Well rescuing Rush happened fairly quickly, surprisingly quickly and now we have our thus far Big Bad in the Sorting Algorithm of Evil.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Is it just me or does syfy have some of the worst online video quality?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hulu has it. It's fine.
The plot was pretty much guessed by everyone ahead of time. This episode was a plot-bridge. Nothing spectacular about it. Even the space battle was a little underwhelming after all the buildup. The aliens look nice and alien though for once. That's something to appreciate.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I really liked this episode, but the civilian conspiracy has me groaning. It's the American military - they're used to having civilian supremacy. Why not slap on your big girl pants and try talking to Young about setting up a civilian authority to govern the "colony"? He'd probably welcome having one less thing to do. I swear, the civilians on this show are too stupid to survive.
I'm not even watching the next one; I can already see that it's going to make me angry.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The trope is that the American military is actually constantly at odds with the civilian oversight and generally this is truth in television just because you have it doesn't mean you have to like it, look at Battlestar Galactica the military there absolutely hated the possibility of proper civilian oversight why would it be any different for the US military especially when it means less authority in an emergency?
And this has ALWAYS been the case in the Stargate Verse' never has the IOA ever done anything that the Stargate program or the Atlantis expedition has ever been pleased by and they [the Stargate and Atlantis programs] are clingy complaining sycophants who will never ever be grateful for any concession they make. The moment the IOA can shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier they will be for it.
Obviously she already discussed this with Young and raised the issue and got shut down.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
If they don't show me, tell me, or at least hint to me that something happened, I contend it's not obvious.
And Stargate has always loved to call up the President to solve their problems when it gets dicey. Or Thor. I maintain they adore civilian supremacy. It's the best way to deal with other civilians.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Except they don't and yes it was on screen, Young and the girl have spoken to each other several times with her trying to get more authority each time.
They absolutely hate civilian supremacy and the IOA and would just prefer to stick with the President and the military chain of command with the joint chiefs.
They have never once showed any appreciation for the IOA and were forced to allow them or face budget cuts.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I admit I haven't seen all the episodes, but hasn't she mostly tried to butt in and tell Young how to run his away missions? Because that I would consider the military's perogitive.
I don't know that I've ever heard her or anyone talk about establishing a civilian government for their colony for the duration. I think that would ease a lot of the tensions.
If only they had a politician on board. Someone used to seeing a need and stepping up to lead people to a better future than they know they're capable of. Someone well versed in making compromises and smoothing tensions. Too bad they got stuck with Cloe instead. Seriously, could they have saddled the show with a more pathetic character? Hot shot polysci grad my foot.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
She's pretty much the damsel in distress, the SGU version of Voyager's Kes (and about as interesting).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Blayne -
Mixed history. In SG1, Stargate Command was frequently coming to blows with the IOA for a variety of reasons. On the whole, they usually got along pretty well with the domestic presidential leadership though.
Also, you have to consider Stargate Atlantis, which was a colony run by a civilian governor who controlled both scientists and military personnel. Weir was in charge for years, followed by Woolsey, and other than a couple hiccups here and there, they never really had a problem.
Posted by xtownaga (Member # 7187) on :
I think the important difference here is that Weir was an extremely accomplished diplomat and generally capable leader, and the commanding military officer in the initial Atlantis expedition died very early, leaving no military personnel in that galaxy with anything remotely comparable to Weir's credentials to compete for leadership.
Now compare that to the Destiny crew, where the ranking (and, I think, only) IOA person is an accountant who has shown fairly lacking leadership qualities when she did get some power (giving Rush too much freedom which wound up with someone sitting in the chair and being seriously injured, and going on a crusade to convict Young of murder despite lacking substantial evidence come to mind as examples of her poor leadership). If, for example, the Senator had survived the first episode (or there was a character with similar qualifications and experience to Weir at the start of Atlantis), I think we'd have gotten a much more interesting power play. I could see Young agreeing to share some power for the sake of morale, etc. if there was some reasonable choice among the civilians regarding who to share it with.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd like to see an episode where the scientists go on strike. The military, especially Greer, has made it clear in the past that when push comes to shove, they're fine with tossing the civilians overboard if it means survival in a pinch.
