I could use someone whose knowledgeable in Soviet Jewish culture, Soviet contemporary culture and modern Russian contemporary preferably someone whose good in both for comparative purposes.
Someone knowledgeable in Soviet military culture would be nice as well.
Planning on writing a science fiction alternate history series but I am uncertain of the full depth of my 'first rights' inregards to it, as such I'm unsure how much I can discuss it outside of private correspondence.
Also would be interested in anyone knowledgeable in astrophysics, as I intend for the series to be on the 'hard' side of the Moh scale.
Anyone interested in helping me out, please email me at blayne dot bradley at gmail dot com I think I have skype linked to that account.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
........
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: ........
And whats your problem? Care to elaborate your point or would you prefer to just act like a ass?
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Whoa, you're touchy.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: Whoa, you're touchy.
Maybe I am, but reaaaaally? dot dot dot dot is the best you could post? No elaboration? No context? Just rolling your eyes? If you had a thought share it.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Fair's fair, your post was really remarkably unhelpful, bordering on spam. What is the point of posting a line of dots?
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: Whoa, you're touchy.
Maybe I am, but reaaaaally? dot dot dot dot is the best you could post? No elaboration? No context? Just rolling your eyes? If you had a thought share it.
Ok. The single most important thing you need to do now if you have dreams of writing a novel is to significantly improve your ability with written language. Collaboration on technical and historical details is unimportant. Right now you need to learn to write and overcome major shortcomings in your ability to write.
Next, you need to not assume that a line of dots means that someone definitely has a problem and wants to act like an ass towards you.
If I *wanted* to act like an ass towards you, it would be far less ambiguous. I would just be an ass.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Now, what you need to do is first look at stacks of books on the subject, especially first person narratives. Then, talk to experts.
I have several novels I want to work on and one I need to finish soon. I think I need to know more about Japan though.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: Whoa, you're touchy.
Maybe I am, but reaaaaally? dot dot dot dot is the best you could post? No elaboration? No context? Just rolling your eyes? If you had a thought share it.
Ok. The single most important thing you need to do now if you have dreams of writing a novel is to significantly improve your ability with written language. Collaboration on technical and historical details is unimportant. Right now you need to learn to write and overcome major shortcomings in your ability to write.
Next, you need to not assume that a line of dots means that someone definitely has a problem and wants to act like an ass towards you.
If I *wanted* to act like an ass towards you, it would be far less ambiguous. I would just be an ass.
And some people have taken such things to an art form and make it sound like they are the victims when they tick someone off, doing it passively so they can claim they were the ones wronged.
My writing ability on an internet forum is not a correlation to my writing ability elsewhere. Especially since y'know, such things usually get proof readers and editors to straiten out the kinks.
An informal forum post is not something I would expect to be a valid or in your case invalid criticism of my writing ability.
In short get your head out of your ass.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Now, what you need to do is first look at stacks of books on the subject, especially first person narratives. Then, talk to experts.
I have several novels I want to work on and one I need to finish soon. I think I need to know more about Japan though.
I'm taking out
Inside the Soviet Army Suvorov, Viktor The Soviet military experience : a history of the Soviet Army, 1917-1991 Reese, Roger R Years off my life; the memoirs of General of the Soviet Army, A.V. Gorbatov.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:My writing ability on an internet forum is not a correlation to my writing ability elsewhere.
Yes it is, actually. The reason being, once you get into the habit of sloppiness, it's hard to get out of. Editors are there to catch the rare mistakes that even a good writer makes, not to fix up your every sentence.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
My writing tends to go down when I'm tired or agitated, I think it does better when I'm calm and rested.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: An informal forum post is not something I would expect to be a valid or in your case invalid criticism of my writing ability.
In short get your head out of your ass.
I am offering you constructive criticism, not a dismissal, and this is your response? It's immature. The fact stands that I do not believe in any way that you have sufficient skill with writing to move up to this phase of writing a novel, and I do not need to base that on your posts. You have reposted things that you have written that were not posts. They correspond with your general observed difficulties with english.
I also want to note to you that what you just wrote to me translates to you saying that in my case, you don't expect that my criticism of you is invalid. It is just fun to note in the context of you making a post to defend your writing ability.
But honestly, if you just want to be snippy, I should stick with periods.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Those sound fascinating. I would like to read various biographies of folks who grew up in soviet Russia. But I seem to keep reading about Fundamentalist Mormons and other stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Now, what you need to do is first look at stacks of books on the subject, especially first person narratives. Then, talk to experts.
I have several novels I want to work on and one I need to finish soon. I think I need to know more about Japan though.
I'm taking out
Inside the Soviet Army Suvorov, Viktor The Soviet military experience : a history of the Soviet Army, 1917-1991 Reese, Roger R Years off my life; the memoirs of General of the Soviet Army, A.V. Gorbatov.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: My writing ability on an internet forum is not a correlation to my writing ability elsewhere. Especially since y'know, such things usually get proof readers and editors to straiten out the kinks.
An informal forum post is not something I would expect to be a valid or in your case invalid criticism of my writing ability.
First, the way a person posts in general is actually an incredibly helpful indication of their ability with the written word.
Second, you have posted stuff you have written that are not your posts and they pretty much confirm that you are not a good writer. I'm sorry. You're not. You have too many deficiencies with cohesive grammar and clarity, and your structure tends to be runny and amateurish. This is serious. This is not me being a jerk to you. If you want advice about writing a novel, the first thing you have to do is be able to accept that criticism. You are not good at writing.
Third, this part here:
quote:An informal forum post is not something I would expect to be a valid or in your case invalid criticism of my writing ability.
is actually backing Parkour up. You're saying, essentially, "In your case, I don't think your criticism of my writing ability is invalid." Wrong way to start off an argument defending your ability to write!
I don't know what the best choice is for you to improve your writing ability, but it's what you absolutely need to do if you have any hopes of writing.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*wonders how her posts reflect her writing skill*
Because I really want to be a writer and have struggled with several stories for years. Time to take the NEXT STEP!
But, yes, writing takes a lot of practice.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: *wonders how her posts reflect her writing skill*
Haha. Well, if you care, you need to format your posts so that you put your replies to quotes BELOW the subject matter that you have quoted, not ABOVE it.
Take my post as an example: Your quote comes first, then the reply. It is the correct method. it does not confuse people.
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I could use someone whose knowledgeable in Soviet Jewish culture, Soviet contemporary culture and modern Russian contemporary preferably someone whose good in both for comparative purposes.
Someone knowledgeable in Soviet military culture would be nice as well.
Planning on writing a science fiction alternate history series but I am uncertain of the full depth of my 'first rights' inregards to it, as such I'm unsure how much I can discuss it outside of private correspondence.
Also would be interested in anyone knowledgeable in astrophysics, as I intend for the series to be on the 'hard' side of the Moh scale.
Anyone interested in helping me out, please email me at blayne dot bradley at gmail dot com I think I have skype linked to that account.
If the Moh scale measures readability then I'm sure the series would indeed be very hard.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: An informal forum post is not something I would expect to be a valid or in your case invalid criticism of my writing ability.
In short get your head out of your ass.
I am offering you constructive criticism, not a dismissal, and this is your response? It's immature. The fact stands that I do not believe in any way that you have sufficient skill with writing to move up to this phase of writing a novel, and I do not need to base that on your posts. You have reposted things that you have written that were not posts. They correspond with your general observed difficulties with english.
I also want to note to you that what you just wrote to me translates to you saying that in my case, you don't expect that my criticism of you is invalid. It is just fun to note in the context of you making a post to defend your writing ability.
But honestly, if you just want to be snippy, I should stick with periods.
It would have been constructive if you didn't start with just posting periods. Or you know, maybe apologized for writing periods and then progressed with constructive criticism. You did not, you made a very heavy handed criticism of my ability to write entirely from how I post which I do not find fair.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: *wonders how her posts reflect her writing skill*
Haha. Well, if you care, you need to format your posts so that you put your replies to quotes BELOW the subject matter that you have quoted, not ABOVE it.
Take my post as an example: Your quote comes first, then the reply. It is the correct method. it does not confuse people.
But I like putting them on top better...
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I'm going to back Blayne up on this one.
Is he a good writer? No. But how does one get better at writing? By writing. You write things, get constructive criticism, and re-write. You should also do a lot of reading, which is what Blayne is trying to do. I'm probably assuming here where I shouldn't be, but I imagine Blayne isn't under any preconceived notion that all his writing is golden on the first, second, or even tenth draft.
Dismissing Blayne's call for help in writing is fine. Just ignore this topic and move on. But using this as a springboard to attack Blayne's writing and attempt to write a novel under the feigned shroud of 'constructive criticism' is mean and unhelpful. To pretend otherwise makes it assish behavior.
As for the real request at hand, I can't help you out here, Blayne. I only know enough about Soviet and modern Russia to know that I don't know enough to speak with authority. But I wish you luck and hope you have fun writing!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Woot!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Actually, ever since I saw that sand animation thing from the Youtube thread, I've really wanted to read a narrative history of the Ukraine covering Soviet dominance through the Nazi invasion, ending when the iron curtain fell.
I'd also like to read a good biography of Mikhail Gorbachev, and maybe something on Romania under Ceausescu.
I've got this Cold War kick going on at the moment, but not free time to pursue it.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I think Blayne should go over to the other side. That is a whole forum set up to improve writing.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
But they're strangers...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
You might get a better response from strangers than what you got here.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Also the moderator hasn't approved my account yet. > Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Incorrect.
Many people think this. That does not make it so. It makes them people who are content to look like idiots -- regardless of the fact that they may well be quite intelligent.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I'm half joking
and my grammar gets a bit ee cummings at times
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Incorrect.
Many people think this. That does not make it so. It makes them people who are content to look like idiots -- regardless of the fact that they may well be quite intelligent.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Well good grammer isn't 'required' per se but it is an example of good courtesy to not make others brains explode reading my messages.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What is appropriate for poetry is not appropriate for speaking to someone. Cummings knew this.
And grammar, spelling, and usage all communicate something to other people. Either about your intelligence or your willingness to make your words understandable. As Blayne said, it's not nice to make people's brains explode. It's also not a good way to get them to respond in a positive fashion.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
But it's kind of fun to make people's brains e x p l o d e
But, yes, I do need to really seriously work on these novels. They've been in development for a DECADE but I am not sure if I am good enough to write them.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Never hurts to try.
I really need someone with a astrophysics major > Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I got an A two semesters ago in my astronomy class...that good enough?
Syn -
Yeah, I know the feeling. I've never really come up with much that I'd want to do that's novel length, except for one idea, but I generally get about 30 pages in and then lose steam. And whenever I return to it, I'm afraid to do anything 'cause I'm afraid I'll just ruin it. Most of my stories seem better unfinished than they would if I plowed through and wrecked them. Eventually I'm just going to have to get over that and finish them, especially since writing what I've been writing no longer really appeals to me.
Two semesters of post-colonial "commonwealth" literature in modernist and post-modernist forms has really messed up what I used to think of as my own personal genre (which used to be either fantasy, or fiction with fantasy flavoring). I still want to finish what I have started, even if I don't really formulate new ideas with those themes anymore, but I also have new things I want to try.
Sadly, I'll probably get a history book published long before I get any of my fiction published (well, that's never going to happen, so I guess it's not a hard target to hit). Actually I guess that's not sad, I'd love to get a history book published.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I got an A two semesters ago in my astronomy class...that good enough?
Syn -
Yeah, I know the feeling. I've never really come up with much that I'd want to do that's novel length, except for one idea, but I generally get about 30 pages in and then lose steam. And whenever I return to it, I'm afraid to do anything 'cause I'm afraid I'll just ruin it. Most of my stories seem better unfinished than they would if I plowed through and wrecked them. Eventually I'm just going to have to get over that and finish them, especially since writing what I've been writing no longer really appeals to me.
Two semesters of post-colonial "commonwealth" literature in modernist and post-modernist forms has really messed up what I used to think of as my own personal genre (which used to be either fantasy, or fiction with fantasy flavoring). I still want to finish what I have started, even if I don't really formulate new ideas with those themes anymore, but I also have new things I want to try.
Sadly, I'll probably get a history book published long before I get any of my fiction published (well, that's never going to happen, so I guess it's not a hard target to hit). Actually I guess that's not sad, I'd love to get a history book published.
at the very least you can help me out figuring out all of the necessary technical details of space travel. I can I can add you to msn by adding your AOL account, is that alright?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That's fine. I'm not sure how much help I'll actually be. I had to work pretty hard to get that A, and we didn't do a lot of work on theoretical physics. Actually we didn't do any work on theoretical physics, but I'm aware of some of the theories that scientists have on how near light speed travel would work, and on how intrastellar would best work as well.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
k uuh sent you a gmail message as well and an invitation to gchat.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Blayne, I can't help you at all as far as history is concerned, but I had an English class this quarter (writing and rhetoric) that drastically improved my fiction writing skills. One of the things that helped improve it was a book called On Writing, by Stephen King. It's a memoir of his experiences writing, and he gives some REALLY good tips as far as flow and general storytelling. Not much in way of grammar, because he assumes you've already had that, but at least for me, it was a new way of looking at writing. It may help you a bit.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Ill check it up in the university library tomorrow.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
"First, the way a person posts in general is actually an incredibly helpful indication of their ability with the written word."
Dang, that probably says something terrible about my writing, then.
It's always so... convoluted and overwritten.
I always need to pare things down way more than I do.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: What is appropriate for poetry is not appropriate for speaking to someone. cummings knew this.
Fixed that for you.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Blayne, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you about this. I emailed a friend of mine who grew up Jewish in the USSR, and he still hasn't gotten back to me.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd actually be curious to read whatever you get out of your search for information on Jews in the USSR Blayne. In particular, I'd love to read a first hand account of someone who grew up there.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:On making a preliminary tour through these letters, we found Jon preparing a French edition of his translations of Cummings' poetry, and on 27 February 1951 he wrote to the poet: "are you E.E.Cummings, ee cummings, or what?(so far as the title page is concerned)wd u like title page all in lowercase?"
The poet replied on 1 March 1951: "E.E.Cummings, unless your printer prefers E. E. Cummings/ titlepage up to you;but may it not be tricksy svp[.]"
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Blayne, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you about this. I emailed a friend of mine who grew up Jewish in the USSR, and he still hasn't gotten back to me.
Thank you Lisa and would appreciate any information when it comes along, I'll be visiting my Universities library sometime today to go on my book binge.
Thanks Rivka.
Lyrhawn I'll let you know what I find out and how it effects the plot on what I find out.
Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name? My knowledge of the Torah is sketchy.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Blayne, you could have interpreted the string of periods as a helpful bump. That's what I figured it might be at first.
It's generally impolite to respond to a request for a specific sort of help by telling someone they are barking up the wrong tree and need to focus on something else. However, this does not automatically make it unhelpful. It depends on whether the person responding has enough insight to helpfully redirect the requestor's focus. It can be presumptuous but not always wrong.
For my part I think my suggestion is this: make yourself an expert by reading literature (sounds like you're planning to do this which is good). Then, when you know enough to ask specific questions and ask for feedback on specific ideas you want to work into a story, ask.
As for the writing advice, I think it would be good for you to make a concerted effort to improve your writing. In particular this alarms me:
quote:Especially since y'know, such things usually get proof readers and editors to straiten out the kinks.
You simply will never get the help of professional proof readers and editors unless you first, by yourself, eliminate 99% of what they might be able to do for you. It would be a really bad investment of resources for a publisher to collaborate with you on improving your writing instead of polishing up a few rough spots.
You can definitely write whatever you want to, but your online persona that we are all familiar with is quite well established, and so I think it's inevitable that this kind of request is going to result in some meta-feedback about what you really ought to do. It's not all going to be mean spirited...I think you attract responses from a lot of people with genuine interest in seeing you find the smoothest possible path to success, and we can't help but interject our own ideas about what we think that success ought to look like.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name?
Exceedingly unlikely.
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
That't right. The only Ishmael I know is from Moby Dick and he was a lowly crew member. If he had been Jewish he would have owned the ship.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
רבי ישמעאל אומר
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name?
Exceedingly unlikely.
Why?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Samprimary: [qb] But I like putting them on top better...
I know your comment was half joking, but I hope you recognize how counterproductive that attitude is if you are serious about become a good writer.
The first step to becoming a good writer is recognizing that it isn't about what you like. As a writer, it is your responsibility to communicate with your reader. Its not like a conversation where the social relationships create an obligation on the part of both the speaker and the listener. The reader does not have any ethical obligation to try to understand you or even to read you at all. You have to make the the reader want to read your writing and if your writing style is difficult to follow -- fewer people will want to read.
