I watched it tonight, and I'm not sure what I think. I loved the OCD guidance counselor, and the gal playing the cheer coach is always great. The super obnoxious cheerleaders, moral superiority all around, and hints of marital infidelity weren't really draws for me.
And I was never quite sure I believed the actors were singing. I don't know, that part just sort of looked fake. For a show about people singing, that seems like a rather serious disadvantage.
I'll probably watch a few more episodes. Anyone else giving it a chance?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That show was not so bad, but, what is up with that dude's wife? I don't like her! I bet if I was married and I had a husband I wouldn't be like her. I'd be nice.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I watched it tonight. I also saw the pilot a few months back.
I think the pacing was better in tonight's episode than the pilot. However, tonight's episode seemed alittle too fast. I felt like I was coming in at the middle of a season.
From what I remember of the pilot, we got to see each kid audition and they explained why the head jock in the school would join such an unpopular club. You also got more backstory regarding the Glee Club teacher, his high school years, and the situation with his wife. The pilot also gave the impression that while each kid was talented, they were very different and part of the drama would be seeing how their interact and bring the group together musically. But in tonight's episode, they were kicking butt as a group from the get-go.
The singing did seem REALLY over the top. I want to believe its their voices but it sounded overproduced. I don't remember it being that obnoxious in the pilot. I was also sad that I didn't get to see the "Rehab" number again.
Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
I was just really annoyed that the main girl is pretending to be a sphmore in highschool, but she obviousley looks at least 25. It's so ridiculous, can't they at least find a 19 year old to play 4 years younger instead of someone to play 8?
i've only seen the pilot, but as far as girly shows that I would only watch with some of my friends that are girls (I'm a guy) I rate it much much much better than a lot of the garbage out there.
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
Meh. The singing was so canned that it wasn't enjoyable. The main girl, like LargeTuna says, is so old for the part that it's hard to accept. The infidelity, the sexy number instead of the disco number . . . all of these things turned me off and so I turned it off at about 40 after the hour.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Originally posted by LargeTuna: I was just really annoyed that the main girl is pretending to be a sphmore in highschool, but she obviousley looks at least 25. It's so ridiculous, can't they at least find a 19 year old to play 4 years younger instead of someone to play 8?
She's 23 years old and a year younger than myself. I wait tables in a family restaurant and my customers are always asking if I attend one of the local high schools.
I agree that she doesn't look like most real-life high schoolers, but I don't think she looks any older than most actors/actresses who play teenage characters. I think she just has a different look about her (she's not a typical Hollywood version of pretty.)
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
Why oh why don't they just hire teenagers to play teenagers? I mean, it worked for the Harry Potter movies, and IMO it's a lot better than having 23 year olds pretend they're 15. It's one of the reasons I dislike most high school movies/shows... they always have "high school students" who are older than I am.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
There are rules about minors working as actors. It's more economical to use actual adults. And even the shift in talent between 18 and 20 year olds can be pretty big.
It's a show. You should really just relax.
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
I thought the pilot had a lot of potential, but that the plot themes they were working with would naturally die out pretty quickly, so it was all a matter of what they did next. Then this episode.
Based on this, the rest of the season could be about how you should ditch your bossy wife/cheerleader girlfriend and go sleep with the quirky girl, or they could actually give the cheerleaders back stories like all the other major characters. I think they could make a great series if they allow all the groups to be real people (in a loose sense, obviously the entire show takes place in a state of heightened reality) or they could make something miserable and terrible.
I'll give it a few more episodes, but I'm not as interested as I was after the pilot.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: Why oh why don't they just hire teenagers to play teenagers? I mean, it worked for the Harry Potter movies, and IMO it's a lot better than having 23 year olds pretend they're 15. It's one of the reasons I dislike most high school movies/shows... they always have "high school students" who are older than I am.
The Harry Potter age-situation was only true for the first few movies. And I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would argue that the young cast hasn't improved with age and experience. Tom Felton gave a great performance as Draco Malfoy in the last film and while the character was only 16 years old, Tom will be turning 22 in a week or two. Rupert Grint, Daniel Radcliffe, and alot of the students are also into their 20s now.
And aside from acting talent, vocal ability grows exponentially every year with singers. I did choir for eight years and it was always exciting to hear everyone's voices grow after a summer out of school. My vocal coach was always giving me the same speech "let's try that higher note in another six months" or having me listen to my old recordings to just hear how my voice had matured over a year or two. Teens are still growing and that affects both the vocal chords and stamina.
Lea is an incredible talent as Rachel and she also comes with a nice little Broadway following which can't hurt.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: Why oh why don't they just hire teenagers to play teenagers? I mean, it worked for the Harry Potter movies, and IMO it's a lot better than having 23 year olds pretend they're 15. It's one of the reasons I dislike most high school movies/shows... they always have "high school students" who are older than I am.
"Degrassi", a well known teen drama franchise here in Canada (I'm not sure how many Americans are familiar with it) is actually really good about this. The actors are actually the same ages as their characters. Its stories also tend to be more realistic than say 90210 or Dawson's Creek. We actually used to watch it in school to learn about the dangers of drugs, unprotected sex, abusive relationships, etc.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I've seen Degrassi. It's on TeenNick here in the states and sometimes on Mtv. Not exactly a shining example of teen acting and singing talent.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
The acting was probably better in the old series from the 80s rather than the currently airing "Next Generation". At least from what I remember. As for singing talent, it's not a musical.
About the whole age thing in teen dramas though, I find amusement in the fact that I'm a 25 year old high school teacher, and often times the high school students on tv are played by actors who are older than me.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I live in Lima, Ohio. It's big news around here, but I haven't watched yet. I have it on my DVR just havent gotten around to it yet.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Okay. Just finished the 5th episode and WOW. They have a new "Don't stop believing."
I actually think that it is enough to make me watch the 20 min of horrible plot to enjoy the other 20 min of awesome music.
I just wish Finn and Rachel would stop circling each other...
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
I love that Kristin Chenoweth guest starred. She is one of the best Broadway singers of our time. If she was in town in anything, ever, even one of my least favorite musicals, I would see it just to see her live.
I'm also enjoying this show. I think it's mainly cute, sometimes annoying, and basically just good fun. There are some serious issues that get dealt with, but like any musical, it's pretty lighthearted all the way through.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
My fiancee and I watched the first episode of this season and it fell flat for us. We gave the second episode a shot, and we pretty quickly decided to take it off our DVR list.
It's just not very good - though it's inexplicably getting rave reviews. I don't know, I guess different strokes for different folks. We're done with it, though.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think it's worth it just for the music. I think Rachel is adorable, though I was annoyed with her during her little two episode diva mini-arc where it was all about her. I thought the stuff with Kurt in "Preggers" was very good TV. I think usually something like that might not come out for a couple seasons in other TV shows, but I guess it was a little harder to avoid in this one. Still it was done well.
I think the acting is so-so a lot of the time. The only thing I don't really believe is when they sing as an ensemble, first off it sounds over the top good, and second, it sounds like there are way more than just four or five of them. They have the same power as the kids who did the "rehab" number and there were three times as many. Maybe that's just my lack of experience with glee clubs, but the numbers don't seem to add up. I really hope it is them though.
I'm fine with the flaws. If you don't take is seriously at all, and just enjoy it for the fun and the music, it's very enjoyable. I think the show, even with all its flaws, is also doing a lot of important things image wise. The cast is a grab bag of genders, sizes, races, sexual orientation, and even disabilities. I really don't know how they could have gotten more diverse than that. It's showing people of varying types, some of whom get picked on a lot (the flamboyant gay kid, the fat kid, the kid with the stutter, the overachieving kid with no friends, the kid in a wheel chair), but all of whom are either comfortable with themselves, or who gain confidence through something bigger than themselves. For the positive message alone I think the show is worth keeping on the air. The teen drama stuff is probably just to keep that particular age bracket interested.
I generally don't watch new shows in their first season. I hate getting involved in a show and then having the rug yanked out from under me before the first thirteen episodes are even up. But I'm not at all sorry that I got into this one. A lot of the behind the scenes making-of stuff is really cool too. For example, the girl who plays Mercedes was singing "Bust Your Windows" on the set when they were filming the pilot and the creator of the show said "there's a song about busting some guy's windows?! How don't I already have that!" And then a couple episodes later told her that she'd be doing it. I also like how prominent artists are allowing their songs to be used either cheaply or for free. I think if for no other reason, this show will keep going because of the crap ton of money they'll make off mp3 sales.
I also like that last week they sort of transitioned away from only doing musical numbers within the glee format. Originally they said they weren't going to do songs outside of the actual glee club, so it wouldn't be like HSM or other musicals that use the song as dialogue to actually move the plot. They sort of found a happy medium by using songs outside of glee as a soliloquy or internal monologue, a la "Bust Your Windows" or when Rachel sang that Rihanna song about Finn.
Anywho, me likey, flaws and all.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I am quickly falling in love with Glee. The last episode had some really amazing songs in it and as usual it had great one lines. This week Kurt talking about bambi while hungover and lat week Sue talking about Sandy's house both had me in tears.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
For me it was Puck's line about Rachel wanting to make him set himself on fire. When did the dialog start getting good?
And apparently they heard a buddy of mine complain that all the women were conniving while the men were good-hearted doofuses. Still not sure why everyone on the show but Mr Shue has to go straight for the con when they want something, but it was nice to see them level the field a little.
And I agree that Kristin was fantastic. Loved every moment she was on screen. Plus I had very little of either baby drama to annoy me. Only downside was there was virtually no Sue. Maybe next week.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I never bought the only the women are bad argument. The glee teacher is super passive agressive and doing things for all the wrong reasons. The football coach is a loser, Puck is a whore and a bully, Finn is....slow, Sandy likes teenage boys and the Principle doesn't give a damn he just wants to be left alone. Really Emma is the only adult in the show who honestly seems to care about the kids.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think Will obviously cares about the kids, he often fails in the execution, but not with his intention.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
Will thinks he cares but really it often seems to be all about his glory.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: Still not sure why everyone on the show but Mr Shue has to go straight for the con when they want something, but it was nice to see them level the field a little.
Everyone but Mr. Shue? Remember why Finn joined the glee club in the first place?
I wish they bothered to maintain something resembling consistency from week to week, both in terms of the characters and the plot, but I accept that it's just Not That Sort Of Show. It's still my one and only must-see series this season.
(At least until American Idol returns, but I fear that one officially jumped the shark when they lost Paula. And then blew their shot at redemption when they chose Ellen as a replacement. But I would love to be wrong... and, anyway, that probably belongs in a different thread.)
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I didn't see the pilot, so I missed that. In that case, why does everyone on the show have to go straight for the con when they want something? Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
Okay the guys hopped up on cold meds was absolutely hilarious. That whole episode was gold. I also think that the guys completely won that contest.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I agree. Very fun episode and the guy' mash-up was loads better. Though the girls' dancing so perky, I couldn't stop laughing.
I am REALLY excited for next week.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: I agree. Very fun episode and the guy' mash-up was loads better. Though the girls' dancing so perky, I couldn't stop laughing.
I am REALLY excited for next week.
Yeah that should be one heck of a showdown
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I wasn't the biggest fan. I can wait for this stupid baby plot to resolve itself. Actually I'm not a fan of any of the adult drama. I like the kids in Glee club way more.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I'm worried that this episode will promote abuse of cold medicine. But darn good =)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, frankly that made me worry a bit too.
I really think they should have ended the episode with some of the actual negative side effects of taking pseudphedrine. Generally it's considered safe, but a number of problems crop up with repeated use. It's essentially speed.
Other than that, loved the mashups.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
Well, Sudafed sales have been pretty tightly regulated for years now, if that helps any...
Anyway, agreed on the guys' mashup being the better of the two. Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: Well, Sudafed sales have been pretty tightly regulated for years now, if that helps any...
Anyway, agreed on the guys' mashup being the better of the two.
Around here you have to show ID and are only allowed to buy 2 packs at once. None of the "36 packs" thing we saw.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
So wait a minute here. The principal is the one who puts all this pressure on Shue in the first place, makes him pay for everything out of pocket and threatens to pull the plug if they don't make sectionals. And SHUE is the one who gets penalized for having a competitive nature?? And worse, he's gotta deal with Sue as a co-coach?
I think the show just completely lost me there. I've been on the edge because of the extreme caricatures that most of the staff plus Shue's wife embody. The only parts of this show that have been fun for me the last couple weeks have been the musical numbers.
