I've had it up to HERE with this already!!! (here is about 6 feet and 3 inches off the ground, btw).
So I'm a a really tall and skinny guy. 6"3, a waist between size 32 and 34 (33, right?) - and it is really annoying getting clothing that fits.
Bc I'm skinny, I fit nicely into Medium shirts - but they are waaaay too short as I have a long torso. Even large shirts are often too short for me (we're talking t-shirts here). XL is long enough, but waaaay too poofy for someone as skinny as I am.
In the button down realm (most of the shirts I wear) - I wear larges. Almost all are poofy when tucked in, and the form of my body is indiscernible when tucked out.
Even shorts are too short on me. GAH!
Anyone have any advice for me on this issue? I normally don't care, but I'm dating pretty seriously and it's starting to be something that I think about.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Big and Tall stores were designed specifically for you.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I know what you mean. I'm 6'1' and a 34 waist. So I don't have it quite as bad as you with the poofiness bit, but I had it bad enough that I went out and found a solution for myself.
Look for XL 'fitted' shirts. They keep the length you need but cut down on the poof. They're a bit more expensive but should solve the problem, I'd think. Then again, I'm definitely not a fashion guru, so if someone has better advice, heed their advice.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I have tall and skinny credentials as well, although I've slowly graduated past a 36 towards a 38 in the last several years. I find the fitted shirts to be a much better fit as well. JCPenney has had a sale on their Stafford brand for a while, and their fitted dress shirts work really well on me if I can find the right size neck and sleeve length.
I've found that a large fits me better than an extra large, now that I'm old enough not to want to hide my slim build.
The other option is going to a tailor, which might not be as expensive as you think, and will give you some clothes that really fit you nicely. You can look quite good in well-fitting clothes, even if you're not broad and muscular.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yeah, you're a 33 waist. And you have to learn how to mall shop for things you like, then run home and order the talls online. Most stores sell them that way. It's a pain, but you get used to it. And, in the future, you'll already know where to go. The other benefit to online clothes shopping is many stores offer free returns. It's time-consuming, but relatively risk-free.
I'm a chick, and I just found jeans with a 36-inch inseam at Victoria's Secret online. Bought four pair. Holla! But I do all the shopping for my 6'5", 34 inch waist hubby, and I do it the exact same way. I've never found B&T places that carry things for the Thin & Tall.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who complain that they're too thin for x. Considering clothing is made to look good on your kind much more than it's made for bigger people, despite changing demographics, I don't think skinny people have so much to complain about.
Now, I'm probably in the 99th percentile in terms of size and height, bulkier and wider shouldered than most people who are as tall as I am, so maybe I have an even harder time finding clothes that fit, but it's not right when I wear 38/34s that I should have to buy anywhere from large to triple extra large shirts and t-shirts, because no clothing store actually makes a cut that is designed to fit a man of my height and bulk. And lets not even get started about neck sizes- there's nobody who makes a shirt for my height with a neck wide enough. Probably that's worse these days because I live in central europe where everybody is slender or downright skinny, but I mean, why does one store carry a large that fits me perfectly, and (I'm not making this up) an XXXL that is too small for me to wear. I thought at first it was mislabeled.
Posted by Trent Destian (Member # 11653) on :
I concur on the advice to shop for what you like, then turn around and order the Tall version online. Only problem is though you have to not only pay for shipping, but you usually pay more for the tall version.
Department stores are usually not the place to go if you have a tall skinny build. I had your problems a lot when buying from say JCP or Sears (Dillards isn't so bad, just really expensive). Unless you get lucky with one of their "slim" cuts, in order to make them wearable you would need to get them altered. Go for one of the more trendy stores, they'll usually have sections with dress shirts that aren't splashed with annoying designs and ads that fit great for us as they were designed with the skinny in mind. Most times mediums are long enough for me at these kind of stores and I'm 6'2.5.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
It's okay, I don't have much sympathy for either of you, Orin. I reserve most of it for people with REAL problems.
Of course, this isn't a hug thread. It's an advice thread.
Edit: As for advice, one thing that hasn't been suggested but could solve everyone's clothing problems: become a nudist.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: It's okay, I don't have much sympathy for either of you, Orin. I reserve most of it for people with REAL problems.
I am not offended- I don't really have any sympathy at all for people who are not able to find products to buy. It's rather a rich man's problem to begin with. And anyway, I only shop for about an hour a year, so it's not like this problem plagues me week in and week out.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Trent Destian: Most times mediums are long enough for me at these kind of stores and I'm 6'2.5.