Why should the scientists be responsible for getting them out of jams on a constant basis when the military, the ones with the guns, sit around until it's time to shoot something? Them going on strike; refusing to operate the ship, or grow food in the hydroponics lab, etc, would be an interesting power play. A lot more interesting than actually trying an armed revolt.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Exactly. I seem to remember the average IQ of a research scientist being a 140. Even third tier Gate scientists should do better than that to get handpicked for a secret government project. So why do they all act like a bunch of complete morons who've never even heard of civil discourse and non-violent protest? Not one college educated character on the ship has even heard of Thoreau, King, Ghandi, Mandela, etc?
Plus, would it be asking too much if the scientists started acting like it occasionally? When faced with a new situation, could they identify some variables, compare it to known situations, and form a hypothesis before the military goes charging off to save the day?
The show's starting to come off like military fanboy fanfic.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
I like the fact that everyone on the ship is only barely competent, with the possible exceptions of Rush and the fat kid. The show has lamp shaded this several times. Sure, the scientists could be *smarter*, but none of them are heroes, nothing like it.
Has there ever been a drama in which the main characters were *not* the best at what they do? Of any genre? Some of the detectives on Homicide: Life on the Street weren't so smart, but other than that...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:So why do they all act like a bunch of complete morons who've never even heard of civil discourse and non-violent protest?
Because they are only as smart as the smartest screenwriter on staff.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
Well, again, I think the scientists are actually doing ok, given what they are. In the most recent episode, the guy they had running the communication stones was only a few steps above a Best Buy Customer Service rep, practically by his own admission. These are not the best and brightest, and I think the show is all the better for it.
No one is ever going to try and argue that Young is as good a Captain as Picard, or Kirk, or even Mal Reynolds; he's holding all this together through sheer force of will, not through any particular skill or display of intelligence.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: No one is ever going to try and argue that Young is as good a Captain as Picard, or Kirk, or even Mal Reynolds; he's holding all this together through sheer force of will, not through any particular skill or display of intelligence.
So let Lt. Scott take over, after all the show opened with him on an alien planet that he had to board a space ship to get to, surrounded by people trying to open a portal to unknown parts of the universe and he was much more interested in any booty he could find. Sounds like a new Kirk to me and the enterprise always came home from a mission.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:So let Lt. Scott take over,
How easy would you expect this to be, having a Lieutenant and a Colonel switch places?
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: Well, again, I think the scientists are actually doing ok, given what they are. In the most recent episode, the guy they had running the communication stones was only a few steps above a Best Buy Customer Service rep, practically by his own admission. These are not the best and brightest, and I think the show is all the better for it.
I was unclear there. Was he saying in general he's just a tech, or that when it comes to the alien device we haven't fully unraveled he's really just a tech?
Maybe I'm wrong and the military hires tons of civilian contractors for everything, but it seems like random tech boy would be a military specialist. If you're going through the hassle of getting someone from outside, I'd think they'd save that for folks already trained in their fields and good at what they do.
If Carter's the best and brightest, she's probably supposed to be somewhere in the 170s or 180s IQ wise. McKay and Zelinka would be a step down in the 160s. So even the third tier scientists out studying the ruins and trying to make the device work should be in the 140s and 150s, right?
I mean, who hires Joe Average to go out and catalog alien ruins? You get the archaeology grad students to do it for their summer internship so they work cheap. And since they're all going to be scientists, they should be as smart as scientists and familiar with the scientific method.
I just feel like the scientists are being treated as background props and plot devices, and it annoys me. Sure, I loved watching Carter and O'Neill blow stuff up on a fairly regular basis. Daniel shooting two guns at the Jaffa while he thought he was dying was one of my favorite moments. I want great military shoot em up moments in the show. I just don't want to sacrifice all my cool science plot points to get them. SGU is seriously lacking in the balance that made SG1 so much fun, in my opinion.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:I just feel like the scientists are being treated as background props and plot devices, and it annoys me.
What about Rush and the fat nerd?
I kinda think you're just complaining that this show isn't more of the same.
If this show shaves off its boring edges and distinguishes itself a bit more from BSG, I really think it could become a full on classic.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Well, to each his own, I suppose.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The character's name is Eli. And yeesh, he's not all that fat.
quote:The aliens look nice and alien though for once.
