FYI: They're calling 11th Doctor's run as "Series One" for whatever reason so thats the name of the thread.
Single. Best. Most Awesome. Episode. Ever, for all time that ever was or ever will happen.
Matt Smith has managed in a single episode encapsulate everything there is to love and find awesome about The Doctor and why we watch the show.
That. Just that.
[ April 04, 2010, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I don't care what they're calling it. Real people are going to call it Series/Season 5.
But yes. It was lovely, and so good to see all the familiar things back with a new gloss on them. I liked the story as well - not so much the main story as the relationship between Amy and the Doctor - there was something there that seemed right somehow.
But for me it's always his dialogue that makes the Doctor and that was perfect of course. Somewhere between Ford Prefect (from the books, obviously) and Einstein is the place to aim at. Matt Smith has also noticed the importance of having a distinctive manner of speaking (in his case, a bit over-ly en-un-ci-ated as if he's giving a lecture and needs to be heard at the back of the hall).
Nice.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I sometimes wonder how a little British man can appear so badass.
David Tennant pulled it off. And so does Matt Smith.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its the bowtie.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I was skeptical for ages after they announced the new kid, but he's really good. As Harriet Jones, Prime Minister, said: Absolutely the same man. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was skeptical as well but he has me convinced. Only time will tell how he will stack up when compared to the rest, but I'm excited about the new season and the new companion.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I loved it -- very much looking forward to the rest of the season. Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Does the new Companion remind you of Felicia Day? Like, a lot?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Although... Karen Gillan, Felicia Day. Nah. But Amy does remind me of someone. I just can't think who...
I still miss Tennant. But this one is good.
Didn't the nurse guy Rory look a little like a young John Simms, though?
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I got a bit sniffly when they played the reel of all the past Doctors and David Tennant was there; though actually what made me saddest was seeing the TARDIS all newly designed.
Overall v. good. I love it that Amy comes from a small town where EVERYONE knows about the raggedy Doctor. My only thing was that I'd just watched "The Girl in the Fireplace", and the little girl scenario was a bit too similar to that for me.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
There are very few things that make me squeal like a little girl, and a new season of Doctor Who is one of them.
"I am definitely a madman with a box"
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: There are very few things that make me squeal like a little girl, and a new season of Doctor Who is one of them.
Agreed!
And in this case, I've been waiting for almost 2 years. I'm afraid last year's specials didn't do it for me. Just think, for the next several months there will be a new episode of Doctor Who each and every week.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: [qb] There are very few things that make me squeal like a little girl, and a new season of Doctor Who is one of them.
Agreed!
And I'm a 260-pound man Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: There are very few things that make me squeal like a little girl, and a new season of Doctor Who is one of them.
"I am definitely a madman with a box"
Yeah, but who didn't realize that he was going to say that?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: There are very few things that make me squeal like a little girl, and a new season of Doctor Who is one of them.
"I am definitely a madman with a box"
Yeah, but who didn't realize that he was going to say that?
Its the lead up though that made it awesome.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
they should make up their minds Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I liked it, didn't love it. I guessed at several things in the episode which doesn't usually happen for me: the TARDIS landing sideways that it had been many years (yes, Madame Pompadour) each time that the next day was her wedding that last line about being crazy with a box
Ah well. Still looking forward to new episodes every week. Silly cybermen and daleks again this season.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I did see the lapse in years and the wedding day thing coming, but it didn't make it less compelling to me.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: I don't care what they're calling it. Real people are going to call it Series/Season 5.
Season 32.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:Originally posted by JonHecht:
Season 32.
31 Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Did anyone else notice the Doctor had an image of the crack in Amy's wall on his TARDIS monitor? And then he switched it off casually. Hurrah for continuing plotlines!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Did anyone else notice the Doctor had an image of the crack in Amy's wall on his TARDIS monitor? And then he switched it off casually. Hurrah for continuing plotlines!
That's what that was!
Thanks. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Not quite, he tapped the console a few times in thought.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
Yeah, just watched it. Yeah. Awesome. It'll take me a few episodes to get used to the new doctor, but I'm looking forward to it. Especially with the spoiler preview at the end.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
So far, I don't care much for the new Doctor Who. How could anyone equal David Tennant in that role? Tennant was also effective as Barty Crouch Jr. in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
I hate to say it, but I'm with Ron. I don't think any one can replace Tennant for me. Then again - Eccleston was my first Doctor, and when Tennant replaced him I said much the same thing. Tennant won me over pretty quick. But then Eccleston lasted one season and Tennant lasted, what? Three? Four?
I dunno, I'll give the new guy a chance, but I think Tennant will always have a special place in my heart.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
Three and a half, by my count. Last season counts as a half, since they did, what, 4 specials, each lasting 50% more than a normal episode, so 6 episodes' worth, half a season.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: I hate to say it, but I'm with Ron. I don't think any one can replace Tennant for me. Then again - Eccleston was my first Doctor, and when Tennant replaced him I said much the same thing. Tennant won me over pretty quick. But then Eccleston lasted one season and Tennant lasted, what? Three? Four?
I dunno, I'll give the new guy a chance, but I think Tennant will always have a special place in my heart.
I'll be honest, it took me at least half a season to get into Tennant. Then again, I was new to the whole thing when I watched it with Eccleston and didn't realize until the season finale (when my husband, who had seen earlier Doctor Who's), told me about the regenerating thing. I was pretty uspet because I liked Eccleston a lot and had really just gotten into him when this other Doctor came into the role and, IMO, was pretty different.
I actually still like Eccleston slightly better than Tennant....just a smidge...they were both very good in the end. Maybe that's why I'm ok with the new guy.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I think the new guy is going to do well in the roll, but I don't think that he'll own the character the way first Tom Baker and then Tennant did.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I had an easier time adjusting to the new Doctor, mostly because of Ten's story. I miss Tennant, but Ten himself was ready to change, despite not wanting to go. When Nine rejenerated, it was an outrage and felt just wrong, but when Ten rejenerated, it was almost a relief - he was so unhappy towards the end there. He never really recovered from losing Rose.
I'm happy for the Doctor, now that he's Eleven. A fresh start.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I agree, katharina. The story really did make it time for him to go. Which doesn't mean I didn't enjoy him while he was there.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Apparently Steven Moffat has answered some questions before they are asked, in Doctor Who magazine:
quote: 1) Because it's a time machine, dummy. 2) Because the structural damage alluded to in the opening scenes has caused a certain amount of leakage. Yes, leakage. Shut up, it's all planned, you wait til episode 12. 3) Ah! Ah! But where in the episode does it say it's the second time? No, see, it doesn't. So nyer. In fact, the use of the word "keep" in scene 23 would suggest that it isn't the second time. Yeah not so smart now are you? Ha!
He's such a tease.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah kat, I agree. On sake, plaid said:
quote:Watching Eleven and young Amelia talk about her aunt, and Eleven saying how glad he is not to have an aunt... that made me realize, yeah, he's definitely not Ten. Ten would've looked sad and said, "I had an aunt once"; Eleven's not weighed down by the loss, and didn't mind glossing over that loss for Amelia's sake.
I liked that comment quite a bit. Ten was really weighted down with loss past the point where he was capable of recovering from it. As you said, despite the fact that he didn't want to regenerate, it had become necessary for the character to do so.
Actually, has there ever been a doctor other than 10 whose story drew to a close like that, where it felt like the character needed to regenerate? I can't think of one, but I don't know that much about some of the incarnations.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Justin says the 5th doctor (Peter Davidson) was like that, where in the last season of his three he got defeatist and sullen.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The Fifth Doctor was kind of tragic, particularly towards the end. But he had good reason for it. So did the Tenth, for that matter.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I saw a lot of the early and mid-run Peter Davidson episodes, but my PBS station never showed the end of his arc.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The last ep I saw before the 9th Doctor was the one where the Fifth Doctor regenerated.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Did anyone else notice the Doctor had an image of the crack in Amy's wall on his TARDIS monitor? And then he switched it off casually. Hurrah for continuing plotlines!
That's what that was!
Thanks.