Really? Length is my biggest hastle, and I'm only 6"1, but a 46 at least at the shoulders on a bulky frame. You must be fairly slim to fit a medium at that height, so maybe the fit works for you- I pretty much always end up looking sloppy, either with the shirt too short or with it long enough but baggy in the middle, and tight at the shoulders.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
A little tailoring goes a long way. I'm 5'10" and I still get many of my shirts and pants tailored to fit better. Once you find a good tailor you can lots of things done fairly cheap. Yes, this will increase the overall cost but you will look many times better over an unaltered fit. Edit: Drycleaners usually do alterations and can be inexpensive as well
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: As for advice, one thing that hasn't been suggested but could solve everyone's clothing problems: become a nudist.
I've got another one: more cheeseburgers.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I've got a third: togas.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've recently learned something about fashion that some people won't want to hear, but it's working for me. I've got a very different body type from you but essentially the same problem: clothing is designed to fit a very narrow range of body type and most people don't have that type. You're very tall and thin. I'm very curvy. Like you, I can fit into a medium size shirt, but it falls strangely across my breasts. If I buy a bigger size, they're going for extra fat, not extra bust.
The thing I discovered about a year ago is that paying more for clothes is not just a matter of paying for a designer logo. More expensive clothing fits better. I know nobody wants to hear that and I sure get a lot of flack for it -- people insisting that I try spending hours hunting for labels at a thrift store -- but I'm not looking for labels. I'm looking for clothing that fits.
I now exclusively shop and Nordstrom's. I spend, on average, and often shopping sales racks, $30 a shirt. But they look sharp. I started getting people asking if I'd lost weight after I did this but no (though I'm trying), I just bought some clothes that look good and work on my body. Not all of them. I take an armload of clothing to the fitting room and discard 3/4 of it. I won't shop online. I've got to get in the store and look at it on my body.
I recently took my husband to the men's department there and got him some nicer clothing. We were having a lot of problems with his clothing simply wearing out after a few months of use. A $15 shirt isn't a bargain if you have to replace it every year.
I don't know where, exactly, you need to be shopping. I've seen big and tall stores for men and that might be a good place to start, but generally my advice is be willing to spend a little more money. Discount clothing isn't made to fit, it's made to sell.
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: I'm a chick, and I just found jeans with a 36-inch inseam at Victoria's Secret online. Bought four pair. Holla!
*high five* My favorite pair of jeans is from their website. I may only be 5'6" but 'regular' length always comes up short. Awesome jeans and pants. Nice find! Land's End also sells pants/jeans with longer in-seams for the next time you're looking.
But back on topic, though. Armoth, I think you've got some good suggestions here, knowing the little I've picked up from when my 6'3" skinny grandfather was alive and I could be found tagging along on shopping ventures with my mom or grandmom.
On a note of more encouraging nature, seriously dating one person or just focusing on getting into dating more regularly? I only ask because, having done a bit of serious dating with one very nice guy who still willingly admits he could use garanimals and who is just over 6-foot, it wasn't so much that he was a fashion guru (which he is not), but his winning personality and his willingness to make himself presenatable with what resources and means he had at his disposal. I realize not all women think this way, but it's my opinion that a winner of a female won't make too much of this. E for effort on your part, though!
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I'm very curvy. Like you, I can fit into a medium size shirt, but it falls strangely across my breasts. If I buy a bigger size, they're going for extra fat, not extra bust.
I hear ya, sister.
And very good point about paying for a better fit and better quality (materials, make) in general!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I've got a third: togas.
Bad advice -- a too-short toga is nobody's friend.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
If it's short, it's not a toga. A toga is the kind of garment the phrase "the whole nine yards" was spiritually (not historically) meant for.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:So I'm a a really tall and skinny guy. 6"3, a waist between size 32 and 34 (33, right?) - and it is really annoying getting clothing that fits.
I hate you on behalf of all fat men.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I hate you because I'm a hateful person.
Hate!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I hate you because I'm a hateful person.
*nods sadly*
True story.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I've recently learned something about fashion that some people won't want to hear, but it's working for me. I've got a very different body type from you but essentially the same problem: clothing is designed to fit a very narrow range of body type and most people don't have that type. You're very tall and thin. I'm very curvy. Like you, I can fit into a medium size shirt, but it falls strangely across my breasts. If I buy a bigger size, they're going for extra fat, not extra bust.
So... have you got like, a boyfriend, er, what's up, you know? How's it goin?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Orin, What is up with you lately? It seriously isn't necessary to post a nasty response in every thread. Did your girl friend just runoff with your best guy friend or have you just decided that bitter snarkiness is the new cool? If its the former (actually or metaphorically), I'm really sorry but you still shouldn't be taking it out on other people. It its the later, grow up.
