Let me apologize up front if there is already a thread on this one but I did do a search before I posted this.
If you haven't seen the latest youtubehit, its definitely worth watching Susan Boyle.
Last week this frumpy middle aged English woman walked on stage of "Britain's Got Talent 2009" and stunned the audience. She has an angelic voice that would be worth listening to if there were no more to the story than that.
To me the more interesting part of the story is how strongly appearances influence peoples perceptions. I am confident that if she had been twenty five and gorgeous the audience's initial reaction to her would not have been nearly so cynical, but I also think that the audience and judges would not have responded with such emotion if she had not defied their initial impression.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Brilliant!
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
That was all kinds of awesome. Beyond the singer though, I want to smack every girl in that audience.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
And every guy, in retrospect. They're just as obsessed with makeup and dramatic facial gestures.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Paul Potts was the big sensation back in '07, stunning the audience and the judges. I thought his video was great, maybe because of how visibly self conscious he was, it was really heartwarming to see.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
See, people keep describing her voice as angelic. People have a totally different conception of angelic from me.
Her voice is great for the song she chose.
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
Yeah, I wouldn't say it was angelic. But perfect for the song. Elaine Paige is not an unrealistic role model.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I felt she rushed the tempo.
Still, she has an absolutely amazing voice. I hope to hear more from her in the future. If she sings other songs this well, I'd buy her albums.
As for her song choice, she's a frumpy middle aged woman who lives with her cat and has never been kissed. "I had a dream my life would be so different from this hell I'm living." Life has definitely killed any dream she dreamed. No doubt she empathized with many of the lines Fontine was singing about. But maybe now that's changed.
I wish her the best of luck.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
I thought she was pretty amazing. I wish I could sing like that.
They'll give her a makeover, at least an eyebrow wax.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
It's not unusual to perform faster in front of audience. But she was singing from a tape, so I doubt she was singing faster than she normally would.
Posted by lobo (Member # 1761) on :
What is wrong with living with a cat and not being kissed? How judgemental to suggest that this is somehow "hell"...
I'm somewhat surprised by how quickly this is making the rounds. I've gotten this from here, four different Facebook posts, and multiple family members, who never spread anything around.
That being said, the woman really is quite spectacular. Les Mis is my favorite musical, and Ms. Boyle helped, if only for a moment, to relieve me of my Les Mis drought since it's off tour at the moment (which saddens me to no end).
I have to say in general that I love both the British and American versions of the Got Talent shows. The only thing I don't like is the propensity to reward children who really aren't that great with accolades simply because they are adorable. But I like the averageness of so many of the groups, the hard work they obviously put in, and more than anything, the variety from constant singing. I wish Britain's Got Talent played here, rather than having to download it somewhere.
Also, I too have a problem with people saying she has the voice of an angel. Sarah Brightman could be described as having the voice of an angel, and she sounds nothing like Boyle. Susan Boyle is a powerhouse, but of a different nature. I thought her "Dreamed a Dream" was fantastic, and I'm eager to see what she performs in the semi-finals. I'm also really looking forward to the premier of the next American season in June.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
The thought that crossed my mind while watching this clip last night was that I don't believe this would never happen in the US. We are too obsessed with youth and beauty (for women anyway)here. She would be no more than a novelty - like William Hung. In fact, doesn't American Idol have an upper age limit?
For full disclosure, I've never watched AI, and I know nothing about the purpose of Britain Has Talent. However, British actresses (Helen Mirren comes to mind) are "allowed" to age gracefully, while American actresses (isn't Susan Sarandon about the same age as Helen M?) don't get the same respect or choice of roles once they reach a certain age.
ETA: I'm at work and got distracted and posted before I was finished with my thought. My point here is more of a sadness that talent/ability etc is not more valued in the US, in contrast to appearance. Again, I don't know the premise of the British show, or the possible reward if she wins the competition, but it's heartening that she is at least being given a chance. I wish American audiences/producers/gossip mavens etc were as open-minded.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Yeah right, Simon...
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
I think it's interesting that Simon NEVER stands up to applaud a contestant's performance. He doesn't do it on Idol and he doesn't here, even when the other two (or 3, in Idol's case) judges do. He doesn't give praise easily, even when he's impressed, as he obviously is here.
And, she's got a MUCH better voice than Paul Potts. And a personality too. Nothing against Potts, but she seems more marketable.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
He stood up for Adam Lambert.
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Did he, I missed that.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Yah, it was a little strange. I didn't like it at all. Link Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by maui babe: The thought that crossed my mind while watching this clip last night was that I don't believe this would never happen in the US. We are too obsessed with youth and beauty (for women anyway)here. She would be no more than a novelty - like William Hung. In fact, doesn't American Idol have an upper age limit?
For full disclosure, I've never watched AI, and I know nothing about the purpose of Britain Has Talent. However, British actresses (Helen Mirren comes to mind) are "allowed" to age gracefully, while American actresses (isn't Susan Sarandon about the same age as Helen M?) don't get the same respect or choice of roles once they reach a certain age.
ETA: I'm at work and got distracted and posted before I was finished with my thought. My point here is more of a sadness that talent/ability etc is not more valued in the US, in contrast to appearance. Again, I don't know the premise of the British show, or the possible reward if she wins the competition, but it's heartening that she is at least being given a chance. I wish American audiences/producers/gossip mavens etc were as open-minded.
I disagree that she'd be no more than a novelty. The end point of the Got Talent shows is that you win a cash prize and a big gig. Here it was a Las Vegas show. Over there I think they actually get to perform for the Queen. I don't think it's at all hard to believe that a woman like that could either perform on a successful Las Vegas show. And I think she could, maybe not easily, but successfully get into Broadway as well.
Actresses like Helen Mirren are in American movies just as much as they are in British ones these days, but they also seem to spend a lot more time on stage rather than the screen when they get to later stages in life. Susan Sarandon could, I think, easily get a number of roles, but she chooses not to. But America has a number of women that are older and past the prime of their beauty and still get amazing roles. Meryl Streep comes to mind.
I do however agree that it's much easier for men to age gracefully than for women, as I can think of a dozen older men who get great roles off the top of my head but I have to think harder for women. On the flipside, I can think of a lot more older British women than British men that easily get roles, at least from an American point of view, but I think maybe that emphasizes the point. Judi Dench, Helen Mirren, Julie Andrews, Maggie Smith. I can't think of any men of the same age other than maybe Sean Connery who both aged that gracefully and continued to get their pick of roles.
In other words, I don't think Americans are that much shallower than Britain. I do however think that there is the perception that we are, and perhaps the film industry feeds that stereotype rather than giving us the chance to appreciate it. But really, why would those older English women be so popular in American film if we didn't appreciate it? It can't just be the accents.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lalo: That was all kinds of awesome. Beyond the singer though, I want to smack every girl in that audience.
quote:And every guy, in retrospect. They're just as obsessed with makeup and dramatic facial gestures.
In all honesty Lalo, would you have reacted differently? Would you have expected that performance from this frumpy, unemployed, middle aged woman? Perhaps you wouldn't have been as rude and cynical as most of the audience, but would have really been that much different?
I don't know why but it seems to be human nature to have low expectations of people who are physically unattractive. Certainly culture amplifies that but research says it isn't solely cultural. I suspect we could unlearn it, but how many of us have.