If you do it frame by frame you seem some neat pictures.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
I was wondering what all that was. Time for frame by frame.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I really liked the second episode, but my boyfriend wasn't so keen on it.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Yes it was good. A bit predictable, though.
And SPOILER! * * * * Reminded me of the Ood with that tortured brain. What are they going to feed the whale on now? Are they going to have to ask for volunteers? How could the whale hear the screaming children on Earth when there's no air in space?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
SPOILER
telepathy?
I bet it can eat fruit Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Interesting. I thought it was pretty bad (or, just not any good). Too fast-paced and random. Too unbelievable (what, the Doctor knew all about the solar flares, but not the space whale?)
Interesting though that other folks liked it, usually my take on what a good DW story is tends to gibe with other folks'. (Except Father's Day. Hated that one, where lots of others loved it.)
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Well, I enjoyed the episode while I was watching it. But now I've had time to process it - More SPOILERS... * * * * *
If they had been riding the whale for at least three hundred years, and at no point did the whale ever eat a child - why on earth were they still trying to feed it kids every day? You'd think they would have realised by now.
You'd also think that people would have noticed that the punished kids kept coming back from the dungeon (unless they just stuck them in cages until they turned 16, voted and became edible). So why was the girl so upset about the little boy?
Amy's Scottish, the Scots have their own ship which is somewhere else far away in space, she's over a thousand years old and the computer doesn't ring any warning bells? In a police state?
If you go into a room to vote, watch the video and then forget having watched it, or pressing the forget button, how does anyone know that they really voted at all?
Britain is really so hopeless that every other country in the world, even random places like Belgium and Fiji had their own spaceships - with proper engines - to escape on, but Britain decided to die in screaming agony instead (until the whale turned up). Not sure they deserve to survive, really. And they could build a massive space-station city, but not any kind of motor?
Why does the ship need to keep travelling? Are they going to find another planet? Why doesn't the Doctor just lasso them to the TARDIS and take them somewhere nice? We saw him do this with the entire Earth one time.
Nobody old ever mentioned to Liz (who seemed to know people on the street well) that she had been around when they were kids?
And if you have a mask which is an exact copy of your face (and wear your hair in your usual style), it's not much of a disguise, is it?
How does Amy know that the Doctor is very, very old? Did he tell her at some point? I can't remember. Because he has a time-ship, so his not ageing in her timeline isn't surprising. * * * * I know I'm over-thinking it, but I guess not much about this episode made any sense at all.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Firstly its not for sure that the Spaceship UK has been dystopian for all 300 years.
The punished kids it would appear are kept in the Tower of London where they are probably raised to become members of the Secret Police.
Amy is still on record as a British citizen she also doesn't LIVE in Scotland she lives in a rural English town and moved there when her parents kicked the bucket.
And no warning bells because who the hell would actually set up a contingency "hrrm what if we get any time travelers in the voting booth?"
Nextly, its obvious that everyone records a video of themselve voting so they know that they did vote.
Strange but there might be a reason why UK didn't have the ability or couldn't in the time given build a sufficient engine in time, for example China, US the EU, Russia, Brazil, India are concievably wealthy enough in the future to build their own spaceships and be large enough to carry their neighbours as well.
UK probably just lucked out.
The Tardis required 6 people to fly to move a planet and maybe it only works on celestial objects the actual size of planets? Also they need to not only find an Earth like planet but one not already claimed by space monsters or other aliens and not within the sphere of influence of anyone else.
Perception filter?
"How does Amy know that the Doctor is very, very old? Did he tell her at some point? I can't remember. Because he has a time-ship, so his not ageing in her timeline isn't surprising. "
His eyes. She can tell by starring into his eyes confirmed by comparing him to the space whale.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
the mask is shaped like her on the inside, not outside.
the whole outfit is probably not much of a disguise, though.
quote:His eyes. She can tell by starring into his eyes confirmed by comparing him to the space whale.
haha. I like that.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I don't see much use in picking apart the logistical inconsistencies in Doctor Who. It's a fun kid's show that usually tries to convey a thought-provoking message. You could spend a lifetime picking it apart (or defending it) if you wanted. I like the silly, campy stuff (that doesn't always make sense).
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I'm shocked the Doctor was going to do that thing to the beast below. SHOCKED. The starship wasn't all of humanity, it was just all of Britain. I mean it'd be a shame if Britain was over with, but it wouldn't be the end of humankind.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Just got around to watching last night and I basically agree with everything Bella said. My husband liked the episode, but it didn't work for me on a lot of levels. Not that Doctor Who is known for plausibility, but even for Doctor Who, this left a lot of gaping holes.
Honestly, I came away from it rethinking my optimism about the new series, but I figure that's probably a bit too harsh.
Posted by Jenos (Member # 12168) on :
As someone who has never seen anything of Doctor Who, what do I have to do to get started on this massive series?
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I agreed with Bella too, but one bad episode isn't enough to dim my optimism. There were plenty of Tennant episodes that were as bad as this one was, and some that were worse, but that didn't stop Tennant from becoming *my* Doctor in a way that nobody had managed since Tom Baker.
:: laugh :: I initially wrote "Tom Davidson" there and had to go back and fix it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Jenos: Series One, First episode, with Christopher Eccleston as the Doctor.
If that too far back, you can start with Series Two, Christmas special, "The Christmas Invasion".
Starting anytime after that will be confusing.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Or, you can start with the current series, episode one - it's a good introduction. You won't get most of the reviews because they'll talk about the past, but the show itself will make sense.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
Kat's right. I'd start with Eccleston, but if you don't want to sit through 4 seasons, this is not a bad place to start.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've only ever watched the current series, beginning with Eccleson. I've never seen any classic Doctor Who.
Netflix has them all, and series 1 (2005??) is even available for instant viewing. It may take a couple of episodes to get into it.
Posted by Jenos (Member # 12168) on :
So I can just start with the relatively new series(the one that started in 2005) and I don't need to catch up on the 40 odd years of Doctor Who before it, then?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jenos: So I can just start with the relatively new series(the one that started in 2005) and I don't need to catch up on the 40 odd years of Doctor Who before it, then?
Definitely!
In fact, I tried to watch some of the older episodes and didn't really like them. Of course, I might have started with the wrong ones...
All the relevant history is woven into the new series. You don't need to know anything else.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
The older ones definitely have a different feeling to them. A little more philosophical, a little less action oriented. And, of course, they were made in different decades, which all have their own... flavor.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
John Pertwee would take umbrage at the "a little less action oriented". Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
Uggh. I am seriously underwhelmed with the third episode. Bahh...
Nothing seems to fit. The show seems to be degressing with each episode-- a hodgepodge of good ideas with bad dialogue, acting, and a script that feels a need to spell out everything in a 1st grade manner. Episode One offered so much hope.
The stories seem forced--like we are being forced to hurry to different plot points the writers think are cool at the expense of enjoyable characters. I think seeing the crack in the last two episodes says a lot about the style of series 5.
Nothing subtle. I almost feel insulted, like I am too dumb as an audience to figure out figure out any and every scene. It just seems so in-your-face, fast, and undeveloped. I'm at a loss of words.
Next episode has one of my favorite bad guys and River. If they screw it up I will be ready to write off series 5.
/end rant
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Dalek episodes always bore me.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It was pretty awful. First, we get to see the Doctor having a temper tantrum. Then we get the new and "improved" Dalek Power Rangers.
Honestly, the Tenth Doctor refused to wipe out the Daleks, even at the cost of Earth, and was horrified when the Half Doctor did so. One regeneration later, and he's willing to obliterate them all even at the risk of destroying Earth? It just isn't plausible.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I dunno, Lisa. Have you seen the original show? The first doctor is a crotchety *******. It just doesn't seem plausible that he goes from that to Ten. I don't think the number of regenerations between personality is relevant--there is no transition, merely a different personality. Which makes one wonder whether the doctor in one form shares identity with the doctor in another.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I see the cries of "RUINED FOREVER" are going strong.
Yes Ten was mad at the prospect of causing Genocide but he was slightly influenced by events of 'Daleks of Manhattan' thinking he might be able to reason with them or reprogram them.