Seriously? They're Asgard that have been put on the rack, given some kind of face-fluttery bits, and soaked in blue water a while. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
They're somewhere in between Star Trek and Babylon 5. But at least they're beyond glowing eyes and weak prosthetics.
Always room for improvement.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Im still waiting for a genuinly non-bipedal sentient alien race, it seems as if the rules for intelligence in scifi are all about having two arms and two legs. Even Jabba was remotely bipedal, I get tired of seeing aliens that really just look like messed up humans.
Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
SG1 had lots. The goa'uld were little parasitic snakes, that just happened to take the bodies oh humans. There was an episode with a crystal, and one with sentient water. In SGU they already had that sand like thing. I think the stargate universe is actually pretty good about making their alien races alien.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Parasitic alien life forms have been done over and over since the face-huggers. I will give you crystal, but the water one is kinda lame IMO. And the sand thing was one big mess of "WTF was that?" What I want is a truely non-sapient life-form that we cannot relate to anything on Earth. Maybe even a creature that exists in space only with no distinguishable connections to planetary evolution (without being a living planet/asteriod) I just dont think everything has two of everything and fits our mammal, lizard and bug categories.
My favorite alien race was the Q, post-corporeal and beyond technology and seemingly bored by all of it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And yet he showed up as a bipedal humanoid.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
SG1: Milky Way or Pegasus Replicators, ascended Ancients and/or Anubis and/or Ori B5: Shadows, Vorlons ST: Founders (and your one-offs Data's Crystalline Entity, the silicon bacteria that called people bags of mostly water, the things that stuck on the ship when Geordi created a holo-Brahms, Voyager's swarm, "God", etc.) Actually, if you count machine intelligences, even if you eliminate ones of human origin, there are a lot including the Cardassian missile, V-ger, the whale probe, a bunch of emergent AI on holodecks (borderline), a bunch of androids in TOS, and the Guardian of Forever
Of course many have (or project as) recognizably humanoid forms. I think part of the difficulty is that anything that stays longer than a while needs to become recognizable in order to communicate some sort of plot
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What, the space amoeba that gobbled hundreds of Vulcans for lunch doesn't even get a mention?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
It offended me when I wrestled with it in grade school.
Edit: On second thought, the TOS androids aren't different enough with no alternate form. Replace them with the Medusans
[ April 09, 2010, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Mucus ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tonight's episode was painful to watch.
Watching so many supposedly intelligent people act so stupidly is grating.
The actions of all the military people on that ship, possibly expecting the starry-eyed Scott, are ridiculous. They're over-the-top violent, and over-the-top resentful of civilians. They're also devoid of logic. Young has little to no understanding of the technical specifics of Destiny, and constantly ignores the advice of people considerably more knowledgeable than he based on stupidly stereotypical aggressive military archetypes. The civilians for their part, are far too easily cowed into submission. Do they really think that the military would just kill them all off if they took a united stand? Who would run the ship afterward, given the utter lack of knowledge of how the ship works?
And for that matter, why don't they actually talk any of this out? I know the show would have less to actually do if they had an episode where the ship has a big heart to heart, but come on, I'd rather have that than this stupidity. They gain nothing by acting stupid and seething in private.
I suffered through a lot of ridiculousness on Atlantis with the hopes that this would be a more realistic show, but instead it's a ship of fools.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Huh-- I was thinking of putting this show back on my schedule. But I guess not.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its still good, they just needed a reason to get all of the unresolved political tension (or UPT) out of the way to make way back to aliens and exploring the ship.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Huh-- I was thinking of putting this show back on my schedule. But I guess not.
I'm holding on to the end of the season, then I'll reevaluate for next year. Supposedly the second half is supposed to be a lot better. Several of the characters are quite excellent. And I'm hoping that now that many of the interpersonal issues have been aired, they'll start doing fun, interesting things.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
At the end, in the galley I thought Young would something that would help put them all on the same level and move-on after they just committed mutiny. It didnt even seem like a hard thing to do, and then I realized that is what Adama would do... and Young is not Adama.
Points for not following the same line of thought.