Isn't part of the fact that this video has spread so quickly rooted in how surprised and happy we all are to see this performance from a woman who looks like Sarah Boyle? You saw the look of total surprise on everyones face in that audience. I was surprised even though I was told what to expect.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I was not very surprised as the lead up pretty much gave away what I should expect. Having said that I was very pleased to see her do so well. I've actually never seen Les Miserable (It's in my netflix instant queue waiting for me) and the enthrallment that the song produced was just equaled by the sincerity with which she sang it.
She seemed like a very wonderful human being and I was happy to join with everyone else in applauding her for her accomplishment.
As for liking or disliking Simon, I think I'd very much enjoy chatting with him in real life.
Also, maybe it was just me but I loved Simon's use of "darling" before she began. I think more girls should be addressed with the word on this side of the pond.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Netflix? You mean...you're going to watch the movie before you see it on stage? Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Netflix? You mean...you're going to watch the movie before you see it on stage?
Hey you said yourself it's not on the road, what's a guy to do?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Pine.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Is there a movie version of the musical? The movie I saw was NOT the musical.
(I saw the musical on stage in Chicago way long ago. It blew me away.)
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Is there a movie version of the musical? The movie I saw was NOT the musical.
(I saw the musical on stage in Chicago way long ago. It blew me away.)
Just did some quick research, I think you and Lyrhawn may have just saved me some serious mental anguish.
*deletes faux Les Miserable off his queue*
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
I was reminded of Paul Potts, as well, both in setup and performance. But I agree with Strider that Paul's initial performance was more touching due to his evident (and undeserved) lack of self-confidence. I was very pleased to hear that he eventually won the competition that year.
Lyrhawn, it is weird how this is making the rounds. Someone sent a link to the entire staff of my school, and we aren't even supposed to have access to YouTube through our firewall! Weird.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Honestly, can you imagine Simon standing up and applauding? (Excepting that one link, which I haven't clicked on yet). It's just not his thing. The look on his face as he was watching Boyle's performance would mean more to me than any amount of applause.
He may be a little harsh sometimes -- ok, way to harsh -- but when he does give praise, it means more than anyone else's. Along the same lines, criticism from him hurts less. Getting a compliment from Paula is just not the same as getting a compliment from Simon. And can you imagine how terrible it would be to get a harsh criticism from Paula? I think Simon's way is better in the long run.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
BlackBlade -
Bon travaille. You'll thank us later when it's back on tour.
I'd suggest getting the soundtrack to the musical in the off time. I don't think it'd ruin it, though you're free to wait a few years to be surprised. I listened to the soundtrack long before I saw the show, and I think it only made it better (though I was disappointed by the lack of British accents!). I like the 10th Anniversary Original London Cast recording. It's amazing.
There's no substitution for seeing it live, but the CD at least helps keep the cravings at bay.
Tara -
He looked utterly smitten after the shock wore off.
Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
BlackBlade: Well, there's the Concert version. Not the same as seeing the play, but still excellent.
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
In relation to Sarah Boyle's eventual "fate" (can't think of another word readily) if she wins, or maybe even if she doesn't: she'll be a star.
Based on Paul Potts, who's touring the world, has had a number 1 album, and has had major exposure worldwide, Boyle will have the same sort of future. They'll groom her, just like they straightened Potts' teeth, and she seems to have a very outgoing personality, which Potts doesn't, so I think she'll be very marketable.
You could just read the look on Piers' and Simon's faces as they looked across at each other during her performance: we've found another one!
And no Tara, I really can't imagine Simon standing up to applaud (I've only ever seen him do it for established stars), but as you say, his general attitude makes his praise much more meaningful than someone like Paula, who just loves everybody.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I knew he stood up for Adam Lambert, and I have never watched a single episode of any of those shows. I just have friends who refer to AL as their "new gay boyfriend."
I read that this lady was in performance school, but left to care for her ailing mother. Her mother died in the last couple of years, but this was ages before that. It's a dream delayed, and a powerful story.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tammy: He stood up for Adam Lambert.
That was a special case; the show was several minutes overtime, and he had about ten seconds to deliver a reaction on behalf of all four judges. I don't think he'd have done it under normal circumstances.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by maui babe: The thought that crossed my mind while watching this clip last night was that I don't believe this would never happen in the US. We are too obsessed with youth and beauty (for women anyway)here. She would be no more than a novelty - like William Hung. In fact, doesn't American Idol have an upper age limit?
Yes, and so did the British equivalent, Pop Idol. The parallel show to this one, America's Got Talent, has no age limit.
Idol might surprise you as well. The first season did require a conventionally popstar-like appearance. To their credit, they started to move away from that the following season (none of that season's top three—Ruben Studdard, Clay Aiken, Kimberley Locke—would have made the initial cut the previous time), and they've widened their range pretty much every season since then. (Taylor Hicks, anyone?)
As regards the audience's expectations, it's also worth noting in their defense that most of the contestants they'd been seeing weren't actually very good. At this initial stage, the trainwreck factor is high.
Anyway, I loved this clip. Excellent song choice, sung really well. Go Susan! Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I loved it. Susan reminded me a little of my grandmother. When I knew her she was old and tiny and unglamorous - she'd turn up at gigs with her shopping bags and her sensible shoes. And then she'd stun the unsuspecting audience with her voice and her playing. It was always such a joy to watch.
In the interview I saw, Susan Boyle said she'd been performing since she was twelve - that's a lot of hard work with (so far) very little reward. I hope she gets her wish.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Is there an audience for ALL the auditions on that show? There must have been a prior screening.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
What an utterly charming woman.
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
I'm sure they do a prior screening before putting them on stage, but the judges don't see them before hand.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Did anyone else see that "I Dreamed a Dream" is now up to the 39th most downloaded song on iTunes?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It is a beautiful song.
I've never had the opportunity to see Les Mis, and I am almost scared to. I've heard so many, many people tell me how wonderful it is, I'm afraid it can't possibly live up to my expectations.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I liked that performance a lot. The audience noise was almost annoying (but it was rather nice to see the audience giving her her due).
American Idol and other shows that air the awful auditions along with the good ones have trained me to expect people who seem out of touch with superficial social norms to also be out of touch with their own degree of talent. Those shows tend to promote for ridicule the people who have the highest count of ridiculous personal qualities. (By ridiculous I mean they draw ridicule, not that they deserve it.)
Otherwise, I don't think I'd expect singing ability to correlate with likelihood to get modeling work.
But, however I got there, I probably am as shallow as that audience was. I probably wouldn't have found her voice so beautiful if I didn't feel it contrasted with her appearance.
It's good to have my preconceptions rattled, much as it pains me to admit I have them.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: It is a beautiful song.
I've never had the opportunity to see Les Mis, and I am almost scared to. I've heard so many, many people tell me how wonderful it is, I'm afraid it can't possibly live up to my expectations.
I saw it after getting used to a fantastic CD recording of it from London, and I've probably seen it a half dozen times, and I've never even been close to disappointed.
One time I only got to see half of it because one of my contacts fell out partway through the show and it was still fantastic.
So long as you aren't seeing like a high school production or something, I think it'll live up to your expectations. It's one of the few things in life that when someone says "this is totally awesome!" it doesn't disappoint.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I first saw a high school production and it lived up to my expectations and got me hooked enough to want to see it professionally.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: It is a beautiful song.
I've never had the opportunity to see Les Mis, and I am almost scared to. I've heard so many, many people tell me how wonderful it is, I'm afraid it can't possibly live up to my expectations.
