So, both my wife and I are going back to school. She'll be attending Weber State, and I'm going to the University of Utah. After her orientation yesterday, she mentioned (with a bit of disgust) that every computer she saw was an Apple, and that there was an Apple store at the University. I remarked that the U's website seemed to be pushing Apple computers and hardware pretty fervently. In a stranger turn, however, was the fact that all of the Apples seemed to be running Windows.
Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools? Both the corporate world and the government are still very PC heavy, with Dell computers and XP still pretty much the gold standard. Why in heaven's name would Apple be allowed to proliferate in our halls of learning? Are they really just trying to be stylish or trendy? Do their IT departments do the sourcing / purchasing, or are the decisions being made by some "brilliant" team of advisors.
Maybe the answer is right in front of me. They seem to be pitching iPods just as hard as the desktops and notebooks. They profess to be selling "discount" hardware and try to fill a niche as a hardware vendor. Maybe the kids nowadays just don't know any better.
At least the Macs are all running Windows. That makes me feel SOMEWHAT better. . . .
Posted by jh (Member # 7727) on :
Honestly, my first reaction is that you're a bit of a Windows snob. Who cares whether it's Apple or Windows as long as it runs well and you can get what you need to? I have many friends who have Macs and they like them more than they like PCs. Your question on why Apple should be "proliferate in our halls of learning" also sounded a bit pretentious.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I agree that Apple has established a niche in the educational area. A lot of schools and educational institutions offer a great deal of support for Apple products, especially computers, beyond what is seen elsewhere.
So why is this happening? Is Apple just very good at marketing to schools? Or are collegiate students naturally attracted to their products, and the support reflects this natural tendency?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The university IT people I've known at several institutions have all preferred students used Macs, because those caused far, far fewer problems for them (for instance, during move in they always have to remove numerous viruses from student computers before they can let them on the network).
edit: this doesn't apply to Macs running Windows, of course. However, I suspect you'll find that almost all of the Macs are actually running OS X.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Eh, jh, that's probably because I am pretentious.
Did you ever see the episode of Mythbusters where they polished a turd? They got a really nice sheen on it, after quite a bit of polishing. That's pretty much what Steve Jobs has accomplished.
I understand brand loyalty. My brother-in-law always buys Sony. He doesn't have to think about what he's doing, because he's a Sony man. Stereo? Sony. Television? Sony. Lawnmower? Sony . . . err, Toro.
Apple has done well with their handheld market. But the brand loyalty with desktops and laptops is rediculous. Apple pimps old, inferior hardware for egregious prices. Ne'er-do-wells who don't know any better fall for it, namely college age children and old folks. Just try explaining to my grandfather why he can't run 80% of the software that he wants to on his shiny new Mac.
Gosh, and Apple's browser is the most vulnerable of the big four. It's probably a good thing that hackers aren't interested in pilking poor college kids.
So, yeah, I'm a Windows "snob". 7 is the greatest OS ever developed . . . by a large margin. Windows is the best product on the market. Linux is fine, if you're really "anti-commercial" and don't need powerful apps, but the pro-Apple camp is delusional.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
One reason could be Apple's back-to-school deals. Last year you got a free iPod touch and free color printer when you bought a MacBook with a student ID.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools?
Honestly? That's Apple's target market. If they don't teach you to appreciate their "unique" qualities (i.e. branding) in college, they'll never get you at all.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I'll go ahead and say it that I think a large part of it is marketing. Apple simply looks cooler, and now that it's established a niche students who get PC's end up looking like the poor kid. That, combined with the fact that most of these kids (myself included) grew up with Microsoft and were constantly frustrated with it, makes college the perfect time to try something new, spread their wings, and get a computer that has a consistently fast start up time and doesn't have a virus problem.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools?
Honestly? That's Apple's target market. If they don't teach you to appreciate their "unique" qualities (i.e. branding) in college, they'll never get you at all.
In the 90's, kids wanted to be "different" by adopting and emulating unique attitudes. It seems that the kids nowadays want to be "different" by all adopting the same absurdities. A hundred kids dressed alike, all espousing how original they are.