And yes, the whole Sudafed plotline was just so wrong. But then again, so is the rest of the show.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I actually didn't mind the plot in this one. That's the first that's happened.
I'm not even sure what they did that was different, but I like this one better than most. It was less flashy and funnier.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I have to dull my emotional sensitivity every time I see that evil wife of Will's. Otherwise I'd be clutching my sides, reeling in pain over how awful she is being by hiding her fake pregnancy.
But as I previously said, I like the kids' storyline, not so much with the adults. I think the lost song was beautiful. The choreography told a really good emotional story. I was surprised because I don't really expect such artsyness from Glee.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm kind of the opposite - I much prefer the adults in the show to the kids. It might just be an almost irrational love of Jane Lynch chewing up the scenery, though...
(I DVR the show and fast-forward through nearly all the singing. I feel like somehow I'm missing the "soul" of the show, but I enjoy it way more.)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The baby drama makes me want to tear my hair out.
The song at the end almost made me a little misty. I love that they were singing to Quinn, and her reaction was great. Hooray for solidarity.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Another vote for ending the fake pregnancy silliness. That could never work. Quinn can't keep that secret.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Too many loose ends that won't stay untied. Puck will eventually spill the beans that he's the dad. His character is demanding the sort of exploration and depth that most of the others have gotten. If not, Shue will figure out that the baby isn't his one way or another, if for no other reason than I question whether or not the baby will come out looking brunette and white. If he looks more like his daddy, I think everyone would have a bit of a "wtf?" moment and realize that something isn't right.
Frankly though, I think Quinn is going to have a miscarriage. If she doesn't, I think there has to be a baby around all the time one way or another, and I don't think they'll put that on the show.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Yea. That was kind of a disappointment for me in this episode. Puck was actually there for so much of the drama and they didn't even show any of his reactions!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The only time they really panned to him was during the end song where he was joining the others in supporting Quinn (which was just an awesome scene by the way, I loved the emotion they showed, it was perfect).
Other than that, I think if they're going to include him in the baby mama drama (can't believe I just said that), then they need to actually include him! I thought he was a jerk at the start of the show, then he became...I don't know, some weird oddity. He obviously cares about Finn, but he slept with Quinn when he doesn't even enjoy high school girls in that way, which in hindsight actually looks somewhat out of character. He showed a lot of moral character afterward by demanding to play a role in the baby's life though.
What's weird is that they keep giving us all these evidence that the characters are really good people, and then they have them do something horrible. Quinn lies to Finn so she can escape Lima with him, Finn lies to Rachel to get her to join the club for his own selfish purposes, Puck shows obvious signs of caring about Finn, even backed him up during the Beyonce football dance number, but slept with his girlfriend in the very beginning. Rachel was a total jerk during the whole "it's all about me" phase when she quit the club before coming back.
Is it that they can't decide who the characters are, or refuse to let us unconditionally like them? I understand a show has to have conflict and drama to some degree, it's not like Virginia Woolf is writing the script, but they need to make it a little more sensible and fluid.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Sue is great.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Finally started watching. I think the show is silly but appreciate it for what it is. I do wish the songs were a little less overproduced. I assume they're setting it up to translate directly to a soundtrack tie-in. I absolutely loved the boys' Mashup (I might purchase said soundtrack just for that).
All the characters are very flawed, and I think that's fine. Plenty of people can be basically good at heart but still act mean or foolish a lot of the time.
Posted by Coccinelle (Member # 5832) on :
I enjoy the songs. I really really want Finn, Quinn, Shu, his terrible wife, the doctor, heck- the writers to take a health class and find out when baby gender can be determined via ultrasound.
It irritates me to no end that they all think they know what they're having before 10 weeks. Has not one of those people even picked up What to Expect??
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Nice to see them back this week. I loved the wheelchair number, and it was nice to see someone other than the love triangles get a little screen time. And Sue turned out to be a little more complicated than I thought they'd go for. I really liked that.
I did want to beat Finn over the head with something heavy, though. He's going to give up all his free time busting his behind at a job that I guarantee is still not paying the doctor bills so his girlfriend can put off telling her parents a few more weeks? Seriously? She can't hide it forever; she might as well get it over with and put the bills on the insurance.
I know, they're teenagers, they're supposed to do stupid things. I guess most shows I've watched had more harmless teenagers who got into silly situations. I'm not used to watching teenagers be teenagers when they ought to be grown ups.
I should probably appreciate that more. Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Yeah. I actually really liked that episode. I thought defying gravity was stunning and the wheelchair number was great. They could have left out Artie's song in the beginning, but, oh well.
I thought this episode was the first deep episode. I thought that Kurt's relationship was [b]real[/i] and that they had a lot to deal with as opposed to his dad being accepting all too quickly. It made me really sad that Kurt gave up the solo for his dad, but I also thought it was touching.
Speaking of - that whole thing was Sue was amazing. First, I love that Glee cast those children. I KNOW they made them sooo happy to be on tv! And they did it in a way where they didn't make fun of them or anything. I think it was beautiful.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I love Kurt's relationship with his dad. Its nice to see something besides the usual "coming out" story. I think the writers and the actors are dealing with the situation in a way that is positive and loving but also realistic regarding the adjustment Kurt's dad is going to have to make.
The duet version of "Defying Gravity" on the Glee soundtrack is AMAZING. Check it out.
I liked Artie's solo. Glad to see that character developed more. I love the minor cast so much more than the love-triangle, baby-daddy drama.
And yay for Sue! That was really unexpected and now I don't totally hate the character. She was starting to go past funny and into annoyingly over the top.
Random observations: Puck looked insanely silly in the yellow shirt and suspenders get up. And if they're struggling to pay for the special bus for Artie, where did the fancy custom stage piece in the "River" number come from??
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I really, really enjoyed the part about Kurt and his dad, and the part with Sue. That nuanced character development is why I fell in love with the show in episode one, and the lack of it, why I haven't enjoyed the season to date.
Big step forward for this week.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Loved the stuff with Kurt and his dad. What's going on there is probably the best exploration of a father/gay son relationship I've ever seen on TV. It's cool stuff. I think what makes it great is that the dad doesn't seem to follow any of the stereotypes. He's not REALLY okay with it, it's not how he was brought up, but he wants to be a good dad, so he supports his son anyway, and you can tell he's struggling with it. He's not a jerk who rejects his son, and he's not totally okay with it, he's somewhere in the middle. Felt very realistic not to lump the dad in with the jerks or the possibly unrealistic totally acceptance.
Shanna -
Well, they only needed half of what they earned for the special bus.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
No Teri or Tanaka! No Emma
I didn't like the stutter girl's thing (sorry I forget her name).
Sue's sister was a nice touch.
Quinn is not getting better, she needs to stop being so annoying.
Overall- good episode, great company to watch it with.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Loved the stuff with Kurt and his dad.
Oh my goodness yes. I love how hard dad tries. And I adore that he puts everything in football terms to try to get the singing. He's just so sweet.
Seeing that actor on Yes Dear, I never would have guessed he'd be this good. He's wonderful!
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: No Teri or Tanaka! No Emma
This made me enjoy the episode even more. I hate the Teri plot line and the Emma/Schuester/Tanaka triangle is getting a bit annoying.
I also really like how they are developing Kurt and his dad's relationship.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I like Emma, I don't like Teri or Tanaka. I don't want a love triangle with her, but I like her.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Tonight's was pretty fun, but mostly it got me curious. Since they're now refusing to support their minor daughter, could Finn's mom sue the Fabres for child support?
I mean, she won't. They've made enough of a deal about how poor and mousy she is. But I'd love to see a showdown where she threatens to if they don't keep Quinn on their insurance and send her a check monthly.
If they weren't so busy making sure the kids know teen pregnancy is bad, they could have fun finding creative solutions to the problem. None of them are easy, but they do still have options.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
Kids get kicked out of their homes all the time. I am not personally aware of any successful lawsuits over the issue. Someone must have tried at some point.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
What do you think of Finn's mom and Kurt's dad? Perfect!
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
They were exactly as I pictured them. Quinn's parents were just as horrible as you would expect and I just loved Finns' mom this episode and Finn going through his dads stuff. Kurt's dad is always awesome.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Oh sorry my wording was bad. Them dating, I think they should fall in love.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I think that would be a wee bit awkward what with Kurt being in love with Finn and Finn being, you know, straight.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Right, that's why I think they'll do it. Probably not until the second season.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
YAAAAAAY. Will knows his wife isn't prego. FINALLY.
Good episode. Good for Will, Good for Quinn.
A bit boring for Finn and the redundancy of the Glee clubs ridiculously unrealistic and exaggerated struggle with being in Glee and being losers. Seriously, if those kids were in any glee club in any HS, they'd be the coolest kids in the school.
Though, musically, nothing really stood out for me this week. Hope that Will finding out about his wife is the domino that will undo all the annoying baby drama.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You can tell he really, really wanted to hit her. I don't think he could be blamed if he had.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
It definitely felt like it was about to turn violent. That said, I would definitely blame him if he hit her. Domestic violence isn't okay no matter how angry you are.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I so thought he was going to hit her. that was a POWERFUL scene.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I thought the episode was very weak. The jump thing was cool but got too long. I'm glad Shue found out Terri isn't pregnant but I don't really like the way he reacted.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:It definitely felt like it was about to turn violent. That said, I would definitely blame him if he hit her. Violence isn't okay no matter how angry you are.
Fixed that for you. (Well, actually I don't necessarily agree with the changed statement, but at the level of violence we're talking about it doesn't make much sense to me to restrict it's restriction to only family units).
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: YAAAAAAY. Will knows his wife isn't prego. FINALLY.
...
Though, musically, nothing really stood out for me this week.
I completely agree with both points here. Will's reaction was pretty awesome, in that he nailed the reaction I wanted him to have. Otherwise, the episode was pretty much average.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I think the part that tripped me up a little was that in the office with Sue and Figgins, Shue said he was thinking about leaving his wife. But when he talked to the guidance councilor and she mentioned divorce, he got all defensive. I'm curious to see what he decides, and I think I'm glad they're not planning to have him leave his marriage out of hand.
Granted his wife is a terrible person and he probably shouldn't have married her in the first place, but at least they seem to be treating the subject with some consideration.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:It definitely felt like it was about to turn violent. That said, I would definitely blame him if he hit her. Violence isn't okay no matter how angry you are.
Fixed that for you.
No you didn't. I meant what I said and I said what I meant. I don't agree with the changed statement given how broad it is.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
As I said, I don't really agree with it either. (unfortunately none of the technically correct ways I could have reworded your statement would have had the right quality of snark). But I don't think slapping someone because they did something that made you mad is any better or worse when the person in question is your wife.
[ December 05, 2009, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Violence is a general term, and doesn't have to mean physical violence directed at a person. If someone angers you and you throw something across the room and not in their direction, I would call that a violent act. I don't think it's an inherently wrong expression of that anger.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I've already indicated that my original statement was chosen specifically for snark value, and even if it wasn't I think it was pretty clear that I was merely removing the "domestic" modifier as opposed to opening it up to all kinds of metaphorical interpretations of the word 'violence.'
And you haven't really addressed my actual point - is there any reason to focus on violence between members of a family versus violence between any two random people who are having a dispute?
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
If you were going for snark value, you failed. There was no indication in your original alteration of my opinion that you were trying to be humorous or facetious. Given that it was my opinion, my words, and my point of view that I was expressing, I think my definition of violence is the one that matters. I'm not going to discuss this any further, because I don't see the need to defend myself against your analysis of my opinion.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I realize internet sarcasm and humor is easy to fail at, and I guess I did. I was assuming "Fixed that for you" is enough to indicate that there is some level of joking (whether mean spirited or not) going on. More importantly, I assumed my subsequent disclaimer was enough to convey that I wasn't trying to attack you or your opinion and that my tone was supposed to be sarcastic but not offensive. My friends and I mock each other playfully for saying things we didn't quite mean, which is what I thought you did. And in retrospect on the internet I need to be way more careful than that, because it's not obvious at all.
In my first post I simply assumed that you were making an off the cuff statement and only specified domesticate violence because that was what the issue at hand was about, and that if pressed you'd go "Oh, well yeah interpersonal violence is bad in general, but this was a domestic dispute, so ." Your response was merely criticize my own vagueness of statement, and I wasn't sure at first whether you were being snarky back or taking me way to seriously or what.