I'll be honest, I was underwhelmed. It was a lovely show with good music and staging as exact as a science. But it was just a show. I enjoyed it more than RENT (they had voice issues) but less than Phantom of the Opera. I enjoyed it like I enjoy just about anything on a stage. All the hype probably didn't help, either.
With Boyle, I don't think it was her looks, for me, that made her singing such a shock - it was her speaking voice. I'm glad she's getting her chance now. Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Olivia, Adam Lambert is everyone's new gay boyfriend.
I'm not sure I like my daughter having the same gay boyfriend as I do.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I thought Les Mis, while not as flashy or spectacular, was a much better show than Phantom. I was absolutely blown away and would travel to the mainland in a heartbeat to see it again.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
Susan Boyle's performance was on Oprah today.
While I loved her performance and hope she continues to do well I'm a little bit surprised at how much more popular she has been than Potts was. His voice, IMO, is better and his original performance on the show more touching. I find the juxtaposition between their appearances and their voices equal.
And, for the record, as big AI fan I find Adam Lambert haughty and irritating. I can't even watch him. Yeah, he can hit the notes, but the sound is not pleasant and what's up with sticking his tongue out like that? He looks like a wax figure brought to life.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
SB did Cry Me a River for a charity fundraising CD some 10 years ago, also beautiful. It's been uploaded to YouTube (voice only).
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:While I loved her performance and hope she continues to do well I'm a little bit surprised at how much more popular she has been than Potts was. His voice, IMO, is better and his original performance on the show more touching.
I disagree. I found Sarah's performance on the show much more touching than Potts. They sing such different styles that its hard to compare their voices. To me, Sarah's voice is very comparable to the best singers on broadway. Paul is really good but I don't think he is one of the best operatic tenors I've heard. On the whole, I think the bottom line is that Opera simply isn't as popular as the kind of music Sarah sings.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
CT, that Cry Me a River is very good. Even after seeing her on the show, I'm stilled wowed by her voice.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I find the juxtaposition between their appearances and their voices equal.
The comparison neglects two important factors. 1. Gender and 2. Context.
In our culture, its OK for a man to ugly if he is successful in other areas, it is never OK for a woman to be ugly. It shouldn't be that way, but it absolutely is and it shouldn't be in the least surprising.
But even outside that context, there is another issue. I'm not sure how old you are, I'm 47, same age as Susan Boyle. So its really obvious to me that Susan looks and dresses likes she is 20 years older than I am. People are comparing her to their grandmother -- but she's not a senior citizen. She is middle aged. Based on her looks, you would expect her to have an old voice. Women in their sixties are usually loosing their vocal abilites. But although Susan looks older than her age, her voice is still young. I think that is part of why it is so surprising.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cashew: I think it's interesting that Simon NEVER stands up to applaud a contestant's performance. He doesn't do it on Idol and he doesn't here, even when the other two (or 3, in Idol's case) judges do. He doesn't give praise easily, even when he's impressed, as he obviously is here.
(For the record, the act was pretty phenomenal.)
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Meh.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
WW, I know.
Susan Boyle apparently was in voice training as a young woman, but she left schooling to care for an ill mother. Her mother died in the last year or two, and it sounds like she's on he own now.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: SB did Cry Me a River for a charity fundraising CD some 10 years ago, also beautiful. It's been uploaded to YouTube (voice only).
I guess it's all backed up with proof and what not, but those voiced don't sound the same to me.
I guess the different styles, between a more bluesy song and a musical production, and 10 years of aging, have made up the difference, but if you played both those without prompting, I wouldn't even begin to assume they were the same woman.
Regardless, it's beautiful.
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Quoting Rabbit: "Paul is really good but I don't think he is one of the best operatic tenors I've heard" Unquote
He's actually got a terrible opera voice, but has a nice opera-style sound to his tenor, if that makes sense. His vibrato is very wobbly, and he is in no sense of the phrase an operatic tenor (he would never get into an opera company, maybe the chorus). He's a tenor who sings opera songs, (or anything they can make vaguely sound operatic, such as Killing Me Softly translated into Italian from his new album), and there's a world of difference between the two. Think Mario Lanza on an off day.
Having said all that I found the youtube clip of his performance very moving too. But imho, Sarah Boyle has a better voice.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Cry me a River is actually a BETTER performance by her, if you can believe it. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: ]I guess it's all backed up with proof and what not, but those voiced don't sound the same to me.
I guess the different styles, between a more bluesy song and a musical production, and 10 years of aging, have made up the difference, but if you played both those without prompting, I wouldn't even begin to assume they were the same woman.
Regardless, it's beautiful.
*nods
Another likely difference is that one was videotaped live as her first performance in front of 1000s of people, and the other was the best track settled on for a recording done in relatively private and controlled conditions. She had to go with whatever voice she had that day for IHAD, but not with CMAR.
I'm interested in seeing what else comes out on recordings from the competition.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie:
quote:Originally posted by Cashew: I think it's interesting that Simon NEVER stands up to applaud a contestant's performance. He doesn't do it on Idol and he doesn't here, even when the other two (or 3, in Idol's case) judges do. He doesn't give praise easily, even when he's impressed, as he obviously is here.
Here he does stand up and applaud as well: 12 year old kid sings Michael Jackson.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
An aspect of Susan Boyle's popularity is something that hasn't been mentioned here - or if it has, I missed it. The initial audience reaction to her is a reflection of her earliest experiences - as a gawky child with learning disabilities. The following is an excerpt of just one of many news articles covering this aspect of her story.
quote:But she told how as a youngster she was ruthlessly mocked by other kids because being starved of oxygen at birth left her with learning difficulties.
Her ordeal saw her seek comfort in singing - a talent she discovered when she was five.
Spinster Susan - who has never had a boyfriend - said: "I was born with a disability and that made me a target for bullies. I was called names because of my fuzzy hair and because I struggled in class.
"I told the teachers, but because it was more verbal than physical I could never prove anything. But words often hurt more than cuts and bruises and the scars are still there."
However, Susan has proved such a smash hit on Britain's Got Talent that supremo Simon Cowell has held talks with her about signing for his Sony BMG record label.
And she believes her TV success is the perfect answer to the childhood tormentors who made her life hell in Bathgate, West Lothian.
The singer said: "I still see the kids I went to school with because we all live in the same area.
"They're all grown up with children of their own. But look at me now - I've got the last laugh."
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Good for her.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I just watched the first two episodes of Britain's Got Talent in full. There are one or two other acts on there that are really, really going to give Susan a run for her money.
I don't think she'll have a problem beating the dancing Darth Vader, but that Shaheen something or other kid for one is really quite impressive. I can't remember his last name.
In the end I don't think her winning really matters, she's already had a world wide audition and passed with flying colors.
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Yeah, she's already risen above the show, it's immaterial whether she wins or loses, they will market her very successfully.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cashew: Yeah, she's already risen above the show, it's immaterial whether she wins or loses, they will market her very successfully.
I think you are correct in the assertion that her success no longer depends on the outcome of the competition. I do however wonder how much the shows continued success will ride on whether she wins or looses. There are certainly many many people who are very emotionally invested in her right now. If her next performance is as moving as her last and she doesn't win (regardless of the competition), there are going to be a lot of angry viewers.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I don't think we should underestimate how important song selection is to her appeal. "I Dreamed a Dream" is a beautiful, emotionally freighted song.
