Hi all. So, I'm a student in need of a new computer. Now, as a student, the choice between laptop and stationary is pretty clear. When asking around about laptops though, I of course ran into the question about PC vs Mac. So I thought I should get some more opinions. First, being a student I can't afford the most expensive machines. Second, I'm a gamer, but mostly I stick to xbox for that so my demands in that area is not that great. So I would like to ask for your opinions about what kind of laptop to buy. I'm not trying to start a war between mac and pc users, but some advice would be great Thank you!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'll post more later, but you need to consider that buying a Mac also increases your smarminess factor by several orders of magnitude.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
Buy a netbook.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Check and see what kind of support for different machines your university might have. Mine was much heavier on Mac support, so after two or so years there I switched to a Mac. Nobody I've met who's bought one, especially for school, has regretted it. Still the compatibility thing is less of an issue these days because most schools support macs, and anyway it's not very hard to run windows on a mac either, so you're pretty much covered either way.
Some people will say the extra cost of the Mac is a fashion statement, which it kind of is. However, I find the Mac OS to be very comfortable and easy to use, and the hardware is of very high quality in my opinion.
Also this depends on what you're planning to study. Obviously if you're going to do computer science or something, you might want to stick with a PC to play it safe. However for virtually all other academic uses, a Mac will do you very nicely. Virtually any machine you buy these days will have a capacity very much above what you will actually use. Also remember that Apple generally offers a fairly reasonable academic discount and has some very nice deals in certain seasons for rebates on printers or ipods if you buy them and the computer together. I ended up recouping about $500 dollars from the purchase of my last mac with a printer/scanner and ipod. Many PC manufacturers have similar deals as well.
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
I'm a big fan of Mac, but you really need to consider what types of programs and plug-ins you're going to need to use for your classes. Are you an art student? If so a mac may be your best option due to the programs available to various artistic pursuits. If you're a math or statistics major, the most recent version of office for mac doesn't have the statistics plug-ins, so it's probably not your best option.
Also, check on your school's recommendation. Most schools these days have a preference based on your major, but some schools support only PC and leave it up to you to get a mac working if you buy one.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Also remember that Apple generally offers a fairly reasonable academic discount and has some very nice deals in certain seasons for rebates on printers or ipods if you buy them and the computer together.
True, but the selection of printers that falls under this deal is very limited and mostly include photo printers which most students don't really need to print their term papers. If you're on a tight budget, you'd be better served by seeing if the school computer lab allows you to print papers. Most charge about ten or fifteen cents per sheet, but a few allow you to print for free.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
If you already think you're better than everyone else, definitely go with a Mac. Otherwise the culture shock could be unfortunate.
Seriously, though, there are way more apps for a PC. Like andi said, if you're an art student, that's a reasonable excuse to go Mac. Otherwise stick with a PC.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by manji:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Also remember that Apple generally offers a fairly reasonable academic discount and has some very nice deals in certain seasons for rebates on printers or ipods if you buy them and the computer together.
True, but the selection of printers that falls under this deal is very limited and mostly include photo printers which most students don't really need to print their term papers. If you're on a tight budget, you'd be better served by seeing if the school computer lab allows you to print papers. Most charge about ten or fifteen cents per sheet, but a few allow you to print for free.
Well it really doesn't matter about the type of printer if the printer is free with the rebate... right? Are we talking about the print cartridges? Because I think the prices just for blacks was comparable across brands when I bought my printer.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Fight! Fight! Fight!
<--Is trying to start a war between Mac users and Windows users.
Rake, nobody has enough information to make a good recommendation. What are you doing with the computer?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: If you already think you're better than everyone else, definitely go with a Mac. Otherwise the culture shock could be unfortunate.
:yawn:
quote: Otherwise stick with a PC.
