The title pretty much says it all. I noticed that whenever I mentioned anything about video games to my former girlfriend (the one I told you about breaking up with), she adopted this incredibly bored and icy tone of voice with me, which indicated that I should change the subject. Was this fair? It wasn't as if I began every conversation with "Last night on World of Warcraft ..." (which I don't play); I just mentioned occasionally that I bought a game or that I played something the night before if she asked me what I had done that night. I never even referred to any violent games (because I don't like most types of games that typically are violent).
She spent plenty of time telling me what she watched on TV the night before or what inane piece of celebrity news she heard that day, and I always acted interested, because usually I was to a degree.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
My wife has the same incredibly bored look with glazed eyes when I mention LOTRO....and conversely when she mentions some technical knitting techniques my attention goes away and my eyes glaze over. I don't think it is about fair or unfair but rather things that hold our interest and things that simply don't.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You guys just weren't a good fit for each other.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Perhaps she was not the right dame for you. I like video games, at least the ones that do not make me motion sick.
Posted by Achilles (Member # 7741) on :
I don't know. My wife plays way more video games than I do anymore.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That's understandable. There are some pointless hobby activities which people enjoy (which, let's face it, video games fall under) that would be very hard for me to get into or even to not roll my eyes at. Celebrity gossip is one of them.
Of course, from you short description, it sounds like she didn't even try to keep the video games from being a wedge between you, which is much more problematic than her just not liking them.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
With women, yes. That's why you should ensure that you only date ladies.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
My wife plays more video games than I do also. I'm usually too busy writing games to play them.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
You're confident enough in your code to not test it?
Don't pull the wool over my eyes; I've done (and continue to do) a lot of game programming. And if you don't regularly test your stuff, it's a pain to track down a bug if something shows up. And according to my computer programming teacher, testing a game you've made is still playing games.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I actually can't stop talking about Hatrack on my dates...It's a disease...
However, the women I date seem to be pretty fascinated...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I have to admit that for me a video game habit of more than about three hours a week total is definitely an unattractive trait in a guy.
Exceptions can be made for social games, like Rock Band, if they are done in the presense of other people.
LAN parties don't count.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I actually can't stop talking about Hatrack on my dates...It's a disease...
However, the women I date seem to be pretty fascinated...
Glad you're liking the place, Armoth.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I'd probably talk about Dir en grey for hours if given the opportunity. I love them.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I introduced my bf to WoW and I play more than him. I raid, he plays casually. I'm pretty sure if I were dating someone who had zero interest in WoW we'd be starting with a serious handicap.
I've seen video games play a part in the difficulties of several relationships. Sometimes it's the guy who plays, sometimes it's the girl.
My bf does play a lot of Castlevania and he'll often tell me about it. We joke around about zoning out when we're talking to each other but it doesn't happen with Castlevania any more than another topic Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I don't mind that my girlfriend is completely uninterested in computer games (though she does want to get a 360 so that she can play Rock Band). It's not any kind of a handicap for us, though--she isn't actively hostile toward them, and playing computer games is a pretty minor part of how I spend my leisure time these days. I love--love--that she's an avid SF reader, though, and one whose taste in SF is compatible with my own. I wasn't really looking for a serious relationship when we met, but I knew that I wasn't really interested in a serious relationship, period with someone who wasn't a SF reader.
I melted when I texted her at WorldCon last summer telling her that I was watching a gladitorial robot match and she wrote back with "Gladitorial *robots*? I'm so #$%^ing jealous that I think I might hate you!".
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: You're confident enough in your code to not test it?
Don't pull the wool over my eyes; I've done (and continue to do) a lot of game programming. And if you don't regularly test your stuff, it's a pain to track down a bug if something shows up. And according to my computer programming teacher, testing a game you've made is still playing games.
There is a bit of a difference between testing code and playing a game for fun.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
I have to admit that for me a video game habit of more than about three hours a week total is definitely an unattractive trait in a guy.
Well, I hope that if you ever turned me down it would be because I didn't have enough to talk to you about or didn't want to do enough things with you that you liked to do, not simply because I played too many video games.
When I think of habits that by themselves would turn off women, I think of things like kicking dogs or having sex with random people met through craigslist. You're not equating playing video games more than three hours a week with those, are you?
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I have to admit that for me a video game habit of more than about three hours a week total is definitely an unattractive trait in a guy.
Serious question: Why? And how'd you come to three hours?
Edit: And I'm not trying to build upon what Omega is saying. He got his post in before I could hit post.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
My bf and I both play a lot of games, and we talk about them a lot. He tends to stick with computer games(WoW and the like), but since I only have my laptop at school, I play PS2 and NintendoDS games, particularly RPGs. We talk about both kinds of games, especially if something amusing has happened. He knows that if I had the money, I'd join him in playing WoW and Warhammer(he has AMAZING artistic talent), so it doesn't bore me when he talks about them, because I like to learn about that sort of thing.
Actually, an interest in video games is almost a requirement in boyfriends of mine. Even if it's just old SNES games(which I still play- particularly Lufia 2), they're something fun to do and talk about. My best friend and I take turns playing when we only have single player games, and it's a blast.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Why?
I will say, but I want to preface it with this: About personal taste, there can be no disputations. Also, I am fully aware that I don't exactly have the world's greatest love life track record, so, you know, take it for what it is worth.
But the reason is because I don't enjoy dating people who are not socially adept. I like all kinds of people as friends, but, from long experience, I have discovered that I do not like being the socially adept person in a relationship. I'm okay with managing social situations, but I have to work at it, and if I'm dating someone who is even more socially awkward than I am, it means I have to work at it every time we are together. I don't like having to work at it, and it turns into me not enjoying spending every day with that person. Once being with the other person becomes an onerous chore, the whole thing is doomed.
I have also, in my experience, found that a steady, intense, high-investment (of money and time) love of video games has an inverse correlation with social adeptness.
ETA: And, to be perfectly honest, my older brother loves video games, and my definition of the perfect guy is pretty much "the opposite of my older brother in all personality traits and habits."
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
My girlfriend and I are currently working our way through Fallout 3 together, and we play Rock Band with friends all the time. For us, what keeps it from being a problem is that it's a communal, relationshippy activity - like watching a movie together or going to a concert. It's something we do for fun together on evenings when it's too cold or rainy to go outside.
As for 3 hours a week... psh, we can play more than that in a single day.
Edited to add: It shouldn't be necessary to point this out, but a video game habit doesn't equate to an absence of social skills, any more than being a movie buff or sports fan or classical music enthusiast does. Especially these days, when video games have long since hit the mainstream.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:You're confident enough in your code to not test it?
It's not a matter of confidence; cardinal rule of software development is never have a programmer test their own product.
Secondly, creating a game is fun. Playing a game with others is fun. TESTING a game is not fun, especially if problems arise.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I completely respect your preference, kat. If a potential partner were intensely into, say, NASCAR, that would be a pretty big (though not necessarily insurmountable) negative for me.