I am genuinely interested in knowing if you actually do see a difference between domestic and "normal interpersonal" violence. I haven't been attacking your opinion so far, merely your use of the english language, because I don't know what your opinion actually is.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
My opinion is that domestic violence isn't okay. I haven't made any statements on interpersonal violence in general, nor do I care to, because I consider that a different and much more complicated issue and not even vaguely relevant to this thread as it has gone so far. Your disclaimer read to me as though you were trying to make my opinion into TRUTH, but that you thought there were shortcomings to that statement that needed further clarifications.
quote:In my first post I simply assumed that you were making an off the cuff statement...
Why? What would make you assume that I hadn't thought about what I was writing and the implications of the statement?
quote:Your response was merely criticize my own vagueness of statement
I wasn't criticizing your vagueness, I was criticizing your attempt to "correct" my opinion with something that, in fact, is not my opinion. It's like if I was talking to someone about thyroid cancer and I said, "Thyroid cancer is a really bad diagnosis." If you walked up and said, "I think what you really mean to say is that any cancer is a really bad diagnosis," I wouldn't react very well. The risks of cancer vary greatly from one type to the next, and a discussion on that is not inherently relevant to the conversation about a thyroid cancer diagnosis.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I didn't think your initial statement was wrong, just overly specific. (But yeah, I guess the cancer analogy is fairly apt.) It may be that I also disagree with your beliefs but I didn't know that at the time. To be honest, this ISN'T something I've dedicated a whole lot of thought to, and I apologize for projecting that attitude at you.
In general I don't take Glee very seriously, and up until now I had been treating this thread the way I would a frivolous conversation with random friends, (and if my friends and I were having a frivolous conversation and somehow Thyroid Cancer came up, I might have made a similar comment depending on the context, not really expecting anyone to take it seriously). Except that suddenly we're talking about domestic violence and it took me a while to make the transition to "okay now we're talking about an actual serious problem as oppose to a silly show that I usually consider a guilty pleasure." And now that I have made that adjustment, I don't think my statement is particularly worth defending.
[ December 06, 2009, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:"Thyroid cancer is a really bad diagnosis."
Incidentally, my dad just got diagnosed with thyroid cancer. They said it is the "best cancer". I've kinda been avoiding it for denial/fear-of-truth reasons, but it stuck out to me here. Is it best bad or bad bad?
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Vonk, my mother was diagnosed with thyroid cancer when I was young. I actually didn't even know the truth of what happened until maybe a year or two ago when my dad told me. I remember her being in the hospital off and on and in bed alot, but she made a complete recovery. She'll be on thyroid medicine for the rest of her life and as a result struggles with her weight, but otherwise she's healthy and we expect her to be with us for a very long time.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Thanks, that reassuring.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I guess it depends. My grandmother died of it, and my understanding was that it was pretty much a death sentence. There may be multiple types?
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Here's something I just found on the internet, so take it with a grain of salt:
quote:There are several types of thyroid cancer:
* Anaplastic carcinoma (also called giant and spindle cell cancer) is the most dangerous form of thyroid cancer. It is rare, and does not respond to radioiodine therapy. Anaplastic carcinoma spreads quickly and invades nearby structures such as the windpipe (trachea), causing breathing difficulties. * Follicular carcinoma accounts for about 30% of all cases and is more likely to come back and spread. * Medullary carcinoma is a cancer of non-thyroid cells that are normally present in the thyroid gland. This form of the thyroid cancer tends to occur in families. It requires different treatment than other types of thyroid cancer. * Papillary carcinoma is the most common type, and usually affects women of childbearing age. It spreads slowly and is the least dangerous type of thyroid cancer.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
My uncle had a type that even the doctors thought was weird. They originally thought he had a cyst, opened him up and saw that it was cancer that had spread already, closed him back up, and gave him six months to live.
I guess at some point he actually had it out, because after chemo and all the radiation he's ever allowed to have, he's still trucking. I suppose he would have been diagnosed something like 15 or 20 years ago now.
His health isn't great these days. After the last family get-together, he went home and found out he had walking pneumonia. And the shot he needs each month since he has no thyroid is quite expensive. He ended up losing his old job and having to work for the city, but that was probably for the best. They only work 40 hours a week, and as a CPA, he likes to call it his part time gig.
So here's hoping your dad's a trooper, whatever the diagnosis.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wow.
Insanely awesome episode.
It had a little bit of everything, with some amazing emotional performances, I think some realistic reactions for once (I'm sick of crap always working out in the end; that isn't real life), it was absolutely choke yourself to death hilarious, the songs were great, everything we were waiting to see happen happened, and the music was really good!
Top notch! Can't wait for the second half to see what they have cooked up next!
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I love Mr. Shuester fighting back tears as Rachel performed. My favorite moment of the season so far and in one of my favorite episodes!
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Now I'm mad. We have to wait for APRIL for the Joss Whedon episode???
I'm glad they got most of the baby-drama mess out in the open (not yet done, though, since Quinn apparently still thinks Terri and Will are going to take the baby). I'm ecstatic that Sue finally got busted. I don't know how I feel about the Emma/Will mess, though.
And the Rolling Stones was just too predictable. I know that Will was trying to send a clear message to Finn, but come on.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I was fine with Rolling Stones. I liked that most of the plot threads got resolved by the half-season ending. I appreciate it when the writers provide some structure show's arcs.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Goody -
From the sound of things, I think Quinn is planning on keeping and raising the baby by herself. She seems to keep going back and forth on that though, hard to say.
Loved the episode. I don't mind the break so much. I figure with all that singing to learn, they deserve it. I just hope the show's still awesome when they come back.
Now I'm going to listen to Maybe This Time again. Dear Lord, Kristin Chenoworth is amazing!
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
What MADE this episode for me was the Kelly Clarkson number at the end, specifically because they incorporated all their dances into it. It was so nostalgic, i loved it.
They had "don't even know his last name cowboy" style, the halo and it's my life mashup dances, the song Quinn and the cheerleaders tried out to, the hairiography, it was amazing.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I love this show. Yeah it can be a little snarky at times, but I love the characters and the music.
I really enjoy the writing. Some of my favorite scenes were whe Kurt told his father he was homosexual and played football, when Finn learns Quinn is pregnant and has the flashback of them in the hot tub, and when Sue went to visit her sister.
This really is a show that can have you laughing one minute and tearing up the next. The look of pain on Mr. Schuster's face when he confronted his wife made me tear up.
My favorite quote from the last episode?
Sue: "Just add revenge to the long list of things you are not good at, like being married, teaching a glee club, and finding a hair style that doesn't make you look like a lesbian."
I can't wait until April. I want more Sue!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Mark Salling wrote a tribute to his friends on Glee. link Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Wow. I just came out of a law school final from Criminal Law. Our essay, 75 percent of our exam (2hrs and 15 min of it) was on Glee!!!
Generally, law school exams are issue spotting - some crazy fact pattern and you need to identify the legal issues and explain the chances every party has.
Apparently our professor is a Glee fan, because the story was that Will Schuester needed money to fund his Glee club, so he directs Rachel and Finn (separately) to steal TVs and computers from the A/V room. (Conspiracy, aiding and abetting, analysis of Rachel and Finn being held responsible for one another's conspiracy without foreknowledge, etc.)
Rachel needs a cart to carry the items, so she pays a homeless person 100 bucks for his cart, after revealing her intentions to him (possible conspiracy and aiding and abetting).
Finn is on a date with Quinn and takes her with him to the school, telling him her plan. She comes with him to the room, but she never verbally agrees to the plan. Before they enter, he sends her back to the car so that one of them stays out of jail to raise their baby (conspiracy, possible relenting).
Quinn, upset at Sue for kicking her out of the cheerios goes to her office to vandalize it (attempt), she finds here there, and, afraid of getting caught, knocks her unconscious with the hope of making her forget that she saw Quinn. Sue dies later of her wounds. (Possible Murder, Felony Murder, Reckless Murder, Involuntary Manslaughter, Reckless Manslaughter, and Negligent Homicide)(If found for conspiracy - does the liability for the murder carry over to Finn? Rachel? Schue?)
This isn't the whole story...but all I can say, is it made it a whole lot easier to know who everyone was and what their relationships were with everyone else, while my classmates were struggling not to confused Finn and Quinn. Also, it was comforting :-D
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Armoth,
Who said TV rots your brain? Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Most of what I know of classical music and opera, I learned from Bugs Bunny! Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Here's a fun game while we're waiting for Glee to come back:
What characters do you want to see sing what songs?
Given their voices, everyone is going to be able to sing certain songs better, and there are a few I'd love to see each of them sing. But the top of my list, as of this moment, is I'd love to see Puck sing "Last Kiss" by Pearl Jam. After hearing his version of "Sweet Caroline" I think he has the perfect voice for it.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
While I enjoy Glee, I actually skim through some of the singing because I'm not a musicals-person. Part of that is that I don't recognize the vast majority of songs they sing.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
You know that I want to see Puck sing anything that involves taking his shirt off, Shue too. I'll have to think about actual songs.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Anyone else watching?
I really like that Will and Emma are in a more realistic situation than it seemed like in December. Also, Sue singing Madonna was hilarious and awesome.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Here's this thread!
I liked the return episode, but I just hated the Madonna episode. Were they contractually obligated to do all that slobbering? It was like bad product placement - really weird. I suspect that they were, that it was Madonna's idea to have the entire cast engage in a WTH hagiography. The producers should have said no - it was a throwaway episode, like they spent the whole time on the holodeck.
However, it looks like the next two weeks are going to be fantastic and back to the Glee of before, and I am stoked.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I think the Madonna episode was amazing. The best musical numbers yet.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The musical numbers were okay, but the writing surrounding it was awful. It sounded like it was written by Madonna's publicist - I think much of it might have been. I like the musical numbers better when they adapt them, but several (Vogue, Express Yourself) were shot by shot and note by note remakes, which isn't as fun. More meddling my Madonna's people, I suspect.
But I'm pretending that episode never happened and enjoying the rest of the show very much.
Okay, I did love Emma's line about role models: "Lindsay Lohan looks like something out of 'Lord of the Rings.'"
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I actually loved the Madonna episode after I switched from thinking "wow, this is writing is pretty ridiculously terrible" to "wow, this is just ridiculously funny." Glee in general works a lot better when you don't take it too seriously.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Does anyone know how much time has passed between sectionals (the end of the first half of the season) and the restart?
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Quinn's lack of baby bump suggests almost none at all. As an aside, did they have the pregnant gal doing push ups in Express Yourself, or did I mix her up with Brittany?
I think my favorite moments were Tina's triumphant freak-out, complete with victorious arm raising, and Will actually winning a fight with Sue. Ok, and the Like a Virgin number. That was hysterical.
I'm also really impressed with how much better Finn sounds this half. I wouldn't think four months would be enough time to improve that much. I'd like to see them find more excuses to have him and Puck harmonize; the characters may not be friends anymore, but the actor's voices are nice together.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Part of that is them picking songs that fit Finn's voice a lot better. He did a lot of stuff that was outside his range in the first half.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: <snip>
Okay, I did love Emma's line about role models: "Lindsay Lohan looks like something out of 'Lord of the Rings.'"
My brother actually dropped his drink at that line. LOL
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Judging from the beginning of the first episode when Rachel said "We are at the top of this school now!" indicates to me that only a few days have passed since they won sectionals.
If regionals and nationals has to happen during that school year, I can't see much time passing between the last episode in December and the first in April.
I have really been let down the past couple of weeks with the lack of Puck and Quinn. Everyone else has had a subplot in the past couple of episodes except those two. We have no idea how Quinn is coping with the pregnancy and losing Finn, and likewise we have no idea what Puck has been doing. I mean, Santana has had more screen time than either of them.
The thing that worries me about this show is keeping it fresh and not losing its charm. If the Glee club wins Nationals, what then? What happens after the school year is out? Are any of the cast members seniors? Or do they plan on having a rotating cast each year?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well they are looking to add a couple new cast members next year. It doesn't look like any of them are seniors, probably sophmores or juniors, but I bet they still find a way to keep them around. Either by creating Glee: The College Years or just saying to hell with the time line.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Okay, so if it's been just a couple days, I'm definitely getting squicked a bit by the Like a Virgin segment. I'm not surprised by how fast Santana moved in on Finn, but what about Rachel with both Finn and Jesse and Will with Emma? Maybe especiallly by Will/Emma given her OCD issues. And when did Terri move out, considering how recently Will was sleeping on mattresses in the school building?