Out of curiosity, I would like to know how you have become of the opinion that owning a mac requires excuses or specific reasons outside the norm? Keeping in mind that not everyone, nor most people, in fact, need or even want to deal with the range of programs available for *either* platform, why then is the PC a forgone conclusion? Are we talking purely price points? Cultural bias and class consciousness (which you clearly have in spades)? Functionality? What? What do you actually know about Macs that leads you to believe they fall short in areas of practical, every day use. And again, not for you, but for the average prospective buyer and student. Because I've owned both types, and in terms of functionality, Mac has always won. In fact, Mac wins for me in every category, including availability of good programs- and though I am not most people, I am not exceptional in my needs.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
If you do go the PC route, do NOT get a Dell laptop. I learned that the hard way (as did my roommate and several of my dorm mates.)
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Well it really doesn't matter about the type of printer if the printer is free with the rebate... right? Are we talking about the print cartridges? Because I think the prices just for blacks was comparable across brands when I bought my printer.
I suppose, but a mac with a free printer is still more expensive than a netbook with or without a printer.
Consider that a MacBook costs $999, $949 for students. The promotion allows you to buy a printer and mail in a rebate for $100. (I did not see a promotion for a free iPod on the Apple Store.)
Now compare that with a netbook that might cost anywhere from $400-$600.
Posted by Rake (Member # 9195) on :
Thank you all for your opinions:) Scifi, for the most part I'm only gonna use it for writing, music, surfing and the like, but I want it to handle running some games, not the newest and most demanding, but still. And I would prefer the battery to hold for the better part of a schoolday, atleast.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanna: If you do go the PC route, do NOT get a Dell laptop. I learned that the hard way (as did my roommate and several of my dorm mates.)
Weird, I've only had good experiences with Dell laptops.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Then my advice is to get a model that runs windows, and maximize battery life and your other hardware preferences within your budget. You can probably get all the word processing, music, and browsing software you will need for free instead of buying it, so the cost of buying software equivalent to a Mac's standard inclusions isn't an issue (or you could buy some of it, such as MS Office, for less than the difference in initial cost).
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Then my advice is to get a model that runs windows, and maximize battery life and your other hardware preferences within your budget. You can probably get all the word processing, music, and browsing software you will need for free instead of buying it, so the cost of buying software equivalent to a Mac's standard inclusions isn't an issue (or you could buy some of it, such as MS Office, for less than the difference in initial cost).
Open Office is free to download for both Windows and OS X.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I'd agree with scifi. If you're looking budget offerings, I think you're probably better off going with a PC, unless your college is full on Mac with support, which would be pretty odd.
You can get a good PC for much less than you can get a Mac. That part of those ridiculously obvious that they are paid actors commercials is correct. If you do go PC, I'd recommend making sure you don't get stuck with Vista though. Windows XP or (hopefully) Windows 7 are less burdened with suckitude.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by manji:
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Then my advice is to get a model that runs windows, and maximize battery life and your other hardware preferences within your budget. You can probably get all the word processing, music, and browsing software you will need for free instead of buying it, so the cost of buying software equivalent to a Mac's standard inclusions isn't an issue (or you could buy some of it, such as MS Office, for less than the difference in initial cost).
Open Office is free to download for both Windows and OS X.
Yep, and I'd probably use that instead of MS Office unless I needed to extensively collaborate or interface with a Microsoft-based environment.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'd note that the extra cost of the Mac is actually because they come with a lot more (and mostly higher quality) programs than PCs come with. Periodically they do price-point comparisons and Mac actually comes out ahead because you save money on the bundled software and hardware. The question is whether you actually need those things.
When in doubt, though, if price isn't much of an object one way or another though, with a Mac you can always get Windows to run on it, which doesn't work the other way.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: When in doubt, though, if price isn't much of an object one way or another though, with a Mac you can always get Windows to run on it, which doesn't work the other way.
Technically, you can. It's just not as easy. I believe they call it "Hackintoshing".
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
You will be happier if you buy a Mac. You will be richer if you buy a comparable Windows machine.
Which is more important to you?
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rake: Thank you all for your opinions:) Scifi, for the most part I'm only gonna use it for writing, music, surfing and the like, but I want it to handle running some games, not the newest and most demanding, but still. And I would prefer the battery to hold for the better part of a schoolday, atleast.
