The faculty council of Brown University made the decision to change the name of Columbus Day to 'Fall Weekend'. This decision has been met with criticism by the Italian American Mayor of Providence, who takes special offense to this development, since he is an Italian American. In addition, Rush Limbaugh turned his ire towards my humble University. Referring to Brown students who supported the faculty’s decision as “spoiled, rotten little skulls full of mush with brains that represent the arid expanse of the Sahara Desert,” Limbaugh said the change was “idiocy.”
Thoughts? I'm a conservative, and personally, I wouldn't have changed anything, but if two thirds of the student population support the change, then I support their decision. Columbus certainly has the potential to be both a heroic and terrible figure. However, I think that the public perception of him is far too forgiving and reinforcing of Western misconceptions about the nature of colonization.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote: In addition, Rush Limbaugh turned his ire towards my humble University. Referring to Brown students who supported the faculty’s decision as “spoiled, rotten little skulls full of mush with brains that represent the arid expanse of the Sahara Desert,” Limbaugh said the change was “idiocy.”
The way he's been talking recently is like he sort of knows he has to amp up the vitriol in order to keep people's attention.
It's like a slow burnout.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I'd love for that to be true...but haven't people been predicting his downfall for years now?
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I don't have a problem with not celebrating Columbus. It's not a happy memory for people whose ancestors were wiped out by plague and violence, or impoverished for generations while colonists appropriated everything.
I don't feel any guilt over those events but I don't need to celebrate them either.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I'd love for that to be true...but haven't people been predicting his downfall for years now?
Some of us have been wondering how he is still considered not to have fallen. Have you listened to his show? I mean, it's incoherent- I can see it being appealing to some people, but it's bat-crap crazy. By any measure, he fell the same time the Republican party fell; and though that may not be for good, it's at least one measure by which he is not fairing well in his mission. And he just keeps getting more and more dire and obvious in his attacks- I don't care what your ideology is, I don't know anyone personally who could listen to him talk, and not see the logical fallacies and wishful thinking flying past their heads at about 5 shots a minute.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: ... I don't know anyone personally who could listen to him talk, and not see the logical fallacies and wishful thinking flying past their heads at about 5 shots a minute.
quote: Limbaugh Well-Liked by Many, but Not All, Republicans ... Conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh is viewed favorably by 60% of Republicans nationwide, while 23% have an unfavorable opinion of him.
Evidently, you don't personally know anyone representative of 60% of Republicans Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Evidently, you don't personally know anyone representative of 60% of Republicans
That's not unlikely, as there there aren't all that many of them.
The number of self-described Republicans has plunged. Lots of those independants who view Rush unfavorably were Republicans a few years ago. Some of them probably stopped calling themselves Republicans when Republicans started falling all over themselves to suck up to Rush.
The only people calling themselves Republicans now are the crazies who adore Rush, think that Obama caused the stock market to fall in October, admire Palin for her brilliant wit and deep understanding of issues facing the country, and are buying ammo like crazy to defend themselves from Obama's socialist hit squads.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by swbarnes2: The only people calling themselves Republicans now are the crazies who adore Rush, think that Obama caused the stock market to fall in October, admire Palin for her brilliant wit and deep understanding of issues facing the country, and are buying ammo like crazy to defend themselves from Obama's socialist hit squads.
Patently false.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yep.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by swbarnes2: The number of self-described Republicans has plunged. Lots of those independants who view Rush unfavorably were Republicans a few years ago. Some of them probably stopped calling themselves Republicans when Republicans started falling all over themselves to suck up to Rush.
The only people calling themselves Republicans now are the crazies who adore Rush, think that Obama caused the stock market to fall in October, admire Palin for her brilliant wit and deep understanding of issues facing the country, and are buying ammo like crazy to defend themselves from Obama's socialist hit squads.
Yeahhhh I mean this is totally pretty not true at all.
Rush gets made out to be a lot of things, but he's not the banner-waver for an infectuously crazy group of bonkers right-wingers who have become the last bastion of self-described 'republicans.'
That said, what he's doing to the republican party ain't good for the republican party, but it's great for the democrats, who have been utilizing him as an unwitting tool of their own desires!
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Huh?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I'll translate.
Rush fans don't comprise the sum total of Republicans.
Rush and company are great at scaring away independent conservatives, of which the Democrats have taken full advantage.
Is that a fair, if less dramatic reading, Sam?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
What kind of people think a University changing their official calendar from saying "Columbus Day" to "Fall Weekend" is something to get worked up about?
It really makes one think the "culture war" is in its final desperate death throws.
[ April 14, 2009, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I'm not sure what you mean, Rabbit. It seems like yet another example of ongoing culture wars. If it was the only thing left, yeah, it'd be a death knell, but the other battles continue.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: I'm not sure what you mean, Rabbit. It seems like yet another example of ongoing culture wars. If it was the only thing left, yeah, it'd be a death knell, but the other battles continue.
When such a minor change at one small University draws national attention, and in particular Rush Limbaugh's sort of foaming at the mouth kind of attention, it suggests to me desperation. Rush and his fan club aren't the kind that will ever go down quietly. The more evident it is that they are fighting a lost cause -- the more insanely they continue the fight. The more shrill and irrational they are, the more evident it becomes that their loss is imminent.
[ April 14, 2009, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
I miss my alma mater and all its silliness.
