Is it because of the weak premise that doesn't seem to be able to sustain a whole show? "There is a organization that rents out programmable people, and one of them will wake up and stop the injustice, even though she chose to be part of the program."
Is it unfair to compare the quality of any episode of Dollhouse so far to that of, say, "Jaynestown" or "Out of Gas" in Firefly? Is Whedon afraid to put his heart into another show that might get canceled until he's *sure* it'll be around for a bit?
What exactly does Whedon hope the audience to stick around for given that he (and his writers) haven't delivered any worthwhile storytelling so far? All we've had is the promise of good storytelling..."Alpha! Dollhouses around the world!" So what?
I remember when this show was announced...Whedon said the idea for it came to him on a lunch-date with Dushku, and they decided right there and then to proceed with it. I wish he had thought about it longer than that.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
And this needed it's own thread....why?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I stopped after episode 2.
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And this needed it's own thread....why?
Why not?
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
quote:Originally posted by JonHecht: I stopped after episode 2.
I wish I did too.
=(
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I'm kind of enjoying it. Not fantastic, but entertaining enough.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And this needed it's own thread....why?
Why not?
Because there's already a lengthy thread on the front page of this very forum discussing this very topic in-depth. Just off the top of my head, that's one reason why not.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
There is already a thread dedicated to Dollhouse, in which I've stated many times that I love the show and don't understand why it's getting so much negativity. I haven't been over there today because I didn't get a chance to watch last night's episode yet.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
A bad show? No, not by a long shot. It's not the greatest thing that I've ever seen, but it's better than A LOT of the forgettable crap that gets aired and sometimes even escapes cancellation.
I think that it's getting a lot of negativity because of Whedon's reputation and the resulting very high expectations that the show generated before it aired. I can't help but think that if Dollhouse was created by anyone else it would get a lot less criticism.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Seconding the question of why this needed it's own thread.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Ego?
Just a guess.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Or he didn't see the other one.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Naw, he posted in it.
--Mel
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And this needed it's own thread....why?
Why not?
Because there's already a lengthy thread on the front page of this very forum discussing this very topic in-depth. Just off the top of my head, that's one reason why not.
I am aware of that thread, and I generally think it's rude to go into lengthy threads dedicated to particular shows just to piss on those shows. Good luck on policing the forum though.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Because, after all, expressing confusion or disapproval on a matter of thread etiquette is equivalent to policing the forum?
Posted by HollowEarth (Member # 2586) on :
This is such a joke. It's okay to have numerous stupid dobie threads (which mind you, can't even bother to have a link anymore), or 400 medical mayflys (let's discuss my vomit, please!) but some doesn't feel like wading into an 8 page thread and we leap all over them?
God forbid someone participate without spending a month reading up on the past history.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
No, it's a stupid thread because these exact issues are being discussed in the main thread. There's nothing here that hasn't been addressed in the other thread.
quote:Clive Candy: I generally think it's rude to go into lengthy threads dedicated to particular shows just to piss on those shows.
From the other thread (just two examples):
quote:I thought it was a trainwreck. Unbelievable and poorly constructed through and through. The flashbacks were horribly written and acted.
quote:I just finished watching last night's episode -- worst so far.
And then we proceed to discuss the show. That's what discussions are for, and that what the main thread is for.
And for the record, I think most Dobies are pointless and ignore most mayflies.
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
^Those are examples of people deriding a specific episode, not the show as a whole. Everyone needs to stop acting so uptight.
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Because, after all, expressing confusion or disapproval on a matter of thread etiquette is equivalent to policing the forum?
I think so. You people seem palpably angry, like someone eager to police would be.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Clive, your original post here would have fit perfectly well in the original thread. Your post would be countered by those who like the show and disagreed with you, and you would have support from those that shared your views.
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
^I am not a fan of "Lost." I would not go into the "Lost" thread to talk about why I feel that show fails, because I think that might be rude to the fans that follow that thread. On the other hand, if I created a thread about why I feel "Lost" sucks, I would be pounced on by the thread police.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Except the other Dollhouse thread is ALREADY filled with people who hate the show. It's seriously split about 50/50.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:^Those are examples of people deriding a specific episode, not the show as a whole. Everyone needs to stop acting so uptight.
I think so. You people seem palpably angry, like someone eager to police would be.
Please, by all means, can you cite a single post in this thread that is 'palpably angry'? Or even uptight?
"Why didn't you post this to the thread discussing the show you mention?" is an uptight question? Well, I guess 'uptight' is subjective.
quote:On the other hand, if I created a thread about why I feel "Lost" sucks, I would be pounced on by the thread police.
You haven't been pounced on by anyone. You're reading a lot that just isn't there.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
If you just popped in the thread and yelled "DOLLHOUSE SUCKS!", that would be rude. But, if you had reasons and explanations and good questions, like you do in your OP here, then you would become part of the discussion.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy: Those are examples of people deriding a specific episode, not the show as a whole. Everyone needs to stop acting so uptight.