You will almost certainly find better deals on PC's The only possible reason for a Mac is if your going to be a visual artist. Macs are seriously over priced. They are basically just the computer equivalent of a designer label. Plus do you really want to be a Mac user?
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:Weird, I've only had good experiences with Dell laptops.
Same here. I've had nothing but Dell laptops for the past decade or so and they have been very reliable. I currently have three of them that I use daily. Dell is the standard issue at the company I work for and they have thousands of them. If they had any sort of systemic problems I doubt the company would invest so heavily in them.
I also have one MacBook Pro and the battery life is miserable compared to my Dells.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I also have a Dell, and it was a workhorse for the first three years, then suffered some big problems. My warranty covered all of them, and it's back to working like a champ, but I'd never say a bad thing about them.
I went with an HP this time for budget reasons, but I won't have it until the end of the month.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I prefer Mac for reasons others have already stated. The quality of the programs are better, the OS is more stable, and they require FAR less maintenance than PCs do. I've spent countless hours troubleshooting PCs over the years (and still do, for my friends who bought cheaper laptops that were "just as good"). I've had this macbook for 2 years and the number of problems I've had is staggeringly low. I also don't have to spend hours reading manuals and learning how it works. I turn it on, download programs, and everything works--quickly and efficiently. I also got a deal with an ipod/printer when I bought it.
It's more than just looks. They're great products. My macbook is my most satisfying purchase to date (followed closely by my iPhone). Although I've never had to use it, I've heard Apple tech support online and in person at the Apple Store is fantastic.
There's my plug. I could have gotten a similar deal with a PC for about $400 less--but with the amount of time I've saved NOT dealing with problems on my computer and the quality of the experience with Mac, it was definitely worth it.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
at all the PC users in this thread who feel the need to put down Mac users.
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
quote:Originally posted by manji: Buy a netbook.
i second that recommendation, especially if youre a student. theyre practical and relatively inexpensive but offer the internet, word processing, music, long battery life, and a small, lightweight design. newegg is a good place to cross-examine machines, spec-check and read customer reviews.
being a student myself, if i had $400, id buy an asus netbook..
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
It's incredibly hard for us to tell you unless you say what you want to use it for. That said, odds are you'll want to get a PC. Be careful if you get a Dell -- their AC adapters have had issues in the past. I recommend the Thinkpad T-series. Good luck.
quote:Originally posted by manji:
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: When in doubt, though, if price isn't much of an object one way or another though, with a Mac you can always get Windows to run on it, which doesn't work the other way.
Technically, you can. It's just not as easy. I believe they call it "Hackintoshing".
Yep, you can -- seems to me that the the fact that you have to jump through hoops to get OSX to run on a PC is an issue with Apple, not PCs.
--j_k
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Making something work on the diverse hardware options out there is rather a lot of work. It makes sense to focus on a few combinations.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
"Jump through hoops" being defined as... installing the Windows Operating system? I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't had any issues with windows on my Mac. (I've had issues trying to get things like Parallels to run, but that's a complication beyond just getting an OS to run as normal).
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You've read the sentence reversed. He's talking about getting OS X to run on a non-Mac.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Oh, gotcha.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:Making something work on the diverse hardware options out there is rather a lot of work. It makes sense to focus on a few combinations.
And it forces you to provide support a bunch of terrible 3rd party hardware -- in their defense, that's a problem Macs never seem to have.
--j_k
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I bought a macbook a little under a year ago. Until then I had always used PC.
I have been very happy with my purchase so far. It has a lot less hassles than PC. There is also a ton of low cost software for the mac that in many cases works better than what you will get for more money on the PC.
