order for him to absorb a power, the other person has to use their power. And now he has the hunger-- and know we know that it is a hunger to know how more things work. If he can figure out how to not explode, I have confidence he can control this side-effect.
Future Peter: Says Present Peter needs to save the world, since he keeps stepping on too many butterflies. And then he tells himself to visit Sylar. Oops.
Future Clair: I see what she meant when she said that the pain is what made her feel human.
Clair:
quote:Maybe Claire wouldn't have died in Season 1, either. I thought the whole point was just to keep Sylar from getting her powers?
That could be right. But Sylar didn't mind trying to kill her then, and now he says she's different and he doesn't even want to kill her. So at least something must have changed, even if it is just Sylar.
Ms. Pyro: She must have had training from Doctor Invisible. Do you really need to turn Claire evil to make her into a good fighter? The whole air thing? I think Clair just got scared when she was reminded of Sylar.
Villains: Wiped out pretty easy. But then they said there were supposed to be a dozen of them, so there should still others we don't know. Maybe not, and they are going the "villain in all of us" track.
Daphne: Huh, so she marries Matt, and they take care of Molly. And in the present, she steals both halves of the formula, and so is possibly responsible for everyone getting powers?
Matt: So I guess he just watched this whole episode?
Mohinder: With Mohinder turning into Prof. Lizard-Man, and Matt in Africa, who's taking care of Molly? ... Oh, must be Maya.
Trisha: 3rd impression: Yup, different person. And now there could be a dozen of them!! No wonder Nikki had Multiple Personality Disorder. 4th impression: Oh, they are triplets separated at birth. Wasn't Jessica Nikki's twin? Or was that just a false memory? But they were all given their super-powers by the company. So not only was the torn formula had by the company before, but it was used before.
Linderman: Yup, I was right. Still going for Nathan's presidency from beyond the grave. Mrs. Petrelli was all about his presidency before. Does she know about Linderman? Is she behind this, too?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I kinda wish they hadn't put David Anders' name in the opening credits - seeing the Adam Monroe reveal would have been a bit cooler without knowing it was coming.
I felt exactly the same way.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Slim: (commenting on last two episodes)
Good stuff. I must be watching a different show than everyone else.
No, I'm loving it, too. Except for Mohinder and Maya. He's so bone stupid that there's just nothing about him that appeals to me in the least. And what happened to her accent? All of a sudden, she's speaking completely unaccented English? Maybe it's another power, or maybe they (oops) just forgot.
quote:Originally posted by Slim: Mohinder: With Mohinder turning into Prof. Lizard-Man,
Bug man, I think. Note the sticky-icky on his fingers.
quote:Originally posted by Slim: Trisha: 3rd impression: Yup, different person. And now there could be a dozen of them!! No wonder Nikki had Multiple Personality Disorder. 4th impression: Oh, they are triplets separated at birth. Wasn't Jessica Nikki's twin? Or was that just a false memory?
No, that's just called writers who suck at continuity.
quote:Originally posted by Slim: Linderman: Yup, I was right. Still going for Nathan's presidency from beyond the grave. Mrs. Petrelli was all about his presidency before. Does she know about Linderman? Is she behind this, too?
Well, the preview showed Papa Petrelli back. And in one of the comics, they showed that he and Linderman were war buddies. Except that Papa was a real jerk to Linderman when he found out that Linderman had powers. Even after Linderman saved his life.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The opening credits ruined the Adam reveal for me too. I don't think I would normally remember his name, but I know someone named David Anders.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I love this season so far, so fast paced in comparison.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: AvidReader, that was Noah. Something's going to happen to age-revert him, and Gabriel is going to adopt him. Maybe Claire had wanted to, but Gabriel won.
My friend had a theory on this. He thinks a Sylar gained the ability to time travel (possibly from Hiro), and went back to the past to steal baby Noah. Growing up with a superhero as a dad could easily abolish Noah's distaste for them. Then again, Sylar didn't seem too keen on letting Noah see him paint the future, but perhaps it was only that power that he wanted to hide.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Thanks for the link, Sam. I think I'm starting to understand some of the frustration. Personally, I'm over the Season 1 tension. The Season 1 characters were neophytes groping in the dark for a way into the light. They saved New York; they should emerge into a better understanding of themselves and each other.
So far I like Season 3 because the characters are trying. Sure Sylar and Peter can't keep track of which of their powers do what and would be best suited to the situation. They fall back on favorite powers. I do that with my D&D characters, and I'm not in personal peril. As long as they make some progress, I'll be happy.
And time travel is my favorite sci fi trope, so I don't mind that they're still doing it. As long as it's done well, it really never gets old for me.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I just assumed the kid was named after Noah for some reason. Is that not right?
My theory is that Future Peter knew that Present Peter would eventually get Sylar's power and become a villain. So he chose the circumstances under which Peter would absorb it. Because Peter absorbed the power from a reformed Gabriel, he knows that the power can be controlled. Also, he knows that Sylar can change into Gabriel. I believe that now Peter and Sylar will join forces to figure out how to control their ability.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
My hubby and I have been making "The Fly" jokes about Mohinder ever since he started picking the scales off his back. These writers really have no originality do they? Who cares though, the show is interesting and it turned Mohinder into something other than a big yawn.
I agree that baby-Noah is a time-regressed HRG-Noah. Now that they've planted the seed and shown us Baby-Noah, I think we're going to see HRG-Noah time-regressed later in the season.
I don't like what they've done to Peter. I like him as a pure good guy. Not everyone can or should be conflicted. It needs to be a sliding scale.
New Nikki can go. I don't like her. The Triplet thing is just too soap opera.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Maybe... Sylar will kill Peter (in, of course, an epic battle of skillz) and we'll be rid of his angst-ridden stupidity. Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
"The Triplet thing is just too soap opera."
This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.
yes i'm not alone
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:This entire show is getting to be too soap opera. It's like watching a train wreck... you just can't look away.
yes i'm not alone
Now that's somebody has come out and said it I can voice my agreement.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Last season there was amnesia. This season they're bringing everyone back from the dead. Yeah, it's definitely a soap opera.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Mohinder is totally becoming a cockroach. Remember the very first episode, where he waxes rhapsodic about cockroaches?
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Fascinating theory. I just looked up cockroaches in the Heroes wiki, and it totally fits.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ooh. That totally fits. The hissing sound that future Mohinder was making is a lot like the hissing sound that some cockroaches make.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Oh great. Now he'll never die.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
So instead of Jeff Goldblum he's Gregor Samsa.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Okay, so obviously spoilers....
*lip quiver*
Ando's gonna be okay, right?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I was laughing during that whole scene. This show is such a train wreck.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
If Ando's really dead, then I'm totally done with this show.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
If Hiro did stab Ando, that explains Future-Ando's comment about Hiro having lost his way. My other thought is that somewhere in there, Hiro stopped time, picked up some fake blood, and rigged it to look like he'd stabbed Ando. Or maybe he just figures he can get Ando to the hospital before anything bad happens to him.
I liked the reveal that it was Papa Parkman behind the Linderman visions. Nathan and Tracy confronting Angella made me especially happy. I like that her plans are starting to unravel, but I hope someone finds her soon.
There was one thing I wish they'd done different. When Noah was talking to Vortex Man, they had a shot where they pulled back to Sylar watching from the car. I wish they'd had the sound of talking carry just fine to remind everyone that Sylar has super hearing. But I was even happy with Claire's search for empowerment this week.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Wow, this show is just going downhill fast.
I knew from the moment the voiceover "next on Heroes" guy called Noah Bennet "HRG" that I wasn't going to have a pleasant night.
Waiting for a "Heroes Digest" like a "Soap Opera Digest" to come out, sitting there tauntingly in the supermarket checkout aisle.
Some of the patently absurd pieces: - The obvious way in which Adam Monroe escaped, and then the easy way in which he was knocked out and captured. - Hiro killing Ando. Terribly done. I'm not sure what's worse - that he actually stabbed him, or that they're going to wipe that away with a "he time traveled and made it look like he did" - Maya being stupid, but then thankfully removing us from having to deal with her anymore. It's like the writers said "how do we get rid of a character the internet doesn't seem to like?" - Another silly "you don't want to know what his power is". That applied far more to vortex man than to puppet man. I mean, honestly? A guy that can make you do whatever he wants vs. a guy who can make anything he wants disappear into an abyss.... and the puppet guy you don't want to know? - Mrs. Petrelli's... "That's classified... but let me just tell you guys anyway, you seem like such trustworthy kids..." - Glad they finally revealed it was Parkman's father, as that was getting kind of obvious.
My fiancee turned to me half way through this episode and asked why we were still watching. She did have the idea, re: older and younger Noah, that somehow Noah is Claire/Sylar's kid from the future, and that through time manipulation eventually ends up being her dad. Kind of far-fetched, but at this point I wouldn't put it past this show.
I'm just waiting to find out that the formula uses alien DNA collected in the future and brought to the past, and that major figures in history (Vlad the Impaler, Jack the Ripper, Egyptian gods, etc) were all "specials". -
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
So, what happened to Nathan's wife and kids? I missed that somewhere along the lines...
I think what's bugging me the most is that I really can't stand Mohindar. At all. Plus, like, what's he doing with those people anyway? And why can't Maya get all black-eyed when she's in a cocoon type thing anyway?
How did Petrelli Sr. get hurt in the first place?
And who the heck is good and who the heck is bad???
With all the little things I could nit-pick about this show - I still like it. I mean, if it bothers people, why not just shut it off and turn on the football game or something?
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
cmc, I'm about at that point, which is unfortunate. It's the "Smallville" tipping point, I think - the point at which the show becomes too painful to watch anymore.
I may give it one more episode, but I may not.
What frustrates me is that I went back to watch the beginning of Season 1, and the show was so good at that point. It had such potential - and instead, it became super hero soap opera on speed.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Ooooohhh... I know that point, FlyingCow, because I don't watch Smallville anymore... ; )
I'm too hooked to give it up - I want to see how everything plays out. Season 1 WAS the best... I think that's why I'm so hooked.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: cmc, I'm about at that point, which is unfortunate. It's the "Smallville" tipping point, I think - the point at which the show becomes too painful to watch anymore.
I may give it one more episode, but I may not.
What frustrates me is that I went back to watch the beginning of Season 1, and the show was so good at that point. It had such potential - and instead, it became super hero soap opera on speed.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
For the record, I recently decided to catch up on Smallville and watch season 8. (I gave up after season 5.) Season 6 was also a wash but season 7 got much better.
The difference there was that with Smallville, I always wanted to see the show that I started to love (in the first 3 seasons) turn into the Superman story I knew. I was curious.
With Heroes, I'm not even curious anymore. I think when Hiro stabbed Ando it pretty much ended it for me.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I felt the episode was brilliant. You guys simply can enjoy a show for what it is.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
For example I absolutely loved the scene with Sylar where the guy said "I will not be a monster" and sacrificed himself, it was great.
Sylar seems to be enjoying this.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
It did seem out of character for Hiro to blythely stab Ando without dithering about it first. I presume his intent is to find out all about the formula, then go back to the time before Ando's death and use the information to do it without killing him ..? The "fake blood" solution doesn't do it for me.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I believe that the simpliest solution is most likely.
We know that A) Hiro would never kill his friend.
B) That to some extant this is already predetermined, Ando lived.
C) We clearly see the sword penetrating Ando.
To my mind Ando is indeed nearly or is fatally wounded but once they leave the area Hiro comes back warps him to Claire and has him healed.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Or maybe once Hiro does what he needs to do, he thinks he can go to the past, pick up Ando before he kills him, and take him to the future, as if that wouldn't change anything.
I'm sure that Ando isn't gone, since he needs to learn how to throw hadokens.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Blayne, I'm 99% sure that Hiro doesn't even know that Claire can heal Ando. You can't assume that every character knows everything about every other character.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Well he knows Adam can heal, he can get his past blood.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
But he doesn't have any reason to know that Adam or Claire's blood can be used to heal people.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
"I felt the episode was brilliant. You guys simply can enjoy a show for what it is."
You are Season' Three's target audience. This audience seems to like fast paced, thinly plotted, power-use-heavy, mental chewing gum style shows that are based heavily on cliche. See also: ID4, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions, Underworld, Starship Troopers
I was Season One's target audience. This audience seems to like character and plot development that deal with real people's problems coping with the challenges of a fantastical world. See also: Matrix, Pitch Black, Alien
Those target audiences may overlap, but it is my belief that they do so only slightly. I am not in the former category.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The guy pulling himself into a vortex was one of the few believable character choices this season.
Why did NBC feel the need to ruin the final "reveal" for everyone? They already told me it was papa Petrelli and he was pulling all the strings.
Mohinder didn't do the intro, so looks like he might die.
I get what the writers are doing. Its similar to what the Prison Break writers have done. The difference is that the Prison Break writers made it believable and enjoyable to watch. They are trying to "blur the lines between hero and villain." But instead of having reasons, they are just making it happen. They can't just make every character change sides and expect us to put up with it, can they?
Heroes is a prime time super hero soap opera.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Speaking of healing people; how did Nathan get healed? The explanation given is that Linderman healed him, but Linderman is only an illusion created by Parkman's father.
I guess they could use Claire's blood, but who did it?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
It's so stupid how they keep saying "you don't even wanna know..."
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
"Suresh? He's harmless"
I love that line...
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
Just because it's possible that Hiro can get Adam's blood to heal Ando at the last second or change time so that it never happened, doesn't mean that Hiro didn't just kill Ando, that it didn't happen for him. Hiro's supposed to be the pure hero archetype; the ideal he aspires to is something only found in comic books. If he's okay with killing Ando, even in another nonexistent timeline, with zero compunctions, then that's not the same character he was in Season 1, 2, or even the last episode.
Blurring lines between good and evil is okay, and perhaps interesting, but this was a simple case of character derailment.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I agree with Manji. My problem with Hiro killing Ando is that he always came off as an absolutist when it came to morals. A hero would NEVER use a friend's life as a means to an end. A hero protects people, not kills them. A hero doesn't need to prove himself to anyone but himself.
All that kind of stuff.
His killing Ando, even if temporarily, just really rings as too far out of character in my book.
I am in the group of "This is a trainwreck, but I can't turn away." these days. Though I'll echo what T:man said, "Suresh? He's harmless." rocked.
A diamond in the rough, unfortunately. Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
That's what it had been for every character. Hiro, Sylar, Peter, Mohinder, future Claire... None of it made any sense.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I haven't seen the most recent one yet (watching on Netflix), but oh... This is becoming a train wreck.
Just about the only significant character they haven't brought back in actor, function, or spirit is Nicki's husband. And he's one of the few interesting enough that I wouldn't have minded having him back (and I was really annoyed by how they killed him off in a frickin' prologue in season 2.) More paintings! Great! Keeee-rutch.
When Trisha confronted the doctor and said "Do I know you?" I said to my wife "Know you? I created you!"... And then when I was echoed, I had to put my face in my hands.
Can the writers please, please consider the awesome potential of being able to go back in time five minutes and prevent stupid mistakes? And don't give me this "I don't go back in time anymore" nonsense- Hiro went back and forth a few minutes in the opening scenes for fun.
Speaking of which, I guess there's a tacit agreement that we just won't mention the quaint Irish lass we rescued- or possibly obliterated- by dropping in an alternate time-line and then making that timeline never have happened?
I'll grant that it's fun to watch Sylar, and the writing is mostly not the moment-to-moment stupid that infected many scenes in Season 2, but the overall arcs are kind of painful. I can only care how you get from point 'A' to point 'B' (with much foreshadowing) if you can make me believe you aren't pulling it out of your darker orifices, guys...
I also said to someone, perhaps a little harshly, that Heroes doesn't have self-fulfilling prophecies; it only has self-negating ones. Sheesh.
Oh, and did anyone else feel cheated that in the first episode we rendered all the struggles that everyone went through in season one largely irrelevant?...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Look, show: I'm not asking that you serve up juicy, multicoursed drama; I'm not asking that you stay on the cutting edge of serialized storytelling; hell, I'm not dying for visual effects–heavy hoo-ha every second of every episode. I just want a decent show about people with superpowers, where the characters ring with some semblance of truth and the plot occasionally keeps me guessing. And every once in a while, I want to see Marlo Stanfield punch through someone.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Waaaay to harsh dudes. I think this is a case of "But back in the good ol' days!"
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
...Back when there were characters we cared about, plots that weren't hoary cliches, and writing that didn't look like someone failed to go back and fill in the outline?...
You're welcome to enjoy the gruel. Just don't pretend it's something it's not to those who remember meuslix and fresh fruit (or insert your own significantly-better-than-gruel breakfast here).
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Waaaay to harsh dudes. I think this is a case of "But back in the good ol' days!"
"Back in the good old days" is a perfectly valid response to when something that didn't used to suck now is sucking so dangerously hard that it will not survive in its present state. Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Way too harsh?
I'm a Rutgers football fan... in 2006, we were 6-0 at this point in the season, and this year we're 1-5. We're just not very good this year, and there are serious problems to address before we can get better.
That isn't a matter of being too harsh, or remembering the "good old days". The team has changed, for the worse, and the chemistry that made them so good in 2006 is not there this year.
Heroes is the same way. Except that instead of being 1-5, they're 0-6 in my book this year. Not one episode was as good as any episode in the first half of Season One (and I've been watching them this week on DVD, so it's not a case of "better in memory")
Viewers are jumping ship, and in its present state, I don't see it making it to next season.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
I have to agree that this last episode didn't "do it" for me.
That Linderman was a telepathic projection by "someone" has always been obvious. As soon as he told Daphne that Parkman can control minds, while Matt himself still more or less thinks he can read, but not control. . . . that told me it was Parkman's dad.
I don't like Hiro anymore. He's been a complete moron this entire season. Last season he wasn't always the brightest bulb, but he was still actively bettering himself. This season he's just bipping around messing things up.
Couldn't care less about Niki/Tracy, but would love it if they gave Nathan a bit more to do.
Glad they appear to have killed off Maya. Can't wait for Suresh to die too.
HRG's starting to become a bit 1-note again "It's all for you Claire-Bear!" /gag
Peter's become way to reactionary -- no longer thinks thinks trhough, jsut "does them." How is this in character for the emo guy who overthought everything? I can see him movign a bit away from overthinking, but he's been taken waaaaaaaaay too far.
We need more Haitian! LOTS more Haitian!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
.... :/ .... I Am Become Dumb
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Magson:
We need more Haitian! LOTS more Haitian!
As he speaks so seldom, it limits how stupid the writers can make him.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Better to stay silent and be thought typecast than to open your mouth and remove all smart
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I love the Haitian. Does anyone not? Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
What ever happened to the threat to the "Space-time continuum"?
What ever happened to beheading killing immortals?
What happened to the Irish Girl?
What happened to Sylar's super hearing?
What happened to ANY of Peter's/Sylar's other powers?
Who did Daphne steal the first half of the formula from?
What happened to the Season 1 writers, and where did they get these hacks that are writing this show now?
I think I'm done coming up with ways the characters SHOULD have acted. It's hard to write characters smarter than yourself. I'll just have to assume that the writers must be rushed to the point where they don't have time to THINK through what a rational person would do, and so just go with the first thing to come to mind.
I'll try to take a look into the convoluted mind of the current writers. Let me start by saying that I assume they have a point. They have some grand clincher that will tie all of these stray threads together. MAYBE they'll even close a few plot holes.
First, recall from October 6th's episode when they were in the future after the explosion with Clair, Nathan, etc. Nathan mentioned something about needing an Army of "specials" to prevent the apocalypse. Zoom to Monday's episode, we hear the term "Army" again from Sr. Petreli.
I think the entire crew is being split into 2 opposing factions. Most of them are probably being manipulated and don't know what they're actually fighting for. Each side obviously thinks they're in the right.
I think the story will be clearer if we can figure out who is with which faction. In light of Monday's episode, I must assume that it's Mrs. Petreli's group vs Sr. Petreli's.
By the time we get to the "Future", it seems like only Peter is left on Mrs. P's team (or maybe he's independent, but against Sr. P, I consider Mrs. P's team). I don't know when the Haitian turned over, but he obviously did. Since it would appear that Sr. P is pro-formula, I'm guessing that Ando took that side while Hiro is Mrs. P's.
