quote:

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Damn, I wanted to get caught up on the book summaries before it came out, but I forgot. I will be reading it.

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quote:

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The book is available now in the UK and, with the worst cover in the history of modern publishing, in the USA.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
He has to be blackmailing TOR with something.

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quote:

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But to read a book where things just keep happening, where a chapter ends at a momentous moment, only to pick up a few chapters later (as opposed to a book later), well, I am very satisfied.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jay:
Bela killed Asmodean

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quote:

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Originally posted by DDDaysh:
JonBoy, that's what audio books are for!

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I actually hate passively listening to people talk for long stretches. My mind starts to wander and then I realize that I haven't been paying attention for the last several minutes.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I will be buying it tomorrow, probably.
 

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Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
 
I'm not really into "epic" fantasy, but my brother is. He's also in the gave-up-on-jordan-but-now-its-sanderson-yay group.

Anyway, he's shared these w/ me, and now wants me to share w/ you all.

Rinkworks "Book-a-Minute" Ultra-condensed books:
Eye of the World
The Great Hunt
The Dragon Reborn
The Shadow Rising
Fires of Heaven
Lord of Chaos
A Crown of Swords
Path of Daggers
Winter's Heart
Perrin: I was going to rescue my wife, but that will have to wait for the next book.
Mat: I was going to escape with my friends, but that will have to wait for the next book.
Egwene: I was going to attack Tar Valon, but that will have to wait for the next book.

Crossroads of Twilight
(Rand BROODS and DREAMS about his THREE WOMEN.)
Minor Characters: There is a large use of the One Power over there. (repeat indefinitely)
Perrin: I was going to save my wife, but that will have to wait for the next book.
Egwene: I was going to attack Tar Valon, but I won't finish it until the next book.
Mat: I might flirt with Tuon in the next book.

New Spring
Reader: I was going to wait for the next book, but that will have to wait for the next book.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Boy:

quote:

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Originally posted by DDDaysh:
JonBoy, that's what audio books are for!

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I actually hate passively listening to people talk for long stretches. My mind starts to wander and then I realize that I haven't been paying attention for the last several minutes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amilia:


Rinkworks "Book-a-Minute" Ultra-condensed books:

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Heh. I just *barely* quoted book-a-minute on another thread.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 

quote:

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I actually hate passively listening to people talk for long stretches

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quote:

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I prefer the much more robust and rewarding fantasy of...Terry Brooks.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
WoT is not discriptive enough.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:

quote:

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I actually hate passively listening to people talk for long stretches

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Depending on what you mean by "passively listening", I'm the same way. I listen to a lot of audio books, but only while I'm actively engaged in something else. I've gotten pretty good at hitting pause when I need to pay more attention to whatever I'm doing than I can while listening.

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Ditto that.

I'm giving my brother Gatherin Storm for Christmas. He figured that he waited long enough for it to come out, what's another two months? I'm still back on...uh...Winter's Heart and need to catch up eventually.
 

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Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Reread Knife of Dreams recently (which wasn't as good as I remembered, probably cause I had originally read it after Crossroads of Boredom, but still decent), and read the prologue for TGS last night. It was easily the most briskly paced prologue in the series, at least since Eye of the World.

Mistborn was terrific so I have high hopes for the remainder of this series, especially after Sanderson's good start with the prologue. It'll probably take me a week or two to plow through this, but I'm pretty excited about it.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I like all of the books that Ron just mentioned, BTW. Great writing.
 

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Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
 
I think I'm the only person in the world that actually thinks Wheel of Time got better as it went on. I wasn't really all that excited about the first couple of books. In fact, I probably wouldn't have even made it through "Eye of the World" if it wasn't for "New Spring". I had spent weeks struggling through the first few chapters of EotW when I ended up getting New Spring on audio from the library and listening to it in the car. New Spring made me care enough about the characters to pick up the pace with EotW. "The Great Hunt" almost made me give up, and is still my least favorite book in the series, but "The Dragon Reborn" was better, and after that I really thought they were mostly pretty good. I didn't find Crossroads of Twilight slow, I found it fulfilling. I love all the day to day life, all the sub plots, and the endless number of minor characters who have real lives. The ONLY thing I don't like about the books is Jordan's tendency to be overly descriptive about scenery, clothing, and the way all the books start with the whole, "it wasn't the beginning but it was A beginning..." thing.

I'm REALLY enjoying this book though - but I want more Egwene!
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Boy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
WoT is not discriptive enough.