And windows works very well on the mac. Either through bootcamp (which comes with mac, but requires a reboot) or with parallels which you must buy, but can run seamlessly along with the mac os.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I got the parallels trial just after Snow Leopard came out, and it didn't seem to work much at all (everything I did was painfully slow). Is that how parallels normally is or does anyone know if it's a problem unique to Snow Leopard and Parallels 4?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
What model is your Mac?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
It's a Macbook Pro from about two years ago. (About This Mac says "MacBookPro,3,1."). It can run Crazy Bump (a fairly simple program that converts black and white images to 3d maps), but really chugs on even simple games (Maybe Parallels just isn't meant to handle games, but I'm talking games of "Braid" quality or simpler)
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I'd guess that virtualization would tend to slow down anything that utilizes DirectX.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I got the parallels trial just after Snow Leopard came out, and it didn't seem to work much at all (everything I did was painfully slow). Is that how parallels normally is or does anyone know if it's a problem unique to Snow Leopard and Parallels 4?
I have not upgraded to snow leopard yet, so I'm not completely sure if it is playing nicely with parallels yet. Some programs need minor upgrades to work perfectly. I have used parallels for a couple of games (similar to braid) and they worked fine, though mostly I used it for windows apps and such before I found replacements for them that are made for the mac.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Do you need your computer to work? If you do, pretty much get a Mac. If all you're doing is gaming, websurfing, and printing out the occasional term paper, you will be happy with a PC, although that's no promise (the occasional weird, annoying issue can crop up).
In your case, I'd say this is close to a 50-50. You're not going to be demanding anything unusual from the machine, so a PC will often get the job done. However, having said that, PCs are much more prone to crazy weird issues, from viruses and compatibility problems to other, manufacturer-specific issues.
Be ready for headaches with the PC. They may not happen, but you really want to be ready for them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote: Otherwise stick with a PC.
Out of curiosity, I would like to know how you have become of the opinion that owning a mac requires excuses or specific reasons outside the norm? Keeping in mind that not everyone, nor most people, in fact, need or even want to deal with the range of programs available for *either* platform, why then is the PC a forgone conclusion? Are we talking purely price points? Cultural bias and class consciousness (which you clearly have in spades)?
"Class consciousness"? You're funny. Also, you're a good example of the "thinking you're better than everyone" thing.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:Do you need your computer to work? If you do, pretty much get a Mac.
Oh come on. Most of the people getting anything done with a computer are doing it on a PC. The Mac is a fine machine, but to suggest that life with a PC will be one of misery and pain is just silly.
The best advice, if your computer literacy level is such that you need help deciding between a Mac and a PC, is that you get the type of machine that is owned by whomever you are most likely to be asking for computer help from in the future.
[ October 18, 2009, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: MattP ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Oh come on. Most of the people getting anything done with a computer are doing it on a PC. The Mac is a fine machine, but to suggest that life with a PC will be one of misery and pain is just silly.
Second.
PCs get a raw deal. I've heard people wax poetic about their Macs, and I have zero reason to doubt their claims. Indeed, they sound like rather excellent, extremely expensive pieces of machinery, and I'd like to have one some day when I can afford it. Until then, I've used PCs all my life, and except for the occasional minor annoyance, and once every couple years, one big headache, they're absolutely solid, and I see no obvious reason why I should switch, especially give the price difference.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
On the other hand, my macbook (not even pro) is so much faster, more reliable and generally more fun to work with than our desktop PC. But that is running Vista.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:On the other hand, my macbook (not even pro) is so much faster, more reliable and generally more fun to work with than our desktop PC.
That said, I guarantee you that my desktop PC is faster, more reliable, and more fun than your Macbook. Unless you're throwing your Macbook like a frisbee, which is something my desktop doesn't support in its native mode. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: "Class consciousness"? You're funny. Also, you're a good example of the "thinking you're better than everyone" thing.
Mmm, not really. I'm a good example of the "thinking my computer is better than yours" thing though. Of course, that's just subjective and varies between individuals. You were the one that came out swinging against Macs, and mac users, with unjustified snark (along with your usual lack of substance and follow through).
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP:
quote:Do you need your computer to work? If you do, pretty much get a Mac.
Oh come on. Most of the people getting anything done with a computer are doing it on a PC.