He's probly mellowed since then understanding that yeah, Daleks just can't be allowed to roam free and slaughter the cosmos Ten was overweighed by the guilt of causing the death of the Time Lords Eleven doesn't have that baggage and knows what must be done.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I think early in the season, the ninth doctor would have wiped out the Dalek's if he had a choice (though not if it took out humanity to do so). And obviously, whatever 8 or 9 (we don't know when that regeneration occurred) did wiped out almost all daleks at the cost of the rest of the time lords.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Ehh. The show's good . . . great even. The problem is that it's too "old Who".
The new episodes are drenched in "old Who" mentality. From the writing to the cinematography to the acting, this is far more akin to the Peter Davidson or Tom Baker eras than to the Eccleston or Tenant. Listen to the theme song -- it's closer to the 80's version than anything.
Unfortunately, this creates two problems: discontent of the "new Who" crowd and the story length. These stores really deserve a longer format, more akin to the "old Who" two, three, or more parters. They're effectively wasting a lot of great ideas due to time constraints.
Really, imagine a Tom Baker rendition of this last episode -- with the budget of the current dalek episode! It would have made a fantastic three parter.
I think that Moffat is really going to shine with the multi-episode story arcs. But then, I guess, we can wait and see.
Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
I've gotten a huge kick out of this season so far. The Daleks go iMac was a hoot and a half.
(Also, I'm still tickled pink over how much the Doctor likes my name. )
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
You know, I want to like this season. I really do. I'm trying to think positive... But this has been two weeks of blah episodes. I haven't been this disappointed in the show since the farting Aliens of London (so I know it can still get better ).
Big-butted rainbow-skittle Daleks don't do it for me. And the historian in me wishes that, instead of hugging him, the Doctor would have a chat with Winston about India, Kenya, and the rest of the Empire - and what a bad idea it would be to kill a bunch of people trying hold on to it. But hey. Overthinking again.
There's something very off about Amy, too. She was cute as a little kid, but now I hope we're supposed to dislike/distrust her as much as I do. (Not remembering the Daleks? But she remembers that stupid 'Oi, Churchill!' insurance advert). She seems to be missing something human - maybe she's been replaced by a robot.
This used to be my favourite British TV show. I want it back.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The thing about not remembering the Daleks is deliberate, to show evidence that something is "very" wrong with the Universe.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Yes, that was made very clear.
But Amy just seems bizarre - and not only because it seems like every time since the first episode, she's been cleverer than the Doctor (even Churchill almost thinks so). The Doctor, who has wandered about trying to brain-damage harmless animals, nearly got the world destroyed hitting Daleks with spanners and opening his big mouth, and then nearly allowing London to get blown up by a massive bomb which took about half an hour to arm (because there were no other options - hello, spaceship/teleport/screwdriver/anything).
And she knows everything about the Doctor, where he'll go, what he'll do, what he should do...
In this episode, Amy completely saves the day by calmly ordering up the space planes, defusing the bomb, rescuing the Doctor's keys and cheering him up (while the Doctor sort of flaps about looking confused and shouting). She probably could have defeated the Daleks, too, if she had seen them before.
I wonder who she really is. Because, if she's human, I want to know who's stolen the Doctor's brain.
Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
I watched the first new episode with my friends, andreally liked it! Are most episodes that fun, or was it special because it was the premier? Right now I'm planning on watching this season and just asking my friends any questions I have about the story.
But the main part I liked about what I've seen is the sillyness.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
You mean you watched the plastic people episode? That one's pretty representative of the first season.
Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
plastic people? I watched the new one out in the USA i think.
When Jeff saves the world with his laptop.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Ah, you're referring to the current season. Plastic people occurred in the first season.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
Ah the newest season. OK. That's still... up in the air. There's usually some amount of silliness. I'd say usually not quite that much.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Well first things first campanions generally are supposed to be major contributors to solving the days problems and not just being TheWatson, I like it this way. If your right then there's some subtle foreshadowing going on.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
The criticism is interesting. It's funny that people weren't more critical when the Master was flying through the air and shooting lightning bolts out of his hands.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:But the main part I liked about what I've seen is the sillyness.
That is my favorite part as well.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
This weekend should be a good episode. Moffat, Weeping Angels, River Song... that's a lot of strong ingredients.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: The criticism is interesting. It's funny that people weren't more critical when the Master was flying through the air and shooting lightning bolts out of his hands.
I didn't like that much either.
Actually, I didn't particularly care for any of the specials shown last year.
I liked the first episode of this season but I just watched the most recent one (yes, I'm a bit behind) and I'm afraid this season may not be working out for me either.
I'll give it more chances...I really will...but there's something off about it.
I'm not sure about Amy. She seems to know more than she should know, and not just in the way Bella was suggesting. She seems to know things about the Doctor, like that he's very old. She seems to really know him and while I get that she ran into him for the first time when she was eight, she didn't get a lot of information from him at that time. Realistically, she should still be getting to know him in the same way that the other three companions did at first. Yet there already seems to be an intimacy between the two of them that I can't quite justify with the whole imaginary friend thing.
Posted by Raventhief (Member # 9002) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Actually, I didn't particularly care for any of the specials shown last year.
I liked The Next Doctor. The rest were meh.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: She seems to know things about the Doctor, like that he's very old. She seems to really know him and while I get that she ran into him for the first time when she was eight, she didn't get a lot of information from him at that time. Realistically, she should still be getting to know him in the same way that the other three companions did at first. Yet there already seems to be an intimacy between the two of them that I can't quite justify with the whole imaginary friend thing.
Absolutely. If she doesn't turn out to be psychic or someone who has known him before somehow, I'm going to be very annoyed about this. It feels like we have missed a few episodes of development in their relationship. It's especially odd, because she knows everything about him, but he doesn't (and we don't) really know anything about her - nothing of her family, her interests, her current employment, not even who she's marrying - it's been two years since we knew anything about her. I'm just trying to hold out hope that Amy really is meant to be important somehow - that she's not just a Mary-Sue.
As for the specials - I hated the lightning hands and the flying and the skeletor thing. However, the failings of that story doesn't do anything to improve the state of this last episode.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
What did she know that would make her "psychic"? She seemed as clueless as Churchill.
It is a kids show, after all. From the time of Hartnell, it's been the job of the companions to solve the mysteries. You can't just have an omnipotent Doctor do EVERYTHING. He's the most intelligent being in the universe, but he picks his companions because they're clever . . . sometimes all the intelligence in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans against imagination and common sense.
Still, other than being particularly precocious, empathetic, and clever, I can't think of one instance where she's displayed knowledge that she shouldn't have.
As far as familiarity, she has been dreaming about the Doctor most of her life. Whether she knows him or not, she will think she knows him. He's been a core part of her childhood memory. He's HER raggety Doctor.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
When did he ever tell her how old he was?
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My theory on her and the dr was that they interacted heavily while he was transforming. In a way, they both hit the other at a formulative time and maybe influenced as well. With all that energy and life force stuff floating about, it could happen. Her raggety Dr could be who he really is.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Lisa,
The Doctor talked about his new face and body, his new tongue. He blew magic gold-dust smoke out in front of her, and he talked about his new body not being "done". Maybe a little confusing for her at the time, I'll give you that. But then he went into his speach to the Atraxi, and the eye showed the different faces of the Doctor -- as he stated how he was the protector of mankind and all.
She had two years to puzzle it out. I don't think that the conclusion of him being "old" is completely out of reach.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I loved Waters of Mars from last year. I hope it wins the Hugo - RTD deserves it for that one.
Planet of the Dead can fall into the fiery pit for all I care.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Lisa,
Also, you questioned the plausibility of the Doctor wanting to destroy the daleks? He basically sacrificed his own race to destroy them, didn't he? Eccleston would have wiped them out a thousand times over. So would the second Doctor (this episode was an homage to the first dalek ep' that the second Doctor did).
I think people are being overly critical. It's still a better show than about anything else . . . other than Lost, that is.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Also, you questioned the plausibility of the Doctor wanting to destroy the daleks? He basically sacrificed his own race to destroy them, didn't he?