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You may be the only person on the face of the earth to have voiced this complaint.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
...and all the main characters are ridiculously prickly and hostile, expecting everyone to defer to them. Nobody seems to love anybody, except themselves.

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quote:

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The ONLY thing I don't like about the books is...the way all the books start with the whole, "it wasn't the beginning but it was A beginning..." thing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sean Monahan:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
...and all the main characters are ridiculously prickly and hostile, expecting everyone to defer to them. Nobody seems to love anybody, except themselves.

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I like this about the series. It's a lot different from something like LotR, or Star Wars, where all the main characters are so unified in purpose (though with Lucas, I think that's because he just can't write characters). In WoT, every single person has their own agenda, which they refuse to let anyone else in on. I find it intriguing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DDDaysh:
I think I'm the only person in the world that actually thinks Wheel of Time got better as it went on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Boy:
No kidding, Jordon's lengthy descriptions were what prompted to me to stop reading WOT after the first chapter of book one.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I prefer not to respond to sarcasm when it is poorly done

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Jon Boy and BlackBlade, when I said WoT was not descriptive enough, I meant as a title for this thread, not the books--which if anything, are overly descriptive of every little thing. I said WoT first made me think of War on Terror. I guess some people do not read with good comprehension, or take due note of context.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
That is not funny, it is dimwitted.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Sarcasm is one thing. Lying is something else. Jon Boy lied about what I said. That is not funny, it is dimwitted.

Perhaps it is futile for me to try to educate barbarians in the proper use of literary devices.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Sarcasm is one thing. Lying is something else. Jon Boy lied about what I said. That is not funny, it is dimwitted.

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It was definitely funny before.

But now you've retroactively made it much funnier.
 

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Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
Only the singulary ungifted declare themselves to be funny when they're just being tedious.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
There. Do you feel better now?
 

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Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
 
Verin as black Ajah? I never even considered that. I desperately want to know who Messana and Demondred are? I thought I knew for the longest time, but now... I'm not so sure.
 

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Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
 
Verin straight out lies and Robert Jordan said that he did not just make a consistency error (but RAFO to find out how that all works out). So, black is an option, hunter of black who found rod also an option.
 

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Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
 
DDD, see this FAQ if you're interested in reading some theories about Mesaana, Demandred, and Verin (among many other things). The FAQ contains spoilers through Crossroads of Twilight.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
Verin's mystery is finally answered.
Affiliations are exposed.
The mystery of the "too young" sitters is explained.
Prophecies are fulfilled.
Reunions occur.
Anticipated meetings occur.
Plot threads are ended and some people die.

I keep rereading the ending, as well as scenes that gave me chills.

And still....the ending of the series eludes me. The way this will play out remains a mystery.

So looking forward to Towers of Midnight.
 

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Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 
I have read it.

Like many others, I was somewhat disenchanted with the series from somewhere of Path of Daggers and onwards. Plotwise, I must say that Brandon Sanderson's installment was a marked improvement on the last few books. There was a few unnecessary parts, like Mat's visit to the village (trying to avoid spoilers here), but overall I was pleased with what happened.

Brandon Sanderson's style is servicable, but, in my opinion, doesn't reach the heights of Jordan at the latter one's best. There is a sense av awe and pathos that Jordan sometimes achieved but which Sanderson only strive to accomplish. In that way, I feel a sense of loss that we didn't see what Jordan would have managed to convey, if he had had the time to finish his vision. On the other hand, it is by no means certain that Jordan had it in him to streamline the plot in the way Sanderson has managed.

Overall, I feel that Brandon Sanderson has succeded in bringing the Wheel of Time along in the best way that could reasonably have been expected under the circumstances. I will buy the last two books when they arrive and am pleased that it now seems as if I will shortly see the end of a story that I begun to read over fifteen years ago.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
While the styles were different (and perhaps there was a gravitas in the characters that BS has yet to learn to convey) the fact is, I liked the movement of the story and the characters still felt like themselves (Mat was the most off, but from what I've read, BS knows about this and is working on this in the next book). The character arcs seemed right.

In fact, there is one area where I liked BS better than Jordan. His writing was less oblique. By that I mean, the characters didn't think in circumlocutions, going around and around what they were thinking about (and I can think of a few places in the last few books where that was the case). The fact is, when you're in a character's POV, they should be clear in what they are thinking. IMO, that one aspect only served on purpose: artificial mystery. How bad is it that you can see into a person's mind and still not know what they are doing or what their motivation is? Related to that is what is planned and executed. You know that person planning something, but you're not sure which. Sure there are clues, and in hindsight, it's obvious, but at the time, their POV provides no answers. (And perhaps that's where the character gravitas seemed to emanate from- if so, well, I think the trade off is a good one.)