On Sr. P's team (as we can see forming up from Monday's episode), we have Daphne, Parkman, Nathan, Clair, The Haitian, Nightmare Man, and Fearmonger. I'm inclined to want to like Daphne, and we all know that Parkman does whatever he THINKS is right, so I would guess that they are being manipulated on some level. Nathan probably thinks he knows what's going on, but is being led around by Sr. P (This is more apparent considering Peter's comment in the Future "You believe that you're doing the right thing, but you're wrong"). And nobody knows what the Haitian's agenda is. Clair has obviously gone psycho.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I think the underlying point to this season will be that villainy is subjective. If you THINK you're doing right, are you really a villain? It all depends on which side of the story you see. We've seen it before in this show. Recall the previous-future Hiro and Peter being considered Terrorists, the same as present-future Peter seems to be now. In everyone else's view, HE is the real bad guy here. HE is the one that must be stopped. Since we, the audience have seen things from his point of view, it seems that it is everyone else who has gone wayward.
I think it's an overall good point. As OCS says, Every character is the hero of their own story. Real people don't deliberately go out of their way to be "Evil". They almost always think they're doing the right/most logical thing; they think they know something that other people don't that makes THEIR choice the right one.
I think that this season is going to show the "Villains'" motives for doing the things they do, and, as such, let us empathize with them. Maybe, by the end, they'll show Peter as the one being in the wrong so they can point and say "See? He was wrong, but you cheered for him because you knew his side of the story."
At least... I HOPE this is what the message for this season is. Now if only they could make us care about the characters again... and fill in the plot holes BEFORE the series sinks.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Didn't Sylar lose his original set of powers in early S2 when he woke up in that cottage in South/Central America with that illusion woman? Wasn't that why he was going to find Mohinder - to get his ability to get other peoples' powers back?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
He got them all back though. He has telekinesis. I don't see any reason he wouldn't have gotten them all back.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
No, I thought they said he lost all those powers, like officially.
quote:I don't see any reason
That doesn't stop anything in this show!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I don't have S2 anymore. How could he have gotten Telekinesis back? Did he find another person with it?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by T:man: It's so stupid how they keep saying "you don't even wanna know..."
When I saw that Claire's mom pulled a file, talked about vortexes, then pulled another one I was sure she'd say "you don't even wanna know". Well, guess what, stupid, we DO wanna know!
quote:Originally posted by T:man: "Suresh? He's harmless"
I love that line...
That WAS great.
I guess I'm half a target for this season: I like the action, but I also have problems with the unbelievably stupid plot. The thing is, the sheer stupidity has almost made me turn off the "thinking" side of my brain, and made me more able to enjoy the rest. Not sure how long it will last though. I almost want their planet to blow up already and be done with it. Or sucked into a vortex (what the heck IS that thing?).
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
a black hole.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: No, I thought they said he lost all those powers, like officially.
quote:I don't see any reason
That doesn't stop anything in this show!
While I wouldn't put it past them to pull something like that, where he only got some back, I'm pretty sure that he has all of the ones he absorbed prior to season 2 (although he didn't get Candace's).
Also, we saw him use Isaac and that radiation guy's powers in the future, so it's a safe bet that he has the rest. I also thought that it was implied that he was using that super hearing when Noah was trying to get him killed.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Yeah, cause we saw him looking all listen-y.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Didnt a scientist guy say earlyier on that the only power they could see he had was telekenisis genetically speaking?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I'm taking bets on who the next actor from The Wire will be on Heroes. We've got Bubs and Marlo--now we need Stringer, one of the Barksdales, and of course--Omar Little.
Anybody with me on this?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I felt the episode was brilliant. You guys simply can enjoy a show for what it is.
For example I absolutely loved the scene with Sylar where the guy said "I will not be a monster" and sacrificed himself, it was great.
Sylar seems to be enjoying this.
It had to happen eventually. I agree with Blayne 100%.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Well, either you agree with him or you agree with me... neither is exactly commonplace. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: While I wouldn't put it past them to pull something like that, where he only got some back, I'm pretty sure that he has all of the ones he absorbed prior to season 2 (although he didn't get Candace's).
They did pull that. Officially — this is confirmed — when he recovered his powers he only got telekinesis and intuitive aptitude back. It is indicated that he probably slowly recovers the other previously absorbed powers but has few now.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: It is indicated that he probably slowly recovers the other previously absorbed powers but has few now.
Oh, boy. Why do I suspect that "slowly recovers the other previously absorbed powers" ought to be read as "as convenient to the scriptwriters"?
Like they aren't getting enough conveniences treating our suspension of disbelief like a punching bag...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I missed last week but I read about it. This week was interesting. Things I like:
Sylar becoming a good guy. Quinto is a great actor, and I think Sylar as a bad guy has run its course, but Gabriel as a good guy has a lot of potential.
Peter I think was a stupid good guy and was starting to look like a stupid bad guy. I love that Arthur took his powers, because I think that means when he gets them back, he'll get everything except Sylar's hunger, which will get rid of that extremely annoying plot point.
Mohinder as a diabolical mad scientist is interesting. He's a weird outlier though. I think things would be better if he was totally gone, but some of the mystery in the show might be taken out if it was JUST one organization against one organization, rather than this new Pinehearst super bad guy group versus Primatech, which apparently is ACTUALLY the good guy group, but then there are some smaller individuals and groups out there that mix things up.
I like that the picture is starting to become clearer. I like that Claire has stopped whining and has started acting. I'm not entirely clear on what Arthur's power is supposed to be. He sucked the life out of Adam, but just the powers out of Peter.
I like the turn things have taken in just the last two weeks. I wasn't going to give up on the show, but my enthusiasm was waning something fierce. Now I really want to see where this is going to go, with one stipulation: No more time travel!
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
My guess is that he sucked the power out of Adam too, which caused Adam to die instantly since his natural lifespan was long over. Not that that makes logical sense, but it does make Heroes sense, I suppose.
I was pretty annoyed last week when Hiro didn't just go back in time 5 minutes and watch where Adam went.
This week, Hiro froze time, but we've already established that Daphne moves at normal speed when Hiro does that, so wouldn't she have seen him freeze time and then teleport away?
Finally, why wouldn't Peter get Sylar's ability back if he gets all of his other abilities back from Pa Petrelli? I think it's equally likely that all he'll get back from Pa Petrelli is his own ability, though of course he would then immediately absorb the rest unless Pa Petrelli was dead.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:He sucked the life out of Adam, but just the powers out of Peter.
Adam's power was life. When he lost his powers the years caught up with him. Cliche.
Interesting that Arthur holds the key to removing people's powers, which some people want, except the cost of losing your powers means you give them to a bad guy.
Also interesting that Hiro's "stupidity" is actually a plot point.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not sure I get why Arthur gets all of the powers that Peter has collected along the way. Stealing his power to steal powers, sure, but the repetoire he's built up? That seemed odd, and frankly I think gives him way, way too much power.
I'd be fine with him giving Peter back just his own absorption power minus everything else. He only uses three or four of those powers on a regular basis anyway, and he can recollect them from a lot of people. Or Arthur could give him back all his other powers by using them one by one except for Sylar's hunger. Or he could maybe choose to give them all back except that one. He his Peter's father after all. He obviously doesn't want him dead, or he'd already be dead. If he wants to make him into an agent, I'd think not giving back the hunger would be a good step.
Either way, other than more time travel, this is the only plot device introduced so far that could remove Sylar's hunger from him. And that's what I'm hoping for.
Edit to add: Ah! I totally get that now about Adam's ability. I didn't realize that his powers were actively keeping him young and that losing those powers would cause his entire body to regress to ashes. It's the instant death part that got me. I figures he'd just lose his powers and then be mortal. That makes more sense now.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I figures he'd just lose his powers and then be mortal. That makes more sense now.
That's what I figured, too, but this is Heroes.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Does anyone else think that Adam's death was a complete and utter waste? Seriously, what screenwriter came up with that? "Hey, I know—let's bring back the biggest villain from last season, except that he won't actually do anything and then he'll get killed."
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Does anyone else think that Adam's death was a complete and utter waste? Seriously, what screenwriter came up with that? "Hey, I know—let's bring back the biggest villain from last season, except that he won't actually do anything and then he'll get killed."
I was sad to see him sacked. Perhaps the writers were afraid they'd get bombarded with, "Hey where's Adam, is he going to be stuck in that coffin forever!?" emails until the show ends, or even further into the future than that.
This episode actually sat better with me than most this season. I wish they hadn't introduced so many heroes, I feel like they need to get rid of 4 or 5. I also think they need to stop constantly belaboring the dual nature aspect of heroes. Yes we get it, heroes like humans can be good or bad, and sometimes people do bad things for good reasons, and try to do good things for bad reasons. But PLEASE just give us one hero who is consistently good, even if that goodness is a problem in some situations. With all these broken heroes running around, just give us one who is a good example of what a person with powers can aspire to be.
edit: I mean I suppose Hiro fits that niche, but the universe is still portrayed in such a way that Hiro is like two steps away from being a villain.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
What about Parkman?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
He once or twice does villain like things but only in the alternate futures.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Also, the reason why the Speedster couldn't be immune in that scene was because she wasn't using her powers at the time, she can only move when Hiro is doing his thing is when shes accelerated.
Though I have to wonder, what if someone trips her when shes going mach 5?
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Yeah, Parkman has been underused this season.
Even though a lot of this season has been a trainwreck, I liked how they built up some momentum. It was the first time that I've felt suspense at all.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
yeah they might recover at this rate.
WORST CHARACTER OF SEASON THREE: Mohinder
BEST CHARACTER OF SEASON THREE: Mr. Turtle!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'll admit, I thought it was both hilarious and a little awesome for the split second that it looked like Parkman was really reading the Turtle's mind before we saw that it was the "African Mr. Eezack." I like the new precog character, but that would've been sweet if Parkman could read animal's minds. It'd add a comical but helpful Dr. Doolittle aspect to his character.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I'm not entirely clear on what Arthur's power is supposed to be. He sucked the life out of Adam, but just the powers out of Peter.
Well, he showed us that he can use any of the powers that he sucks out, so I had just figured that at some point he acquired a "suck the life out of people" power. Or it could be what everyone else has said, and Adam's power was the only thing keeping him from dying.
--Mel
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I believe Mr Petreli's power is essentially Peter's power but more developed.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
That makes a lot of sense—just like how Matt's dad has developed his power far beyond simple telepathy. Of course, Arthur seemed to need physical contact to steal powers, whereas Peter just needs to be near someone.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Maybe to use the "drain powers" super empathy you need to touch someone. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
But if he could pick up powers through proximity, then he would've gotten Adam's healing power before he touched him.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Mr Petreli's power is to steal the power from someone else. When he stole Adam's power, he had it and Adam did not. Adam's power is to regenerate, to the point that he had not died in centuries. Without that ability, a few hundred years of aging caught up with him. So Mr Petreli did not suck the life out of him at all, Adam's decay was a bi-product of sucking the power out of him.
I will also add that I was about to give up on this show (again) but once again, just in the nick of time, it got good. This was a good episode. I liked everything about it, except Mohinder, who should just die already.
The turtle is the best character. Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
... oops
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
oops....
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The Turtle is officially my new favorite character. So far he has demonstrated a remarkable intellectual advantage over the other characters. Plus, turtles are awesome.
I *think* I liked this episode a lot, but Hulu was playing it so spaztasitically that I could barely follow some parts, and NBC.com wouldn't play it at all.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Hiro Vs Precog African guy was the best scene this show has seen in a LONG time. Though I still think that Hiro relies too LITTLE on his power rather than too much, as the African guy would have him believe. I mean... seriously... how hard would it be to freeze time and LOOK for him for a few minutes?
I think Sr. Petrelli's power isn't as good as Peter's. Proximity > Contact. I think Sr.P is just smarter. He knows his powers and knows how to use them.
Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Also, I don't think anyone can move during a time freeze unless Hiro LETS them. He wanted answers from Daphne during their first encounter, so he unfroze her. Did anyone else notice that in that first scene with her, she was basically like a Tornado whenever she sped by, but now you barely get a rustle out of papers and whatnot?
Death to Suresh. Long live the Turtle!!!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Because the whole point was to make puppet guy think Claire was dead so he wouldn't use his power on her. If her own mother had just shot her without flinching, he would have known something was up.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Hiro Vs Precog African guy was the best scene this show has seen in a LONG time. Though I still think that Hiro relies too LITTLE on his power rather than too much, as the African guy would have him believe. I mean... seriously... how hard would it be to freeze time and LOOK for him for a few minutes?
I think Sr. Petrelli's power isn't as good as Peter's. Proximity > Contact. I think Sr.P is just smarter. He knows his powers and knows how to use them.
Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Also, I don't think anyone can move during a time freeze unless Hiro LETS them. He wanted answers from Daphne during their first encounter, so he unfroze her. Did anyone else notice that in that first scene with her, she was basically like a Tornado whenever she sped by, but now you barely get a rustle out of papers and whatnot?
Death to Suresh. Long live the Turtle!!!
Thats like the people still believing that the Turtle can speak, Hiro cannot freeze Daphne when shes in midstride, only when shes not using her power.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Because the whole point was to make puppet guy think Claire was dead so he wouldn't use his power on her. If her own mother had just shot her without flinching, he would have known something was up.
I'm foggy on this point, can Claire feel pain again?
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
I think Blayne's right about the Hiro/Daphne thing.
As for Peter's ability, I was under the impression that it's not proximity so much as an awareness of others' abilities that allows him to acquire them. In other words, he's already capable of using any power as long as he's aware it exists and knows how to access it.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
I'd like to point out that Adam's quick decay into dust after losing his immortality makes just about as much sense as....
<SPOILER FOR THE ENDER SERIES BELOW!!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!>
....Ender's instant decomposition in the final book (so far) of the Ender series. Just because the controlling auia left his body didn't mean that all of the smaller auia's in charge of his molecules, blood vessels, etc. suddenly needed to vanish and disobey the laws set forth by chemistry, physics, etc. That scene in "Children of the Mind" always bothered.
Alternately, Miro's instant decomposition while 'outside' in "Xenocide" made perfect sense to me, since his old body was following the 'orders', so to speak, of Miro's auia. Being 'outside' meant that the old body was no longer subject to the laws of nature set forth 'inside' and succumbed to...rapid entropy in the disorderly chaos of 'outside'.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Because the whole point was to make puppet guy think Claire was dead so he wouldn't use his power on her. If her own mother had just shot her without flinching, he would have known something was up.
I'm foggy on this point, can Claire feel pain again?
She is able to feel it, but for a while she was too angsty to feel pain.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Short answer no.
Long answer noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Longer more detailed: It is not apparant in any dialog that Claire can once again feel pain the same way we feel it, however I do believe she can psycologically feel pain/pressure as a sort of backup. She can't feel real pain as we do, but she can undoubtably feel that there are things missing/sticking out of her that shouldn't be.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by rollainm: As for Peter's ability, I was under the impression that it's not proximity so much as an awareness of others' abilities that allows him to acquire them. In other words, he's already capable of using any power as long as he's aware it exists and knows how to access it.
I don't think that's right, because he picked up Nathan's ability to fly before he actually knew that Nathan could fly. But it wasn't until he became fully aware of those powers that he was able to control them.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
and the dreams.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
I thought it was quite realistic that she couldn't bring herself to shoot her own daughter, but that once she psyched herself into it, she just kept pulling the trigger as if on autopilot. She pulled the trigger what, 3 times? That kept it from looking like the writers decided: "the first shot won't go off, but when Clair is the target, it's ok, so that's how we resolve the scene."
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The problem with that scene comes from all the build up to that point. As soon as they showed us the gun we knew what would happen, yet they still took forever to get there. Great decision to have the bullet fire on the second shot. I was pleasantly surprised.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Clair + Russian roulette = predictable. Enough said. I fail to see why Mom hesitated...
Because the whole point was to make puppet guy think Claire was dead so he wouldn't use his power on her. If her own mother had just shot her without flinching, he would have known something was up.
I suppose I just didn't like how Mom had to be coaxed into an emotional storm before she could do what should have been the most obvious thing in the world. If Claire had had to spell it out any more, then all Plausibility from the Puppeteer's point of view would have gone out the window...
I guess they're just making her out to be the overly emotional, irrational type. It kinda makes sense given her reactions to everything Bio-Mom or Claire have done thus far.
I just don't connect to irrational characters I guess. She's like the Polar Opposite of Noah except where Claire is concerned.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I thought this episode was great. Why is it that the only cool characters are the haitian and the african isaac?
Good to finally see Peter neutered...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: The problem with that scene comes from all the build up to that point. As soon as they showed us the gun we knew what would happen, yet they still took forever to get there. Great decision to have the bullet fire on the second shot. I was pleasantly surprised.
Third. Claire fired once, and her mother fired three times at Claire.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It was interesting watching the fight between Gabriel and Peter, though. Last time they had a big power fight, Peter was the good guy and Gabriel was the bad guy.
There's a cool essay at the end of Stephen R. Donaldson's first Gap book where he talks about the difference between drama and melodrama. In melodrama, you have a hero, a victim and a villain, at minimum. And the hero stays a hero, the victim stays a victim, and the villain stays a villain. But in drama, they aren't fixed. A person who was a hero might be a villain or a victim at a different time. And any of the others might switch roles as well.
Every one of us could be any of those three archetypical roles, and I suspect that most of us have played all three at one time or another (though I also suspect that most people would deny ever having played the villain; I just wouldn't believe them). Why is it so hard for some people to see Peter as a villain? He wasn't much of a hero in the first place. More of a whiny little boy. And why is it so hard to believe that the iron will of Gabriel could be used by him to overcome his bloodlust and let him be a power for good? It doesn't mean that his crimes would ever be wiped out, but good is good, even if done by someone who has done evil in the past.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: I suppose I just didn't like how Mom had to be coaxed into an emotional storm before she could do what should have been the most obvious thing in the world. If Claire had had to spell it out any more, then all Plausibility from the Puppeteer's point of view would have gone out the window...
I guess they're just making her out to be the overly emotional, irrational type. It kinda makes sense given her reactions to everything Bio-Mom or Claire have done thus far.
I just don't connect to irrational characters I guess. She's like the Polar Opposite of Noah except where Claire is concerned.
See, but you're watching a TV show. So you've suspended your disbelief and you can accept that Claire can't be killed by being shot. Within the world of Heroes, Claire's mom isn't watching TV. She's seen Claire do miraculous things, but this is still her baby. And she knows that when you shoot someone point blank, they die. I think it would be hard as hell for any real person to pull that trigger.
On the other hand, when her mother said, "Like your father always says, 'One of us; one of them' ", what kind of "always" was she talking about? Up until recently, she was being regularly mind wiped by the Haitian.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
Yah, in the series continuity, they've only known about Bennett's activities for a few months, it seems.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Maybe Noah talks in his sleep?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: I suppose I just didn't like how Mom had to be coaxed into an emotional storm before she could do what should have been the most obvious thing in the world. If Claire had had to spell it out any more, then all Plausibility from the Puppeteer's point of view would have gone out the window...
I guess they're just making her out to be the overly emotional, irrational type. It kinda makes sense given her reactions to everything Bio-Mom or Claire have done thus far.
I just don't connect to irrational characters I guess. She's like the Polar Opposite of Noah except where Claire is concerned.
See, but you're watching a TV show. So you've suspended your disbelief and you can accept that Claire can't be killed by being shot. Within the world of Heroes, Claire's mom isn't watching TV. She's seen Claire do miraculous things, but this is still her baby. And she knows that when you shoot someone point blank, they die. I think it would be hard as hell for any real person to pull that trigger.
This woman speaks the truth. Honestly even in a video game when I am instructed to kill a good guy I try to find anyway out of it, and even if I can't, I often find the game to be far less enjoyable after that point.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Now there is one thing I do not understand, is this apparant skitsophrenia with healings powers for Peter, he appear to not have it for the last few episodes but I clearly know the only reason he survived his first encounte with sylar season 1 was because of the healing powers from clair, and in season 2 he was at least in proximity with Adam.
Now only future peter actually "died" from being shot and had a scar, but hes been in proximity with evil-claire. Alhough he seems to have healed from the scapal wounds.
:edit: I think i got it, the Haitian was there future peter was shot yes?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Yes.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Here's my theory on why Future Peter has a scar and died. Angela only said that Nathan had been given his power. I think Peter's is natural born, encoded in his DNA. So although Arthur took his powers, the empathy will reemerge.
Claire, meanwhile, has lost her ability to feel pain. If she keeps on with the emotionless shell routine, there won't be anything there for Peter to absorb. So while he'll get many of his powers back, he'll never regain Claire's healing.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:skitsophrenia
Are you trying to hurt me? What have I ever done to you?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
No, see, skitsophrenia is when one actor portrays two completely different characters in the same sketch.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Okay so HE DID have healing before but now its gone.
Favorite line ever: "just kick his ass and lets go!"
Kinda predicted the illusion bit, the turtle is too awesome a character to lose.