Please, tell me more about how we as a forum should act. Draw from your wealth of experience about how the community behaves and instruct us with your wisdom. I eagerly awake the waves of knowledge that will surely spill from your consciousness. Let post #27 be as apt, as prescient, and and useful as posts #1-26*.
*I don't have any recollection of any posts prior to whatever post started this thread. I realize that's an incomplete sample size. I still feel good about my read, though.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: And this needed it's own thread....why?
Why not?
Because there's already a lengthy thread on the front page of this very forum discussing this very topic in-depth. Just off the top of my head, that's one reason why not.
I am aware of that thread, and I generally think it's rude to go into lengthy threads dedicated to particular shows just to piss on those shows. Good luck on policing the forum though.
I must say, I'm not familiar with Clive, or the other thread currently going on, but I do know that when someone comes into a thread where people are discussing a tv show they like or something along those lines and that person just bad mouths the topic, everyone jumps on that person. And many a time i've seen those people tell the person to go start another thread. I have to agree with his stance here. Again, i'm not familiar with his posts in the other thread, so i'm working off incomplete information.
On another note, if you don't care for his thread, don't post in it. Life will thus be happier for everyone. It just seems like a waste of time and effort to post in someone's thread to tell them you don't see a point in their decision to start their thread.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Yet it seems to be worth your time to tell me it's not worth my time to do precisely what you're doing. Yeah, I'm gonna pass. I'm also going to continue to offer advice to newbies about the status quo here.
They're free to ignore the voice(s) of experience, but at least this way we know they've heard them.
Of course, people who don't care about the forums will always chime in and say, "Just leave them alone!" Which is their prerogative. I'll continue to ignore them, because they're idiots. Which is my prerogative.
Posted by Clive Candy (Member # 11977) on :
^I saw the former version of your post, in which you referred to the post your responding to as "boneheaded."
Yea, there is definitely some anger here.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
Yeah. Buffy was so much more intricate than Dollhouse.
*cough*
Give me a break.
The Joss Whedon formula = Interesting Concept + Unconventional Solutions + Witty Joss-esque Dialogue.
I don't know him too well. But an 'amazing' storytelling experience isn't exactly what I expect from this guy.
I like most of the characters. That's about all I really need.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Pretty surprised we got a "man I hate dollhouse" thread before a "man I hate heroes" thread or a "man I hate lost" thread
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by Clive Candy: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: [qb] And this needed it's own thread....why?
Why not?
Because there's already a lengthy thread on the front page of this very forum discussing this very topic in-depth. Just off the top of my headt's rude to go into lengthy threads dedicated to particular shows just to piss on those shows. Good luck on policing the forum though.
I'd cuff and gag you just based on that comment. You have the right to start a new thread, regardless of how reduddant it is.....but others have the right to post whatever they want (pretty much) in it.
Get over yourself.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Guys, at the end of the day, does it really matter whether Clive here wanted a second thread or not? It seems ridiculous to make that the point of this thread.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:^I saw the former version of your post, in which you referred to the post your responding to as "boneheaded."
Yea, there is definitely some anger here.
Who are you talking to here?
And no, referring to something as boneheaded does not mean that the person doing so is angry.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Let's face it. This time, Whedon laid an egg. And it's not one of those face-hugger eggs from Alien, either.
Bring back Firefly!
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:And no, referring to something as boneheaded does not mean that the person doing so is angry.
quote:And no, referring to something as boneheaded does not mean that the person doing so is angry.
No, but I must admit it is still mean spirited. I think it's fair for Clive to feel jumped on in this thread.
Ordinarily, yes, if you rant about hating a show in a thread dedicated to that show, you WILL get jumped on. It's only in this particular circumstance that we have a TV show where people already are divided as to loving or hating it.
But as this thread demonstrates, you're even more likely to get jumped for making a duplicate thread. (I'm actually kinda glad this thread became a discussion of the etiquette of create new threads, rather than a continuation of the exact same discussion going on elsewhere).
What lesson Clive decides to take from all that is up to him.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I don't really see why "Hey Clive, there's already a thread dedicated to this show. At Hatrack, proper etiquette is usually to try and keep redundant threads down to a minimum. Welcome to the forum, by the way." wouldn't have been better.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Bring back Firefly!
Agreed. LOL
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: And for the record, I think most Dobies are pointless and ignore most mayflies.
Dobies are an art form. One that's not to everyone's taste.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: And for the record, I think most Dobies are pointless and ignore most mayflies.
Dobies are an art form. One that's not to everyone's taste.
Maybe some are.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I doubt it, but that's the point of art. It's highly individual. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea:
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Bring back Firefly!
Agreed. LOL
Now if you want to talk about a truly awful show, I'd say Firefly is right at the top of my list. Ugh!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
<blink> Huh?
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Wha?