I did giggle at Sue's claim to be 29, although that would make her 7 when she claimed to be at the Palladium. Not so sure about that one LOL.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think the first episode was a few days afterwards, but the second episode could have been a week or two.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
What did you all think about last nights episode?
Spoilers below if you haven't watched it.
Quinn FINALLY got some lines this episode. About time. Mercedez was great, and I hope Sue learned a lesson from the pep rally.
The whole thing with Kurts dad and Finn's mom was hilarious, especially since it began as a ploy by Kurt to get closer to Finn. I kind of felt bad for Kurt since his dad and Finn ended up getting along so well. At the same time, Finn deserves a father like figure he can relate to. Kurt obviously gets along with Finns mother, so I think Kurt is just being selfish.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
How long ago did I call it on Finn's mom and Kurt's dad?
There was absolutely no Rachel for the first 10 minutes. I think that's probably a good thing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: What did you all think about last nights episode?
Spoilers below if you haven't watched it.
Quinn FINALLY got some lines this episode. About time. Mercedez was great, and I hope Sue learned a lesson from the pep rally.
The whole thing with Kurts dad and Finn's mom was hilarious, especially since it began as a ploy by Kurt to get closer to Finn. I kind of felt bad for Kurt since his dad and Finn ended up getting along so well. At the same time, Finn deserves a father like figure he can relate to. Kurt obviously gets along with Finns mother, so I think Kurt is just being selfish.
I think we'd all feel a little better about it if we saw Kurt bonding with Finn's mom. Kurt needs someone to go shopping with and all that jazz.
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
I still love Kristin Chenoweth. So happy to see her again. I am now just patiently waiting for the Joss Whedon directed episode and Neil Patrick Harris.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I thought "Run Joey Run" was a really good song. I didn't really like that they relied on two pre-shot music video style songs. I don't mind one here and there, but I hope they don't get carried away with them. I thought it was a good place to show the different vocal styles of the guys, and Puck really showed through.
"Total Eclipse of the Heart" was only off to me because I can't get the version with William Shatner out of my head. Otherwise it was fine. Also, it appears that Jesse is genuinely involved with Rachel. I don't see why he'd break up with her, assuming that's how it ends up, otherwise, since they made it look from the beginning that he was just setting her up for a fall.
Good music, and I liked the messages presented in it.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It's so weird, because I was just thinking of "Run, Joey, Run" during the afternoon before seeing Glee. And wondering if David Geddes had done anything else.
The "Total Eclipse" cover was knock-out great. The performances on this show have improved a lot since it started.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Everything about last night's show was good except for the Sue parts, which were weird, gratuitious, not original (shot for shot and note-by-note remakes), and felt shoehorned in.
The stuff with the kids was great.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I wonder if they'll ever give Sue a comeuppance without having one of the Glee kids inadvertently handing her a big victory. Still, I liked the stuff with her sister. She has a way of delivering a message more powerfully because she is such a lovably reviled character. I noticed the heaviest yet use of electronic editing of voice with Sue in "Physical."
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I actually can't get the literal version of Total Eclipse out of my head...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
If you like that one you should see the Meatloaf literal version... I think it is just as funny. Created by the same guy too.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Okay, last night's was fantastic. There's my show - cheesy, sentimental, lots of songs, focused on the kids. I approve.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I agree. I feel like this was the first episode that captured the feeling of the first half of the season. I really enjoyed the scene with Rachel and Finn's handicapped friend. It seems Rachel is finally becoming a bit more humble.
I still want more Quinn though! Every other character has gotten some lines, and she has just been on the back burner. I want a Quinn centric episode. They keep mentioning she is having a really hard time in her life right now, with getting kicked out of her parent's house and now leaving Finn's house and moving in with Puck.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I feel like the writers/creators are bit impulsive, and they careen from one idea and story to another. I'm just holding my breath that this show doesn't go completely off the rails like their first one did. That means every episode is a bit of a crap shoot, and storylines are dropped and emphasized oddly. That's okay - they seem to be mostly consistent with Finn, Shue, and Rachel, so their center is okay, and for the rest I just enjoy the ride. Unless the soundtrack is Madonna.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I continue to be impressed by Mark Salling's performance ability. His voice isn't the most powerful on the show, but I do think it's the smoothest, and the most able to pull off songs like "Sweet Caroline" and "The Lady is a Tramp" which require more than just belting it out. Plus, the more they do with him, the more his acting ability is fleshed out, though the character still comes off as pretty one dimensional.
Glad that Santana finally got to shine a little bit musically. She and Brittany are being bumped up to series regulars next year, which really just leaves Brittany as the only one in need of a solo nod.
I thought the scene with Rachel and the football player was powerful in a number of ways. It was excellent just for what it was, as a little PSA, as an exploration both of paralysis and identity. From purely plot based perspective, I thought it really helped move Rachel forward. It kind of makes me wonder why they didn't just do that scene with Artie, but I see the significance of actually doing a scene with a a real-life disabled person. If he was going to be a recurring character, I'd worry that there'd be a lead up to a big moment where he thinks Rachel loves him but the whole thing was a mistake. I'm almost glad he's a one-off, only because that scene would be painful to watch.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Ok, spoilers for anyone on the other coast.
I'm betting on evil plot. I mean, the woman's motto is "Murder or be murdered". Getting maternal 15 years later doesn't seem all that plausible. (Aside, did Rachel say she was born in '91? Wouldn't that make her 19?)
Also, I'm glad I screamed at the tv two weeks ago when they made me feel a little bad for Jesse. He's still an evil spy, and evil spies get no sympathy.
As for the numbers, I think Dream On may be my favorite of the year. I thought they were just fantastic. And I loved that Safety Dance looked like one of those You Tube videoes where the dance troupe surprises people with an unscheduled public dance number. I thought that was a nice touch.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
She said '94. I remember hearing that and feeling very old.
Joss and NPH drew me in, watched it for the first time tonight. Not bad..
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Too bad it's a momentary laspe in suckiness. I've been getting closer and closer to dropping Glee every week but I'm glad I stuck around for this episode.
Maybe it was because Sue wasn't in every scene. Maybe it was the complete lack of Finn and lines for characters like Tina and Artie instead. Maybe it was because, for the first time in awhile, Rachel's craziness was endearing rather than simply annoying. Maybe it was because Will acted like a decent human being and lived the lessons he's always telling his kids, instead of being a man whore and getting into childish fights with Sue.
Having NPH on was AWESOME, but even if he hadn't been on, it was still the best episode this season.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I love that video. The Fonzi has an army of clones and It started out as Hogwarts and now it's Lord of the Flies" brings me to tears everytime.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Half the episode, after the initial competition for Jean Valjean arose, I was wondering what was wrong with one of them being Javert. I mean, it's not as good a role, but it's not bad.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
We already know that he can pull off Javert quite well. I was honestly hoping their audition duet would be Confrontation rather than Dream On. And I think that talk show clip led to NPH being Dr. Horrible. So I'm really hoping that he'll be at least a recurring guest so we can get Confrontation eventually
Meanwhile... I find myself wondering how long they've been planning the maternity storyline with Rachel. My daughter actually thought that Idina was playing Rachel when the show first started.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I wish they had done The Confrontation from Les Mis. NPH is always joking that he breaks into it all the time with his fellow actors from HIMYM and it might have been interesting.
I'm glad they went a bit more into why Idina's character wanted Jesse to spy on Rachel other than just to bring down the glee club. Unless she isn't really her mother and this is part of a larger plot, but if that's true, I don't care for it.
Musically, loved Dream On, liked I Dreamed a Dream, most of the rest was meh, except I actively disliked Artie's "Dream a Little Dream."
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I agree. Dream a Little Dream was just off.
I too wonder whether Jesse was sent to McKinley to spy on Glee because of Shelby's relationship to Rachel, or if she merely jumped on that expressed dream as a way to further fracture the group.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Okay. I loved this episode. NPH and Idina Menzel?! How much better can you get!!!
I got the chills when she sang with Lea Michelle.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I actually wasn't super impressed with it as a duet. I think Lea Michelle would have absolutely nailed it by herself, and I bet Idina Menzel would do okay with it on her own. I'm not sure I'd even say it was better than Susan Boyle's version. I don't think it compares to the London stage version.
I know the theme of the episode was dreams, but I would have highly preferred to hear Lea and Idina do "A Little Fall of Rain." I think it would have fit, it's a duet, it's in their wheelhouses musically, and Lea Michelle was cast as Eponine in the anniversary revival of Les Mis. Plus, I think it would have been better than their rendition of IDAD.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It wouldn't have made any sense, though, unless Shelby was dying.
[ May 21, 2010, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: It wouldn't have made any sense, though, unless Shelby was dying.
That might just explain why she was so antsy to have Rachel listen to the tape. She did tell Jesse that Rachel's under 18, so Shelby can't approach her openly, Rachel has to come to her. If Shelby is dying, she may have been told that she doesn't have enough time left to make it to Rachel's 18th birthday.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
But if she was dying, they might have sung Little Fall of Rain. Granted, we don't know why now - what prompted this? I think it was Shelby watching Rachel Berry blow the roof off at Sectionals.
Maybe they still will, although I doubt they'd repeat another song from the same musical.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It doesn't have to be that literal.
I Dreamed a Dream wasn't used the same way in the show as it was in the musical. To express regret sure, but under incredibly different circumstances.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:I'm not sure I'd even say it was better than Susan Boyle's version.
I ask this question often: If you hadn't seen the backstory for susan boyle and someone had just sent you an .mp3 of her Britain's Got Talent performance, would you still find it impressive?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Impressive? Yes. The back story didn't really do anything for me anyways. It rarely does on BGT, because most of the bigger performances on their are scouted beforehand. Very few of the breakout performers come to BGT without the producers already knowing who they are before they do the preliminary audition.
Sellable? Probably not the BGT performance. It was raw, and they only aired half the song. But it was impressive. She obviously needed a fair bit of work from that point on. But her recorded version is quite good. I think if she was going to do it on stage, I'd suggest something in between the raw emotion of the BGT performance and the more polished studio version.
You don't think it was impressive?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
No--it was average. Close to pitch, well-produced, but totally average. There's thousands upon thousands of college-trained singers that are better. I found the social media campaign offensive--especially because people were so manipulated by BGT's setup. Boyle had been through 10 rounds of judges (including Simon Cowell) before she showed up on stage. They knew exactly what would happen.
If you truly enjoy her singing for what it is, I won't deny you that. That's just an argument of taste. But from someone who studied music in college and is still active in the music community, I ask people to examine their assumptions and broaden their perspective a bit.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Went back and rewatched this week's musical episode. I really wish there was a full-length version of the "Piano Man" duet. Neil was rockin' that one.
I liked "Dream a Little Dream." But its hard to hate the vocals when I'm distracted by the lame tap choreography. I have a feeling that whoever choreographed "Safety Dance" was there for a one-time thing. Overall, considering that the glee club is competing as a show choir, they're gonna have to start dancing soon if they want to beat Vocal Adrenaline. Standing on stage and swinging one's arms while singing "passionately" is not gonna cut it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: No--it was average. Close to pitch, well-produced, but totally average. There's thousands upon thousands of college-trained singers that are better. I found the social media campaign offensive--especially because people were so manipulated by BGT's setup. Boyle had been through 10 rounds of judges (including Simon Cowell) before she showed up on stage. They knew exactly what would happen.
If you truly enjoy her singing for what it is, I won't deny you that. That's just an argument of taste. But from someone who studied music in college and is still active in the music community, I ask people to examine their assumptions and broaden their perspective a bit.
I'm not a trained musician beyond being able to play the saxophone, so I can't really evaluate based on technical things. And like I said, as far as her back story and what not go, I couldn't possibly care less.
I thought her BGT performance was pretty good, but I didn't buy her CD, and other than watching it a couple times on Youtube, I've never gone back to it. I actually thought her other song on BGT, "Memory" from Cats, was pretty awful. Furthermore, I was pleased that she lost the show, not so much because I wanted her to lose, but because I felt there were contestants that were far more interesting and deserving.
A story about a performer's life might get me to listen to something once, but unless what I actually hear is good, it's not going to get me to buy it.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: Went back and rewatched this week's musical episode. I really wish there was a full-length version of the "Piano Man" duet. Neil was rockin' that one.
I liked "Dream a Little Dream." But its hard to hate the vocals when I'm distracted by the lame tap choreography. I have a feeling that whoever choreographed "Safety Dance" was there for a one-time thing. Overall, considering that the glee club is competing as a show choir, they're gonna have to start dancing soon if they want to beat Vocal Adrenaline. Standing on stage and swinging one's arms while singing "passionately" is not gonna cut it.