Getting clothes that fit properly isn't some sort of rich mans problem. Everybody needs to wear clothes. If you are wealthy, you can have them tailor made and get a perfect fit no matter what size you are.
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is. Not being able to find clothes that fit is bad enough without having to deal with all the snide comments from so called friends.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Armoth, I second the advice about online shopping. There are companies that specialize in clothing for thin people and its much easier to find them online than in brick and mortar stores. If you google tall and thin, you will find lots of links to both stores and help sites for people with your problem.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I fall into a roughly similar mold, and I've found that stores that carry "Large Tall" sizes are also a bonus. Eddie Bauer has LT t-shirts, and Kohls often has LT sizes in things.
My difficulty is that if the sleeves are long enough, the neck hangs down below my collarbone, but if the neck fits, the sleeves are barely a third of the way from my shoulder to my elbow.
Fitted/Slim Fit shirts that you can order by neck/sleeve length are also a must for me.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Thanks for all the great ideas. It's true - I've had my worst-fit-clothing at places like Target, Marshals, and Old navy.
Some of my favorite shirts, like Christine suggested, come from Banana Republic. However, it took a sale and a gift certificate to get me to survive the heart attack of crazy expense of those shirts.
I'd still like a suggestion for great t-shirts. I was working out in the gym the other day wearing my threadless shirt and some cargo shorts - and it's one of the only places with full length mirrors. I realized, that despite how awesome I think the shirts are, they end too short on my body, and my shorts aren't long enough. It's frustrating, because I LOVE my threadless shirts!
Traceria - Thanks for the E! I meant that I'm dating more regularly. The girls I date happen to be really pretty - It makes me feel selfish if I don't bring my A game, know what I mean? ;-)
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
Wish I could suggest a male equivalent of Anne Taylor for you, for I so love the fit of their clothes.
I'm sure they'd all be pleased to know you think so. (Girls usually are, particularly when they try to deny it.)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Orin, What is up with you lately? It seriously isn't necessary to post a nasty response in every thread. Did your girl friend just runoff with your best guy friend or have you just decided that bitter snarkiness is the new cool? If its the former (actually or metaphorically), I'm really sorry but you still shouldn't be taking it out on other people. It its the later, grow up.
If you're referring to the last post, I was just trying to be funny. Perhaps I should have employed an emoticon?
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Nah. Orincoro hasn't directed his snarkiness at anyone - thus, it comes off as grouchy humor. I mildly enjoyed it.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
OH! IN YOUR FACE! VINDICATION!
It has all been worth it.
:eject:
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is.
That's a bit uncalled for.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: *high five* My favorite pair of jeans is from their website. I may only be 5'6" but 'regular' length always comes up short. Awesome jeans and pants. Nice find! Land's End also sells pants/jeans with longer in-seams for the next time you're looking.
And I also paid less than thirty dollars a pair. So, you know, I'm awesome.
Oh, and I second the sentiment that Orincoro has been more amusing than offensive in this thread.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by sarcasticmuppet:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is.
That's a bit uncalled for.
Really? Can you explain how? I think its a fairly factual expression of my personal experience. Please explain why you find it offensive.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
If you'd only said this:
"I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic people think it is"
I wouldn't have had an issue. Or even, "...my acquaintances think it is", which would probably have been more factual in terms of your actual experiences.
But no, you brought in the highly general "fat people", as in, what, all fat people? Fat people who get plenty of shame and humiliation from everyone else already, thank you. What you said is akin to the classic white American trick of saying to minorities "No guys, really, I'm totally oppressed too!" and does not win you any points at all.
I don't doubt you have been hurt in the past by people being flippant about your shape. It's an unfortunate consequence of being a human being (particularly a female human being) in this day and age. But in a world where thin=healthy, your life probably WAS a picnic, because you weren't constantly being judged as an unhealthy, cake-eating blob on a daily basis.
You can't really know for sure the relative picnic-ness being thin compared to not being thin, unless you maybe spend an equal amount of your life overweight, and compare the experiences. Which is silly, and also tends to be pretty difficult.
Hence, my comment.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
sarcasticmuppet, I've personally experienced a lot more direct insults, tasteless jokes etc. from fat people in my life than any fat person I know.