I wonder whats Hiro's spirit walk is like, and wtf Nathan, no, don't do it, stop, don't go, stay back think, think some more, go to a bar then think some more again and rethink that thought enough times for you to realize that its COMPLETELY UNFORGIVABLY RETARDED to decide to go on your own or with Ice Girl to see your psychotic father who may not even BE your father, when all you can do is fly. And Ice girl isn't experienced enough to do crud.
And yes! I know they only held hands, but its only one small step for man's entertainment
And Sylar continues to fascinate me.
Now, question is, how many basic element abilities would you need to be godlike through the combining and manipulation of abilities? Like say using electricity to make a fusion bomb? Or making a cutting laser by manipulating light.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Wow, Pa Petrelli's acting felt completely flat to me. He was much more menacing when he wasn't talking.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
How stupid was Claire to go on an airplane with out of control electricity girl?
When Matt got stuck, I started ranting through the commercial break about "What, did they decide there are too many characters, and they're killing them all off? And then as soon as they came back from the break, I was like, "Oh, Matt faked it." Which I should have realized. But I thought Daphne really was being good. Damn, this show is hurting my neck.
I'm with Blayne about Gabriel. I was honestly feeling bad for him during this episode. Who ever would have imagined that?
Mohinder sux. And Death Girl redeemed herself by blowing him off.
Btw, going back to some of the earlier Heroes comics on the NBC site, there was a five part story called War Buddies. It's about Arthur Petrelli and Linderman, and how they met. Judging by the preview for two weeks from now, I think it's worth a reread.
If they're going to throw away characters, they should really start with the stupid ones like Niki II, Mohinder, and Maya, not with the villains like Adam and Matt's dad.
And they really need to stop with everyone changing sides every other episode. Morally grey areas are interesting—changing loyalties on a whim is not.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
to be fair, if you were asked to kill your own son when your raison d'etre there was to PREVENT that I think changing sides would be acceptable.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I liked Murry's reminder that even bad parents love their kids. That worked for me.
Daphne still seems on the fence to me. I think she set Parkman up to think she was on his side, but I really think she's starting to see what a great guy he is. Who wouldn't like Parkmen?
Gabriel, I think, is still a good guy. He thinks he's tricked Arthur into thinking he's on his side, but Arthur wasn't fooled. He knows he's the only one who could have saved Peter. He knows he's still trying to be a good guy, even if he did kill that random doctor without even a glance when rescuing Peter. Baby steps, as it were.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The way Maury treated Matt, though... that was more than "bad parent". That was evil.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I think Daphne is firmly on Matt's side. I think that she is now playing Arthur. Even if she isn't... Matt reads minds... I mean c'mon.
Why are people still talking about Peter's ability? I thought we established already that it has nothing to do with them being anywhere near him. He just has to come into proximity once, and he has to actually KNOW what they can do. Those are the only stipulations... He can throw lightning without Elle around, and he can time travel etc without Hiro around. He could also heal without Claire or Adam around (once he knew about it).
I assume that the reason Future Peter was still on the table was because either they put something into his head to keep him on stasis, or it was just the proximity of the Haitian. I'm sure the Scar has some explanation too, or perhaps it isn't physically there and the director is using it for the audience's sake to differentiate between Peters.
Arthur doesn't seem to know that he absorbed the ability to Time Travel from Peter. He's probably like Peter in that he doesn't automatically KNOW what he absorbed, and so doesn't try to use it. Otherwise, I assume the series would be over immediately, as I'm sure he would have absolutely no problem tweaking time until it suits his purpose (I hope this is the case, otherwise we have another idiot time traveler on our hands...)
One thing I can't figure out is why Arthur is bothering with this whole power-trip thing... I mean... he's an immortal now. What the hell does an immortal even DO? What's the point of taking over the world? Wouldn't that get boring after a few hundred years? Maybe he really DOES think he's helping... I suppose saving the world would be a step toward appeasing the infinite boredom that comes with immortality more so than ruling it. Maybe both.
At this point, I think that only 3 people in the world can stop Arthur. Sylar because he can use his Intuition to outsmart Dad, the Haitian for obvious reasons (hell, he could go in to Pinehearst with a baseball bat and end this if he really wanted to), and Hiro if he would just stop being an idiot.
Actually, scratch that last. I think that's actually how Arthur is going to find out that he has time/space manipulation. Hiro is going to stop time to attack Arthur, and well... he isn't going to be stopped. He's then going to rip Hiro a new one in freeze mode and be over-joyed at his newly discovered power. At this point, Sylar is going to develop a plan that involves sneaking the Haitian into Pineheart (probably have him brought in unconscious or something. Maybe tell Dad that he has some nifty ability that he would want), and wreak havoc.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Yeah, I have to wonder why Pa Petrelli thinks he can trust that Daphne has fooled Matt when he knows as well as anyone that the guy can freaking read minds.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Does anyone else wonder who's taking care of Molly?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
There's one ability that would make someone an absolute god among this show's characters. You know how the black guy absorbs fear? Think about what you could do if you absorbed their stupidity! Elle and Claire going head on to a company they know nothing about, in a plane easy to crash by someone shooting electricity out of their hands (I think there was a scene like that in a movie before... It was called Star Wars, you might have heard of it.); Claire actually winding Elle up on the plane; either Parkman not reading deep enough in speedgirl's mind or Pa Petrelli sending her to lie to the guy who freaking reads minds; Nathan flying to see his all powerful father despite Peter's warnings; Hiro not figuring out how and when to use his power (it was funny in Season I, but it's getting old, guys). I don't think I need to go on.
I'll still watch the show, but they need to come up with something A) plausible B) definitive (no more bad guys becoming good guys becoming bad guys) and C) not stupid soon enough, or else I'll probably drop it after this season. Any chance this will actually be the last season?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: And Sylar continues to fascinate me.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I agree. Actually, I was so thoroughly annoyed with Syler in seasons 1 and 2 that it's taken me a while to come around on him. I just about thre wup when he turned out to be another long-lost Patrelli, but I'm starting to get into him now.
Last night's episode kept me going. The pace this season is much, much better than the previous 2 seasons. I'm eager for Hiro's spirit journey next week.
I'm wondering if Peter is going to develop his scar during this period of powerlessness. Then, when he gets his regeneration power back, the wound will already be healed, even if it is scarred, so no need to regen.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've been wondering that for awhile. Matt was taking care of her, but he's been gone for a week.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
They mentioned her briefly in the first episode, but I can't remember where they said she was.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I just about thre wup when he turned out to be another long-lost Patrelli, but I'm starting to get into him now.
At least this week they actually gave a plausible reason for why he was given up for adoption.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
You know... I would bet anything that Gabriel wouldn't have become the monster Mrs. P saw if she had raised him as her true son instead of disowning him as an infant. Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. (This is, of course, assuming that Arthur wasn't lying about that whole fiasco)
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I think he was lying.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I thought we established already that it has nothing to do with them being anywhere near him. He just has to come into proximity once, and he has to actually KNOW what they can do.
No he doesn't have to KNOW what they can do. He had his first pre-cog dream long before he found out his mother had them. He drew his first picture of the future before he knew Isaac could paint the future, he healed himself before he knew that Claire had the ability, he was present with Hiro in suspended time before he even met Hiro and something similar happened with the invisible guy. I think he has to KNOW what the powers are before he can control them but he doesn't have to know what they are before he absorbs the powers.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: You know... I would bet anything that Gabriel wouldn't have become the monster Mrs. P saw if she had raised him as her true son instead of disowning him as an infant. Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. (This is, of course, assuming that Arthur wasn't lying about that whole fiasco)
Maybe they're both true. Angela had those dreams about Sylar being a monster when it was likely he would be raised by Angela and evil!guy ARTHUR Petrelli. After he was given up maybe she had new dreams about him being a hero.
More likely he was lying, though.
I thought this episode was the best this season -- not that it's hard to be better than the tripe that came before it, but still. I liked how Peter came back for Gabrielle, flying in the face of Arthur's 'proof' that Gabe had no place in the Petrelli family. I still hate how characters do stupid things for no reason, but it seemed to happen less in this episode.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I'm beginning to wonder whether "One of Us, one of them" means something other "one with superpowers and one without". With the exception of Bennet, we haven't met anyone from the company who doesn't have a superpower. I'm betting the Bennet has a power too and that we will found out about it in the next few episodes.
I'm going to speculate that "us" and "them" refer to those with natural abilities and those with synthetic abilities although I'm not willing to speculate about which is "us" and which is "them".
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
In the graphic novels, they explore "One of Us, One of Them" in a bit more detail. It really is just a person with abilities and one without.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
I'm more or less still enjoying the show, but I have a hard time with how rapidly the characters switch alliances. The plot is convoluted enough without the repeated "tag, your on my team" stuff.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP: I'm more or less still enjoying the show, but I have a hard time with how rapidly the characters switch alliances. The plot is convoluted enough without the repeated "tag, your on my team" stuff.
That's what bugged me about last night! I was having trouble putting my finger on it. I mean, I get that they're really stressing the whole "shades of gray" morality thing, but frankly I want to root for someone already.
At least there's Hiro. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP: I'm more or less still enjoying the show, but I have a hard time with how rapidly the characters switch alliances. The plot is convoluted enough without the repeated "tag, your on my team" stuff.
Yup. This is what I was trying to say in my last post. They're not exploring shades of grey—they're just flipping everyone rapidly between black and white and hoping it creates the same effect.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well, if we are just talking colors I suppose it works. If you squint. Prison Break has done this well. Nearly every character could be argued as good or bad. In Heroes it's just a mess.
Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
The only think that I keep wondering is why all the future people are usually smart and skilled with their powers while all the present people have no clue? They have gone through so many future scenarios all of which have every hero becoming great and powerful, but not one character in the present has displayed the kind of determination or skill that the future people have.
Future Hiro in the first season had nearly perfect control over his power, and used it to correct the time line pretty well. I don't remember how far into the future that was, but it seems like he has gone the other way and will remain naive and childlike through the whole series.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:The only think that I keep wondering is why all the future people are usually smart and skilled with their powers while all the present people have no clue?
Because over time they've learned better how to use their powers?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well sure that's the obvious answer.
But I think J-Put's complaint is that they don't even look like they are headed in that direction at all. Some of them, if anything, look like they've even gotten worse, not better. And yet miraculously they all seem to be perfectly trained and competent with their powers in the not too distant future. I guess that begs the question: What dramatic events transpire from now until that that lead to such a radical shift in the way they control their powers?
Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
What kind of event COULD happen? They have been dealing with the end of the world since season one. Most of them have seen some of their friends or family die. Hiro recently saw Ando kill him. Claire saw her father get shot in the head. If they have seen all of this and have had absolutely no change in their behavior, then what event could possibly ever make them change? I think that the writers have written themselves into a very large hole, and i don't see a way for them to get out of it. All of the characters seem totally unchangeable in their mindsets, except when the writers want them to suddenly change sides for no reason, and there will no longer be any believable event to make a character change.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Hiro is going to freeze time for everyone except them and they're gonna train for 50 years. Then Claire is going to infuse them all with a dose of her blood so they regain their youth.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
From your lips to Kring's ears.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Hiro is going to freeze time for everyone except them and they're gonna train for 50 years. Then Claire is going to infuse them all with a dose of her blood so they regain their youth.
Am I the only one who wonders if Maury pulled a fake death just like Matt did?
Mainly because they don't seem to let anyone just die. Also I wonder if Arthur might have been the one who saved Peter, both because Peter is his son, and so Peter would alert Nathan.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Don't see how that'd work. Arthur has Peter's mind powers that Peter got from Matt. Traditionally anyone who has that power can block someone else from using it, though I suppose Arthur's inexperience could give Maury an edge. But no, I think he's dead.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marek: Am I the only one who wonders if Maury pulled a fake death just like Matt did?
Mainly because they don't seem to let anyone just die. Also I wonder if Arthur might have been the one who saved Peter, both because Peter is his son, and so Peter would alert Nathan.
Yes, both of those have occurred to me. At the very least, it seems like he was absolutely fine with Peter getting away. So either he saved him, or he was prepared to do so.
Also, he has Matt's power by way of Peter. It's possible, though I doubt they will go this way, that he used it to influence Sylar to save Peter.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Don't see how that'd work. Arthur has Peter's mind powers that Peter got from Matt. Traditionally anyone who has that power can block someone else from using it, though I suppose Arthur's inexperience could give Maury an edge. But no, I think he's dead.
I doubt that Maury would have fooled Mr Patrelli, but it certainly seems possible that the whole thing was arranged for Daphne's benefit. Neither would really surprise me.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Just watched the latest episode on Netflix.
"I needed help, so the best thing I could think of to do is to break into your house and assault you and your family."
"Well, that seems reasonable. Let's fly cross-country together, and have a bonding moment on a plane that shows the writers think a human being can serve as a grounding device. Then we can look for help for no good reason from an enormous secretive organization; it's not like anything like that has ever gone wrong before."
"Oh no! Someone we both know and care about has been thrown out a window! Maybe we should back up and find out what happened in there before we rush into the bowels of the enormous secretive organization!"
"Are you kidding? The show is an hour long, and this plot doesn't have time to stop for contemplative, potentially non-suicidal acts! Do you know what might happen if I take an hour to find out what Peter has to say?"
"Uh, no..."
"Me neither! And I'm not going to find out, either! (rushes inside)"
...Meanwhile...
Daphne and Matt are gruesomely killed. Audience laughs a hearty laugh at the idea we're supposed to believe this for even as long as it takes the special effects to kick in. Matt's mind-reading abilities are thwarted by a plot device.
Mohinder continues his journey towards the Dark Side. Audience wonders how this could have happened to this character, and then remembers that Mohinder hasn't been so much a character as a Plot Device Execution Machine since Season 2.
Nathan Petrelli contemplates the idea of actually using his powers as an elected official of high office to accomplish his goals rather than rushing off like a bull in a china shop, then remembers Elle's admonishment about the dangers of contemplative, non-suicidal acts and announces his intention to rush off to his cipher-like love interest. She, having been drugged and chained to a table as a result of his last great idea, demands to tag along for this one.
Hiro follows in Matt's footsteps and takes part in the "Anyone Can Be Isaac Mendez" workshop. As he falls into a vision-inducing coma, Ando asks if he'll wake up and urgently shouts Hiro's name. Audience reassures Ando that the show would never be quite so stupid as to squander its remaining diminishing market share by killing off its one consistently popular recurring character.
Please don't tell me I'm failing to maintain a proper suspension of disbelief, I'm not familiar with the tropes of comic-book writing, or I'm "failing to enjoy the show for what it is." With the possible exception of Sylar, who might be showing the tiniest degree more depth than most of the characters whose company we're forced to endure, enjoying this last show for "what it is" requires either a pre-frontal lobotomy or two robots and a janitor at the bottom of the screen.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
And that was just one huge cavalcade of vomit. Do you take time to enjoy anything in life?
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Things that can be enjoyed for more than ironic value? Yeah, I do. So, were there tiny robots and a janitor on your screen?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Well I and many others thoroughly enjoy Heroes for more then just "ironic" value but because A) we actually connect to and like genuinely some of the characters (seasons 1,2: Hiro, 3 the turtle closely followed by Hiro then Sylar), the special effects, that there's powers at work in a much more "loose" world that so far hasn't verged on Magic or Galactic super villains yet and at least the characters are capable of being human and as such doing stupid things.
Whether the plot makes sense or not is irrelevent as I am capable of suspending my disbelief for a soft science fiction show about people with mutant powers, where pretty much any situation in theory can be resolved by any plot convenient power gets boring, its nice that they DONT resolve everything through any plot convenient mugguffin.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I'll try to put this reasonably.
First, I liked Season 1 very much. It had themes that resounded, characters I liked, and a plot that, while mysterious, a) made a certain amount of sense, and b) treated the viewer who asked basic, simple questions about what was going to happen next to rewarding answers. Watching a somewhat downtrodden office worker discover both his powers and his capacity for heroism was exciting. The ironic vulnerability of a character who could seemingly recover from any injury was poignant. Isaac Mendez was brutally murdered just when he was turning his life around; it was genuinely tragic, and it meant something. The strained, yet loving relationship between the Patrelli brothers drove them both in believable ways.
Being a "soft science fiction show about people with mutant powers" gives a show a right, having identified yourself as such, to expect people to come into it with a suspension of disbelief- to the point that they accept that events are happening in a world where people have superhuman powers. But it makes it all the more important that the people be believable characters you can identify with, and having given yourself such breadth in what "can" happen, you really ought to use that breadth to engage plots and themes that will be rewarding. It never gives you the right to offer characters and plots that are cardboard.
I don't identify with these characters anymore because they keep doing the same stupid things over and over, rushing off half-cocked without getting or exchanging necessary information, gathering resources or allies, taking into consideration their past experiences. When that's the kind of action that drives more than half the sequences in the show, it becomes painful to watch. You can make an interesting show in which people consider the options at hand and choose what seems to be the best course, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly. It can be very effective to be able to say "In that situation, I would have done the same (wrong) thing", or to have the characters do something the viewer wouldn't have considered but that is consistent with their internal logic, or even to succeed because they've learned to work well together as a team.
Most of these characters refuse to learn from their experiences. They don't grow like good characters do. They change their minds and their motivations in an instant based on the dictates of the plot. They rush to get into a fight with friends who helped them to save the world without wondering why they're on opposite sides in one scene, and then accept unquestioningly the counsel of people who have plotted mass-murder as reason to turn 180 degrees in another.
Whole scenes read like outlines, like Claire's "bonding" with Elle, or Maya's "You're a monster" to Mohinder. If it's obvious when a scene begins where it's going to end, you damn well better get the audience there in style; Heroes is rapidly losing the sense that it has the wherewithal to do so, treating rote scenes as just that.
There are fleeting moments that make me want to hope. Matt's conversations with Daphne in the airport in the previous episode were the first time in several shows I actually felt something during an exchange between two characters. And that Sylar probably saved Nathan's life was the first time in a while that maybe, just maybe, someone hadn't accepted another character's shpiel whole hog for once. Though that moment was somewhat tarnished by Pa Patrelli's "He shouldn't have survived falling seven stories" comment, a comment which even a mediocre writer would use to indicate Paterlli's suspicion of his new convert, but which I suspect in this case (time will tell) served merely to deliver information to the audience.
The show has become shallow and impatient, digging up dead characters and forgetting living ones for its own convenience; giving characters superhuman abilities and having them fail to use simple human ones.
"Many others" may enjoy Heroes, but the viewership is steadily dropping, and a fairly consistent 2/3 of those who leave feedback on a 1-star Amazon.com review of the Season 2 DVD mark it as "helpful", which strongly suggests a great number of people used to like Heroes.
Do you understand where I'm coming from?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
No, I believe your overly critical. Viewership "steadily" dropping? Proof beyond your gut feeling? Your critical of nearly every little scene that may or may not fitting right despite that very scene being important to a lead up to the very scenes you may or may not like. People have been bagging on consistently during Season 2 thats its too slow and now its trying to speed things up thas not good enough either.
Season 1 was good for season 1, we don't like having to have to revisit everyone trying to learn to use their powers.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
You know, it's okay for someone to have different standards for their media. I'm actually a hair's breadth away from looking at it the way Sterling does, but I view it like I view the Dodgers; no matter how bad they get, I will continue to watch, almost as if in appreciation for the good times.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
You are acting like the only problem season 2 had was that it was too slow. That was the least of its problems.
Season 1 highest rating was 16 million viewers. Season 2 debut was 13.9 million viewers. Season 3 on October 6 was 8.2 million viewers.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: No, I believe your overly critical. Viewership "steadily" dropping? Proof beyond your gut feeling? Your critical of nearly every little scene that may or may not fitting right despite that very scene being important to a lead up to the very scenes you may or may not like. People have been bagging on consistently during Season 2 thats its too slow and now its trying to speed things up thas not good enough either.
Season 1 was good for season 1, we don't like having to have to revisit everyone trying to learn to use their powers.
Now I will put this less reasonably.
Yes, ratings for Heroes are falling "beyond my gut feeling".
quote:Reality-FreeRatings for NBC's Heroes are falling each and every week. The most recent episode was down 11% from the previous week's numbers.
No, I am not being "overly critical". Season 2 showed quite clearly that "Heroes" is perfectly capable of spending weeks on plot elements that it will then abandon or forget. Recognizing that it is likely to continue to do so is not "overly critical"; showing unwarranted faith that it won't do so again is granting a fanboyish level of devotion. I don't care that there's a terrific imaginary episode that ties everything together in three weeks; my criticism is of the one we're dealing with right now. The one that on its present ratings course may not see Season 4.