Of course no writer will be understandable to everyone. You need to pick a target audience. The kind of writing that is likely to be both interesting and understandable to English professors, is quite different to what is likely to be both interesting and understandable to the average high school student. You might get lucky and write something that will randomly hit some niche, but you are much more likely to succeed if you know what that niche is in advance and work hard to target that niche.
Good writing is about connecting with the audience and not simply doing what you like.
[ December 04, 2009, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name?
Exceedingly unlikely.
Why?
To clarify, the reasons why it might not be likely could very well be the reason why the character is named such.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
רבי ישמעאל אומר Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I just took out several books for working on my scifi story
"The Soviet Military Experience 1945-1991"
Years off my life: Memiors of a General of the Soviet Army
My Just War: The Memoir of a Jewish Soviet SoldierHells Yeah!!!! This work is perfect!
Inside the Soviet Army by Viktor Suvorov
Soviet Military Doctrine
A Writer at War: story of a Soviet journalist during WWII
Red Army and Society 'the sociology of the soviet military'
Liddel Hart's The Red Army
A Centuary of Ambivelance: History of Soviet Jewry
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You should probably read The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name?
Exceedingly unlikely.
Why?
To clarify, the reasons why it might not be likely could very well be the reason why the character is named such.
Rivka if I could get a response on this I would appreciate it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Samprimary: [qb] But I like putting them on top better...
Good writing is about connecting with the audience and not simply doing what you like.
I don't know... sometimes the best art comes from a person doing what they like and what they are passionate about... Dir en grey comes to mind. (some of their "fans" complain so much about how they have evolved, but i think they are brilliant) Someone should do a bit of both, because I'd be lying to myself if i didn't write something i'm passionate about.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Syn, I think Rabbit is just approaching the nature of art from the perspective of an observer rather than a creator- she is a scientist after all. I like to think that as a music theorist I get to play both sides of the field on this subject. I think that while the artist can be aware to a greater or lesser degree of the medium's potential for communication, the existence of that potential will shape the work of art, if it is done with skill, into an artifact comprehensible to any observer.
I think art done in a vacuum, with total lack of external consciousness, would be so devoid of outward influence that it wouldn't even appear to be art. Why mimic or listen to other communicators if one does not intend to also communicate? For instance, if a person writes a journal in which they truly wish only to communicate with themselves, then nothing stands in the way of simply scratching the paper with a pencil in a way pleasing to the writer. Nothing stops the writer from simply thinking quietly to herself without writing anything at all. Art is defined by purpose, and the purpose of art is expression through a medium of communication. The only thing, I think, that humans do not do with any trace of artistry is think. Everything else bears traces of communication and sharing of one's self through some cultural or biological lense.
That said, this comes from a person who cannot imagine committing his own creative energy to something that he would never intend to share. I end up withholding the larger part of what I create, but my intention is never to create art for myself- I consider my aesthetics to be appeals to the sensibilities of others, rather than perfect representations of my aesthetics. A perfect representation of my own aesthetics only goes on in my own head.
Then of course you can't escape that some writers who develop fan-hate communities are doing exactly the opposite of simply ignoring their fans. Their transformations can feed off of that enmity as well- I remember specifically latching onto a specific aesthetic choice several years ago specifically because a self-described "serious" composer had scoffed at it. He is a friend of mine, but I didn't want him as a fan of my music- I felt that I didn't want to be owned by his tastes. So there's another possible explanation of an artist's real intentions.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
edited, because I didn't realize 3 other people had already addressed this point.
[ December 05, 2009, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Btw, anyone know if Ishmael could be Jewish name?
Exceedingly unlikely.
Why?
To clarify, the reasons why it might not be likely could very well be the reason why the character is named such.
Rivka if I could get a response on this I would appreciate it.
I tend to doubt you'll get one on a Saturday. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
*Smacks own forehead*
Gargh, how could I forget!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Exactly why I said "unlikely" instead of simply "no".
Blayne, Yishmael was the son of Avraham (Abraham) whose lineage did not become the Jewish nation. It would be almost as unlikely as calling a Jewish child Esav (Esau). Although Dobie pointed out one famous example, it's far from recent (try ~2000 years old) and I cannot think of ANY recent (within 500 years) examples.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Okay this actually fits with how I am picturing the story thus far, basically someone who was Observant probably wouldn't name their child Yishmael, but say it was a Soviet bureaucrat who didn't really care would just flip through the Torah find it as being related to Isaac, think its a common Jewish and give the child the name. This I think would be consistent with how I am currently picturing the backstory for the protagonist.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
My parents grew up in Russia and, although they weren't observant, because they were Jewish underwent a lot of persecution and suffering.
That they overcame it, and found peace in America is one of the most meaningful stories in my life, and inspires me greatly.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Blayne, why would a Soviet bureaucrat name their child something biblical at all?!
I don't buy it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Blayne, why would a Soviet bureaucrat name their child something biblical at all?!
I don't buy it.
It's complicated, a Soviet Bureaucrat isn't naming HIS child but naming an orphan child who had no name but identified as being Jewish. There is a deeper reason but its plot important.
The way it would be explained to the character later in his life is this: His mother was a resident of a closed city who was a technician but no apparent father but due to unfortunate complications died in child birth but the child survived born 2038, the bureaucrat assigned to his case checked the residence permit identified her ethnicity as Soviet Jewish (or the equivalent) and named the child a Jewish sounding name off the top of his head. From there he was assigned to an orphanage until an aptitude test at the age of 7 determined he is qualified to enter into Soviet Military Youth Officer Training Center (think of it as the Soviet equivalent of Battle school) where he is later recruited into the KGB.
And then in 2059 the novel begins, with Ishmael at 21 years old. Of course that is the cover story as told to him, there's a deeper reason but for now the above is consistent for that State officials would tell him is in the reports.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Just because he's Jewish doesn't mean they'd give him a bilibical name. To the contrary, most of the Russian Jews I know are named Anatoly or the like.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Just because he's Jewish doesn't mean they'd give him a bilibical name. To the contrary, most of the Russian Jews I know are named Anatoly or the like.
OT, But I love Russian names. Especially Dmitri which is what I shall name my first son.
Also, I am putting the quotes on the bottom. See?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Just because he's Jewish doesn't mean they'd give him a bilibical name. To the contrary, most of the Russian Jews I know are named Anatoly or the like.
OT, But I love Russian names. Especially Dmitri which is what I shall name my first son.
Also, I am putting the quotes on the bottom. See?
No you're not. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Just because he's Jewish doesn't mean they'd give him a biblical name. To the contrary, most of the Russian Jews I know are named Anatoly or the like.
There IS a deeper reason why they would choose it, but can't really say because it is kinda plot important.
But my impression is that Russian Jews could have biblical first names and Russian last names, like Isaac Asimov.
The idea is that his name is meant to be somewhat unique, there's two reasons why hes named Ishmael, 1) because of the cover story outlined above and 2) for a plot significant reason that does make sense but is still somewhat from the perspective of the character who named him but kinda still somewhat whimsical although there is a to my mind a good reason. But kinda don't want to share it to keep the surprise a well, surprise should I finish it and you read it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I get that you want to use the name and nothing I can say will change that. But it's odd that you bring up Asimov, whose parents were distinctly and deliberately Jewish -- they spoke Yiddish. Very different than your character's situation.
Your name choice does not make sense in the context you have given. *shrug* Why ask for an answer you plan to ignore?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Just because he's Jewish doesn't mean they'd give him a bilibical name. To the contrary, most of the Russian Jews I know are named Anatoly or the like.
OT, But I love Russian names. Especially Dmitri which is what I shall name my first son.
Also, I am putting the quotes on the bottom. See?
No you're not.
Well,on top I meant. But on topic, sort of, I want to at least try to complete a full first draft of a novel I want to write. I've been working on this thing for a decade now, developing it, the characters, struggling.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I get that you want to use the name and nothing I can say will change that. But it's odd that you bring up Asimov, whose parents were distinctly and deliberately Jewish -- they spoke Yiddish. Very different than your character's situation.
Your name choice does not make sense in the context you have given. *shrug* Why ask for an answer you plan to ignore?
I kinda think your being a tad bit unfair, I am trying to come up with something plausible not ignoring your advice, and as a result came up with a story that to me sounds plausible. Sure it may not be likely but is it plausible? What situations would need to occur to make it more likely or plausible in your view? The best I can say is that Ishmael is kinda needed as a name for the symbolism of the Isaac-Ishmael duality but I don't think I should say much more then that.
Would it help if I establish if the bureaucrat under question is simply misinformed and thinks all Jewish names are biblical names? Or would making the bureaucrat Jewish himself be more plausible? Remember this is just for the cover story, the real reason is something of a state secret.
Although this does give me an idea, the character could find out that something is odd with the official reports of his birth simply because being named a biblical name doesn't make sense? Does that help?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You are trying to make your choice work despite my answer, which is a different thing.
Again, no it is not plausible. Anyone who cared enough to pick a Jewish name would not pick Ishmael. And someone who didn't care enough to know that would just pick Anatoly or Dmitri.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Now suddenly I want a list of Jewish and Russian names.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Unless the person being a bureaucrat is expected to pick a name he thinks is Jewish due to regulations, which I know assuming the Soviet Union still has a policy of Russificiation in this future wouldn't make sense but in my timeline a fictional character who is Jewish becomes Premier/General Secretary instead of Khrushchev, his name is Isaac Pavelivich Rozhdestvenski my settings equivilent of Peter Wiggin in terms of ambition and genius (hint, both characters are linked), as time goes on Russian chauvinism is toned down for policies that are more likely to maintain the loyalty of the different republics.
But I think I settled on a solution that takes your advice into account with my plot critical reason that I can't really state beyond that the characters in question are linked and this is important for the story.
Basically the cover story as I stated which as you said doesn't (or shouldn't?) make sense is a story that the authorities tell Ismael when hes young, but when he's older and starts discovering his belief in Judaism along with other clues going on at the same time questions the cover story as inconsistent which leads him to the next part of the story and uncovers a conspiracy, which him at its center.
Drama, politics, war, intrigue, trying to get a story that blends them all together.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Now suddenly I want a list of Jewish and Russian names.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Unless the person being a bureaucrat is expected to pick a name he thinks is Jewish due to regulations, which I know assuming the Soviet Union still has a policy of Russificiation in this future wouldn't make sense but in my timeline a fictional character who is Jewish becomes Premier/General Secretary instead of Khrushchev, his name is Isaac Pavelivich Rozhdestvenski my settings equivilent of Peter Wiggin in terms of ambition and genius (hint, both characters are linked), as time goes on Russian chauvinism is toned down for policies that are more likely to maintain the loyalty of the different republics.
First of all, that should never have been one sentence. Second of all, in writing a good rule of thumb is that if a long and slightly defensive explanation of any particular small detail of the story is needed to explain that detail, one should either explain it within the text, or drop it. If you ever write a book, and if anyone ever reads it, this particular detail will be lost. Trust me- even your explanation is trying of my patience.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Now suddenly I want a list of Jewish and Russian names.
You will need more than this resource to correctly decline Russian names properly, should you have the desire to do so. In Czech I respond to no less than twelve possible monikers.
Also, this in no way constitutes a list of names.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its explaining within the text would be explained when it is pertinent to explain it. For either the sake of the reader or the character, for example being an story of alternative history each detail would be explained separately. Such as when there was a different Premier then historical it would be explained easily and early by seeing statues and other evidence of a remaining cult of personality and the character in question remarking or casually mentioning it.
It only seems a long and defencive argument because I am still formulating it and been going back and forth over several posts discussing it and only with half the details available the rest I wish to keep a surprise. In the course of the novel the revealing of pertinent information would be much more organic and better explained as you would be in the perspective of the character and be in a better position to examine it.
Here it is just preliminary concept trying to work out the kinks.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Now suddenly I want a list of Jewish and Russian names.
You will need more than this resource to correctly decline Russian names properly, should you have the desire to do so. In Czech I respond to no less than twelve possible monikers.
Also, this in no way constitutes a list of names.
I see you didn't see the list of sources I posted earlier, also this I should note is counter to the advice already given, write the story first and don't get caught up in the research.
For coming up with Russian names and monikers the above list I would think for a cast of 12 regular characters and 30 recurring ones and 40 additional one off ones the list would be sufficient to come up with most of them.
But nevertheless I plan for many major characters to have last names derived from Siberian towns.
FirstName + Patronymic + SiberianDerivedlastName
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:The first step to becoming a good writer is recognizing that it isn't about what you like.
In my opinion, the first step to becoming a good writer is to write something.
But I think there's probably lots of different ways to get there.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: In the course of the novel the revealing of pertinent information would be much more organic and better explained as you would be in the perspective of the character and be in a better position to examine it.
I don't believe you. I'm not being nasty, you understand, but I don't believe this is true. Given as I've read thousands, literally thousands of things you've written over the years, I consider myself, among several others on this forum, an expert on your writing (as much as anyone can be such). And I tell you that I consider the likelihood of this statement being true is, well, small.
I state this only to encourage you not to write with this intention. Be pedantic, be precise, over-explain everything. Then, when you're done, look at all the stuff you have to over-explain, and go back and just cut it out- you will be cutting out the 1337-geek factor you have inserted into your writing because for some deep-seated reason, you believe it has to be there. This, by the way, is why I don't write novels. So I think I speak from some experience.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Blayne, that might be a good addition to the other books I suggested to you on sake.
Thanks for the head's up rivka. It's on my shopping list!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: In the course of the novel the revealing of pertinent information would be much more organic and better explained as you would be in the perspective of the character and be in a better position to examine it.
I don't believe you. I'm not being nasty, you understand, but I don't believe this is true. Given as I've read thousands, literally thousands of things you've written over the years, I consider myself, among several others on this forum, an expert on your writing (as much as anyone can be such). And I tell you that I consider the likelihood of this statement being true is, well, small.
I state this only to encourage you not to write with this intention. Be pedantic, be precise, over-explain everything. Then, when you're done, look at all the stuff you have to over-explain, and go back and just cut it out- you will be cutting out the 1337-geek factor you have inserted into your writing because for some deep-seated reason, you believe it has to be there. This, by the way, is why I don't write novels. So I think I speak from some experience.
What is this leet geek factor you speak of that would somehow be pertinent? Sure I want characters to make cracks about cult scifi as a means of showing how their culture has changed over the years as a means of lampshade hanging but I'm not sure what you mean otherwise.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
BTW, good luck with this. It takes some guts to spill your ideas out for everyone to see; I hope that you take the cynicism and sarcasm you've been given with a grain of salt. There's some good advice here; strip the attitudes, and just apply the lessons.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: BTW, good luck with this. It takes some guts to spill your ideas out for everyone to see; I hope that you take the cynicism and sarcasm you've been given with a grain of salt. There's some good advice here; strip the attitudes, and just apply the lessons.
Trial by fire, trial by fire.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: What is this leet geek factor you speak of that would somehow be pertinent? Sure I want characters to make cracks about cult scifi as a means of showing how their culture has changed over the years as a means of lampshade hanging but I'm not sure what you mean otherwise.
Yeah, don't hang lampshades. Don't derive surnames from Surbian towns. Don't make cult scifi references, especially as 'means of showing' anything. You don't understand Russian culture that well. I say this from the point of view of someone who should by all rights understand Russian culture a lot better than you do, and who doesn't believe he understands it very well at all.
I just think, knowing you, and knowing everything I've read about this so far, that this is going to be a laundry list of "wouldn't it be cool" Blayne moments. Which is great, sitting around with friends, or whatever. If you put it all in an novel, you're going to be disappointed when people hate it.
As I've long thought, honestly, the best thing for you Blayne is to move to China or Russia for a couple of years and just learn to drop practically everything you think you understand about foreign cultures. Otherwise, everything you say about them is always going to come out like a geek-boy comic book fantasy.
It's that or write geek-boy comic books.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Thanks but no thanks. This is I think what we'ld call nonconstructive criticism "I claim to know better then you so don't bother".
Seriously.
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Now suddenly I want a list of Jewish and Russian names.
Now that you've found out about tvtropes.org try not to go overboard.
This advice is somewhat on par with warning Reagan that he is going to be shot, or that Sega risks losing it's place in the video game console market.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Thanks but no thanks. This is I think what we'ld call nonconstructive criticism "I claim to know better then you so don't bother".
Seriously.
