At the risk of furthur derailing another thread...
I was thinking about humans and fear. My in-laws are very paranoid people. They refuse to step foot on a plane, and my mother in-law will not even cross the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. My father in-law actually said and meant that he would never go to Southern California because of some show on killer bees he saw. When I was in Israel they were certain I wouldn't come home, even though the intentional death rate is higher in the US.
I know they are extreme, but they are not alone. I mentioned that people drive death traps on a daily basis, with no fear. The average person WILL have an accident once every 13 years. Many of these people freak at the one plane crash they hear about per year. The one school shooting a decade means we should have metal detectors in all schools. Don't get me started on stranger danger.
Why do humans fear the wrong things?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Evolution.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
My relatives are like that. Perhaps it's media scare stories? Me, I am more scared of people than spiders or snakes.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Evolution.
Yup.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
While it might be accurate, that's kind of like saying "because." Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I read a theory that we evolved living in small, isolated groups, so when we were exposed to a dangerous situation, it was likely something that was actually dangerous to our group, hence we needed to pay attention to it.
Now we frequently hear about things that almost never happen, and they are given excessive and undue importance by the media, by word of mouth, by programs made about killer bees and so on, that we are given the false impression that they are things we should be personally worried about.
We get to see Shark Week, but there's no Hit By A Car in the Parking Lot week.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
"We get to see Shark Week, but there's no Hit By A Car in the Parking Lot week."
I think we do get plenty of exposure to car accidents. I personally witness the aftermath of wrecks a dozen times a year. I think the explanation for why we don't fear cars as much as relatively smaller risks is more to do with necessity, exposure, and a personal sense of control (which may be illusory).
As a side note, I think the general attitude toward car travel is appropriate. The risks are small enough that we shouldn't really fear them more than we do.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I fear cars. I have been in nine car accidents in the last fifteen years. A couple of them scary. I am terrified of cars and think the sum total of human happiness would increase enormously if reliable public transportation were available. It doesn't even have to be cheap - just reliable and convenient.
It's physics and psychology. Cars are Russian roulette.
I still drive. I still do everything. I'm just afraid of it.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I dont like flying because if something goes wrong there is not alot that I can do to survive a crash, but I can drive safely. I also fear robots... and even I think that ones nonsensical.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That makes sense with the way our lizard brains work, but not with statistics or knowledge of cars.
People generally greatly, massively overestimate their own driving skills and their ability to control a situation and 2-ton machine, as well as respond to other 2-ton machines. Our brains evolved in situations where that confidence made sense. That over-confidence and lack of trust in computers does not make sense now.
One of the major arguments against forcing parents of babies to buy seats for a car seat for the babies on airplanes is that it will discourage some families to fly and force at least some families to drive instead. Where some of the babies will die, because cars are death traps and flying is expotentially safer.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Yeah, no one thinks they themselves are a bad driver no matter what thier record says, but I was making the point that I feel safer when I have the wheel or can atleast see whats happening whereas a plane can just drop at a moments notice.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My point is that your lizard brain is telling you that you are safer so you feel safer, but your frontal lobe should be telling you that that feeling of safety is an illusion and you are considerably safer in the air.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The thing to consider with driving is that no matter how safe a driver you are, you can never account for how unsafe everyone else might be,
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I fear cars. I have been in nine car accidents in the last fifteen years. A couple of them scary. I am terrified of cars and think the sum total of human happiness would increase enormously if reliable public transportation were available. It doesn't even have to be cheap - just reliable and convenient.
It's physics and psychology. Cars are Russian roulette.
I still drive. I still do everything. I'm just afraid of it.
That's a lot of accidents. I can understand why that would tend to rule out the kind of feeling of control and safety most people feel when driving.
But: should you still drive? With that kind of accident rate?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I wish we had more stringent driving requirements, and that the courts were more willing to take licenses away from bad drivers, and hand out harsher punishments to those who drive on suspended or revoked licenses.
My grandfather was a terrible driver before he passed away, and we tried to get him to stop driving but it took two accidents before he would give up the car. Fortunately, neither was serious.
We have the ability to limit our exposure to danger, we're often unwilling to do so.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: The thing to consider with driving is that no matter how safe a driver you are, you can never account for how unsafe everyone else might be,
Not strictly true. There are defensive driving courses. If you can see all the cars around you pretty clearly, and you pay attention to them, you're going to drastically reduce your risk of being hit by one at random.
Of course, it's possible for someone to drive their car in such a way that you can't anticipate, but many accidents can be avoided if you drive with your mind on your environment and your options.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I didn't say being a good driver was useless, merely that no matter how safe you are you can't eliminate the risk completely (and while I don't have statistics handy I bet that risk is still higher than being in an airplane.)