That said, aren't there quite a few people that you know fairly well from sake that play a lot more than 3 hours of video games per week who fail to fit that mold? Raja leaps to mind, as does Liza. I think that I do (I'm not currently playing anything at all, but when I play games I play a lot more than 3 hours a week's worth). I'd say that Ty does. I'm sure that there are a lot more of us, but those are the ones that first leapt to mind.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
The problem with this question "Are video games a deal-breaker with women?", is that it presumes women are a monolithic group. We aren't. Playing video games is likely a deal breaker for some women. It may have been for your ex-girlfriend. Other women love video games.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Noemon: It isn't a perfect rule, I admit, so I try not to flat out run the other direction. It's generally usually true, it has seemed like, though, so in my head, if someone DOES have a huge video game habit, then the onus is on them to provide evidence that I won't end up going to sleep on the couch because I just can't face another evening of trying to create a conversation.
For all the people you mentioned in your post, there is ample evidence and has been for years that that would not be the case.
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk:
Edited to add: It shouldn't be necessary to point this out, but a video game habit doesn't equate to an absence of social skills, any more than being a movie buff or sports fan or classical music enthusiast does. Especially these days, when video games have long since hit the mainstream.
That video games have hit the mainstream doesn't necessarily disprove the claim that video games lead to social ineptitude.
On one hand, it's not a dependable scale, and saying that it's true will eventually lead to a ton of people raising their hand and crying "exception", but I'll say that a week where I play games in excess of 10-15 hours by myself are weeks when my responsibilities fall to the wayside and I feel like a self-made shut-in.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
I have also, in my experience, found that a steady, intense, high-investment (of money and time) love of video games has an inverse correlation with social adeptness.
That's how I was hoping you'd explain it. Sorry if I was rude.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
This is all based on personal experience, and you can't argue with my personal experience.
EmpSquared is also correct: that video games have become mainstream doesn't disprove my general thesis. It is entirely possible that most of the population is not socially adept. In fact, that wouldn't surprise me at all. I know I'm not, and I know that those who are benefit greatly from it.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
My personal experience is that, when looking at a correlation between video games and social adeptness, it depends a lot on what sort of video game you are talking about. Games like Rock Band, which you tend to play with other people in person, correlate positively with social adeptness. Games where you interact with people online correlate negatievly, probably because it provides an outlet for social interaction for anyone who isn't as into socializing in person, so it would make sense that those games would attract certain types of people more. Games that you play by yourself probably can go either way, but if you spend too much time playing games on your own, I'd guess it limits social life.
And I don't think any generalization about any type of gamer really holds true that consistently.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I'd argue that the success of the Wii (and to a lesser extent the DS) as opposed to the PS3 and XBox is precisely because it recognizes the limitations of the hardcore gamer demographic and exploits the larger shift of video games to the mainstream. In other words, this difference will eventually be totally eroded.
(And of course even this shift is greatly influenced by the success of titles such as The Sims, which at least a few years ago seemed to occupy five out of ten top ten sales positions on the PC)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I have to admit that since I came to my conclusions about four years ago, I have done my level best to be completely unaware of video games since then. I did play Rock Band and Wii Fit over the Christmas break and greatly enjoyed both of them. Those would be okay.
All I know is that it is a life goal to never, ever go on a date again that includes a first person shooter game. There is no scenario under which that sounds fun for me.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
I would never subject anyone to that or its equivalent (I'm not a fan of first-person shooters). I don't need to play video games with my girlfriend; I just want to be able to mention them. Or at least say something like, "I saw the funniest YouTube video today! Somebody put Meatwad in a Pokemon game!"
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
In late grade school, I daydreamed about what my perfect date would be. It involved a girl in my class named Nicole, pizza, couple skating, and playing a two player game of Centipede (high fiving each other as we got progressively better scores. Centipede was really the core of the imaginary experience).
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
That sounds like a fun date to me. I LOVE Centipede!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
While I have dated many different guys who were into video games, I have never had a good experience. The worst were when we played first person shooter games and I, naturally, sucked at it beyond belief, and he was patronizing about it. You'd think the one where he just beat me would be worse, but at least with that one I didn't feel bad about wanting to run out.
Any situation where I get set up to fail and then patronized about it is going to suck for me. It's like me planning an evening where we translate Latin together or else play Book of Mormon scripture chase with a non-Mormon. The universal dreadfulness of the evenings was part of what convinced me that loving video games = socially awkward. Honestly.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: That sounds like a fun date to me. I LOVE Centipede!
If only I'd known you in grade school!
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I actually dated a girl whose dad is in the military. They're a pretty big gun family. We went to an arcade and she kicked my but at all the first person shooter games...I felt kinda emasculated...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Exactly. There is no scenario where playing a first person shooter game works out for me. Guns are too closely associated with manhood for either of us to enjoy me winning, and since I almost certainly won't, I feel set up to lose, which I also don't enjoy. I'd rather play pool instead. I also usually lose there, but at least I have a fighting chance. And there is geometry involved.
Having said that, the times where we went and shot real guns, either in the mountains or at a gun range, were a whole lot of fun. I enjoyed that.
I suspect there is part of me that doesn't consider skill at video games to be anything to be admired. It isn't real, and it isn't transferable. It isn't like getting good at a craft or an art or sport. It isn't visceral, and it isn't risky. That's all fine for a diversion, but as far as what I find attractive in men, I like talented, adept, clever, and present* men who make me feel comfortable around them, and none of those things seem to go along with an obsession with video games.
*By "present," I mean aware of the world around them, both immediately and globally, possessing an opinion on it, and taking action about it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The date I went on two days ago, no joke, was with a girl who had a wicked hot Quake tattoo on her back.
It went well. Date #2 is going to be at the gamer's guild in nobo, where we will try to kick each other's asses in CS.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: [QB] While I have dated many different guys who were into video games, I have never had a good experience. The worst were when we played first person shooter games and I, naturally, sucked at it beyond belief, and he was patronizing about it. You'd think the one where he just beat me would be worse, but at least with that one I didn't feel bad about wanting to run out. [qb]
Bleah. What an awful evening. Was that a first date? I honestly don't think I've ever had a date that was that bad.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes. And it has actually happened more than once.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Hooray, by Kat's definition I don't exist!
And strangely enough, I'm fine with that.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Yes. And it has actually happened more than once.
With the same person?
I take it back about not having had a date that bad. The worst date of my adult life involved my date spending the entire evening completely ignoring me and flirting outrageously with an old friend of hers who was at the same place we were. That wasn't the first date I had with that woman, but it was the last.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Different people. That's what I can't believe. The only common factor is that they all loved video games. And were male. And about 23. Okay, not the ONLY common factor, but it seems to be the governing one.