Yeah, Blayne. I think you shouldn't write a novel. I think you should get a girlfriend and a real social life, actual "Real world" experience, as in that which exists outside your apartment, get friends who don't treat you like shit, and stop living in a fantasy world revolving around the idea that you're an untapped genius, and maybe, just maybe, then you will actually think well enough of yourself to act in your own best interest, rather than the constant willful self-destructing that you share with here because you know that the people here will give you ten more good reasons why you shouldn't do stupid things that you will decide to do anyway, and you can make it that much bigger of a F*** YOU to the world outside your own skull. Years and years of this Blayne. Years and years of experience with you tell me exactly how your novel is going to turn out. And you know it, and everybody here knows it, and will try anyway. And that's sad, for everyone involved.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What? He can write a novel if he wants to. Then he can put it aside, do all the stuff you said and go back and rewrite and rewrite and polish it.
And I need to do a first draft.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Thanks but no thanks. This is I think what we'ld call nonconstructive criticism "I claim to know better then you so don't bother".
Seriously.
Yeah, Blayne. I think you shouldn't write a novel. I think you should get a girlfriend and a real social life, actual "Real world" experience, as in that which exists outside your apartment, get friends who don't treat you like shit, and stop living in a fantasy world revolving around the idea that you're an untapped genius, and maybe, just maybe, then you will actually think well enough of yourself to act in your own best interest, rather than the constant willful self-destructing that you share with here because you know that the people here will give you ten more good reasons why you shouldn't do stupid things that you will decide to do anyway, and you can make it that much bigger of a F*** YOU to the world outside your own skull. Years and years of this Blayne. Years and years of experience with you tell me exactly how your novel is going to turn out. And you know it, and everybody here knows it, and will try anyway. And that's sad, for everyone involved.
You don't frequent Sakeriver right? Right, so you wouldn't know then that I I've been recently diagnosed with PDD-NOS, I'm incapable of having a normal social life.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
[/qb][/QUOTE]You don't frequent Sakeriver right? Right, so you wouldn't know then that I I've been recently diagnosed with PDD-NOS, I'm incapable of having a normal social life. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Really? I suspect I might have Asperger's, but I have no way of knowing as I haven't been diagnosed. I do have social anxiety disorder though, which makes sense, as people are incredibly scary.
I sort of hate being social... for the most part.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its the hermit crabs, they don't want you to leave.... so they're secretly controlling your mind.... Making you stay and do weird things like singing off key karoke.... *shudder*
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: You don't frequent Sakeriver right? Right, so you wouldn't know then that I I've been recently diagnosed with PDD-NOS, I'm incapable of having a normal social life.
I would speak ill of your doctor for giving you the impression that a developmental disorder can now be used as ammunition against suggestions of pursuing a normal social life, but I suspect you cooked that up on your own.
Tell me, did you get diagnosed for the express purpose of finding a reason to not alter the pattern of your life? Fine that you know, but not fine that your first response to me was to run back behind the big bad PDD label. It's a label, but in telling you anything about what the course of your life is supposed to be, it's not useful. And after all that, no publisher is going to accept a manuscript of yours with a note from your doctor explaining your condition- people will just laugh at you in a way far crueler than anything I've said.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Its the hermit crabs, they don't want you to leave.... so they're secretly controlling your mind.... Making you stay and do weird things like singing off key karoke.... *shudder*
Heh. Though I do sing in key quite well I think. I wonder what a normal social life IS. Most of the time I hate hanging out in groups unless it's a Dir en grey concert or it's people I know very well. Plus I hate drinking too much and so much socializing involves drinking. Though I would like a boyfriend...I think.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: You don't frequent Sakeriver right? Right, so you wouldn't know then that I I've been recently diagnosed with PDD-NOS, I'm incapable of having a normal social life.
I would speak ill of your doctor for giving you the impression that a developmental disorder can now be used as ammunition against suggestions of pursuing a normal social life, but I suspect you cooked that up on your own.
Tell me, did you get diagnosed for the express purpose of finding a reason to not alter the pattern of your life? Fine that you know, but not fine that your first response to me was to run back behind the big bad PDD label. It's a label, but in telling you anything about what the course of your life is supposed to be, it's not useful. And after all that, no publisher is going to accept a manuscript of yours with a note from your doctor explaining your condition- people will just laugh at you in a way far crueler than anything I've said.
And your jumping to conclusions to beat on me.
"And you know it, and everybody here knows it, and will try anyway. And that's sad, for everyone involved."
I think given enough time, research, and effort I can write something interesting to read and readable, your pessimism is not amusing. Also you and maybe 1 other person are the only people so far with this level of pessimism, other have given advice to improve the chance of success.
YOU just settled on "give up, you won't amount to anything".
If Tom Clancy can write a best seller without visiting China, then so can I, at least I'll be researching it.
Like what the **** is a "would be cool blayne moment" like wtf, can you come up with one and how I would somehow fit it in a book!?!
THIS "I state this only to encourage you not to write with this intention. Be pedantic, be precise, over-explain everything. Then, when you're done, look at all the stuff you have to over-explain, and go back and just cut it out- you will be cutting out the 1337-geek factor you have inserted into your writing because for some deep-seated reason, you believe it has to be there. This, by the way, is why I don't write novels. So I think I speak from some experience. "
Was sooooooorta okay advice but only relative to your other horrible worst examples of advice ever, "be overly precise and explain everything" (otherwise assume viewers are morons essentially) could sorta be construed as advice but after that its just shit.
Scott R doesn't seem to think this is a doomed endeavor, and I did take out like 8 different books for research, so I am putting the effort into this. Your being horrendously unfair.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Blayne, to be fair, it's difficult to judge how fair they're being until you have written something.
I wish you luck. But you are doing the equivalent of asking the forum how to break into the gourmet catering segment and how to boil water -- in the same post.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Whats a segment in this context?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Tom, I don't really think that's a fair analogy. He's stating his intention to write a novel, but I don't think that's the equivalent to asking how to break into the gourmet catering segment.
I'd say he's... asking people for advice on how to make soup, and people are pointing out that just last week he was asking how to boil water.
Or something. I like needlessly complex analogies though.
That said, good luck, Blayne. Lots of people here have offered you some good advice. Try to disregard those that haven't.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Blayne, I will say this.
You are an idea man, and I like that about you. Your execution needs work, but no better way to learn that than experience. Good luck.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Synthesia, how old are you again?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Syn, I think Rabbit is just approaching the nature of art from the perspective of an observer rather than a creator- she is a scientist after all.
Actually, I was approaching this as a writer and a person who has been heavily involved in teaching technical writing. Writing is a very significant fraction of the work of being a scientist. While I recognize the many significant differences between expository writing and creative writing, I would still argue that the similarities are greater than the differences, particularly when it comes to the actual mechanics of communication.
I also think that creative writing differs from music and the visual arts in several very significant ways.
1. With the possible exception of poetry, communication through the written word is far less abstract than communication through music or visual arts.
2. The effort required by the audience is significantly higher for writing than it is for music or visual arts. I'm not saying one can't put in an enormous effort studying a great piece of music or painting, you certainly can -- but it isn't required. Furthermore, I'm unlikely to put any effort into studying a piece of music without first having heard and enjoyed the piece of music.
3. There is a much wider range in peoples reading ability than in the hearing and seeing ability. Imagine how different composing would be if children couldn't hear any note below middle C and a significant fraction of the population couldn't hear the difference between notes that were closer together than a third.
Synesthesia, I think you misunderstood my original point. I'm not suggesting that a writer or any artist needs to pander to what is popular. I'm talking about the ethics of communication. If you are a writer (or a musician or a painter) no one (except perhaps your mother) has any ethical obligation to read your books (listen to your music, look at your paintings). No one has any obligation to understand what you are trying to say. If people can't understand your writing or don't enjoy your writing, its your fault. You have to recognize that and work work with it. If you want people to understand and enjoy your writing, its your responsibility to make that happen -- not the readers responsibility to figure out what you meant.
If you don't care whether anyone understands or enjoys your writing, fine. Write things the way you like them. But if your goal is to reach an audience, then you need to try to see your work from the audience perspective and make it accessible to your audience. Very often, that requires put aside your ego and listening to the critiques. Listening to the critiques is not the same a pandering to them. Listening to the critiques means stepping outside your role as the author and trying to see your work the way the audience sees it. Its the musical equivalent of walking to the back of the concert hall to see how things sound rather than merely adjusting things so they sound good on stage.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote: If people can't understand your writing or don't enjoy your writing, its your fault.
I wouldn't go quite that far. But otherwise, yep.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:You don't frequent Sakeriver right? Right, so you wouldn't know then that I I've been recently diagnosed with PDD-NOS, I'm incapable of having a normal social life.
If your therapist told you that you are incapable of having a normal social life because he diagnosed you with PDD-NOS, I would strongly recommend seeing a different therapist.
PDD-NOS is diagnosed primarily in childhood and even then is sort of a cath-all for things that don't fit elsewhere (which is why the NOS means Not Otherwise Specified). As I understand it, it may be inferred in adulthood, but this is less a full diagnosis and more and indication that this may be the case.
Regardless, the therapist's job would not be to slap a label on you and say "You can't have a normal social life." but instead to work with you, using the potential PDD-NOS as a guide for where your impairments might be, so that you can develop as normal a social life as possible.
PDD-NOS is often a mild condition and the social impairments that it introduces can, in many cases, be managed or even overcome.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Blayne, something occurred to me as I was reading the Ishmael part of the discussion that I think might be helpful to you. The reason for getting good,true information when writing fiction is not to be technically correct. The reason for having good information is so that out-of-place things don't interfere with the reader being pulled into the story. It doesn't matter whether or not you can justify something; what matters is some little tidbit strikes the reader as enough "off" the he starts wondering about it instead of your story.
An example: I was watching Highlander-Endgame on TV (a perfect minefield of historical inaccuracies*) thousands of anachronism pass by without causing a ripple but in one segment that was supposed to take place in 1712, they make a reference to the King. There wasn't a king of Great Britain in 1712; there was a queen. Now they could justify it any number of ways - maybe they meant some pretender or the queen's consort or that the Irish brigand wouldn't know anyway - but it didn't matter as I was already out of the story and googling british monarchs.
*Like a 16th century Scot would be named "Heather". Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Synthesia, how old are you again?
31... Why?
You make good Points The Rabbit. I just hope I can at least turn this chaotic stuff I have into something good. It's stressing me out. Especially since there's so many popular books that I just can't stand because they are so... BAD. Urg.
(Even a certain book that many folks here liked was terrible in my opinion. I tried to read a bit of it today at the library and I had to put it down in frustration. Why did he do such a thing to such a decent series? )
What if the book I want to write is not their cup of tea? I'm not sure if I'd want my mother to read this as she'd lecture me and quote the bible at me and I hate that.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
One writer whose blog I read talked about how in her fantasy world, she wanted to put a character in a cast. She researched it and looked at when and where the cast versus splint had been used historically. Historically, there were societies at the same level as her fantasy world that used casts. So, she included it. Everyone in her workshop group came back with the cast as throwing them out of the story. She was right and she showed the research, but she had to make a decision- did she want her readers stopping at that moment to wonder about the realism of casts? Because it didn't matter that she was right and that the readers google trips would show them that she was right and teach them more about that history. What mattered was that they were googling and not reading her story. Using a splint would not rip people out of the story- even people who know that casts were a historical possibility. Sometimes, being right is not worth the cost.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote: If people can't understand your writing or don't enjoy your writing, its your fault.
I wouldn't go quite that far. But otherwise, yep.
How far would you go?
I recognize that no writer will be understandable to everyone. The reader has to bring some tools to the table, but that's why I talked about a target audience in my first post. If some one is illiterate, they aren't going to understand your writing no matter what but then if your target audience is illiterate people you shouldn't be attempting written communication in the first place.
I'd also add that there is a significant difference between interactive written communication, like we do on this forum, where there are message being sent in both directions and non-interactive written communication, like a novel or an essay, where messages are being moving in only one direction.
Its the difference between a conversation and a speech. In a conversation, both the speaker and the listener have a responsibility toward clear communication. In a speech, (barring external motivating factors) the responsibility rests much more exclusively on the speaker.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: 3. There is a much wider range in peoples reading ability than in the hearing and seeing ability. Imagine how different composing would be if children couldn't hear any note below middle C and a significant fraction of the population couldn't hear the difference between notes that were closer together than a third.
Well, you're overstating your case on this point. What you have to consider is that the fact that children can *hear* the different pitches is no indication that they are understood. Children can also hear speech, but it takes time to understand it.
In fact if anything I might even argue that music is even more difficult to acquire than speech- given that we find in many modern cultures, where passive musical exposure is the only form of training children and many adults get, children find it impossible to replicate pitches, understand pitch value differences, or reproduce rhythms.
But I suppose the problem is that speech's utility and importance in all modern cultures is much more highly valued. I am not going to convince you that the ability to do these things is analogous to the ability to speak- you'll more likely argue that simply hearing music or detecting more general stylistic differences is sufficient.
The thing is, by the time a person is an adult, they have been exposed to a huge range of music- its so pervasive in our culture that despite the fact that so many people neglect actual training or participation in it, virtually everyone is something of an expert on music consumption. So I think we have this weird state where we know the genres of music that are widely practiced *really* well, but we don't develop the analytical tools to deal with that knowledge.
That being said, there *is* a wide range in listening ability. True experts, I believe, and I have had the phenomenon demonstrated to me, *hear more* than you or I do. Even I have had experiences of being able to hear things through training that were undetectable to others- such as persistent ambient noise frequencies and the timbers of various wind and string instruments in recordings, or even things like compression levels in studio recordings. In fact at one point, scarily enough, I could tell within two years when a particular CD was made by the compression techniques. That was *weird*. But I think just because people have this passive skill and experience with music, we tend to credit it as being easier than reading or other analytical tasks. But having studied both English and music, I found that the difficulty and training required to glean the same level of information from either writing or listening to music is comparable. Music is not more simple or more simply understood- it is only more universally understood at a basic level. Difficult to argue, granted, but that's my belief.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
A fundamentalist Christian did not like Harry Potter; that fact is not JK Rowling's "fault."
Nor is it really the fundie's "fault."
I think your terminology is wiggety-whack, Rabbit. But I think I agree with what seems to be your overall point.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:What if the book I want to write is not their cup of tea? I'm not sure if I'd want my mother to read this as she'd lecture me and quote the bible at me and I hate that.
This is what I meant by identifying your target audience. No book will appeal to everyone but presumably you want your book to appeal to someone. If you don't care whether or not anyone reads, enjoys and understands your story, write it the way you like. Nothing else matters. But if you want to connect with readers, you need to try to see things from the readers perspective.
Scholarette's example makes the point fairly well. If the target audience for the book was medical history experts, then the author should keep the cast. But if the audience is a broader spectrum of fantasy readers, seeming realistic to the typical reader is far more important than the actual facts.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: A fundamentalist Christian did not like Harry Potter; that fact is not JK Rowling's "fault."
Nor is it really the fundie's "fault."
I think your terminology is wiggety-whack, Rabbit. But I think I agree with what seems to be your overall point.
Could you recommend some other terminology? Fault is a loaded word, but I have no idea what a better one might be. How about "responsibility".
Rowling is responsible for the content that the fundie didn't like. If Rowling were trying to appeal to fundies, that would be a failing and it would be her responsibility. Rowling doesn't have to write stories that appeal to fundies any more that fundies need to try enjoy Harry Potter. But if Rowling or any other writer wanted their writing to appeal to fundies, it would be their "fault" if the fundies didn't like the story.
If I want you to read and enjoy my writing, its my responsibility to make that happen. If you don't understand it or enjoy it, I've failed to achieve my objective. That failure is my fault. Its pointless for me to argue that you were wrong, that you should have read more carefully or had a larger vocabulary or better knowledge of quantum theory. If I want you to read and enjoy my writing, it's my responsibility to make that happen not yours.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I don't know... the actual facts would be a lot more interesting to me, and I'm not a medical student. I want to be good at communicating to folks and getting my point across, but if I worry too much about what an audience will think while I'm writing, I'll never get this book done at all and I've already been struggling with that for the last decade. I'll worry about whether or not gay men will like Isamu or hate him, and it will get in the way of me making him... him. Because I'll be too worried about what folks will think. I think I should write the novel, develop it, get through the rough drafts and THEN worry about the audience because the first thing I'm conserned with is making this book GOOD. And folks will want to read it and relate to it if it's good.