No, I don't need things spoon fed to me. And the puzzles are fun. But I don't confuse artificial mystery due to authorial obfuscation with actual mystery.

And so what I liked about BS was that the character's thought more clearly. They thought about the past. They were more self-aware. Most importantly, for the first time ever, I saw a WOT character empathize with what Rand had been through (I don't refer to his 3 girls, but someone, who, up until this book, had been pretty high-handed and annoying). Holy crap on stick! Someone actually imagining being held in a box to be pulled out an beaten, and realizing the trauma that would have caused. Someone actually getting a clue. More than one someone.

Maybe that wasn't BS. Maybe that was in the notes. But to see characters finally starting to get a clue....well, that just made things even better.

It wasn't just a hastily thrown together thing where plot lines and mysteries were resolved. It certainly doesn't even come close to the travesty that was the attempts to write the Dune sequel.

It took the best of Jordan and his world, but gave it a new lens: at times clearer, certainly tighter and faster moving (no baths or dresses or pages and pages of description and internal monologue on useless things).

Still WOT. Still awesome.
 

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Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
 
Maybe Mat's visit to the village is to show that death can be healed
 

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Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Erm, Jay, can we avoid outright spoilers, please? I mean that's borderline anyways since I haven't read Mat's part yet....

Actually I'm not surprised if Mat is off, it seems he would definitely be the most difficult character to write, if only because it seemed Jordan put a special part of himself into Mat. I've always thought Mat was the best character, and even in Crossroads, Mat's chapters were fun to read. I think there is a sense of humor that goes into writing him that would be hard to replicate, but that said I hope he's not off in TGS too much, since like I said he's been my favorite character for a long time.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
You are correct about Mat. And he's a hard character to write. The balance between rogue and hero, world-weary soldier and fun-loving. His personality bespeaks someone who has survived battles and has had them affect him. Given that, it's obvious that a person with the experience of BS is not going to get him right the first time. Truth is, he's only slightly off. But Jason Denzel (the guy who runs dragonmount and a friend of BS) has let him know about the 'offness' of Matt's character. Which is good cause we can all guess where the next book is gonna go.
 

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Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
 
So, for folks who have read it- would it be less enjoyable if I were to give in and go find some spoiler sites?
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Yes....Unless you don't plan on reading it, don't ruin it for yourself. Read the book first.

I just finished the book last night, and thought it was outstanding, well written, and it got me excited about the ending of the series. I thought it plotted well, had a few good stories to tell, and one excellent story.

Now I am back to waiting for the next book. I thought this book was one of the best since The Great Hunt, which is my favorite book of the series.

It isn't without problems, but it is a great addition...which is something I haven't been able to say for years.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
I would say yes, but primarily because this book chronicles 2 character arcs. And those arc endings are very satisfying because of what comes before it, because of seeing the character evolution from one point to another. That being the case, the endings of both those arcs can be emotional.

This is possibly more true in this book than in any other from the last, oh 5 books or so.

And I would argue (possibly) that answers to mysteries you've always wondered about are only satisfying when you're actually emotionally invested in the series. So finding out the solution to the Verin mystery, or who killed Asmodean (a much less important mystery in my opinion) is only going to be satisfying if you actually care about the story and the characters.

That being said, there are multiple reviews that are filled with spoilers. Possibly the most entertaining is that given by Leigh Butler here.Again, that review is filled with spoilers.
 

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Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
 
He can't tell us who killed Asmodean! That is just wrong. That should only be disclosed in the last line of the last book.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
It was Verin. With a Candlestick made of heartstone on the top of Dragonmount.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
And this is Verin's secret:
She's a horse shape-shifter and that it was in her BELA form that she killed Asmodean. She took the form of Bela so she could keep an eye on the Dragon Reborn from his infancy onward. Her power comes not from the the True Source or even the True Power, but instead, it comes from a third power, the Twue Source, which can be channeled by equines.
 

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Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Wow, that's hardcore.
 

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Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
So I finished TGS last night. I don't wanna say it was the best since I last read the first 10 three years ago, but it had to have been one of the best. Egwene in particular was fantastic and had a really great story, in fact her chapters in the book were so filled with awesome that she's basically tied with Mat as my favorite character at this point. Rand's story was also very good (more below). Mat and Perrin were pretty much just in it to remind you they're important, Mat's story didn't really do anything particularly interesting but his chapters were still fun, as usual. All in all, Sanderson did an absolutely phenomenal job picking up where jordan left off, and I know that Jordan left extensive notes and some scenes, but for sanderson to so seamlessly take control is quite a feat. At any rate it was easily the best book since Lord of Chaos and probably in the top 3 or 5 at least. It's inspired me to go back and reread the series before the last two volumes come out.

okay, MAJOR MAJOR spoilery thoughts below:
(is there some way to spoiler tag it? I don't see an option using the UBB codes.