And if you were paying the slightest bit of attention, you would have noticed that I've said neither that the pace of the action was the problem, nor that they should revisit the Heroes' discovery of their powers.
Pace is not the problem, and it's unfortunate that Kring seems to think that it is. You can take time for scenes with fully-realized characters speaking thoughtful dialogue, in fact you should in order to moderate fast-paced action scenes. But if your dialogue is crap,
(CLOSE CAPTION FOR THE CRITICISM IMPARED: A GREAT DEAL OF THE DIALOGUE IN "HEROES" IS CRAP)
while moving slowly will bore, the only saving grace of picking up the pace is that you go through crap quickly, which is not an improvement.
So, to sum up:
Yes, I am critical of many scenes in Heroes: because they're atrocious. Because they lose nothing for being condensed into eight-minute summaries. Because they show no understanding of things that have happened before. And unless you can offer a convincing argument otherwise- unless you can actually address the criticisms offered- spare me!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:
Season 1 was good for season 1, we don't like having to have to revisit everyone trying to learn to use their powers. [/QB]
You say that as though they KNOW how to use their powers. Not once in the last 2 seasons have I said to myself "You know, I would do the same thing in that situation" or even "Wow. I hadn't thought of that. That's BETTER than what I would have done". That is how you know a show has some problems.
"Suspension of disbelief" is meant for the Sci-fi/Fantasy aspects of a piece of fiction, not for the personalities of the characters.
In the presence of good characters and/or writing devices, I'm actually surprisingly good at tuning out my doubts (considering my personality). I just can't lose myself in these characters anymore though. I can't empathize with them in the slightest. The characters should drive the story, not the other way around.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Sterling, those were some great posts! Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared: You know, it's okay for someone to have different standards for their media. I'm actually a hair's breadth away from looking at it the way Sterling does, but I view it like I view the Dodgers; no matter how bad they get, I will continue to watch, almost as if in appreciation for the good times.
Ditto (except replace Dodgers with Brewers). Sure, it's not the best show ever, but that's never stopped me from enjoying television before (I'm looking at you, ST:VOY...).
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Whether the plot makes sense or not is irrelevent
Uh huh.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Since its a show about people with super powers the plot will hence almost never make sense or if it does its usually because of said powers, thus don't watch for the plot.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Lol.
It is easy enough to have a show with superpowers that has a plot that makes sense, and does not confuse and frustrate people out of watching it. In large part, season one was this show.
People who try to tell you that you SHOULD be enjoying a show but your problem is that you have to criticize the plot for not making sense are pretty neck-deep in fanboyism. People who tell you that your problem is that you aren't shutting your brain off and trying to ignore the power creep and plot holes because that's what you should do to enjoy the show? Well, that's nigh incurable. I recommend amputation.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its not a matter of fanboyism, its a matter of enjoying a show, an ability that seems as rare as the powers in the show it seems on this forum.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
Enjoying a bad show is no virtue.
No, not even when that show is genre.
And Heroes is now a bad show.
You start a thread on Firefly, and you will find that almost to a person, everyone who dislikes Heroes will say that they really enjoyed Firefly. Because Firefly had intelligent and enjoyable charaters, dialogue and plot. Heroes is just about 0 for 3 there, with an extra -1 for plot.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote:ST:VOY
Is a really good example, actually. The other day I was watching that episode where the ship got torn apart and everyone was blinded and died - it was brilliant and probably what the show should have been. But when they hit the reset button, I realised that I wouldn't have enjoyed the show half as much if it had been that show. Or rather, that that show is Battlestar Galactica (which I also love) and ST:VOY is something lightweight and fun, which I enjoy. And that's okay. If someone wants to make a Heroes-esque show which is dark and accurate and makes sense all the time, then I'll watch and love, but for completely different reasons.
Having said that, I do agree Heroes needs to up its game - but I still think it's salvagable.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Yes it is still very salvageable. But I don't think it will be salvaged. The writers have shown us time and time again that they are clueless.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Even I think the show could probably be salvaged- but not the way they're going.
It occurred to me today that the reason for the silly Elle-Claire encounter may have largely been that, for all the melodrama and action whirling around Claire, the writers realized that they hadn't actually done anything to get her involved in the main plotline. Which is another suggestion to me that "pacing" is not this show's big problem, per se.
And to be clear, I don't want the show to become "dark", but I do want the writers to take their jobs seriously. It's better to not show characters being killed, for instance, than for the audience to be able to immediately and accurately predict whether this particular "death" should be believed or not. (Originating in Season 2 seems to be a death sentence.) Hiro and Ando are the lightest part of the show, but aside from their own episodes of "we do what we're told for no particularly good reason" disease and the mild annoyance of "you killed me in the future, I'm in a snit", I'd much sooner spend time with them than with the ever-raging angst of Claire.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: Just watched the latest episode on Netflix.
"I needed help, so the best thing I could think of to do is to break into your house and assault you and your family."
"Well, that seems reasonable. Let's fly cross-country together, and have a bonding moment on a plane that shows the writers think a human being can serve as a grounding device. Then we can look for help for no good reason from an enormous secretive organization; it's not like anything like that has ever gone wrong before."
"Oh no! Someone we both know and care about has been thrown out a window! Maybe we should back up and find out what happened in there before we rush into the bowels of the enormous secretive organization!"
"Are you kidding? The show is an hour long, and this plot doesn't have time to stop for contemplative, potentially non-suicidal acts! Do you know what might happen if I take an hour to find out what Peter has to say?"
"Uh, no..."
"Me neither! And I'm not going to find out, either! (rushes inside)"
...Meanwhile...
Daphne and Matt are gruesomely killed. Audience laughs a hearty laugh at the idea we're supposed to believe this for even as long as it takes the special effects to kick in. Matt's mind-reading abilities are thwarted by a plot device.
Mohinder continues his journey towards the Dark Side. Audience wonders how this could have happened to this character, and then remembers that Mohinder hasn't been so much a character as a Plot Device Execution Machine since Season 2.
Nathan Petrelli contemplates the idea of actually using his powers as an elected official of high office to accomplish his goals rather than rushing off like a bull in a china shop, then remembers Elle's admonishment about the dangers of contemplative, non-suicidal acts and announces his intention to rush off to his cipher-like love interest. She, having been drugged and chained to a table as a result of his last great idea, demands to tag along for this one.
Hiro follows in Matt's footsteps and takes part in the "Anyone Can Be Isaac Mendez" workshop. As he falls into a vision-inducing coma, Ando asks if he'll wake up and urgently shouts Hiro's name. Audience reassures Ando that the show would never be quite so stupid as to squander its remaining diminishing market share by killing off its one consistently popular recurring character.
Please don't tell me I'm failing to maintain a proper suspension of disbelief, I'm not familiar with the tropes of comic-book writing, or I'm "failing to enjoy the show for what it is." With the possible exception of Sylar, who might be showing the tiniest degree more depth than most of the characters whose company we're forced to endure, enjoying this last show for "what it is" requires either a pre-frontal lobotomy or two robots and a janitor at the bottom of the screen.
Sterling, that was awesome. More entertaining than the episode.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Thank you, romanylass. (And you, Corwin.)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Two of the head writers for the show, and also co-executive producers for the show, have been fired.
NBC didn't like the direction the show was going in. Kring apparently agreed. The rest of the Volume has already been written. "Villains" ends in December. When the show picks back up with "Fugutives," it'll be with new writers.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I think Kring is half the problem.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well maybe we're halfway there then. Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
I, personally like Heroes and I don't focus so much on individual episodes plots as I do the overall story. I think the overall story line is quite evolved and engaging. Of course that's just my opinion. I don't understand why you'd waste time being critical on the computer when you could just turn the channel....it's so much easier. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Being critical about heroes is only wasting time insofar as discussing anything you care about is wasting time.
The deal here is that probably most of the people in this thread (I will include myself in this, too) are people who care about heroes, who believe it to have potential, but are annoyed that all this potential is being squandered by terrible writing and frequently confusing scrambling retcon of everybody's personalities, motivations, and behaviors.
I want heroes to succeed because I like the idea behind this show and I would like the show to convince other producers to try this kind of stuff, rather than end up wanting to avoid the genre because of the example Heroes set.
But right now they have this frustrating inability to not write a season that sucks so there is consternation! ire! and people making fun of bad writing.
quote:Big shakeup on the staff of NBC's "Heroes" came down on Sunday with the axing of co-exec producers Jesse Alexander and Jeph Loeb.
Both scribe-producers had been with the show since its first season and were known to have led the day-to-day production operation under the direction of creator/exec producer Tim Kring.
"Heroes," produced by Universal Media Studios, has struggled in the ratings its third season. It's understood that Alexander and Loeb were let go because of Peacock execs' frustration with the creative direction of the show. The show is also said to have been grappling with hefty budget overruns this season, that are going well beyond its already sizable $4 million per-seg pricetag.
Reps for NBC and UMS declined comment. (Variety.com)
Long overdue but thanks guys
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Its not a matter of fanboyism, its a matter of enjoying a show, an ability that seems as rare as the powers in the show it seems on this forum.
If the meat is rotten, I'm going to roll my eyes at anyone who is telling me that my problem is that I can't just turn off my tongue and try to enjoy eating it.
Likewise with a show. This plot is lolworthy.
Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
I just wish it'd stop going up against Monday Night Football.....I keep having to miss it while I watch the game. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
The thing, Samp, is that based on the interviews I've seen, the problem is with Kring's creative direction. He really doesn't understand the genre.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by All4Nothing: I just wish it'd stop going up against Monday Night Football.....I keep having to miss it while I watch the game.
YES.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: The thing, Samp, is that based on the interviews I've seen, the problem is with Kring's creative direction. He really doesn't understand the genre.
I see two options at this point:
1) By getting rid of people like Loeb, whose work on the Ultimates is getting no love from most people I know, they can start going lightly on the comic-bookery of the tv show and temper it with some dramatic coherency. I think heroes will fail as a "comic book tv series" and succeed as "a tv series that deals with comic book stuff realistically."
alternately
2) This won't work, Kring is the problem, and the show will die.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Update: Heroes may survive by cannibalizing the corpse of Pushing Daisies to reconquer lost creative nutrients.
nom nom nom
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Blech, I would pick Pushing Daisies over Heroes any day.
Posted by Slim (Member # 2334) on :
Why do I like Heroes? Interesting unasked question!
Talking with my best friend, he likes this season better than the first because the first season spent too much time introducing all sorts of new characters and their powers. Now its all action.
My Dad didn't ever like Heroes because it has always been too "soap opera-y." One of my sisters didn't like it because Clair is "too whiny."
But why do I like it? Lots of reasons... the stories... the powers... the action... how even though everything is disconnected, they are all really connected... how they are all just regular people trying to cope with change.
I'm not really persuaded by people's complaints. Heroes is the only show I watch on TV besides The Simpsons. I watch Terminator online, but other than that, I don't think there's anything good on. So maybe I'm just happy with what I have? I also thought Star Wars episodes 1-3 were as good as 4-6. Perhaps I am an oddball? But I don't care. I say, "Bring on more Heroes!"
And to comment on the actual episodes: So they got both halves of the formula, but it still needs to be tested? Isn't this supposedly the formula they used on Nathan and the Nikkis?
And Mr. Petrelli says his plan isn't to give super-powers to everyone. Then what is his plan? Is he lying? Or was Adam right when he said the most likely person to give everyone powers was Mrs. Petrelli? I'm still suspicious of her.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:So maybe I'm just happy with what I have? I also thought Star Wars episodes 1-3 were as good as 4-6. Perhaps I am an oddball?
Yup!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Heroes is the only show I watch on TV besides The Simpsons. I watch Terminator online, but other than that, I don't think there's anything good on. So maybe I'm just happy with what I have? I also thought Star Wars episodes 1-3 were as good as 4-6. Perhaps I am an oddball?
I think it just sounds like you're the kind of person who, once he decides he likes something, continues to believe he likes it even after it's changed into something unrecognizable.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The "stockholm syndrome" subset of Heroes fans. Season one gets 'em, and then they didn't even admit that season two was pretty lame, they think it was fine.
Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
I kinda liked season two actually. That's probably cause I'm caught up in Hiro's inability to use his time abilities to fix everything. I kinda like cheering for the underdog who should actually be the only dog left on the porch. Plus I really enjoyed the ending last season. This season, I've missed way too many episodes to have a valid opinion about. That MNF thing gets me everytime.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Nice episode, but how the heck did Arthur get to Africa!? And why didn't utsutu know held be coming?
Hiro! Freeze time damnit! Freeze time already! We want you to KEEP your powers!
I wonder if the revelation about Linderman was more about Linderman wanting to keep Arthur from eventually doing away with him then actually because he had some form of a conscience remaining?
Interesting that Adam was mentioned... or was he? Who else was from Montreal?
Now the question is did Sylar recognize Elle when they met again earlier in the season or second season?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Mr Patrelli got all of Peter's powers. Peter had Hiro's. The guy can do just about anything he wants.
I didn't care for the episode that much, but I pretty much knew from the previews that I wouldn't. I get bored with their glimpses backwards. I want to move forward.
The end did keep me on pins and needles, though. I hope Hiro didn't lose his powers! And poor African Isaac. Painting the future is a deadly power in this show.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I loved this episode! :-)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Aw I liked Usutu. I finally remember where I saw him before this; he played the bartender in Blood Diamond.
I missed some of it, but I'll watch it tomorrow. I read some spoilers, and I won't say what is going to happen, since we haven't yet had spoilers in this thread, but what's to come is pretty interesting.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Usutu was one of the only cool new characters imo.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Nathan and Peter interacting is one of my favorite parts of the show, so I loved the episode. I thought I remembered a bit more condescention on Nathan's part toward Peter, but hey, we were ret conning so Seasons 1 and 3 make sense. I can live with that.
I loved that Arthur treated Angela about like Noah treated his wife in the begining. Don't like what I just did? Just remember something else. Plus, it's always nice to see The Haitain again. How a man can just stand still and look so menacing is beyond me.
Zachary Quinto is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors. Everything he did was wonderful, and it was nice to see Kristen Bell get to play off someone on her level.
As for the end, I think I finally understand what Molly meant about the dark man who could see her when she tried to look for him. I had assumed it was Parkman's dad, but I don't think he was it.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I forgot that Noah is evil.
For the most part the episode was a waste of time, but whatever. It was alright.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I thought it was a fantastic episode. Yes, it was continuity porn, but it tied things together.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Great episode! Not sure they couldn't have done this in the normal flow of time (hehe, what's that in Heroes?!), but I'll settle for flashbacks from the past to explain a lot of what's going on. Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I liked my version of how Arthur discovered his time manipulation better.
It's possible that Arthur might not be able to take Hiro's power since he already has it. That moment of surprise when Arthur is wondering what went wrong might just buy Hiro enough time to jump away. Of course, it wouldn't be long till Arthur realizes WHY nothing happened (if this crack-pot theory comes to pass), and why his prey suddenly disappeared from within his grasp. How would two time travelers even fight?
One thing I would like to know is... Why wasn't "Tell Nathan the truth" an option? Why didn't Angela even SUGGEST it?!?! I mean hell, they didn't even have to tell him ALL of it. They could have just shown Linderman healing someone and that probably would have sold Nathan right there. If not, then a little embellishment would almost definitely seal the deal.
In other news, I've started a fund raiser for the "Pay for Hiro's Brain transplant" foundation. Donations can be made to...
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
To be fair the show has given plenty of evidence that when caught my surprise even immortal badasses have trouble with their powers.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
Arthur is a real scumbag to want to kill his son to protect his own interests. Why not lock him up on level 5? Tell him the score, or a version of it. See if he wants to play ball. After all, he has no clue about any of that stuff.
Or, since he has the "make people believe things" power, why not just mind-force Nathan into backing off on the investigation!
And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
Of course Angela is dumb enough to not even look at the body herself.
I was surprised that Trevor's power was finger-bullets or something. I had figured his power was to look all emo.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You don't lock up an Arthur Petrelli. You put him down like any dangerous animal. And if you have the opportunity to and you don't seize it, you bear responsibility for all the future blood he spills.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
I think he meant locking up Nathan as opposed to killing him.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
It could be a more developed version of Peter's in the same way that Matt Parkman's power turned out to be able to do more than just read minds.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: Or, since he has the "make people believe things" power, why not just mind-force Nathan into backing off on the investigation!
The same reason that the Haitian couldn't make Nathan forget that he saw his father dying on the floor.
The writers have not figured out how to write a good plot that involves the characters using their powers remotely intelligently.
So they have their lame plot, and the characters use their powers only when it is required to make that plot crank along.
Was there ever a reason that Nathan was seeing visions of Linderman? That accomplished one tiny plot point, and then it was totally dropped, and no one thought about it again. Same with Nathan's religious convictions. The writers have just forgotten about them.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
I think this has been mentioned, but there was a series in the graphic novels about Linderman and Arthur. This particular comic sheds some light on how Arthur is acting in the show:
quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared: I think he meant locking up Nathan as opposed to killing him.
That's why he had Angela repeat "Nathan has to die?"
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:Was there ever a reason that Nathan was seeing visions of Linderman?
yes, Maury Parkman was inducing the hallucination in order to manipulate Nathan. That was covered pretty well.
This last episode had a very "Company Man" feel to it. And I like the fact that they're not afraid to kill a character. That's part of what made the first season so powerful. But at this point there's a core group that seems off limits for killing, and I think that adds to the feeling of predictability, even though the show really isn't that predictable.
Also, on the subject of the writers trying to deal with the characters' powers, this reminds me of trying to play dungeon master to a bunch of high level D&D characters. I've never met anyone who can really do it justice. So I give the writers some slack.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
This episode rewrote everything so it makes less sense than it did before.
Sylar and Elle fought a while back and yet made no indication that they knew each other.
They threw any sense the Noah/Sylar relationship had out the window. Their new history completely changes how we're supposed to see their present relationship and it just doesn't work. Noah practically created that monster, yet he has had no guilt about it.
The story with Meredith was a waste of time. Nothing really happened except that we found out her brother is Flint.
The Petrelli story just didn't really make much sense.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
The Petrelli stuff makes perfect sense. It tied it together nicely for me.
I didn't get anything out of the Meredith thing either, except that she's mad at the company for taking Clair from her (and the near miss of Claire and the burning train was just serendipitous irony)
You're right about Noah and Sylar. A couple of episodes ago Noah was talking about what a monster Sylar is, but that wouldn't have made sense knowing what we know now. One point however, (if they bother to deal with it) is that people who do evil are always able to rationalize it away. Perhaps Noah re-rationalized from "learning what we can from him is worth creating a monster" to "he was always a monster, so getting him to kill wasn't really my fault."
As for Sylar and Elle, I don't remember them being together more recently. That could just be a senior moment on my part, but some frame of reference would be helpful.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
When Sylar broke out. They had a big show down. He didn't seem to know anything about her.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
"The ability to transfer power from one vessel to another is extremely rare."
This line is just ridiculous. On the show this is the MOST common power. We already have three people that can do it.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: "The ability to transfer power from one vessel to another is extremely rare."
This line is just ridiculous. On the show this is the MOST common power. We already have three people that can do it.
To be fair, at the time this was supposed to take place Peter hadn't manifested any ability and Noah didn't seem to know much about the upper levels of the organization (no knowledge of Linderman, for example).
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Eh, if you think about it, there are tons of plot holes. But at least on the surface this episode was decent.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Yeah, what are we doing thinking about it?
What makes him think it's so rare then? He has no reason to think it is any more rare than flying, future painting, fire starting, or healing.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Well for starters we know logically that having worked in the Company for years he has undoubtably come across or know of possibly hundreds if not thousands of specials, the percentage of those who can transfer power that he knows of his very very very small.
This to me is simple logic and understandable in CONTEXT of the Show's Universe and not just what we the audience saw.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: And when did Arthur get the "grab everyone's power" power anyway? Here apparently his power is just the same as the Parkman's.
It could be a more developed version of Peter's in the same way that Matt Parkman's power turned out to be able to do more than just read minds.
Let us not forget Gabriel's power to take people's powers as well. It sure seems to run in the family, especially since Nathan is the reject who had to get injected to get powers. But yeah, Peter takes powers through empathy, Gabriel through logic - maybe Arthur's is some combination/evolution/result-after-years-of-practice combination of the two sides?
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
This was... Better than some. But I have to confess it felt more like "retconning" than actually filling in holes in the past. They're continuing to try to make Elle into a likable person rather than the sadistic spoiled brat she's always shown herself to be in the past without any particular explanation (they've made a pretty good case as to why she'd be a sadistic spoiled brat, but not why she went from sympathetic to nasty.) And some of Angela's lines near the end were absolute howlers.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Ah, right right... I didn't think about how they are all related. So maybe at the time it was fairly unprecedented.