I think it's a two way street. If I don't like heavy hard core metal (I do like it) then I won't like the harder stuff Dir en grey makes. If I don't like vocals like Kyo does (i do like them) then I won't like any of his singing, the crooning or the growling. It won't be their fault, no one's fault really, unless I had a change of heart... I used to HATE rock and roll when I was younger, but now I love the stuff. Whether a person likes art is chemical... or perhaps, for example, I am not OSC's intended audience and I have fallen off of that wagon and on to another.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: One writer whose blog I read talked about how in her fantasy world, she wanted to put a character in a cast. She researched it and looked at when and where the cast versus splint had been used historically. Historically, there were societies at the same level as her fantasy world that used casts. So, she included it. Everyone in her workshop group came back with the cast as throwing them out of the story. She was right and she showed the research, but she had to make a decision- did she want her readers stopping at that moment to wonder about the realism of casts? Because it didn't matter that she was right and that the readers google trips would show them that she was right and teach them more about that history. What mattered was that they were googling and not reading her story. Using a splint would not rip people out of the story- even people who know that casts were a historical possibility. Sometimes, being right is not worth the cost.
Reality is unrealistic Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:If I want you to read and enjoy my writing, its my responsibility to make that happen.
I think "responsibility" is also a loaded word, like "fault".
Let me try phrasing it differently. If I want you to read and enjoy my writing, I'm more likely to get what I want if I take into account what you're likely to enjoy reading. I'll be glad if I manage to write something that a lot of people will enjoy reading, and so it's a good idea to write with an audience in mind.
It doesn't have the same zing that way, I admit. Hmm.
"It's up to you to offer something that an audience will want to read."
Of course this pretty much goes without saying in the first place. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
A writer should know their audience; they should write in a way that their audience will understand.
That's about as far as I'm prepared to go. I'm hesitant to use words like fault and responsibility because they just seem very...authoritarian. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I think I should write the novel, develop it, get through the rough drafts and THEN worry about the audience because the first thing I'm conserned with is making this book GOOD. And folks will want to read it and relate to it if it's good.
You are kind of begging the question. What do you think makes a novel "GOOD"? In my opinion, a good novel is one that connects with the audience and if you don't consider the audience, that is unlikely to happen. You could get lucky and write something that other people will relate to even though you've never thought about them, I just don't think it's very likely.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:What do you think makes a novel "GOOD"?
I dunno, but I know it when I read it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It's all kinds of elements. A good plot that's engaging. Interesting characters. No dippiness factors, a writer wanting you to believe something that is utterly ridiculous. Good prose that flows off the page. Just enough humour to make the book extra enjoyable. A writer who is passionate about writing and doesn't just cater to the audience is a lot better. JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter series mostly for herself, and I got to admit it makes it very enjoyable the way it is. It's not perfect, but I just love reading it. (Unlike, say, Ender in Exile, which I did not like at all... man, I'm still so annoyed with that book... arg ><)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: A writer should know their audience; they should write in a way that their audience will understand.
That's about as far as I'm prepared to go. I'm hesitant to use words like fault and responsibility because they just seem very...authoritarian.
Perhaps I'm being to presumptuous, but I think the word you are looking for there is "judgemental" rather than "authoritarian".
My word choice in this is perhaps too influenced by discussions of the ethics of communication. I've spent to much time trying to teach students that writing a story or an essay is very different from a two way conversation. In a two way conversation, like the one we are having now, both the speaker and the listener should be working to avoid misunderstanding. But in a formal presentation, where the flow of information is in only one direction, the writer/speaker bares the full responsibility for clear communication. If your target audience doesn't get what your are trying to say, its your problem not theirs.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Hmmm. I do not know about that...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Nope. Authoritarian is the word I meant to use in this conversation.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Couldn't it be a mixture of both? Sometimes I'll read something and go, huh? How does that make sense? I must say that some ways of thinking are a bit alien to me.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I must say that some ways of thinking are a bit alien to me.
Hey, me too.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Nope. Authoritarian is the word I meant to use in this conversation.
OK, I think I understand you now. You were insulting me. Got it.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:What do you think makes a novel "GOOD"?
I dunno, but I know it when I read it.
Do you know when you write it? Or is "good" in the eye of the reader.
To take the audience into consideration does not necessarily mean pandering to the least common denominator. There is a spectrum between making art that only a mother could love that is just for you and mushed-up commercial pap. The latter is not very satisfying, but don't expect to get paid for the former.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Nope. Authoritarian is the word I meant to use in this conversation.
OK, I think I understand you now. You were insulting me. Got it.
I doubt that, Rabbit.
I wondered if he meant to make a pun on the word "author" there. But that might be reading too much into it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I just want to write something good that folks can relate to and that I can be proud of. Or something that expands horizons a bit. I definitely don't want to write something that a lot of people consider good and praise that I think is terrible. I'd be so unhappy with myself. I'm too perfectionist with my writing to get anything DONE. Outside my head.
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:What do you think makes a novel "GOOD"?
I dunno, but I know it when I read it.
Do you know when you write it? Or is "good" in the eye of the reader.
To take the audience into consideration does not necessarily mean pandering to the least common denominator. There is a spectrum between making art that only a mother could love that is just for you and mushed-up commercial pap. The latter is not very satisfying, but don't expect to get paid for the former.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
No, scifibum-- it was pointed pretty specifically at Rabbit.
:shrug:
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
*makes note [of something, not sure what]*
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
As a side note, the idea that was floated earlier, that a scientist is an observer when it comes to creative stuff, is just wrong. There is a total asymmetry here: A scientist who cannot communicate effectively is a bad scientist; an artist who cannot do science is just par for the course. Communicating clearly what was done, and why, is more important than the actual figuring-out of stuff, which often devolves into just plain debugging of computer programs which, honestly, any moderately computer-literate person can do. (Well... perhaps I exaggerate a bit.)
Posted by natural_mystic (Member # 11760) on :
Wow -- that discussion got testy in a hurry. I might have missed something as I skimmed, but I did not see that coming.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Synesthesia:
I don't even know why I asked that. It was late and I was tired. Sorry!
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by natural_mystic: Wow -- that discussion got testy in a hurry. I might have missed something as I skimmed, but I did not see that coming.
Not nearly as quickly as it would have had I not given Scott R the benefit of a doubt. There is a sort of irony in the fact that I was honestly trying to figure out where he was coming from, and he was just insulting me.
Its the sort of thing that has made hatrack a far less pleasant place to be.
At least he was honest about it this time and admitted that I had not in fact taken offense where none was intended.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: No, scifibum-- it was pointed pretty specifically at Rabbit.
:shrug:
I really don't know what I've done to make you feel justified in being nasty to me. It hurts and I wish you'd stop.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
What do you think went wrong here Captain? Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What do you think went wrong here Captain?
Nope. This problem isn't caused by failure to communicate or misunderstanding, just the opposite. It took a bit, but Scott has made his point pretty clear to his intended audience.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I am very confused...
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I am very confused...
QFT. Did I miss something?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I am very confused...
QFT. Did I miss something?
I'm sorry, but it appears you guys weren't Scott's target audience.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I am very confused...
QFT. Did I miss something?
I dunno. Scott R pointed that The Rabbit's words seemed very authoritarian. The Rabbit seems to be taking offence to that.
There may be some kind of code we're missing. (Or subtext, shared history, whatever)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:It's all kinds of elements. A good plot that's engaging. Interesting characters. No dippiness factors, a writer wanting you to believe something that is utterly ridiculous..
Synesthesia, Take a hard look at the list you've created. "Engaging, Interesting, believe". Everyone of them is about the reader, not the qualities of the text itself. How can you tell whether or not what you are writing will engage the reader unless you try to see your writing from the readers perspective?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:It's all kinds of elements. A good plot that's engaging. Interesting characters. No dippiness factors, a writer wanting you to believe something that is utterly ridiculous..
Synesthesia, Take a hard look at the list you've created. "Engaging, Interesting, believe". Everyone of them is about the reader, not the qualities of the text itself. How can you tell whether or not what you are writing will engage the reader unless you try to see your writing from the readers perspective?
But isn't that part of the quality of the text itself? Being interesting, engaging the reader, making them not feel all miserable like throwing the book across the room or sitting on the toilet reading passages in disgust going, HOW CAN THIS PILE OF STEAMING DOG CRAP HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED WHEN IT'S SO BAD ON EVERY LEVEL! AUGH! To me it's like give and take, or some sort of mushy relationship where you want things to be mutually enjoyable for the reader AND the writer. Neil Gaiman comes to mind. We would all have a wonderful time and feel very sated at the end of the book. It wouldn't be me on a soapbox just preaching and stuff... but just... I don't know. hoping people will like it and nto be miserable at the end of the ride.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by Tinros:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I am very confused...
QFT. Did I miss something?
I dunno. Scott R pointed that The Rabbit's words seemed very authoritarian. The Rabbit seems to be taking offence to that.
There may be some kind of code we're missing. (Or subtext, shared history, whatever)
Something like that. Scott actively dislikes me. I'm sure it's something from our shared history but I really have no idea what or when. I have a short memory for such things, but evidently Scott R does not.
His use of the word "authoritarian" was his way of saying that although he agreed with me, he thought I was speaking as though I was an authority on a subject where I was not. It was his way of saying I was being a pompous jerk.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Hum. Is it possible that it was actually a pun on 'author', as in "author-itarian"?
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Tried that.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: But isn't that part of the quality of the text itself? Being interesting, engaging the reader, making them not feel all miserable like throwing the book across the room or sitting on the toilet reading passages in disgust going, . . . .
Certainly, their are qualities of the text that make it engaging and interesting, but engaging and interesting are not themselves qualities of the text. They are reader responses to the text and not every reader will respond the same way to the text.
Consider the book you mentioned, "Ender in Exile". It being interesting and engaging were qualities of the text itself, then every reader would feel interested and engaged by the text. Some readers do but you find the same text disgusting. Its clearly about more than just the words written on the page, its about you the readers relation to those words. To write a book that will engage certain kinds of readers, you need to understand how specific qualities of the story and the prose will influence the reader. That understanding doesn't necessarily have to be a conscious level, but it has to be there.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Tried that.
Oops, missed it. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Hum. Is it possible that it was actually a pun on 'author', as in "author-itarian"?
It could have been, but Scott confirmed it was not.
Look, Scott wanted to insult me but didn't want any one but me to recognize that's what he was doing. His initial attempt failed so he had to keep giving me clues. I finally got it. He confirmed that I had in fact finally understood his point.
OK. End of story. No need to keep discussing it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: But isn't that part of the quality of the text itself? Being interesting, engaging the reader, making them not feel all miserable like throwing the book across the room or sitting on the toilet reading passages in disgust going, . . . .
Certainly, their are qualities of the text that make it engaging and interesting, but engaging and interesting are not themselves qualities of the text. They are reader responses to the text and not every reader will respond the same way to the text.
Consider the book you mentioned, "Ender in Exile". It being interesting and engaging were qualities of the text itself, then every reader would feel interested and engaged by the text. Some readers do but you find the same text disgusting. Its clearly about more than just the words written on the page, its about you the readers relation to those words. To write a book that will engage certain kinds of readers, you need to understand how specific qualities of the story and the prose will influence the reader. That understanding doesn't necessarily have to be a conscious level, but it has to be there.
Makes sense. Mostly I hated that book because instead of good prose, interesting characters, a decent plot there was all OF THIS POLITICAL NAGGING. Which is fine if you like them. Not so fine if you HATE being nagged in literature. I must try not to nag in literature. It's even annoying when liberals do it.
I don't think a person can please every reader. Even the classic writers can make modern people's eyes glaze over in boredom and make them long for short punchy sentences.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I honestly didn't notice the authortract, once or twice I cringed but otherwise it was a fine book, so I geuss your mileage may vary.
Posted by Flying Fish (Member # 12032) on :
Blayne, my two cent's worth:
Cent one: Have you considered writing a story first, like a ten page story, or a 3000 word story? Not that you have to write stories before you write a novel, but there are advantages to that approach.
Cent two: I get the impression from your posts that you might be the type of person to really get wrapped up in research, to the point of getting distracted from the writing. Research is great, and a wealth of detail is nice, but for some people it becomes the focus. I have a friend who has to build models, and stage mock battles, and write biographies, and fill sketchbooks.... Months and months of background, none of which gets into the stories, which often don't get written at all.... Just a note of caution.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm reading the books while EVE is heating up politics wise but will shift to rough writing mode (the kind done in Finding Forrester) soonish.
Also found this quote from the science fiction writing help site.
"Imagine a historical fiction novel where Napoleon at Waterloo defeated the knights of the Round Table by using the Enola Gay to drop an atom bomb. It's OK because it is "fiction", right? "
And my response is "THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!"
Posted by BackwardBlackbird (Member # 12224) on :
I can definitely tell when what I write is good, and when it's otherwise, but it's much easier to make decisions about other people's stuff because I know what I'm trying to say. When I write well, I sustain mood, tone, and descriptions. I use illustrative verbs, as well. But more importantly, when I write well I feel excited about what I'm doing. I feel I'm creating a world and inviting a reader into it; I'm communicating something unique and painting a picture of a dimensional character whose genuinely interesting and not contrived. I have to be engaged as much as the reader. I think that's what Synesthesia was trying to convey, that good writing has the writer feeling the way a reader does when he reads something good. Correct me if I'm wrong Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What do you think went wrong here Captain?
Nope. This problem isn't caused by failure to communicate or misunderstanding, just the opposite. It took a bit, but Scott has made his point pretty clear to his intended audience.
When one or both parties leaves the table with unkind feelings I think it is a failure in communication.
Not trying to pick on you, if I myself saw somebody leave a conversation they had just had with me angry but I only had the best of feelings, I would still say we failed in our efforts to communicate, or a failure to communicate.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by BackwardBlackbird: I can definitely tell when what I write is good, and when it's otherwise, but it's much easier to make decisions about other people's stuff because I know what I'm trying to say. When I write well, I sustain mood, tone, and descriptions. I use illustrative verbs, as well. But more importantly, when I write well I feel excited about what I'm doing. I feel I'm creating a world and inviting a reader into it; I'm communicating something unique and painting a picture of a dimensional character whose genuinely interesting and not contrived. I have to be engaged as much as the reader. I think that's what Synesthesia was trying to convey, that good writing has the writer feeling the way a reader does when he reads something good. Correct me if I'm wrong
Yeah! It makes a person feel alive and passionate, and I end up hoping a reader will feel that too because I feel it.
Though it's easier with piano I think.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What do you think went wrong here Captain?
Nope. This problem isn't caused by failure to communicate or misunderstanding, just the opposite. It took a bit, but Scott has made his point pretty clear to his intended audience.
When one or both parties leaves the table with unkind feelings I think it is a failure in communication.
Not trying to pick on you, if I myself saw somebody leave a conversation they had just had with me angry but I only had the best of feelings, I would still say we failed in our efforts to communicate, or a failure to communicate.
BB, You are talking about a situation where offense was taken although none was intended. I would agree such situation represent a failure in communication. But that isn't what happened here. When I final figured out he was trying to insult me, Scott confirmed that I understood his intent accurately.
So please quit implying I'm being overly sensitive and taking offense at something I shouldn't have. Scott confirmed that was his intent.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:Originally posted by BackwardBlackbird: I can definitely tell when what I write is good, and when it's otherwise, but it's much easier to make decisions about other people's stuff because I know what I'm trying to say. When I write well, I sustain mood, tone, and descriptions. I use illustrative verbs, as well. But more importantly, when I write well I feel excited about what I'm doing. I feel I'm creating a world and inviting a reader into it; I'm communicating something unique and painting a picture of a dimensional character whose genuinely interesting and not contrived. I have to be engaged as much as the reader. I think that's what Synesthesia was trying to convey, that good writing has the writer feeling the way a reader does when he reads something good. Correct me if I'm wrong
Yeah! It makes a person feel alive and passionate, and I end up hoping a reader will feel that too because I feel it.
Though it's easier with piano I think.
It is wonderful that you feel good when you write. If you are writing for your own enjoyment, that is enough. Why should a reader, though, care how you felt when you were writing?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... When I final figured out he was trying to insult me, Scott confirmed that I understood his intent accurately.
It seems to me that Scott R only confirmed that he called your words authoritarian rather than that you're a "pompous jerk" as you put it.
i.e. He confirmed what was said, not the interpreted jump described by you as "...his way of saying I was a pompous jerk."
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Mucus, He confirmed it was intended as an insult and directed at me. I think I understood him pretty clearly.