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Pretty surprised we got a "man I hate dollhouse" thread before a "man I hate heroes" thread or a "man I hate lost" thread
Actually most Heroes threads seem to be "man I hate Heroes" threads, they just don't say it in the title. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was pretty clear. Firefly was God-awful. I don't care how many people say it's cool, I couldn't stay awake through a single episode, and I tried 3 times at the insistence that it really did get good. I rank it among the worst shows ever.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Christine, I wonder if you'd be willing to make a more detailed diagnosis, since so many people (and, I'd venture, a large majority of Hatrackers who have seen it) found it to be a really good show. If it just comes down to "I kept falling asleep", I suppose there's nothing more to add, but I wonder if you found parts of it off putting, amateurish, etc...because "God-awful" sounds worse than "boring" to me. Just curious (and kind of fascinated).
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
(I almost think that Christine is just testing the theory that if people say something contrary to popular opinion on these forums they get attacked. But even if not, I'm interested in why she thought it was 'God-Awful.')
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Well, the first episode was a bit boring.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
When I tried to watch Firefly on Fox, I found it confusing, like I was watching a show from the middle. Of course, that might be because I was. Watching it on sci-fi (or shoudl that be syfy?), it seemed like a whole different show.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Re: Christine and Firefly - Everyone's entitled to their opinion. For instance, some people defend Eragon or Davinci Code to the death, and they both make my brain want to run screaming from the room.
I'm not going to discuss Dollhouse here, though, simply because I don't want to have two conversations going on about the same thing. I'll keep my comments about the show in one place.
To me this is not a thread about Dollhouse, but instead a thread about thread consolidation - which I support.
To many message boards I frequent have two, three, five, nine threads all trying to discuss the same thing. I appreciate that Hatrack posters generally seek out existing threads to post in, so you don't have to scavenge all over the site to discuss a single topic.
So, while I respect Clive's opinion, I'm not going to discuss it in this thread.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Sorry, I fell off for a few days. I wish I could add more about Firefly but honestly, it's now been at least 3 years since I made my attempt to watch it and I have pretty much purged it from my memory. I only remember feeling bored and also feelings of dislike towards most of the characters.
I think my point was just that any show is going to have people who love it and people who hate it. It also seems that people who really liked Firefly seem to dislike Dollhouse. Since I disliked FIrefly and like Dollhouse, it may be that we're looking for different thigns in a show.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
If you started with the pilot - or tried watching it on TV when it first airred, then I don't wonder why. The pilot honestly was by far the worst episode, and I didn't actually enjoy it that much. Also long. It gets really amazing about 5 episodes in - but as with almost all Joss shows you have to slog through the first 3 or 4 till you get to know the characters better and start liking them and then suddenly it becomes wonderful.
But I think it's better to watch Firefly with a bunch of people who know and like the show the first time to watch it. They'll force you to stay awake for the first couple of slow episodes and before you know it, you're hooked
...and then you find out they cancelled it after only 16 Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
See, I thought the real pilot - 'Serenity Part I and II' - was one of the best pilots I've ever seen for a new show. But 'the Train Job,' which is what Fox aired as the first pilot, is the weakest episode in the show.
quote:...and then you find out they cancelled it after only 16
There were only 14. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
White Whale, you're in the minority, I think. Most new watchers prefer The Train Job, because it's more of a crash course than the first episode.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
I love the Pilot and the Train Job. Honestly, I was completely hooked after maybe half the first episode. I've watched the whole series several times.
I don't currently have cable, however, and so I haven't seen any Dollhouse.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Dollhouse is on fox, not cable. Also, you can check out the most recent ones on hulu. I do almost all my tv viewing online now.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
What I really liked the real pilot it that you got some backstory of Mal and Zoe, decent introductions for Book and Simon and River, a good representation of how Jayne's character was from the get go, an introduction to the reavers, to the outer worlds, to the inner worlds, to the lifestyle of Inara, and what I think was a good representation of the style of the show.
The Train Job was more action packed, I guess, but less deep, with much less character introduction / development.
And the people I've shown it to have fallen for it during the pilot. (Although it may have helped that I had 'Finding Serenity' and was able to translate the Chinese phrases)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: I love the Pilot and the Train Job. Honestly, I was completely hooked after maybe half the first episode. I've watched the whole series several times.
I don't currently have cable, however, and so I haven't seen any Dollhouse.
I haven't had cable (or satellite) in over 2 years. Don't miss it a bit. There is such a thing as broadcast (though I am constantly amused by the people who don't seem to realize this) and also there's the internet, which re-airs an awful lot of shows (legally) the next day. GO to www.hulu.com and check out their list sometime.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, I haven't had satellite service in about 4 years, now, and I don't miss it either. Between Netflix, hulu, and Comedy Central's posting of both The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, there is very little that I want to see that I'm not able to.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Of course, that might be because I was. Watching it on sci-fi (or shoudl that be syfy?), it seemed like a whole different show.