And, sadly, I have had many dates that bad. My life in general improved enormously once I started saying no unless I really wanted to go. I don't date nearly as often, but I have cut WAY down on the horror stories.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: We went to an arcade and she kicked my but at all the first person shooter games...I felt kinda emasculated...
See, that wouldn't bother me at all, unless she acted like a jerk about having beaten me.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I am neither socially ept nor an avid video gamer.
To be totally honest, I used some Christmas money to go and get an NES and a few games for it. It's the only system I've ever owned since...the NES. I'm definitely in the less than 3 hours a week category. My wife wouldn't put up with more than that. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Less than three hours a week is totally fine. Good, even. Diversions are good. That's about the same as, say, crossword puzzles.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
My wife and I love video games, but like anything you have to play it by ear. Sometimes she wants to play sometimes I don't. We don't really have defined limits, but we both have an understanding that the other is well within their limits to say if they feel the other is playing too much.
When I was single they asked the girls in my ward at an activity what they found the most frustrating about dating guys and the number one complaint was that guys want to play video games. I think that more and more girls are being raised playing video games and so that will in part make it less of a problem, but for some people video games are just not their thing. There's nothing wrong with that, but if it's important to you, that's something you need to consider and decide if you can give em up.
On the other hand my littlest sister loves video games, reads Manga in Japanese, and bought me this for Christmas, (I love it by the way). For her I doubt video games are deal breaker, but they could be an obsession, which isn't really an improvement.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The best couples accept each other for who they are. If you love video games, you'd better find a date who also loves video games, or is mature and secure enough to appreciate that you enjoy them and not get on your case about it.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: We went to an arcade and she kicked my but at all the first person shooter games...I felt kinda emasculated...
See, that wouldn't bother me at all, unless she acted like a jerk about having beaten me.
The date itself was awesome. It was just a funny feeling. Plus, I beat her at the trivia game, and bought her two stuffed animals...good times...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I actually dated a girl whose dad is in the military. They're a pretty big gun family.
This is a frum girl? That's pretty uncommon.
I might actually know a guy for her. Although if she's the right age for you (you're early 20s, neh?), she's probably too young for him . . .
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I think video games are fun to play for a while, but I have a hard time justifying the time they eat up.
However, I read for hours a week. I guess that's my time-eater. I don't consider it wasted time. So. Luckily my wife likes to read, too. We are content of an evening to read in bed together, and neither of us feels like our needs aren't being met.
I read the entire LOTR to her over the first months of our marriage. We took the book camping, hiking, and floating in a raft on a lake. We read it at home as well. That's still among our favorite memories.
On the other hand, I tried reading one of my dates a short story I had written. That didn't go over well. It proved how inept I was.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I wasn't really looking for a serious relationship when we met, but I knew that I wasn't really interested in a serious relationship, period with someone who wasn't a SF reader.
Don't automatically count people out. It had never occurred to me to read sci-fi before I married my husband. I started because I had read all my books and needed something new, and that's all he had. Now I love it. (Or some of it. Some of it is still too boys-and-robots. But OSC is great for us both.)
So, you never know.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Not in the South. Even here in Richmond, many of my frum momma friends are proficient with small firearms. There are some frum shuls in Georgia where the sisterhoods have have fun shoot fundraisers.
I don't like video games, but they would never be a "deal-breaker" with me unless the guy was completely obsessive and had no other interests. People with one all-encompassing interest that is all they can think or talk about tend to be unappealing to me in general. It's great to be passionate about something, but it's important to recognize that not everyone will share your enthusiasm.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I meant the parent in the military, actually.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, I love reading together.
All proof that my particular preferences are not meant to the gold standard of judgement for all men, but just what I like. I think a guy who loves reading as his primary leisure pasttime is attractive. I think a guy who plays video games as his primary leisure pasttime is not.
But, like I said, take it for what it is worth. What do I know? Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
katharina, it seems odd that you earlier explained the video game thing in terms of social adeptness, but don't apply the same standard to reading. At least, in my experience, people who read a lot for fun don't overlap much with people who are socially adept. Perhaps the skew of my personal experience is just different from yours, though.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I actually dated a girl whose dad is in the military. They're a pretty big gun family.
This is a frum girl? That's pretty uncommon.
I might actually know a guy for her. Although if she's the right age for you (you're early 20s, neh?), she's probably too young for him . . .
Yeah, she's a frum girl. Her dad is a chaplin (Rabbi) in the U.S. military. Actually, I think he's a colonel. She said something about him being the highest ranking Jew in the U.S. military, which is funny...
She's actually really great. She's 23ish i think. Her family moved around a lot so she is very open minded while retaining a halachic and mindset.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I suspect there is part of me that doesn't consider skill at video games to be anything to be admired. It isn't real, and it isn't transferable. It isn't like getting good at a craft or an art or sport. It isn't visceral, and it isn't risky. That's all fine for a diversion, but as far as what I find attractive in men, I like talented, adept, clever, and present* men who make me feel comfortable around them, and none of those things seem to go along with an obsession with video games.
*By "present," I mean aware of the world around them, both immediately and globally, possessing an opinion on it, and taking action about it.
I don't at all dispute your desire for a date that is "present" (although I enjoy playing video games when I have time, mainly RPGs and Madden, it's not something I would do on a first date with someone), but there are some who would argue that video games aren't "real" or provide "transferable" skill. CNBC Link:
quote: EA commissioned the University of Oregon's Warsaw Sports Marketing Center to survey average NFL fans versus those that played "Madden."
The survey revealed that those who played "Madden" were 60 percent more knowledgeable about the game than those who just classified themselves as non-gaming fans of the league.
"This proves that our game is doing a tremendous service to the real sports," Peter Moore, president of EA Sports, told me. "Playing the game creates a better educated and more involved fan. And that means that all the people say gamers are wasting time while playing games on the couch are wrong. We've suspected it for years, but this proves that playing "Madden" helps create a deeper knowledge of the game that just watching on television."
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
All this is based completely on personal experience.
The video game guys were 100% bad experiences. The bookworms were much more varied, so a love of reading doesn't seem like as precise an indicator. Also, depending on what they love reading, it can often make them much more interesting, and that's a very good thing. I have yet to encounter a video game that makes someone more interesting.
ETA: I also prefer guys who like playing sports as opposed to those who like watching sports (same principle), so being better at watching sports is not actually a plus for me.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I wasn't really looking for a serious relationship when we met, but I knew that I wasn't really interested in a serious relationship, period with someone who wasn't a SF reader.
Don't automatically count people out.
Oh, I was probably overstating my committment to finding a fellow SF geek. I was open to casual dating when I met my girlfriend, and certainly went out with people in that context who weren't into SF at all. I had it in my head that my next serious relationship would be with a SF reader, but if things had quickened with somebody who wasn't, it isn't like I'd have walked away from it.