(I still remember the time I first saw the term 'heterosexism'. It was in a BDH op-ed piece. I think I was a freshman. Good times.)
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
We could problematize the hermeneutics of the 'Republican as Other'. If we consider the average Republican to be a Subaltern, than maybe Rush is just attempting to speak for them.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm not really sure how conservatism vs. liberalism really comes into this, or even how culture is relevant. Historically speaking, Columbus wasn't a squeaky clean guy-- the facts exist whether you're conservative or liberal. It's simply up to you to decide if the negatives outweigh the positives.
An English parallel would be Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell has been hailed as a republican (small 'r') hero, but he was also a vicious dictator. This is quite well recognized. The situation is different because ultimately Cromwell's regime was deposed and his body was removed from where it lay in state by the returning monarchy.
Napoleon is a French example. A great man in many respects, but certainly not a saint.
History gives the answers. I cannot think of a good reason this should be a political issue. The fact that Italian Americans feel offended specifically because Columbus was Italian is just as peculiar, although I understand feeling protective of your countrymen.
People react strongly to the "felling" of someone they have been raised to regard as a hero, but I think that this is going to be regarded as part of this era. We are revising the popular image of historical characters and complicating them as we go. It will not seem so difficult to accept once these more balanced versions of historical figures trickle down the school system.
A glowing, heroic Christopher Columbus is a just a story.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:It really makes one think the "culture war" is in its final desperate death throws.
Getting worked up about this kind of thing unfortunately isn't a hallmark only of the 'culture wars'.
A town next door to my hometown has recently gotten in an uproar over dropping the 'West' from their name, citing (I kid you not) outrage over the naming of the location in a local TV appliance store commercial.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Rakeesh, I'm not sure what you mean. The down doesn't want to drop the West? Or wants to? Which version of the name did the TV appliance store commercial use?
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:It really makes one think the "culture war" is in its final desperate death throws.
Getting worked up about this kind of thing unfortunately isn't a hallmark only of the 'culture wars'.
A town next door to my hometown has recently gotten in an uproar over dropping the 'West' from their name, citing (I kid you not) outrage over the naming of the location in a local TV appliance store commercial.
That's nothing. The city of West Melbourne Florida wants to drop the "Melbourne" from their name.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
That's what I get for posting while distracted, heh.
Dobbie's got it right (which is actually kind of weird! Do you live in Central Florida, Dobbie?) There are two towns near my hometown, Melbourne and West Melbourne. I'm not intimately familiar with the politics, but both wrangle with each other on a pretty regular basis over the years over water, property taxes, zoning, etc. etc.
Anyway, the people of West Melbourne were apparently recently incensed enough that they wanted to drop the 'Melbourne' from their name. One of the proposed names was 'New Horizons' (something to do with the town motto or something). One of the items brought up was a local television commercial incorrectly gave the wrong name (Melbourne as opposed to West Melbourne) in their frequently airing commercials.
Anyway, completely ridiculous, and just a little anecdote to highlight that people hardly need a culture war to get worked up over some incredibly stupid sh@#.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Anyway, completely ridiculous, and just a little anecdote to highlight that people hardly need a culture war to get worked up over some incredibly stupid sh@#.
Good, because apparently its already over Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I find I do not care about this either way. I wasn't consulted on the Columbus Day beginning, I doubt I will be consulted on it ending, and what some private university does in another state has less than nothing to do with me.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I didn't know you lived in Melbourne, Rakeesh. My wife lived there for about a year the first time she moved to FL, and really liked it.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I'm not really sure how conservatism vs. liberalism really comes into this, or even how culture is relevant. Historically speaking, Columbus wasn't a squeaky clean guy-- the facts exist whether you're conservative or liberal. It's simply up to you to decide if the negatives outweigh the positives.
quote:A glowing, heroic Christopher Columbus is a just a story.
What you are missing is that "American Exceptionalism", the idea that America has an unique moral place in the world, is at the heart of the culture war. The culture of American Exceptionalism rests on a mythical heroic history which is why "revisionist history" has been one of the bugaboos that is routinely attacked by cultural conservatives.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm actually deliberately ignoring it .
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: ... I don't know anyone personally who could listen to him talk, and not see the logical fallacies and wishful thinking flying past their heads at about 5 shots a minute.
quote: Limbaugh Well-Liked by Many, but Not All, Republicans ... Conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh is viewed favorably by 60% of Republicans nationwide, while 23% have an unfavorable opinion of him.
Evidently, you don't personally know anyone representative of 60% of Republicans
Don't necessarily equate what I said with like or dislike. I just said I haven't talked to that many people who are so dim as to be unable to comprehend when they're being force-fed some political hack's schlock. I know a few people who like him anyway- though not that many.
This always surprises people, when I say I don't actually know anyone who actually believes people like Limbaugh, or other various things, but I grew up and lived in a couple of the most liberal communities in America. Not everywhere has a vast array of people who are actually willing to share their political opinions- San Francisco and Northern California has its own political orthodoxy to look after, which makes it no different from any other place.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:I didn't know you lived in Melbourne, Rakeesh. My wife lived there for about a year the first time she moved to FL, and really liked it.
Oh, I don't now, it's just right next to where I grew up is all. My folks and grandparents still live there, though, so I hear all about the news (especially from my grandmother, who is a news junkie) when I talk with `em.
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