If Scott thinks there was a misunderstanding, I'm sure he will say so. He hasn't been hesitant to do so in the past.
The rest of you should stay out of it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If you want us to stay out of it, go do it somewhere else.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Seems to me that he didn't confirm that it was intended as an insult, merely that it was directed at you.
Just sayin'
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: If you want us to stay out of it, go do it somewhere else.
I've asked people to let the topic go a number of times. Please do.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:Originally posted by BackwardBlackbird: I can definitely tell when what I write is good, and when it's otherwise, but it's much easier to make decisions about other people's stuff because I know what I'm trying to say. When I write well, I sustain mood, tone, and descriptions. I use illustrative verbs, as well. But more importantly, when I write well I feel excited about what I'm doing. I feel I'm creating a world and inviting a reader into it; I'm communicating something unique and painting a picture of a dimensional character whose genuinely interesting and not contrived. I have to be engaged as much as the reader. I think that's what Synesthesia was trying to convey, that good writing has the writer feeling the way a reader does when he reads something good. Correct me if I'm wrong
Yeah! It makes a person feel alive and passionate, and I end up hoping a reader will feel that too because I feel it.
Though it's easier with piano I think.
It is wonderful that you feel good when you write. If you are writing for your own enjoyment, that is enough. Why should a reader, though, care how you felt when you were writing?
I don't know. I'd want a writer to be happy about their writing.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I would hope so too, but a writer being happy about their writing isn't enough to make me want to read it. Or buy it. Nor would a writer who was unhappy make me not want to read their writing if it spoke to me.
[ December 09, 2009, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Yup. I could live ten times longer than I expect and not be able to read everything I want.
If an author has fun writing, that's fine. Some people enjoy playing video games, which is also fine. But in neither case is that enough to make me want to read/watch it myself.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:If Scott thinks there was a misunderstanding, I'm sure he will say so. He hasn't been hesitant to do so in the past.
How would you know? I'm curious-- this isn't the first time you've insinuated a deeper-than-possible mental connection to others in this virtual space.
I'm not particularly inclined to apologize.
I *do* however, see evidence that my snarkiness got in the way of a conversation I care about, and that's something for which I feel rather stupid. I should have kept a lid on it.
___
quote:It is wonderful that you feel good when you write. If you are writing for your own enjoyment, that is enough. Why should a reader, though, care how you felt when you were writing?
The problem with having this sort of association-- "good feelings == good writing" is that in my experience, it's not always true. At least not for me. This sort of thinking tends to make me write less, and consequently write WORSE because I don't always feel good. And if I don't keep up a schedule, then my writing muscles tend to get flabby and my ideas become soggy and sloppy.
It's the problem of inspiration. Inspiration, for a writer, is like a clear, crisp, dry autumn day for a cross-country runner. It's a time to cherish, and coast, and indulge in good feelings. All your muscles are lean and stretched and fit; no knots. You can fly, if you felt like it.
But not all days are like that. It has been imperative for me to learn to work without inspiration, because otherwise, I'd only work when I had no other distractions. And then that good feeling is just an illusion, because my writing isn't nearly as tight as my emotion thinks that it is.
KMBoots asked earlier if I knew when what I was writing was quality. While I'm writing it, the answer is definitely (and usually) "NO." (My creative stuff anyway-- the stuff I do professionally, I know if it's crap the moment my fingers touch the keyboard, usually because I know when I'm about to try to cover up a lack of knowledge with some acrobatic prose)
I write with one pair of eyes; I revise with another. I do a lot of editing once a story has been completed. For example, The End of the World Pool went through something like 16 drafts before it was published. Blackberry Witch went through nine, I think. Eviction Notice only went through four, and it kills me to read it now because it has so many things I want to fine tune.
BUT-- different strokes. No one is right for everyone, all the time. This is why I stress that the important thing is to just sit your keister down in the chair and write. There's no substitute-- not research, not workshops, not classes. If you're writing consistently, powered by your own strength of character rather than your Muse, you'll better be able to figure out how YOU write, and what works for you.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I haven't published anything yet, so grain of salt and all. But so far it seems to me that the good feeling is there to let you know which idea is worth pursuing. If you've toyed around with plots for five books, and only one really speaks to you and inspires joy when you're working on it, that's the one you should write.
But if you're going to write it well, you probably need to know all that stuff The Rabbit and KMBoots are going on about.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: [QB]
quote:If Scott thinks there was a misunderstanding, I'm sure he will say so. He hasn't been hesitant to do so in the past.
How would you know? I'm curious-- this isn't the first time you've insinuated a deeper-than-possible mental connection to others in this virtual space.
I'm not particularly inclined to apologize. [qb]
Clarification of intent is not the same as an apology and you seemed rather committed to the former just a short time back. Only a few week ago on a parallel forum, you made quite fuss about feeling the need to correct a misunderstanding. I'm not sure why I need some deep mental connection to you to presume you meant it.
I do think its odd that you expressed regret about your snarkiness hurting the discussion but none about hurting people. Why do you suppose that might be?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I do think its odd that you expressed regret about your snarkiness hurting the discussion but none about hurting people. Why do you suppose that might be?
I care more about the discussion than I do about your feelings.
You are correct; I am not apologizing. If you'll review carefully, you'll also note that I am not clarifying my intent.
quote: Only a few week ago on a parallel forum, you made quite fuss about feeling the need to correct a misunderstanding. I'm not sure why I need some deep mental connection to you to presume you meant it.
There, as here, I was correcting the idea that you can read people's brains.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What do you think went wrong here Captain?
Nope. This problem isn't caused by failure to communicate or misunderstanding, just the opposite. It took a bit, but Scott has made his point pretty clear to his intended audience.
When one or both parties leaves the table with unkind feelings I think it is a failure in communication.
Not trying to pick on you, if I myself saw somebody leave a conversation they had just had with me angry but I only had the best of feelings, I would still say we failed in our efforts to communicate, or a failure to communicate.
BB, You are talking about a situation where offense was taken although none was intended. I would agree such situation represent a failure in communication. But that isn't what happened here. When I final figured out he was trying to insult me, Scott confirmed that I understood his intent accurately.
So please quit implying I'm being overly sensitive and taking offense at something I shouldn't have. Scott confirmed that was his intent.
Rabbit, I am not implying anything about you yourself. If I was trying to say that you are being overly sensitive I would have outright said as much. I am merely stating that when a conversation ends with one side disatisfied or frustrated or any sort of negative emotion, I classify that as a failure in communication.
Scott clearly has a quarrel with you, and feels he was right to criticize you in the manner that he did. When quarrels go unresolved communication has failed. I would say that God and Satan are failing to communicate, but it does not follow that I am then saying God is the or even part of the problem.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I think the right idea is to write a short story, get it published, and go on from there. It's the standard method for writers to establish themselves, and if you can handle a short story you should be well on your way to writing a book. (1 chapter at a time!)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm still working on this if anyone is curious, ProjectRho is an awesome resource.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
What's ProjectRho?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Well, it is the internet. Good grammar is not required for the internet.
Bulls*#t. That is an excuse, and a poor one at best.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
You have displeased Kwea. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: What's ProjectRho?
It's a website that pretty much gives the best more extensive description of space related technologies and science while always framing it in terms of "if your writing a story, this is what's realistic if your going for hard science".
Essentially the holygrail for writers who want something scientifically accurate and willing to constrain themselves but lack the background.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
You mean for people who want to write hard scifi but don't understand science?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: You mean for people who want to write hard scifi but don't understand science?
You're so kind.
There's a huge difference between not understanding science and not having an extensive background in a particular field of science.
But that would require giving Blayne the benefit of the doubt, so I guess I understand where you're coming from. Still, seems needlessly mean.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I most definately meant 'lacking the background' as in not having a degree in it yet can understand the material when described the clipnotes version in simple language.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by jebus202: You have displeased Kwea.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: You mean for people who want to write hard scifi but don't understand science?
You're so kind.
There's a huge difference between not understanding science and not having an extensive background in a particular field of science.
But that would require giving Blayne the benefit of the doubt, so I guess I understand where you're coming from. Still, seems needlessly mean.
Who said I was talking about Blayne?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Well, he said "for people who..." and then described what he saw as himself. You said "You mean for people who..." which means you are essentially offering another view of a group of people that Blayne obviously identifies with.
Just read the posts in sequence. It's obvious Blayne is talking about himself, and therefore just as obvious that you are also talking about him.
If that's not what you meant, then I think you should probably explicitly say so, and clarify who you were referring to.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
So as it turns out I have discovered a flaw in my idea for economical space travel, it isn't insurmountable but it is pretty tripply!
Basically the idea of accelerating at 1g and then switching to deaccelerating at 1g work's fine, but the problem is that as pointed out to me by my friend is that at the switch over relative gravity will swap, so up will be down and vice versa.
It's really trippy and because most humans are rooted in thinking about gravity in terms of Earth gravity even when I should know better it's a difficult problem to notice, which is the advantage of having a second pair of eyes review these ideas.
The easiest solution is simply to design the ship with magnatized bulkheads and simply swap right before the switch over point where the furnature and finishings go and design things with that in mind, I also forgot to consider HOW the ship would even deaccelerate!
Should the ship simply turn off its engines and gradually turn 180 degrees and then deaccelerate or simply design my ships with engines at both ends?
Trippy stuff.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Blayne, as someone who's pursued this kind of technical stuff to make my own ftl travel system, I can say that sooner or later you have make the step from science to fiction or you will drive yourself nuts, especially if you're not a physicist yourself!
I do like the idea of the acceleration one way and the decceleration the other way, though. Whatever the science behind it, it's an interesting idea.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
The ship's main engines should be mounted so that they can swivel around the body (or along an axis perpendicular to travel). This would require some fairly strong structural elements, but if you're only planning to do a G or so, anything reasonable should hold up just fine.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
But then you have to worry that the engines don't incinerate the rest of the ship when they're firing in reverse.
Maybe it'll be easier to find a way around the gravity concern? Like make the ship a big centrifuge so that gravity isn't necessarily in the same direction as motion, like the Discovery One?
It might not be as aesthetically pleasing, but does it matter?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
It's not good to rely on for a warship, basically the going plan is "earth gravity when in transit, null-g in combat".
But the swivel idea is interesting.
[ September 12, 2010, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Well, he said "for people who..." and then described what he saw as himself. You said "You mean for people who..." which means you are essentially offering another view of a group of people that Blayne obviously identifies with.
Just read the posts in sequence. It's obvious Blayne is talking about himself, and therefore just as obvious that you are also talking about him.
If that's not what you meant, then I think you should probably explicitly say so, and clarify who you were referring to.
Problems with your reading comprehension and starting assumptions are not my fault.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Well, he said "for people who..." and then described what he saw as himself. You said "You mean for people who..." which means you are essentially offering another view of a group of people that Blayne obviously identifies with.
Just read the posts in sequence. It's obvious Blayne is talking about himself, and therefore just as obvious that you are also talking about him.
If that's not what you meant, then I think you should probably explicitly say so, and clarify who you were referring to.
Problems with your reading comprehension and starting assumptions are not my fault.
Right. Okay then. Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Question: does it need to decelerate that fast?
The Space Shuttle has maneuvering thrusters on the nose so it doesn't plow in to satellites. You could have a scaled down forward thruster... I imagine (and I may be wrong) that it doesn't take a lot to slow something down in dead space.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Just flip the ship 180 degrees at turnover. Obviously everything needs to be stowed so it doesn't go all over the place in those few minutes of freefall. You warships will fall down towards their targets riding a miles-long flame; the enemy's gate will not only be down, it will be charred to a crisp.
Recall the Human Lesson from the Man-Kzin wars: Anything capable of accelerating any significant chunk of metal at Earthlike gravities is itself a deadly weapon.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
won't the crew go splat as its being flipped?
Like I mean if I have a warship, kinda box-y rectangularily or cyndrically shaped (so not a sphere) going at 1g in a given direction or 975km/s whichever is relevant here and then at that point I flip it around along the long axis will there be any newtonian g forces as its flipping that the crew would be affected by if distributed among it?
@KoM, a useless weapon as it would be in no ones interest to spagitify solar colonies, each one is the equivilent of a decently sized city with considerable industrial and economic and logistical implications for the occupier if it can be grabbed intact.
And unlike cities can be easily evacuated and repurposed.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Just flip it slowly enough so that the centripetal acceleration doesn't hurt them (keep it under a few g, or if you want to be consistent, keep the acceleration at maximum inhabited radius to 1 g). Even a very large ship should only take a few minutes to do that (though I haven't run the calculations).
Indeed, if you turn it slowly enough, the centripetal acceleration will be low enough the crew will think they are in zero g.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
After watching the first season of Sci-Fi Science I have some ideas in combination with ProjectRho for the material composition of a warships armor and possibly it's shields.
For the defense against Nuclear shape charges, mass drivers, small arms fire, and missiles:
For Lasers:
quote:Basically, the energy requirement to damage a surface is measured in joules/cm2. If you exceed that value, you do damage, otherwise you fail. Keep in mind that a Joule is the same thing as a watt-second.
However, neither thermal kill nor impulse kill works very well with armor. So we use the third method: drilling. The amount of energy required to drill through an object is within a factor of 2 or so of the heat of vaporization of that object. There are also two other limits: the maximum aspect ratio of the hole is usually less than 50:1, and the actual drilling speed, for efficient drilling, is limited to about 1 meter per second (depending on the material).
Therefore, the best anti-laser armor will be that material with the highest vaporization energy for its mass. The best candidate is some form of carbon, at 29.6 kilojoules/gram. You do not want a form that is soft or easily powdered, or the vapor action under laser impact will blow out flakes of armor, allowing the laser to penetrate much faster. Steel has a higher vaporization energy, but it masses more as well.
Under laboratory conditions, if an armor layer was 5 g/cm2 of carbon, burning through a 1 cm2 (1.12 cm diameter) spot of armor would take about 148 kilojoules and 20 milliseconds. An AV:T laser cannon with 50 megaJoules could burn through 330 such armor layers in a few seconds, under laboratory conditions (i.e., enough layers to burn through the entire ship the long way).
However, under combat conditions there is no way one could focus the laser down that tiny and keep it on the same spot on the target ship for multiple seconds.
It would be better to use a beam focused down to a larger 10 cm2 spot (11.2 cm diameter). Granted the beam power required to penetrate jumps from 148 kilojoules to 15 megaJoules, but now if we have an uncertainty in the target's velocity of up to 5 meters per second it doesn't matter.
Of course, if price is no object, you can do better than carbon. Boron has a vaporization energy of 45.3 kilojoules/gram and is only slightly denser than carbon. Expensive, though.
This in combination with Photochromatic coating of the armor with a carbon-fibre layer(s) would I think provide some protection against laser armament.
Then there's Cold Plasma, which could work if it could be determined how to mould it around the ship.
For nukes:
quote: In Space Propulsion Analysis and Design they give the specs on a typical shadow shield. Starting at the atomic engine, the gamma rays and neutrons first encounter 18 centimeters of beryllium (which acts as a neutron reflector), followed by 2 centimeters of tungsten (mainly a gamma-ray shield but also does a good job on neutrons), and finally 5 centimeters of lithium hydroxide (To stop the remaining neutrons. Hydrogen slows down the neutrons and lithium absorbs them.). This attenuates the gamma flux to a value of 0.00105, and neutron flux to 4.0e-9. This has a mass of 3,500 kilograms per square meter of shadow shield (ouch!). For a rough estimate it should be a disk with a radius equal to the radius of the reactor core. To estimate the size of the core is over my head but it is covered in SPAD.
Some sort of composite armor of the above for resisting radiation would probably be sufficient if my engine is efficient enough and uses little enough mass for fuel and still be practical.
Mass Drivers, Railguns, Coilguns:
A carbon fibre mesh with whatever is the strongest/lightest allow known to science.
Of course I'm skeptical that any of this could be effective for keeping the ship alive for the 'dozens to hundreds' of exchanged blows in fiction so story speaking the above armor is probably only to be good for maybe 3-6 direct hits.
Then we have Point Defense and Evasive Maneuvering, the latter is gonna be hard for anything in transit but the former is probably a good solution for any debris or missiles.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Blayne, something occurred to me as I was reading the Ishmael part of the discussion that I think might be helpful to you. The reason for getting good,true information when writing fiction is not to be technically correct. The reason for having good information is so that out-of-place things don't interfere with the reader being pulled into the story. It doesn't matter whether or not you can justify something; what matters is some little tidbit strikes the reader as enough "off" the he starts wondering about it instead of your story.