My profile on the dating site I was using was pretty specifically designed to filter out people who were turned off by my particular flavor of geekiness, which probably selected for people who would be open to SF, though.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I must say that transferring your skill at a sports game to knowing facts about the sport in question does not strike me as what katharina was talking about. A better example would be "America's Army", which presumably teaches prospective soldiers something. Also, if you ever need a ruthless general for a soul-destroying war ending in rule over a devastated, but united planet, any HoI player is your man. (Well, some of them are your woman. But not very many.)
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I also prefer guys who like playing sports as opposed to those who like watching sports (same principle), so being better at watching sports is not actually a plus for me.
QFT
Honestly, how is being better at watching sports a positive in any way at all??
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
And I do both games and read... I'm going to die alone.
Seriously though, regardless of what your hobby is, all that's required is being capable balancing your leisure time with your family, professional, and other time constraints. Recognize that leisure is at the bottom of the totem pole, and act accordingly.
Right now, computer games would be the peak occupier of my hobby times (well over three hours a week). The reason for my current balance is that I'm suffering from some fairly severe constraints on my other hobbies by living in an apartment (building furniture, model rockets, model airplanes). I'd argue that I'm not a less interesting or datable person because of this. And, in truth, I'm much more likely to bore with an architecture related discussion or scare someone with a regional design, semi-political rant than I am to try and regale a date with anything remotely related to video games.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
Godric, I personally don't think knowing alot about football is going to be very much of a skill either.
Other than that i think the general video games = social awkwardness is a fair thing to say. I play probably fourteen hours of video games a week. I also read about that much, although that changes more based on what im reading. I would also venture to say that i am a sociable person.
I would have to say that for me, a dislike of video games would be a deal breaker for me. I don't care that my girlfriend prefers not to play them, but disliking the fact that i play them wouldn't work out to well. I think that video games are an infinitly better use of time than watching television(not including science, history, news).
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
AW, I'm pretty sure I'm going to die alone as well, if that helps at all. Probably because the athletic, well-read, socially-adept, proactive, homey, comfy, Mormon man I would like either doesn't exist, isn't looking for a geeky girl like me, is already married, or only becomes that after being married a while.
I suspect it is the last of those, actually.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:I think that video games are an infinitly better use of time than watching television(not including science, history, news).
I wouldn't say infinitely, and I'm not sure even about better, but they're definitely no worse than TV IMO.
My former husband used to rail and rail on my children for playing NES in the afternoon when he was getting home from work, but didn't have any problem at all with them watching mindless syndicated sitcoms instead. <shudder> Now I need to go look at lolcats or something until I get that memory out of my head.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Her dad is a chaplin (Rabbi) in the U.S. military. Actually, I think he's a colonel. She said something about him being the highest ranking Jew in the U.S. military, which is funny...
Indeed.
The guy in question is a couple years older than me, so probably 36 or so. As I said, probably too much age difference.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: I must say that transferring your skill at a sports game to knowing facts about the sport in question does not strike me as what katharina was talking about.
Well, I assume a greater knowledge of football would be beneficial to not just fans, but certainly players, coaches of all levels, sports writers, referees, bookies (heh...), etc.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
Well infinity might be a tad high, but when you watch a group of people sit around and play videdo games for an hour compared to watching something like the real world. There is going to be a major difference between how those two groups act. I personally believe that i react better and think quicker largly due to video games.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
How many video games translate into useful real life skills? Madden makes you more knowledgeable about football, which is great if you're apt to watch football or go to games. Perhaps your knowledge could even make you money in a career as a sports writer.
Most first-person shooters train you for situations that hopefully you will never find yourself in, and if you did, you wouldn't get there because you'd been playing video games. Would you really want to be good at everything you do in Grand Theft Auto? And there's a whole slew of games that have no bearing on reality whatsoever.
I like the idea of the Wii because you actually get to do some movement, but it's still kind of a strange compromise between real life and video gaming. Actually playing the Wii is less like real life and more like a video game. Maybe that will change as more games are developed.
Guitar Hero lets you get to know the guitar part of the songs, I suppose, but certainly doesn't get you any better at playing guitar. I would think that it gives you some bad habits. I've heard that many really good guitar players are terrible at Guitar Hero.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:And there's a whole slew of games that have no bearing on reality whatsoever.
While this is true, there's also any number of games that require general problem-solving, application of learned skills to new problems, resource management, logic, geometric visualisation, quick reactions, and basic math. But in any case I must say this is rather missing the point. Just how many leisure activities would remain if we demanded that they all teach a "useful real-life skill"? The whole point of leisure activities is that they are not real life; if we wanted real life, we could work overtime and earn some more money.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
If you're spending too much time playing video games, as with any leisure activity, then you're not giving yourself enough time to apply whatever skills you are learning through your leisure activity on something that will actually advance your position in life. All those skills are being fed back into the leisure activity instead. In other words, you are developing better reflexes so you can get better at playing more games. You are learning how to solve logic problems so that you can solve more difficult ones at higher levels of the game. In the end, what have you accomplished?
I think what's debatable is how much of any activity makes it something that starts to detract from a healthy, well-rounded lifestyle.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Fine, but then you're just making the good old point that your life should not be completely devoted to leisure activities. Well, duh. This is both boringly obvious and not particular to computer games.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Don't be rude to him, KoM.
----
While in theory any leisure activity could take over someone's life, I just happened to have stumbled a lot more socially-inept gamers than other kind of guy with a hobby. From my completely unscientific observations, video games either attract or create a particularly egregious specimen.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
You should speak.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
There's some transferrence of skill from FPS to, say, paintball. But tranferrence form one frivolous hobby to another really doesn't help.
----
I totally see where Kat is coming from. Not about video games in particular, but in general. She didn't say that playing video games is a deal-breaker for her, or that she couldn't be happy with someone who does. She said that it's a strike against them. We all have traits for which we unjustifiably hold it against them.
It's unjustifiable, but as Kat said, it doesn't need to be justified. You can't argue against personal taste.
----
quote: Just how many leisure activities would remain if we demanded that they all teach a "useful real-life skill"? The whole point of leisure activities is that they are not real life; if we wanted real life, we could work overtime and earn some more money.
Personally, the leisure activities that I've found most satisfying were ones that did teach a real-life skill.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
If my former girlfriend had spent a lot of her time reading, say, Charles Dickens, then I would have considered her justified in scorning video games. But to my knowledge she read no books while I was dating her, and she would have spoken to me in a similar tone of voice if I had told her, say, that I spent much of the day reading Plato's Phaedrus (which I recently did, because I had seen several references to it in other articles).
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
It's so strange to me to hear so many people say that they've experienced a higher likelihood of social ineptitude (ineptness?) in gamers. I suppose that my experience is that most of my friends are gamers, many of them obsessively so. There seems to be a normal distribution of socially adept and inept people in that group. I guess my only point is that I haven't had that experience at all.
