This is topic Help: Men's formal attire in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/main/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=055283

Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
 
Hey, I'm going to the senior formal in a few days and I need help coordinating my suit. I have a sort of pinstriped gray suit, except instead of white pinstripes there's subtle black accents. I'm probably going to wear a white shirt. What color should my tie be, and should it be striped or solid?

I love that this is as much fashion as I have to think about.
 
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
 
The color of the dress your date is wearing.
 
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
I'm guessing black shoes; are you wearing a belt or suspenders?
 
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
 
Go with either a skinny black tie or a fat colorful polka-dotted tie.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
Technically, the suit you have describe doesn't qualify as formal attire in North Amercia. A tuxedo would be correct formal attire for men. What you are describing qualifies only as semi-formal.
 
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
 
Yea, I was gonna say skinny black tie
 
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
 
Oooh, if you add a vest and an ascot it would formal your attire right up.
 
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
 
Oh right, it should be the color of her dress (probably blue, if she doesn't ditz out for a new one before Saturday). Striped or solid? I know it's either supposed to coordinate with or contrast with my striped suit, which I'm wearing with black shoes and a black belt.

Isn't skinny black tie a casual thing? This outfit's for both my upcoming formal and commencement.
 
Posted by Trent Destian (Member # 11653) on :
 
If pinstripes are wide: Go for a striped tie that is subtle and blends well(two colors, three if you think you can pull it off).

If pinstripes are narrow: Go with a solid black tie, wide or narrow is your preference.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Pink bowtie.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Either works, but I would go with a subtle stripe if you choose that route.

Also, this IS formal wear. It's is NOT black tie which is a completely different beast. Not all formal wear is black tie.


Stay away from skinny ties, they are very 80's. I'd go with something either the same color of her outfit OR something that coordinates well with it.

For the record, I sold formal wear/business attire for 7 years.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
Also, this IS formal wear. It's is NOT black tie which is a completely different beast. Not all formal wear is black tie.
Please give a reference. Every reference I've been able to find would call this either semi-formal or pseudo formal.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
He IS the reference:
"For the record, I sold formal wear/business attire for 7 years."
 
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Every reference? What references are you reading? Check out such classics as "Color for Men" and you will clearly see broad classes of suits (which the one described probably qualifies under) classified as formal.
 
Posted by Epictetus (Member # 6235) on :
 
Match/compliment either her dress, her corsage, or your boutonniere. Based on what you've described, I'd personally stick with a black tie or one that is silver, or a darker/lighter shade of gray than the suit. I'd recommend stripes or a tie with a visible grain, but that's up to you.

Good luck! [Hat]
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
While you should certainly compliment her dress, the tie might do better to complement it. [Wink]
 
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
 
I thought black tie was not formal wear. White tie is technically formal. Black tie is semi-formal. This outfit sounds more like informal wear (like a nice business suit). Of course, that is using the more technically correct usage. Looking at dictionaries, it looks like common usage is to call informal wear formal and actual formal wear very formal.
 
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
How it all works is a little strange, due to a lot of line-blurring and differences between the US and Europe (in this case, Britain is the major counterpart).

In the US, formal clothing includes a lot more, but what is meant by a formal event is also usually less than what is meant by a formal event in Europe.

You're getting the idea with what you say from dictionaries; increasingly nowadays, especially in the US, what we mean by formal has decreased. Part of this is because the idea of formal has become available to people it was not previously available to. Even renting a white tie outfit of appropriate quality would be very expensive, so the events that are at the top of formality almost everyone will ever attend have trended towards the outfits that were previously 'informal' (such as the black tie tuxedo) but still evening wear for important social events.
 
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
 
Take this with a grain of salt, as it comes from a wedding-related Emily Post book (Do I Have to Wear White? by Anna Post):
quote:
For a formal wedding.... If the wedding is in the morning, the groom and ushers wear cutaways or morning suits, and in the evening they wear either white tie or tuxedo.
At a semiformal wedding.... The groom and groomsmen may wear a dark suit in the daytime, or a tuxedo or a dark suit in the evening.
At the informal wedding.... The groom and his attendents wear suits or a jacket, tie, and slacks.