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
It is rather inconvenient to take an airplane to the grocery store. Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I fear cars. I have been in nine car accidents in the last fifteen years. A couple of them scary.
Really? My dad has not been in a single accident for nearly forty years, and my mom has been in only 3 accidents within my lifetime (20 years) and none of them were serious. Maybe you should retake the driver's test.
However, I definitely agree that cars are a bad thing for society...in so many ways. 1. So many accidents and deaths - and accidents are terrifying, even if not serious 2. They contribute to global warming 3. They use up our dwindling oil reserves - soon, when the last oil reserves run out and we can't buy food or heat our houses, we'll be wishing for the oil we used to drive to the mall right down the road 4. The stress of sitting in traffic really takes a toll on our mental health and day-to-day happiness 5. Cars are ugly, annoying, loud, and destroy the pleasant feel of many communities and shopping areas - they make walking and jogging unpleasant and dangerous 6. They isolate you from other people 7. They rob you of opportunities to exercise
Just to be fair, I'll make a list of the reasons cars are good: 1. You can go wherever you want, whenever - no waiting, missing the bus, etc 2. You don't have to worry as much about being harmed by strangers 3. Driving can be really fun - when there's no traffic 4. The feeling of autonomy is empowering, and you learn responsibility and independence 5. Convenient when shopping/camping/vacationing, etc
I know the grass always looks greener on the other side, but honestly, I really think I'd prefer to live in a society with no cars. I would be calmer, happier, healthier. I'd probably be 10-15 pounds lighter. I'd probably have more friends - the people you ride the bus with every day, etc. We might not be on the verge of a total environmental catastrophe, as we currently are. Downtown areas would be so much more attractive and pleasant to walk around in. If I could go back in time and stop any event from happening, it would be 1. Henry Ford from making cars affordable to nearly everyone and 2. The national highway system from being built. I truly think this world would be a better place...
That's not to say that we have to get rid of ALL cars... They are certainly good for some people, i.e. those who can't get around easily. But the vast majority of us could do just fine without them.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Getting back to the fear and the role evolution has played, it is my theory that for the vast majority of human history individuals learned two ways--either through experience or through stories told by others. These stories soon spanned generations, bringing successful strategies from previous generations to new ones and allowing the knowledge usable by any single person to expand exponentially from what they could gain with their own existence. You could try to figure out how to survive the local volcano exploding, or you could take information from survivors of the last explosion five generations past.
So we became dependent, perhaps on a genetic level, in using stories and narratives to learn, not logic or statistics. When some one tells us a good story we believe it more than when some scientist shows us numbers.
I have no proof of this theory other than one fact--right this second you are considering it as possible based not on logical proof, but on the narrative it has embedded within it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Tara - I am aware of the situation. Hence, my self-reporting of it. Duh.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I fear cars. I have been in nine car accidents in the last fifteen years. A couple of them scary. I am terrified of cars and think the sum total of human happiness would increase enormously if reliable public transportation were available. It doesn't even have to be cheap - just reliable and convenient.
It's physics and psychology. Cars are Russian roulette.
I still drive. I still do everything. I'm just afraid of it.
Except for the last bit, I agree with katharina.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I still think they should just lay down mag-lev track and have small 1 or 2 person vehicles that travel at super high speeds along the tracks. It would be safe, there would be no wrecks, it would be cheap, and would be good for the environment. Sure the initial time investment would be there, but eventually it would end up saving time and money.
Plus, what would be better than traveling at 100 mph to work without ever having to stop? Just get in, type in the address you want to go (you could save addresses on a card or something you put into the vehicle when you enter) and whoosh! Off you go!
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
How would that be cheap?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Cities should develop better walking and public transit routs, and far fewer people should be allowed to drive. That would solve many of the problems. Sadly, most people are unwilling to give up driving, no matter how bad at it they are, or how many accidents they cause.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Cities should develop better walking and public transit routs, and far fewer people should be allowed to drive. That would solve many of the problems. Sadly, most people are unwilling to give up driving, no matter how bad at it they are, or how many accidents they cause.
We would have to move out of the suburbs and back into the city for it to work. Otherwise you would still have to drive to the bus or train stop.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think that's something we should be doing anyway, but lord knows nobody is going to actually do it.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
The question for most U.S. cities at this point is "How?" Cities like Atlanta simply weren't designed - nor have they expanded - with mass public transit in mind. Not that legislators here are seriously considering possibilities anyway. But even if they were, what can be done, and how would it be paid for?
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