However, one experience I have had that sort of echoes Kat's sentiments is the complete blowing-off of the significant other in question. Even the very friendly, outgoing gamers I know tend to have fairly unsatisfied wives who complain that their husbands are "always playing games". (These are the same women at our get-togethers who seem to think I'd rather talk to them about what Brangelina is up to than kick someone's butt at Super Puyo Puyo.)
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Since when do we grade leisure activities by their correlation to other skills?
Reading, knitting, bowling, crosswords, painting, listening to music, golfing, scrapbooking, and bird watching don't make you a better dancer, public speaker, dentist, driver, or accountant. So what?
I think the stigma associated with video games is silly, and no more true or helpful than any other stereotype. Many of my friends and I all play video games more than average, and we're all socially adept, with a variety of interests and hobbies.
I would suggest that the causation is in the other direction. People with less social aptitude will feel more comfortable engaged in activities with less personal interaction, which includes video games. That doesn't mean that many or most video game aficionados are socially inept.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
I've dated several people who are avid gamers. One of them would game until two in the morning in the bedroom where we both slept even if he and I both had to be up early the next day. Any time I expressed frustration about this, it would make him angry. In fact, anything I said to him while he was gaming made him angry.
By contrast my current boyfriend plays video games at least as much, but when he's gaming and I talk to him, he answers me. Often, he'll take off his headphones and turn towards me. Occasionally, he'll tell me that he's in the middle of an intense scene and we can talk in a minute or two. Reliably, a few minutes later, he'll ask me what I had wanted to say.
In my opinion, it's not about the video games, it's about the specific gamer.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
So, am I the only one who is waiting for this conversation to turn the corner to "Most people who belong to online communities aren't the most socially adept people in real life"?
Followed quickly by its cousin, the spectacularly antagonistic "How many people spend more than three hours a week on Hatrack I wonder"?
I suppose their half-brother "How much time before texting and instant messaging becomes worrisome" would probably make an appearance as well before long.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Since when do we grade leisure activities by their correlation to other skills?
Reading, knitting, bowling, crosswords, painting, listening to music, golfing, scrapbooking, and bird watching don't make you a better dancer, public speaker, dentist, driver, or accountant. So what?
Reading, knitting, and scrapbooking all have benefits that extend beyond the enjoyment of the activity in ways that video games do not.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
dean: Right. My husband is a good example of that. He loves video games and can become engrossed in them for hours. He's not socially adept by any stretch of the imagination, but he is considerate . That means he pays attention when I'm talking to him, or tries to game when I'm similarly entrenched in something, like writing. He also invites me to play/watch him play games that I'm interested in, and frequently chooses games he thinks I would like over ones he knows I wouldn't, all other things being equal, so that I can be involved.
But is he socially awkward? You betcha.
MPH: While I would never put reading on the same level as gaming, I would say that it's possible to read only books that are not edifying in any sense of the word, and that video games are not inherently valueless in that respect. I would say it depends on the game.
[ January 23, 2009, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Reading, knitting, and scrapbooking all have benefits that extend beyond the enjoyment of the activity in ways that video games do not.
Knitting maybe, but I can just buy a scarf. Reading and scrapbooking don't seem to apply though. I can look fondly through a folder of video game pictures and discuss the story in my latest game with friends.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: If my former girlfriend had spent a lot of her time reading, say, Charles Dickens, then I would have considered her justified in scorning video games.
Why?
quote:Reading, knitting, and scrapbooking all have benefits that extend beyond the enjoyment of the activity in ways that video games do not.
Indeed? Just how many amateur scrapbooks does the world really need? How important is it that we have many people well versed in the latest Harlequin novel? And how many video games do you play, anyway, to give you such great competence in judging their benefits?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's where it is very personal. I really like introverts, but I like socially-adept introverts. Not necessarily with big crowds, but one-on-one, I just can't handle being around someone socially awkward. I'm too socially awkward myself for me to be happy under those conditions. One of us at least needs to know what we are doing and be comfortable with it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: So, am I the only one who is waiting for this conversation to turn the corner to "Most people who belong to online communities aren't the most socially adept people in real life"?
Followed quickly by its cousin, the spectacularly antagonistic "How many people spend more than three hours a week on Hatrack I wonder"?
I suppose their half-brother "How much time before texting and instant messaging becomes worrisome" would probably make an appearance as well before long.
Texting is evil. An hour a week is too much.
IMing is not horrible, but it does tend to be a huge time sucker. 5 hours a week max on average; occasional weeks of 10-15 hours are acceptable.
Spending time on online fora enhances every aspect of your life and should be promoted over all other considerations. Only if you are spending in excess of 50 hours a week on fora should you be concerned.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Knitting maybe, but I can just buy a scarf.
Sure. That's why it's a hobby instead of a part time job.
quote: Reading and scrapbooking don't seem to apply though.
I don't know about you, but I've learned a lot from reading. Even if it's nothing but an increased vocabulary.
And scrapbooking has external value in as much as you believe that there's value in chronicling your life or preserving memories.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Heck, my husband learned how to keep a rhythm from "Donkey Konga". As the one who has to listen to him drum on the table with his pencil, I would say that that is very beneficial.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Even if it's nothing but an increased vocabulary.
Which is good because...?
quote:And scrapbooking has external value in as much as you believe that there's value in chronicling your life or preserving memories.
Which is valuable because...?
This is an infinite loop: People are saying "Activity X is better than Y because it has better by-products", without even attempting to establish the value of the by-products. Why not cut out the middleman?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: Heck, my husband learned how to keep a rhythm from "Donkey Konga". As the one who has to listen to him drum on the table with his pencil, I would say that that is very beneficial.
That's pretty cool.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:This is an infinite loop: People are saying "Activity X is better than Y because it has better by-products", without even attempting to establish the value of the by-products.
I never said that activities that have external benefits are better than other activities. I just said that I tend find them more fulfilling than ones that don't.
And you can't argue with personal taste.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
This the last thing I would admit to my bosses, but I learned more about delegation and trust playing a video game with 10-15 other people than I did in my MBA program.
I thought about this as logically as I could... I think it came down to work and the game being similar because in general people wanted to be involved, while the people I was grouped with in class people generally wanted to be anywhere else.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Texting is evil. An hour a week is too much.
My one sister-in-law is CRRRAZY... Practically every time I see her she's got her nose buried in her cell phone texting away. If we go out to eat, she'll invariably get up halfway through the meal (or sooner) and spend the rest of the meal outside texting.
I find that, if not evil, at least rude.
But at the same time, she's not someone I'd consider to be an introvert - somewhat immature and a bit of a drama queen, but not an introvert. Quite the opposite, in fact. When she's paying attention to those actually around her she's very sociable.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Actually, when she has her nose buried in her cell phone she's being sociable. Or at least social. Just not with you.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: dean: Right. My husband is a good example of that. He loves video games and can become engrossed in them for hours. He's not social adept by any stretch of the imagination, but he is considerate . That means he pays attention when I'm talking to him, or tries to game when I'm similarly entrenched in something, like writing. He also invites me to play/watch him play games that I'm interested in, and frequently chooses games he thinks I would like over ones he knows I wouldn't, all other things being equal, so that I can be involved.