An example: I was watching Highlander-Endgame on TV (a perfect minefield of historical inaccuracies*) thousands of anachronism pass by without causing a ripple but in one segment that was supposed to take place in 1712, they make a reference to the King. There wasn't a king of Great Britain in 1712; there was a queen. Now they could justify it any number of ways - maybe they meant some pretender or the queen's consort or that the Irish brigand wouldn't know anyway - but it didn't matter as I was already out of the story and googling british monarchs.
*Like a 16th century Scot would be named "Heather".
I apparently missed this;
From what I read, readers encountering a situation that is "off" or appears unrealistic will actually in the end cement their appreciation of the work more in a "fridge brilliance" moment when at some point they look into it and realize "holy crud, that's actually really clever" and then loyalty is assured in that moment.
For example in the anime Katanagatari, they at one point during the episode visited a derelict castle in the middle of a desert that wouldn't be out of place in an arabian nights tale.
But to my mind should have been out of place in Japan and was like "No no no, that's not right, there can't be a massive desert in Japan." So with the name of the prefecture I looked it up and holy shit there's actually a prefecture sized desert!!!
I haven't questioned the anime since even when they pulled out the Revolvers in an Edo period Japan tale
I still have no idea of what a "Blayne Moment" is, the closest thing I could guess is "don't make your stories one massive mary sue pile up" but that would've been constructed as actually good advice and been respectful as opposed to "Blayne Moment".
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
So, it's been... gosh, over a year since you fist posted this. How is the novel going, anyway?
This should be fun! I look forward to reading what you've got. It's fun to see the work other people about my age have been working on. Do you want to see what I've done in the same period, by which I mean the last year or so? Besides something like 15 or 16 school essays, (which is for school, not fun, but hey, any writing is better practice than no writing!) probably more, and reading a ton of literature in genres I've never read before (Raymond Carver isn't bad. I found an influence I didn't know I had), I've written a feature length screenplay, several short stories, a short epic poem and I directed, shot, edited and presented a 25-minute short film.
I still feel like I wasted so much time I could have used making more things, though. I procrastinate alot, and don't get nearly as much done as I want. I have a few more short stories I want to finish, and, you know what, I think I'm going to do more work on them tomorrow.
One of them sucks (I've never tried the style before, and I'm just not really feeling it. I'll have to start from page one again, definitely), one of them I have planned out, all I need is to just finish it point by point, and then there's a couple more short screenplays... man, I have to shoot a (shorter) short film in the next couple months based on one of those scripts, and then finish that second feature script I've been planning by the end of March. Wow. I am busy.
Oh, and here's a great question to everyone: Pulp adventure stories. Can anyone recommend some good ones? I kinda need to write a pulp-style short story, and while I think I know the feel, I would feel more comfortable after hearing a few recommendations, and reading a few things some others here like.
Time for bed. I really need to get started. I've wasted so much time.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm still brainstorming stuff, I have the problem I start on one problem and then get distracted by another idea, end result is little gets done all around except for a bunch of folders made.
Here's the thread I posted on TvTropes.
I want to be a writer, maybe even a manga artist just so I can have flexibility in how I want to tell my stories, narrative is very important to me.
But I have 2 problems, 1, is that I have "alot" of ideas and working on one idea excludes me from working on others, so like a bunch of hooligans rushing through one door very little gets done aside from brainstorming and sketching out characters and plots.
Partially solved by a deliberate invoking of the Moorcrock Effect, "Okay, what if I made EACH story a segment of the same universe and then make an epic myth arc at the very end where it all comes together to end the story?" in a massive cross over, good to have an end goal right?
My second problem, is that I'm one of those overly enthusiastic otaku's who sees a cool thing and then decides that I must have that cool thing, to the point that as one person uncharitably put it:
"I just think, knowing you, and knowing everything I've read about this so far, that this is going to be a laundry list of "wouldn't it be cool" Blayne moments. Which is great, sitting around with friends, or whatever. If you put it all in an novel, you're going to be disappointed when people hate it."
Uncharitably because I am skeptical I'ld be so blind to have say... a Russian girl esper with a katana in an otherwise serious alternate history scifi war novel set in the future but I suspect that things I would consider innoculous may or may not appear that way to an outsider and snowball over time.
Story Idea That I Intend to be a Trilogy: [This idea is first because it is the only exception, it is the only one that won't be intentionally made to fit in the same canon as the others below except for maybe a cameo to confuse the fans and make them pointlessly argue over it on the forums.]
Working title: Ishmael War Trilogy; Scifi, AltHist, WWIII It is the year 2098 and on June 9th 2087 (100 years after I was born actually, hey write what you know) an old Soviet Cruiser from the Soviet Army Space Corps that was about to be decommissioned and scrapped is because of lax security hijacked by a disgruntled Naval Intelligence officer Radoslav Ramius and does a Kamikaze run on the heart of NATO, the United States of America, our protagonist, Ishmael Rozhdestvenski and an Operative of the Bureau of Internal Security (something like a KGB political Commissar meets Commando, like Ciaphas Cain) who was tracking down the conspiracy could only manage to change the course of the ship so it hit Ohio instead, killing 30 million Americans in an instant.
NATO launches an immediate counter attack and the war begins, a tale of conspiracy, betrayal underneath a speculative fiction space opera using the interplanetary war between 'Space NATO' and 'Space Warsaw Pact' forces as the backdrop exploring how a hard science fiction war where both sides have interplanatary vessels capable of traveling between space colonies (like the ones from Gundam), Mars or Earth within days would look like primarily through Ismael's eyes but also through a cast of characters on both sides of the war from different ranks and perspectives, like Harry Turtledove but epic.
Notes: I am heavily using ProjectRho for information on using actual possible science for this. Notes2: Because I absolute hate the Tom Clancy Antagonist motions of "The Soviets are always the bad guy and start the war" and the utterly subtle as a dancing elephant way its pushed through this time the war starts because of a conspiracy involving mid level intelligence agents on both sides of the iron curtain who feel their respective gov'ts and people are losing their patriotism after so many years of peace and quickly losing their sense of purpose. Inspired a bit from General Shepard from Call of Duty and a bit from observation from disgruntled military analysts I've met online and was like "They could totally do this with a little pushing".
Story Ideas That I Intend to Write as Long Runners: 1. Working title... Uhm, I don't have one... odd. Let's call it the Levi Saga; Scifi, Urban Fantasy, Cosmic Horror, Horror, Shonen(?)
This is only one I've actually started on, mostly as a result of some daydreaming of "What if I ended up in a Forgotten Realms type of society and gave the Drow the Industrial Revolution? And then sent say, my daughter from there back to my home dimension a few years after I left?" So the story basically begins from there.
Gordon is your average high school student, has no powers and lives in a mundane world of nothing special or extraordinary happening, he's actually very normal and angsting over normal things, he just moved to the municipality of Rigaud (Quebec, Canada, write what you know! Guess where I live ) because his parents wanted to open up an electronics and computer store there after inheriting some money, thus separating from all of his friends, from everything he knew and what his world was made up of "like that".
He made a friend, a weird scifi geek goth thing who spouts babylon 5 quotes... Who he also can't really stand either but figures by hanging around someone like him he can be left alone, who would approach two people like them right?
In the 3 weeks before school starts he starts to slowly warm up to his surroundings, especially all of the trees and canadian nature in general, always having lived and never have left downtown Montreal before then he finds nature fascinating and reassuring.
At the start of the school year he and Alessandro Lucardo (hint, significant anagram in last name) are about to enter the classroom, Gordon is momentarily taken aback by some weird sense of deja vu but dismisses it and enters the room.
There sitting in the front is Levi, The Oujo and a bit of an airhead, Gordon is immediately smitten by her and she seems to take an immediate interest in him as well... (Un)Surprisingly his plan mentioned above backfires as it turns out Alessandro is friends with just about everybody and everybody also turns out to be just as weird only in different ways! Everyone then rings Gordon into their activities and socialness much to his ire.
[Levi is the above mentioned Dark Elf girl sent back as a child, (See Unusually Interesting Uninteresting Site, her ears are generally hidden by her hair and her eyes make her look Asian and her skin color, well, African Canadian so no one questions anything until later) she knows just about nothing as to what she is and I am playing with the idea of reconstructing Always Chaotic Evil.
Basically 'Drow' there is no real consensus in the source material if they are simply born evil or raised evil because of their Chronic Backstabber Disoder society, so what if they ARE always BORN evil, how would that develop in an otherwise loving foster family in a quiet idealic neighbourhood? This would be explored in the second novel.]
Then murders start happening... One after another.... Even worse, it's a groundhog day loop controlled by who they don't know, can Gordon and his new friends however reluctantly he made them break out and solve the case?
The first book of this introduces all of the characters and the loop begins and ends in it as its only an introduction into a larger broader story and verse' with the characters of that classroom all gaining powers and abilities from their adjacentness to Levi (The Drow sent back by her human father) and all end up having to continuously band together to fight off extradimensional eldritch abominations with things getting more insane bit by bit.
The what I consider to be the interesting bit is that it's a little bit of a round robbin, all of the characters personalities and what not are based off of my friends in real life and tailoring their abilities/weapons based on their preferences.
I also intend to use the Canadian Armed Forces as a recurring Mauve Shirt BadAss Army to help deal with the threats whenever they get too much to handle, part of my conception of the struggle between the Eldritch Abominations and my characters is a question of "Order" vs "Chaos" with Human weapons, Magic, Abilities, etc all being manifestations of "Order" and thus partly harmful to pure "Chaos" which is what the Abominations are composed of but because the material universe is partly chaotic it's not perfect so losses happen.
2. Ouroboros Cyrcle*; Urban Fantasy, Very Shonen
*Kinda a pontmantau of Circle + Cycle + Sickle, I liked the imagery.
Julius is having a bad day.
Julius since he was a child could always see spirits, his family thought or rather explained them away as delusions, certainly a result of the brain damage he received as a child in a terrorist attack he was caught in as a child, visiting Prince Edward Island with his parents... But they died in the explosion.
Now he is an adult, graduated from University with a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science but times are tough and he can't get a job so taking advice from his forum penpal from Japan he enrolled into the JET program.
The Spirits in Canada had generally been friendly, they're scariness wore off as he grew older and fear turned into annoyance as they wouldn't leave him alone, they included all sorts of things like local inuit folktale spirit guides and the like.
He was barely an hour off the plane in Japan walking through a park before he was attacked by some kind of giant centipede thing!
With no one able to see or interact with it all he could do was run no idea whats happening or why or what to do, it could touch him, it could hurt him and was clearly trying to eat him, the spirits back home never dared.
Running for his life he runts into a girl walking down some temple steps wearing a miko costume, surprised and visibly angry she's about to give the foreigner a piece of her mind (or rather is in the middle of doing so) ignoring his desperate attempts to get up to run when she notices the giant centipede monster.
She pulls out her Bokken (as she was in a hurry to kendo practice) and injures it, to the foreigners slackjawed amazement and it starts to run off she pulls up the funny man and forces him to follow her as she chases it, intent on finishing it off.
It then opens a portal and they come crashing through.
They appear in another world, they soon find the centipede and question it and then the girl finishes it off, they are amazed for a few minutes at the ghibli hills terrain but start getting worried... How would they get home?
Startled as Julius had forgotten all about it starts deeply considering what to do... How to get home... How to get home... How to open a portal... And then voila! The portal reopens, surprised but relieved they rush their way back through in a slightly different location than before.
They part ways without exchanging names leaving Julius confused and baffled at the whole thing but does a little experiment, discovers that he can now open said portal at will now and tests it out going in and out, opening and closing.
Satisfied, he returns home and prepares for his first day at work tomorrow, later arriving in class to his complete and utter shock he sees the girl he ran into in the front row! Talk about contrived coincidences! He doesn't believe it, quickly he glances down at his desk to the attendance sheet and mumbles through the kanji in his head... Hik... Hikari... Fuji...Wara...
Wacky Hijinks Ensue.
I'm still toying with the idea of making the Other Universe for this story like a photo negative representation of wherever they were on Earth when they went, with a dark monochrome sky, with people and creatures distinguished with pastel colours and sorta post apocolyptic but not quite and other things but I'll leave that for later.
What matters it that Julius, a foreign exchange english teacher in Japan with the help of a girl and her sister end up exploring and adventuring in an "Other" world, but, do so exploring and deconstructing (and then reconstructing) video game tropes, for example in the "Other" world they gain something like a character class and gain power(s) through more or less the same way a jrpg or crpg character would, by completing 'quests' and killing things. The girl, Hikari went in with a Bokken but was a Miko as her family tradition, so she becomes like a sword-saint cleric multiclass kind of thing, her sister is a bookworm and a fan of dragonlance and is anemic so she becomes a wizard. Julius the next major trip in brings airsoft stuff so he becomes what I'm going to name a "Gunsmith" pistoleer kind of archetype but can use whatever he brings and the world gives him unlimited ammo, so airsoft AK47 becomes a very nice thing to have!
3. Senatus Populusque Tyrannum (The Senate and the People of Tyranny); High Fantasy, D&D, War
On the world of Tagnik Zur there used to be Dragons, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Dragons who through tens of thousands of years of civilization brought upon their own downfall when their wars, so destructive forced them to capture and enslave humanoids from other worlds to fight for them, as a desperate measure when one of the number, one of the Dragon Emperor's, had magically created his own race of foot soldiers who could seemingly replicate themselves endlessly (through normal breeding, the rate of reproduction of humanoid dragons cross mixed with Mammal dna makes Dragon reproduction seem glacial) and once armed with draconic magic and dragon forged weapons were a potent force that could seemingly absorb endless casualties.
So the others grew desperate, crafted massive superportals to breach the aether and reached out to other worlds and stole their peoples to fight for them, and fight and die they did, eventually these creatures came to see the dragons as gods and through prayer granted the Dragons even greater magical powers, through their feudal system 99% of this power went to the Emperors who ascended to godhood themselves, high enough to lord it over the mortals of their world but not high enough, they restrained themselves as to not anger their own Gods, the Progenitors of Dragonkind, Bahamut and Tiamat.
Eventually the Puppet King of the Dracos (the magically created race, think of them as Expies of Dragonlance Draconians) rebelled against his God's demanding freedom for his people! Freedom to forge their own destiny to stop pointlessly dying for beings who couldn't care less.
His rebellion was nearly successful... Thousands rebelled and took up arms against the Gods, armed with dragon slaying halberds they acquired mounts of lowly War Dragons (I have 3 races of Dragons, High Dragons, War Dragons and Mage Dragons) sympathetic to their cause fought the war to the very strongholds of their gods.
And then King of the Dracos, Lord Tyrannus was slain, stabbed in the back by his close friend and advisor, the Necromancer Prodicius who hungered for the ability to cast spells "That Transcend 9th Circle Spells" (Epic Magic, which can only be unlocked with permission from the gods).
In his death, from the very instant that his death hit home, the whole Draco Nation mourned, their grief deep to the bone, but this moment of profound loss fueled Tyrannus's own ascension, and not content with the level his former gods held went higher and brought upon the wrath of Bahamut and Tiamut upon their children.
Bahamut and Tiamat arrived and punished the dragon race, gave them a choice, Leave Forever and remain Gods or stay and be forever stripped of it.
About 95% of the Dragon race left that day, Tyrannus himself was both punished and rewarded, he could remain a God, but he would forever stay on that world and lowered to a god of lesser rank and forever unable to interfere in the world for there were other races now and they deserved a chance to make their own living and having only one god favoring one race would unbalance the world.
Fast forward a thousand years the Dracos, now Tyrannians in honor of their legendary King, have founded after centuries of migration their own nation, the City and Republic of Tyrannum, for how there could ever be a King as Great as The Lord? Blasphemy! So the people choose their representatives who handle the issues of day to day government, in a body called the Senate led by an half elected half approved by the Senete Chancellor who acts as a permament "Regent" to the empty Throne...
This story is a war series following the career of [s]Captai-[/s]Lt. Drake (Demoted From The Call) who fights the many many many enemies of the Republic as an officer in charge of an ad hoc bunch of misfits and crazies who goes on to win ever larger battles for ever increasing stakes and soon he will hold the fate of the Republic and then the world itself in his hands/claws.
Very much a large homage to The Doom Brigade from Dragonlance by Tracy Hicman and Margarette Weis and partly out of a frustration out of a lack of due diligence in writing sequels, so this idea started as fanfiction and then I was like "Wait, what if I changed a few things so there wouldn't be infringement and then just make my own story and publish it?"