That was just one line though. The rest of the episode still made as little sense as it usual.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I don't see how this casts doubt on the Noah/Sylar relationship. Yes, we now know that the company had a large hand in pushing him to become a serial killer, but it seemed clear to me that Noah had already made up his mind about Sylar.
When he had Elle push him into killing again, it was obvious that he considered it a certainty that Sylar would kill again. The string of murders that happened after that would be nothing more than confirmation of his preexisting beliefs.
Or am I missing the point and there's something else that makes their later interactions unbelievable.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
He HATED Sylar for targeting his Clair Bear, yet he never once felt any guilt for creating him. Never considered that his is at least partly responsible. The way Noah acts around him now is ridiculous when you see their past.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Hes deflecting, common psycological response out of guilt, hes angry at himself hates himself and is blaming sylar for it.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Well, Noah also turned against his own company (to which we see him being unquestioningly loyal in this episode) as soon as *they* target Claire, so at least it's not entirely inconsistent with his messed up logic system.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
And that's what it always comes down to. These characters are stupid.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And that's what it always comes down to. These characters are stupid.
And now we're down to something that everyone can agree with.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
The problem is not that the characters are stupid. The problem is that they're characterized as smart, but act stupidly. Claire is simply characterized as a cheerleader, not some super genius.
You have, however, a professor, a congressional candidate, a genre-savvy comic book reader, et cetera, all behaving very stupidly. So much stupidity in the space of a single hour overwhelms.
It's not only that characters behave stupidly. Their behavior is erratic. Take Hiro for example: his control of his power fluctuates from episode to episode. When Knox tells him that he has to kill Ando in order to join Pinehearst, Hiro immediately, without hesitation, comes up with a plan to fool the speedster and the person who can feel his fear.
When Hiro goes to catch Usutu, however, he falls for the same trick twice, despite the cool level-headedness he displayed earlier.
So, basically, what it comes down to is that the behavior of the characters does not follow any logical or coherent pattern or history. It only serves the needs of the story. And, sometimes, that story is bad.
Really, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. This is why we had to endure Hiro losing his powers in the first season, and the "romance" in Edo in the second.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Hiro's stupidity bugs me the most. No avid comic book reader would be as clueless as he is.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well, not about using super powers...
Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
Maybe the Hatian's mucking about in HRG's mind in season one effaced some of the Sylar memories...?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
What gets me is how Angelica who used to be so hard and impressive turned out to be a pushover.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It's the other way around. Angelica, who used to be a pushover, is now so hard and impressive.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
A good episode I think.
Elle and Sylar are, I think, the two best characters, or at least the best acted characters, in the entire show, and anything between them is good television, though I think the writing was a stretch, even for this show. She goes from wanting to mow him down to being his electroshock tutor? In like an hour? His breakthrough I can totally see. He's been headed for it for awhile now, even though I think it makes the whole "hunger" thing with Peter totally stupid and makes even less sense. But her transformation was just too sudden. Whatever, I guess you have to condense it.
It was cool how they showed the teams at the end, even if it's pretty weird that Niki III (whatever her name is) all of a sudden joined the other side, and especially since I don't think Elle is bad, and Sylar could really be anywhere in between as far as which side he's on. And Daphne, whose side is she on? Some of those characters I believe are firmly rooted, but half of them could go either way, so it seemed strange to place them all on either side as if the membership rolls were fixed.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm not sure what to make of Hiro's new storyline. I am, however, extremely pleased they found a 9th Wonders in that comic book shop.
Also, Claire being the catalyst seems to easy and obvious (and thus more likely for the show...). I'd rather it be Ando, because he needs more love.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I somehow knew that when hiro lost his mind we'd be hearing that lovely phrase - Yaa'ta! - sometime soon...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
Well, yes. Kaito would certainly have had access to Claire. It doesn't make it any more fun, though.
It does kind of make one wonder if everyone is going to lose their powers at the eclipse, or just the people who were "given" powers. Then that will make one wonder if the whole thing is cyclical and/or if the catalyst can't just be used all the time anyway. Also...
I think I should stop trying to make this make any sense and wait to see what confusions the writers will heap upon me.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I <3 Hiro
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Okay, but who wrote the 9th Wonders comic?
I'm pretty forgiving to this show, but that stopped me in my tracks.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think Mendez may have written it, it wasn't entirely clear how far ahead he wrote, afterall it his comic book publication? Its not likely but its the simplest solution. That or someone else wrote them.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
We've already seen the last issue (he handed it to that one guy before Sylar got him), so unless they're just keeping back issues on the shelves of every random comic book store it really needs an explanation.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I can't remember - and am a bit too lazy to look it up - but were the 9th Wonder books Hiro and Ando had in the first season in Japanese (at least the covers)?
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Wait, you're asking for continuity between the first and third seasons... of THIS show?
Why did Arthur spare Hiro? Furthermore, why did he leave him his powers? This is, of course, assuming that Arthur is responsible for Hiro's regression.
I can't say that I like how they're whoring out everything that made everyone special. It was bad enough before, but now its over the line. Sylar is now basically Peter v2. Arthur apparently already had Maury's power in addition to the absorption ability.
Arthur can now jump just like Hiro/Peter, and apparently knows about it. He is playing a WAY deeper game than he has to, and I don't understand why!!!
There are officially no interesting characters left.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I think that after a famous comic book writer dies, they would keep back issues of all his comics. Also most comic writers stay issues ahead of their deadlines...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Elle and Sylar are, I think, the two best characters, or at least the best acted characters, in the entire show, and anything between them is good television,
Amen. When we were watching last night, I realized that Gabriel has become my favorite character on the show.
And it's funny... OSC talked about Heroes in his review column at one point, after having seen the first season finale, and he was hoping fervently that they'd leave Sylar dead. And I agreed with him at the time. But what they've done with him is marvelous. He's still not exactly heroic. He's still guilty of many brutal murders. But good and bad actions don't cancel each other out. He might wind up being the most heroic character on the show. He certainly seems to be headed in that direction.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I would think Ando would make far less sense. Kyto would have had access to Claire when she was at Primatech before she was taken by Noah.
Well, yes. Kaito would certainly have had access to Claire. It doesn't make it any more fun, though.
It does kind of make one wonder if everyone is going to lose their powers at the eclipse, or just the people who were "given" powers. Then that will make one wonder if the whole thing is cyclical and/or if the catalyst can't just be used all the time anyway. Also...
I think I should stop trying to make this make any sense and wait to see what confusions the writers will heap upon me.
Well, I have a couple questions about how the eclipse relates to powers and such. First off, if this batch of people got their powers from the eclipse, how does that explain the people with powers that came before? Do they all get powers every time there is an eclipse? And if they lose them now, did they always lose them before, or is this new? And if new, why?
But I do have a theory for how this will resolve some of the more questionable plot problems. Given the current teams and with Hiro out of commission, Arthur really is the most powerful person that we know of on Earth. He can move at will and do more or less whatever he wants, and has to be neutralized: enter the eclipse. But even with him down, how do they act to stop him? I think this is where Peter, out of action for a couple powerless episodes, gets back into play. I think that when everyone else loses their powers, he gets his back, and there will be a midseason finale reckoning of sorts.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
What I want to know is how Ando squeezing Hiro's eye closed made his power work. That's ridiculous. His eye-squeezing is a sign of his concentration.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Maybe it triggered Hiro's reaction? Like some sort of Pavlovian response?
That seemed pretty goofy to me too. I didn't know Hiro had an on/off switch.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Hiro was concentrating on pancakes. Good man.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Waffles.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
That part had me laughing for the rest of the episode.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Arthur isn't really any more powerful than Peter was before. Just smarter... but still not "Smart" unfortunately. There is one very obvious and stupidly easy way to take Arthur out of the picture. The Haitian.
Just get him chasing someone via jumps (most likely Hiro, though maybe Sylar if he ever picks up Teleportation) and end it with a jump to within the proximity of the Haitian. Preferably into a nice holding cell with only one exit. Temporarily disable him, then shuffle the parts of him off into space or something where he's not likely to regain consciousness for a few billion years. Or better yet, take him back in time (still unconscious) to when the Vortex guy made the hole in that one house and let him fall in. Problem (most likely) solved. Or a million other possible solutions that these characters have NEVER thought of...
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Angela would be capable of killing her husband, but her ability to see the future will always hinder her decision making abilities. How can you ever decide the right course of action when everything leads to negative consequences? The rest of us just deal with them after the fact. She's tempted to head them off ahead of time.
I don't think Peter or Nathan have it in them to kill their own father. He's not a sociopath out to destroy the planet. He thinks he's fixing something. I'm still a little fuzzy on what, but he sees what he's doing as right, and some of that confidence has to carry over to the people who love you.
Sylar's the most likely candidate. He's close enough to be a problem, looking to be the good guy, but still possessed of a killer instinct. When it's obvious that Arthur is doing wrong and can't be saved, I fully expect Sylar to be the one to destroy him.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
This show has really become one of those guilty pleasures. I keep watching it even though it is poorly written, inconsistent, and fast approaching cheesy. But maybe it's the cheese factor that's appealing to me. I've always had a soft spot for cheesy.
So, just off the top of my head:
1. What is up with Arthur, Peter, and Syler's powers? Do they have the same one and each has used it in a different way? Did Peter take Syler's power or his hunger? (If they already shared the same power)
2. How do the heroes come into their powers? It seems very inconsistent. Claire had hers from birth or she wouldn't have survived the fire when she was 1 or 2. Peter was seeing visions before the eclipse, a power he got from his mom. So what did the eclipse do? Anything?
3. If Angela can see the future, why did she try to destroy New York in season 1? Are the alternatives worse? (Actually, a maybe. So far the subsequent seasons have been batting worse futures.)
4. Will Nikki clone die already? Please?
5. Oh, and Mohinder? Pretty Please?
6. What did Arthur do to Hiro? What aspect of his power turned him into a 10-year-old boy and why did he think that would be a useful thing to do? Or if he got stopped doing whatever he was actually trying to do (that's the impression I got), then what was he actually trying to do? That whole thing really confused me and while it was somewhat amusing, it is also annoying.
7. Is there anything consistent about the jumping to and from the future thing? I mean, prophecies and time travel are always a bit difficult to manage plotwise, but there don't seem to be any rules. Future Claire shot future Peter in the CHEST? He had his powers then, so what made her think that would work? Or is this going to turn out to be another one of those really corny, "I was only making it look like I was trying to kill you."
Thins I Like:
1. Though I hate to admit it, because I also wanted him to stay dead at the end of season one, I like Syler/Gabriel. I find his character transformation to be one of the few believable things in the show. I also respect them for pulling off the monumental feat of turning a ruthless serial killer into a decent man.
2. Hiro...although I really hope he doesn't stay 10 for long. I actually really want to see him move towards the future version we've seen.
3. Ando...I loved how he pinched Hiro's forehead to make him teleport them.
4. Matt. I've always had a soft spot for him. I hope Daphne's for real.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: There is one very obvious and stupidly easy way to take Arthur out of the picture. The Haitian.
Considering the part the Haitian played in taking him out the first time, you'd think that he would have already had him killed by now.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 1. What is up with Arthur, Peter, and Syler's powers? Do they have the same one and each has used it in a different way? Did Peter take Syler's power or his hunger? (If they already shared the same power)
I figure that they have similar powers, but not identical. Arthur takes powers and the source loses them. Peter takes powers unconsciously without affecting the source. Gabriel takes powers consciously without necessarily affecting the source.
Of course, it may be that they have the same power, and that Peter and Gabriel just haven't figured out how to remove the powers of others yet.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 2. How do the heroes come into their powers? It seems very inconsistent. Claire had hers from birth or she wouldn't have survived the fire when she was 1 or 2. Peter was seeing visions before the eclipse, a power he got from his mom. So what did the eclipse do? Anything?
I suspect we'll find out next week. As far as Claire goes, both her mother and her uncle had fire powers. It could be that she was born with invulnerability as an adaptation to protect her from her mother during pregnancy? It could also be that she got the invulnerability from Nathan. He isn't invulnerable exactly the way she is, but how did he heal from the gunshot wounds? Linderman wasn't really there.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 3. If Angela can see the future, why did she try to destroy New York in season 1? Are the alternatives worse? (Actually, a maybe. So far the subsequent seasons have been batting worse futures.)
Maybe she did it to try and prevent the future we're seeing now. The one with powers all over the place. Maybe the writers just liked Watchmen a whole lot.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 4. Will Nikki clone die already? Please?
5. Oh, and Mohinder? Pretty Please?
Mohinder, definitely. Ugh. Tracey... well, it'll be interesting to see. Maybe she's playing Arthur.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 6. What did Arthur do to Hiro? What aspect of his power turned him into a 10-year-old boy and why did he think that would be a useful thing to do?
He was wiping Hiro's mind. He got back to when Hiro was 10. At least that's how it seemed to me.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: 7. Is there anything consistent about the jumping to and from the future thing? I mean, prophecies and time travel are always a bit difficult to manage plotwise, but there don't seem to be any rules. Future Claire shot future Peter in the CHEST? He had his powers then, so what made her think that would work? Or is this going to turn out to be another one of those really corny, "I was only making it look like I was trying to kill you."
I have the same questions.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wasn't the Hatian around when Claire shot Peter in the chest? I know at the very least the Haitian was there later and that's why Peter never woke up.
quote:I suspect we'll find out next week. As far as Claire goes, both her mother and her uncle had fire powers. It could be that she was born with invulnerability as an adaptation to protect her from her mother during pregnancy? It could also be that she got the invulnerability from Nathan. He isn't invulnerable exactly the way she is, but how did he heal from the gunshot wounds? Linderman wasn't really there.
Well, Nathan did have Claire's blood injected into him in the second season to reverse the effects of Peter going nuclear. Perhaps that had longer lasting effects. Or perhaps it was repeated.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The Haitian was definitely there when Peter was shot.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I figure that they have similar powers, but not identical. Arthur takes powers and the source loses them. Peter takes powers unconsciously without affecting the source. Gabriel takes powers consciously without necessarily affecting the source.
Of course, it may be that they have the same power, and that Peter and Gabriel just haven't figured out how to remove the powers of others yet.
My speculation. Prior to his "death" Arthur doesn't appear to have had the ability to take peoples powers. His ability was to read and manipulate minds. This is why he and the company were so interested in how Gabriel/Sylar was able to take peoples abilities.
So Arthur studied the tapes of Sylar studying peoples brains and figured our how to the process worked most likely while he was "dead". Arthur's mind reading and manipulating powers allowed him to do the same thing without physically exposing the brain. At the same time he learned he could take peoples powers away using the same mind manipulation powers he used to erase Angela's memories.
This means that when he takes peoples powers away, it leaves a scar that might be healed by Linderman or possibly an injection of Claire's blood. I'm betting that at some point in the next couple of episodes, Peter will be critically injured, Claire will inject him with her blood and much to their surprise his powers will be restored.
I'm guessing that Arthur only figured out that the same brain alterations could be achieved through an empathic connection after he took Peter's powers.
So my best guess is that Peter's underlying power is a kind of psychic empathy, Arthur's underlying power is mind reading and manipulation and Gabriel's underlying power is to understand how power works. Under the proper conditions, all three of these powers allow someone with the genetic mutation to acquire the powers manifested by another mutant.
I'm also betting that Arthur was probing Hiros mind because he suspected that Kaito hid the catalyst in his son. If he was trying to find the catalyst. He didn't want to erase his ability before he understood how the catalyst worked and was certain this wouldn't destroy the catalyst. I'm guessing that Hiro's reversion to being 10 years old is a result of the link between Arthur and him being broken before Arthur had finished scanning his memories and wasn't an intensional act.
Now we'll just wait and see how much I've guessed correctly.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
My theory? Everyone's power is the "same" understanding how something works, however peoples brains are only so capable and 99% of the time can only understand one thing, but some people have a greater range of understanding and can do many things.
But anyways, I believe Arthurs power was close to Peters all along, he was friends with marty or whatever his name was for a while right?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
If you (rabbit) are right then Matt could take powers too. Clair's blood would probably work, or possibly the Haitian could do it.
Just thought of something. If Peter's power is so rare, why did the invisible man say "oh, one of those," (or whatever) when he figured out what his power was?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Rabbit -- The one flaw I see in your theory about Arthur not being able to take powers until after he died is that Adam was definitely afraid of him. He begged him not to do it, that he could be useful to him. As Arthur simply copying his powers would not have hurt him, I have to assume that this was always how his power worked.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Adam could have been afraid of Arthur's mindmanipulating powers and unaware that something more malicious was possible. Adam's ability to heal might have meant that Arthur couldn't erase the memories of his manipulating Adam.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
We still don't know how the Haitian suppresses peoples powers but it does seem to go with his ability to selectively erase memories.
Interestingly, at least thus far the memory loss has been permanent but the loss of powers only lasts as long as they are in proximity to the Haitian. I wonder if the Haitian simply chooses to make the loss of powers temporary of if he doesn't know or isn't able to make the memory loss permanent.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Or maybe Arthur told Adam what he was going to do.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Hmmmm...without Adam's powers he turns to dust. So if Adam had ever come into contact with the Haitian, he would have died?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I'm not sure. The Haitian doesn't take the powers away. He just suppresses them. I suspect that in the presence of the Haitian, Adam would have been vulnerable, but he wouldn't have died.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well, it didn't make sense that he turned to dust, so no use trying to see what the Haitian would do to him.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
And people shooting lightning bolts and going back in time makes more sense?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Fine. Any scifi or fantasy doesn't need any logic. I mean, come on, those genres are for stupid people.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Blayne -
Yeah but generally even within the wacky rules of the show they try and stay consistent (or at least, some shows do).
Rabbit -
Wouldn't it be easier just to assume that Arthur could always steal powers, just like his kids can, and that he stole the psychic power from someone else?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
But then he'd be lying. He can't just lie to everyone, that would be mean...
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Wouldn't it be easier just to assume that Arthur could always steal powers, just like his kids can, and that he stole the psychic power from someone else?
Perhaps, but I don't think that hypothesis fits the data.
First off, Neither Peter nor Gabriel were always capable of getting powers from others. Both of them learned how to do it, although in different ways. This suggests that Arthur also had to learn how to do it -- leaving only the questions how and when.
Second, We know that the company thought it was extremely important to understand how Gabriel was able to transfer powers. If Arthur already knew the answer, why would they find it so important to study the question, even to the point of deliberately creating a homicidal maniac to do it. Bennet says specifically that they are making tapes that will be studied. Perhaps I'm giving the writers too much credit but it seems like there is likely a point to this subplot.
Third, At the time of Arthur's death, Peter's powers hadn't yet manifest. If Arthur's ability to take other's power also hadn't manifest, it would justify Bennet's comment about the power being extremely rare. Once again I may be giving the writers too much credit, but unless my speculation is correct Bennet's comment is such a glaringly obvious error that anyone should be able to pick it up. If this power is so rare, why do we now have three characters who can do it in three different ways.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I should add, I don't think my hypothesis necessarily precludes the possibility that Arthur acquired his psychic power from someone else. I think its common for people to get lucky and be able to do something once only to find they can't repeat it. Maybe acquiring the psychic power made Arthur aware that it was possible even though he didn't understand the process enough to repeat it. That may have been the motivation for studying Gabriel/Sylar.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
This is insane. A few points:
1. About studying Sylar--- they weren't interested in seeing Sylar use his powers, or seeing how he stole abilities. They believed that he had already killed once, but they couldn't "suppress" him unless he was "caught in the act". They goaded him to kill again. And as for capturing him, they tend to try to capture rather than kill --- probably for more reasons than have been revealed. They might have been trying to study the mimicry, but not because they hadn't seen it --- but Arthur probably didn't submit himself to study.
2. Claire shot Peter with the Haitian near, so that he WOULD die.
3. Peter, Gabriel, and the father all have the EXACT same power. Peter and Gabriel were two different types of people, so the power manifested differently. Arthur probably doesn't HAVE to take people's powers to replicate them, he probably just does because he's evil, it makes him feel more "special", or it "defangs" his enemies.
4. The empathy power IS rare, but that doesn't mean that it can't be passed to one's children. Many of the other powers have been shown to manifest more frequently --- flying, visions of the future, immortality. Only one man and his two sons have the empathetic mimicry --- that we know of.
5. If mind reading evolved into "stealing powers", we would have certainly seen it from Maury. If anything, Maury as Arthur's confidant proved that Arthur could replicate a power WITHOUT stealing it from the host.