But is he socially awkward? You betcha.
MPH: While I would never put reading on the same level as gaming, I would say that it's possible to read only books that are not edifying in any sense of the word, and that video games are not inherently valueless in that respect. I would say it depends on the game.
Though I would characterize both boyfriends as not being particularly socially awkward. Both had worked as retail managers in small stores (just as I have), both have close long-term friends (unlike me), both have about the same level of comfort in large groups. Oddly enough, I would say that the former is more active socially though neither of them ever seem to show much awkwardness in a social situation.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
This topic blew up quickly...sorry if I repeat something that's already been said.
I don't think it's fair to say that all women would be disinterested in video games. Also, some women who are not interested in video games may have no problems with you playing and/or talking about them. If it is something you are very interested in, I would say that at the least you would want that kind of girl. Of course, all relationships are based on give and take. It's never ok to be the guy who retreats into World of Warcraft for hours on end and neglects the relationship and even (when they come around) the kids. (I've talked to many fellow moms whose big gripe about video games is that their husbands won't get off their lazy a** and help with the kids.)
For my part, I'm not a gamer. We recently bought a Wii and I'm enjoying a lot of the rhythm games on that system -- Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero...a few other less popular ones. I'm also using Wii Fit to exercise. It's a lot of fun but I wouldn't say I'm a video game girl. My husband has rented a few role playing games for the Wii and my eyes kind of glaze over. I have no problems with him playing them, though, and it makes me excited to see him excited about them.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
I didn't really learn reading untill my brother refused to tell me what was happening in final fantasy.
While i would never put down reading, it is entirely possible to get everything you want from books out of video games. It is not fair to say you learn nothing from video games but how to play them. My creativity, time management, problem solving, and social skills have all been helped from my time with video games.
I also believe that any of you trying to put a limit on any activity is plain silly.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
A bit of consolation to the video game loving guys: All the gamer-girls I know are super awesome, and would make great girlfriends/wives. So if you can find the right girl, you're set.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I didn't really learn reading untill my brother refused to tell me what was happening in final fantasy.
Yup. My oldest boy's reading really took off because of the game Spyro.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Godric 2.0: I find that, if not evil, at least rude.
It's possible that that behavior actually crosses the line into evil?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: ... And you can't argue with personal taste.
Theoretically, you can. You're just not likely to get anywhere
( Although there is the possible exception of acquired tastes, a number of which I have only been driven to acquire via argument. )
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
*cue Monty Python argument sketch*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Now that's what I call a dead parrot.
. . . sorry. Wrong sketch.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Godric 2.0: I find that, if not evil, at least rude.
It's possible that that behavior actually crosses the line into evil?
Rivka applied the evil label, I was just saying it was rude...
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
kat, rather than filtering your potential romantic interests on the basis of their interest in video games, because some people who play video games turn out to be socially awkward ... couldn't you just filter for social awkwardness directly, and not make generalizations about people based on their hobbies?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:LAN parties don't count.
*blink* Seriously? I'd say that the kind of gamer who spends more than three hours a week at LAN parties is far, far more likely to be socially inept than the average.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
I think you're misreading katharina, Tom. She says that she can forgive gaming if it's done as a social activity, but someone who plays video games in a LAN party setting doesn't count for that exception.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I do not think that any one thing by itself is ever a deal-breaker. If a guy seems intelligent and tuned in while liking video games, that is fine, even if he plays them a lot of the time. If a guy plays games and seems zoned out, then it's not.
A lot of people who play video games are fascinating. A lot of people who don't play video games are dead boring.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I don't associate First person shooters with manhood, since I focus on the whole strategic sniper/stealth aspect of cat and mouse where its a more predator-prey relationship. Sometimes your the prey and sometimes your the predator.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:Originally posted by Omega M.:
If my former girlfriend had spent a lot of her time reading, say, Charles Dickens, then I would have considered her justified in scorning video games.
Why?
Because on some level I know I ought to read more. In fact, if she read a lot of "great books", I'd probably read some of them with her; maybe she could help me understand things I didn't get. The girl in question read or started literally no books in the time (10 months) I dated her, so I didn't think she had the slightest justification in looking down on me.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Because on some level I know I ought to read more.
Why? (I'm not going to do this recursively all the way to the bottom, it's just that it's still the same question: Why do you think reading is better than games?)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
the perception ild imagine that someone who reads Charles Dickens or Leo Tolstoy and focuses on the Liberal Arts and Sciences is certifiably making a good use of their times in either their complementary or their chosen field of study and can perceptionwise look down upon people who on the opposite extreme like making "peoplez head asplode".
The perception is one of being cultured, certainly it is not impossible to be both, afterall I am the exemplar of such, but there is some perception, and some evidence that people who focus on video games, and people who focus on becoming the next Boch or Wagner don't overlap much.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Godric 2.0:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Godric 2.0: I find that, if not evil, at least rude.
It's possible that that behavior actually crosses the line into evil?
Rivka applied the evil label, I was just saying it was rude...
Of course, rivka was kidding.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
I actually find it rather cute when guys play video games....
What I don't like is when guys become so obsessed with video games they start to not bathe for days at a time! (Yes, I've actually had relationships where that was the case!) Or when guys become so obsessed with a girl in video games that I (as a girlfriend) felt I just couldn't compete with the on screen character.
Other than that, video games are just fine.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
I love video games, I am 15 though, and women my think differently later in life. However, I see it like any hobby, if it is too obsessive then it's not so good, not necessarily because it's video games but maybe you are seen as too attached to them and therefore unstable(I think hardcore coin collectors are just plain creepy. on the other hand it depends on the woman, like me I love video games, but some people think that they are childish. (what is childish about God of War?) And then it's up to the woman you chose. They may like video games and like that you share that. I love a guy who shares my interests or is even better at some skill than me. A video game can be like that. its a skill to people who appreciate it. but the answer to the question is no for me, they are in no way a deal breaker.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
quote:Originally posted by DDDaysh: What I don't like is when guys become so obsessed with video games they start to not bathe for days at a time!
This goes both ways. Where I work (an office), we had a female temp start a couple months ago. She was a hardcore WoW player. She had frequent tardies as well as a no-show or two (supposedly from all-night playing sessions), and had to be spoken to several times because of her hygiene (she smelled very bad). She's not there anymore.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
heh, I may have done that one summer when I got a new videogame, but that was back when I was, like, 12. And I think that doning things like that really shows how stable you are as a person.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The real trick with requirements and deal breakers in relationships is being honest about what is really important and why.