Safety Dance was a particularly impressive number. I really liked the tap dancing number at the end as well. Yeah to beat Vocal Adrenaline they will need more dancing.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by JonHecht: Half the episode, after the initial competition for Jean Valjean arose, I was wondering what was wrong with one of them being Javert. I mean, it's not as good a role, but it's not bad.
It isn't just that. You can't decide that you're giving your part to someone else. That's just silly.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: We already know that he can pull off Javert quite well.
Oh, that was just superb. I started applauding when they got to the end.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I love hearing NPH sing, but I think MM, at least going by this ep, is a better singer. Much more power and resonance.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
everyone has been picking it apart. I honestly think it was the wrong song choice for both of them, but I still enjoyed NPH in it. At least in the beginning. He controls his voice uniquely.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
The guy playing Kurt's dad seriously deserves an Emmy. He has been nothing short of amazing all season, and tonight was his best performance yet.
And while I'm still not entirely convinced Shelby didn't spin the whole thing as an evil plot, her story this week did get a lot more compelling. It's possessive enough for me to buy it.
I'm honestly not sure there was anything I disliked about this episode. Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.
Just read it. I hear you. I think they were both victims in that scene, and I think Kurt's dad didn't need to be as dramatic as he was. If anyone needs a punch in the face, it's Kurt. It's not fair of him to have entrapped Finn the way he did, to set up their parents, get them to fall in love, get them to move in together, and expect to get to take peeks at Finn when he comes out of the shower. I mean, it's really creepy.
If the show wanted to make a point about it, they could have made us feel sympathetic to Kurt's crush on Finn, not have turned him into a total and outrageous stalker.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Yeah, Santana was awesome. I'm pretty in love with her right now.
As for Kurt's dad yelling at Finn, I halfway disagree with your blog post Lisa. I can't blame Kurt's dad. Kurt doesn't know the situation. He doesn't know that his son has a crush on Finn. He doesn't know that the reason he hooked him up with Finn's mother was so he could be closer to Finn.
What he DID know was that Finn was using language that was durogatory, especially to his son. If Kurt's father had known what his son was doing to Finn, he would not have been justified.
I understand Finn was frustrated, but that still does not excuse the tantrum and language he used. If he would have sat down with Kurt and just TALKED to him instead of just keeping it all inside and exploding, I think they could have worked something out. Likewise, Kurt should have asked Finn for his input in the room. He should have made it clear that he would respect his way of life.
In your blog you gave the example of a guy in college that caught his roommate in bed with another guy, and that he slept in the hall. If the gay guy had found his roommate in bed with a girl, how would this be any different? Would the reaction of sleeping in the hallway still be justified?
I think Kurt's dad just did what any father would do, which is to protect his kid. Had he known more of what was going on he may have acted differently. Had Finn sat down with Kurt's dad and made it clear that he respected Kurt but felt uncomfortable with the situation and gave his reasons, I'm sure a compromise could have been made.
I like how Puck is growing up, but I still don't want him with Quinn. I like Finn and Quinn together too much. Quinn has grown alot over the course of the show from a stuck up cheerleader to a more mature woman.
The whole storyline with Rachel had me rolling my eyes. I really don't like Rachel, and I feel the show would be a whole lot better if she was not on the show. I don't know if it was the writer's intent to make her unbearable, but she constantly annoys me to the point that I wish she would just leave. She lacks something the rest of the cast has. I can't quite put my finger on it. Heart? Tact? Humility? A personality? Maybe a combination of those.
Good news for Glee though. It just got renewed for a THIRD season, even though the first season has not finished yet. Yipee! (More Santana and Quinn please)
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I think Rachel lacks relatability. Though I am enjoying this mommy storyline, probably because I'm in love with Idina Menzel.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I agree that her problem is relatability. I love quirky, out there, slightly insane characters but there has to be some human connection to keep them from just being obnoxious rather than lovable.
I think I would like her more if her character was growing and developing. Every few episodes she learns a lesson about humility, and then next week its like nothing ever happened. But that's my overall problem with Glee. Every episode feels like a stand-alone because the storyline and the characters never go anywhere. Their behavior and the plot depends entirely on the setlist for the week. There's very little consistency.
And Geraine, I agree with everything in your post!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Musically - Hated "Bad Romance." I think the original is frighteningly catchy, but this version was choppy and didn't seem to mesh well with the Glee style, though I will say that Santana's voice alone seemed to capture it. Furthermore, if they were going for bad high school rip-off of the music video, they succeeded. "Funny Girl" was good. I've actually never heard the song before, but I've heard of it. "Shout It Out Loud" was okay I suppose. Guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. I liked the acoustic "Poker Face" and especially liked "Beth."
Story: Yeesh. There was a lot going on this episode. Figgins thinking vampires are real was pretty funny, and actually I thought they could have done a little more with Tina's story rather than just using her as an excuse to sing Lady Gaga. They could have done something better with that.
I really think they're rushing the plot with Rachel and Shelby far, far too quickly. That was three episodes of material crammed into one. I suspect it was because of the limited time they had with Idina Menzel, but if you can't do it right, don't do it at all. I don't think it's a terribly written storyline, but I do think thus far it has been choppily executed. If the whole thing ends up being a big switcharoo and she's not really Rachel's mother, I'll stop watching the show. That doesn't seem likely, but who knows.
As for the Kurt/Burt/Finn storyline, I sort of agree with Lisa's blog link. I agree that Finn never should have sat there for the browbeating, as clearly Burt was missing many of the salient details that led up to Finn's ill-tempered outburst, and having the whole thing look like Finn was the bad guy when he had a LOT of uncomfortable, imposing, rude and thoughtless crap put on him seemed to be stretching the bounds of Glee's usual message of the week. I think Finn was a victim here. I think Kurt was also a victim. But I think portraying Finn as a bad guy because they needed to have a sympathetic character learn the lesson was a poor choice, because it totally undermined what he was going through as well. I don't think, however, that Kurt quite realized what he was doing to Finn. Finn was right, Kurt hasn't accepted that yet. Finn's not a bigot, but he's also not in love with Kurt, and Kurt hasn't been able to parse Finn's response without trying to cram him into that binary.
I'm kind of glad in a way that things aren't going quite so well for Kurt. This whole thing started because of his selfish plan to get into a relationship that was never going to happen. It seems to be working out well for their parents, who from what I can tell have had a rough life and could use some companionship, but Finn was dragged along for the ride. I don't blame Kurt's dad at all for yelling at Finn. He had limited information, and he acted on it in defense of his kid, and maybe because he thought Finn needed to hear it and he really cared about Finn not being hateful.
All in all not one of my favorite episodes. I think that the guy playing Burt Hummel did a great job with the scene, and had it been justified, it would have been a great speech. But I can't get over how wrong I think it was to make Finn out to be the bad guy when there was clearly enough evidence to show that he was a victim suffering a different kind of torment, but his victimization was not only brushed under the rug, but demonized. It's especially disappointing because I think the show has done such a great job of approaching some of these issues in the past.
Also, as far as Kurt being effeminate: I assumed that was just because Chris Colfer was sort of effeminate, and the character was written for Colfer, who impressed the casting directors so much that they created the role specifically for him.
Shanna - Totally agree with the stand-alone problem. I like stories that have plot arcs and build from episode to episode, maybe with the occasional excellent stand-alone episode, but the season thus far, with a couple exceptions, has been one disjointed mess as far as continuity goes. The only long-term storyline that really panned out was between Will and Terry. But we never got the payoff (other than one very well acted scene) in seeing how Terry dealt with it afterward. I too would like to see the lessons carry over from week to week and actually see some real growth from all the characters, rather than having to learn the same lessons over and over again.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Maybe I'm weird but I totally read guilt in Kurt's face after his dad gave that lecture to Finn. So it was quite confusing when I didn't see the payoff.
I still hold that there's no excuse for Finn's language. He and Kurt were both victims and abusers in this episode. I think a great writing team could do something with the Kurt and Finn dynamic. Over a season we could watch them learn from each other. Kurt could use some of Finn's compassion and Finn could use some of Kurt's self-confidence. I think they could have a great brother/friend relationship.
But in the hands of the current Glee writers? I expect lots of future squicky awkwardness.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
quote: As for the Kurt/Burt/Finn storyline, I sort of agree with Lisa's blog link. I agree that Finn never should have sat there for the browbeating, as clearly Burt was missing many of the salient details that led up to Finn's ill-tempered outburst, and having the whole thing look like Finn was the bad guy when he had a LOT of uncomfortable, imposing, rude and thoughtless crap put on him seemed to be stretching the bounds of Glee's usual message of the week. I think Finn was a victim here. I think Kurt was also a victim. But I think portraying Finn as a bad guy because they needed to have a sympathetic character learn the lesson was a poor choice, because it totally undermined what he was going through as well. I don't think, however, that Kurt quite realized what he was doing to Finn. Finn was right, Kurt hasn't accepted that yet. Finn's not a bigot, but he's also not in love with Kurt, and Kurt hasn't been able to parse Finn's response without trying to cram him into that binary.
I'm kind of glad in a way that things aren't going quite so well for Kurt. This whole thing started because of his selfish plan to get into a relationship that was never going to happen. It seems to be working out well for their parents, who from what I can tell have had a rough life and could use some companionship, but Finn was dragged along for the ride. I don't blame Kurt's dad at all for yelling at Finn. He had limited information, and he acted on it in defense of his kid, and maybe because he thought Finn needed to hear it and he really cared about Finn not being hateful.
QFT
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Rachel's character might not be relatable to us normal people, but to ambitious type A drama queens with big dreams, I think she plays it to a T. What I mean is, she IS relatable to a small audience out there somewhere.
As for Finn/Kurt/Burt scene, I thought the acting was sensational. For a show that can totally miss nuance and subtlety, it was a good scene. As for the issue, it's preaching to the lowest common denominator here--and let's be honest--the show has been since the beginning.
Lastly, I want to comment on how much we lose in the music when it's so painfully over-produced. A phrase I heard recently is that "there's magic in the mud". Astringently auto-tuned voices don't sound like music to me--they sound like imitations of music.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think that the guy playing Burt Hummel did a great job with the scene, and had it been justified, it would have been a great speech.
This. I really wish Finn's mom had come downstairs with Burt so when he told Finn he had to leave, Finn could have turned to his mom and announced, "I never wanted to live here anyway. You made me!"
The adults, who should have thought things through better, ignored every one of his protests at the beginning. They trapped him in a situation he didn't want, gave him no follow up attention that we saw, and then lost it when he flipped out. I mean, that should not have been unexpected.
At the same time, I think Burt had a point. I do think Finn's a bit homophobic beyond just the crush awkwardness. Though the most telling sentance for me was when he said he thought the kids these days just knew what it's taken him a lifetime to figure out.
I think everyone in the situation was pretty unreasonable and selfish. And I've seen enough people do obviously stupid things like that that it worked for me.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: As for Kurt's dad yelling at Finn, I halfway disagree with your blog post Lisa. I can't blame Kurt's dad. Kurt doesn't know the situation. He doesn't know that his son has a crush on Finn. He doesn't know that the reason he hooked him up with Finn's mother was so he could be closer to Finn.
That's not the point. The writers knew. Kurt's dad is just a fictional character. The show wanted to make a point, and they did so by demonizing a victim, and then making the victim plead guilty. Worse, there isn't any indication whatsoever that Kurt was out of line. And he was way out of line.
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I understand Finn was frustrated, but that still does not excuse the tantrum and language he used. If he would have sat down with Kurt and just TALKED to him instead of just keeping it all inside and exploding, I think they could have worked something out.
Right. I don't know if you noticed, but Finn has "just talked" to Kurt about his inappropriateness. Kurt doesn't care. He shrugs it off and does whatever he wants to.
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Likewise, Kurt should have asked Finn for his input in the room. He should have made it clear that he would respect his way of life.
You think?
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: In your blog you gave the example of a guy in college that caught his roommate in bed with another guy, and that he slept in the hall. If the gay guy had found his roommate in bed with a girl, how would this be any different? Would the reaction of sleeping in the hallway still be justified?
Hell yes! Except that I've never run into that situation, and never heard of my friends in college running into it.
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I think Kurt's dad just did what any father would do, which is to protect his kid. Had he known more of what was going on he may have acted differently. Had Finn sat down with Kurt's dad and made it clear that he respected Kurt but felt uncomfortable with the situation and gave his reasons, I'm sure a compromise could have been made.