Not really. He intentionally locked the Time Lords away because they'd become corrupted.
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Eccleston would have wiped them out a thousand times over. So would the second Doctor (this episode was an homage to the first dalek ep' that the second Doctor did).
How was it an homage?
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: I think people are being overly critical. It's still a better show than about anything else . . . other than Lost, that is.
Maybe. I still don't like the Dalek Power Rangers. Next thing, they'll be taking away the plungers and egg wisks.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: My theory on her and the dr was that they interacted heavily while he was transforming. In a way, they both hit the other at a formulative time and maybe influenced as well. With all that energy and life force stuff floating about, it could happen. Her raggety Dr could be who he really is.
So she's the Doctor-Amy? I don't think so.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I think it is as simple as them wanting to tell a story but the story needed them to have a relationship/chemistry/understanding of each other, so the writers are just expediting the process for the sake of story flow.
I don't read anything into it.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I loved Waters of Mars from last year. I hope it wins the Hugo - RTD deserves it for that one.
Planet of the Dead can fall into the fiery pit for all I care.
Waters of Mars was definitely the best of last year's episodes, and Planet of the Dead was pretty horrible, it's true. The Doctor Who episode since the 2005 relaunch that I'd most like to nominate for a Hugo, though, would be Midnight. Man, that was an interesting episode, and felt more like real science fiction than pretty much any other episode made in the last five years.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Also, you questioned the plausibility of the Doctor wanting to destroy the daleks? He basically sacrificed his own race to destroy them, didn't he?
Not really. He intentionally locked the Time Lords away because they'd become corrupted.
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Eccleston would have wiped them out a thousand times over. So would the second Doctor (this episode was an homage to the first dalek ep' that the second Doctor did).
How was it an homage?
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: I think people are being overly critical. It's still a better show than about anything else . . . other than Lost, that is.
Maybe. I still don't like the Dalek Power Rangers. Next thing, they'll be taking away the plungers and egg wisks.
No the Doctor literally did wipe out the Time Lords HE DID IT, he killed them with The Moment, no iffs or buts the Time Lock wasn't his doing, in fact he ended the Time Lock effectivelly once he wiped out both sides, he was willing to do this because the Time Lords had become monstrous as the Daleks.
Eleven is able to wipe them out again because he nolonger has the guilt and baggage over what he did.
Nine was outraged at the Daleks and seeing one still alive and kicking was a slap to the face.
Ten mellowed a little and proceeded to the next stage as it were of grief, a combination of guilt and denial and a willingness to go to extremes to try to save the Daleks if they could be redeemed in their pitiable state.
Eleven has evolved past that, even if they could be redeemed its not worth sacrificing people for.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
My theory?
SPOILER For Theory Exposition!
I think this whole season is taking place in an alternate universe, explaining the whole Crack-in-Time thing. Remember at the end of the first episode this season, where, for just a moment, Amy closed her eyes and flashed back to her young self, who was in the process of hearing the Doctor's Box return? Then Amy woke up in her bed. But this Amy, like people are pointing out, has no memory of the Daleks/Stolen Planet, etc. I think the big reveal of this season is that during the tumultuous regeneration period, the Doctor slipped into another time-stream. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: My theory?
SPOILER For Theory Exposition!
I think this whole season is taking place in an alternate universe, explaining the whole Crack-in-Time thing. Remember at the end of the first episode this season, where, for just a moment, Amy closed her eyes and flashed back to her young self, who was in the process of hearing the Doctor's Box return? Then Amy woke up in her bed. But this Amy, like people are pointing out, has no memory of the Daleks/Stolen Planet, etc. I think the big reveal of this season is that during the tumultuous regeneration period, the Doctor slipped into another time-stream.
Which will allow them to retcon out everyone on Earth knowing about aliens. Giving Moffat a brand new slate. That acually makes a lot of sense.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Lisa,
It had similarities to a few Patrick Troughton episodes:
- In Power of the Daleks, the daleks claim to serve the colony. They repeatedly say "We are your servants." << Queue the "We are your soldiers.>> - When the Doctor says the line about wanting to see the "final end" of the daleks, he's quoting an exact line from Terry Nation's Troughton story "The Evil of the Daleks".
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: My theory?
SPOILER For Theory Exposition!
I think this whole season is taking place in an alternate universe, explaining the whole Crack-in-Time thing. Remember at the end of the first episode this season, where, for just a moment, Amy closed her eyes and flashed back to her young self, who was in the process of hearing the Doctor's Box return?
I have a similar theory. I think the Doctor has an out of sequence relationship with Amy. The flash back to young Amy hearing the Doctor's Box return foreshadows that. He doesn't remember it because it hasn't happened for him yet. Something traumatic has happened, likely due to the cracks in the University, so she doesn't remember it either. It would explain why she seems to know so much about the doctor and became so obsessed with him as a child, yet doesn't remember the Daleks.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: the cracks in the University
The ones which mean that the library is about to collapse into the lake because the architect didn't take into account the weight of all those books?
Or didn't anyone else have that urban legend? Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
I have not seen a single episode this year, but from these descriptions I have one idea...
Amy is about to marry the Doctor.
She runs off with the earlier Doctor because she knows that he'll need her to become the Doctor who marries her.
Sure, he's a later version of the same doctor, but, well Time is this wambly pambly wringy stringy thing that...
End of this companions run--Amy will refuse to go through with this marriage, leaving the heart broken doctor even more depressed.
She will, secretly, have his child--though possibly with no sex having officially occurred between them.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
And then she'll turn out to have been River Song all along.
Interesting, but unlikely. Besides, the Doctor seems to have done the marriage thing (Queen Elizabeth I) quite recently. And he's bad at weddings, especially his own.
I love the idea of a recon though - I don't see how the story could continue if aliens were just part of everyday life. I mean, Donna didn't notice the disasters and general weirdness, but everyone else was starting to get a bit blasé. I wonder what the time stream difference would mean for Captain Jack, though, if he shows up again.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Brrr, that most recent episode was a bit good. That scene with Amy watching the video of the angel was very, very good. Still do not care for River Song - I don't hate her when she's interacting with Amy, but I find her bossiness with the Doctor annoying. I can't wait for next week!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Makes me want to go back and watch Blink again. Tennant was so good.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: I have not seen a single episode this year, but from these descriptions I have one idea...
Amy is about to marry the Doctor.
She runs off with the earlier Doctor because she knows that he'll need her to become the Doctor who marries her.
Sure, he's a later version of the same doctor, but, well Time is this wambly pambly wringy stringy thing that...
End of this companions run--Amy will refuse to go through with this marriage, leaving the heart broken doctor even more depressed.
She will, secretly, have his child--though possibly with no sex having officially occurred between them.
No she's obviously going to marry her boyfriend from the first episode.
[ April 26, 2010, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Blayne, can you edit that? Please don't spoil episodes that haven't aired yet...
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
That plus the response still constitute an obvious spoiler...
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
The most recent episode was excellent (what a relief!) Completely terrifying. Perfect. I loved the Doctor's irritation with River's know-it-all smugness, and I could see why he likes Amy - she was brave and resourceful and reminded me much more of her younger self. I quite like River as a character, despite her attitude, but I'll be pleased if it turns out that she used to be (or still is) a bit evil.
Just million times better than the last two weeks.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
Agreed absolutely, Bella.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yeah. I was kinda worried how I'd loved everything Moffat had written... and then The Beast Below was pretty bad. This one, though, was back to being his usual level of awesome.
I wonder what River's deal is? Wondering if maybe she's a bounty hunter or somesuch.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Awesome episode, surprised at how much information they're giving us about the end of the universe catastrophe.
And HA! I laugh at your Unresolved Sexual Tension!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Wow... so she's going to wind up killing him. And he knows it, too. Which is why he's glad that time can be changed. I wonder why she's going to do it.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Not necessarily. Doesn't have to be the Doctor. Other possibilities could be Captain Jack, or a (reformed) Master, or somesuch.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Afterall killing the Doctor wouldnt have the side effect of being a criminal act probably and those people didn't seem to recognize them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
No way. The way the soldier guy was so careful not to say who it was and the way she said it was the best man she's ever known made it pretty clear. And the way he was so angry with her after finding out and the way he was so happy that time can be changed... it's definitely him.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
You've been wrong before, the Doctor seems clearly convinced that the destruction of the Universe is because of Amy Pond fancying him (since the date of the explosion matches the date of her wedding).