Among women in the US, it is absolute taboo to say anything that might suggest you think a friend or even acquaintance is overweight, where as everyone and her dog, from total strangers to close friends, thinks its fair game to insult you for being too skinny. At least that's my experience.
quote:I don't doubt you have been hurt in the past by people being flippant about your shape. It's an unfortunate consequence of being a human being (particularly a female human being) in this day and age. But in a world where thin=healthy, your life probably WAS a picnic, because you weren't constantly being judged as an unhealthy, cake-eating blob on a daily basis.
Every single day of my teenage years someone made a tasteless joke about how skinny I was. Every single day. And I'm not talking about comments I thought people were making behind my back, these were insensitive jokes made straight to my face. Every single day. As an adult, I got frequent comments about being too thin from everyone from close friends to complete strangers. The fact you think that was a picnic, just proves my original statement true. If I ever dared to express my frustration about something like never being able to find clothes that fit or having difficulty gaining weight to a friend, I was mocked. The phrase 'I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who complain that they're too thin for x.', hit a nerve with me because with the exception of the few people who've stuggled with being too thin, nobody ever does.
Yes, I understand that being overweight is no picnic either. Fat people get my sympathy even though I've never been overweight. But fat people seem totally oblivious and are usually utterly unsympathic to the down sides of being too thin and are completely willing to say so to your face. And the fact that you can post here saying that what I experienced was in fact a Picnic, just proves my point.
[ July 30, 2009, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Edit: written before Rabbit's post.
I don't think dismissing her feelings as invalid ("your life probably WAS a picnic") is going to help things any, unless you were trying to prove her point for her.
I agree that her comment was worded in an inflammatory way, but your post kind of goes off the rails, IMO.
quote:You can't really know for sure the relative picnic-ness being thin compared to not being thin, unless you maybe spend an equal amount of your life overweight, and compare the experiences.
Wouldn't that work in both directions?
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Having been too skinny and too heavy, I'd much rather be too skinny.
Back when I was single I dated some skinny skinny girls and some skinny skinny boys. They were both very... (how can I say this without getting in trouble?)... uh... pleasant.
(Of course, normal weight and heavy are both fine and dandy too. My hubby is a big guy and I'm loosing some weight. Just for me, I'd rather be skinny than heavy. Just as I'd rather be brunette than blonde, short than tall, and cute than beautiful.)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
It's not a question of whether its better to be too skinny or too fat. Its about whether you are able to understand that there are downsides to both and willing to empathize with people who have the opposite problem.
I'd rather be a skinny than fat, but one must also consider that there is also an issue of degree. I am currently about 5 pounds heavier than I'd prefer to be, but I vastly prefer my current weight to the way I was during my nearly 4 decades of being seriously underweight.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: It's not a question of whether its better to be too skinny or too fat. Its about whether you are able to understand that there are downsides to both and willing to empathize with people who have the opposite problem.
I'd rather be a skinny than fat, but one must also consider that there is also an issue of degree. I am currently about 5 pounds heavier than I'd prefer to be, but I vastly prefer my current weight to the way I was during my nearly 4 decades of being seriously underweight.
Nobody here is talking about being 5 pounds overweight. They're talking about being 20, 30 and more pounds overweight. There seems to be a larger social stigma attached to that in modern times. Aside from the health effects, which are serious, overweight people are stigmatized to a much greater degree. I'd say between a person who is even at a healthy weight, but looks big, and a person who is at an unhealthy low weight, the unhealthy but low weight person will be taken as healthy. The lightest I've ever been at my height is 190, and on my frame that is a very lean and strong profile. I still got called fat because I'm so big. In fact, there would be almost no way for me, at my physical stature, to not be considered fat- I would have to be unhealthily lean. Christian Bale, as an example, is a couple inches shorter than me and weighs significantly less, but even when he was 200 pounds for Batman Begins, if you put him in a loose fitting t-shirt in the wrong light, you'd swear he was a fat guy.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Rabbit: well, I was cold a lot when I was really really skinny. And I was weaker. I got some extra muscle with my extra weight.
But that was easily outweighed by the fact that I liked (at least in regards to weight. I've never been particularly attractive) what I saw when I looked in the mirror.
As for clothes... well, I was an imperfect body shape before (my legs are actually shorter than my torso among other ghastly mutations) and I'm an imperfect body shape now. I've never been able to buy off the rack.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Nobody here is talking about being 5 pounds overweight. They're talking about being 20, 30 and more pounds overweight.
Nor was I, read more carefully. It isn't question of whether or not its better to be 5 pounds over your ideal weight or 5 pounds under. It isn't even a question of whether its better to be 100 pounds over your ideal weight or 30 pounds under your ideal weight. Its a question of whether you can have sympathy for people who have problems you don't.