Again, it isn't an issue of that. It's the message that the writers decided to give, which was that it doesn't matter what Kurt does. He's always okay.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
1. Finn's mother is doing a HORRIBLE job of parenting. I, actually, blame her the most. She MOVED HIM without warning, without his buy in, and clearly without even having a conversation about it. As much as Kurt schemed to put Finn in that awful situation, Finn's mother made it happen. I don't know what the writers have against mothers, but she's a miserable failure. Finn should never have been placed in that situation.
2. Kurt's dad did the right thing by defending his son, but he did a very, very bad thing by letting Finn know that Finn was nothing but unwelcome baggage that came with his mother. If they were truly equal siblings with the same rights to the house - if that was Finn's home - the conflict would not have been resolved - even if it WAS what Kurt's dad thought it was - by throwing away one of the conflicting siblings. He clearly made it known that Finn would never be anything but a barely tolerated, unwilling guest in that house. Good for defending his son, but bad, bad handling, even if he hadn't so badly misunderstood the situation.
3. Kurt is a creepy, sleazy predator. Good heck. I don't know what the writers think they are doing with him, but what they are actually doing is lending support to a whole lot of a scary, negative stories about gay guys trying to seduce or convert their straight friends despite the straight guys being polite and making it very clear there is no interest at all.
Poor Finn - you're a teenage boy, and your mother has sold you down the river for her own sex life. You lose your home, lose faith that your only living parent will consider you, and are forced to LIVE in a place where you feel and have substantial reason to believe that your roommate does not respect your clearly stated boundaries.
4. Add to that that Finn has proven his kindness to Kurt many times, and that whole story line was a tragic, lame Mary Sue fantasy fulfillment.
I don't think Kurt learned the right lesson here - respect Finn's boundaries. He mostly looked sad that he didn't get to be in Finn's company by contrivance anymore.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: 1. Finn's mother is doing a HORRIBLE job of parenting. I, actually, blame her the most. She MOVED HIM without warning, without his buy in, and clearly without even having a conversation about it. As much as Kurt schemed to put Finn in that awful situation, Finn's mother made it happen. I don't know what the writers have against mothers, but she's a miserable failure. Finn should never have been placed in that situation.
2. Kurt's dad did the right thing by defending his son, but he did a very, very bad thing by letting Finn know that Finn was nothing but unwelcome baggage that came with his mother. If they were truly equal siblings with the same rights to the house - if that was Finn's home - the conflict would not have been resolved - even if it WAS what Kurt's dad thought it was - by throwing away one of the conflicting siblings. He clearly made it known that Finn would never be anything but a barely tolerated, unwilling guest in that house. Good for defending his son, but bad, bad handling, even if he hadn't so badly misunderstood the situation.
3. Kurt is a creepy, sleazy predator. Good heck. I don't know what the writers think they are doing with him, but what they are actually doing is lending support to a whole lot of a scary, negative stories about gay guys trying to seduce or convert their straight friends despite the straight guys being polite and making it very clear there is no interest at all.
Poor Finn - you're a teenage boy, and your mother has sold you down the river for her own sex life. You lose your home, lose faith that your only living parent will consider you, and are forced to LIVE in a place where you feel and have substantial reason to believe that your roommate does not respect your clearly stated boundaries.
4. Add to that that Finn has proven his kindness to Kurt many times, and that whole story line was a tragic, lame Mary Sue fantasy fulfillment.
I don't think Kurt learned the right lesson here - respect Finn's boundaries. He mostly looked sad that he didn't get to be in Finn's company by contrivance anymore.
QFT
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!
Blech.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Lisa,
To me, it doesn't matter what the WRITERS knew. When producing a TV show, what the writers as well as the audience know is different than what the characters know. Burt's character didn't know what was going on, so his reaction was more realistic to me. If he had more information he may have reacted differently. If I had a gay son and I came downstairs and heard someone saying durogatory things to him, I'd be pretty mad and give the person a lecture as well. If I knew my son had been harassing the person, I may act differently.
Finn is probably my favorite guy character. I think he is a good kid that gets caught up in doing things that others do. Every once in a while he shows some leadership qualities. I don't think he MEANT to offend Kurt in the way he did, he was simply frustrated.
That being said I understand Finn felt trapped in the situation, but he made no effort to sit down and talk to someone about it. This episode was the first time that he even told Kurt that he noticed how he looked at him, etc. When he found out Quinn was pregnant he went to Mr. Shuster, and he has gone to him with other challenges he had been facing as well. He never made the effort to discuss the situation with Mr. Shuster, his mother, Burt, Emma, Kurt, or anyone else.
I think Kurt finally realized that he had messed up when his dad was yelling at Finn. I hope he apologizes to Finn and they can move past this. A brother/friend relationship would be good for both of them, but only if Finn doesn't have to worry about Kurt's advances.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It's "derogatory".
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Sorry, that is one of those words that for some reason my brain cannot spell. Necessary and occur are others that give me trouble.
I apologize for offending the spelling police.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I think Kurt finally realized that he had messed up when his dad was yelling at Finn. I hope he apologizes to Finn and they can move past this.
I was hoping that would happen by the end of the last episode, but instead, when Finn tried to talk to Kurt, Kurt acted like Finn was the bad guy, and in the end, Finn was the one who had to make the apologetic gesture. They wasted any chance for character growth on Kurt's part, and instead, forced unnecessary and I think harmful "growth" on Finn.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It read like revenge fantasy fan fiction. I'll show that nice guy in high school who was straight despite my yearning for him to be otherwise! He'll be humiliated for not loving me despite my manipulations!
Posted by Emreecheek (Member # 12082) on :
I think what the writers know *is* important. Okay, Kurt's dad acted without all of the information. I thought, sure this is really over-dramatic and cheesy, but it will be over soon. And maybe we'll see Kurt explain things to his father. About how he is a gay man who is quite literally checking out his friend, who must undress near him. Finn's sexuality doesn't really matter - I'm gay, and I would not feel comfortable rooming with somebody who was blatently checking me out in that way unless it was my husband. Otherwise, it's just exploitation. It's demeaning, not to mention just a little humiliating to be on the receiving end of such objectification. Nothing in Kurt's character has led us to believe he would not be taking some kind of advantage of Finn being his roommate - Nay, Kurt orchestrated it.
But, oh yeah. So I thought the plot would then be fixed. Kurt's father would see how completely unreasonable his behavior was given the facts (Even in his ignorance, I didn't understand how kicking Finn out of the house was at all helpful... And for that matter, Kurt's dad said that he acted the same way when he was Finn's age... Why not explain to Finn what exactly made him stop using such language and why?), Kurt would realize how sexually sleazy he was being, and Finn would not arbitrarily link a "faggy" lamp to Kurt's creepiness. But no. Instead, Finn apologizes, Kurt refuses to speak to him, and then Finn makes it all better by cross-dressing. That's how what the writers know matters. They know all that we know, and yet they are deliberatly preaching a doctrine justifying horrible behavior on Kurt's part.
Say whatever you will about the plot (I'll say it's horrible), but speaking for societal implications, I'm frankly embarassed as a gay man about the whole debaucle. I believe the messege sent is horrible. Blech!
And, I really don't think Kurt's becoming a gay symbol, at least to most of my gay friends. He pretty much just represents the same upper-middle class male factor of the community that's been represented for years now, minus the sexual promiscuity (Though I believe that that's aparently only because of a lack of opportunity). My parents would have had to make about 40,000 dollars more a year while I was a teenager in order for me to relate to Kurt. Glad to see that the materialistic sterotype of the gay man is still going strong.
Which brings me to another tangential gripe: Why do all of the Lima kids have so much money? I've lived in Lima. It's not a wealthy town. Where's the working class in the show?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not convinced they ARE all wealthy. Finn's mom certainly isn't. They made a whole deal out of how they treated themselves by spraying the lawn green. Not exactly rolling in dough. Kurt's dad is a mechanic, but he's also a small business owner. I haven't seen any particular evidence as to the financial status of any of the other characters. Well, except Quinn's parents appear to be upper middle class.
By the by, how is it that Kurt's house has two and a half bathrooms, but only one bedroom for the parents, and the kids have to share the basement? That makes zero sense. Any house with that many bathrooms would have more bedrooms.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
It makes sense if there's a bathroom downstairs for the basement. Kurt's dad seems pretty handy so I can't imagine he wouldn't convert a corner of the basement when they turned it into a bedroom.
On the subject of finances, blame the writers who'd rather have a fun costume budget than be consistent with the world they created. Personally, I'm still annoyed that Rachel's mom could turn out such a cool and complex costume in a matter of hours. So yeah, Kurt's dad is just a mechanic but Kurt has the kind of money to go crazy redecorating his bedroom and buying all sorts of fancy clothes.
You can't care about that nonsense when you have people breaking out in song and dance without any practicing.
Btw, we see Vocal Adrenaline practicing alot. I actually hope they kick the Glee Club's butt based on that fact alone.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I still think it's weird. I grew up in a 950 sq foot house with one bathroom, and no basement, and even we had three bedrooms.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The whole thing was completely contrived - it doesn't make any sense at all, especially since Finn's mom was gushing that it was twice as big as theirs. Where's the doubled square feet? A five-car garage?
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.
Wow if that's not the most hateful and flat out tasteless comment I have seen on the internet in ages.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That was a bit harsh. It's really not nice to use that particular F word. The dude was defending his son. I thought that was nice of him BUT You really shouldn't just stick two teenage boys in the same room even if they are straight unless they want to share a room. I felt bad for Finn because he didn't have a space of his own anymore because his mother just decided to up and move, but that's no reason to call Kurt that not so nice F word that is not very polite. Or to throw it in his direction.
Also Kurt was rather brave standing up to those jock jerks like that. Good for him.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
quote:Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!
Blech.
Oh please..Kurt is a teenager with a crush. If that makes him a predator then pretty much every male on the planet is one. The room was an ill advised peace offering. Finn gets a pass on being upset only because of the strain he has been under. He loses that pass the very second he drops the F-Bomb.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:
Which brings me to another tangential gripe: Why do all of the Lima kids have so much money? I've lived in Lima. It's not a wealthy town. Where's the working class in the show? [/QB]
Kurt's father is successful, not wealthy but doing well. Mercedes family is successful as well.. Quinn's Family is well off. Finn's family is poor and is Puck's. I am not sure about Rachel's family. Clearly they could afford to pay off Rachael's mom but other than that we know nothing. We don't know anything about the rest. Out of all of them that we know about only Quinn's family could be said to have a lot of money.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
quote:Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!
Blech.
Oh please..Kurt is a teenager with a crush. If that makes him a predator then pretty much every male on the planet is one. The room was an ill advised peace offering. Finn gets a pass on being upset only because of the strain he has been under. He loses that pass the very second he drops the F-Bomb.
You don't think the situation was a little bit different than that of your average adolescent crush? He manipulated his parent and that of his crush into falling in love so he could room with his crush in order to sneak peeks at him and convince him to fall in love. Every male on the planet does that?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Uh, how can you make your dad fall in love with some dude's mom?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You haven't seen the Parent Trap?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Speaking of, the MONEY Kurt's dad offers Finn, which Kurt TAKES.
First, if you feel the urge to pay off a sixteen-year-old so he keeps his mouth shut and goes with the flow, then maybe you should rethink your "parenting" activities and recognize your actions suck.
Second, Finn doesn't even get the money. His bribe gets stolen by Kurt, and Kurt's dad just lets Kurt take it. Right off the bat, Finn is placed at an enormous disadvantage (nothing is his, not even that given to him), and Kurt is a raging, self-centered, entitled brat who gets away with behavior that should earn him a grounding.
Third, the room is for "the person I want you to be". That's who the room was for. That's straight from the Creepy Objectivizer's handbook.
Kurt's dad is great to Kurt, but his enormous blind spot when it comes to his son makes him a horrible, terrible step-father and pretty terrible person. Loving your own child doesn't give you a pass to make another child's life hell, especially when you have told that other kid he could trust you and you have his life in your stewardship.
[ May 29, 2010, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.
Wow if that's not the most hateful and flat out tasteless comment I have seen on the internet in ages.