In fact I would say it is certainly not him is probably the one thing we can be certain of, but what we can say is that its very likely someone very important to the Doctor.
I can bet good money its not the Doctor. Not the way she hangs around him, she doesn't act like someone who killed him in her past and his future.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
I love this quote about the first episode.
quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Apparently Steven Moffat has answered some questions before they are asked, in Doctor Who magazine:
quote: 1) Because it's a time machine, dummy. 2) Because the structural damage alluded to in the opening scenes has caused a certain amount of leakage. Yes, leakage. Shut up, it's all planned, you wait til episode 12. 3) Ah! Ah! But where in the episode does it say it's the second time? No, see, it doesn't. So nyer. In fact, the use of the word "keep" in scene 23 would suggest that it isn't the second time. Yeah not so smart now are you? Ha!
He's such a tease.
It's a lot of fun speculating, but ultimately I bet that Moffat's gonna do complicated stuff that we won't be able to predict.
(And I think that he's gonna keep the River Song stuff complicated, and that it'll be a big long arc for all of Eleven's run, and, heck, maybe she WILL end up being involved in Eleven's eventual death, even if she's not the one to actually kill him.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Good episode...not so much in the details but definitely in the way the arc is shaping up. And when Amy jumped on him at the end...wow.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: No way. The way the soldier guy was so careful not to say who it was and the way she said it was the best man she's ever known made it pretty clear. And the way he was so angry with her after finding out and the way he was so happy that time can be changed... it's definitely him.
I agree, Lisa. I think it's clear that she killed him, and not just because of how the soldier was careful not to tell him. It was also clear at the end when he asked her if she'd killed a good man and she said, "The best."
Plus, he already pointed out that time can be changed.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I noticed the second time around that when the Doctor comes back to talk to Amy in the forest, he's wearing his jacket again. The internets have spotted that the jacket he's got on isn't the one the angels stole, but a different one, the jacket he's wearing in the throw-forward to next week. It's future Doctor from the future coming back to give Amy a cryptic message! (Maybe.)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Which is why he's glad that time can be changed.
I don't know that that's why. The area that he was in when he said that bit about it being possible to rewrite time looked pretty reminiscent of Dårlig Ulv Stranden to me.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
She could always have killed him at his request. I can imagine a million scenarios in which this request might be made.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Agreed.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Which is why he's glad that time can be changed.
I don't know that that's why. The area that he was in when he said that bit about it being possible to rewrite time looked pretty reminiscent of Dårlig Ulv Stranden to me.
I don't know. It seemed more Froval Bice Marba to me.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
It's where he and Rose parted ways.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Ah.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I KNEW IT! I CALLED IT! I said that they really should bring in a mid 20's male to represent the average person and here he is!
YES! Enough of these female only campanions, immortal male supermodels and people who suck and are left behind because they can't handle it.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Uh yeah. Enough of that. Television really suffers from a dearth of young white males.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Next week looks SWEET. I love mindtrip stories. If you die in a dream, you wake up in reality.
Wouldn't it be nice if dying in reality just made you wake up in the dreamworld?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think certain groups of people have a concept for that yes.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I KNEW IT! I CALLED IT! I said that they really should bring in a mid 20's male to represent the average person and here he is!
Women aren't "average people"? Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
They can be but we already had female campanions up the wazoo, it was awfully skewed and I felt that the dynamic has played itself out, Rose as love interest, Donna has Mother/Older Sister, Amy now has Younger Sister/Niece.
We now need a normal average dude so that we the audience can better relate, someone who is sorta the straight man/the only sane man but isn't either a thief or batman.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I thought of Amy as a coquette, honestly, but maybe that's because I find her attractive. And the kissing/trying to have sex with him thing.
Concerning needing the average man, I do not think we need one, and if we do, he is not it. The average man would not have instantly thought that the Tardis was extradimensional, nor is he in his early/mid 20s for that matter. You don't want an average person, you want someone who more closely resembles you. If we really want the average guy, we should pick a 38 year old schlub.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
nowadays the average guy IS me, John Hodgeman says so.
No its definately younger sister/niece thing, that is why the show makes her trying to jump him as seeming as either very wrong or very funny you see it in anime all the time.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:We now need a normal average dude so that we the audience can better relate, someone who is sorta the straight man/the only sane man but isn't either a thief or batman.
Your comments reek of sexism. The "average person" (presuming such a thing exists at all) , would have to be female. There are more women in the world than men.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:We now need a normal average dude so that we the audience can better relate, someone who is sorta the straight man/the only sane man but isn't either a thief or batman.
Your comments reek of sexism. The "average person" (presuming such a thing exists at all) , would have to be female. There are more women in the world than men.
Actually, the average person would have to be a hermaphrodite since while there are a few more women in the world than men, we're not that far off of an even split.
I'm glad we've got this companion for the moment, but not because he's a guy. We've had male companions come and go before (Rose's boyfriend was in a few episodes, as was Captain Jack). In this case, though, I don't get the impression that this guy is particularly average. I hope we get more of his personality as time goes on because in this episode he was largely justifiably jealous, but he did demonstrate moments of intelligence and intuition. The dimensional comment mentioned above was one, and another was his comment that the Doctor puts others in danger because he inspires them to want to impress him. I think (hope) that this guy will turn out to be impressive in his own way.
I don't think he'll turn out to be particularly average, even for a 20-something male. Maybe in looks, but not in ways that matter.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:The "average person" (presuming such a thing exists at all) , would have to be female. There are more women in the world than men.
yes, but the new series had 4 female companions and no steady male ones. I don't think Blayne is sexist wanting to even things out a bit.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Yeah seriously Rabbit, had the show been all female it wouldn't have mattered (ala Lucky*Star) but with the main protagonist being male and an authority figure having all the companions being female or TheChick or if neither superhuman in some way (like c'mon how the heck is Harkness relatable?) got awkward as it persisted.
Not that it affected my enjoyment of the show but looking back it was odd and I am glad for it that we now have someone closer to earth.
I'm looking at this the same way as Stargate Universe with Eli, he's the everydude, Rorry fills the same niche.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
I'm a guy, and I had no trouble identifying with Donna.
I would like to see them have male companions, but mostly just to avoid them overdoing the romantic angle to death.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by plaid: I'm a guy, and I had no trouble identifying with Donna.
I would like to see them have male companions, but mostly just to avoid them overdoing the romantic angle to death.
The quasi sexual tension between the doctor and his companion is a large part of the reason I like the show.
Which isn't to say I would stop watching if there was a male companion, but I'm not sure how the relationship between the Doctor and said companion would work.
Plus, the Doctor is already male.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
It would work like so. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kama:
quote:The "average person" (presuming such a thing exists at all) , would have to be female. There are more women in the world than men.
yes, but the new series had 4 female companions and no steady male ones. I don't think Blayne is sexist wanting to even things out a bit.
I didn't think it was sexist for Blayne to want to see a male companion. I thought it was sexist of him to say the average person would be able to relate to a male companion better than a female companion.
As for balance, the doctor is male. When he has a female companion there is gender balance. If he had only a male companion, there would be no continuing central female character in the show.
The other problem I have with a male companion is that I'm not sure how they would make the relationship between the doctor and his male companion interesting. I'm sure a good writer could find a solution to that but it's not easy.
How many interesting fictional male/male relationships can you think of? Would any of them work well for a long term doctor/companion relationship?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Cap'n Jack and Ianto.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
The brothers on supernatural (probably wouldn't work for doctor). Samwise and Frodo good male/male relationship. The Odd Couple was popular (before my time). Two and a half men does good ratings wise (not one of my shows) and lots of cop movies (Turner and Hooch comes to mind from the 80s but I thought that was a very typical movie with all the stereotypes at the time).