6. Another point, people think that Arthur took all of Peter's mimic'ed powers, but I don't think that's the case. I think he just took his empathy mimicry. Peter doesn't TAKE people's powers, he just learns how they work in a fashion, like Gabriel does. I think Arthur just already had a pretty heavy repetoire of powers.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Hmmmm...now here's a thought, and this may be giving the writers WAY too much credit and probably isn't true, but I think it would be neat:
What if Arthur didn't actually take Peter's powers? Maybe he just made Peter think he had. He could have used any number of acquired powers to one up Peter and suppress his abilities from manifesting. He was more experienced, after all.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think he did take his powers, and that those powers will come back when the eclipse comes, he'll be one of the very few with powers when everyone else loses theirs.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Arthur definitely took Peter's powers. Including the one to act stupid. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Hmmmm...now here's a thought, and this may be giving the writers WAY too much credit and probably isn't true, but I think it would be neat:
What if Arthur didn't actually take Peter's powers? Maybe he just made Peter think he had. He could have used any number of acquired powers to one up Peter and suppress his abilities from manifesting. He was more experienced, after all.
Peter was hurt when he hit the ground. Yes, Gabriel cushioned it a bit, but he didn't survive it the way he would have had he still had his powers.
Posted by blindsay (Member # 11787) on :
Sylar's power is not the same as Arthur or Peters Power. Here is what they are:
Peter: Peter absorbs a power whether he wants to or not. He does not exactly have to know what the power is or how to use it. If you remember back in the first season he absorbed Invisible Man's power and was using it without realizing it. (Speaking of which, I don't know why he didn't just go into Pinehurst Invisible to check things out first)
Arthur: Arthur is sort of a "Vampire" when it comes to power. He feeds off of other people with powers and absorbs them through touch. He said as much in the latest episode when he was speaking to Sylar.
Sylar: Sylar is the most interesting. Sylar's power is the power of understanding. He can see how things work. That is why he was such a good watch maker, and this was also the reason why he studied the brains of those he killed. I think what he learned in this latest episode was how to understand by studying how the person used the abilities, not how the person's brain worked.
I believe that Sylars power has been strengthened considerably by the power he gained by killing the woman that could tell the history of an object by touching it. Once he touched Elle, it gave him knowledge of her whole history. This enabled him to relate to her and to know what she had gone through, and to understand how to help her with the emotional pain she felt.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:1. About studying Sylar--- they weren't interested in seeing Sylar use his powers, or seeing how he stole abilities. They believed that he had already killed once, but they couldn't "suppress" him unless he was "caught in the act". They goaded him to kill again. And as for capturing him, they tend to try to capture rather than kill --- probably for more reasons than have been revealed. They might have been trying to study the mimicry, but not because they hadn't seen it --- but Arthur probably didn't submit himself to study.
Possible but it pretty much contradicts what was said. No point in arguing about it, we will see what the writers had in mind sooner or later.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Blindsay --- Arthur outright explained Empathy to Sylar. That he can access the power from an emotional level.
Sylar just made analytical connections to people before, not emotional ones. Now, he's able to access his power identically to Peter.
Perhaps Arthur's only letting people THINK he has to touch them. Or perhaps he's incapable of making an emotional connection.
But he obviously knew that Sylar could access his power that way. So at least we know that both Gabriel and Peter have the same power --- AND that Arthur knew it and knew how to access it.
But Arthur stole Peter's power as well, and he still touched and stole powers. Either he can mimic but he can't take away other people's powers without touch, he doesn't want anyone to know that he can, or he isn't capable of an emotional empathy.
Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
I think that Peter, Sylar, and Arthur all have the exact same power. They explained that the power stealing power had to do with empathy. They have to have empathy for the people to get their powers. (Sylar was previously doing it through his knowledge power.)
Peter has so much empathy for everyone around him that he can take all their powers without even having to think about it. Sylar previously had no empathy, so he had to root around in their heads for a while to get it, and now that he is a "good guy" he has enough empathy that he can get the powers a lot easier. Arthur doesn't have much empathy at all, just enough to steal the powers when he touches somebody.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
seems kinda convoluted to me >_<
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
I think they do have the same power and I would say that either they CAN remove powers but don't know it yet OR that the power removal thing is an illusion. Empathic ability has often been used to manipulate others feelings and often powers like these work on an emotional level.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
You know, these ideas seem really cool.
It's a terrible pity that they're in a plot that doesn't make any sense...
I mean, a superhero show with a small set of characters, family members, who possess the same exact nigh-ultimate power, but end up activating and using it through different means because each of them is different in personality and the basic way they work, seems quite interesting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:First off, Neither Peter nor Gabriel
oh no.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Peter .. Gabriel
crap, i can't hold it back, oh god
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
REEEEED RAAIIINN IS COMING DOWNN
REEDDDDD RAIIIIINNNNNN
REEED RAIIN IS POURING DOWN
POURINNNGG DOWN ALL OVERRR MEE
I AM STANDING UP AT THE WATER'S EDGE IN MY DREEEAM
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: We've already seen the last issue (he handed it to that one guy before Sylar got him), so unless they're just keeping back issues on the shelves of every random comic book store it really needs an explanation.
Oh, yes, din'cha know? Isaac made up several issues of 9 Wonders that no one saw before his death, and sent them off to the publisher. Along with the paintings he did that no one had seen or heard of before from last season. Next season, we'll discover the naughty prophetic postcards he made during his spare time.
I am increasingly convinced that trying to follow this show with expectations of consistency or the idea that one can actually make reasonable conclusions about the way anything "works" based on past evidence is a route to madness, or at least disappointment.
And while I agree that Sylar is becoming more interesting, I think it's a matter of relativity. He's the only character who seems to have been plotted on a course with a halfway believable, character-grounded path in mind. The rest of them are turning into a set of excuses for doing what the writers think needs to be done at any particular moment, and worse, I'm not convinced the writers have a really tight and cohesive grasp on where they're going.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I think a big part of Sylar's story being more interesting and believable is the acting. He is a pretty good actor, especially when compared to Claire, Maya and Nikki.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Then why does Arthur's power remove the powers of others when neither of his sons work that way? Or are you suggesting that they can remove the powers of others, but just don't realize it yet?
I think they do have the same power and I would say that either they CAN remove powers but don't know it yet OR that the power removal thing is an illusion. Empathic ability has often been used to manipulate others feelings and often powers like these work on an emotional level.
So Adam's death was psychosomatic? Wow, you're really pushing it, aren't you?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: So Adam's death was psychosomatic? Wow, you're really pushing it, aren't you?
Makes about as much sense to me as it does for him to crumble away the second he can no longer heal himself.
Posted by blindsay (Member # 11787) on :
Arthur did explain to Sylar about his power. The reason I do not believe they have the same power (at least initially) is the hunger. This is what is different between Sylar and Peter. Peter did not have the hunger until he received it from Sylar in the future.
Arthur however seems to have the same hunger as Sylar. He told Sylar that it all had to do with getting more power. As far as I know Peter did not have this hunger. This could have something to do however with the type of personality of each individual
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
I thought that I was the only one who noticed Claire and Nikki's acting. It's like a bad soap opera.
Both of Claire's moms, Nathan, Ma Petrelli, Knox, and Peter faire a little better. But it's still like a cheap cop show on USA.
Mohinder, Arthur, Noah, Elle, and Gabriel are all great actors.
Matt, Daphne, Hiro, and Ando all seem like they belong on a different show ... a sitcom maybe?
I pretend like Maya and . . . her brother never existed. And Peter's Irish girlfriend.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I've really just stopped watching, and I was pretty much the last in my entire peer group. I was about to give up hope on even trying to convince people that the show is a property — a potential — worth saving and perpetuating because everyone's turning against it so harshly and fewer and fewer people even expected the show to survive or recover.
However, even though I think the show's a clownboat-wreck at this point, I am reserving the right to be optimistic.
CASE IN POINT:
1. As we know, coexecutive producers Jeph Loeb and Jesse Alexander were, thankfully, fired from the show. Loeb in particular was a concern: if you look at how dreadful his work has been in the comic book medium, you see a lot of parallels to the elements of the show which are murdering its appeal and cohesiveness.
2. Kring has also said that they'll stop using time travel and seeing the future as plot crutches.
3. Between (1) and (2) you can extrapolate that Kring admits folly in over-comicbooketeering the show.
4. Pushing Daisies got canceled, bringing Bryan Fuller back into the Heroes fold. Fuller is responsible for the best that Heroes has ever attained, and he now may be in a position to save Heroes.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
On a small note, Kring is on record as saying that they leapfrogged over Caitlin, and that they won't do anything to bring her back. Basically, they wrote themselves into a corner and admitted as such.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared: On a small note, Kring is on record as saying that they leapfrogged over Caitlin, and that they won't do anything to bring her back. Basically, they wrote themselves into a corner and admitted as such.
Unless they decide that Caitlin had a heretofore unknown twin (or triplet) sister that suddenly appears out of the blue. I mean, it's not like it's unprecedented or anything...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
It is a sign of how problematic heroes has become that I can't immediately say "pffh, bando, that's ridiculous, like the show would ever do something like that'
Posted by Slim (Member # 2334) on :
It's not just empathy for others. They have to have feelings in return. Ever notice how Arther is always all, "Give your father a hug!"? Okay, Adam is an exception, but everyone else wanted him to touch them.
That was awesome how Sylar was able to share El's power. And then Arther watched the whole thing on his own TV. Hmmm... Just like how they watched him when he killed Frozone... Is there something to the power-transfer Arther hasn't figured out yet?
Poor African Isaac! Just because you can paint the future doesn't make you invulnerable. Just ask the original Isaac. But then, wait! He was in Matt's dream. ...Odd, but cool.
Isaac did the 9th wonders in English. This season takes place, what, six months after the New York incident? Is six months really so long that they would translate his comic and for it to be sold out in Japan? I don't think so.
I like that idea someone had, that Arther was erasing Hiro's memories. The first thing I thought of was "Was Hiro 10 when Kaito was handing over Claire in 'Company Man'?" But the only problem with that is that he turns Hiro into a 10-year old before Mohinder mentions the catalyst.
I love it! "...I think I am the catalyst."
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Pushing Daisies was canceled? Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
quote:Originally posted by Slim:
Isaac did the 9th wonders in English. This season takes place, what, six months after the New York incident? Is six months really so long that they would translate his comic and for it to be sold out in Japan? I don't think so.
My issue isn't with that, it's that if Isaac had seen that far into the future wouldn't he have know that New York wasn't going to blow up? Or at least clued in somebody as to what was going to happen?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Issac couldn't have written it. I don't think the writers are ever going to explain how it was made.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Pushing Daisies was canceled?
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Issac couldn't have written it. I don't think the writers are ever going to explain how it was made.
It was written by Caitlin! Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well at least there is the silver lining of Eli Stone's cancellation.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
What! No, it wasn't. Eli Stone is doing fine, no?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
No.
And why can't Ned touch Pushing Daisies and bring it back to life? Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Okay, I'm sorry, jet fires don't just spontaneously go out once the bad guys have been scared off.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: No.
And why can't Ned touch Pushing Daisies and bring it back to life?
If he did touch it he would be forced to leave the show, or else it would die forever.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: Okay, I'm sorry, jet fires don't just spontaneously go out once the bad guys have been scared off.
No they don't, glad somebody else wondered about that.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Woot, new heroes.
My geuss that something in sunlight is required.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The eclipse wasn't the first time Nathan flew. This show is so inconsistent.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
The eclipse is ridiculous. I'd even buy the eclipse temporarily taking their powers, but come on...isn't anything consistent in this show? Arthur was freaking out on Mohinder. Clearly, this did not happen at any other eclipse.
Daphne on crutches was nice, though. I mean, good story, not nice. Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
No, Daphne on crutches was really lame. What a cliche.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Didn't Sylar do the whole repentance thing last episode? His relationship with Elle was so amazing and now it went really wrong for no reason.
Why is it that I feel like everyone I know can write the show better than trained professionals?
Cmon, bring the show back to it's fundamentals:
1) It is a show about powers - do really cool things. Heroes still succeeds in this.
2) People watch shows to be able to relate to them. Comics, heroes have classically been metaphors for human struggles. Superman is a metaphor for power and powerlessness even with great power. Spiderman for coming of age. Batman, i mean, have you seen the movie?
Where is the depth of Heroes? Each time I walk away from an episode like it was meaningless.
Take Mohinder for example. I would have liked him to have injected himself with powers and then for him to lose himself int he rush. For him to lose his good ethical character bc power corrupts. instead, they decided to take this metaphor to the extreme and actually turn him into a monster. Real subtle guys...
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Total eclipses span about 250km of the globe at any one time.
I kinda liked this episode. Every hero/villian losing their powers when they really needed them. Excellent.
In the very least, all of you who don't like the direction or inconsistencies.....you gotta admit they all looked pretty funny trying to use their powers and having nothing happen.
I mean -
Daphne's father to Matt: Why do you keep leaning your head to the side?
I got such a kick out of those moments that the question pleased me greatly.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Definitely. That was great. It looks much stupider without all the effects.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
It was so awesome seeing Sylar get his ass beaten like the geek he is ^_^.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Did I miss something? Why didn't Arthur just kill Hiro?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Because Hiro can't die. Neither can any of the other main characters. Unless they have identical siblings.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: No, Daphne on crutches was really lame. What a cliche.
How is it cliche? I'm not familiar with another lame superhero speedster.
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Because Hiro can't die. Neither can any of the other main characters. Unless they have identical siblings.
LOL
The trouble with writing characters with amazing superpowers is that the only thing stopping them, for all intents and purposes, is the writing. I don't like it but as I am watching a show about superheroes, I will accept this part.
My problem is the inconsistencies and the characters I want to strangle.
I mean, I was just starting to be ok with Syler when this episode came around. Who is he? Make up your mind!
And I did get the part about the eclipse only being visible from one part of the world at a time, but as it's utter nonsense that a solar eclipse would have anything to do with their powers, I figured that technicality was the least of their problems.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Oh, come on. She was in crutches and then her super power is speed. How is that not cliche? I'm guessing whoever came up with that one recently watched Forrest Gump.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by orlox: Total eclipses span about 250km of the globe at any one time.
this is a magical eclipse. a wizard did it.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Ah, but she needs the crutches to make up for her good looks.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Hmm. I'm starting to feel like... I dunno.
The show's had some good points, but I just don't care anymore. Give me a few months, and pay me what the actual writers have been paid, and I could write up a better plot.
Even using the same story ideas! Though I'd prefer to do things differently, starting with season two. Yeah, some of it was interesting, but most of it wasn't well done.
Hiro meeting his idol in the past? Great! Him being a white guy? Funny twist. Hiro ending up doing the things his idol was supposed to do, and stealing the girl from Adam? Sure. Not totally original, but good. A great story arc for the guy. Adam appearing again in the present, being the main villain? Sure!
Matt encountering his father, and learning the greater extent of his powers? Another great plotline idea.
Sylar losing his powers for a season, and Peter being out of commission due to not having any memory? Honestly, the idea itself isn't bad, as it allows the other heroes a bit of time without having to deal with the strongest of them. Gives them, like it gave Matt, time in the limelight.
Molly's two daddies? Not bad. Having Mohinder infiltrate the Company with Bennet's help, to take it down from within? Great!
The idea of having the season be focused on the previous generation of heroes, either getting them out of the way, or setting things up for the current generation? Not a bad idea.
Elle? Fun character. Keep her, definitely.
However. What would I dump from the second season?
The Wonderless Twins, naturally. Oh, and the whole season being based on the whole disease thingie. In fact, both that disease that takes out heroes, and the ultimate danger of the human race being wiped out. So, basically, the main plot line of the season sucked.
Have Adam Monroe do something more interesting once he comes into the future. A better villainous plot, or at least something more morally ambiguous, would be good.
The Company should have been, essentially, taken out during the season, or shown to be more than, like, two people.
Oh, and Mohinder really should have focused. He acted like a total idiot, even moreso than season 1. Then again... he is an idiot in general, isn't he?
Claire's plot sucked.
Niki's plot sucked. Everything about that plot sucked. Micah was wasted, the new girl was wasted too, and having Niki's personality thing be something so lame as "a side effect of having powers" as opposed to the more interesting, more mysterious thing it was before, sucked.
Niki's husband dying that way. If you were gonna kill him off, just let him die when he was going to die before. That would have made sense.
The Caitlin thing...? Wtf?!
Among others. Basically, they should have gone in a different direction than merely a retread of the first season, minus most of the mystery and other cool parts.
By the end of the second season, the characters should have begun working together more. Yeah, there was the temporary trio of Matt, Nathan and Peter, but... like. They should really have started to realize, "hey, we need to work together here."
Or you could have saved it for season 3.
Speaking of which...
Peter's dad coming back, with an even better version of his son's power? Neat! Though that might have been best to have in Season 2, being called Generations and all.
Having a lot of villains escape (perhaps in a different context, like the heroes damaging the Company themselves, only to realize that, whoops, the Company isn't ONLY a group of amoral jerks!) isn't bad.
Of course, more and more interesting villains would have been nice, too. Perhaps have one of them be the new villain.
Because that general plotline isn't bad in and of itself. Have the main plot of this season be that the heroes finally, well, meet villains in large numbers.
Sylar would have been a wild card, though I wouldn't have given him immortality. Or maybe I would have, just for that good scene. Have him and Peter FINALLY have a decent confrontation, with a good budget.
Um... I haven't liked a lot in this season, though the potential overarching idea, combined with a better implementation through season 2, would have been good.
So much potential is here, though, even now!
Just... go back to wiping out characters willy-nilly like in season 1, and basically reboot most everything.
Also: They need to really start acting like heroes for once! Yeah, they're normal people... but, no. They aren't. They're stupider than normal people.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I agree with everything you said.
This show had so much potential, but these writers couldn't handle it.
And seriously. Caitlin. What was the point of that? It's real nice how Peter has never thought about her since.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Someone must have wiped his memory about her, hehe.
And I loved how people looked stupid trying to use their powers. They usually do, anyway, but we get the special effects to make up for it. Maybe the writers are finally laughing at themselves a little. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Oh, come on. She was in crutches and then her super power is speed. How is that not cliche? I'm guessing whoever came up with that one recently watched Forrest Gump.
Are you clear on the definition of cliche?
From Merriam-Webster:
quote: 1: a trite phrase or expression ; also : the idea expressed by it 2: a hackneyed theme, characterization, or situation 3: something (as a menu item) that has become overly familiar or commonplace
I'm not sure what adjective you're looking for, but unless you can explain to me when a lame speedster has not only been done, but been done a great many times, then it is not cliche.
I'm afraid Forest Gump isn't close enough for me to call copy cat on it.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by orlox: Total eclipses span about 250km of the globe at any one time.
Blast your logic, Spock.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Oh, come on. She was in crutches and then her super power is speed. How is that not cliche? I'm guessing whoever came up with that one recently watched Forrest Gump.
Are you clear on the definition of cliche?
From Merriam-Webster:
quote: 1: a trite phrase or expression ; also : the idea expressed by it 2: a hackneyed theme, characterization, or situation 3: something (as a menu item) that has become overly familiar or commonplace
I'm not sure what adjective you're looking for, but unless you can explain to me when a lame speedster has not only been done, but been done a great many times, then it is not cliche.
I'm afraid Forest Gump isn't close enough for me to call copy cat on it.
I believe the definition he is looking for is "ironic" like a gun that shoots kisses.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And seriously. Caitlin. What was the point of that? It's real nice how Peter has never thought about her since.
Oh, and has anyone seen Molly lately? I can only assume that Child and Family Services came and removed her from that dumpy apartment when the neighbors reported that her "father" had disappeared for a few days.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Can you really call it disappeared? Its not like she didn't know where he was at all times. <.<
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Yeah, but from the neighbors' perspective, he was just an out-of-work pseudo-adoptive father who disappeared for a while.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Oh, and has anyone seen Molly lately? I can only assume that Child and Family Services came and removed her from that dumpy apartment when the neighbors reported that her "father" had disappeared for a few days.
Isn't it strange the things that intrude on our willful suspension of disbelief. We are willing to believe the premise that a genetic mutation could cause people to have superpowers like flight, mind reading, super strength or super speed -- but we can't handle the idea that a 10 year old girl could be left alone for several days without anything terrible happening.
I don't mean to imply that this is wrong. In fact I think that in a science fiction show where we are already seriously divorced from reality, it is more important to pay attention to those little details about human behavior.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
wouldnt Molly be 14 or something by now? Or am I thinking of the future Molly?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Isn't it strange the things that intrude on our willful suspension of disbelief. We are willing to believe the premise that a genetic mutation could cause people to have superpowers like flight, mind reading, super strength or super speed -- but we can't handle the idea that a 10 year old girl could be left alone for several days without anything terrible happening.