Don't take this the wrong way, but aside from your comment being a sentence fragment (which I don't mind, because I can't imagine that the part you left off was any lamer than the part you included), there was nothing hateful about what I wrote. Nor tasteless. But thanks for expressing your opinion.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I'm not saying it excuses anything, but I thought that this was a rather insightful reading of the scene in question.
quote:And part of this speech is Burt feeling shame for all the times he used that word in the past, and part of it is anger that Finn is destroying his fantasy that his son could be perfectly safe in the world today.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I completely believe that Burt had complicated reasons for handling the situation so badly. None of it makes kicking Finn out okay. It was bad enough to change his life under Finn's protest in the first place, but to then prove that Finn's reluctance was entirely warranted was too much.
He definitely should have freaked out about the slur, but definitely should not have responded by kicking Finn out. You know what it would take to kick out a teenager? For me, arson or else abuse to little kids.
If Finn's right to the house was so tenuous that he could be kicked out over a verbal argument with a peer, then he shouldn't have been moved into the house, against his will, in the first place.
The behavior of both parents in this episode is so horrible that I have to chalk it up to terrible, contrived writing.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Well I loved last nights episode. Jesse's turn was predictable. For a second though I thought that he was serious about Rachel.
Terri just got really creepy with her flirting with Finn.
I thought the interaction between Mr. Shu and Sue was hilarious. I love Sue's journal segments.
Quinn finally got to sing again! Out of all the characters she is one of my favorites. She isn't annoying, and getting pregnant has taught her humility. She has learned to relate with the people that she once made fun of. I thought it was absolutely great of Mercedes to ask Quinn to move in with her.
I can't wait for the finale next week. Sue is a judge for regionals, and I'm up in the air whether she will try to sabotage Glee club or if she will help them win and show Will that she can be nice every once in a while. If she did Mr. Shue will owe her, and I think she would like that more than shutting down glee. Who would she torment if glee club got shut down?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: The behavior of both parents in this episode is so horrible that I have to chalk it up to terrible, contrived writing.
Terrible, contrived, agenda-driven writing.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I went back and watched the episode, and I can see where both of you are coming from. I still think Burt reacted fairly realistically considering the information he had at the time.
It may have been agenda driven, but I thought the guy that plays Burt made it believable. I did think he was a little overboard with kicking Finn out (Where is he living now?).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Other than Quinn's song, and a little bit at the end, that was the worst episode of the year.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Other than Quinn's song, and a little bit at the end, that was the worst episode of the year.
AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL episode.
Glee writers make things happen with their magical pens. They don't tell stories, they force them down our throats.
Why resurrect Terri? Is there any semblance of a storyline? How ridiculously unbelievable is Shue and Sue? How cruel is it? How out of character? Jesse's turn is also out of character, based on the info we know. The whole episode was so random, and ridiculous.
Except Quinn. Love Quinn.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Usually I let them get away with the fact that there is zero plot continuity and there's no way to guess how characters might act from week to week. But usually they all work as single stand alones, because while the plot is all over the place from week to week, usually it's consistent throughout the episode. This episode was a crazy mishmash of like eleven different plots all happening at once that had nothing to do with each other, and even taken individually made absolutely no sense. The songs didn't even match the material, except for Quinn's. Usually we criticize them for messing up the plot for the sake of the music, but this time they couldn't even mess up correctly.
I'm still holding out for something interesting from Jesse's character. What was that scene between him and Rachel's mom all about? Why lie to the mom if he didn't really have feelings for her? She was supposedly the one who orchestrated the whole thing, so what was there other than blatantly lying to the audience for shock value later? Misdirection is one thing. Discontinuity is jarring and ruins credibility. The only way to fix it now is to have Jesse actually be a triple-agent who is actually sabotaging Vocal Adrenaline to help New Directions, but I'm now left with an obvious fix, and a stay-the-course path that will ultimately disappoint me greatly.
That was just a mess. The music wasn't even good. Are the writers hanging out somewhere with a Magic Eight Ball, Plot Mad Libs, and Pandora Radio on shuffle?
Next year they KNOW they have a whole season, even TWO seasons. The first half was so good, and there have been some incredible flashes of insight and some powerful positive messages in this show, plus some great music. But it's really falling apart in these last few episodes.
Here's how to fix it:
1. Bring back Jonathon Groff as a series regular for the second season. Probably won't happen since he has a lot of stuff going on next year, but if they shot through the summer they could do it. I think he's the best actor, performer, and singer of all the guys, he's funny, and his chemistry with Lea Michelle is rightly impressive given its history, which plays out on screen.
2. Plan two seasons out ahead of time. For the sake of plot continuity, actually plan two seasons out before hand, so everything flows, actually shows an arc, and we can follow logical conclusions with a zany surprise turn here and there, rather than zany surprises being the rule, not the exception.
3. Be more judicious with theme shows. Madonna sort of worked because a lot of her songs have important messages, and the message of the week blended well, and the performances were good. Lady Gaga fell flat because, well, first off the performances mostly sucked, and second, it had nothing to do with anything, it was just an excuse to shove Gaga at us.
3b. Write your plots first, and find your songs second. Right now it seems like they're doing it the other way around. Millions of songs written for hundreds of years, I'm sure they can find appropriate ones to fit the situations they want, rather than turning the show into a contortionist act to try and pretzel the plot around the songs they think go together. Be more creative in the set list for the week. It might require a little more digging, but frankly, some of the best songs have been lesser known songs pulled out of obscurity and remade.
4. Go back to focusing on a couple characters a week. The cast is big, so there's the temptation to use every character every week. The shotgun approach isn't going to work. You can't give every character major attention every week, or it will all fall flat. They need to focus on one or two plot threads a week, consisting of a couple characters each. This week had four plots going simultaneously. Shue/Sue, Mercedes/Quinn, Terri/Finn, Rachel/Jesse, and then broader, ND/VA. With the tiny exception of Quinn's story, which I thought fit perfectly, and was done surprisingly well for what little face time it got, the rest of the stories were rushed and made no sense. Too much! If you're going to have a cast this big, and if a third of the episode is going to be taken up by music, exposition has to be doled out like gold, not candy, which is to say, carefully, because it's valuable stuff. It also pushes them to make better song choices so songs really convey a message, and don't waste time. Think of what musicals do. The best musicals have songs that propel the plot, rather than just sing a meaningless song for the hell of it. Those are also the songs that stick with us.
5. Cut back on the prepared numbers. I actually thought "Run Joey Run" was both funny and entertaining. But they can only do so many set-piece shows like that a month, let alone multiples in an episode. They also need to draw a line between High School Musical random breaking out into song in a traditional musical sense, using the choir room/auditorium for random songs to an empty audience or songs they just do for the hell of it that mean nothing at all, and those prepared numbers. Josh Schwartz said when he started the show that he didn't want it to be randomly breaking into song, but he's already broken that rule several times. I think the first was when Quinn sang "Keep me Hanging On" but I thought it really worked. Since then, it's been a mixed bag. On the other hand, while I think the random songs sometimes make no sense, sometimes they're extremely powerful. Singing "Keep Holding On" to Quinn after he breakdown was powerful. That's the kind of song choice to plot connection I want to see.
I'm losing my attachment to the characters, and if the status quo persists, the show will just be Sue's one-liners and the occasional ballad from Lea Michelle. In other words, something I don't need to watch all the way through, but rather something I can watch for 5 minutes on YouTube and be satisfied.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Are the writers hanging out somewhere with a Magic Eight Ball, Plot Mad Libs, and Pandora Radio on shuffle?
::applauds::
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm highly amused by this thread. I'm sad for you guys that the show has fallen apart, but for me it was unbelievable and random in the very first episode.
It's sort of like Lost. Lost was bad by the first season, and very bad in the second. And it lasted six seasons!
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
It hasn't fallen apart - it's been great these past couple of episodes. It's just this past epiosde, not so much.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I still love Glee most of the time but thought this was one of the weakest episodes of the season. It had no continuity with the rest of the season. I though the Quinn/Mercedes friendship was the only good part of the episode. I am really frustrated by the Rachel/Jesse storyline. I assumed he was double crossing her from the beginning but I don't get why he would then tell Rachel's mom that he cared for her. The music this episode also didn't do much for me.
Hopefully, the season finale will be great!
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
To me the problem is they are spending too many episodes on the characters that are the least interesting.
Rachel, Finn, and Mr. Shue are just not very interesting to me. Kurt, Quinn, Artie, Tina, and Puck are more interesting characters to me. Quinn hadn't had a solo since "Keep me Hanging On" back in episode 4, and I'm glad she finally got one. Diana Agron is absolutely gorgeous and I hope they use her more. Now that Santana and Brittany are being upgraded to full cast members I hope we get some inner monologue moments next season like we have with the other characters.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I agree, kat. I also think Kurt should have said something.
What I find interesting and also think is rather lame is that within the context of the show, getting kicked out doesn't seem to be such a big deal (and no parents are sane -- look at Rachel's mom. What an anti-climatic piece of work that was). Or rather, and this speaks to your point above, it seems to be simply a contrived plot device that the writers reflexively turn to. Look at Quinn. First she is kicked out and living with Finn. And now, apparently, she's living with Puck and his family (when did that happen? was it revealed in an earlier episode?). Or slightly different: Mr. Shue has has three different women in his apartment when he wasn't there since Teri moved out (and she was one of them). And since when does the husband get the place? In general, Glee has a weird sensibility when it comes to home-spaces.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:And since when does the husband get the place? In general, Glee has a weird sensibility when it comes to home-spaces.
Weird sensibility?
Sounds like they have a fair-minded sensibility. She's a blood-sucking destroyer of emotions that defrauded her husband in order to keep him loyal to her whilst inflicting grievous emotional torment, to say nothing of spending all his money on crap while barely holding down a lame, low-paying job.
And your reply is "since when does the husband get the place?" I did notice that he was still there and she wasn't, and my gut response, and the response I still feel is right, is: Damn right.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I thought they sold the house and he'd gotten an apartment?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Part of the uneveness of Glee is how some kids' personal issues are taken seriously and some are brushed aside. If all were taken seriously, or even if things being taken seriously was a rare thing, then the universe could sustain itself. If all the personal issues were treated callously and like a joke, then that would also be sustainable.
But instead, you have some of the students' personal issues treated with (often maudlin) reverence (Kurt, Mercedes, Quinn, Artie) and others' just-as-bad-or-even-worse personal issues treated like tissue paper that they can and should just shake off (Finn, Rachel).
What makes it even worse is that the students who have their issues taken seriously are often the source of much of pain on the part of the students who are treated callously (Mercedes, a little, and Kurt, overwhelmingly).
In the first half of the season, it was a little better and there was some better balance. In the second half of the season, it has been utterly disjointed, and it simply does not work. Either on Planet Glee kids can shake off things in a commercial break that would send most people to contemplate a ledge, or else every passing word is a gigantic event that must be examined endlessly so we cry with the victim and the perpetrators are humiliated and punished. But this one-way-for-some and another-way-for-others is bad, bad writing. Mixing the two in a single scene is atrocious writing.
The only one in the back nine that has been treated with the right balance of seriousness and amusement has been Tina, with her Goth outfits, the reasons for them, and her hilarious solution to the official condemnation of them. Possibly Artie, with his episode, although it came close to maudlin. I credit Joss Whedon for Artie's storyline in the back nine working.
And the Magical Cripples have got to stop.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
quote: Sounds like they have a fair-minded sensibility.
I don't think that the word "fair" can really be invoked here because the material conditions existent in the world of Glee are quite out of whack and overly dramatic . Some of that is justified -- it's a musical, after all, and all the sets are potential stages. And there's no doubt that Teri was a complete psycho. I still think, though, that the way living situations and living spaces are used in the show is inconsistent and incoherent. Sometimes you can flow with it; sometimes it's jarring. And part of the jarring aspect is that TV is an intimate medium that often relies on familiar spaces associated with certain characters and feelings. The rehearsal space has that to a certain extent (although sometimes that gets broken up by the rotating cast of musicians). The living spaces, in my personal opinion, don't.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: But this one-way-for-some and another-way-for-others is bad, bad writing. Mixing the two in a single scene is atrocious writing.
All but one of the writers, producers, and directors of Glee used to be the writers, producers, and directors of Nip/Tuck. I watched that show until the insane melodrama became too much for me. I think the writers are trying to adapt their style to be lighter but they don't really know how to do it well. Everything that attempted lightness on Nip/Tuck always came off as absurd.
My personal suspicion is they'll keep the show watchable for another season before it descends in to everybody sleeps with and betrays everybody else in the style most familiar to the creators.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
God, that explains a lot. I was so happy when Nip/Tuck finally ended. I just couldn't help watching it, but it was so vile...