Notable for my desire to balance Crapsack world with World half Empty with some War40k influences, essentially the "East" of this world looks like an inverted Europe (you'll see in the link below, imagine Russia in the West instead the East with China further to the west and you got it) with the Europe part being in the "Middle Ages" period with high birthrate among humans, low lifespawns, constant wars and struggle, famines, plagues, chaos all around... Except in one place, the Republic.
The Republic is like a beacon of civilization, a shining torch in the dark, Humans in there live long life spans, a whole 70 years with the lucky rich ones! A strong military defends the border settlements from raiders and vikings, public bathes and the aquaduct provide fresh drinking water and hygene, public schools provide education and the elections while favoring the rich and connected are based on "One Man, One Vote" and anyone with enough support can become a Senator.
Basically I took Rome, removed Slavery and polished it down so it more resembles the modern United States and is more "theme park" Rome really, even to the point I have them use Canadian army ranks (author appeal).
But there's a downside, the Republic practices apatheid towards Humans, "The Tyrian Burdon" so to speak, Humans cannot vote, they have SOME rights but only very basic ones and dissent and demonstrations or protests are crushed with ruthless force, humans live in ghettos, cannot serve in the military unless they're a Israelite* and pretty much denied any significant participation in the Republic despite a good number of humans would be willing to do so and be loyal, afterall it sucks living as a dirt farmer in a mud house in Middle Aged poverty.
So damned if you live outside the borders and damned if you live inside, the idea here to make it grey and gray morality whenever the subject turns to Humans and their treatment with no clear answer and forces Drake who slowly gains political importance will soon inherit "The Human Question" and will have to grapple with it and how to handle it.
[*In this world, some people were probably wondering did they ever steal humans from Earth? The Answer is yes, including Jewish people from different time periods, I am treading this line carefully, very carefully and discuss it deeply with my Orthodox friends. But basically the Jewish People at first served with some reluctance the Dragons under the same rational judea may have served the Romans, protection for service with them becoming proficient and much feared and respected warriors (BadAss Israeli) but when the Dragons demanded worship from them the New Israelites having been the only Humans who maintained their unique ethnocultural and religious identity refused entirely and were exiled and forced into a migration and diaspora on this world too.
Eventually they meet up with the migrating Tyrians and help each other out and similar to how modern Israelies befriended the Druze the Tyrians grew to respect and befriended the Israelites and considered them distinct and separate from the rest of humanity who they feared and hated for fighting against them during their rebellion despite being in the same boat.
(Humans were usually always jealous of the special treatment Dracos/Tyrians recieved so when the chance came to take their place they took it gleefully)
So when the Tyrians founded the Republic they parted ways with the New Israelites who went to found a new Israel but some stayed and were the only humans explicitly given equal rights to Tyrians.]
I toyed with the idea of making this a webcomic and may still do so, oh and beware Oots-Style art
4. Salazar; High Fantasy; Politics; War; Seinen
This is pretty much why I first came up with the idea of merging all my ideas together, as I wanted to make a story about a Dark Elf 'Wizard who Becomes a God Succeeds But Becomes a Eldritch Star God' where he's from a vaguely Chinese Fantasy counterpart culture and his early life is that of a mountain hermit wizard who comes down to help a Warlord become Emperor of Kathay.
But I also really wanted to work on by Draconian-Expy story...
So wait, I have a map, and I have a region where China could go... Why not merge them!?
So voila, this takes place about 300 years in the past of SPQT and deals with how Kathay/Han/Zhou/Whatevs (Instanbul Not Constantinople!) got united as one nation under one Emperor at the sametime as how Raenir got to become an all powerful mage, quite-o-bit of crossover material as he has to struggle against rival wizards from the Republic later on.
And then when Raenir "Succeeds" is when he starts becoming an influence in all of my other stories, a multi story Big Bad or a very sinister meddling influence in EACH of my above stories except the WWIII one, and at some point characters from all of them get together to stop him, or try to, I haven't decided yet if they succeed (and this ultimately becomes Lovecraft Lite or fail; Cosmic Horror).
[Basically Raenir when he first succeeds is stopped and imprisoned in an interdimensional fortress at the border of reality, he uses his significant power to "poke" other worlds to find one where he can enter, regain his strength and then burn reality to cinders and the stories are basically the characters slowly coming to realize this threat and working to stop it.]
Story That I Intend As a One Off But Fits With The Above. Haven't got a name for it, but Psychological Horror, maybe a tongue in cheek working title of "Unlucky Star"
Basically I was reading tvtropes one morning (technically ALL night AND morning) when I discovered that there's apparantly a Lucky Star Darkfic about the firdge horror ramifications of what would happen when they graduated and ended up separating when going to college, etc and this inspired me.
So the premise is that you have four friends who are attending different colleges who were childhood friends, all nerdy in different degrees and yes they are meant to be homages/lucky star expies, but I want to make money so, yeah.
One of them, the youngest has a foreigner as an English teacher (as she didn't want to be scared of them anymore and not being able to understand them) who has the quaint little hobby of doing sketches when hes teaching the class, not actually using it to teach or anything just when he sits down and has a moment.
She looks at it and sees what looks like an elf, posed in such a way to look introspective and stoic, interested she asks about it. He says he hasn't been able to get the imagery out of his head and has been as a hobby drawing manga and one day intends to publish; she does as well and they start to become friends in a Finding Forrester kind of relationship with her the apprentice and supprting each other's goals inbetween teaching and her putting her life and her friends back together and solving their problems with him becoming a kind of 'glue' to bring them back together.
[There's this book by a Japanese author that had a similar premise actually up to this point (in the loosest possible definition of the term, it was about 4 male friends who were fascinated with death and were stalking an old guy waiting for him to die only for him to catch them and he ended up becoming a cranky mentor figure to them but when he died they all drifted apart, so this is kinda like the opposite of that, sorta...)
But then they start getting visions, weird stuff starts happening, reality just slowly starts to stop making sense as if Studio Shaft got permission from God to rewrite reality! Eventually they discover that the paintings and drawings of that Elf their sensei has been drawing is "Alive" and looking right at them...
That Elf is the above Raenir Salazar seeking to use this world as an exit, and if he does it will end and what follows is a bone chilling psychological horror adventure into the paranormal and their own psyches with them trying to stop this somehow having to relive their worst fears, their worst memories, having their minds broken again and again from psychological torture the closer they get to stopping him as the Elf Star God is angry and will not be foiled this time.
Story That May Be a One Shot Or May Be a Mini Series I Don't Know: Septum; High Fantasy, Adventure, Shonen?
Basically this takes place in same subsetting and period as SPQT, Septum is a member of the for lack of a better name right now Inquisition, he hunts down rogue mages who are traitors to the Republic (as magic is heavily regulated), he has a magic shotgun and a magic revolver that are specially designed for fighting mages, constructs and demons, despite coming from an ancient line of mages he is actually the last of his line (his clan decimated in the ancient past for reasons unknown and slowly dying out) and has zero skill in magic, he can skillfully use basic simply rituals and magic items and understands magic theory but is otherwise incapable of using magic itself directly.
This makes him a perfect agent as most tend to get corrupted from temptation and he thus becomes the only one 'They' can trust on important assignments, he's a [s]Draconian[/s] Tyrian who wears a bad ass trenchcoat and sunglasses as well (they're magical and can see past illusions, so it's justified and his coat holds his ammo!).
The story gets complicated when hes tracking down a conspiracy to open portals to the Nine Hells and suspects the School of Necromancy behind it all at the behest of his wise and kindly patron the Conjurator of the School of Conjuration and investigates the uncooperative and enigmatic school of necromancy.
In the end it turns out that the whole thing was an elaborate ploy to keep him out of the way with constant attempts to kill him as the Kidnly and Wise head of the School of Conjuration has unearthed one of the Super Portals used by the Ancient dragons (Continuality Nod!!!) and is going to use it to access the infinite ley energies of Hell/Abyss "Planes of the Ventral Position" natch, to conquer the world with his own army of fiends and then the multiverse!
The Necromantor, the head of the School of Necromancy who Septum discovered to be an Ancient Lich prior to this and was about to report it to the Conjurator arrives to stop the Conjurator who has betrayed every principle a mage holds dear.
The Archmage of Conjuration laughs, what can a mere Lich do to stop him? The Master of the Hells? The Lich reveals himself then to be not only a lich, but THE LICH, the first one, the one whose very act of betrayal of his dear friend made his name a taboo word and stripped from the Cosmos forever, his very name eliminated from existence and lives on in legacy as the etymology of where the word "Traitor" arrived from.
He got his magic, he got his power but the gods laughing, punished him ande lichified him, his soul was tied to his name and with his name eliminated from existence HE CAN NEVER EVER DIE and is doomed to walk the world an undead monstrosity until the end of time when the world is unmade.
Not only that, but he reveals that he is the reason why his clan was nearly exterminated for he is Septums direct ancestor, woah.
If I expand this story and continue writing it it would probably be something where Spetum dedicates himself to finding the Everchanging Book of Names so that he can finally lay his ancestor to rest while balancing his work in the Inquisition and his missions with the Necromantor slowly learning to rediscover his humanity providing insight and aid to his underlings while also the books would explore the nature of magic and the culture behind "Eastern" magic while "Salazar" explored "Western" magic.
So, wall of text later and I suspect everyone who started reading this is probably dead by now, thoughts and constructive criticism welcome, I am only vaguely aware of copywrite law and am fairly worried about losing my first rights for publishing even it is only summaries and ideas expressed here and reserve the right to later on eventually take this down if I get serious.
Any input welcome, ideally this is better suited having multiple threads for it, and will probably get very confusing if people get interested in this and different people are discussing different things but then again it might be more much more annoying if I cluttered the forums with half a dozen pages so, compromises!
So thoughts? I am still grappling with which stories I'ld want to draw out and make my own manga out of as I'm slowly investing into learning how to draw or might commission people to draw for me, feed back on that front on which ones might work better initially as a visual medium welcome.
I need a blog 0.o
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'ld be interested in seeing what you got.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
So, the answer is "no, I haven't written anything" then?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I got one chapter of "Levi" done, I'm pretty sure I wrote it somewhere up there.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I got really good writing advice recently.
It went like this: write.
Seriously, though, the advice was to spend one week with no media. No TV, no reading, no gaming, and no internet. By drastically decreasing your input you're forced to amp your output way up. It'd be a worthwhile experiment for you.
Of course, I have 20 bucks that says you can't do it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
A week seems excessive... For just 20$ Anyways.
Anyone know what verbal tics are specific to Slavic languages?
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Blayne, instead of all this planning, and researching Slavic verbal ticks, have you tried just... writing?
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: A week seems excessive... For just 20$ Anyways.
Anyone know what verbal tics are specific to Slavic languages?
It's not the money; it's the principle. Since you're addicted to the internet, and haven't done anything even approaching productive creative work in the 5+ years I've seen you around these forums, you might consider it. You'll live quite a few of them before it's all said and done.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Blayne, instead of all this planning, and researching Slavic verbal ticks, have you tried just... writing?
I have a chapter written, although for some parts of what I'm writing, like for the SPQT series, requires significant Tolkien-ish levels of world building before hand as I intend to make my own game system and story setting with it, something akin to a tabletop MMORPG with the map, tables, geography, cities, quest generators all availiable to the DM so there would be limited need for any prep work, it's all done for you.
Essentially a system to solve "derailing" you make your main story and then whenever they go off the rails the lands are already made for them and a quest generator availiable to give them unlimited content while the DM subtly does things to bring them back onto the rails, less work and more helpful for newer GMs who might need practice with brainstorming divergences.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Blayne, in an entire year you've written one chapter. You've done other, unrelated stuff, sure, but in writing, you've done one chapter, as you just said.
I mean, it really takes more than an entire year to do this world-building? How much are you actually going to use in the novel?
You're making an entire game system along with this, and using it as a game setting for use with this system?
Blayne, just write something, for God's sakes. Either do it or don't.
Write a chapter this week. Or better yet, and I'm not joking, write a short story. Not a finished, final draft, a first draft is fine. When I'm done with this script in the next few days, I'll join you. I need to do more work too. I need to write, too.
So, next Saturday, let's both have new short stories done. Not something we've been planning, just something new, impromptu.
Maximum page limit is ten. Double spaced, 12 point Times New Roman font, for convenience. A first draft.
It doesn't have to be good. Just write something fun.
Actually, you know what? I'm tipsy from being out drinking, and this sounds like a great idea. I think I'll make a new thread about it, either tonight or tomorrow.
It could be, like, a fun game all of us could play. Like a writer's group. It would be awesome, and I've totally forgotten that I suggested this as a challenge to Blayne, I totally want to do it on its own merits now for the hell of it.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Anyone know what verbal tics are specific to Slavic languages?
Yes I do know. I don't think the information will be helpful to you however, so I am witholding it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
(Post Edited by Janitor Blade.) You could have not said anything of course and not deliberately ticked me off, but you chose to do so anyways, so screw you and stay out of my thread if your going to be an unhelpful douchbag.
And in the end a futile act of douchbaggery because I can ask the same question of tvtropes and probably get around 5 answers within a day.
for example:
quote: Or a thing I haven't yet seen, but as English language calls almost anything not a man or woman "it", you may have your Slavic speaker slip hes and shes where they don't belong.
Or
quote: Well, the trick commonly used is the lack of "the", "a", "an", and this sort of thing. Also there may be some use of weird sentence structure, like, dunno, "X I am" being just as good as "I am X"... I guess there's more, but here I'm like that fish having no word for water.
... ... ...
As lord Gacek said, sentence structure is interchangeable. Also, there is singular and plural "you" - the latter is more formal and more commonly used.
Oh, and whatever you do, please don't use my writing pattern as an example. It is my personal weirdness, not Russian standard=)
[ January 03, 2011, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Blayne, in an entire year you've written one chapter. You've done other, unrelated stuff, sure, but in writing, you've done one chapter, as you just said.
I mean, it really takes more than an entire year to do this world-building? How much are you actually going to use in the novel?
You're making an entire game system along with this, and using it as a game setting for use with this system?
Blayne, just write something, for God's sakes. Either do it or don't.
Write a chapter this week. Or better yet, and I'm not joking, write a short story. Not a finished, final draft, a first draft is fine. When I'm done with this script in the next few days, I'll join you. I need to do more work too. I need to write, too.
So, next Saturday, let's both have new short stories done. Not something we've been planning, just something new, impromptu.
Maximum page limit is ten. Double spaced, 12 point Times New Roman font, for convenience. A first draft.
It doesn't have to be good. Just write something fun.
Actually, you know what? I'm tipsy from being out drinking, and this sounds like a great idea. I think I'll make a new thread about it, either tonight or tomorrow.
It could be, like, a fun game all of us could play. Like a writer's group. It would be awesome, and I've totally forgotten that I suggested this as a challenge to Blayne, I totally want to do it on its own merits now for the hell of it.
Due to the nature of the time loop plot I was already planning on making a short story version to serve as a prelude to the main story, the short story is the "Bad Ending" to use Visual Novel choose your own adventure parlance though I think it'll be more than 10 pages.
So tell you what, I'll get my ass in gear and finish the short story version by probably friday but you commit yourself to act on my behalf as my proof reader and editor
Edit: I was in the middle of writing this reply in a separate post.
Double Edit: Your post went poof ???
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I will do as I said, no more or less. I won't be your editor, but I'm writing my own things at the same time. Friday or Saturday, then. We'll both post a short story.
Edit: You answered my question, so my post wasn't needed.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Boooooooooooooo *throws peanuts*
I'll continue my writing tomorrow then.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Attention Russian EVE Online players, when I ask in your channel for someone whose bilingual to help me out, I meant it! Emphasis on the bilingual english AND Russian Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Although "Wait." They may have accidently given me an actual verbal tic there, 13 times during the conversation! From two different people!
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Which makes you an asshole, end of story.
You could have not said anything of course and not deliberately ticked me off, but you chose to do so anyways, so screw you and stay out of my thread if your going to be an unhelpful douchbag.
And in the end a futile act of douchbaggery because I can ask the same question of tvtropes and probably get around 5 answers within a day.
for example:
quote: Or a thing I haven't yet seen, but as English language calls almost anything not a man or woman "it", you may have your Slavic speaker slip hes and shes where they don't belong.
Or
quote: Well, the trick commonly used is the lack of "the", "a", "an", and this sort of thing. Also there may be some use of weird sentence structure, like, dunno, "X I am" being just as good as "I am X"... I guess there's more, but here I'm like that fish having no word for water.
