I've worked in IT and Telecommunications for 14 years. The most rewarding part of my career was teaching technical schools. For this reason, I got a degree in Training and Development. My hope has always been to develop and deliver training in a telecommunications company. The problem is, trainers make a lot less than technicians. I have a few days to decide if I'm going to accept my dream job for a 13k a year pay cut.
I feel selfish to ask my family to do with less for my personal job satisfaction. My wife seems begrudgingly accepting. Has anyone here quit a job for a cut in pay? Is it wrong to do so?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I wouldn't do it. Especially if you can stand the job you have right now.
Posted by sinflower (Member # 12228) on :
If it's your dream job, then it wouldn't be wrong to do so. But you should probably talk it over with your wife more, if she only seems "begrudgingly" accepting right now. You should get everyone's opinions out on the table right now to discuss right from the start, so they don't fester into resentment later.
Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
I could stand any job to pay the bills. I'm definitely not happy with my job but I am happy to provide for my family. It's not uncommon to hate your job.
Teaching is rewarding. Maybe that's why teachers get paid less. What they are offering me is near the top end of their Operations Dept salary range yet on the lower end for their Engineering Dept. It is a rapidly growing company though. I'm currently a year to year contractor. This position would be more stable. My contract is up for renewal in Sept. I might find myself accepting even less in six months.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If it's really, truly your dream job -- and if you've got enough of a cash cushion right now that if it turns out to be more of a nightmare that you can make it a year or more without a job -- then talk to your wife about it, find out what her reservations are, and do it if those reservations are ones that can be addressed.
Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
Thank you for your advice. I'm an indecisive person, that's why the military suited me and I changed my major four times. To be honest, I can't stand IT, I just have an aptitude for it and fell into it.
My real "dream job"....park ranger. Of course, that will never happen.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Honestly....I'd go for it because of the stability, and because you said you like it. While it is not uncommon to hate your job, it is also not uncommon to develop an ulcer because of that.
Find something you are good at and that you love to do, and you will FIND a way to make it pay. That's what I honestly believe, most of the time. Reality is usually somewhere in-between, though.
Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
I agree with you, I'm just trying to convince myself that it is ok. I'm currently being paid about 20k more a year than the average person in my career field. The reason I get paid more is it is unstable. Contractors get more, but they aren't assured a job. Filling a temporary need pays more than a regular need.
I'm afraid when I take the cut, she wont understand. I know the difference between her being ok and her saying it's ok. She'll think I did it for my own satisfaction instead of stability. In some weird way, the stability aspect of the job would be a better argument to my wife if it wasn't also a job I would enjoy.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I took a 25k a year pay cut to work as a High School teacher. The stability and time with my family were more than worth it... of course, the pay cut also put me in a position where I received significant financial aid (free breakfast and lunch for all the kids at school, for example) and my credit was already so hosed from my divorce fallout that I didn't have a lot to lose, monetarily. I also traded *way* up on the benefits ladder.
I don't know how much this applies to your situation, but in my case it was a good move.
edit to add: the tone of your last post makes it sound like she'd be ok if you were doing it for stability and not ok if you were doing it for your satisfaction. I think it's important to acknowledge, if not stress, that stability and your satisfaction are *both* reasons for doing it to be tallied up against the loss of income, and not hedge *at all* on one of those reasons over the other. Claiming altruism like "I'm really doing it for the stability" will make her far more uncomfortable and hesitant than all other issues combined.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
13k a year is pretty big, so I would sit down with your wife and a realistic budget. Make concrete plans. What's going to get the cut because you don't have enough money?
This is a hard thing to advise on because some people live closer to their means than others. I am diligent about budgeting and always leave myself a cushion, but not everyone does that. Not everyone even knows what's coming and going every month. (I'd go so crazy! )
SO here are my questions
1. Do you know *exactly* where your money is going each month?
2. Can you find specific ways to cut over $1,000 a month out of your monthly budget? (The answer may be no if your fixed payments such as mortgage, utilities, and car payments are already too high.)
3. If you know where your money is going and if you can make the cuts, are you willing to? Is the additional job satisfaction going to be worth the loss of ______? Will it be worth it for your family as well?
If you either don't know where your money is going each month or can't currently make the cuts, then I would not take the job at this time. Others may come up in the future and you can try to restructure your budget so it is possible, such as buying a cheaper house.
But that's just me. I would potentially be willing to trade money for happiness, but only if I knew exactly how it would work.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Personal fulfillment is valuable for its own sake. Money is only as valuable as the stuff you can buy for it. So... if there's $13K worth of stuff that you would part with in exchange for personal fulfillment for an entire year, go for it.
I've never quit a job and taken one for less money. But, when I first graduated from college I took a job that paid about 40% less than another I was offered because I felt it'd be more fulfilling - and to this day I think it was a very good decision.
[ April 05, 2010, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Tresopax ]
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Here's a question for you: how much money would you save by switching jobs in terms of gas, wardrobe, child care, meals out and payment for repairs you might undertake yourself?