[ April 20, 2009, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Cashew: Yeah, she's already risen above the show, it's immaterial whether she wins or loses, they will market her very successfully.
I think you are correct in the assertion that her success no longer depends on the outcome of the competition. I do however wonder how much the shows continued success will ride on whether she wins or looses. There are certainly many many people who are very emotionally invested in her right now. If her next performance is as moving as her last and she doesn't win (regardless of the competition), there are going to be a lot of angry viewers.
Once the acts make it to the semifinals after auditions, call-in votes determine the top winner to move onto the next stage, the final (and the judges pick for the two and three slots). I'm not clear on how the final gets decided. But the element of popular vote is sure to work in her favor, given worldwide interest.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Somehow I doubt international Britain's Got Talent gets a whole lot of international callers. But even if it did, if she doesn't move on, it's the fault of democracy, not the judges.
Still, there really are some great acts in competition with Boyle, and a lot is going to hinge on the next performance from her and some of the other groups and individuals.
Either way, I don't see the show itself suffering even if she does lose. It was popular before Boyle, I don't think it'll diminish after her because of her.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
quote: I disagree. I found Sarah's performance on the show much more touching than Potts. They sing such different styles that its hard to compare their voices. To me, Sarah's voice is very comparable to the best singers on broadway. Paul is really good but I don't think he is one of the best operatic tenors I've heard. On the whole, I think the bottom line is that Opera simply isn't as popular as the kind of music Sarah sings.
Rabbit, I suppose in regard to music and gender it's comparing apples to oranges. All I know is that Potts made me cry and Boyle didn't.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Somehow I doubt international Britain's Got Talent gets a whole lot of international callers.
("international Britain's Got Talent?" Sounds like they'd be a setup for international fans. )
I suppose we'll see what happens when it happens.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
the current youtube stats show the video at 33,700,000 views. whatever math they use to calculate 100,000,000 views out of that, they would also need to apply to videos like the Evolution of Dance, which has 118,000,000 views on youtube, and with that same math would be at 360,000,000 views overall. They're mixing and matching statistics without informing the reader.
lol, gotta love the unfortunate typos. In all seriousness though, I know there'd be long distance fees in addition to the actual call in fee, which is a dollar or two, so, even if you use Skype, you'd still have to pay something in order to vote.
Strider -
Thanks for linking that, I couldn't remember his last name. Kid's got a great voice, better than the other child singer, Elliott, from a different group. I think he could easily become as much of a sensation.
I've never seen them stop someone in the middle of an act and offer to let them sing something else. If they don't like it, they buzz them. It had a staged feeling to me, but I wonder if Simon sensed that he had a good voice but picked a bad song and wanted to let him try again because he's a kid.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: the current youtube stats show the video at 33,700,000 views.
That's only one copy of it, Strider. There are a whole lot of duplicates on YouTube; the 100K figure combines them. I don't think the same holds true for Evolution of Dance.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Just from the few clips I've seen of "Britain's Got Talent" I think Simon is generally acting kinder on that show than he does on American Idol. It wouldn't surprise me if the AI persona is partly an act, one that he maintains because they've found that the acerbic impatient Brit engenders enough sympathy for contestants to translate to viewing loyalty.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel:
quote:Originally posted by Strider: the current youtube stats show the video at 33,700,000 views.
That's only one copy of it, Strider. There are a whole lot of duplicates on YouTube; the 100K figure combines them. I don't think the same holds true for Evolution of Dance.
Exactly. There are literally dozens of copies of that performance uploaded. Adding together the first 10 I found put her at 70 million, and there's plenty more. I'd bet it's well over 100 million by now, all told, not even counting the millions of views on her interviews.
Lyrhawn, I hear you. I'm interested in seeing what happens, though, because she really seems to have struck a nerve. I'm getting sent links from elderly people in my family, former students at university, etc. Whether that will translate into a financial commitment (even if small) remains to be seen.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: They're mixing and matching statistics without informing the reader.
Nope, it's directly addressed in the article I linked:
quote:Web stats firm Visible Measures calculated 200 videos of Miss Boyle's song had been viewed nearly 50m times by Friday.
This figure then doubled over the weekend.
[bolding added]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
TheRabbit: You're right, she dresses much older than she is. She looks sixty, perhaps older. She looks like she belongs to my Grandma's generation, rather than my Mother's.
quote:Shaheen Jafargholi
I don't know. I think I'm just kind of tired of this kind of singing. It's so flat and hard.
I think Susan Boyle's voice isn't like that; she actually sings instead of note-yells, which is why I think she actually deserves the response she got, although shame it came so late. If the Cry Me A River track is legitimate, her voice has deteriorated significantly since she was in her thirties. The Killing Me Softly track sounds a lot more like her-- there's a buzz to her voice. The Cry Me A River track, since it was actually released, may have been cleaned up and her voice smoothed over.
We don't celebrate more subtle singing very much any more. Musical Theatre voices seem to lean to the flat and hard where all dynamic variation requires flipping to a head-voice sound, rather than the rich and full (like S. Boyle's) voice that I find much more pleasant. She can actually sing piano without whispering!
As for real classically trained singers-- it's like they come from a different planet. As has been discussed above, the quality of Paul Potts' Opera is not good, merely surprising. There are many, many excellent young classically trained singers, but they don't usually need televised talent shows to help them along.
Not that I'm not extremely glad Susan Boyle managed to apparently blow people's minds. Yes, talent isn't directly linked to appearance or how much effort is put into appearance. Maybe we should have blind singing competitions more often?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I guess I should've read the whole article huh?
that's absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe how popular that clip is.
Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
My boss showed it to us at work today.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: I guess I should've read the whole article huh?
that's absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe how popular that clip is.
You have no idea how many times I've said both of those things in the past. Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote: It wouldn't surprise me if the AI persona is partly an act, one that he maintains because they've found that the acerbic impatient Brit engenders enough sympathy for contestants to translate to viewing loyalty.
If?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote: Yes, talent isn't directly linked to appearance or how much effort is put into appearance. Maybe we should have blind singing competitions more often?
This starts to touch on something that's been bothering me since I originally watched the clip. I'd drafted a few responses and ultimately decided not to post, but basically the gist is this: no, talent isn't directly linked to appearance, but it is in the same vein: that is, people with talent have as little control over that ability as people with good looks have over their appearance. Boyle's singing ability is natural and no more a product of her own creation than if she were naturally beautiful.
I have a talent for singing, and it's always been something I've fixated on and used to help define myself: who I am, what I have to offer in this world has been inextricably tied to the natural abilities I'd always had. More and more recently I've become uncomfortable with compliments about my voice: isn't it the same as complimenting someone on their looks? Something outside of my control, that I've always had -- why would you compliment someone on that?
"Good on you for waking up this morning!" "Well done on being born!" "You are such a wonderful blinker and breather!" It feels like "Congratulations: you've done nothing and for some reason I think that's awesome!"
I'd rather be acknowledged for the things I work for and cultivate.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
The question that's been on my mind: If Susan Boyle had been a partially trained 20-something with a great body and a pretty face--and gave an identical performance, vibrato and all...would anybody care? If we went on just the recording (without the audience screams), how many people would be impressed?