... ... ...
As lord Gacek said, sentence structure is interchangeable. Also, there is singular and plural "you" - the latter is more formal and more commonly used.
Oh, and whatever you do, please don't use my writing pattern as an example. It is my personal weirdness, not Russian standard=)
Heh. Those aren't "ticks." And I love that you now think you're an expert in Slavic languages despite the fact that you don't speak any and have never tried to learn one. Give you a month and you'll forget you ever revealed your ignorance, and you'll be spouting off second hand crap as if you came up with the observation yourself. That's why I don't attempt to help you. Cause it only makes it worse.
See, you're the type of person who thinks he knows about something because someone gave him a small piece of out-of-context trivia that he now gets to use as a bludgeon later on. "I know x about Slavic languages! See? Seee??" When you don't understand *why* sentence structure in those languages differs, why certain changes are made in English a result of the arrangement of tenses in Russian or Polish or Czech, why prepositions are witheld or interchanged because Slavic languages are synthetic, and not analytical. You don't care about all that crap because understanding it would actually force you to conduct an intellectual endeavor who's actual goal is implicit understanding, rather than a scrap-heap of useless supposed "facts" that allow you to construct dubious syllogisms that "prove" whatever point you're attempting to make, for no other reason that *you* are making it. You are lazy, and vain, and arrogant, and more importantly, you're annoying, and you're obvious.
And if tvtropes is so helpful... maybe you should post your crap *there!* Or just go on acting like you know more than we do while you ask us how to do the simplest things because you're too lazy or incompetent to manage them yourself.
Because I'm not trying to write some crappy fan-boy novel nobody in their right mind would ever attempt to read, and I *still* managed to learn more useful stuff about the *subject matter you are dealing with* in the last year than you did. Know how I did that? I care about *understanding* things, even more than I care about people knowing how smart and special I am- and it's easy to see I care about that too.
[ January 02, 2011, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote: Heh. Those aren't "ticks." And I love that you now think you're an expert in Slavic languages
You're an idiot, when did I claim I was an expert? Maybe you should take care of whatever personal problems your dealing with before taking it out on me.
You are once more refusing to be of any help, you might as well have stopped posting and the content of this thread would have actually increased from your absence.
I mean c'mon, fanboy novel? Did you even read? Can you even read? How would you know its fanboy anything? There's only two Russian characters in that particular one and one of them is based off of my real life Canadian assimilated Russian friend whose grandmother was born in Belarus and has dozens of ethnic Russian friends in Toronto.
I mean clearly you view me with such contempt that it's also "obvious" that you would refuse to even so much as skim my post outlining my ideas because gasp, finding out that some of them may be interesting would cause your skin to shrivel up.
I'm looking for some basic tics in the interest of making the character, a female highschool student with a Russian grandfather, moe, nothing more nothing less not fanboy anything.
[ January 02, 2011, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
And to answer your question it is because this is Hatrack, where I care about the community and the opinions of the people within it and view it as a source of inspiration and encouragement, I post it here and whereever else I may feel I would recieve positive feedback.
Can you actually come up with a valid reason why I shouldn't post my ideas here? Why I should be asking for help or input? That there's something specific to Hatrack why I shouldn't do it here, or is it because you don't like, you think there may be some silent disapproving majority that also doesn't like me, and feel I shouldn't be wasting bandwidth?
The answer of course is that you actually cannot come up with that valid reason, and yet you lack the decency or maturity to stay out of this thread when you know, point blank, matter of factly that there is nothing I can say or do to get you to bite down hard on your hand/pride to keep you from lashing out at your keyboard.
I asked for help, you refuse to give that help, end of story, don't bother rationalizing it with personal attacks.
You've loooooong since divorced yourself from the position of some kind of objective observer of my immaturities/short temper and now deliberatly doing your best to provoke it.
You withhold knowledge not because you honestly think I couldn't make good use out of it, but out of spite stop pretending its anything but.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Orincoro, it's a really minor quibble and I wasn't going to say anything, but it's come up twice in this thread and each time it jarred me out of what you were saying.
It's "withhold" (or withheld) with two Hs. Just so you know. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
If you honestly actually did care about this subject matter you would go out of your way to make sure I was dealing with it correctly. Regardless of personal feeling for that person, that is the definition of an Otaku-Anything, thus you are not actually all that into Slavic cultures and languages, just a casual observer.
You probably don't even know all that much, probably can't even recall a single tic that an English speaker would catch onto as noticible.
Its very easy for you to claim I don't know anything if you can take the easy cop out and hide behind self righteous indignation as an excuse.
So I think it's official, you don't actually know anything about Russia, Eastern Europe, probably never even gone to the Czech republic and probably just hiding out somewhere in Kansas.
I mean, if you were a decent person, you wouldn't have wasted such a perfectly timed moment to make some headway to make peace with me by actually offering help, a compromise, but instead not only do you refuse to give help although I didn't specifically ask you, but you outright post that you "know this but won't tell you, nyah nyah nyah".
So there we go.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
No, Blayne, I'd like you to go away. I don't want you to deal with this subject matter. I care about it. You don't. It's insulting to me that you would presume to use what I know to make yourself look intelligent and knowledgeable. It's galling to see you do this so blatantly- I even remember the days when you would cut and paste witticisms from other websites for use in your rants here. People don't forget things like that.
quote: thus you are not actually all that into Slavic cultures and languages, just a casual observer.
No, I speak and understand Czech, middlingly well. Which is a lot more than you can say for yourself. It in fact *isn't* much, but I'm quite proud of my accomplishments. I am not so egotistical as to need to demonstrate that knowledge to you, because I don't want to help you. I don't want anyone to help you. I want you to stop all this.
But "into it" no, I'm not a geek about slavic languages or cultures or history. It's fascinating, and I study the history and language because it helps me understand places, and people, and things, but it isn't "my thing," to speak Slavic languages. And yet, despite not being an obsessive geek-boy with no friends, I've managed to understand quite a bit about the subject. A subject you have claimed to be interested in for years, and know so very little about.
quote: Can you actually come up with a valid reason why I shouldn't post my ideas here?
Your ideas are bad. Your ideas are annoying. Your ideas are pathetic reflections of your own inadequacies. Your ideas will never go anywhere, but you will talk about them and reference them as if they represent some actual body of work you have created, and that is annoying. Your ideas, if they are not creative ones, are usually wrong. You are unable to understand why this is. That is also aggravating.
On the more personal side, some reasons include: This is an exceedingly large waste of your time, and it along with your general addiction to the internet is causing serious problems in your life, and has for a very long time. This is also a waste of our time, but for different reasons. Also, the acknowledgement you get, even the negative attention, from the internet is the reason you are addicted to it. That is why you have posted hundreds, literally hundreds of stupid threads on this forum alone. It's like sticking a needle in your arm. This is a drug. And drugs are bad for you.
Posting here about your ideas also does not help you to accomplish anything. If you were more highly motivated, or competent, or mature, it might help you. But this is not helping you, it is making things worse. It is giving you a sense of accomplishment you have not earned- again, that's just all about your addiction. That's why you play mmorpgs, post here, post other places, complain, talk about your web comic, follow politics only *just* enough to have a rough opinion on things, dabble in cultures only just enough to seriously misunderstand things, talk about your family, bring up your problems even though you know the mature thing to do would be deal with them in the ways you desperately don't want to, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I no longer think much of you. There was a time when I thought that might change, but now I know it probably never will. So, indeed, there we go.
[ January 02, 2011, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:No, Blayne, I'd like you to go away. I don't want you to deal with this subject matter. I care about it. You don't. It's insulting to me that you would presume to use what I know to make yourself look intelligent and knowledgeable. It's galling to see you do this so blatantly- I even remember the days when you would cut and paste witticisms from other websites for use in your rants here. People don't forget things like that.
Derp.
quote: No, I speak and understand Czech, middlingly well. Which is a lot more than you can say for yourself. It in fact *isn't* much, but I'm quite proud of my accomplishments. I am not so egotistical as to need to demonstrate that knowledge to you, because I don't want to help you. I don't want anyone to help you. I want you to stop all this.
Narf.
quote: Your ideas are bad. Your ideas are annoying. Your ideas are pathetic reflections of your own inadequacies. Your ideas will never go anywhere, but you will talk about them and reference them as if they represent some actual body of work you have created, and that is annoying. Your ideas, if they are not creative ones, are usually wrong. You are unable to understand why this is. That is also aggravating.
On the more personal side, some reasons include: This is an exceedingly large waste of your time, and it along with your general addiction to the internet is causing serious problems in your life, and has for a very long time. This is also a waste of our time, but for different reasons. Also, the acknowledgement you get, even the negative attention, from the internet is the reason you are addicted to it. That is why you have posted hundreds, literally hundreds of stupid threads on this forum alone. It's like sticking a needle in your arm. This is a drug. And drugs are bad for you.
Posting here about your ideas also does not help you to accomplish anything. If you were more highly motivated, or competent, or mature, it might help you. But this is not helping you, it is making things worse. It is giving you a sense of accomplishment you have not earned- again, that's just all about your addiction. That's why you play mmorpgs, post here, post other places, complain, talk about your web comic, follow politics only *just* enough to have a rough opinion on things, dabble in cultures only just enough to seriously misunderstand things, talk about your family, bring up your problems even though you know the mature thing to do would be deal with them in the ways you desperately don't want to, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I no longer think much of you. There was a time when I thought that might change, but now I know it probably never will. So, indeed, there we go.
I haven't played maybe more then 10 hour in total of any combination of MMORPGs this past month (Dec).
But aside from that I'm fairly certain you won't listen to me whatever I say or do, so maybe someone else, probably JanitorBlade should talk to you instead.
But I won't stop posting here, I won't stop working on my story(ies), and I won't stop working on adding Russian related things into my work.
Since clearly continuing to do these things and succeeding at them will ultimately be the best way clearly to annoy you since you care so much about this like the loveable cuddly lil' snowflake you are.
You still have yet to define Blayne moment or how a Russian alchemist gaining power from sucking breast milk to power his alchemy through Orthodox Russian faith can reach mainstream success as an anime in Japan but somehow high school students fighting Lovecraftian Horrors with 1 character being Russian somehow can't.
Clearly there's a demographic for anything.
So c'mon, I dare you go through my ideas one by one and show me what's objectionable, c'mon if you have a point to prove do so.
And no I'm totally not trying to trick you to providing constructive criticism at all.
I just simply know you can't and would be say 5$ that your incapable of doing so.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
HAH! Well if you can't win, just complain to somebody else. A winning strategy buddy.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
So you object to me reporting your breach of the ToS and blatant personal attacks? Well good day sir!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
This is an Actual Anime That Is Successful on Mainstream TV
quote: The story chronicles the school lives of Mafuyu Oribe and Tomo Yamanobe at the Japanese Eastern Orthodox school St. Mihailov Academy where they have endured persecution and ostracization from the other students led by the daughter of the current dean Miyuri Tsujidou and her second-in-command Hana Katsuragi. Mafuyu and Tomo's lives take a drastic turn when they nurse the silver-haired Russian-born Aleksander "Sasha" Nikolaevich Hell back to health upon encountering him unconscious during their home commute one day. Almost immediately, Sasha begins to repay Mafuyu and Tomo's humanitarianism as he repels their tormentors; unfortunately, this does not change Sasha's prologue as a throw-away Qwaser from the Adepts and that the Adepts have no qualms about making an absolute war zone of the Academy in order to acquire the Theotokos of Tsarytsin from Athos who wishes to keep the icon's existence a secret from the world.
Athos -- an espionage and special operations agency of the Eastern Orthodox Church not unlike the CIA or the FBI in the United States and even Interpol whose alpha objective is to prevent the Theotokos of Tsarytsin from becoming global community discourse. The inception of the series depicts the Iron Qwaser Aleksander "Sasha" Nikolaevich Hell performing this function alongside his Maria Magdalen partner Teresa.
Maria Magdalen -- designation given to the alter-ego combat partner of a Qwaser whose primary function is to provide soma not unlike how one may refuel a car or even a warplane while in flight. In the series, Sasha and Ekaterina each demonstrate that the relationship between a Qwaser and its Maria Magdalen can vary on the spectrum of being purely professional to very personal.
Qwaser -- any of the anthropoid beings who possess supernatural powers affording them utility over a single chemical element. This specialized utility can vary widely in quality between different Qwasers and even under different circumstances; in order to maintain this specialized utility, it is necessary for a Qwaser to always have an adequate supply of soma.
Soma -- the sacred substance that fuels a Qwaser's elemental powers especially in battle. Whenever a Qwaser is replenishing its soma by breastfeeding from a nubile maiden, the Qwaser is draining away the maiden's life force through the breast milk whose quality and potency can be magnified (or diminished) by the situational emotions of the maiden not unlike how coffee or tea is sometimes modified by adding cream or sugar. The personality of the quarry maiden also plays a role as well; although in the case of very childlike maidens like Tomo, this ends up working to the Qwaser's detriment. Even then, the perspective is that the benefits are worth the risk since Ekaterina tries to capitalize upon Hana's sadomasochism for this reason.
Theotokos of Tsarytsin -- the legendary icon depicting the Virgin Mary breastfeeding an infant Jesus fabled to alter the homeostasis of the world.
Twelve Adepts -- a religious sect whose leadership comprises thirteen Qwasers whose alpha objective is to acquire the Theotokos of Tsarytsin in order to purify what they see as pollution in the world using the secrets of the Sacred Mysteries. The Adepts' ancillary beta objective is to accumulate a huge reserve of high-quality soma by kidnapping nubile maidens and torturing them into becoming human storage tanks. Sasha's vendetta with the Adepts lies in their gamma ancillary objective of manufacturing high-level Qwasers through barbaric and medieval practices.
I mean, for as long as my above ideas are aimed at principally anime fans for most and former Tom Clancy fans for the first one how can they be bad ideas?
Ideas can't be bad, ideas I think are impossible to be bad, only execution which say as you will isn't "set in stone" until I write and post something, and if my feedback from the Hatrack Writing forum says anything its that sure a few things need work but quite a few people were interested in my rough draft to offer helpful suggestions.
Welcome to Hatrack, you are wrong.
I mean, Tom Clancy the most he does is have his Russian characters call each other comrade and say 'yob tvoyu mat' alot which while knowing its supposed meaning and told by a Russian Bulgarian friend of mind that yes it means what it means, most actual russians are confused when I ask them about it.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: So you object to me reporting your breach of the ToS and blatant personal attacks? Well good day sir!
Blatant personal attacks, like calling someone an asshole? Which you edited out of your post later when you realized it wouldn't look good for you if you went crying about me to JB?
Not only a liar, but a coward as well.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Okay, I challenge you to a duel then, choose your weapon of choice, a suitable second to take your place if you yourself cannot go.
Of course you'ld have to come on over to Canada but a triffle when its our honor on the line right?
Of course it's not 'asshole' I edited out but information I got from another source out of trust about you that after about a minute I decided I didn't have the right to divulge even if it would have had a nice effect on your sanity meter.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Oh, I see, well, I don't really have the inclination to do research about you. Glad I'm so fascinating.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You want people divulging things they know about you kiddo? Are you sure you want to go down that road? Because I'm pretty sure I could, were I so inclined, do a little checking of my email from the last few years for a few choice pieces of information.
I won't, of course, because you only said that in an attempt to intimidate me. Trust me. I'm not the one that needs to worry. And I wouldn't, were I you, be the one talking about other people's personal lives.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
As I have no personal life except my hobbies that's not a concern of mine, also, kiddo? What your like 30? You not sufficiently old enough to call me 'kiddo' next thing you know you'll call me a mullet (despite not having one).
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Were I 15 I would still be inclined to call you "kiddo" or "sport," "squirt," "tiger," or "our special little friend."
That's good, now I know how to refer to you, munchkin.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
This is so alarmingly mature!
Seriously though I didn't go to Junior High or High School but TV and Movies have conditioned me to believe this is probably what it would have been like.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Yeah, not dissimilar. Perhaps I should stop teaching. I must be regressing.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Cant imagine howld your students must feel not being able to learn anything.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
It's tough, but they manage.
Sort of like how you manage to type.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh yes, I most definitely massacre the english language by neglecting to put commas! Linguists must be killing themselves en mass.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
This thread has basically descended into primordial goo. I'm locking it.
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It's also not a good way to get them to respond in a positive fashion.
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Sorry!
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