I guess that explains Jessica Gilsig.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Stupid, splendid, uneven show. That finale was absolutely fantastic.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I loved the finale! I especially loved the musical numbers at sectionals and the tribute to Mr Shue.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Hands down the coolest baby delivery ever put on screen. There were only four musical numbers, but all four of them were completely perfect. I even liked Sue Sylvester, and I've started to hate her. This was really well done.
How come it can't always be this well done? It's the same writers and director as always. So confusing!
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I liked all the musical numbers except Bohemian Rhapsody. I wished they'd done something creative with the song rather than just attempting to recreate it exactly. The choreography was awesome but the musical arrangement fell flat.
And what the heck are they doing with Idina's character. She reveals herself to Rachel but then wants nothing to do with her. And now she's adopting Quinn's baby?!?
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I teared up 3 or 4 times and flat out cried when the kids sang to Mr. Shue. The finale was perfect, just perfect.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Bohemian Rhapsody was an insult to Queen. What a lame arrangement. And throwing delivery into the middle of a musical number was just odd and jarring.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I also enjoyed the finale. The Bohemian Rhapsody fell flat for me. I thought it was boring. It didn't even compare to the New Direction's Journey medley.
I liked how Sue voted for New Directions as the winners. I don't know if it was because she knew it was the right choice and decision to make or if she was just mad at the other judges but that didn't matter to me. One thing that annoyed me about Sue this season as she did not seem like she had a soul. This episode made me see that she does have a little bit of goodness inside of her. I hope they explore why she is so guarded. It seems the only person she really opens up to is her sister.
Was it just me or did anyone else think it was kind of touching when the kids went around telling them what they didn't have or were like before glee club? Finn hit me especially hard when he said he didn't have a father like figure, someone who he could look up to, or someone that could show him how to be a man.
Also, Rachel was actually likable this episode, not to mention gorgeous. This was the first episode that I was actually happy when she spoke.
The scene with Quinn's mother was awkward. I was actually hoping Quinn would tell her mother to get the hell out. I was happy that she wanted Mercedes to go with her to the hospital. Since becoming pregnant Quinn has done a lot of growing up. When I watch earlier episodes and compare them to these last few, she is a completely different person.
Puck seems to be growing up a bit more too. I think he and Quinn will have a full fledged relationship in the next season.
And how about Mr. Shue and Emma? I thought that part was a little unbelievable. They don't have any interaction for several episodes, then all of the sudden..BAM!! I love you!
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Bohemian Rhapsody was an insult to Queen. What a lame arrangement. And throwing delivery into the middle of a musical number was just odd and jarring.
Wow talk about missing the point...... They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: I liked all the musical numbers except Bohemian Rhapsody. I wished they'd done something creative with the song rather than just attempting to recreate it exactly. The choreography was awesome but the musical arrangement fell flat.
I think that was the point. No originality. No soul.
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: And what the heck are they doing with Idina's character. She reveals herself to Rachel but then wants nothing to do with her. And now she's adopting Quinn's baby?!?
She said she didn't want to be in contact with Rachel because it hurt too much to know that she missed all the years she was growing up. She'll have that with Beth.
But... now Rachel's adopted sister's mother is her classmate. That's kind of weird.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
That's my absolute favorite version of Over the Rainbow.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not a huge Journey fan, but they did okay with it. The Queen stuff sucked, but it was supposed to. In general it wasn't the right music for Groff's voice. But I think Bohemian Rhapsody against Quinn giving birth was excellent, and I loved that.
"To Sir with love" and "Over the Rainbow" were both beautiful, easily in my top 10 songs for the season. In general they tugged pretty hard on the heart strings in this episode, and most of it felt natural, rather than forced or contrived.
I like that Sue didn't totally crack, but they showed that she had a heart, and wasn't really out to really destroy these kids emotionally. Also I like that she played it off as desiring another year to make fun of Will's hair (love the joke this ep, btw, not as good as the elves in his hair joke, but funny).
Everyone grew up a little bit in this episode, and the music at the end was beautiful, on the nose, and touching.
Way to make up for a couple weeks of crap. Honestly I had a real sour taste in my mouth after the last couple weeks, and this sent me out on a high note.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: That's my absolute favorite version of Over the Rainbow.
Agreed. I like the original, but the Israel Kamakawiwo'ole version is absolutely beautiful in my opinion.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I don't like Bohemian Rhapsody in the first place, so I have no opinion about Vocal Adreniline's performance of it, but I love that it was intercut with the delivery. Perfect - I laughed out loud when she started screaming at Puck when Jesse was screaming in the song.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
When they started To Sir With Love, I knew I recognized the song, but I couldn't think of the title. When they got to it, I teared up a little.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd never heard it before, but it's a great song, and I really liked their version of it, and I thought it was well timed for what was going on. Very much perfect for what was happening.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas: Wow talk about missing the point...... They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly
My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.
I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: When they started To Sir With Love, I knew I recognized the song, but I couldn't think of the title. When they got to it, I teared up a little.
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas: Wow talk about missing the point...... They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly
My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.
I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.
Except that it didn't suck. It was technically perfect with amazing choreography but it had no emotion. As for the birth sure it was weird but good weird not bad weird and blended perfectly with Jessie singing Bohemian Rhapsody.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I hated the finale. Thought the writing was awful. The plots made no sense, things randomly happen on thes how just bc the writers want them to. It's like bad DMing.
I loved Bohemian Rhapsody - maybe because I was blown away by Jesse, and wasn't blown away by Journeys medley. I also loved the choreography for Bohemian.
I also think it's sick that Idina adopted the baby.
It's just that the show has so much potential.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
If you think that was technically perfect, you need to listen to Bohemian Rhapsody again Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Okay, there was no cymbal at the end. And there were one or two other very minor issues. But it was *extremely* close. None of the differences were anything you could call "creative".
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
My ONLY wish for next season:
A Dave Matthews number.
The show could suck next season, but if I could hear Puck sing "Bartender," Finn sing "Crush," or even Mr. Shue sing "You and Me" to Emma, I would declare this the greatest show to ever hit Fox. Sorry Dollhouse and Firefly. I love me some Dave.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Blasphemy! Though shalt not poison my beloved Dave Matthews Band by allowing the Lords of Karaoke on Glee to defile it!
Having said that, if any of them are going to sing a Dave number, Puck is probably the best suited to it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.
It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Hm. I'm still waiting for Coldplay.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.
It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".
"You and Me" is a DMB song off one of their recent albums. It's either Stand Up or Big Whiskey.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas: Wow talk about missing the point...... They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly
My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.
I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.
I agree. Being soulless doesn't mean that the group lacks creativity. Vocal Adrenaline's version of Winehouse's "Rehab" is still my favorite performance on the show to date. For me, its the one arrangement that feels like its really being sung by a show choir, not just a lead singer with a group doing backup vocals.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I agree that Rehab was one of my favorite numbers. I think they were a lot better at group numbers in the first half of the season, when they sung stuff like "Keep Holding On." Even that was more or less headlined by Finn and Rachel, but 90% of it was group singing, and it was powerful because of it. KHO was also the last time I really remember liking Kurt. I loved the way he seemed to sympathize so strongly with Quinn and I liked how the group as a whole were supporting her. The only other two moments in the entire show where I felt like they were really a group like that was when they sang "My Life Would Suck Without You" and at the end with "To Sir With Love." And two of those were finale numbers. It seems like as the show went on, it became mostly solo performances, or songs where one or two people sang and the rest of the club was backing vocals.
While I love a lot of the individual numbers, "Rehab" and "Keep Holding On" are still two of my favorite songs from S1.
I doubt that will change much in the next season.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
What about "Somebody to Love"?
I remember the end of the pilot, after listening to "Don't Stop Believing" - I knew that this was a show I was interested in watching. it was such a powerful, pumped up, rendition - and I didn't get that again until episode 5 with "Somebody to Love."
That's still my favorite song of the season.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That's in my top ten. But that falls I think closer to the category of Finn/Rachel duet with glee backing, than it does a true group number. I liked it a lot too.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.
It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".
"You and Me" is a DMB song off one of their recent albums. It's either Stand Up or Big Whiskey.
Its Big Whiskey. And R.E.M. has a song named the same thing, but it is completely different Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah I thought it was Big Whiskey but didn't feel like checking. It's not a bad song, but it's nowhere near my favorite off that album. It's probably the most radio friendly though.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Looks like they cast the guy that is going to play Kurt's boyfriend.
Chord Overstreet. I didn't recognize him but I guess he was on iCarly for a while. Apparently he will be in both Glee and Football. He will start out as a friend to Finn but soon becomes his rival.
I also read on Ausiello that the third episode is going to have a life/death situation that one of the main characters is involved in, and that it may involve Kurt and his father.
There is also talk that the situation between Kurt's dad and Finn will be resolved in the first few episodes. Hopefully this means Finn and Kurt's dad will apologize to each other.
New season starts on September 21 at 8 pm.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: There is also talk that the situation between Kurt's dad and Finn will be resolved in the first few episodes. Hopefully this means Finn and Kurt's dad will apologize to each other.
To each other? What on earth did Finn do?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Well, he did call Kurt a fag.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Actually, no, he didn't. He referred to the stuff Kurt had decorated the room with as "faggy".
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Finn was attacking Kurt and used "faggy" to be hurtful. I think an apology is certainly necessary. I'm not so certain that Kurt's dad needs to apologize.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Even if Finn owes an apology to Kurt (and I don't agree; he was not attacking Kurt; he was reacting to a perceived attack on himself), he most certainly doesn't owe one to the man who threw him out. As far as Kurt's dad is concerned, he is either incredibly clueless, or he was fine with Kurt's sexual harassment of Finn. Either way, he owes Finn a huge apology.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Actually, I think they all owe each other an apology, but Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.
The dad didn't really know what was going on and leaped to his son's defense. Fair enough, but next time get the facts before you go on the attack, that's what he owes him an apology for. That was a biting attack, and without getting the facts he was summarily dismissed. Big no-no.
Finn WAS hurtful to Kurt, whether he was justified or not. I think he owes him an apology, regardless of his reasons (which I actually think were somewhat justified, but it was rude all the same).
Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling the writers of the show don't agree with you.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling the writers of the show don't agree with you.
I think you are right Lisa. I hope though that they use some tact when resolving the situation.
If they have Kurt go to his dad and explain the situation and that he was pursuing Finn a little too much and his dad then went and apologized to Finn, I would be ok with that. I REALLY hope they don't have Finn go to Burt and act like he was the one that was completely wrong, but sadly that is probably how it will play out. I don't agree with what Finn said, but after watching the episode a few more times I began to agree more and more with Lisa's view.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That is EXACTLY how it is going to be played out - Finn will grovel and Kurt will get off scott free and be covered with sunshine and ponies.
Ryan Murphy has said in interviews that he will give Kurt the high school experience he wishes he had. Great - the biggest Mary Sue in the world, as written by someone who is still snivelling about high school.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.
I agree with this. Kurt was way out of line. I don't think that the dad was. If he knew all of the facts, perhaps the rhetoric should have been toned down. But in essence he was saying he wanted an emotionally safe environment for his son and he felt that the current situation wasn't providing that. I don't disagree.
Admittedly, the environment was not emotionally safe for Finn either. But Finn chose a very poor way to handle the situation.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: That is EXACTLY how it is going to be played out - Finn will grovel and Kurt will get off scott free and be covered with sunshine and ponies.
Ryan Murphy has said in interviews that he will give Kurt the high school experience he wishes he had. Great - the biggest Mary Sue in the world, as written by someone who is still snivelling about high school.
QFT
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.
I agree with this. Kurt was way out of line. I don't think that the dad was. If he knew all of the facts, perhaps the rhetoric should have been toned down. But in essence he was saying he wanted an emotionally safe environment for his son and he felt that the current situation wasn't providing that. I don't disagree.
Admittedly, the environment was not emotionally safe for Finn either. But Finn chose a very poor way to handle the situation.
Finn did chose a poor way to handle the situation, but it was because he was trying to be nice. He should have told Kurt in no uncertain terms, "Hit on me one more time, and you'll find out what hitting is." But he didn't want to hurt Kurt's feelings. And because of that, Kurt kept at him and at him, and then pulled that incredibly inappropriate room redesign, and Finn just lost it. Sometimes, being nice instead of honest just makes things worse in the long run.
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." Your response was merely criticize my own vagueness of statement, and I wasn't sure at first whether you were being snarky back or taking me way to seriously or what.