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Ughh. . . . the Doctor shouldn't HAVE sexual tension. He's over 900 years old, for heaven sakes.
Imagine "quasi sexual tension" with William Hartnell or Sylvester McCoy.
That's what I like about Smith. We thought that he'd be the youngest, hippest Doctor ever. It turns out that he's the biggest dork since the reboot.
Good on you, Mr. Moffat. That's how I like my Doctors . . . old, dorky, eccentric, and sexless.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:The other problem I have with a male companion is that I'm not sure how they would make the relationship between the doctor and his male companion interesting.
I think some of the best character interaction on the show was between Wilford Mott and The Doctor. I would have loved to see him as a companion to Tennant. I don't know if he would work as well with Smith--haven't had a chance to see their chemistry, nor can I imagine it.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by lem:
quote:The other problem I have with a male companion is that I'm not sure how they would make the relationship between the doctor and his male companion interesting.
I think some of the best character interaction on the show was between Wilford Mott and The Doctor. I would have loved to see him as a companion to Tennant.
They were amazing. Gut-wrenching and endearing and simply incredible chemistry.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
But I don't know if it could have been sustained.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
It wouldn't have continued exactly like that, but an interesting and sustainable relationship between the two could definitely have developed.
I was kind of let down by Vampires of Venice. If it had come before the two Weeping Angels episodes I'd probably have liked it better, but coming after episodes of that high of quality threw VoV's failings into stark relief. There were bits of dialogue that I loved, and I'm happy with the new companion, but the episode itself just felt like a retread.
I would have been much more excited by a situation in which The Doctor, despite his dislike of her earlier methods, worked with Rosanna to find a solution to the problem that didn't involve either the extinction of their species or the destruction of Venice. Instead it was just the usual "aliens disguised as humans pursuing their own nefarious ends, only to be thwarted by The Doctor"
Next week's episode looks like it could be all sorts of fun, though.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jake: I would have been much more excited by a situation in which The Doctor, despite his dislike of her earlier methods, worked with Rosanna to find a solution to the problem that didn't involve either the extinction of their species or the destruction of Venice. Instead it was just the usual "aliens disguised as humans pursuing their own nefarious ends, only to be thwarted by The Doctor"
He gave everyone chances. Nine gave the Slitheen a chance, even though they wanted to destroy the entire world, and not just Venice. Ten gave the freaking Daleks a chance when they were trying to destroy everyone in the universe. Eleven doesn't even agonize for a moment over the alien fish bugs.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Actually he did, he tried to keep her from jumping off the dock.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Do you think they'll ever show the swimming pool in the new Tardis?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Best episode so far this season. I feel so bad for him, though. "I know who you are. Of course I know who you are. I don't understand how you can be here, but there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do" I didn't get it at the time, but in retrospect that was just incredibly sad. And it explains a lot of his less attractive behavior. Maybe it has something to do with all the self-pity Ten was wallowing in at the end?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I was hoping it was the Toymaker
Is it still canon that the Doctor still has the Time Lord Matrix in his mind?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
New Doctor Who song. Sort of meh-inspiring, but I thought it might be something someone would be interested in here.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The Bakemonogatari anime has a very Doctor Who-ish powerup theme song.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
That was really good. I like Amy a lot more now that she stood up for Rory (who is so sweet - he reminds me of Rhys from Torchwood, and Amy reminds me a little bit of Gwen).
But now that we've already seen them married, I have a really bad feeling about those two crazy kids. Interesting that Rory wants to be a doctor - I wonder if his ambition was formed by Amy wanting him to dress up as the Doctor.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
So what's with the new round label on the TARDIS' door?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
It's not new. It's an old St. John's Ambulance sticker. They're random volunteers who sometimes save lives. It went away for a bit, then came back.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: That was really good. I like Amy a lot more now that she stood up for Rory (who is so sweet - he reminds me of Rhys from Torchwood, and Amy reminds me a little bit of Gwen).
Yes! I mean, Gwen is Welsh and Amy is Scottish, but they do have similar personalities in some ways (Amy's a little more bubbly).
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
The Dream Lord is The Valeyard.
Discuss. Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
I told my wife that I thought he was the Valeyard half-way through the episode. The whole "he is me" revelation only solidified my opinion.
The Valeyard has to exist in the future. Of course the time war hasn't effected him (or at least some version of him), as he's a future persona of the Doctor.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Okay, this show is way, way scarier than it has been. And I'm watching it in a room without a couch.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I loved the show, but am I the only one that picked up a slight Israel and Palestine theme running through the show? Who was here first and who has a right to the land...
I wrote the 5th season off and then it comes on strong.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
On a side subject: Twice in the past two weeks I had to visit large Catholic cemeteries full of large angel statues.
I should have been paying attention to the services, but I swore that one moved.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by lem: I loved the show, but am I the only one that picked up a slight Israel and Palestine theme running through the show? Who was here first and who has a right to the land...
I thought of that as well. But then I saw that the same theme was present when the Silurians were first introduced as well.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Amy is my new Dana Scully. It's been a while since I've had such a redhead crush.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Okay, this show is way, way scarier than it has been. And I'm watching it in a room without a couch.
You aren't safe behind the couch anymore either anymore, remember the Shadows eat you now.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Thinking about River Song: if the next time the Doctor sees her is when the Pandorica opens... and if that's going back into River's past... then maybe we'll see what all that business about her having killed someone is all about.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
ROOOOORRRRRYYYYYYY
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Well, he's surely going to come back to life later. Right? Right?
I think it is more and more interesting how Doctor-from-the-future placed so much emphasis on Amy remembering things, when he talked to her in "Flesh and Stone".
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
"Doctor-from-the-future"? Huh?
He getting his jacket back was a production error not a hidden checkhovs gun.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I'm with Fyfe.
Specifically, since he's asking her to remember what he said when she was 7, he's basically asking her to remember him. Which makes sense given wha he's found in the crack.
Posted by lightpaths (Member # 1385) on :
It seems a lot of people are new to Doctor Who here, but I guess Doctor Who is a British show.
I think Rory will come back when the crack in the universe is repaired.
I didn't see the crack in the Van Gough episode at all, anyone else notice it?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I was too busy balling my eyes out when they took Van Gogh to the future. Best episode of the season.
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: I was too busy balling my eyes out when they took Van Gogh to the future. Best episode of the season.
Me, too.
(Well, "bawling," but a typo's just a typo. *grin)
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
...heh...I guess "balling one's eyes out" would evoke an image of someone using a very blunt object in a very painful way. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hm. That wasn't actually the mental image I got, but YMMV.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Do enlighten us Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by CT:
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: I was too busy balling my eyes out when they took Van Gogh to the future. Best episode of the season.
Me, too.
(Well, "bawling," but a typo's just a typo. *grin)
Me too! Definitely made it onto my "favourite eps" list.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Not one of my favorite episodes, but I still got teary when they took Van Gogh to the future. I cried several tears.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
When the "little girl" was asking for help, the voice sounded so much like Jamie in "The Empty Child" that I half expected it to say, "Are you my mommy?"
Did you notice the Van Gogh self portrait on the fridge?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
LOVED. THIS. EPISODE.
Granted, I'm biased, as I'm a fat man looking for love, but still. Absolutely brilliant.
And the headbutt-file sharing was hilarious.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I had a great chuckle when the Doctor held up the Phillips-head and asked "Where's the on-switch for this?"
One issue with this episode: What's keeping me from attaining my dreams? Money, and a whole slew of biological and mental obstacles that keep me afraid of risking comfort for attaining something better. If I had an infinite supply of resources, I'm sure I'd be an adventurer just like the doctor--but I have to work for a living, so until the benefits outweigh the risks, my dreams have to wait.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: One issue with this episode: What's keeping me from attaining my dreams? Money, and a whole slew of biological and mental obstacles that keep me afraid of risking comfort for attaining something better. If I had an infinite supply of resources, I'm sure I'd be an adventurer just like the doctor--but I have to work for a living, so until the benefits outweigh the risks, my dreams have to wait.
Remember, The Doctor is incredibly brilliant, but he doesn't know everything. And he's not an expert on anything that most normal people have to deal with. (Except, apparently, soccer.)