[ April 11, 2010, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: AchillesHeel ]
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:Young has little to no understanding of the technical specifics of Destiny, and constantly ignores the advice of people considerably more knowledgeable than he based on stupidly stereotypical aggressive military archetypes.
But sci-fi captains do exactly this all the time. It was practically Scotty's sole role to be shouted at to do impossible things. I mean, for crying out loud, his response to this is a sci-fi cliche.
The difference between Young and Kirk/Picard/Reynolds/Sisko/McNeil/Admiral Piett is that for Young, on Destiny, shouting doesn't work. The fat nerd clearly barely knows what he is doing, and Rush has goals that conflict with the bare survival ethos of the military officers.
I don't understand why this is a problem. It is a huge plus for this show, and if they continue to play this aspect up, I stand in my conviction that this show could - could - become truly great.
quote:The civilians for their part, are far too easily cowed into submission. Do they really think that the military would just kill them all off if they took a united stand?
Young tried to murder Rush! The soldier that committed suicide was a violent bully. Greer was established as barely stable in the first episode - he was going to be court-martialed, after all. Why should they trust the military personnel? As far as I'm concerned, there are only two things that really maintain the audience's sympathies for the military personnel: they are our point of view characters, and the standard rogue-soldier tropes are being strongly underplayed.
They seem nice to us, the viewers, but seriously: if you were cut off from Earth and a military leader just tried to kill one of the leading civilians, would you be ready for heart-to-heart?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: The fat nerd
Knock that off.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its Hollywood Pudgy, hes not actually fat.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:Knock that off.
It's a fictional character. What's he going to do, throw himself down some stairs?
That actor was cast as, and the character written as, a lovable fat nerd, right? The guy who pines after hot tank top girl whose name I also can't remember? He was written as the fat nerd. Yeesh.
quote:Its Hollywood Pudgy, hes not actually fat.
I didn't know you were from Houston.
[ April 12, 2010, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Foust ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hi there, jerk. This is me, a real person, who has -- twice now -- explained that you using that term is incorrect and offensive.
Knock it off.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Regardless of you referring to a fictional character it is just as offensive as say referring to a fictional character by a similar derogatory slur.
Also context, your context of 'fat nerd' seems insulting especially to those of us who are overweight otaku's.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
Incorrect? Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that David Blue would have been cast if he was, say, 30 pounds lighter? They're going for an archetype here. They specifically choose a "hollywood pudgy" actor.
Really, this vague push in American culture to include fat with race, gender and sexual orientation is tiresome.
That'll be my last word on the fat nerd topic, feel free to call me a jerk again or whatever.
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
With every episode I despise Cloe more and more. I honestly can think of a single redeeming quality she might have. I don't think Young wasn't trying to kill Rush when he fired on the alien ship. He was trying to get rid of Cloe.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Selran: I honestly can think of a single redeeming quality she might have.
She's kind of cute.
In an annoyingly vapid way. Ok, I got nothing.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I like that she stood up to both Eli and the Generic-White-Soldier-Guy that she was sleeping with in taking Rush's side. Thats about it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Ya she has character, I dislike her sorta unjustly only because it denies the Chloe-Eli ship but other then that shes cute looking doesn't appear to be either insane or dumb as a brick and seemed genuinely scared of what was going on.
Time will tell who will seem like more of a father figure rush or young.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
So, I think the trouble that we're running into here is that the show was based around a difficult premise, and the writers are having difficulty pulling it off.
The basic premise of the show (reiterated a few times in the first episode(s)) was "these are the wrong people in the wrong place."
Now if done right, this can work phenomenally: See Battlestar Galactica, where a bunch of people who had potential to be great (but didn't start that way) stepped up and grew and made the best of a crappy situation.
The trouble here is I think they're trying to hard to be "gritty" and end up just making people dumb.
Characters with definite potential: Rush - the genius scientist who doesn't have much in the way of personal skills and whos goals are contrary to most everyone else (Baltar) Eli - the smart but malleable young guy who's way out of his depth and isn't ready to stand up for himself yet Young - The military commander who wasn't even intended to be in charge of the well defined research base security, but now stands as the only character with any discernible leadership skills (apart from maybe the medic) TJ - As a combat medic she's the most experienced "doctor" type around, but was either transferring off base or possibly being discharged from the military entirely when this happened...