Is it the playing video games really a deal breaker? Maybe it's really about getting more attention than a machine, or feeling like an outsider, or wanting someone to motivate you.
Is being athletic a requirement, or do you just want someone who will go hiking with you a couple times a month and who looks good on the beach?
I've found that lots of people have a much easier time finding a good match when they really think about their list of deal breakers and requirements, and figure out if their first impressions are really what they want and don't want, or if they need to dig a little deeper.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:what is childish about God of War?
I'll pretend that this wasn't a rhetorical question.
God of War is a perfect example of an adolescent male power fantasy. You're desired by scantily-dressed fantasy creatures whom you treat badly; you're a total bad-ass with divine heritage who gets to go around killing gods with a cool-looking chainy thing; you're in a situation in which only you can save the world; and you have a tattoo.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:what is childish about God of War?
I'll pretend that this wasn't a rhetorical question.
God of War is a perfect example of an adolescent male power fantasy. You're desired by scantily-dressed fantasy creatures whom you treat badly; you're a total bad-ass with divine heritage who gets to go around killing gods with a cool-looking chainy thing; you're in a situation in which only you can save the world; and you have a tattoo.
^^ True story.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Indeed. I usually do that right before tax season.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
I haven't read the three pages of this thread; I am just responding to the title and initial post.
Video games (and fora) are not deal breakers with women. At the very least, as far as I can tell, a women will tolerate either much as she would any other "pointless" male hobby. Usually, though, women actually enjoy indulging in such things themselves.
It is odd that men seem to be better at losing days at a time in video games. But it's also odd that women can lose themselves in Perez Hilton or People magazine.
Two hundred years ago, if I were really into whittling or something, me and my girl would have the same issue. It's not the whittling, or the video games, that are the problem.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Personally, the leisure activities that I've found most satisfying were ones that did teach a real-life skill.
So what are these alleged leisure activities?
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
quote:Originally posted by DDDaysh: What I don't like is when guys become so obsessed with video games they start to not bathe for days at a time! (Yes, I've actually had relationships where that was the case!) Or when guys become so obsessed with a girl in video games that I (as a girlfriend) felt I just couldn't compete with the on screen character.
*Looks at female characters on the Super Smash Bros. game on the Wii*
*Peach *Zelda *Zero Suit Samus
Nope. I can't see it.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:what is childish about God of War?
I'll pretend that this wasn't a rhetorical question.
God of War is a perfect example of an adolescent male power fantasy. You're desired by scantily-dressed fantasy creatures whom you treat badly; you're a total bad-ass with divine heritage who gets to go around killing gods with a cool-looking chainy thing; you're in a situation in which only you can save the world; and you have a tattoo.
But I'm a chick and I like it for the amazing art, puzzles, and yeah killing people with fiery chain swords is fun. They have to make it like that so people will buy it. Of course, I am an adolescent so you have a very good point.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Genuine: But it's also odd that women can lose themselves in Perez Hilton or People magazine.
That's an invalid stereotype, and I'm sure that you know it, only stupid women like things like that and if those are the ones you guys are looking at it's no wonder that you can't find someone who appreciates videogames.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by kojabu:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Personally, the leisure activities that I've found most satisfying were ones that did teach a real-life skill.
So what are these alleged leisure activities?
Why the word "alleged"? Are you disputing that they are leisure for me?
"Real-life" wasn't the best word choice there. Instead, what I meant was that the leisure activities that I've found the most satisfying are ones where I get something out of it besides the enjoyment of the activity.
Some examples:
1. Woodworking. I enjoy woodworking, and when I'm done, I have a toy, a puzzle, a bookcase, etc. that I get to keep. Or give away.
2. Reading. Some stories are more than just fun; they make you think, they resonate, they teach something, or in some other way they stick. I tend to like those more.
3. Music. I enjoy the time I spend practicing and playing music, but at least as much I enjoy the fact that the more I do it, the better I become at it.
4. Aikido. The only regular exercise I've ever been able to stick with has been a martial art where I'm trying to develop skills that would be useful in certain situations.
Of course, these skills aren't very useful for most of us today, and even as I was training, I hoped that all this time I was spending was "wasted", beyond the enjoyment and exercise I got from the activity itself.
I could just cut out the middle-man and just enjoy an activity that I know instead of just hope is "wasted time", but I have never able to stick to one.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pennie-Lain:
quote:Originally posted by The Genuine: But it's also odd that women can lose themselves in Perez Hilton or People magazine.
That's an invalid stereotype, and I'm sure that you know it, only stupid women like things like that and if those are the ones you guys are looking at it's no wonder that you can't find someone who appreciates videogames.
Wow! I hit a nerve there, didn't I!
On behalf of the women I've loved, I am offended that you would call them stupid.
All of my major loves have played video games, even with me. None of them have done it to the extent that I have though.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
Hey Porteiro, is playing a video game no less a real life skill than making music?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
To me, yes, it is less of one. Although I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why.
One reason is that except for some extremely rare exceptions, there's not really any reason to play video games except to entertain yourself. That's not so with music.
That's the reason why, when I came to a point where I had to decide between Aikido and music, I chose music. For me, Aikido was much more of a "selfish" endeavor -- what I got out of it was completely internal to me, while what I got out of music was something that I was able to share with others.
Let me reiterate that I'm not disparaging any form of entertainment. I'm just saying that these things do seem to make a difference to me in how much I enjoy them.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Two hundred years ago, if I were really into whittling or something, me and my girl would have the same issue. It's not the whittling, or the video games, that are the problem.
You know, I doubt this is the case. It's much easier for a video game to be immersive than for activities like whittling or weaving.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Genuine:
quote:Originally posted by Pennie-Lain:
quote:Originally posted by The Genuine: But it's also odd that women can lose themselves in Perez Hilton or People magazine.
That's an invalid stereotype, and I'm sure that you know it, only stupid women like things like that and if those are the ones you guys are looking at it's no wonder that you can't find someone who appreciates videogames.
Wow! I hit a nerve there, didn't I!
On behalf of the women I've loved, I am offended that you would call them stupid.
All of my major loves have played video games, even with me. None of them have done it to the extent that I have though.
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to call anyone stupid really, except maybe Paris Hilton, but I apologize for the way that sounded.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*adds Xtreme Whittling 2010 for the Nintendo Wii to Porter's Christmas list*
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
*anticipates*
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Two hundred years ago, if I were really into whittling or something, me and my girl would have the same issue. It's not the whittling, or the video games, that are the problem.
You know, I doubt this is the case. It's much easier for a video game to be immersive than for activities like whittling or weaving.
Says the man buried in sawdust.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Exactly.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: To me, yes, it is less of one. Although I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why.
One reason is that except for some extremely rare exceptions, there's not really any reason to play video games except to entertain yourself. That's not so with music. ...
Rare here.
In South Korea there are people that make $100k USD playing computer games as a sport for pretty enthusiastic spectators. There's a TV channel, groupies, etc.