I'm sorry, that's rather weak. Are you talking about programming? Are you talking about specific types of work like using a computer at a cash register or a call center or data entry? It is not Apple's mission to provide products for those industries which can be better served by cheap and disposable computers, and Apple provides a *much* smaller range of products than are available in the PC market. That said, its a well known fact that Apple has strong quality control and reliability track records, and ships machines with hardware that is of good quality. That's something I think most of us can agree on, regardless of our opinions of the products themselves, or other products. Why does this fact have to be in dispute? There are many companies with good quality control and reliability reputations, and that's fine. The PC market *has* companies in it without these bona fides, and that creates problems for some users. Still on solid ground?
I mean really, it's like saying the majority of driving is done in Fords and Toyotas, and that's a reason why they're better than Aston Martins. The statement has some validity, ie: it's easier to buy a Toyota and get it serviced, but these are not necessarily the things people are thinking of when they talk about which product is better suited to an individual, or even which product is actually superior, if it even matters.
Face it, Macs and PCs shouldn't even be in the same boat for us to fight over them. Apple has a niche market so they can focus on a vertical product delivery system, and that works for them, really, really well. There will never be a computer that is all things to all people, so perhaps we should all just grow up and look after ourselves in this regard.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Orincoro, this:
quote: mean really, it's like saying the majority of driving is done in Fords and Toyotas, and that's a reason why they're better than Aston Martins.
...seems to indicate you missed the point. MattP wasn't making an equivalent claim. He was saying that buying a Windows PC is not very likely to lead to significant headaches, that's all.
quote:The PC market *has* companies in it without these bona fides, and that creates problems for some users. Still on solid ground?
Well, now you're talking about vendors, not platform. I'm sure you can find (used, tweaked, otherwise nonstandard) Macs from shaky vendors too.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'm talking about manufacturers. Apple has authorized dealers or their own stores, and anything else can't be brought into the same discussion on their own quality control.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Unless you're a power user like TomDavidson--which means you know how to take care of your computer with regular maintenance and oversight--my experience is that PCs will INEVITABLY cause headaches within 2 years of purchase. I ran my PC for 4 years with no huge issues because I spent lots of time taking care of the computer. I gave it to my little brother and within 6 months I had to come home to format the hard drive and reload windows, and within a few weeks it became sluggish and problematic again--it wasn't being taken care of.
In summary, my claim is that in order to have a headache-free experience with PCs, you have to be a competent user. Macs require *less* competence to have a headache-free experience, because they give the user a little less access to "mess things up" in the system. TomD, on the other hand, has access to every aspect of his OS, allowing him to maximize system performance, but he's invested hours of his life into learning about computers and how to take care of them--while most people haven't.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I don't pretend to be a haxor or anything, but I did a major facepalm last week when a woman I met started asking me for computer help because she had downloaded an entire season of an HBO show, and was shocked to discover that her "computer was full," and wanted to know how to fix the problem. It sometimes does make me shudder to realize that there are people out there using computers, a lot of people, who are essentially like aircraft pilots who only know how to work the stick, and nothing else. As long as the plane is flying, things are fine, but I don't get how someone could sit around satisfied with the idea that they have no concept of what to do should anything unexpected ever occur.
And no, Tom, this is not an opportunity for you to make a smart remark a Mac user saying such a thing.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:I'm sorry, that's rather weak. Are you talking about programming? Are you talking about specific types of work like using a computer at a cash register or a call center or data entry?
I'm talking about the fact that most of the world is using PCs to do, well, anything. They aren't all looking at a blank screen while smoke billows out from under the desk. To claim that if you need your computer to work you should get a Mac is extraordinarily broad.
I've owned Macs and PCs. I currently have two Macs and several PCs and both flavors have had their share of minor and major failures. That's why I recommend getting the one for which you'll be able to get local support. Even if the PC does cause you more problems than your Mac, you'll be in more hurt with a Mac if you don't know anyone that can help you out when the Mac does have a problem.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: at all the PC users in this thread who feel the need to put down Mac users.
Good thing none of the Mac users are doing the reverse.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
MattP:
quote:I've owned Macs and PCs. I currently have two Macs and several PCs and both flavors have had their share of minor and major failures. That's why I recommend getting the one for which you'll be able to get local support. Even if the PC does cause you more problems than your Mac, you'll be in more hurt with a Mac if you don't know anyone that can help you out when the Mac does have a problem.