In theory there's some great growth potential here, but in application there's a lot of stumbling blocks.
I actually buy (to a certain extent) the "scientists" being dumb, at least in that almost all of them are way out of their element. What I got from the beginning was that this was a lower-tier research base with a very specific focus. Basically look at it as a SETI research group or something like that... while smart, these are likely going to be reserved, nervous people with very focused areas of expertise. Now take these people, inflict a catastrophic event on them and now say "ok, you're the tech guys, figure out how to run this Chinese submarine for an indefinite amount of time." They are going to be stressed out of their minds.
That being said, I agree with the critiques about the "civilians" in general not standing up for themselves in a reasonable manner. Rather than speaking up and throwing out suggestions for some kind of representative government, they just try to stage a mutiny? This is an emergency situation where (even once things were stabilized) death is potentially waiting around every corner and things like rationing are vital to the continued survival of the crew. As such, the individuals with experience in these areas and an iota of leadership (i.e. the military personnel) are logical to be in charge (in theory slowly ceding day-to-day authority to a civilian leadership).
The trouble is the civilian characters keep acting like idiots, and as a semi-reasonable reaction Col Young et al clamp down ever harder. Now this could make for good storytelling (imperfect characters making imperfect decisions) but it largely ends up just being painful to watch.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Well put, Grim.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:So why do they all act like a bunch of complete morons who've never even heard of civil discourse and non-violent protest?
Because they are only as smart as the smartest screenwriter on staff.
The whole point of the story is that they are not the best. They are the redshirts, background support staff and assistant scientists.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote:Originally posted by aeolusdallas: The whole point of the story is that they are not the best. They are the redshirts, background support staff and assistant scientists.
I think this is my big hang-up right here. Does anyone actually find it remotely plausible that assistant scientists are roughly equivilant to random dude on the street intelligence wise? I remember my dad saying he went engineering instead of physics cause the guy with the Master's degree only got to sweep the floors.
These should be at least grad students working on their PhDs, probably as interns. Or full PhDs. They're also people who were hand picked by the military to ship to an alien planet and catalog artifacts completely unrelated to anything we understand. They should be, by definition, people well suited to assimilating new data and comprehending it.
I like Grimace's point about them being stressed. I'd like to see that played up more - it would add some nice drama. But the idea that the resonably intelligent college graduates would act like a bunch of back woods yokels is just preposterous to me.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I am cynical. I quit grad school with just a master's, but looking at the phds, very few were all that intelligent. One of the postdocs I worked with was seriously too stupid to live (he could have blown us all up a few times, once lit himself on fire). Because of the requirement for unique research, there is a super specialization to a lot of phd programs. Big picture concerns are not much of an issue- it is more what does widget 2984763 do in context of this specific situation (which half the time is an artificial situation anyway). Perhaps other programs and degrees are better, but seriously, if I was picking someone to figure this crazy technology out, I would pick people who actually work with the product- an electrician versus an engineer.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Honestly, I know plenty of bachelors/masters/phd level engineers, chemists, biologists, psychologists, etc. While I'd say there is a greater proportion of these folks who are capable and I'd have high expectations of (in general), there are plenty with some combination of the following faults: 1) stupid but persistant 2) brilliant but incredibly unwise 3) smart, but very reserved/timid 4) poor social skills 5) poor political skills
Toss together a few of those and even though you're dealing with a bunch of presumably "smart" people, they may make many poor decisions (especially in a group setting).
Hell, I know plenty of times when a bunch of engineers actually talking about their own subject of expertise will make poor decisions because of even one vocal person, or because they are pressured by management or whatever (i.e. far less trying than the current situation).
And to build off of what scholarette said, the people most suited for this kind of situation are mechanics and electricians and plumbers, not archaeologists and physicists and aerospace engineers... I can design a ship to Mars, but put me on said ship and I'll be far less useful than someone who has practical hands-on knowledge of how much you can torque this kind of valve before it breaks etc... and no one should particularly expect either of us to be competent at establishing a government from the survivors of a plane crash (or whathaveyou).
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Seems to me that while this might be true in real life, it seems that this is precisely the opposite of the state of affairs in the Stargate universe.