Rand's story was really tough to read, but ultimately very satisfying. I never particularly liked what Jordan did with rand, since he basically made the main character totally unlikeable around book 6. His use of the true power and balefiring of the castle in Arad Doman was hardcore, and it seems as though he has reintegrated with Lews Therin, but I don't know what's supposed to have become of his connection with Moridin. Is it gone? Anyways, hopefully, we can get back to liking him again in the last two books. The last scene on Dragonmount was very well done.

Egwene was awesome. The scenes where she tore Elaida a new a-hole and defended against the Seanchan were some of the best in the series. The image of her standing in a hole in the white tower and smiting the attackers was fantasic.

Nice to solve the mystery of Verin. I never thought she was black ajah, but it makes sense that if she was, she was a spy. really cool way to send her off, and thankfully they've mostly purged the white tower of the black at this point. But where's Mesaana? And what does Verin's letter to Mat say? Is Min's vision of him with two Aes Sedai on the scales a decision he has to make between Verin and Moiraine's letters? Surely they'll rescue Moiraine in the next book, especially given the title...

Random speculation: Rand still has to make some kind of bargain with the Seanchan, but what will ever convince them not to leash channelers? Unless they get their asses severely handed to them at some point. But Mat's prophecy is that he will give up half the light of the world to save the world, and the last book is called A Memory of Light... So maybe Mat has to do something that destroys saidar, or something, making the issue of leashing channelers a moot point. Or maybe Mat just convinces Tuon at some point that leashing isn't very nice.
 

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Posted by Imamess (Member # 11549) on :
 
I think Sanderson is doing a great job of bringing all of the many, many plot threads together. This book actually feels like the beginning of the end. Well worth reading.

Rand's last chapter in this one is definitely one of my favorites. The conversation he had gave me chills. Great stuff.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
SPOILERS AHEAD:


Random thoughts:

What I loved the most was the emotional resolution of the Dragon. I am purposely not using the names "Rand" or "Lews Therin" because they're the same person- they always were. The way the series was written, once Lews Therin showed up (in 5- Fires of Heaven), he quickly became a separate character from Rand, in my mind. He was NOT the same person...or at least, that was my visceral reaction to him. Although I have always subscribed to the belief that he was a psychological construct for Rand to access his past life memories, I never really considered Lews Therin's emotional needs as having any impact on Rand.

This book made clear that much of the Rand's pain stemmed from his undealt with anguish for the murder of his wife and family. While not consciously accessing those memories, Rand was still suffering the emotional trauma and guilt for what he had done. His thing against the killing of women (or his allowance of it) didn't stem merely from a outmoded sense of chivalry, but stemmed from what he had done to his wife- her murder.

One top of that kind of unhealed pain, comes the constant betrayals from those he trusted. Egwene even comments on how Rand should have been approached and how trust should have been earned. Instead, by locking him into a box, beating him, they really traumatized him. Almost seems like a PST reaction. Later, in Crown of Swords, when he meets with the Sea Folk on their ships in a cramped cabin and sits in a confining chair his reaction is to get out of there as quickly as possible, ripping the arm of the chair off in the process, because he is confined again. Even more telling is the fact that in Winter's Heart, when Rand is captured in Far Madding and locked up, his reaction is visceral. He thinks he's in the box again- that this is the result of trusting, that he must become as cold as winter's heart. Min then tells Cadsuane that Rand seems to be changing- getting harder, like steel. The title of the book, "Winter's Heart" is about Rand. The opening prophecy says "in winter's heart shall Winter's Heart be born".

Then, as the final straw, we see what happens when Semirhage leashes him and he almost kills Min. That was the break. Something in him snapped and he channeled the True Power. From that point on, he becomes emotionally dead. (The real danger here comes from the fact that he will fall into the same situation that Aridhol fell into- to fight the shadow they became as vile as the shadow. They became Shadar Logoth Something similar was happening to the White Cloaks, though that may have been arrested now.)