Here we are talking about how sad it is that so many people judged her on her appearance, but the only reason this is popular is because of her physical appearance. We wouldn't be watching this video otherwise.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:People with talent have as little control over that ability as people with good looks have over their appearance. Boyle's singing ability is natural and no more a product of her own creation than if she were naturally beautiful.
I fundamentally disagree. A natural gift may be necessary to be great at anything, but whether its music, dance, art, writing or mathematics true greatness requires a lot more than natural talent. We are talking about years of dedication and hard work.
Based on what I've heard, Susan Boyle's singing is only partly natural ability. Yes, I'm sure that is an important part of it, but the rest represents years of dedicated work. Assuming that the three recordings that are out there are legit, Susan has a very versatile voice. She has a great range, excellent control, dynamics and the ability to sing well in several different styles. That isn't a natural gift, its the result of hard work. I think the same can be said of any great singer, artist, scholar or person. It is not simply a matter of what we have been given but what we do with it.
Oh, and I think that is fundamentally different from how we look . Certainly there are those who make the most of their natural beauty and those who don't, but I'm pretty confident that if I spent an afternoon in the hands of a great beautician, I could look as good (probably better) than if I spent two hours every morning grooming myself.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
No. I used to date a couple professional models, and they definitely took their appearance seriously in a way that, at the end of the day, mattered. They would spend hours on the upkeep of their bodies, their wardrobes, and even their expressions; they regarded their physical attributes as tools to be kept in top condition.
It is, I think, dismissive of their efforts to suggest that a couple of hours with someone who knows how to apply makeup might somehow be the equivalent.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
With looks, one thing that is very important (in modern society) is physical weight. Keeping your body in shape takes a huge amount of work. Also, things like skin quality can be affected by your choices. I think I am blessed with good looks, but I can definitely tell the difference between when I work at it regularly and when I just go with it. It also takes some knowledge to know the right color schemes for face and all the tricks of makeup application. And clothing styles- knowing what looks good on you is a skill a lot of people lack. For me, I have trouble because I want to look good in certain colors, but I don't.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:With looks, one thing that is very important (in modern society) is physical weight. Keeping your body in shape takes a huge amount of work.
I keep my weight down for my health. I keep my body in shape so I can do the things I like and feel good doing them. I think one of the most screwed up things about modern American culture is that so many people see weight and fitness as being primarily about looking good when there are so many more important reasons to stay fit. At any rate, I strongly object to calling time spent on staying physically fit part of the time one spends on grooming.
quote:Also, things like skin quality can be affected by your choices.
No nearly as much as the cosmetics industry would have us believe.
quote:It also takes some knowledge to know the right color schemes for face and all the tricks of makeup application. And clothing styles- knowing what looks good on you is a skill a lot of people lack.
Those are things I think you can get in an afternoon with a talented beautician. I'm not saying you can learn them in one afternoon, I am saying that in an afternoon someone who knows those skill can make you look like you knew them. I think that any woman who is healthy, physically fit and blessed with a little natural beauty could spend several hours with a good beautician and look as good as the super model who spends hours on her looks every day. I believe that because I have observed it. Of course if you want to look that way every day, you'd have to spend those hours every day, but you can look that way for a night without doing it every day.
But being a great singer just isn't that way. Even a person with oodles of natural singing ability couldn't spend one afternoon practicing with a voice teacher and go on stage and perform like a star. I am reminded of a story
quote:A man once heard of a violinist who was supposed to play beautifully so he decided to go hear him. At the concert he was amazed at how this man played the violin and so he had to find him after the show and tell him how impressed he was. He went backstage and found him and complimented him and told him "I'd give my life to play the violin like that" to which the violinist replied "thank you, I did".
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Actually, with music I am much more willing to concede that point. Music takes a huge amount of work. I usually argue against intelligence being praised heavily. In my experience, being intelligent takes little to no work, but being pretty takes a lot. In high school, I would show up for class and get an A and then be praised. Several of my friends would show up for class, study several hours every day and get a C. I always found it strange that I got praised, even though I did no work. And then when I put in effort to look pretty, people would say I was being shallow because pretty is just something you are born with. The contradiction of being praised for something that took me no work (getting an A) and being slammed for something that took a lot fo work (looking good) always confused me.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I think that any woman who is healthy, physically fit and blessed with a little natural beauty could spend several hours with a good beautician and look as good as the super model who spends hours on her looks every day. I believe that because I have observed it.
You pick the woman with a little beauty, the beautician, and the day. I'll pick the supermodel. We'll let jebus judge the winner.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I'd say both musical talent and intelligence are similar, in that it's not just what you are talented at but how much you put into it.
Smart is a relative term. I know that one of the only times I got really, really mad at my dad was when he claimed I never excelled at anything I wasn't already talented at. He used both reading and music as examples....and completely missed the fact that I use to read 3-4 hours a day on my own, and I also practiced playing my flute 1-2 hours a day. Above classes in both.
I some company I seem really smart. In others, while I am not dumb I am not even close to being the smartest person in the room. I have known a lot of really smart people who went into difficult fields only to find out that they were only average in their field.
A lot of it is relative.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:I have a talent for singing, and it's always been something I've fixated on and used to help define myself: who I am, what I have to offer in this world has been inextricably tied to the natural abilities I'd always had. More and more recently I've become uncomfortable with compliments about my voice: isn't it the same as complimenting someone on their looks? Something outside of my control, that I've always had -- why would you compliment someone on that?
You think a professional singer or someone like Susan Boyle doesn't put a lot of work into his or her voice?
By this logic, nothing is worth complimenting them for, because, after all, Einstein simply had a "talent for math".
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:Whether its music, dance, art, writing or mathematics true greatness requires a lot more than natural talent. We are talking about years of dedication and hard work.
I'm not talking about greatness. I'm talking about natural ability.
quote:Based on what I've heard, Susan Boyle's singing is only partly natural ability...She has a great range, excellent control, dynamics and the ability to sing well in several different styles. That isn't a natural gift, its the result of hard work.
I wasn't talking about "Great" anything. Susan Boyle is not a "great" singer -- she has tremendous natural ability, the potency of which is heightened (apparently) when directly compared with her physical appearance. She was straining for a lot of those higher notes. Her breath support was spotty. Her diction was poor, and her vibrato forced, and she couldn't hit the lower notes of the song. NONE of this lessens the impact of that performance, and none of it is real criticism on my part -- but it is pointing out the fallacy in assuming she's put a lot of technical work into her voice.
I've sung that particular song many times, so I know the range and the feel of it. I've never had steady voice lessons in my life, and I've never taken my voice seriously as an instrument. I don't really want to get too much into the dynamics of my own relationship with singing, but suffice it to say the compliments I receive on my voice are not because of all the "hard work" I've put into my talent. It is this phenomenon that I'm railing against -- the idea that I could wake up in the morning and sing that song and have everyone tell me how tremendous it was when I wasn't doing anything special.
edit: I can tell I'm ticking people off, so I'll just add that I DO think there are great singers, and great thinkers, and great people in the world. I am concerned with the trend I have seen of appreciating those that DON'T put any time or effort into their gifts, that are just "doin' what comes naturally", myself included in this category. Again, I am not criticizing Boyle's performance, good on her! I'm speaking about the response to it. Please don't misunderstand my intent.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I think you give her too little credit. The thing I notice most about her singing is she tends to modify the vowels of her long notes. Her diction was otherwise decent, but not great. Her vibrato is not at all unusual for her age and a rich musical theatre sound. Some people have a lot of natural vibrato.