In Stargate, you have your super-smart Carter and McKay. With a strong grounding in theory, they also never hand-off fixing stuff or building stuff to mechanics and technicians. They are almost always better at doing the work that underlings might do, regardless of whether the system is Ancient, Wraith, human, etc.
The Destiny expedition did get the mechanics and technicians, people without theory background, and Rush is definitely portrayed as being inferior to Carter and McKay. It's not working out nearly as well.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: 1) stupid but persistant 2) brilliant but incredibly unwise 3) smart, but very reserved/timid 4) poor social skills 5) poor political skills
Toss together a few of those and even though you're dealing with a bunch of presumably "smart" people, they may make many poor decisions (especially in a group setting).
How great would it have been to get these characters instead?
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
Last night's episode left me feeling "meh." A filler episode.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Yeah. They didn't seem to do a good job of illustrating the appeal of the planet. Considering that they're just scratched the surface of Destiny and they're just beginning to really use the communication stones to bring over qualified personnel*, I didn't really get the appeal.
Then again, I thought the self-stranding at the end of BSG was stupid as well
* $ $ $ $ Apparently, Daniel will be making an appearance, possibly on the Destiny. So that could be a start.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh yeah, this was a pretty good episode that ended interestingly. I suspect the planet will actually have SOMETHING of importance on it and soon they will find a way to turn Destiny around.
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
I liked this episode a lot. But in the clips for next week, was that a dinosaur?!? To me, that doesn't bode well. And I'm pretty sure they'll figure out how to go back and get those four main characters of the show. They won't be gone and lost forever.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Ack, they wasted the Daniel appearance.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
The new episode still hasnt been posted on the web, curse them for hindering my free viewing!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Ack, they wasted the Daniel appearance.
I strongly disagree. I thought the role was quite clever. Actually, for the most part I quite liked this episode. I still think Rush is a jerk and Young a not-quite-sociopath, but I am a teeny bit more sympathetic towards Rush.
As opposed to last week's episode, which made me dislike Young even more than I had.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Why do you like Young less after "Faith"?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I strongly disagree. I thought the role was quite clever.
I'm willing to be convinced. Why was the role clever and why couldn't "stargate recruiter as figment of Rush's imagination/memory" have been some lesser guest star?
It seems to me that they have limited chances to guest star people from the other series without making it a bit hokey so they should reserve it for something more substantial.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Why do you like Young less after "Faith"?
Cheating married men always endear me to them. Also, T.J. is TERRIFIED of him finding out. She was, in fact, planning to leave the project just before they ended up on Destiny -- now we know why.
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I strongly disagree. I thought the role was quite clever.
why couldn't "stargate recruiter as figment of Rush's imagination/memory" have been some lesser guest star?
It could have been, but it wouldn't have been as good. Daniel was the SG1 conscience/soothsayer in many ways; this is a continuation of that role. (See "Abyss", where ascended!Daniel counseled O'Neill, who was being tortured by Ba'al.)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I strongly agree, more daniel is always good.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: more daniel is always good.
So very true.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Eh, in general I agree.
Daniel is certainly charismatic in a way that the cast of SGU is not. That said, I'm not convinced that this was the best way of using one of Daniel's probably limited number of appearances going forward. But I see where you (rivka) are coming from.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Why do you like Young less after "Faith"?
Cheating married men always endear me to them. Also, T.J. is TERRIFIED of him finding out. She was, in fact, planning to leave the project just before they ended up on Destiny -- now we know why.
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I strongly disagree. I thought the role was quite clever.
why couldn't "stargate recruiter as figment of Rush's imagination/memory" have been some lesser guest star?
It could have been, but it wouldn't have been as good. Daniel was the SG1 conscience/soothsayer in many ways; this is a continuation of that role. (See "Abyss", where ascended!Daniel counseled O'Neill, who was being tortured by Ba'al.)
I guess my thought process was that we already knew he was cheating with TJ, so it's not like we like him any less because of that when we already knew. TJ wanting to get away however is suspect, you're right. I think it had more to do with her just wanting to have her kid grow up with fresh air.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Did we know, or did we suspect? I thought it was just the latter. Anyway, regardless, shoving it in my face doesn't help.