I was 20% to 30% under weight for most of my adult life. I have yet have anyone who struggles with being even a little over weight demonstrate that they can empathize with the problems of being under weight. In fact, rather than showing sympathy most people argue about whether my problem was even real. This thread has yet do anything to change that.
[ July 30, 2009, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Rabbit: well, I was cold a lot when I was really really skinny. And I was weaker. I got some extra muscle with my extra weight.
What do you consider really really skin? I had a BMI of 15-16 for most of my life. I had to gain 22 pounds (10 kilos) to reach the lowest end of what is considered 'normal weight' and what most people consider to be really thin.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
They didn't have BMI back then but using a BMI calculator I just found my BMI was 17.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Well, I wouldn't have gone the direction that sarcasticmuppet went with his explanation of your comment, Rabbit, because I would never try to tell you how picnic-y your life has been compared to anyone else's. Nevertheless, I was hurt by your comment. I teetered on the edge of saying anything because I was sure your comment was made out of personal feelings of hurt and was not intended to hurt anyone else, least of all me. But it did hurt me to read it. I'm fat. I've always been fat, even when I wasn't.
The accusation that fat people are mean to skinny people is not new. I had written out more, but then I decided that doing so would ensure we got into a who's been wronged more contest, in which there are no winners -- only losers. Suffice to say that the issue sarcasticmuppet and others may have had with your post was a generalization that read like a stereotype...one that I've lived with my entire life.
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Nobody here is talking about being 5 pounds overweight. They're talking about being 20, 30 and more pounds overweight.
Nor was I, read more carefully. It isn't question of whether or not its better to be 5 pounds over your ideal weight or 5 pounds under. It isn't even a question of whether its better to be 100 pounds over your ideal weight or 30 pounds under your ideal weight. Its a question of whether you can have sympathy for people who have problems you don't.
I was 20% to 30% under weight for most of my adult life. I have yet have anyone who struggles with being even a little over weight demonstrate that they can empathize with the problems of being under weight. In fact, rather than showing sympathy most people argue about whether my problem was even real. This thread has yet do anything to change that.
I think the most offensive thing about your original post is that you referred to yourself as "underweight" but overweight people as "fat." Frankly, it was rude, which is why I believe that it was pointed out that rudeness was unnecessary.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I thought it was rude as well, but someone nursing a grievance who is sure they win they win the Oppression Olympics isn't going to listen if it's pointed out.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: sarcasticmuppet, I've personally experienced a lot more direct insults, tasteless jokes etc. from fat people in my life than any fat person I know.
If you regularly go around calling them "fat people", I'm not surprised.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: sarcasticmuppet, I've personally experienced a lot more direct insults, tasteless jokes etc. from fat people in my life than any fat person I know.
If you regularly go around calling them "fat people", I'm not surprised.
Why would you conclude I ever go around calling them fat people? As I noted before, I learned at a very early age that calling people fat or even acknowledging that an individual is fat is socially unacceptable. Even if a woman says she wants to loose weight, you are supposed to say she doesn't really need to.
Is it now socially unacceptable to acknowledge that fat people even exist? Or are you suggesting that its rude of me to notice that a friend or aquaintance is 80 pounds over weight, even if I never say anything about it? Apparently, even on an internet forum when someone self identifies themselves as a fat person, it's rude of me to acknowledge that?
And you can't see why I think people don't show enough empathy to skinny peoples problems.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Armoth, Have you looked at European chains? My experience with them is that they tend to cut their clothes very skinny, even their XLs.
Honestly, and this may be a factor of you talking primarily about t-shirts and the different places we get clothes, but I surprised a bit by your problem. I've got kind of the opposite. My torso is a large (I'm 6' with a...well, I'm not sure exactly what my waist is but I wear 34" pants confortably), but my shoulders run from 44-46 inches depending on how much weight training I'm doing and I have a very hard time finding shirts that fit my torso that aren't extremely tight across the shoulders. And this seems to me because designers are specifically making clothes for skinny guys whereas someone like me with an bulkier athletic build is not really a target.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I think the most offensive thing about your original post is that you referred to yourself as "underweight" but overweight people as "fat." Frankly, it was rude, which is why I believe that it was pointed out that rudeness was unnecessary.
I used the term seriously underweight to make it clear that I was talking about an unhealthy conditions. Skinny is too often used to refer to people who would be considered 'normal weight' by medical doctors.
When I see some one here indicate they are even trying to empathize with skinny people, I'll worry about whether or not my choice of words was unnecessarily insulting.