Your failure to hate on one side is disturbing.
----
I learned to use a PC when I was 5 years old, we learned how to use DOS in school. For four years I learned how to use Apples as a 2nd-5th grader. Since High School I have always used a PC as my primary computer. My father is now an avid Mac user (He likes to do alot of music/movie projects) and hence every single one of my siblings has a Mac laptop and they have a Mac desktop. I am the only PC hold out. From what I have seen from both systems MattP has things exactly right.
If you have good Mac support, and more especially if your school pushes Mac, (my youngest sisters private school is now exclusively Mac), and you care about film, music, animation, security from viruses, and price isn't as much of a concern, a Mac will suit you very well.
As a PC user, my last PC that I had for 5 years never once had a hardware related problem, the PC before that lasted 7 without a problem. My current PC is only a year old and so it's hard to say but so far it's problem free. My older sister, and younger three siblings with Macs have all had to take their computers to the make store to get a total system restart. From what I have seen Macs break down just as often as a comparable PC. Of course you can scrimp and save on individual parts if you go PC but that also ups your chances of having a problem if you don't know what you are doing.
I game quite a bit, and for that reason a Mac would be a drag, I also do not have as much money to budget on a Mac system.
As for operating systems the Mac OS is really good, I'm not as familiar with it as I am with Windows so it's a handicap when it comes to fixing my own problems were a Mac I owned to get buggy. I understand that Windows is an extremely convoluted program that could use some streamlining and some talented programmers, but for my purposes it has done everything I have needed it to do without a problem.
My biggest qualm is Internet Explorer, but Firefox and Chrome are more than enough to replace that head ache.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"They aren't all looking at a blank screen while smoke billows out from under the desk."
That's just funny. Hyperbole...it's the funny! LOL
Seriously, though, it really depends on the type of apps you are using. Although you can sort of separate it into "macs are better for graphics, PCs are better if you have to use a lot of web-based apps", it's really more true that you have to be even more specific than that. And that's just looking at work. For gaming, you've got to look at what types of games you play. If it's only a few, and they're all supported on Macs, get the flippin' Mac already! However, if you just want to be able to game, in a general sense, and you happen to often enjoy obscure titles, you need a PC.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: at all the PC users in this thread who feel the need to put down Mac users.
Good thing none of the Mac users are doing the reverse.
Do point out to me where PC *users* have been disparaged (and not individuals, but users as a group). Because I can point out easily where Mac users have been dissed for no good reason.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: at all the PC users in this thread who feel the need to put down Mac users.
Good thing none of the Mac users are doing the reverse.
I chose to focus on the more egregious violators, but, yes, people on both sides in this thread have annoyed me. I don't understand why it has to happen every time there's a computer thread.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: I don't understand why it has to happen every time there's a computer thread.
I completely agree. My point was, that by focusing on just one side, you are actually contributing to the very tendency you are decrying.
But yeah, it sucks that the computer threads get as vituperative as the religion threads. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: vituperative
Nice word there.
And I second (third, fourth?) the notion of getting a computer for which you either know how to troubleshoot or know people who can help you with troubleshooting. I have already spent several hours helping someone clean their PC and making it run smoothly again, but the point is I was *able* to do it. Had it been a Mac, even one that had less frequent problems, it would have probably meant a lot more time spent fixing each problem.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: I don't understand why it has to happen every time there's a computer thread.
I completely agree. My point was, that by focusing on just one side, you are actually contributing to the very tendency you are decrying.
You are certainly correct, but its also worth noting that when one side has been far more vituperative than the other, it rarely helps to call them equivalent.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Yeah, I agree that Mac users are, by and large, a lot more condescending. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corwin:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: vituperative
Nice word there.
And I second (third, fourth?) the notion of getting a computer for which you either know how to troubleshoot or know people who can help you with troubleshooting. I have already spent several hours helping someone clean their PC and making it run smoothly again, but the point is I was *able* to do it. Had it been a Mac, even one that had less frequent problems, it would have probably meant a lot more time spent fixing each problem.