And fresh air or no, that was sheer, naked terror at the notion of him knowing.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh dear, this is definitely in Stargate territory with this episode.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Yep. And I like it.
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
I think the show may finally be finding its legs. At least, I hope so.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I watched Friday's episode, and I really liked it. It was nice to see Greer turn into a real person instead of just "angry guy" like he's been in a lot of the episodes. It was a needed change.
My only concern is that last time they gave me a good dilemma, they immediately found Rush and went back to the status quo. The Rush/Young throwdown was the best thing about the entire first half of the season. I still want repercussions.
Putting Chloe (who actually stepped up and did something, can you believe it?), Eli, and Lt Boinks-a-lot together has potential. If the first thing they do next episode is realize the ship is turning around for another pass of the galaxy and save them, it would waste a really great set up.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
But on the other hand its not really that good for the show for them to be separated for too long.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
That was definitely ascension.
Details on tv tropes.
Posted by Jenos (Member # 12168) on :
I'm curious what low temperatures have to do with ascension - it is likely the case, but given what we know about the scientific nature of ascension(from that atlantis episode) I wonder how temperature fits in.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Not a bad episode, but somebody on the writing staff seriously needs to take a class on developing the plots they set up instead of immediately resolving them. I half expect TJ to have the baby next week so we can get that over with.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
low heart rate is correlated with ascension as per the time mackay got zapped by the supergenius ascension ray on SGA and said that 'once your heart rate gets to here you can ascend' lower temperature can provide this indirectly in a jiffy and well as maybe turn him into a biological superconductor.
Either way its the most plausible explanation of why he went poof that leaves the possibility of him still being 'alive' and a chance to come back, otherwise hes dead for good.
Posted by Mucous (Member # 12331) on :
Last night's episode was seriously lame. I fast forwarded through most of it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Awesome episode, this is more like Stargate SG1 with a side order of Battlestar other then the otherway around.
O'NEILL!!!! SQUEE!
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
I loved it, some classic Daniel-Jack moments.
Posted by Jenos (Member # 12168) on :
Bumping this thread for season 2. What do you think is going to happen with the Lucian alliance folks? Given certain actors being listed on IMDB, I guess some LA folks will stay on board.
Any ideas on what is going on Rush's head? I'm leaning toward he's going crazy, but there is that other hypothesis he floats out there.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Two whole episodes past, any comments?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Im watching Syfy right now and they keep showing a commercial announcing the return, and end of SGU. Ten episodes to wrap it all up is better than what could be.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Wait what?
Edit: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Im just happy they were allowed ten episodes to end the series and possibly the entire StarGate... well universe. If Whedon had been connected to the show they would have terminated all production five minutes after everyone went home for the day and never show the completed episodes.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: to end the series and possibly the entire StarGate... well universe.
Unlikely. There's talk of movies again.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Hi McKay, bye McKay. I miss that guy.
Posted by happymann (Member # 9559) on :
I wanted Sheppard to appear to give him an orange or something.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I appreciated the call back to the joke about McKay staring at endowed soldiers chest (I dont know her name) the quick joke along with the referance to McKay the episode before was a highlight.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
They have updated the SGU episodes streaming on Netflix, not current but I am surprised that they are keeping so close.
Posted by Melvin Nevergold (Member # 12552) on :
So has no one noticed that every stargate show has had an out of shape character that slowly becomes in shape?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: They have updated the SGU episodes streaming on Netflix, not current but I am surprised that they are keeping so close.
Ok, having just finished Netflix-streaming all 4 seasons of Ugly Betty, I am now catching up on SGU, which I had given up on.
And NOW I finally realize why David Blue (Eli) looked so familiar!
*facepalm*
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Melvin Nevergold: So has no one noticed that every stargate show has had an out of shape character that slowly becomes in shape?
Really? so you think That David Hewlett was healthier at the end of SG Atlantis than the begining. And the fact that David Blue and the other curvier civilians havent visibly changed has been annoying me for a while. How long have they been on that ship? and no one has lost wieght!
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:And the fact that David Blue and the other curvier civilians havent visibly changed has been annoying me for a while. How long have they been on that ship? and no one has lost wieght!