The Doctor is a man who stole a ship from his people and has been running (for various reasons) ever since. The advice he gives is certainly heartfelt and well meaning, but that doesn't make it good advice.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
This episode really brought back the funny, I've been missing it recently. Loved it.
Bonus points for 1) Finally using the Sonic Toothbrush (who looks at a toothbrush and thinks 'this could be more sonic?') and 2) For The Doctor saying 'Please state the nature of the emergency.' To a hologram.
Two things I've been waiting for forever.
I would have taken points off for dissing Madrid, but I think he was being sarcastic.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I liked it, but it seemed like quite a departure from the series so far, especially in tone. I enjoyed the funny, but on the other hand, The Doctor seemed less human that he ever has before. And while he's always been mad, he's never been quite so out of touch before. I mean, the inappropriate cheek kissing? When has he ever done something like that? And the head butt thing at the end had me caught between a laugh and a cringe.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: on the other hand, The Doctor seemed less human that he ever has before. And while he's always been mad, he's never been quite so out of touch before.
I'm inclined to think the worst of the characterisation on the series recently, but I think it could be argued that they're trying to depict the Doctor's current state as a reaction to what happened to him in his previous life.
Ten was weird and other, but also so human in his feelings and reactions to those he loved that it tore him up, brought him to the edge of a nervous breakdown and then caused his death.
This time around, perhaps they're having the Doctor stay on the alien side for his own benefit.
The cheek-kissing cracked me up since, now I live in Spain, I'm never sure whether people are planning to kiss me or not, or whether I should kiss them and they'll think me horrible for not doing so. Or whether they don't want to kiss me at all. It's completely random, and so confusing!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I llovin the new Doctor, hes different its fresh I liked Ten as he was awesome but the new guy is a different kind of awesome.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Seriously majorly awesome fricking wow!!! Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
What a cliffhanger. And no spoiler-reel for next week! Doctor Who went too fast this year! Do we have to wait till Christmas after next week?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh my gods...
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Someone's going to be pushing a very big reset button next week.
Because no universe = no show.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Um, but...but...the universe. What happened to the universe?
Wow. (Looks at watch...taps foot) How long until next Saturday?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
That was pretty awful. I mean, once Daleks and Cybermen and the like were ruled out, the "most dangerous creature" the box was for had to be the Doctor. Granted, I expected to find him in there when they opened it, but still, it wasn't such a shocker.
And the stuff with the Doctor yelling at them from that rock... gawd... I'm surprised they didn't just vaporize him on the spot. I mean, I'm not surprised, because that would have ended the show, but suspension of disbelief got a lot harder for me at that point.
I really, really dislike this Doctor. He's gone way past eccentric and into seriously annoying. Maybe ritalin would help.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: That was pretty awful. I mean, once Daleks and Cybermen and the like were ruled out, the "most dangerous creature" the box was for had to be the Doctor. Granted, I expected to find him in there when they opened it, but still, it wasn't such a shocker.
And the stuff with the Doctor yelling at them from that rock... gawd... I'm surprised they didn't just vaporize him on the spot. I mean, I'm not surprised, because that would have ended the show, but suspension of disbelief got a lot harder for me at that point.
I really, really dislike this Doctor. He's gone way past eccentric and into seriously annoying. Maybe ritalin would help.
Becuase he's the DOCTOR how can they be sure they got him or he would stay dead? The point is they wanna make absolutely sure they get him trapped in that box for good.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: "Doctor-from-the-future"? Huh?
He getting his jacket back was a production error not a hidden checkhovs gun.
I guess not.
Did anyone catch what her mother said after she said he wasn't imaginary? I listened to it a dozen times, and I still can't make it out.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Okay I admit it I was wrong and I am glad to be wrong.
I am also happy to see Rory and Pond continue as companions.
Any thoughts that Amy is River Song in the past and that the guy she killed was Rory?
[ June 27, 2010, 01:35 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
[ June 27, 2010, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I would be happy to swap out Amy for River, but I hope they're not the same person - because at this point if Rory ever dies of anything ever again it will be ridiculous.
River is probably my second favourite character these days. I think it's having such a good actress.
That was pretty enjoyable - not as exciting or crazy as some of the other season finales, but it made a lot of sense and was very clever. Matt Smith acted his little socks off.
If they will just make Amy more likeable, next season could be great. I like that they're carrying some plot over into next year.
Loved that Van Gough's Starry Night was a big clue about the stars going out. World in a bubble stories are lovely.
Favourite lines - 'She's only mostly dead' and 'I wear a fez now. Fezes are coo...' BANG
I still have a few questions I'm hoping the writers will address next year:
Did Rory remember the two thousand years of waiting (since he technically was in a different body)?
If Amy and Rory do remember three different time streams (With Cracks and With Stars / Without Stars and With Cracks / Without Cracks, With Stars, Without Doctor), doesn't reminiscing get confusing? If they don't, why does River remember it all? (She must do, she was at the wedding).
While the Doctor never existed, didn't that put them back into 'Turn Left' territory, but worse (in that universe, the whole world fell apart because he was gone for 2 years, not 2,000). How did Amy, Rory and their village survive?
Now that the cracks are closed, does everyone remember the Giant Christmas Robot again?
Did the Doctor telling Amy to love Rory make her fall in love with him in the first place? (Poor guy - he's so much better for her than she is for him).
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Anyone have a clue what Amy's mother said?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Did Rory remember the two thousand years of waiting (since he technically was in a different body)?
Yes, during the wedding scene he says "I was plastic..."
quote:If Amy and Rory do remember three different time streams (With Cracks and With Stars / Without Stars and With Cracks / Without Cracks, With Stars, Without Doctor), doesn't reminiscing get confusing?
To Amy's POV the Stars never went out except for when she was put into the Pandorica and for when she came out of it as the Universe collapsing never happened.
She only remembers everything Adult!Amy knows.
quote:If they don't, why does River remember it all? (She must do, she was at the wedding).
Timey Wimey Ball. River went back in time to job Amy's memory because Amy remembered thus restoring River's memory.
quote:While the Doctor never existed, didn't that put them back into 'Turn Left' territory, but worse (in that universe, the whole world fell apart because he was gone for 2 years, not 2,000). How did Amy, Rory and their village survive?
The Cracks in the Universe only erase the MEMORY of something not what that something physically did, thus everything the Doctor did up to that point is preserved.
quote:Now that the cracks are closed, does everyone remember the Giant Christmas Robot again?
Considering that was in Victorian London probably not.
quote:Did the Doctor telling Amy to love Rory make her fall in love with him in the first place? (Poor guy - he's so much better for her than she is for him).
No, Amy always loved Rory this was just to make sure that she recreated him fully as well along with her parents. And your being kinda harsh on Amy.
quote:Anyone have a clue what Amy's mother said?
Nope but its probly something like "omg".
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: And your being kinda harsh on Amy.
Probably. I'll agree that she's undeniably fond of Rory. But, the dude adores her, waits 2,000 years to be with her, thinking of her every moment - and yet she continues to constantly snap at him, repeatedly tells him to shut up, generally emasculates him and then tries to snog the Doctor in the middle of their wedding.
I want to like her! And her mini-me is so cute! And I'm all for shades of grey (love Donna, River, Jack - they all have serious personality issues, but with some amazing other qualities), but Amy's just kind of a shrew a lot of the time.
I'm not saying that this isn't a valid characterisation. I just don't want to watch it. Why, oh why can't they just make her more likeable character? /Rant]
Lisa - Amy's mum says 'Oh, no, not this again.' followed by 'The psychiatrists we sent her to.'
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:And your being kinda harsh on Amy.
I don't think she is being harsh. I will admit that Amy is both a cute and important character, but I don't find her all that likable. I think it is because of how she treats Rory. If there was no Rory Amy would be MUCH more likable, but because she takes him for granted and basically demeans him I am finding it difficult to relate with her.
