So far I think this HP laptop is the best one futureshop has, unfortunately do to the byzantine process inwhich we have to purchase it were unable to simply order from Tigerdirect. As we were given about 1150$ money by the government to pay for to replace a pentium II from ten years ago that was damaged in the flood but only from Futureshop.
I really wish stores had better selection!
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
That's nice. Why is the money only for Futureshop?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Futureshop apparently controls the Canadian government.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I always suspected as much.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Even at storefront prices, you can probably get a good enough laptop for $1150 instead of buying the $1500 one. This one looks great. For $950.
I'm guessing you don't really need quad core. Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Futureshop apparently controls the Canadian government.
Could be worse. Could be Circuit City.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Even at storefront prices, you can probably get a good enough laptop for $1150 instead of buying the $1500 one. This one looks great. For $950.
I'm guessing you don't really need quad core.
The problem here is this I am not aiming for "good enough" I am aiming for something better then good, something worth the money I throw at it so that when the next game comes out I am not horribly behind. The only answer to this sadly and inefficiently is to throw money at the problem until it goes away.
The idea is this:
-Quad core for supreme commander, compiling code fast, and programing applications with multithredding.
-fast video card for games, CUDA, and graphic design.
the HD4650 I think is the best card in the class 2 series I can reasonably get for a laptop so that is the one I want. I dont mind a Duo Core per se especially if technically for most applications it will run it is in fact at a faster clock speed or some other improvement for the vast majority of applications but still, quad core if I can.
The idea is I have 1150$ in theory from the gov't, and I am making 900$ from work so I am thinking I can spare 450$ of that to make my budget 1600, so I need something I can hopefully afford the taxes on more or less.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Fail. My computer expert friend says thats a terrible chip.
quote: Due to the improved memory controller and having double the L2 cache capacity (Ultra) the Turion X2 should perform better than an equally clocked Turion 64 X2. However, it is clearly outperformed by the Core 2 Duo. In terms of performance it is rather comparable with a Core Duo respectively a Pentium Dual-Core processor.
You can definitely get more laptop than you need for $1150 or less. Gaming or otherwise.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Doubtful, most recent games won't run with a decent framerate on most 1000$ laptops and most laptops in that price range are either too small for me or have an intel gfx card. I have bad eye sight so I need a screen preferably 16"+ and I also would like a laptop that can last a little longer before being obsolete.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Might be a slight chance I can get a computer from a place besides the name brand stores, any suggestions if I live in Canada?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Blayne, why do you need a laptop to play games? Why not buy both a game-playing desktop and a small netbook for carrying around? The two machines would probably cost you less, and you could upgrade the components of the desktop in the future instead of buying a whole new whiz-bang PC every two years.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That's a very smart idea, one I almost did for school a few months ago. I compromised, and bought a decent laptop with a smaller screen, but the money I saved NOT getting a gaming laptop will MORE than pay for an upgrade to my desktop in 5 months when I graduate.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
my desktop is sufficiently advance to still last me a few more years, the ability to game on my laptop is important yes as itld allow me to more easily go to lan parties but theres many education related reasons why a good one is required, CUDA programming, faster compile times, graphic design etc.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Your graphics card doesn't need to be particularly good to run CUDA on it, and your compile and graphic design experiences would not be noticeably better on a $1500 laptop vs a $1000 one.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I also require a somewhat large laptop as laptops with small screens hurt my eyes and I haven't found a 1000$ish laptop with a HD4650 on it.
However depending on my options I may be able to get something with a different cpu a Core2 Duo instead of a Quad, same video card and ram but on a large screen 18" for ~1300 from bestbuy.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
18 inches on a laptop? Might as well carry around your desktop.
The one I linked you to has a 4650 for less than $1000. (though it does run hot according to reviews.) And a 16 inch screen which is not 'small' by laptop standards.
I would suggest working with an optometrist on your eye strain issues.
Not that I care that much if you buy an expensive gaming laptop. It just hurts a little to watch it from a distance, especially since I think you'll add on the ripoff extended warranty.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The AMD processor it had though is said to be clearly outperformed by the Core2 duo series however.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: The AMD processor it had though is said to be clearly outperformed by the Core2 duo series however.
Damnit, seems we cant simply exchange it for money and buy a laptop elsewhere, so I'm stuck with futureshop it seems.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Blayne, what sort of compile times have you experienced? What sort of thing are you coding in which time spent compiling is actually a major problem for you?
quote:The AMD processor it had though is said to be clearly outperformed by the Core2 duo series however.
Blayne, I want to say something that I really, really want you to pay attention to: it is possible for something to be good enough without being perfect. The AMD processor in that machine is going to be just fine for what you need. In fact, unless you're going to make that laptop your main gaming machine -- which, again, I do not recommend for all kinds of reasons, not least because if you do we're going to wind up having this exact same conversation in just two years -- it will be overkill.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Blayne, what sort of compile times have you experienced? What sort of thing are you coding in which time spent compiling is actually a major problem for you?
quote:The AMD processor it had though is said to be clearly outperformed by the Core2 duo series however.