This is hardly the writer's fault. What do you expect the actors to do, starve themselves? These guys are no-name TV actors, not Tom Hanks or Christian Bale hunting for Oscars.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I understand why they havent lost weight themselves, but I like to think that if I were a producer I would use the visible changing of the actors to further dramatize the setting of the series. Make it a point as the producer to help them do it safely and in a healthy matter, and not just chubby actors but maybe a ripped one as well. The show barely got a second season and is ending, I dont think I would go through the ordeal either but wouldnt it be a bit silly if they had five seasons and everyone still looked healthy despite lack of sustenence being a re-occuring plot device.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You do realize that while any SG show is filming, they routinely work 5 or 6 12+ hour days a week? It's a grueling pace, and doesn't really allow for much else.
Leaving aside the fact that while they have had to ration several times, the majority of the time they have not only been getting enough supplies from planets to eat well, they have enough excess calories to be fermenting some of them in a still!
Intermittent periods of calorie restriction alternated with excess calorie availability actually tends to cause net weight gain more often than loss.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:I understand why they havent lost weight themselves, but I like to think that if I were a producer I would use the visible changing of the actors to further dramatize the setting of the series.
I'll say again, it's an unreasonable request to make of an actor if they aren't award hunting.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I dont really know if anyone else is still watching, but the last two episodes have really impressed me. A level of story telling I dont expect to see from a SG series and episode 18 in particular handled the expansive cast extremely well. This was a bitter sweet arc and if they can end the series as well as they have these two episodes I will be thoroughly impressed.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I have really enjoyed the last few.
I liked the twist on Destiny's descendents. While a good story, the Deep Space Nine version had way too many plot holes.
I'll watch 18 tonight and share my thoughts.
Many of my favorite shows seem to really catch on in the second season, its a shame to see it end so soon. MGM's bankruptcy is really starting to get on my nerves.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I have really enjoyed the last few.
I liked the twist on Destiny's descendents. While a good story, the Deep Space Nine version had way too many plot holes.
I'll watch 18 tonight and share my thoughts.
Many of my favorite shows seem to really catch on in the second season, its a shame to see it end so soon. MGM's bankruptcy is really starting to get on my nerves.
Speaking of this type of time travel story, can anyone think of any others? Where someone, or a group of someones, encounter their descendents living in the modern era?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Hmmm, aside from the DS9 one you pointed out, Babylon 5's Valen arc is another that comes to mind.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I really appreciated seeing the short-haired asian woman do something other than sit at the communication stones table. While they have random marines who die all the time and a consideralbe main cast she has been silently in the foreground the whole time and it was beginning to bother me.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Hmmm, aside from the DS9 one you pointed out, Babylon 5's Valen arc is another that comes to mind.
Still haven't watched much of B5. I sit down and watch the prequel movie and pilot movie, and enjoy them immensely. I then grow bored within the first few episodes of season 1. Maybe I'll try again.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Another thought, Philip J. Fry of Futurama is his own descendent if that counts.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Whats more, he is his own descendant.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Watched Ep 18. That was a wonderful ending. Part of me doesn't want to watch the next couple of episodes because of it.
I am assuming we will never find out the fate of "the mission" unless they do an ending in the last few minutes like Caprica did.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I just finished the last episode, and have already slipped into awesomeness withdrawal. They respected all of the characters, no one was left out. No rabbits were pulled out of a hat, they didnt change the rules of the SG universe to tell the story and it is a shame that story-telling of that quality is now off the air.
I like the ending better than the end of Serenity, in fact I would be much more likely to get Brown Coat kinda active to bring this back than I ever would Firefly.
/nerdsigh
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Unfortunately the ratings will never warrant a direct to dvd movie. Unless SG1 goes in and rescues them.
I was unimpressed with season 1. But season 2 was in my opinion the best season of Stargate in the franchise.
Though a better finale would have involved Carter and O'Neil recreating the events in some type of holographic chamber years later. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
This has so far been an awesome season.
Goddamnit, why do shows have to get _better_ when they're cancelled?
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Seriously, could they have saddled the show with a more pathetic character? Hot shot polysci grad my foot.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Also, T.J. is TERRIFIED of him finding out. She was, in fact, planning to leave the project just before they ended up on Destiny -- now we know why.