As for the low notes, she was bottoming out-- something that is to do with your natural voice (it's also about where I bottom out). On the top notes, she was doing as well as many belters would do. It wasn't out of tune.
She had a very slidey slight pitch issues at the end, but I would expect that with someone who doesn't have someone telling them how to sing.
As for breath support, sounded pretty solid to me. There was one time early one when her voice died away, but I'll put that down to nerves. It takes pretty cultivated guts to sing like that.
People aren't born singing like that. They practice. If you've sung I Dreamed A Dream "many times" then you have practiced.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:If you've sung I Dreamed A Dream "many times" then you have practiced.
Exactly. If you sang it like that the first time you opened your mouth and gave it a shot, then it's nothing but natural ability. If you sing like after years of singing, even if done without a teacher, then it's after practice.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I'd say both musical talent and intelligence are similar, in that it's not just what you are talented at but how much you put into it.
I have no problem with praising people for intellectual accomplishments, I just don't like when people get praised for simply being smart. For example, my friend is a math genius. In playing games with him and talking to him, that is obvious. But I wouldn't praise him for being a genius. I would praise him for the years he spent actually developing that intelligence though, the time he spent educating and expanding himself. Whereas I have met some Mensans who are unemployed (and kinda unemployable) and basically sit around complaining about how stupid everyone else is. The annoying guy is also actually very intelligent, but he hasn't developed it into anything useful.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I guess I just have a different definition of practice than y'all. Singing along with a CD multiple times in my car, and once or twice in maybe a recital or something, is not "practice" -- practice, to me, indicates specific intent. I don't warm up. I don't practice individual lines or notes. I just sing the song, maybe to remind myself of lyrics, but not focusing on form or support. If merely singing a song multiple times constitutes practice, then okay, I agree with you both.
I think you're giving me too little credit -- I'm not trying to drag her down or belittle her accomplishment.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Leonide, If you really aren't trying to drag Susan down, I am totally missing your point. You posted.
quote:I wasn't talking about "Great" anything. Susan Boyle is not a "great" singer -- she has tremendous natural ability, the potency of which is heightened (apparently) when directly compared with her physical appearance. She was straining for a lot of those higher notes. Her breath support was spotty. Her diction was poor, and her vibrato forced, and she couldn't hit the lower notes of the song. NONE of this lessens the impact of that performance, and none of it is real criticism on my part -- but it is pointing out the fallacy in assuming she's put a lot of technical work into her voice.
You've pretty much said straight out that she has only natural ability, that she hasn't put much work into it and that natural ability shouldn't be considered an accomplishment. If you didn't intend that to belittle her accomplishment, what was your intent because I missed it entirely.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with some of your critique, it is very presumptuous of you to think you can determine based on one performance that she hasn't put much work into her singing ability.
The fact that you can get compliments for singing this song without practicing does not qualify you to determine how much work another singer has put in to developing their voice.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I must not be expressing myself adequately, and for that I apologize. I brought my personal experiences into the equation because I've been wrestling lately with (like I said) concerns over being appreciated for things I had not worked to attain. This actually ties in with scholarette's point about commending intelligence; it was a school award that first started my navel-gazing, and I started to expand it to include my singing experience as well.
My initial point, which I thought I spelled out pretty clearly, was pointing out a trend, or a fear I have of a trend, of complimenting people for things they do naturally: i.e. talent, beauty, intelligence, etc.
quote:You've pretty much said straight out that she has only natural ability, that she hasn't put much work into it and that natural ability shouldn't be considered an accomplishment. If you didn't intend that to belittle her accomplishment, what was your intent because I missed it entirely.
I said it was a fallacy to *assume* she had put a lot of work into her singing, just because she sounds good. That was exactly what I said and exactly what I meant to say, and I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. My entire point in critiquing her singing was to provide evidence that she may not have had training, or worked to get where she is. I obviously have no idea whether or not this is the case.
quote:The fact that you can get compliments for singing this song without practicing does not qualify you to determine how much work another singer has put in to developing their voice.
I didn't do that. I commented on the weaknesses I perceived. I was not trying, as you so generously insinuate, to pat myself on the back -- in fact, I took great pains to avoid comparing my talent with hers. That wasn't the point of my posting at all.
I guess I should've gone with my initial instinct and not chimed in. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Susan's gone and had a make over . Not a major one, she reportedly spent 35 pounds on it (plus the cost of new clothes I presume).
I think she looks great.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sell out!!
Just kidding, I think she looks good, and damn, she got a decent looking leather jacket and a new hairdo for $50? That's pretty thrifty.
I think she looks great, and that she should look like whatever she wants to look like. That "makeover" isn't really that dramatic.
I'm watching the third episode right now of BGT. Can't wait for the semifinals.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I don't think the $50 included the cost of the leather jacket. I think that was the price for the hair cut and dye. That's still pretty thrifty. I don't know how prices run in scotland but you'd have a hard time get a cut and dye for that price in the states.
[ April 27, 2009, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I paid $90 for my last haircut, no dye job. Of course, my husband paid $10. I also cut off 6 inches (pretty dramatic change) so I went to a much nicer place then I normally would.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah that's what I was thinking, in regards to the price of the styling. I just figured the wardrobe was part of the makeover, and maybe she went to a Scottish thrift store or their version of the Salvation Army or some such.
You might say "who gives a leather jacket to a thrift store?" But I'm thinking of doing it. I bought a nice jacket last year, but we get a free leather jacket at work after being there 5 years, which sadly, I have been as of last month, and I'm thinking of donating it. They're really nice jackets, but I don't need two.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
Yeah, not remotely uncommon to find leather jackets in thrift stores. I have one I picked up for $5 at the local Christian Ministries place across the road from my office. (Of course, it then cost me $35 to have it professionally cleaned. . . .)
Leather in general tends to be in overly plentiful supply at thrift stores. From the number of leather pants and skirts I turn up at even the most hole-in-the-wall places, I tend to hypothesize that an astonishing number of women dream of wearing leather only to realize they're too shy to wear it in public once it's been bought.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I tend to hypothesize that an astonishing number of women dream of wearing leather only to realize they're too shy to wear it in public once it's been bought.
Or like many of the things you find in thrift stores, the original owner gained weight and couldn't wear it any more. That's particularly likely with leather since it lasts forever.
My husband rode a motorcycle for many years. He bought a leather jacket from a thrift store back in about 1980. He put in over a hundred thousand miles on the motorcycle wearing that jacket and its still in fair condition.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I suspect that she's made a bit of money either from her television interviews or an advance on a recording deal and so she's spending money treating herself to some of the things she's done without for years. She's been unemployed and so probably hasn't had money to spend on nice clothes or a trip to the beauty parlor. Many women would do exactly that.
It's not so much a make-over as it is finally having the resources to do things for your self you couldn't really justify when you were unemployed.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I pay about $50 pre-tip to get my hair dyed. It's actually $60, but that's with the long-hair charge, which she wouldn't have. I cut my hair myself because it's long, a simple cut, and paying to get it dyed every six weeks is a bit daunting.
I think she looks great, and, more importantly, she looks happy. More power to her.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I no longer have any doubts about whether or not she was the voice of that "Cry Me a River" track. She was rather sensational, and I don't think that's changed much. Talk about a diamond in the rough.
She still has some serious competition. There are a couple good child singers, a couple good adults singers, a bunch of really impressive dance acts, and a lot of crap too. But I don't think she'll get lost in the shuffle.