So far, most everyone who has responded has pretty well proved my point. People who think of themselves as 'fat' rarely show any sympathy for people struggling with the opposite problem.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
The problem I had wasn't that you used the word fat. It's the right word to use sometimes, after all. The problem is that you then made a stereotypical comment about all fat people being against you. And you continue to go on to claim that we don't understand "skinny people problems."
Well, I guess I don't. I haven't been there and I never will, so I can't empathize. If you want sympathy, you can try to share your hurt in a compassionate way that does not villainize the rest of us.
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
And yet, by referring to overweight people as "fat" in your original post, rather than gaining any sympathy for people who have the opposite problem, you alienated yourself, by offending many of the people in this thread. Perhaps a better choice of words would have brought more empathy and less hostility.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
A male friend of mine wore a dress one day when he in college (I think he lost a bet or something). He's a tall guy, at least 6'3, and pretty fit.
Some of the girls he hung around with asked him what size the dress was. He told them it was a 14 and they responded with "Oh....well, you're really tall."
He says that made him feel a little self conscious.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I think the most offensive thing about your original post is that you referred to yourself as "underweight" but overweight people as "fat." Frankly, it was rude, which is why I believe that it was pointed out that rudeness was unnecessary.
I did not realize that f*t had become a politically incorrect term like n***r and was rude to use even in a general reference. The funny thing is that my overweight friends use the word 'fat' to describe themselves. If I had called myself 'fat', no one would have batted an eye. Maybe it really is like n***, and fat (woops, I should have said overweight) people can say the word but not skinny people. I guess its just considered rude for a skinny person to ever say anything about weight or to be anything but gushingly sympathetic towards people who are overweight. Skinny people don't get the same consideration.
Suppose someone had entered the weight loss thread and said 'I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who complain that they're too fat for x.' Do you think anyone would have shrugged it off as a joke? Do you think the responses would have been less offensive than my response to Orin?
quote:Well, I wouldn't have gone the direction that sarcasticmuppet went with his explanation of your comment, Rabbit, because I would never try to tell you how picnic-y your life has been compared to anyone else's. Nevertheless, I was hurt by your comment. I teetered on the edge of saying anything because I was sure your comment was made out of personal feelings of hurt and was not intended to hurt anyone else, least of all me. But it did hurt me to read it. I'm fat. I've always been fat, even when I wasn't.
Christine, I'm sorry my comment offended you, it was not directed at you or any hatracker (except perhaps Orin). I have never met you and had no idea you were overweight. I have only met a handful of hatrackers and don't remember any of them as being fat. I'm sorry if you took my comment personally, it was not intended as such. I'm sorry if I hit a nerve. You actually did show a great deal of sympathy for Armoth's difficulties in finding clothes that fit and your initial restraint in responding to my post also illustrates an effort to empathize with someone who doesn't share your problem. Thank you, its appreciated.
[ July 30, 2009, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I spent most of my life seriously under weight and it isn't anything near the picnic fat people think it is.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: sarcasticmuppet, I've personally experienced a lot more direct insults, tasteless jokes etc. from fat people in my life than any fat person I know.
If you regularly go around calling them "fat people", I'm not surprised.
Why would you conclude I ever go around calling them fat people?
That fact that I've seen you do it twice in this thread is what makes me think that you might habitually call those who are overweight "fat people".
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I guess its just considered rude for a skinny person to ever say anything about being weight or to be anything but gushingly sympathetic towards people who are overweight.
I really hope that this is over-the-top sarcasm.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:That fact that I've seen you do it twice in this thread is what makes me think that you might habitually call those who are overweight "fat people".
I give up!!! Look at the context. Orin started off by saying he had no sympathy for the problems of thin people. Substitute whatever your problem is into that sentence, and then tell me my response was rude and unwarranted.
I should have never brought it up. I learned a long time ago that even when I was lying in a hospital having seizures because of malnutrition, fat (excuse me I mean 'over weight') people would be unable to show any sympathy for my plight.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I'm actually somewhat confused here.
Is it being argued that it is incorrect to call someone a "fat person" as a descriptor? Is the word offlimits?
If so, that's news to me. Seems like an unmarked landmine that Rabbit accidentally stepped on. I hear the word used so often as a self-descriptor that I didn't realize it carried such pejorative impact.
Would obese be preferred? Overweight isn't exactly useful, because while I'm medically overweight most everyone I know would describe me as "skinny" or "thin". Would "severely overweight" be better?
I'm really trying to understand what words are offlimits in the discussion before I wade in.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Is it being argued that it is incorrect to call someone a "fat person" as a descriptor? Is the word offlimits?