I'm not assuming anything terrible happened. I'm assuming the writers have completely forgotten about her, because we haven't seen her again since Matt got back, and he hasn't mentioned her either.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: wouldnt Molly be 14 or something by now? Or am I thinking of the future Molly?
Why on earth would she be 14 by now? It's been literally months since we first met her.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
They mentioned Molly in the very first episode of the season -- Mohinder dropped her off somewhere safe. That's about all they said about the matter, but she hasn't been left alone or forgotten like the Irish girl. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Aha. I must've missed or forgotten that reference. But apparently I'm not the only one.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Here's another idea:
Let's come up with some really interesting superpowers!
Basically, a whole set of different powers, as imaginative and unusual as you can think of. While the guys at Heroes seem to have a bit of trouble lately in that regard (yeah, painting the future was awesome, for instance, but they haven't done anything cool like that lately) I have a feeling we wouldn't do so badly.
They can be from other sources, too. Just... you know, different than what's been used.
Or should I make a whole new thread on this?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
This is why I like Naruto, everyone technically has the same power but bend it to their wills in different ways.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
SPOILER ALERT!!! * * *
The only reason I don't like Naruto is because they kill Kakashi...
[ November 27, 2008, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: T:man ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Now thankfully I read the mangas to the point where it seems like that but cmon man most people watch the anime version. Spoiler alert.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Christine, though I don't know if it was cliche, per se, I do think it was obvious and unimaginative.
I just caught up on all the episodes I missed online. Boy did that one have me groaning, but no louder than the groans of most of the last five episodes.
I'm happy to hear that writers still get fired for consistently producing crap - looking forward to a possible turnaround, but not expecting much. The show is pretty far gone. Even after "catching up" I don't really have any real drive to watch on Monday.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Dear lord, that link about gave me a heart attack. I love Chuck, and I'm so grateful he'll be back in February.
Is February when the old writer should be back, or do I have to wait even longer to see if Heroes will be getting better?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I'm not exactly sure, but I'm tentatively hopeful that the scheduling break is another attempt at a reboot intermission. I'm sure it will give them plenty of time to gear up a reformed post-Loeb writing team and get Bryan Fuller on the scene again.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
One of the things that's bugging me about the eclipse is that they seem somewhat surprised that it's going to happen, and the show is making a big deal of the predictions of it by Mr. Petrelli and the 9th Wonders comic. Do the writers not realize that we know exactly when eclipses will occur? You don't need precognitive powers to know one is coming up.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:enough with your 'science.'
this is a magical eclipse. a wizard did it.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Plus, Speedgirl already knew what happens in an eclipse. How come people who've lived much longer than her and went through at least one other eclipse (the one that Speedgirl went through) have no idea what happens?!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: One of the things that's bugging me about the eclipse is that they seem somewhat surprised that it's going to happen, and the show is making a big deal of the predictions of it by Mr. Petrelli and the 9th Wonders comic. Do the writers not realize that we know exactly when eclipses will occur? You don't need precognitive powers to know one is coming up.
Oh come on. You can't really fault the writers for this after they've gone through so much trouble establishing that the characters are almost always stupid and short sighted.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
To wit: Couples fall in love after knowing each other for a day. Heroic characters become selfish and evil, and vice versa, with randomness and extremity normally reserved for the WWE. A tiny female shut-in who just took a 2x4 to the kisser can expertly reset a grown man's dislocated shoulder by herself. Half a dozen men open fire with automatic weapons on three stationary men in white shirts, and not one bullet connects. Mohinder sees a picture of a blonde and exclaims "That's Claire!" with conviction - even though it could be of several others in the cast alone. Arthur believes him. Parkman boldly trots out of the cornfield and into the great wide open, and Daphne's father doesn't see him even though Parkman walks almost right beside the truck on his way. Claire does a heavy workout swinging wooden planks and never notices that her muscles now ache. Bennett leaves a loaded gun in plain sight and at the feet of two dangerous but incapacitated stone killers. Ando turns to a ten-year-old for ideas of what to do next. And, as noted, a solar eclipse affects the whole world for a full hour or more.
I'm tellin' ya - magnificent. .. "
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
It was awesome.
Claire still had her healing ability at the time yes? Couldn't she have extended endurence?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
The eclipse already started. And she was acting pretty exhausted.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I liked last episode for the most part, mostly because it didn't take itself too seriously.
Sylar's back to Sylar, which was pretty nonsensical, but his becoming good was also nonsensical. Here's hoping the Season 3.5 reboot has him developing realistically from there.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
The whole Sylar thing simply doesn't make any sense. So he's good, no he's bad - what he's craving his love, no make that power, no make that knowledge.
And why kill Elle if he already got her power? Sylar never showed any indsicriminate desire to kill people.
And WTF with killing the characters and having them come back to life. Very cheesy. What happened with the investigation into Claire? Did the bad lying Mom magically seduce all the guards?
*grumps*
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
No one stays dead in this show. It was so obvious that they'd come back to life that I didn't even care that it was cheesy. I've accepted the cheese.
The only thing I had real trouble accepting was Syler killing Elle at the end. WHY? He already had her power. Even if the return of his power returned the hunger it doesn't make any sense. I was just about to be ok with Syler's transformation when they pulled that crap.
Other than that horrible moment, I let myself enjoy the show. I mean, it's not good. But it's never been good. It was, at least, entertaining. And there's always Hiro. Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
And Seth Green. He was one of the very few saving graces of tonight's episode.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
It was great.
But why does everyone seem so sure that Elle's dead? It only showed Sylar START to cut her open. Then he heard the clock, and he looked up. Then the camera panned out.
And regardless, the MOST nonsensical moment is when Peter sent everyone else off into the jungle while he went all Rambo with the machine gun. WHAT?!?!?!?!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
And now with the "They're not your real parents."
WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enough with this soap opera crap!
Also, why didn't Mohinder just sedate Clyde? He probably could have just said "Here, take this, it will give you your powers back." For that matter, why didn't he sedate Arthur (after Clyde is out of commission, of course). I can understand why Clyde continued to take Arthur's orders- he's an idiot- but that doesn't explain why Mohinder was still so subservient to them. He's supposed to be smart for crap sake!
Why is Hiro smarter as a 10 year old than he is as a 30 year old? Transporting the threat away was the probably the smartest thing he's done in a confrontation to date. Granted, he should have stopped time first, but I'll make allowances BECAUSE he has the mind of a 10 year old.
I just hope that if/when they get the Haitian to Arthur, they don't just put a bullet in him and say it's done. It's been shown time and again that the Regeneratives can come back from the dead once they get their powers back. They would need to rig some sort of frame that kept a spike or something in his head permanently and put it somewhere that nobody will ever stumble onto it and remove it (like space).
With Hiro, they also have a unique ability to study the power-removal effects of eclipse. They can test time and time again the "Why" of it by going back into the eclipse window with their own scientists. Once they find THAT out, maybe they can recreate and harness it. Haitian in a can, so to speak.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Yeah, I forgot about the "They're not your real parents." carp. I don't even care if they are or aren't. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
I agree that Elle might not be dead, but either way it sucked. In fact, she's probably not dead. The show isn't good at keeping people dead. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: And now with the "They're not your real parents."
WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enough with this soap opera crap!
Also, why didn't Mohinder just sedate Clyde? He probably could have just said "Here, take this, it will give you your powers back." For that matter, why didn't he sedate Arthur (after Clyde is out of commission, of course). I can understand why Clyde continued to take Arthur's orders- he's an idiot- but that doesn't explain why Mohinder was still so subservient to them. He's supposed to be smart for crap sake!
Why is Hiro smarter as a 10 year old than he is as a 30 year old? Transporting the threat away was the probably the smartest thing he's done in a confrontation to date. Granted, he should have stopped time first, but I'll make allowances BECAUSE he has the mind of a 10 year old.
I just hope that if/when they get the Haitian to Arthur, they don't just put a bullet in him and say it's done. It's been shown time and again that the Regeneratives can come back from the dead once they get their powers back. They would need to rig some sort of frame that kept a spike or something in his head permanently and put it somewhere that nobody will ever stumble onto it and remove it (like space).
With Hiro, they also have a unique ability to study the power-removal effects of eclipse. They can test time and time again the "Why" of it by going back into the eclipse window with their own scientists. Once they find THAT out, maybe they can recreate and harness it. Haitian in a can, so to speak.
Mohinder was about to leave on his own (he was putting on his jacket) when Arthur prevented him from leaving.
Also when he tried to sedate Clyde, Clyde knew something was up.
Awesome episode.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I KNEW IT WAS SETH GREEN! And they had Jon Arbuckle.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:And regardless, the MOST nonsensical moment is when Peter sent everyone else off into the jungle while he went all Rambo with the machine gun. WHAT?!?!?!?!
If you watch carefully in that scene, you can see the bullets bouncing off Peter. He has his power back and he has adsorbed the Haitian's brother's power of impenetrable skin but he doesn't realize it yet. It will be interesting to see how long it takes him to realize it.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I don't think those were bullets, I think they were his own shell casings.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
If they had followed through with Bennett slitting Sylar's throat and said simply, "Yep Sylar's dead." That might have brought me back to the show because of sheer chutzpa.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Wow, that was a cringe-inducing episode... I think Sylar's real power is having split personality. Like 1000 ways split. Also, Claire has found out for the thousand's time that "daddy" cares more about killing the bad guys than about her. Boo-hoo, should have done something the first 999 times. There were a few good moments there, with Hiro and the geeks, but overall, this was a major letdown. I didn't think I still *could* be let down by Heroes! Maybe I'm just like Claire, except the regeneration part! Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
quote: Also, why didn't Mohinder just sedate Clyde? He probably could have just said "Here, take this, it will give you your powers back." For that matter, why didn't he sedate Arthur (after Clyde is out of commission, of course). I can understand why Clyde continued to take Arthur's orders- he's an idiot- but that doesn't explain why Mohinder was still so subservient to them. He's supposed to be smart for crap sake!
Did you even watch the show? Fist off, his name isn't Clyde. It's Flint. There was a whole scene where Mohinder tried that. Flint wasn't stupid enough to fall for it.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: I don't think those were bullets, I think they were his own shell casings.
I just watched the scene again. He was holding the gun on his right side and the objects bounced off his left side and back. On of them bounced off approximately at the level off his shoulder blade -- a level well above is own gun and he was not firing at the time. It seems highly unlikely that they were his own shell casings.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:he has adsorbed the Haitian's brother's power of impenetrable skin
Why? Did he build up a layer of bullets on his skin? Are his organs penetrable?
I still had a problem with the hour long planet covering eclipse, but beyond that, I liked this episode very much. I felt that it recaptured the spirit of the first season pretty well. The beginning of the season was tenuous, but recent episodes have been pretty good.
One thing that is missing from the first season, however, is the excitement that comes when a major character is killed. I didn't want Claire to die, nor did I want Elle to die, but I never had any sense that the writers would actually keep them dead. So the emotional level just isn't there. Of course, if Elle is really dead it would solve that problem, for a while.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I figured Peter would get his powers back after the eclipse but thought I was wrong when there wasn't anything obvious. Perhaps they plan a more subtle enlightenment. I'll have to look at that scene with the bullets again.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Just went to Hulu to rewatch the scene and it was hard to tell, but I do think some bullets may have bounced off of him. I guess we'll find out soon.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Did you even watch the show? Fist off, his name isn't Clyde. It's Flint. There was a whole scene where Mohinder tried that. Flint wasn't stupid enough to fall for it.
You mean the 10 seconds of low voices and mumbling without a single hint of Mohinder's intent (even AFTER you go back and watch it again)? Yeah, I saw it.
My mistake on the name. I knew it was a country-ish name. Don't know where I got Clyde.
Mohinder didn't really try very hard. He's supposed to be smart.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
He told him he was going to inject him with something, which was actually a tranquilizer. Flint knew what he was doing and asked Mohinder if he thought he was that dumb. Then Mohinder beat him with a microscope.
What was happening in the scene was pretty obvious.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Bell must want out. Or something.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Frankly I'm surprised she and Zachary Quinto are still on the show at all. They could both do much, much better. The two of them, especially when they are interacting, are easily the best parts of the show.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
This is seriously not an attempt to slam other people's views, but to me Quinto and Bell seem two of the worst actors on the show. Both seem too unnatural and try as I might I can't get past that. I really wonder what other people see in them and how much better the show would be for me if I saw the same things! Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
On the other hand I couldn't stand Milo Ventimiglia in Gilmore Girls and I think he's acting great in this one (although the script certainly doesn't make it easy for him ). So I will definitely give Quinto and Bell another try in other movies.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
What I don't get is why people think this eclipse must span the world. I've just assumed that the parts of the show taking place in different parts of the world are happening at different times.
Also, perhaps only the original power of a person returns and that is why Sylar is killing Elle at the end (hunger returned, doesn't have her power anymore). This wouldn't totally work though since Arthur is still alive and well - he should be in a hospital bed if he lost the absorbed power of Adam Monroe.
I don't know why I still want to watch this show every week but I do. I'm still enjoying it despite all of the plot holes.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Corwin,
Honestly? What about Hayden and Ali and Adrian Pasdar? Their dialogue is more stilted and flat than most of the daytime television lineup.
Bell and Quinto are great --- they're just working with cheesy material a lot of the time, and they play it so straight.
Heroes really has the biggest mix of acting styles I've ever seen. Honestly, every time Brea utters the word "Nemesis" I crack up. Her, Greg Grunberg, and the Hiro/Ando mess all belong on a sitcom. I like them, and they're great, but they're a comedy cast when everyone else is playing a drama.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
No, Solo, because how would Sylar cut her head open if he regained just his original power? It would be better imo, though, if everyone just regained their original strength...
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I was hoping someone would recognize this little fact but.... weren't they in Haiti? Or somewhere in the Carribean? Surely they were all within the same timezone.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I dont read spoilers and stuff to know if Elle is leaving the show, but i feel like she isn't dead.
Sylar looked like he couldnt go through with killing her. He panted when he was "done" and they didnt show us her body. She is too beloved by Veronica Mars fans.
I think that the next episode will begin with that scene all over again, to which they will append a whole: I can't do it, i love you, im really good thing...
Yeah, the episode was awesome - looks like they're rebooting the season.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Haiti and Kansas are definitely not in the same time zone.
From wiki:
quote: In the most favourable circumstances, when a total eclipse occurs very close to perigee, the track can be over 250 km wide and the duration of totality may be over 7 minutes.
250 km looks like it would get you from Wichita to Tulsa, but you're not getting remotely close to Haiti.
But let's face it, the show has MUCH bigger problems than the magic eclipses.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Corwin,
Honestly? What about Hayden and Ali and Adrian Pasdar? Their dialogue is more stilted and flat than most of the daytime television lineup.
Hayden is right up there with them as bad acting goes. The other two have some realism in them that doesn't make them entirely fake.
quote:Bell and Quinto are great --- they're just working with cheesy material a lot of the time, and they play it so straight.
Maybe that's part of it. But for me Milo rises above the bad wrinting, these two don't.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Milo isn't good. He does weird stuff with his mouth. It's very distracting.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Milo has nerve damage on the right side of his face that causes his right lip to droop.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think Claire's acting is fine, apart from "Future Scenes" when she's trying to look cool and failing (all the actors have this problem in Future Scenes). Her problem, like many characters in the show, is she is given an increasingly one note script that doesn't give her much to work with.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Future Hiro is the only character who doesn't fail future scenes.
Well, domestic Sylar maybe....
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Milo also suffers from Christian Bale/Batman disease.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Which would be...?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
He makes his voice all gravely... to make it more dramatic?
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
I think that the writers roll dice to determine everyone's loyalties and ethics by the end of a given episode.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I just saw the new episode last night. I think I'm done with this show unless I hear that it's turned around.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I'm gonna watch until the end of the season, then stop. I doubt that they'll manage to get it back to something watchable this year.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I just want someone to come up with a very similar idea and do it right from the start. Because the initial idea is still what's keeping me watching. Here's what I would want to see in a new show:
1. Consistency -- sit down and plan the rules before starting and stick to them.
2. Consistency -- sit down and plan character bios before starting and stick to them. If a character sucks don't, say, kill her off and revive her as her own genetically engineered triplet sister.
3. Story arc -- have one that bridges seasons while smaller subplots close out each season
4. Characters -- focus on a smaller number of characters, at least at first. Make them meaningful and sympathetic.
5. Shades of gray -- doesn't mean that we flip allegiances every episode. Someone mentioned dice...I think that's a good way to put it!
It's not like this idea is new. It's a bit like the x-men, really. Scrap it and try it again in about 3 years after proper planning.
But I'll keep watching until something better comes on. This is just about the only thing I watch other than The Daily Show.
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
I actually like Heroes, and find it fun to watch, and accept weird plot holes, like why a new york police department doesn't seem to notice a detective has gone missing for long periods of time, or what happened to Molly, or why Nathan's wife and children seem to have disappeared completely, but I still like the show.
Maybe I am being too harsh, but when telling a friend at work about the show Firefly, another co-worker told her "Firefly is good, but it's no Heroes". Now that just seems wrong.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Molly was put on a bus. It was brief, but the explanation was there. It's been brought up a few times now.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Nathan turned into an alcoholic in Season 2. His wife, who can walk again - which is the part that I wish would have come back up - took the kids and left. I suppose he's been too busy lately to ask for visitation to be restored. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marek: "Firefly is good, but it's no Heroes".
Wow... Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'd actually have less of a problem with that statement if it was made before Season 2. I personally think Firefly and Season 1 of Heroes were about on par with each other, although for different reasons, but I could see why someone would prefer heroes.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Oh, Cake.
Sylar seems to be the only character with good lines...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Sigh....
I had just decided that Syler was a worthwhile character and now I have to recant. He's completely random.
And Arthur randomly showing up and taking the catalyst from Hiro? Er...what?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Huh? The catalyst is in Claire, not Hiro.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
It'll make sense (sort of) if you watch the episode.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Oh, right. I forgot it was Monday night.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I really liked tonight's episode. Hiro's mom and his interaction with her were actually touching moments - and, more to the point, I didn't hate Claire for pretty much half the episode. Amazing!
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Yeah, Hiro and his mom almost made me forget how terrible the show has been this season.
I also think they're done tinkering with Sylar, finally.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Hey, Christine -
You know how you asked yesterday that someone make a new one, following, you know, consistency and so forth? (at the top of the page.)
Already working on it. By the time I'm able to act as show runner, prolly in about ten years or so, I'll be sure to do so.
Incidentally, I really, especially like the idea of a powered individual who has no power of their own, but gains the power of anyone he's near... but ONLY when they're near.
He or she wouldn't gain them permanently, but would have them while near an ally. In addition... this would allow a very intriguing mechanic of the character combining powers. With multiple other powered individuals around, different powers could be used. And used together, in unusual ways! I mean, not just combining flight and strength to emulate superman or whatever... but perhaps you have, one episode, characters with fire and cold powers, or like being able to tell what other people's powers are, along with one with force fields. Maybe something like that could combine to do something like deactivate others powers... or, you know, something different like that.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I watched long enough to see what exactly they were doing with the Elle/Sylar storyline. Didn't like what I saw, so I turned it off.
I think I've taken the first step to recovery. Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Yeah, I stopped watching when it became obvious that Sylar really was back to his old ways. My interest in the show was only hanging by a thread, anyhow, and that just cut it completely.
--Mel
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I long since stopped watching it for any reason other than to have fun yelling at the screen at all the stupidity, so none of the recent events have done much to ruin it for me.
I don't think the problem is so much that Sylar turned evil again as that the way he became good was so ridiculous in the first place.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
The last few episodes are SO MUCH BETTER than anything in Season 1.
Seriously.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I agree.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Hey, Christine -
You know how you asked yesterday that someone make a new one, following, you know, consistency and so forth? (at the top of the page.)
Already working on it. By the time I'm able to act as show runner, prolly in about ten years or so, I'll be sure to do so.
Incidentally, I really, especially like the idea of a powered individual who has no power of their own, but gains the power of anyone he's near... but ONLY when they're near.
He or she wouldn't gain them permanently, but would have them while near an ally. In addition... this would allow a very intriguing mechanic of the character combining powers. With multiple other powered individuals around, different powers could be used. And used together, in unusual ways! I mean, not just combining flight and strength to emulate superman or whatever... but perhaps you have, one episode, characters with fire and cold powers, or like being able to tell what other people's powers are, along with one with force fields. Maybe something like that could combine to do something like deactivate others powers... or, you know, something different like that.