Amy is good with the Doctor. My favorite companion in story, character, and acting is Donna (if we can't count Wilford). Martha is a very close second for "best character" out of the companions--intelligent, educated, and not always patting herself on the back for being clever and strong enough to not listen to the Doctor's instructions.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
sadface. No more doctor till Christmas.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Maybe Anime has warped my perception of how relationships work but I see this as one of two ways her having two husbands in a OT3 relationship or that the Doctor is just that good of a friend with her and Rory that he doesn't mind (on the inside) because he knows that while Amy loves her raggedy Doctor she is in love with Him [Rory].
Looking at it from either of these ways seems fine to me.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Lisa - Amy's mum says 'Oh, no, not this again.' followed by 'The psychiatrists we sent her to.'
Ah. That fits. Thanks.
I'm nominating "I remember you, Raggety Man, and you are late for my wedding!" as the best line of the season.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I liked "We're all stories just in the end"
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
In the end I have come to believe that Amy likes Rory more than she lets on. I loved it in the dream episode where she pretends she's having the baby to get revenge on the Doctor for making fun of her life with Rory. I don't mind her being bossy, but in next year's series, I would like it to be counterbalanced by her doing nice, thoughtful things for Rory now and then. Also I would like to see Rory doing some clever, useful things.
I'm so lame but it definitely gives me chills when Amy says the "something old, something new" line and the TARDIS shows up. The lovely TARDIS!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Rory does alot more useful things then we give credit for.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I don't get all this "Amy treats Rory like crap" stuff. What, just because she's not all over him all the time and teases him a lot? She does not demean him, not anymore than I demean my fiance Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I agree.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Also I would like to see Rory doing some clever, useful things.
He only became an Auton and guarded the Pandorica for 2000 years. Not remotely useful or clever. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I haven't been wowed by Amy, either, probably because of how she's treated Rory, who i actually like. I have mixed feelings about the two of them continuing as companions together. It surprised me, both because it's the first companion carry-over since season one and because somehow I thought them getting married would be a bit more of a final moment. But after I thought about it, I decided I kind of liked the idea that he's got a married couple tagging alongside for a while. It will change the doctor/companion dynamic significantly and leave room to develop whatever is going on with River.
I'm expecting to see a lot of River next year and so far, I like her. But I've always liked that actress, so that helps.
The actual mechanics of the finale were kind of painful, IMO, but I forgave it because I like where we ended up in terms of character development.
Posted by Traceria (Member # 11820) on :
I've got to say I like Rory and Amy together, and while it doesn't always seem like she's being fair or "nice" to him, it also seems like he knows she's softer than she likes to let on. I think in particular of when she harshly says, "Oh, shut up!" and then he hugs her while she cries. You have to remember that, as the Doctor says, she's been alone for a long time and lost a lot of people due to the crack. Rory is probably one of the lone people who has chosen to look past her tough exterior.
[ June 28, 2010, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Traceria ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You know what... I don't have a problem with Amy. For two reasons. One is that the flippant and outrageous Amy is who Rory fell in love with in the first place. She teases, and he's cool with that.
The other thing... I haven't read Television Without Pity since they got bought by Bravo, or whoever. But I was looking at their review of The Eleventh Hour (language advisory, btw), and the reviewer pointed out that the Doctor really messed Amy up big time. The crack took away her parents, and then the Doctor promised he'd be back in 5 minutes, and when she told him very clearly that people don't come back, he swore up and down that he wasn't like people, and that he'd be back in 5 minutes.
Go and rewatch that ep and see how furious she was when she realized it was him. The reviewer makes the point that her "career" as a kissogram makes sense, because she basically does what she thinks everyone does. Gets a little close, and then she's gone. How she ever got engaged to Rory is a bit of a mystery, really, and I think it has more to do with Rory's absolute determination. The same determination that let him wait for 2000 years for her.
I can't find it in my heart to complain about the way Amy treats him, because I don't think she does it to be mean, and I do think it's part and parcel of the great relationship they have.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Hm, obviously I didn't phrase my post properly. I was pleased in the finale episodes to see a little more of the dynamic of Amy and Rory's relationship (her snapping Shut up at him, and him hugging her), and also pleased to see Rory doing something good. That was sweet. In the next season, I'd like to see more small character moments that indicate that Amy likes Rory, and also (especially this) I'd like to see Rory doing some clever useful things that don't necessarily revolve around Amy.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:While the Doctor never existed, didn't that put them back into 'Turn Left' territory, but worse (in that universe, the whole world fell apart because he was gone for 2 years, not 2,000). How did Amy, Rory and their village survive?
The Cracks in the Universe only erase the MEMORY of something not what that something physically did, thus everything the Doctor did up to that point is preserved.
I don't think that that's the case. Weren't we told repeatedly that the people consumed by it had had their entire existences erased? That they'd simply never been?
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Also I would like to see Rory doing some clever, useful things.
He only became an Auton and guarded the Pandorica for 2000 years. Not remotely useful or clever.
I thought that the Pandorica was this perfect prison that nothing could get into or out of, and that perfectly preserved whatever being was inside it. Given that, what does it need a guard for?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
How much of this season actually happened? (Fictionally speaking, obviously).
If Amy, Rory and the Doctor never actually travelled together in the reality that they are currently in (hence Rory being alive and a real boy), does that mean that the Space Whale is still a slave?
Although, on a happy note, the Vampires would never have gone to Venice because they were made homeless by the crack, which now never existed, so the girls and that one girl's dad would be reset back to life.
Right?
What about the Angels?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jake: I thought that the Pandorica was this perfect prison that nothing could get into or out of, and that perfectly preserved whatever being was inside it. Given that, what does it need a guard for?
Out of. But not into.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
What's the point of a prison your friends can easily rescue you from?
With the amount of folks running about who adore the Doctor, it would be about five minutes before Jack, Sarah-Jane and River busted him out of there.
The barbed wire should work both ways.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
quote:I don't think that that's the case. Weren't we told repeatedly that the people consumed by it had had their entire existences erased? That they'd simply never been?
I don't think that's quite right. If Amy's parents had "never been" then she'd never be born. Instead it's something about how their existence is forgotten and overt evidence about them is lost (possibly like the TARDIS chameleon circuit). Like, Amy acknowledges that she had parents, but totally glosses over anything about them. It doesn't even concern her that she doesn't know anything about them, consciously.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
quote:How much of this season actually happened? (Fictionally speaking, obviously).
I think canon-wise probably everything that happened, still happened. Even though the crack was repaired, Amy still had to think hard about her parents in order to bring them back. They wouldn't have come back otherwise. That means anything that was lost through the crack remained lost unless someone knew enough to remember them (seems unlikely).
Timey wimey.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: How much of this season actually happened? (Fictionally speaking, obviously).
If Amy, Rory and the Doctor never actually travelled together in the reality that they are currently in (hence Rory being alive and a real boy), does that mean that the Space Whale is still a slave?
Although, on a happy note, the Vampires would never have gone to Venice because they were made homeless by the crack, which now never existed, so the girls and that one girl's dad would be reset back to life.
Right?
What about the Angels?
The crack erases the MEMORY of things and not nessasarily the physical existance of what it erases, for example they erased Amy's parents but she herself is still around! Otherwise there would be a grandfather paradox.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by dabbler:
quote:I don't think that that's the case. Weren't we told repeatedly that the people consumed by it had had their entire existences erased? That they'd simply never been?
I don't think that's quite right. If Amy's parents had "never been" then she'd never be born. Instead it's something about how their existence is forgotten and overt evidence about them is lost (possibly like the TARDIS chameleon circuit). Like, Amy acknowledges that she had parents, but totally glosses over anything about them. It doesn't even concern her that she doesn't know anything about them, consciously.
Ah, good point.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote:If they don't, why does River remember it all? (She must do, she was at the wedding).
Mr. Muppet says: "spoilers."
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
you know, if Rory ever teased Amy back, I don't think people would complain about how she treats him.
I don't know, I think it just annoys me people think that about Amy, because that's how I've been acting with my friends and boyfriends, and really, I think people are way off thinking she's being mean.
but then, I've rejected boys on account of their being "too nice". Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Yes! If he teased her back, I wouldn't mind. But right now I feel like the teasing's a one-way street. I'd like to see them joking around with each other more.
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