 
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
 
My initial definition came from when I was planning my wedding. [Smile]
 
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
 
I am in favor of skinny black, but only if *you* are skinny. Skinny ties don't look good on people who aren't skinny.
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
Definition of formal wear


quote:
The American name tuxedo is taken from Tuxedo Park, New York, a private club of country houses founded by Pierre Lorillard, the tobacco heir. (The town of Tuxedo and Tuxedo Park themselves were named by the Lenni-Lenape Indians, who called the largest lake in the area tucseto, meaning either place of the bear or clear flowing water.)
link

I have to agree with Rabbit here, a business suit is semi-formal. Formal is either black tie or white tie, although it used to be explicitly white tie.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
It all depends on context. Formal wear for a cruise is different than formal wear for an elegant wedding or a royal reception.

Suits are still considered formal wear, although not as formal as black tie or white tie, or morning dress.

That is why if an invitation says formal wear, it usually (at least in the US) means at least a suit for a man. It will specify Black Tie if a tux is mandatory. Most of the time. [Big Grin]


One of the MOST formal occasions is a funeral of a loved one.....and a black suit is traditional.


Usually when talking about parties or events, Formal means a tux. When talking about normal every day life, for most of us a suit is as formal as it gets.

Semi-formal is still a type of formal wear, at least to most Americans. [Wink] Most American's will never wear a tux other than their wedding or their prom. A lot of them don't even wear them then.

Semi=formal in the US, at least to most American's, means a sports coat, dress shirt and a tie...although some people go trendy and skip the tie (not something I recommend).

[ April 23, 2009, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scholarette:
My initial definition came from when I was planning my wedding. [Smile]

[Big Grin] My aunt and I stumbled on that Emily Post book while chatting over wedding stuff in B&N the other night. So far, I've got at least half a dozen flags on questions (it's set up in question/answer format) for things I would have never thought of! It's great! We're going with morning coats, by the way, since it's an 11 AM ceremony. ;D
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
One of the MOST formal occasions is a funeral of a loved one.....and a black suit is traditional.
Strange thought. I've been to several funerals in different churchs, I even gave the eulogy at my MIL funeral. None of them have been formal in the least.
 
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
 
I think the consensus is, you're not going to be wearing your SpongeBob tie, Eddie, sorry. [Frown]
 
Posted by Sergeant (Member # 8749) on :
 
Fortunately for me, my choice in formal wear for most events for the next 14 or so years is decided.

I must say that the Air Force Mess Dress.

See example.

That's not me in the picture but the guy in the middle is wearing essentially the same uniform and I have except our accoutrements differ slightly.

Sergeant at Law
 
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Frisco:
I think the consensus is, you're not going to be wearing your SpongeBob tie, Eddie, sorry. [Frown]

Says who? I thought I was supposed to match my date's dress.
 
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
 
I'm still in favor of skinny ties (I just bought a few the other day).
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
One of the MOST formal occasions is a funeral of a loved one.....and a black suit is traditional.
Strange thought. I've been to several funerals in different churchs, I even gave the eulogy at my MIL funeral. None of them have been formal in the least.
Not if by formal you mean tuxes. [Big Grin]


I sold more black suits than any other, and the industry does as a whole, and almost all of them are for funerals. Usually just the family, but I have been to multiple funerals where over 90% of the men attending were in black or dark gray suits. It's the norm, as far as I have seen, although in recent years it has been changing.
 
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
What's interesting is that my husband and his co-workers went to a funeral (most of them did not know the deceased.) He wore a black suit, white dress shirt, and dark, solemn (like, not busy or silly) tie.

Most of his co-workers and indeed most of the male attendees wore much more casual clothing (black dress shirt and slacks, for example, or a dark blue shirt and dark grey slacks. Very few ties. The only other suits were apparently on the pallbearers.)

This is in direct contrast to funerals we attend at our church, where all the men are in dark suits and women in dark Sunday dresses or dark skirt suits with white or dark blouses (no bright/loud colors.) Similarly, if I were to take my children to a funeral I would consider it appropriate to have them in dark (black, grey, navy blue; no plaid, bright pink, yellow, etc.) or white (or black and white) dresses and good shoes. That is what I see children at at our church when they attend funerals. However, last time I attended a funeral at a different church, there were a few children, one or two in Sunday clothes but most in casual shoes, bright colors, not a dress in sight on the little girls. Adults were slightly more formally attired but not too much more.

Thinking about it, I wonder if it's a difference in what is usually worn to church in those denominations, compared to our church? Most men come to church in suits, white shirts, ties and women and children dress much more formally than I have seen in other churches (where it seems I mostly see people coming out in jeans and polos and the like.)
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Yeah, there is a shift to less formal clothing for funerals the past 10 years, although most people still do the formal dress. A lot of younger people specifically don't care for the more formal suits.