I would like to reiterate that I did not call anyone a fat person.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:I should have never brought it up. I learned a long time ago that even when I was lying in a hospital having seizures because of malnutrition, fat (excuse me I mean 'over weight') people would be unable to show any sympathy for my plight.
You put people in a difficult position here, Rabbit. I would like to sympathize with you for having such difficulties with being under weight, but the hostility and resentment make it difficult to express any. Just the same, I'm sorry your digestive problems were so severe, and that people have been mean to you about being too thin. I think you'll probably get even more sympathy if you find another way to talk about your problems without setting yourself up in opposition to overweight people.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You certainly did. You may not have called an individual Hatracker fat directly, but you definitely linked a negative trait with every fat person who had ever talked to you.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: You certainly did. You may not have called an individual Hatracker fat directly, but you definitely linked a negative trait with every fat person who had ever talked to you.
Why is that when I said fat people, the rest of you insist that I intended and 'all' or 'every' in front of it? In the English language when someone say 'Americans are patriotic' or 'Chinese people like to eat at restaurants', its widely understood that they are talking about many or even most but certainly not every single American or Chinese person without exception. That interpretation is reserved for occasions in which people have chosen to justify an offense that was not intended.
Consider the context. If Orincoro had said 'I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who complain that they're too fat for x.' what would you have considered an appropriate response? Would you have taken offense at a response that indicated skinny people needed to have more empathy for over weight people.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: You certainly did. You may not have called an individual Hatracker fat directly, but you definitely linked a negative trait with every fat person who had ever talked to you.
How is saying that a group of people possess some negative trait equivalent to calling someone a member of that group? I'm not following the logic there.
If you found my comment an attack on you, its because you think of yourself as a fat person. I've certainly never thought of you as a fat person nor have I said anything in this thread or elsewhere on hatrack that would indicate I thought of you as a fat person.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:I should have never brought it up. I learned a long time ago that even when I was lying in a hospital having seizures because of malnutrition, fat (excuse me I mean 'over weight') people would be unable to show any sympathy for my plight.
You put people in a difficult position here, Rabbit. I would like to sympathize with you for having such difficulties with being under weight, but the hostility and resentment make it difficult to express any. Just the same, I'm sorry your digestive problems were so severe, and that people have been mean to you about being too thin. I think you'll probably get even more sympathy if you find another way to talk about your problems without setting yourself up in opposition to overweight people.
Did you sense that hostility and resentment in my first post, or only after I'd been dogpiled on for using the phrase 'fat person'?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Rabbit, how about you just apologize for labeling all fat people everywhere with the horrible negative trait of not sympathizing with you as much as you feel you deserve?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I never used the phrase 'all fat people everywhere' and I did not mean to imply 'all fat people everywhere'. I apologize if people interpreted my generalization to mean 'all people fat everywhere.', it was generalization based on my personal experience. I should have made that more explicit.
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
Actually, it has a lot to do with how you phrased your first post in this thread. You use the phrase "underweight" to describe yourself because you have a medical condition, and I suspect, because you also have negative associations with the word "skinny" as a result of the teasing you have referenced.
However, despite the fact that many overweight people also have medical conditions and negative associations with the word "fat" due to teasing that they have received, you did not give heavy people the same consideration that you gave yourself.
I am underweight but they are fat. This is how it was read and interpreted by many, whether or not that is what you intended.
Edit: This post was typed and submitted before Rabbit's response above.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Did you sense that hostility and resentment in my first post?
A little bit, yes.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: kat, I never used the word all people everywhere. I did not mean to imply all people everywhere and I appologize if people interpreted my generalization to mean all people everywhere.
Satisfied
This works for me.
BTW, I went back and looked at Orin's post -- the one that you responded to when all this hubbub started. I can see why it offended you. It made me roll my eyes because I knew better. I'd had the false impression that skinny people had an easier time buying clothes before I chose bridesmaid dresses for my wedding. I had 4 girls with vastly different body types....short and fat, tall and fat, short and curvy, tall and thin. It was the tall and thin girl who was the hardest to find a dress for. Not that any of the body types were easy to fit. We all shared our shopping woes and I realized a few things about shopping:
1. Know your body and don't be tempted to buy something just because it's in style.
2. Be willing to spend time and try things on. What looks good on the hanger may not look good on you, not even when you get more practiced at this.
3. Salespeople are trying to sell clothes, not make you look great. Don't ask for their opinion. If you need a second opinion, bring someone with you who will be honest.