And the dance acts are really, really impressive. I love this show, though I feel like it's time to get past the auditions and on with the real thing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Susan Boyle is through to the semi-finals of Britain's Got Talent. She'll sing first off in tomorrow night's first semi-final. The format is that people call in for their favorite, who advances to the final round, and the judges pick their favorite as well, who advances to the final round.
She's up against:
Faces of Disco, a sort of comedy dance act. Natalie Okri, an adorable 10 year old soul singer. Diversity, an amazing street group with a great story. Sue Son, an electric violinist. Nick Hell, a weird sort of street performer. Julia Naidenko, a belly dancer, and one of the most gorgeous women I've ever seen. Darth Jackson, a Darth Vader and Michael Jackson impersonator.
From what I've seen, I think Sue Son, Susan Boyle, and Diversity will be the three big ones. Okri is a cute little girl and a halfway decent singer, but not as good, and Julia Naidenko is hot beyond belief, but hotness isn't a talent.
I was seriously disappointed that acts like Darth Jackson made it through at the expense of some other really, really great acts that I would have liked to see more of. There was a four man African themed dance act that was stunning, but lost to that guy. I understand the whole thing is, to a degree, fixed, but it was still disappointing.
Edit to add: Simba wa Africa is the four man African group that didn't make it. It's really too bad, I wanted to see more. Maybe they'll try again next year. I thought they were really, really impressive to watch.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Susan Boyle and Diversity got through to the final.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Any videos up yet?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Edited:
this link has it (i.e., Susan Boyle with "Memory")
[ May 24, 2009, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think they audience and the judges got it right, given the performances.
This link has all eight performances in order of appearance in HQ on Youtube, plus the results.
I thought Boyle started off weak, but was better than her competition. Diversity was great. Natalie Okri really did pick the wrong song, Sue Son was pretty decent, Julia Naidenko is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's just fine despite her loss. Darth Jackson, as expected, sucked. Nick Hell got buzzed off, and Faces of Disco was meh.
Preview for tomorrow (for anyone interested in the show beyond Susan Boyle):
I think there is more talent in this group than the last. Flawless is amazing, like I said along the lines of Diversity, and stand a great chance of advancing. James Pugh and Shaun Smith are both really good, but totally different singers, which makes me wonder how much of it will depend on their song choices and performances. DJ Talent and Peter Coughlin are awful and don't stand a chance in hell. The Hot Honeyz weren't one of the better dance groups, so unless they have something amazing planned, they're out too. Gareth Oliver is funny, so I'd call him a wild card, as is Merlin who might wow people if he comes up with something really shocking or amazing.
I still think the top three will be some combination of Flawless, James Pugh and Shaun Smith, maybe with Merlin and Gareth lurking behind them.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
I thought her rendition of "Memory" last night was really good... I was worried for the first 10 or 15 seconds that she was going to choke (started off pretty weak), but then she gathered herself and did magnificently.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Shaun Smith and Flawless went through to the final round. I'm glad Gareth Oliver came in third, he was really good. I think I was right about Smith and Pugh as far as song and performance go. Pugh picked the wrong song and sang it poorly, Smith picked a pretty good song and really ran away with it.
Off the top of my head, Kayode Oresanya is absolutely awful. He sounds sort of like a cross between a saxophone and someone killing a cat. The Barrow Boys are kind of funny but very plain.
Shaheen Jafargholi is the obvious odds on favorite. The kid is really good, and short of picking an awful song or really just bombing it, I think he'll win the public vote into the next round.
Everyone else...it's a weird mix. Floral High Notes is a ridiculous act. Like Ant and Dex said, it's like arranging flowers with the radio on in the background, but the women is actually a really, really good singer. If she dropped the flowers, she'd be great. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. Ben and Becky were maybe a little blah, but ballroom dancing can be really explosive. Harmony was okay. The girls are cute enough, and they sing quite well together, but what song will they pick, and can they do something big? MD Showgroup were pretty cool in the audition, but compared to Diversity and Flawless, it was a little plain. I think they'll have to really put on a show.
Then there's my personal favorite; Stavros Flatley. Those two are hilarious, and I wonder what they'll come up with next. If it's clever and funny, I could see them going on, but it can't just be a rehash of their audition.
I see Shaheen in the finals, with any combination of MD Showgroup, Stavros Flatley, and maybe Harmony. It'll be interesting tomorrow.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Off the top of my head, Kayode Oresanya is absolutely awful. He sounds sort of like a cross between a saxophone and someone killing a cat.
A friend of mine does a really crazy mouth trumpet. No matter how many times I hear him I'm always astounded at the sound. He even works in a beatbox sometimes which I'm not exactly sure how he does without breaking the laws of physics.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That guy is 100 times better than Oresanya. Did you watch the link?
I play the saxophone, and they even had a guy playing the sax on there as well, and he sounds nothing like anything I've heard. And that's not a good thing. I don't have a problem with the idea of people mouthing instruments, but they actually have to sound like the instrument they are impersonating.
That guy doesn't.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
oh yeah, sorry I didn't really make my intention clear. That Oresanya guy was terrible. I was providing the link to show that people can do mouth instruments, and sound good doing it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Ah, gotcha.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I was a little surprised that Stavros Flatley made it to the next round, but I liked their act tonight. It's sweet how you can see how much they love each other and how happy they were at the end. *sniff* Also, how funny is it that their backup dancers were employees at the family restaurant? (I think)
I agree that the Floral High Notes thing is kind of random. I have to assume that it's something the husband and wife can do and practice together as a couple - otherwise why would you combine those two things?? I think they had a good point when whoever said that the queen would probably like it, though. The rest of the royal family (and country), maybe, not so much.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was surprised to see Stavros Flatley go through too, based on that performance. I think their audition was better. I think Shaheen didn't pick the best song, and neither did Harmony. Oresanya was awful as predicted. MD Showgroup was pretty decent, but again, I liked their audition better. Ben and Becky were meh, the Barrow Boys were bad.
I'm hoping Stavros Flatley will put something really cool together for Saturday's show. A lot of groups do a repeat of their audition performance...and I think that might actually serve them well, or maybe doing something else Michael Flatley related and kicking it up a notch if they can.
To be fair though, based just on the performances, MD probably should have gone through over Stavros, but between Shaheen and MD, Shaheen might have had the edge.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The schedules are up for the last two semi-final performances. Tomorrow's looks pretty weak, again.
Fabia Cerra and Fred Bowers are both just awful. They have no business being there. Sugarfree is very middle of the road. Jackie Prescott and the Tippy Toes I don't remember seeing, but usually doggy dance acts don't do very well. The Brit Chix are also very middle of the road.
I think it'll come down to Aidan Davis, since apparently pre-teen breakdancers are very in vogue in Britain for some reason. Julian Smith, and 2 Grand. The thing about those last two is, Julian Smith's audition was actually pretty weak. I seriously could have done that. My intonation might not have been quite as good, but it wasn't at all a hard song to play. Will he do something more impressive this time? And 2 Grand is a grandfather/granddaughter singing act, where the girl is actually really, really good, and the guy is just awful. If Floral High Note couldn't get through with a good singer, I don't think they will either unless they dump grandpa. I see Julian Smith and Aidan Davis going through, barring any surprises.
Semi-final 5 is going to be loaded with talent though.