It is still a small percent of people who do the less formal wear though.


Hell, I remember when you didn't go to church in less than dress slacks, a dress shirt and a tie.....and more often than now you had a jacket on as well.
 
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
At my church, you still don't. [Smile]

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think losing formality in our culture is a mixed bag.

I still dress up (and make my husband and kids dress up) for family holiday dinners, too. It was foreign to my husband to do so but I think the tradition is very important (though we don't go as formal as for church, he does at least wear a dress shirt, tie, nice slacks-- what he'd wear to work; the girls wear pretty outfits or dresses and I wear nice slacks or a skirt and a nice blouse, which is what all the other women in the family wear too.)
 
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant:
Fortunately for me, my choice in formal wear for most events for the next 14 or so years is decided.

I must say that the Air Force Mess Dress.

See example.

That's not me in the picture but the guy in the middle is wearing essentially the same uniform and I have except our accoutrements differ slightly.

Sergeant at Law

My brother will be wearing such at my wedding in January. [Smile]
 
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
 
In general I wear dark suits/jackets. I have a few black, one charcoal grey, and one navy blazer. I also happen to have one chocolate brown suit and one plaid sky blue jacket. But mostly I stick with the black or charcoal. I haven't worn the navy in forever.

My feeling is that if you want color, then you can play with the ties or shirts. I have pink shirts, rainbow (which isn't nearly as tacky as it sounds, and is actually quite nice), etc. Also pocket squares. Can't forget those.

I'm told that my style of dress is very European (or at least British).

Edit: Today I am wearing a black 3 button Armani jacket, black jeans, black belt, black skinny tie, black shoes (seeing a pattern here?), and a nice fitted white shirt.
 
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
 
The good news--you do get to wear the "Sponge Bob" tie.

The bad news--it WILL match your dates dress.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
At my church, you still don't. [Smile]

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think losing formality in our culture is a mixed bag.

I still dress up (and make my husband and kids dress up) for family holiday dinners, too. It was foreign to my husband to do so but I think the tradition is very important (though we don't go as formal as for church, he does at least wear a dress shirt, tie, nice slacks-- what he'd wear to work; the girls wear pretty outfits or dresses and I wear nice slacks or a skirt and a nice blouse, which is what all the other women in the family wear too.)

I agree to a point. [Big Grin]

I remember my mom talking to me about this very idea a few years back. She is Roman Catholic, and she always dresses up for church. She still remembers when you didn't leave for church without a hat on.

They were living in Westerly, RI, and their church had just gone though a huge restoration project, which she had helped support. While she was in church after it reopened, a family of 5 walked in. They were dressed in shorts and bright colored summer shirts....beach wear, because Westerly is a beach community.

My mom was a little bit irritated at first, but as she thought about it she changed her mind. While she still dressed up out of respect, she realized that these people were probably on vacation, renting a house.....and despite not having formal clothes, they still cared enough to bring their boys to church at 8 am, while on vacation.


God doesn't care what you wear, probably....it's your neighbors who do. [Wink]
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant:
Fortunately for me, my choice in formal wear for most events for the next 14 or so years is decided.

I must say that the Air Force Mess Dress.

See example.

That's not me in the picture but the guy in the middle is wearing essentially the same uniform and I have except our accoutrements differ slightly.

Sergeant at Law

I've gotta say that (and, of course, no disrespect to any soldiers, sailors, or airmen intended) that is the ugliest military dress uniform I've ever seen. It's like a waiter's outfit and an airline pilot's uni had a torrid affair, and the resultant child outfit was thrown up on by medals. The only thing missing is a monocle.
 
Posted by sarah_9 (Member # 12143) on :
 
Hello,

Striped or printed tie would look better than solid tie, solid tie would make it too formal it is not suitable for your age.

Regards,
sarah_9

[Removed link. You are welcome at Hatrack, Sarah, but please don't use it to advertise your site. --PJ]

[ July 27, 2009, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
 
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Sarah, you just officially cracked me the heck up, and on your very first post, too.

Mazel tov!
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Solid tie would be fine too, and is one of the most popular options. Even back in April.

Sarah....welcome!
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
We welcome spammers now?

Yeesh.
 
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
We welcome spammers now?

Yeesh.

Welcome, rivka!
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
[Razz]
 


Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2