Not that this is meant to change your opinion, just to note that there are cultural differences in the way that video games are perceived as a personal activity (while athletic sports are more "socially" perceived here).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In the same way, reading comic books is seen as a less intellectual activity than reading "real" books, often regardless of the content of either.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Being a movie buff is almost cultured, while loving TV makes you a couch potato.
It's rather silly the double standards we often have for various activities and behaviors.
I look at relationships this way - if someone doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, for whatever reason, you're better off. If you love video games, and to someone that's a deal breaker, then you're better off without that person. You wouldn't be happy with them anyway.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I would take the time to type out a thoughtful response to this thread, but my husband and I are fighting Nazi zombies on Call of Duty: World at War in a few minutes. I'll see you guys later.
FWIW, gaming is one of the few things my hubby and I have found we can do together and enjoy together...our other hobbies don't overlap much.
Okay...on re-reading that sounds bad. We're married, we enjoy being married there are LOTS of things we enjoy doing together...but our tastes in books, movies, and TV shows are usually very different. So at home, in the evenings, we have a choice of either watching different things, pursuing different activities (me reading, him doing woodwork for example) or killing virtual zombies together. We enjoy killing zombies together. We enjoy the other things too...and sometimes it's good to do things separately and pursue individual interests...but zombie killing is also fine. Especially when the alien gun comes up on the random weapon draw....I love the alien gun.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: I would take the time to type out a thoughtful response to this thread, but my husband and I are fighting Nazi zombies on Call of Duty: World at War in a few minutes.
That's lovely!
What's with this "quote block" crap? Why can't I just quote someone?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Just to thwart you, Jesse.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: In the same way, reading comic books is seen as a less intellectual activity than reading "real" books, often regardless of the content of either.
Are there really people who consider a romance novel more intellectual than a graphic novel?
I guess it's possible if they haven't looked at either one.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's perfectly possible, depending on the romance novel and the graphic novel.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
quote:Are there really people who consider a romance novel more intellectual than a graphic novel?
Well, I'm just as likely to look down on women who read romance novels as on guys who read graphic novels. Except I'm more likely to keep my feelings to myself when it involves women reading romance novels than guys with graphic novels. I don't know why; that's not fair; but it seems easier to get away with saying something about guys than about girls. Probably the reverse is true, too: men can make fun of women reading Harlequins, more than women can.
As for women who read graphic novels - well, I only know of one. And if there are any men who read romance novels ... I have no words for that.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
I usually have to wrench the remote out of my wife's hands to play Fallout 3 or Left 4 Dead.
I wish she'd go and read a romance novel so I can play! Anyone have any recommendations I can give her?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: As for women who read graphic novels - well, I only know of one. And if there are any men who read romance novels ... I have no words for that.
You need to get out more. I know plenty of both.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum:
Are there really people who consider a romance novel more intellectual than a graphic novel?
I guess it's possible if they haven't looked at either one.
If they have more than a knee-jerk disgust toward all forms of comics, they might be thinking that a book with no pictures forces you to use your imagination and exercise your brain more than a book with pictures.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: As for women who read graphic novels - well, I only know of one. And if there are any men who read romance novels ... I have no words for that.
You need to get out more. I know plenty of both.
Oh, I definitely need to get out more.
(Not to say that those people aren't out there ... just that I don't know them, so I never get the chance to look down my nose at them. )
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
Oddly enough I read both graphic novels and romances.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Puppy: While being an avid gamer is not a complete deal breaker, it hasn't been my experience that "some" of the gamers I have dated were difficult to be around because of social skills. It is well over 90%. While the root of the objection is social ineptness, I have found, in my experience, that the single best indicator of whether or not I am going to have to be "understanding" when they don't have basic social manners is whether or not they love video games.
Since it is not really the games and instead what the games have almost universally indicated for me, there is room for me to be wrong. However, it is easier to tell in a first or second conversation if someone loves video games than whether or not they are socially inept. General nervousness can be put down to meeting someone new - what I want to know is if they are still going to be nervous and rude after four months. People rarely pronounce that they are socially awkward, but if they pronounce that they love video games and the more story and skill involved the better, that's a pretty good signal of it.
All "in my experience", of course.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
Any other near-complete deal-breakers you've got? What about someone who's fat because they don't exercise?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Well, I don't like snide and sarcastic, either. It all comes from me not liking insecure, and adults who are snide and sarcastic on a regular basis tend to be, in my experience.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
edit: Kat beat me to the punch.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
I say this with all seriousness. It would be a complete deal-breaker for me if a potential significant other couldn't deal with social "ineptness" in another person.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's fine. That makes perfect sense. And what someone wants in a romantic partner is not up for debate.
I don't think the quotation marks are necessary. Rather, I don't know what they mean. Do you not believe that ineptness exists?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Any other near-complete deal-breakers you've got? What about someone who's fat because they don't exercise?
You know, I like it when people (men and women alike) are comfortable with how they are, or want to be more fit and are working towards that. What I have problems with are those who don't like how they are but don't do anything about it except whine. That's not a deal-breaker, it's just a bit annoying, and occasionally more than a bit...
Thinking about deal-breakers, the biggest ones would be someone who's smoking, drinking a lot or doing drugs. (Someone devoutly religious comes close, especially for the long term, but I can't say it's an absolute deal-breaker.) Anyway, I tend to avoid "wanting" to fall in love with such people because I learned in the past that I cannot adequately handle those situations, and frankly I don't want to. The rest really depends on the interaction with that other person.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
The quotation marks are probably because I'm not sure I know what ineptness is supposed to mean in this thread.
Bias alert: my interconnected tribes are... gamers, Scrabble tournament players, writers, and families of mentally ill people. I am making a big effort not to feel something like defensive :-). My WORLD is socially different.
I do get what you're saying. If someone said "I only date people with one blue and one brown eye", I would just think they had very specific needs in a partner (and probably give them the phone number of a genetic counselor). But I guess I'm saying that it gives me a grrr feeling.
But! I was married for 19 years to someone who had fundamentally different social needs than I do, and I would never advise such a thing.
So I just grrr a little. I think I'm both defensive and validating at the same time. How's that?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think that is very understandable and I'm not offended.
I am just answering the initial question, and I've put all the disclaimers on it: This is only my experience - I am not declaring it to be a universal truth.
All I can say is that the experiences I have had have led me to my current opinion.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: I usually have to wrench the remote out of my wife's hands to play Fallout 3 or Left 4 Dead.
I wish she'd go and read a romance novel so I can play! Anyone have any recommendations I can give her?
Gag her and throw her into the lake?
That or buy a 40" LCD 1080pi HD TV/Monitor for 600$ at best buy.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:That or buy a 40" LCD 1080pi HD TV/Monitor for 600$ at best buy.
*whisper* 42" 1080p LCD HD TV for $649 on Woot *whisper*
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