But in the last 2 chapters, beginning with his meeting with Tam, we see him finally come to terms with himself and his past actions. That despite the pain and the repetition, the world is worth saving. It's all about second chances- redemption. And he now has a new perspective. His emotional trauma as Lews Therin is at peace. I found this chapter so emotionally moving. I was happy that Rand finally found peace. (Love the end prophecy- the blind man stands on his own grave...)

Now, he still will need to learn to trust Aes Sedai, but then again, they will need to EARN his trust. Egwene, at least, has a clue to how far the Aes Sedai's behavior has pushed him. Hopefully this will lead to some resolution. But then again, he will "know her wrath" (though says nothing about how he reacts to that wrath.) And there's still Min's viewing that Perrin has to be there again to save him from women who can channel hurting him. Not sure who or what that is. Might be the Seanchan. Tuon seems hellbent on subduing the Dragon- a stupid course of action, if you ask me. (Ironic, since she can channel. Maybe she'll be leashed and find out she is damane.) The "half the light of the world, I think ties into Egwene's dream of Matt with his hat pulled down over his eyes and blood streaming down his face, and Min seeing Matt with an eye on a balance scale. He may lose an eye. Seems to fit the mythological character he was reverse engineered from (Odin, wears a wide brimmed hat, carries a spear, hung from a tree for knowledge, accompanied by ravens "thought and memory", lost an eye).

I suspect that Rand's ability to channel the True Power through his link with Moridin will be crucial in sealing the bore. In one chapter (22 I thin), Lews Therin explains that the problem was that something had to touch the Dark One in the sealing- in this case, Saidin, which then was tainted. No reason to believe the same wouldn't happen to Saidar. But if he can use the True Power as a buffer and then seal the bore with both halves of the one power, then the Dark One won't be able to taint either. I think the prophecy about "making the 3 one" refers to this. He has access to the True Power through Moridin.

And Verin was awesome. Black Ajah double agent. In one step, she dealt a crippling blow to the Black Ajah. Bet Ishamael nor any of the others expected someone to do that. Still wonder about Mat's letters though.

Can't wait till next year.

In the meantime, gonna read a few other of Brandon Sanderson's books.
 

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Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Nice post, Ian. Good call on the prophecies relating to Mat - I totally forgot about those until I read your post. I don't know about using the True Power against the Dark One, it seems like he would restrict use of it if someone wanted to turn it against him, but it's an interesting thought for sure.

As for Sanderson, his Mistborn trilogy is a lot of fun. I'll probably end up reading Elantris and Warbreaker before this time next year, too.
 

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Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
 
Just finished this. It is as good as everyone here says.

I'm glad BS decided to finish the series in three books. I can't imagine editing this book down to 1/3 of a book. There is no bloat here.

I'm going to be reading the rest of BS's work.
 

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Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by IanO:
In one chapter (22 I thin), Lews Therin explains that the problem was that something had to touch the Dark One in the sealing- in this case, Saidin, which then was tainted. No reason to believe the same wouldn't happen to Saidar. But if he can use the True Power as a buffer and then seal the bore with both halves of the one power, then the Dark One won't be able to taint either. I think the prophecy about "making the 3 one" refers to this. He has access to the True Power through Moridin.

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quote:

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“We mean to find a place where we can be safe, and sing again.”
“Sing?” Adan scoffed. “I have heard those old stories, too, that Aiel singing was a wondrous thing, but you know those old songs no more than I do. The songs are gone, and the old days are gone.- TSR “The Road to the Spear”

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quote:

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The Ogier began it, as was fitting, standing to sing, great bass rumbles like the earth singing. The Aiel rose, men’s voices lifting in their own song, even the deepest at a higher pitch than the Ogier’s. Yet the songs braided together, and Someshta took those threads and wove them into his dance, gliding across the field in swooping strides…. The song caught him up, and he almost felt that it was himself, not the sounds he made, that Someshta wove into the soil and around the seeds The song faded slowly, the Aiel guiding its end. Someshta danced a few steps more after the last voices ceased, and it seemed the song still hung faintly in the air for as long as he moved. Then he stopped, and it was done.

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quote:

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And he sang.
Rand could not say if there were words, or if it was pure song. In that rumbling voice it was as if the earth sang, yet he was sure he heard the birds trilling again, and spring breezes sighing softly, and the sound of butterfly wings.- TEOTW “The Wheel Turns”

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quote:

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This place. . . ." He shivered, and his ears twitched…."Everything is . . . linked, Rand. Whether it lives or not, whether it thinks or not, everything that is, fits together. The tree does not think, but it is part of the whole, and the whole has a - a feeling… Rand, this land was glad for a weapon to be made. Glad!" - TGH- "Kinslayer"

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