*shrug* Hey, no one has matched the iPod, the iPhone, or the iPad yet. But I hate their DRM and their desktops and laptops are rubbish. I own an Android phone out of principle, but I am the first to admit that it's crap compared to the iPhone.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:In the 90's, kids wanted to be "different" by adopting and emulating unique attitudes. It seems that the kids nowadays want to be "different" by all adopting the same absurdities.
Um...No. I remember the '90s pretty well; all those kids out there scrambling to be different were identical in their uniqueness.
That said, certainly the modern era allows students to put their own stamp on something while still prominently buying into the brand: witness the proliferation of custom cases and vinyl clings.
Posted by DSH (Member # 741) on :
When I was in high school ('84-'88), Apple computers were the dominant computer in school labs. My first (and only) computer programming experience was on an Apple IIe in Applesoft Basic.
I remember a news story regarding this and specifically remember an "industry expert" predicting that all these kids--educated on (and in) Apple computers--were going to eventually drive Apple's dominance over the IBM computer.
Still waiting for that one to happen. Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I have a Mac at work and an XP laptop at home, and I must say I look forward to my Mac every day, for a number of reasons both definable and indefinable. My next home computer purchase will likely be a Mac if I can swing it. If not, then another cheap PC. If I was a serious PC gamer I might think differently.
I think I’m past the point where I’m trying to be different. Hell, I drive a minivan and my kids are in soccer. I just like the Mac better. I like how Apple makes things. I also like how Nintendo makes things, and am fairly loyal to them for the same reason. I won’t stand in line at the Apple store for the next big product; I don’t have to have it before everyone else. I just know when I do get it, I’ll like it and it will be reliable.
I don’t doubt that many college students buy Apple because 1) They want to stand out, and 2) Apple stores are cool, but it’s not the only reason to buy Apple. They actually do make pretty good stuff. I have yet to see proof of the opposite.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Funny story: When I first got to college, I bought a middle of the line iMac, and I loved it. Still do really. Great computer. Last year me and my wife lived with another couple, and the guy was much like you Herblay - strong Windows advocate. Despite the fact that he had to reformat his hard drive three times in the 8 months we lived together. But we would go on and on about how Macs can and can't do this and PC's can and can't do that, yada yada.
Around Christmas time I went up in the attic to get me and my wife's small little Christmas tree and saw that I had stored it in the box my Mac had come in. So I came down stairs and told my roommate, "Hey, I've finally got you. I can tell you exactly why Mac's are better." He looked at my skeptically as I pulled out the box. "Because," I said, "they come with Christmas trees!"
He never had any argument after that.
(Perhaps it was funnier in person...)
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Since I'm at college now, I figured I'd share my experience.
I go to Ohio University. In almost all of the computer labs, PCs are predominant. The only places I've ever seen Macs are in the language lab, the music school, and the art school. Honestly, that makes sense to me. Macs tend to run music and art software better than PCs do--I know at Ohio State, they teach Technology in Music (a required class for music majors) on Macs, using garage band as a primary piece of software. The computers in the library and the psychology building, however, are all PCs.
The only people I ever knew who used Macbooks were music and art students, with one exception. Everyone else used PCs. A lot of my friends are gamers, and they laughed at people who suggested they get Macs Personally, I have a Dell Studio SPX desktop and a Dell InspironMini netbook that I use. I'm quite happy with both.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
I acknowledge that there's a Mac crowd. I would even recommend Mac . . . under certain conditions.
Both the beginner computer user and the power user should avoid the Mac for the same reason: software availability. My grandfather still cannot figure out if any particular software will work on him Mac, and I certainly couldn't find the gaming / ripping software that I need.
Budget conscious people should avoid the Mac. I could buy three comparable PC's for about the same price as a Mac desktop.
I have recommended the Mac to friends who are neither computer savy nor computer illiterate, who have plenty of money to spend on quality, who aren't gamers, and who just need a computer for web / word processing / art / movies and want the capability to sync to their iDevices.
As far as a Mac running Windows (only)? Dude . . . get a Dell!
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: ...I must say I look forward to my Mac every day, for a number of reasons both definable and indefinable. My next home computer purchase will likely be a Mac if I can swing it. If not, then another cheap PC. If I was a serious PC gamer I might think differently.