Honestly, I think this is much less of an issue if you buy a Mac. I own both and have a bootcamp partition on my current mac. And while the Mac's aren't hassle free, they certain are far less hassle than anything running windows (including the my MacBook running under bootcamp). In 20+ years of owning Macs, I've had only one problem I wasn't able to fix myself with relative ease, and that was a logic board failure when the machine was still under warrantee.
The Mac OS does a much better job of managing things like hard disk space so it simply doesn't require a lot of the maintenance that Windows requires. Plus the combination of better native security and being the less popular platform really do mean less trouble with viruses and other types of malware.
I've often joked that sysops prefer windows because it gives them better job security.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Yeah, I agree that Mac users are, by and large, a lot more condescending.
"Look at this coffee. Its French or something. You probably don't even know what France is."
I'm a Mac user, and I dressed up as Raven for Hallowe'en one year. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
A real Mac user wouldn't even have to dress up as Raven. Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
When I open up Finder, and try to list my files and folders in descending order alphabetically, it mixes my folders with my files. Windows and Linux usually shows a clear delineation between files and folders. Not so with OS X. When I order by type, Folders are listed in the middle, as if it were any other file type. So, it was impossible for me to get folders listed at the top, without going into my Mac's guts. Eventually, I went into Terminal or edited a preference file, or something, and changed the Folder type from "Folder" to " Folder". Such a hack. Only on a Mac do I have to go to such lengths to get something every other operating system offers by default.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Admittedly, I do wear turtlenecks on occasion. It's getting to be that season now, actually.
On the issue at hand, I agree with the "go with whatever you can more easily get support for," provided you have no budget constraints. Budget constraints work against Apple since they have nothing in the lower-cost market segments -- the cheapest Apple laptop is around $1k.
I'm a Mac user, but I stick with them because it's a personal preference, the higher price for comparable hardware isn't a major issue, and I have a substantial investment in software. For example, if I switched to Windows, I'd also have to migrate from Logic to ProTools or Cubase for my musical projects.
For someone with no preexisting investment in either platform, it's roughly a toss-up unless you have specific requirements (e.g. staying current with PC gaming) or constraints (e.g. budget).
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Yeah, I agree that Mac users are, by and large, a lot more condescending.
This coming from the king of the computer nerds.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: If I switched to Windows, I'd also have to migrate from Logic to ProTools or Cubase for my musical projects.
Have you ever used those? I used Cubase in college and really liked it, but the price tag for migrating from Logic onto a mac version of Cubase was unbelievable, and anyway I had already invested a lot of time learning the Logic tool set (and still haven't learned most of it).
I just found for my money that Cubase had a smoother UI, although once you acclimate, either program is more or less equivalent in power.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Yeah, I've used both Cubase and ProTools -- several versions ago, at this point -- and found them incomprehensible at the time. I dropped down to GarageBand for a while until I started hitting its limitations, by which point Apple had made the Logic UI a bit more similar to GarageBand and dropped the price from $1,300 to $500.
Spread comfortably over two monitors, I've found that once I figure out what I need to do, actually doing it is pretty easy in Logic, provided it's supported.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Logic's UI doesn't compare in versatility to the others, in my estimation. And anyway, even the full version of Logic Pro doesn't have some basic editing tools in the sample window that are in Cubase of several versions ago. I've been watching some tutorial videos to try and see where I'm not utilizing logic, but I find it to be quite frustrating in its lack of comfortable UI in many cases.
I mean, why wouldn't logic include basic stuff like allowing you to handle sample fades within the arrange window? Cubase had a function where you just had to drag down from the corners of the sample, but logic makes you do it in the automation bar, which just makes things needlessly cluttered.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Cubase and ProTools must have come a long way in the last six or seven years, then.
You don't necessarily have to do sample fades manually in the automation bar, by the way. You can configure fade presets that are applied across the board when a crossfade is needed. If you want to do it differently each time, though, I do think you have to expand the automation bar.
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at all the PC users in this thread who feel the need to put down Mac users. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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