Would your hours be different? Would you spend more time with your children or wife?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
If I were making your decisions, I would have you take the job.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Christine basically asked the same question I was going to ask, but in far greater detail: Can you afford it?
If the answer is yes and it were just you, I'd say go for it, no question. But there's a marriage to consider. If your wife remains only "begrudgingly accepting" and you make the switch, is your relationship strong enough to weather the fallout?
Personally, in this economy I think stability means quite a lot.
Hope it works out to everyone's satisfaction!
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Even not knowing anything about your specific family, I'd be willing to bet that your greater satisfaction at work will result in some pretty significant benefits for your family.
They did for my family when my dad got his dream job (after 20+ years!)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If you can afford it and your family is okay with it, then do it.
My chosen career path very likely won't lead to a lot of financial success, but I'll get by, and I'll spend every day doing exactly what I love doing, so to me it's well worth it over trying to do something that's prosperous but unfulfilling. It's a question of whether wealth or happiness is more important, keeping in mind that, up to a certain income level, wealth brings happiness, but I suspect it's not the same kind of happiness.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: My real "dream job"....park ranger. Of course, that will never happen.
Y'know, National Park Service hires people part-time during summer and winter to act as tour guides. You get the nifty hat and everything. Pay's not bad, but then again, I've never made anything about $7.50/hr. If I lived closer to a national park, I'd consider doing that during my breaks.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I don't anyone has asked yet. Have you looked at benfits like health and retirement? If they are similar to other teaching positions, you may get your money back in other ways.
I took about a 10k pay cut to be a teacher, leaving insurance sales. Worth it everyday, fulfillment wise.
I am however almost guaranteed a raise every year, a nice pension, and great health benefits. My salary in insurance was pretty much stuck, no health, and no returement.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I don't anyone has asked yet. Have you looked at benfits like health and retirement? If they are similar to other teaching positions, you may get your money back in other ways.
This is a good point. Actually, my husband took a slight salary cut when he moved to his present job, but thanks to the excellent health insurance, our monthly income is almost exactly the same. In this case, we went from seriously AWFUL health insurance -- the whole high deductable, low payout, HSA crap they have going -- to seriously good health insurance that the company pays for in full, including premiums. All we have now are some small copays. So his salary went down by 4k a year but we saved, by our calculations, about 4k a year on insurance. Would have been perfect if he hadn't also lost a week of vacation, but as his previous job wasn't actually letting him take that vacation, it amounted to 4 weeks on paper vs 3 weeks in fact.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
One of the reasons consultants get paid more is that the company doesn't have to pay them benefits. Its not just the security. I've been on the budgeting end, benefits typically cost a company 25-40% on top of the actual salary. When you factor that in, consultants often cost a company less than an employee with benefits.
Christine makes a really good point about benefits. A few years back I was comparing two jobs. When I compared only the base salary, the difference in pay was about 5% but when I took into account the health care and pension benefits, the difference was around 25%. A significant fraction of that extra money showed up in every paycheck because the benefits were not only better but the required employee contribution to both the health care and retirement plans were lower.
In addition to looking at benefits, take a look at your taxes. That drop in pay will also mean a drop in taxes. My take home pay (in the US after taxes, FICA, insurance and pension deductions) was never more than about 60% of the official pay rate. A 13 K pay cut results in a much smaller cut in what you take home.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Like everyone said, it depends on your situation. Do you have kids to send to university? Does your wife want to move to a better neighborhood or a different city? Do you have enough cash to pay our crappy healthcare system in the event of emergency? Is there enough to replace your car if it breaks down or crashes?
Personally, I wouldn't do it without a significant cushion. In fact, I'm not sure I'd do it at all for the reasons you've stated -- I'll accept lower pay for more free time with my family, but just for personal enjoyment? It's irresponsible if it compromises your ability to provide for your family.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:It's irresponsible if it compromises your ability to provide for your family.
I'd submit that this threshold is likely to be well behind the threshold of "requires very uncomfortable adjustments."
In other words, if this change makes it so the family eats a lot of ramen noodles and can't afford to take vacations or buy gadgets or wear anything but secondhand clothing, it could be difficult to adjust to, but wouldn't necessarily be irresponsible due to the material effects on the family.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:It's irresponsible if it compromises your ability to provide for your family.
I'd submit that this threshold is likely to be well behind the threshold of "requires very uncomfortable adjustments."
In other words, if this change makes it so the family eats a lot of ramen noodles and can't afford to take vacations or buy gadgets or wear anything but secondhand clothing, it could be difficult to adjust to, but wouldn't necessarily be irresponsible due to the material effects on the family.
In which I suggest anyone go buy a copy of the Complete Tightwad Gazette and figure out some priorities. The 800 page book can be summed up as "careful planning and creativity can trump money", "thrift is fulfilling your dreams, not depriving your lifestyle".
Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
It's a corporate training position so no government benefits. I decided to accept the position. I'm going to turn in my two weeks notice when I get back to the states at the end of the month. My wife is grumbling a little. We can spare the cut. I might have to stop going to starbucks and she might have fewer UPS trucks stopping at the house. It's funny how pay raises become necessary, once you get used to them.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That's the truth, for sure.
I hope it goes well for you, and that it is all you hope it is. Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
I am playing dirty pool a little. Legally, I can't be fired for my military service but they don't have to pay my full salary while I'm gone. When I get back from Jamaica, I'll turn in my notice. They offer the military leave benefit. Is it wrong of me to use their benefit and immediately turn in my resignation?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Is it wrong of me to use their benefit and immediately turn in my resignation?
Yes. I had a coworker with two weeks of sick leave who, upon giving two weeks of notice, took two weeks of sick leave. It infuriated me and seriously inconvenienced the office.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I think mal's situation is a little different. He already had the military service planned and informed his work. So they should already have that covered. When he gets back, presumably he will turn in notice and work the last two weeks. In that case, I don't think it is a problem. But I am also good with my friends who decided to quit after they had kids and so they took their maternity leave, came back to work, put in notice, worked the required month (some places forfeit maternity benefit unless you work a whole month) and then stayed home.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
No, it isn't wrong at all. Do your service, then give your two weeks and work it out.
Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
On a different point. I'm loving my Annual Tour. It's multinational training mission. The hotel I'm in is packed with Navy members from 15 nations. Cultures are so different. The Jamaican female enlisted are going to perform a "fashion show" for the enjoyment of the males.
There's a protocol officer who insists that it would be offensive of us to refuse to attend. Not all nations are as enlightened as ours.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Nor are they as humble.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
We are the MOST humble nation we know! Just ask us! Posted by malanthrop (Member # 11992) on :
The guys from Grenada are the coolest. One of them said to me, "Jamaica is the only country I've been to that makes me appreciate my country". I didn't know how to respond to that.
In a way, I can relate. I've been to dozens of countries and every one of them has made me appreciate mine. I think he intended his statement differently. I admire Singapore's cleanliness and Germany's speed limits but I don't want to pay a $1000 fine for eating Cheetos on a subway or have my teeth rot out of my head unless I'm wealthy.
American's are personally humble. They just understand most of the world wishes they were American.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
The foreigners I know don't wish they were American. Most seem to think American's superiority to be ridiculous, all things considered (ie, how very many standards of living we get our butts kicked in internationally).
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My general impression is that most people think their own country is great and the good points of their particular country are foremost when they think of it.
This is a good thing! Very psychologically healthy. I don't understand the seeming desire of some to make Americans or anyone else hate themselves. Whatever the motivation, it isn't a kindness. I suspect it comes from the sad tendency to make oneself feel superior by putting other people down.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Alternatively, we can look up how much of the world (adults at least) wants to be American.
The answer, 24% of the 700 million people that would wish to move if they had the chance, or 165 million. This is the largest number in an absolute sense, but a far cry from most.
Tuesday I'm starting my new position. Looking forward to making less money.
I'm finally getting away from being a technician and will get to use my degree in Training And Development. Next week I'll be busy writing lesson plans and instructor guides. I hope I don't regret the pay cut for what I really want to do.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Good luck. I hope it turns out to be all you hoped it would be.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Alternatively, we can look up how much of the world (adults at least) wants to be American.
The answer, 24% of the 700 million people that would wish to move if they had the chance, or 165 million. This is the largest number in an absolute sense, but a far cry from most.
I missed this last time, but I think it's interesting. We did an informal poll in one of my classes once, where my professor asked every student in the class where they would live if they absolutely had to leave America and move to another country. Every single person in the room chose to move to their country of ancestry, and almost every one of them cited ancestry as the reason.
I found that both surprising and interesting.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I'm surprised by that as well. I'm primarily of Irish ancestry, and while I'd find it interesting to visit Ireland, if I were to have to become a citizen of another country, I'd want it to be Canada.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I'm with Jake- Canada seems like a nice place to live. I'd probably pick Vancouver specifically since my sister is moving there in a month, so at least I would know someone. My husband has family in China and the whole ancestry thing and while he is willing to visit, I don't think he has any desire to live there. I'm German and while Germany might be ok, I would prefer an English speaking country.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop:
My real "dream job"....park ranger. Of course, that will never happen.
Why not?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tammy:
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop:
My real "dream job"....park ranger. Of course, that will never happen.
Why not?
Because the irony of a libertarian working for the National Park Service to help preserve public treasures would cause the Universe to implode.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
lol
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Tammy:
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop:
My real "dream job"....park ranger. Of course, that will never happen.
Why not?
Because the irony of a libertarian working for the National Park Service to help preserve public treasures would cause the Universe to implode.
Or be just hilarious, a la Ron Swanson in Parks and Recreation.
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