That is what I thought Peter's power was for the first few episodes and I thought it was a fantastic idea. When I learned otherwise, I was truly disappointed.
As a writer, I've considered doing my own take on this but as I write novels, I really would need a unique take on the subject matter. If I wrote screenplays, I'd be all over this. It doesn't need anything hugely unique -- just well done.
There was another show that I was in love with, The 4400, which also had people with powers (slightly different set up) and it was so well done. Every season, and almost every episode, answered questions and unlocked new ones. The story arc in that show was one of the best I've seen on television. And they canceled it. I won't watch USA anymore after that. I even wrote them and told them so.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I actually REALLY liked the arc in season 1 where Peter was discovering the extent of his power. It was well done and at the time he was inexperienced enough that it didn't feel broken. Problem is, that only works for one season.
Posted by blindsay (Member # 11787) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Hey, Christine -
You know how you asked yesterday that someone make a new one, following, you know, consistency and so forth? (at the top of the page.)
Already working on it. By the time I'm able to act as show runner, prolly in about ten years or so, I'll be sure to do so.
Incidentally, I really, especially like the idea of a powered individual who has no power of their own, but gains the power of anyone he's near... but ONLY when they're near.
He or she wouldn't gain them permanently, but would have them while near an ally. In addition... this would allow a very intriguing mechanic of the character combining powers. With multiple other powered individuals around, different powers could be used. And used together, in unusual ways! I mean, not just combining flight and strength to emulate superman or whatever... but perhaps you have, one episode, characters with fire and cold powers, or like being able to tell what other people's powers are, along with one with force fields. Maybe something like that could combine to do something like deactivate others powers... or, you know, something different like that.
Reading your idea one phrase popped into my head for some reason. (And I have no idea why )
"WITH YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I AM CAPTAIN PLANET!"
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I always thought that if powers were based on mutations and evolution that we should at least be exposed to "Photosynthetic Man" - someone whose mutation is entirely plausible.
C'mon, he could be green and everything! It'd be cool just to have a photosynthetic man around...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I was really hoping the Marine they injected would turn blue and sprout fur.
But I suppose that might border copyright infringement a bit... Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: That is what I thought Peter's power was for the first few episodes and I thought it was a fantastic idea. When I learned otherwise, I was truly disappointed.
The thing is, they were close to give Peter a natural limit to his powers, but the plot required that they drop it.
Remember when Peter was training with the 9th Doctor, and he's telling Peter that he has to stop worrying about his family if he's going to control his powers and not kill all of them. And then he falls off the building, and thinking of Claire allows him to use her power.
And Peter rebukes Claude, realizing the the key to his powers is his caring for other people, a natural trait for him to have, since he's a nurse, and not caring about what happens to people is not only contrary to his personality, but the totally wrong strategy.
And it would have been another contrast to Sylar, who gets his powers only from killing.
That would have worked...he can only use the powers of people he knows, and likes, and is friends with. And he has to think a little, so he can't always use them at the spur of the moment, the way Hiro should be doing, but never does.
But then he takes the radioactive power, and can't control it, so that whole idea wouldn't work.
But if they'd started with this idea, and the season would have been all these powerful people finding each other, forming a little community, with Peter at the center of it, against the monsterousness of Sylar, who is just power for power's sake, that could have been really good.
They could have even had Sylar take Peter's power, and then brough Peter back to life...and it would have availed Sylar nothing...because he couldn't use a power that required empathy and caring.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I was really hoping the Marine they injected would turn blue and sprout fur.
Anyone notice that the marine was played by Chad Faust, who played Kyle on The 4400?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I was really hoping the Marine they injected would turn blue and sprout fur.
Anyone notice that the marine was played by Chad Faust, who played Kyle on The 4400?
I knew he looked familiar! He really should have dropped the bad accent. It was all I could focus on.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I always thought that if powers were based on mutations and evolution that we should at least be exposed to "Photosynthetic Man" - someone whose mutation is entirely plausible.
C'mon, he could be green and everything! It'd be cool just to have a photosynthetic man around...
I think it's time for Peripheral Vision Man.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I always thought that if powers were based on mutations and evolution that we should at least be exposed to "Photosynthetic Man" - someone whose mutation is entirely plausible.
C'mon, he could be green and everything! It'd be cool just to have a photosynthetic man around...
There was in the comics, he was invincible!
(he could make hi own energy!)
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Wait, seriously? that's too cool!
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I'm watching right now.
"Cake?" Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
The best line!
Sylar is the only character with good lines...
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Goodbye, Elle. We could have had such a wonderful time together...
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Yeah, the whole Sylar thing is just stupid. I assume we are supposed to pretend the last few weeks haven't happened?
What was with the catalyst light? It was just silly.
When Arthur teleports Claire back, why on Earth would he go back to the balcony to just go back to the present time anyway?
There was still plenty of average, stupid Heroes stuff, but there were a lot of good parts, and with Sylar back to who he is, I had a great time.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
"Cake?" was one great moment. Another one was showing Arthur trying to stupidly use his powers when he knew that Peter and Nathan had gone after the Haitian, and should have known from Nathan that they found him, and should have figured Peter would come with the Haitian. Shows that stupidity is hereditary in their family and explains a LOT of things! Oh, and: "Intelligent design"! Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
"Cake?" was the best line of the ep.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Indeed. I loved this episode, brought me back into Anime watching season.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
The Cake is a lie. (and Sylar knows it)
Best episode in a long time. I just hope Arthur stays dead this time. (Also, did I call it with the Haitian or what?)
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corwin: "Cake?" was one great moment. Another one was showing Arthur trying to stupidly use his powers when he knew that Peter and Nathan had gone after the Haitian, and should have known from Nathan that they found him, and should have figured Peter would come with the Haitian. Shows that stupidity is hereditary in their family and explains a LOT of things! Oh, and: "Intelligent design"!
Not to mention that he knew that the Haitian was key in taking him out the first time, and probably knew that the Haitian had until recently worked for his wife. Why not just give building security a picture of the Haitian and tell them to call the cops as soon as he arrives
That said, I thought this was one of the best episodes in recent memory.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
How did Sylar appear? What happened? I missed that part's details, and why didn't the Haitian block his powers?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Since when does the Haitian need to try so hard to use his power? And the reason? Arthur is too powerful, yet the Haitian had no problem nullifying Peter. I thought that was kind of lame, but since it didn't really change anything (like let Arthur live) I'm fine with it.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: How did Sylar appear? What happened? I missed that part's details, and why didn't the Haitian block his powers?
Sylar used "script-teleporting". Didn't he have new clothes on too? And the Haitian was a bit exhausted after battling Arthur. He wasn't blocking Arthur's powers anymore either, Sylar was in charge.
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Since when does the Haitian need to try so hard to use his power? And the reason? Arthur is too powerful, yet the Haitian had no problem nullifying Peter. I thought that was kind of lame, but since it didn't really change anything (like let Arthur live) I'm fine with it.
Arthur had several powers that Peter didn't, had more powers than the last time he and the Haitian "fought", and had more experience using the powers and "developing" them as Peter. I think what happened is actually a good thing: unlimited powers of any kind suck, it's good they put a limit to the Haitian's power.
And Sylar might have overpowered Arthur simply because Arthur was already exhausted from fighting the Haitian.
Anyway, I can come up with reasonable (for me) explanations for that part, so it doesn't bother me a bit.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I was referring to when they killed future Peter. And present Peter was there too... But yeah, I wasn't much bothered by it, I just thought it was a little lame.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
Also, while Peter didn't have anything Sylar wanted, wouldn't Sylar want the ability to nullify someone else's power? That would make him nearly unbeatable in a one on one fight.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
That's a very good question. But I still don't understand what Sylar's plan is. Past, current or long term. Is he against Arthur's "team" now? Is he also against the "good" guys? (unlikely, since he didn't kill Peter and the Haitian) Is he going to act on his own? Is he going to throw a dice again?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Sylar is already nearly unbeatable, although he might want to kill the Haitian anyway since he could still be used to take him down.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Sylar can't beat Kring. Kring can vaporize him.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Are you actually trying to make sense of Syler's motives? I'm pretty sure the whole point of his character is semi-amusing one-liners.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Are you actually trying to make sense of Syler's motives? I'm pretty sure the whole point of his character is semi-amusing one-liners.
And that high-angle big-fuzzy-eyebrow evil look.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Are you actually trying to make sense of Syler's motives?
I know, shame on me... Posted by Wonder Dog (Member # 5691) on :
Um... stoopid question: How did Arthur get back n time to confront Claire & Hiro - or was that a younger Arthur? (Either way, it was dumb.)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Well Wonder Dog, We know Arthur stole all of Peter's powers and we know that Peter had absorbed Hiro's time traveling ability and had in fact time traveled both to the future and from the future this season. Arthur had teleported to Africa a couple of episodes ago so it isn't much of a stretch to presume that Arthur can time travel. In fact I thought it had been fairly well established.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
It still doesn't explain how he knew to be on that rooftop at that moment in history to get the catalyst.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
he has the ability to see the future?
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Isn't that HIS rooftop? It's Arthur Patrelli's flat. Or wait, is it that other dude's flat who Peter took care of...
When is Peter gonna get his powers back? They already finished the whole "I'm still a hero without my powers" bit. C'mon I wanna see some major powers action!
And WHEN are they going to kill Mohinder already? Isn't that something that EVERYONE agrees on?
Posted by Wonder Dog (Member # 5691) on :
Good point Rabbit - I don't know why I forgot about that... maybe someone has been tampering with my memories... :0)
I think I felt that scene was "dumb" because it finally seemed like the show had a soul again - Claire connecting with her parents as a confident woman, ditto for Hiro, we're wondering at what the catalyst really is (besides an After Affects plugin that was tweaked for 5 min) and enjoying meeting Hiro's Mom... and then we have another Random Plot Twist. Shocking or surprising us works when used sparingly, but when it happens at least 3 times an episode... it's dumb. (In this case, "dumb" is a technical narrative term for "*sigh*, here we go again...')
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
They could have saved a vial of formula for Hiro.
I actually liked that episode, for the most part. There's no way Syler's actually dead and it's too bad that Mohinder still is, but all that aside, they've set up a good lead in to the next half season.
But they have to give Hiro his powers back. It'll ruin the whole show if they don't.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
This episode made me alternately laugh and cry for all the wrong reasons. Every scene that was decent I had a hard time enjoying, because at this point it's clear that "good quality scenes" have less to do with the writers' skill and more to do with random chance.
They had the opportunity to be really clever with Speedster girl. At first I thought it was really dumb that she went back in time, then realized it actually DID make sense, if her power was actually based around slowing down time to begin with. That would explain how she was able to interact with Hiro when he had stopped time. So amplifying that power could very well lead to her going back in time.
But if that were the case, she shouldn't have been able to go forward in time. At least not that easily. They should have been stuck back in time for a while until she figured out that her power had to do with time manipulation and then learn to reverse engineer it or something.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
quote: There's no way Syler's actually dead and it's too bad that Mohinder still is,
Um, what?
quote: But if that were the case, she shouldn't have been able to go forward in time. At least not that easily. They should have been stuck back in time for a while until she figured out that her power had to do with time manipulation and then learn to reverse engineer it or something.
We can just pretend that's what happened, I mean it was time travel and all.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
*sigh* Why, oh why, do I continue to watch this stupid @%#$ show?
Gabriel, you're our son. Except that you're not. So I guess it's good that despite my long and acrimonious separation from Mrs. Patrelli, we managed to get our story straight.
Sylar's learning to overcome his ruthless hunger. In fact, he's become such a saint he can allow himself to be used as a human Tesla coil for half an episode without lashing out in return. Whoops, just kidding!
(So... Is there anything of the struggle with Sylar from Season 1 left that the subsequent seasons haven't urinated on?...)
But, take heart- Sylar's a lot more fun as a ruthless killing machine; we only have to write two or three funny lines for him a show, rather than trying to write all that wordy, sticky stuff that attempts things like character interaction and development. And we can use him to kill off annoying characters!
Like Arthur Patrelli, the diabolus ex machina incarnate, and another fine example of how we can undo multiple episodes of plot in seconds.
Incidentally, Daphne, should we just assume that all the characters can extend their powers to others by touch now? I'm still rolling my eyes that Micah can suddenly change traffic lights at a distance...
"I've seen the future. You choose Dad!" "Peter, that's not the sort of decision I'm going to make for at least another episode."
"I hate you, Dad! You were never there for me! Hold on, now I see how much you really care about- no, wait! I hate you again!"
Puppy called it. There's dice at work here.
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Molly was put on a bus.
Hmm. "Put On A Bus"? Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Hmm. "Put On A Bus"?
Yup. (First episode of Season three they say something like "I sent her to live with someone or other")
[ December 16, 2008, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I was torn. It's interesting watching things actually moving towards some of the futures we've seen. Nathan working to round all the mutants up, Peter as public enemy #1, etc.
But... Noah says, "Claire, we have to get out of here." No, Noah. What you have to do is cut Gabriel's head off. <sigh> How many times do you have to kill someone before you realize that they just aren't going to stay dead without some fairly extreme measures. And leaving a splinter of glass in the back of his head is not extreme enough. Hell, Claire should know that.
And the whole thing with Meredith just really irked me. Okay, a shot of adrenaline got her going out of control. Fine. Knock her out. That's all. Whack her on the head and put her to sleep. The adrenaline wears off, and everything's good.
The fight scene with Peter and Nathan and Meredith's brother (whatever his name is) was kind of cool, but mostly because all I could think of was, "Claire's uncles all trying to kill one another."
And yeah, Raymond is right. There's no way that enhanced speed stuff should have been able to bring them back to the present. They should have had to live through the next 16 years to get back.
And... paradoxes. Hiro tore up the formula. Does that mean that Ando's new powers (and Peter's and Mohinder's) are going to fade away now? Because the formula never existed for them to use? Gah.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Hiro ripped the paper in half, but did not destroy the formula. They showed his father piecing it back together.
Daphne could go back in time because Ando helped her go so fast that she went faster than light. This is a common explanation for how would could travel BACK in time in scifi. It doesn't explain moving forward. They should have been stuck 16 years ago.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Then what was it that Hiro ripped up after Daphne got him back to now?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:And... paradoxes. Hiro tore up the formula. Does that mean that Ando's new powers (and Peter's and Mohinder's) are going to fade away now? Because the formula never existed for them to use? Gah.
Paradoxes already got extensive treatment in the Terminator thread. I'd like to apply logic to their use of Time Travel but at this point it's clear the answer is "whatever the script wants to happen."
It is my professional opinion as a nerd that Time Travel does not produce paradoxes. It just produces bewildering situations that leave people scratching their heads. If you go into the past, kill your Grandfather and then return to the future you'll be just fine. Objects do not REQUIRE linear causes, it merely looks that way because we normally perceive time as linear.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Then what was it that Hiro ripped up after Daphne got him back to now?
Hiro tried to rip up the formula in the past but daphne took him back too fast, afterwards they stole the present's formula from blonde icechick.
They ripped up the current timelines formula, duh.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Oh, right.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The above comment signifies the coming of the Devil.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Question is did Peter get back his power or only flight?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I don't think there's any reason they'd limit him to flight at this point.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I don't think Peter got flight back when he injected himself. I think he got his ability to absorb powers back. And Nathan was standing right there.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
Could be he reset to his original empathic ability and gained flight again from Nathan.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Who was the black president, a democrat or republican, that is the real question!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Jinx.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
Great, my first post in three months and I have to settle for a tie. Although...strength in numbers...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
T:man -
Neither, he's Klingon. I feel much better with President Worf on the case.
quote:But they have to give Hiro his powers back. It'll ruin the whole show if they don't.
Are you kidding? NO MORE TIME TRAVEL! I didn't mind Hiro teleporting from place to place, but his time travel meddling was the most disruptive influence on the show. With Arthur dead, if he stays dead, and with Peter not having the power, the only person who can do it is a Daphne/Ando team up.
I like this new dynamic. No more time travel, no more super powerful characters for a little while, and a good old fashioned round up. The show might actually be enjoyable for a little while.
The only thing that REALLY pisses me off? A friend of mine and I were working on a story together that involves people with abilities, but not like heroes or X-Men, and one of the abilities one of them had was to amplify the powers of others. Cursed Heroes making my idea less cool than it was!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
HADOKEN!
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: T:man -
Neither, he's Klingon. I feel much better with President Worf on the case.
QFT. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Do you really think Hiro not having his powers will mean the end of the time travel nonsense? No way. There are still a lot of characters who can do that, not to mention characters who can see the future. The only thing that permanently removing Hiro's powers accomplishes is to remove from the heroes dynamic the one true hero...the one guy I could like without reservations.
For the record, though, i don't think his powers will be gone forever. They created the serum to fix it and now there's no reason to suppose that it can't show back up, even if the building did blow up. Or they could come up with another way.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
"Don't die Officer Parkman, you're my hero."
Posted by Zhil (Member # 10504) on :
So... I hope the next season explains why Usutu is alive and well. Is that Matt just going crazy? Is african Isaac just checking out his new snazzy bachelor's pad in New York? Only the writers know!
And yea, when Claire jabbed the glass into Sylar and DIDN'T finish him off was just stupid.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
We mustn't forget:
Why didn't Clair send Noah off and stay to save Bio-Mom?
If heat could weaken that class that much, why didn't Flint (?) escape a long time ago?
What did Sylar kill Puppeteer with?
For that matter, why does telekinesis require hand movement? Doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose? I always thought the hand motions were aesthetic.
What was it that REALLY happened between Future-Ando and Future-Hiro? If it wasn't just red lightning, then what was Ando doing to Hiro? Maybe to people without abilities, it IS just red lightning?
Assuming Peter has to get his abilities back one at a time, where did Future-Peter get Time Traveling from if not from Hiro? I guess Daphne/Ando take him back to see himself, or at least back to Past-Hiro?
When Peter was cut in the presence of the Haitian, he still healed after the Haitian left; why would he then retain a scar, even if it was gotten when he didn't have healing?
For that matter, why would Arthur stay dead? Haven't we seen Regeneraters come back to life a few too many times to be satisfied with that?
Apparently, even Time Travel is accounted for in The Future; after all, the Formula was whole in the past, but ripped in half (and subsequently separated) in the present due to Hiro's trip back. Why then can they SOMETIMES change the future via Time Travel, but not other times?
At what point during this season might Sylar have branched off to become the Good-Sylar from the future? More to the point, was Sylar directly effected in any way by any Time Traveling that might have changed his path? The Hiro/Ando/Parkman/Daphne story-line never really touches Sylar again after Hiro takes him and Elle to the beach. Are we then to believe that Sylar would have ended up good had Hiro let him have his way THEN?
The Peter/Nathan/etc story arc seems to follow the track to Peter's Future pretty nicely up to the point of Peter knocking out Nathan. Why should it have changed then and not The Very Second Peter Returned?!? Shouldn't his foreknowledge of the future have been enough to change it immediately? Why did Arthur/Nathan's plan come so close to fruition after so much resistance? I thought the Future might have been more delicate than that.
The writers can't seem to decide between Destiny and Free-Will. Either Changing Time is impossible, or it happens the second you know about it. There really isn't room for anything in between.
Maybe it was only headed to a very SIMILAR future in which people had Powers- except that Sylar was evil this time, presumably at the flip of a coin.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Wow. I knew one of the main screenwriters had left Heroes after Season I. I did not know that that writer was Bryan Fuller, creator of Pushing Daisies. And now that Pushing Daisies is cancelled, he's coming back!
Holy crap. As long as Pushing Daisies gets a satisfying conclusion I think I will be amazingly happy-fied by this.
Seriously though, you're way late.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I assume you're referring to me? When was it mentioned earlier?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I assume you're referring to me? When was it mentioned earlier?
pages 10 & 11, at least.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Huh. Sorry about that. I just heard it now, so forgive me if I'm excited and needed to share my glee with the world.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I just finally watched the most recent episode.
Wow. All I can say is wow. Hopefully when the "break" is over, they can go all "Superman Returns" and ignore the fact that the first part of the season even happened, and just rewrite it from the beginning.
Or maybe all the first episodes were just a dream, and Angela Petrelli wakes up in the first ep in February. That'd be nice. Turns out she had a bad bit of cheese before bed, and it was simply a fever dream.
The nice thing, though, is that once Bryan Fuller comes in, there's nowhere to go but up. I mean, seriously... a test pattern is even up from this point.
Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but.. man. Just wow.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
When is this starting up again, anyway? I thought I'd give it another couple of episodes to see if the new writers can salvage it.
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I enjoy the show.
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Now that just seems wrong.
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