Callum Francis , a young singer/theater performer. Debbie Chapman Dancers, an all girl dance group. The Dream Bears, I won't waste your time with a link, they're an awful all male comedy group. Good Evans, a family singing act. Gregg Pritchard, a male soprano. Hollie Steele, a 10 year old singer. Luke Clements, weird juggler guy. Martin Macham, singer and guitar player.
If I were Callum, given his obvious penchant for theater, I'd do maybe something Gavroche related from Les Mis. The character lines up well with his personality, and he has a great accent and nice clear voice.
A couple people here just don't stand a chance, like Luke Clements and the Dream Bears, but the other six are either really good, or stand a chance of having a great performance. Martin Macham wasn't great in his audition, but I could see him picking a better song and coming up with something pretty good. Hollie Steele was adorable and great. If she picks a good song and nails it (unlike Natalie Okri), she could go on. Good Evans has a lot of good individual singers, like the mom (who despite the judges, I think is really good), and the kid, who is pretty good. The little girls are adorable, but they sing pretty badly together as a family. Gregg Pritchard is strangely entertaining, as you don't see many male sopranos, but I think he's good, and with a good performance could go on. Callum Francis is adorable and has exudes charisma. The DVD Dancers are compelling as well. If they dance well and don't just have gimmicky costume changes, they stand a chance.
Two of my major complaints about the show are that A. Great acts are left behind while utter crap makes it through. I can only imagine it's because it's rigged to a degree to send through certain acts that they favor. B. That there can be a night of crap, like tonight's, and like what night four looks like, and then have a night where several great groups (night five) are all clumped together and only two can advance.
I still like the show though, flaws and all. Even if parts of it are fixed and staged, and if talent scouts are combing the countryside to find these people instead of them randomly showing up (Susan Boyle, apparently), it's still largely about unknown people getting a shot at something bigger, and I've seen some crazy and impressive stuff. At the very least, it's entertaining, and it's not, mostly, low brow.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wow those last few episodes were pretty cool and also a little sad.
Hollie Steel broke down crying in the middle of Edelweiss, and then asked to sing again. She was initially told no by the producers, at which point she really let loose, but then Simon told her she could sing again, and apparently the producers weren't happy about that (leading them to have Ant and Dec say before the Final that NO exceptions would be made), but they couldn't very well overrule him on live TV like that. So she tried again and did a really good, job, and they sent her through to the next round. For a ten year old, that was pretty impressive I thought.
The finals were pretty tight, lots of great performances. But Diversity won, with Susan Boyle coming in second.
I was rooting for Diversity, and I'm really glad they won. Their main competition was Flawless, but I think Flawless had a really, really weak final, though I think their Semi-final was really good. They're both amazing dancers, but I think Diversity is just so damned creative, I'm glad they won!
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
From what I watched, it had to be either Susan Boyle or Diversity. Those two were on a level of their own. Everyone else was good (except that grandfather, who was merely sweet), and Stavros Flatley brought tears to my eyes, I was laughing so hard.
I would be sad for Susan Boyle, but she's probably already got a recording contract and she'll continue to have her dream of being a famous singer.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah the grandfather wasn't that good. His granddaughter was pretty good though. It'd be interesting to have her come back on her own next season.
Stavros Flatley already has offers for a number of engagements. And apparently Prince someone of Monaco wants Diversity to perform at a Red Cross benefit. It looks like no matter who won or lost, most all of them will find a way to make their talent pay off in the near future.
I've seen two news reports that both Boyle and Diversity are set for film deals detailing their lives and rise to stardom.
Susan Boyle: The Musical!
Diversity as a movie might not play well in America. Too many dance movies here lately, especially ones that focus on street dance, but if they played themselves in the movie, I'd go see it. They're compelling, have a lot of charisma, and it's not some "rise from the hood" movie like everything has been around here lately. The kids are still in primary school, and everyone else is in various levels of college, or grad school, or tech school. They dance for fun, not to escape stereotypical poverty. So I actually think it'd be really interesting.
[ May 31, 2009, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I am really really partial to Shaheen Jafargholi, I think he did an amazing job in both the semi and the final(not to mention his original audition), and personally think he out sang Susan Boyle on both of those occasions. I admit that Diversity's final performance was spectacular, and they probably deserved to win, but I think it should have been Shaheen standing up there with them.
Some stuff pre finals:
I think MD showgroup got robbed. Stavros is funny, and sweet, and entertaining but I thought MD showgroup put on a much better performance in the semis and I dug their message and it was sad to see Stavros breeze by on what is mostly a gimmick act. That's my personal opinion though, and Simon was right on when he said that what they do is make people happy, and there's nothing wrong with that. Shaheen breaking down when he got picked over MD was really touching.
I also think Callum Francis got screwed when they advanced 2 Grand. The girl is great, but the granddad is just wretched. And I think Callum(while not the strongest of singers) put on a few great performances.
Thank god for youtube, I just caught up on all the semi final performances over the last two days!
edit: oh, Hollie's breakdown was really difficult to watch.
[ May 31, 2009, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
I just watched the final, not having seen anything but a handful of YouTube clips (mostly Susan Boyle's) until now.
I loved, loved, lovedStavros Flatley. I was howling with laughter, and like Piers said, that was for all the right reasons. I totally would have voted for them had I been able to.
I agree that Shaheen was great, and that the grandfather in 2 Grand was the weakest link (but sweet).
That said, Diversity rocked. That win was well deserved.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I agree about Callum and about MD Showgroup. I thought MD was great, their energy was friggin amazing, and I liked their message.
I think Simon picked 2 Grand though because he felt that Callum was already good enough to succeed on his own, whereas 2 Grand would just plain be done if they didn't go on.
I was shocked really to see Diversity win. I thought that Flawless would split the dance vote, allowing a singer, likely Boyle, to win. I'm seeing tons of coverage in America of Boyle, and lots of comments saying she was robbed, but I think for anyone who watched it all the way through, it's hard to say that Diversity wasn't deserving.
I still think Stavros Flatley is hilarious, and the two of them are just infectious.
I'm glad they allow for entire episodes to be put up on YouTube, else people outside of Britain wouldn't be able to watch it. Simon remarked on the YT phenomenon and how the popularity of the show exploded, especially here in America, as a result. He plans to bring Susan Boyle over here because of her popularity, but I have to imagine he'll wait just a little bit. She still needs some polish, despite her naturally strong voice. She's still no Elaine Paige.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:I think Simon picked 2 Grand though because he felt that Callum was already good enough to succeed on his own, whereas 2 Grand would just plain be done if they didn't go on.
Yeah, he explained why he picked them, I just still disagree. You're right though that Callum would not have won the competition, and will most likely be fine on his own from here on out anyway. He's got a really natural sense of performance, and if he improved his voice a bit(which is already quiet good) could be spectacular.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Bad news today about Susan Boyle. I hope she recovers soon - between this and the little girl crying onstage, I'm starting to wonder what kind of presure this show puts people under.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't think this particular show puts people under any more pressure than any of the other copies of it do. There have been dozens of kids on the show of varying ages, some younger than Hollie, none of whom have broken down. And in other British shows like X Factor, or the American talent shows, I don't know of anyone who required hospitalization for stress.
I don't think the show puts people under any extra stress, but I do think the media and the public do.
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I just have friends who refer to AL as their "new gay boyfriend."![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Sounds like they'd be a setup for international fans. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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