4. Don't keep shopping at the same stores if you've had bad luck there. This is especially true of places that have clothing that looks good on you in the store, but doesn't wear well or ends up drifting to the back of your closet fairly quickly.
5. Return to stores and designers that stand up to the test of time.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by andi330: Actually, it has a lot to do with how you phrased your first post in this thread. You use the phrase "underweight" to describe yourself because you have a medical condition, and I suspect, because you also have negative associations with the word "skinny" as a result of the teasing you have referenced.
However, despite the fact that many overweight people also have medical conditions and negative associations with the word "fat" due to teasing that they have received, you did not give heavy people the same consideration that you gave yourself.
I am underweight but they are fat. This is how it was read and interpreted by many, whether or not that is what you intended.
I think you are nitpicking. As I explained earlier, I chose the phrase 'seriously underweight' to make it clear that I was talking about something other than thin and healthy. It was not an attempt to make my position sound more desirable, it was exactly the opposite. Skinny and thin are often perceived as desirable in our culture. I don't consider skinny an insult even though I was teased about it mercilessly. I thought it would be difficult for people to interpret 'seriously underweight' as a desirable state. When I chose the term 'fat people', I was actually thinking not about people who are over weight from a medical perspective but people who see themselves as fat and struggle to loose weight. In my experience, at least some of those people aren't over weight from a medical stand point. But I have very frequently found myself the object of envy from people who struggle to loose weight and I find it rather bizarre when people envy someone for having an incurable disease. When people routinely tell you they wish they had your uncurable disease, its pretty clear they are lacking empathy. When envy keeps you from having sympathy for the legitimate problems of other people, its a very bad thing.
I'm sorry that my wording was so offensive no one could see my point. I must say I was utterly surprised that anyone but Orincoro would take the comment personally. Evidently I am not fully capable of empathizing with people who think they are fat either.
[ July 30, 2009, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: [qb] kat, I never used the word all people everywhere. I did not mean to imply all people everywhere and I apologize if people interpreted my generalization to mean all people everywhere.
Satisfied
This works for me.
Thank you Christine. You have been consistently gracious and obviously do try to empathize with those with a different body type. That was evident even before I made my statement and I'm very sorry you were hurt by it.
It is pretty clear that I don't fully understand how the phrase 'fat people' is heard be those who think of themselves as fat. I'll try to be more conscious of that in the future.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Some of my favorite shirts, like Christine suggested, come from Banana Republic. However, it took a sale and a gift certificate to get me to survive the heart attack of crazy expense of those shirts.
If you sign up to be on the Banana Republic mailing list, they email coupons at least twice a month. H&M is another store that has a slim fit and that is very inexpensive.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I'm still searching for an acceptable term, or to understand what are unacceptable terms.
"Fat people" caused a stir, and was taken as an pejorative. "Overweight people" suffers from over-generality and a lack of degree.
For those that took offense to the "fat" descriptor... what is the preferred alternative? Significantly overweight? Severely?
What is the appropriate adjective for someone who struggles with being well above average weight and is struggling to lose weight?
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Wow. I seem to have started a full-scale thread drift. I apologize to the OP.
Rabbit, you asked me to explain why I thought your comment was offensive and I told you. It's gone beyond that, but that was the purpose of my post. You got defensive at that point, and I apologize for causing duress. More than anything else I said before, I think I reacted to your very initial statement as something of a "fat people are mean to me because they are jealous", whether or not that was intended (which it seems it wasn't). I opted for the polite-but-curt "that was a bit harsh" post. You were the one who asked me to clarify what I meant.
I can get on a roll with this if allowed, but I won't. Just let it stand that I am very much in favor of body acceptance, nomatter what your size. Fat is a descriptor, not a stereotype.
So, how's about them skinny guy shirts?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
sarcasticmuppet, I asked you to explain why you thought my comment was offense because I really didn't see why what I said was an inappropriate in the context of Orin's original statement. In that context, your explanation of pretty much boils down to, 'I found your comment offensive because skinny people really don't deserve any sympathy from overweight people.' And yes, I found that an extremely offensive thing to say. If what you said is an honest and well articulated explanation of why you were offended, then I don't regret offending you. Thinking that anyone doesn't deserve sympathy for their legitimate problems is just wrong. 'I think my problems are bigger than yours so you get no sympathy from me,' is a rather selfish, unkind and offensive attitude. Perhaps that isn't what you meant, but it is what you said.
We don't have to compete over whose life is more picnicy than the other. It is possible to have sympathy for others even when we don't share the same problems and even when we have bigger problems ourselves.
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