Blayne, I want to say something that I really, really want you to pay attention to: it is possible for something to be good enough without being perfect. The AMD processor in that machine is going to be just fine for what you need. In fact, unless you're going to make that laptop your main gaming machine -- which, again, I do not recommend for all kinds of reasons, not least because if you do we're going to wind up having this exact same conversation in just two years -- it will be overkill.
Pretty damn long with my larger projects.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
How long? I mean, speaking personally, the largest application I have ever written compiles in under half an hour, and it took me nearly six months to write. I understand that this may not apply universally, but even the largest Linux modules compile in under two hours. You could compile an entire functional distro in four. How often are you compiling, that this is a problem?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
obviously the reasons that work on my parents won't work with you Suffice it to say the laptop im looking at thats 1500$ in futureshop (and funnily enough 2200 in bestbuy) is meant to be "more then good enough" as to secure that it isn't obsolete so to speak 6 months to 2 years from now but to my estimation should be perfectly decent for all purposes even as far as 6 years from now and is meant to last me through all of University.
I think the most valid reasons are:
-eye strain, I require a larger screen then most normal people, I had a hard time with my 14.1" laptop from before.
-portable gaming, while you reccomend a desktop for gaming and I know this to be 100% accurate that a desktop is always the better choice, however considering I will be on my own downtown in the city without vehicular transportation for at least a year moving my desktop to my friends house would be inpractical and risky.
-the computer should remain decent for all purposes for much longer then the current budget laptop.
-specific to the Core2 Quad is that I really want to see what I can do to poke around programming stuff to use the 4 cores.
but in any case BestBuy has a 18" laptop with a HD4650 with a slightely faster clocked duo core2.
And is I think 200-300$ cheaper but Futureshop doesn't seem to have, I'll see if I can get fs to get it for me.
But generally because upgrading a laptop is non trivial compared to a desktop its always been my estimation that its always better if your willing to spend a little bit more on a laptop for something that will hold its own longer then something you might regret buying a little later.
Note that this is 900$ roughly of money I spent my summer working for, the other 1150$ is from the government, I'm getting bursuries to pay for my university and living costs.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
18 inch screen = enormous laptop. Don't forget to consider whether you really want that much weight and whether it'll make it hard to use in some places (public transport, small desks, cafeteria tables, etc.).
And top of the line is only slightly more future proof than middle range products. It's a luxury, not what I would call "better if you're willing to spend the money." No matter what, you'll have something that is not as good as what you could get for the same money a year later.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:to my estimation should be perfectly decent for all purposes even as far as 6 years from now
Blayne, you forget that I've known you for almost eight years now. I know perfectly well that you will begin to chafe at the fact that even the best laptop available today will not play the games made four years in the future at the highest possible detail settings, and that this will actually start to chafe about two years from now.
quote:moving my desktop to my friends house would be inpractical and risky.
This is actually why I built a micro-ATX gaming/HTPC machine in a small form factor. It's still heavy, but it fits in a backpack. Of course, if you travel with it, you still need to bring a monitor, so it's still less portable than a laptop. That said, is it really worth a thousand dollars to you to be able to cart a gaming machine to LAN parties?
quote:Note that this is 900$ roughly of money I spent my summer working for, the other 1150$ is from the government, I'm getting bursuries to pay for my university and living costs.
Believe me, you will want that $900. I'm serious. I know this sounds remarkably boring and un-fun, but I remember being in college, and I remember what a pain it was when I realized too late that I'd been spending more than I could afford. That $900 you earned will, if you save it, help you do things like get transportation (or a better apartment) down the line. And wean you off bursaries, too.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:to my estimation should be perfectly decent for all purposes even as far as 6 years from now
Blayne, you forget that I've known you for almost eight years now. I know perfectly well that you will begin to chafe at the fact that even the best laptop available today will not play the games made four years in the future at the highest possible detail settings, and that this will actually start to chafe about two years from now.
Actually, for the first time in a long time, I'm thinking this may actually not be the case. (Regarding the escalation in resource/processor needs for games, that is; I'm not anticipating a change in Blayne's ability to chafe. ) The present trend in consoles seems to be angling towards lengthening the time before a new generation of hardware is issued. A reasonably current quad-core system can play most of the console ports at least as well as the consoles themselves, so long as the port isn't a work of real incompetence. And much as I hate to say it, a large number- probably the majority- of A-list games coming out for the PC are either cross-platform, or came out for the console first.
On the other end, the biggest expansion in PC games has been the Pop Cap crowd, the "casual" games, and they've never been the most hardware demanding titles. And then there's Valve, whose own engine is one of the most low-end friendly of the 3D engines out there, and whose Steam distribution system is putting a lot of games of yesteryear (read: lower requirements) into the hands of modern gamers.
Not to mention the boom in netbooks, those lower-power notebooks that are allegedly mostly for e-mail, word processing, and web-surfing, but whose consumer base is surely going to be catching some eyes as well.
I could be wrong, of course, but this really is the first time in a while I've had some confidence my own computer was still going to be reasonably up-to-date at the two-to-four year mark.
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Suffice it to say the laptop im looking at thats 1500$ in futureshop (and funnily enough 2200 in bestbuy) is meant to be "more then good enough" as to secure that it isn't obsolete so to speak 6 months to 2 years from now but to my estimation should be perfectly decent for all purposes even as far as 6 years from now and is meant to last me through all of University.