I think I’m past the point where I’m trying to be different...I just like the Mac better. I like how Apple makes things. I also like how Nintendo makes things, and am fairly loyal to them for the same reason. I won’t stand in line at the Apple store for the next big product; I don’t have to have it before everyone else. I just know when I do get it, I’ll like it and it will be reliable.
I don’t doubt that many college students buy Apple because 1) They want to stand out, and 2) Apple stores are cool, but it’s not the only reason to buy Apple. They actually do make pretty good stuff. I have yet to see proof of the opposite.
Ditto all that.
quote: Hell, I drive a minivan and my kids are in soccer.
As for this, I don't have a minivan. But if everyone' kids grow up playing soccer, why isn't it more popular in America?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
True, with Macs there are few options for people with little money to spend who want a really decent computer. That’s been my main reason for not getting a Mac at home. There are issues with software, although in the time I’ve been using Macs, the software gap has narrowed considerably. I have not felt the software pinch in many years, and indeed, there have been times that I’ve wished my PC could get software with functionality I can get on my Mac. But, yeah, buying a new Mac is still like buying a new PC in the 80s—top price and the feeling that you’re getting a luxury instead of a commodity.
Herblay, you lumped in “art” with browsing the web and word processing. As has already been brought up, “art” is a pretty big category all by itself and is one where Macs definitely have the corner on the market. Where I work, in the creative department of a mid-sized company, Macs are used exclusively, and having to work on a PC would be considered a handicap. The designers I work with are definitely not beginning or casual computer users (although, true, they are for the most part not computer and network whizzes like the serious IT guy). The computer is one more tool on the workbench for them. The Mac is just the tool with the most comfortable grip, the best balance, and the finest edge.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Ah, the PC snob. I cherish the sound of the last of a dying breed.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:The Mac is just the tool with the most comfortable grip, the best balance, and the finest edge....
Comfortable grip, maybe. I'm not at all sure about the "finest edge" bit, especially when it comes to art programs. Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Blah. I don't see why people get so worked up over this. I like Windows because I'm comfortable with it, it does what I need it to do, and I see no compelling reason to change. If that's how you feel about Mac, well, go get yourself a Mac. Not that big of a deal.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I've built about 10 PCs from scratch, but sometimes it's really nice to have a Mac that just works without all the fuss. I can't configure every little doodad on my Mac as much as I can on my PC, but it's about 1/10th the pain in the butt.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:As for this, I don't have a minivan. But if everyone's kids grow up playing soccer, why isn't it more popular in America?
Because there's no money in it. The big money in America is in pro football, baseball, and basketball so it is to those sports that the best athletes gravitate when they get older. They may play soccer along with baseball, football, or other basketball when they're young, but when they get to junior high the best athletes switch to the big three, alomst always.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:The Mac is just the tool with the most comfortable grip, the best balance, and the finest edge....
Comfortable grip, maybe. I'm not at all sure about the "finest edge" bit, especially when it comes to art programs.
I’m not enough of a techie to know if Macs actually have an advantage in the graphics area or the Adobe Creative Suite area. But I’ve tried using those programs on a PC after getting used to them on a Mac, and it’s not comfortable. Designers who have been using Macs since undergrad would find plenty to gripe about. Whether the rest is just a placebo effect, I couldn’t say. There are definitely many more committed Mac-o-philes in my department than me who would argue the point much more fervently.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
If all you're doing is web browsing, word processing, and graphics design, a Macintosh would work fine. Likewise if your focus of study is something creatively focused like art, music composition, and so on. I'll freely admit it: very good creative software exists for the Mac, it remains less likely to contract a virus than a PC, and by and large the hardware and software are a bit more reliable (though of course, you're paying for that.)
For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
And to be blunt, a long-time Windows user is probably going to be far less lost immigrating to a Macintosh machine than vice versa. There's definitely something to be said for making people build their basic computer literacy on a PC.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Dude . . . get a Dell!
duuuude *puffs a stereotypical joint of marijuana*
Posted by xtownaga (Member # 7187) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
I'm a computer science graduate student right now, and graduated with my BS in Comp. Sci. last year. In my experience, CS (at least as it exists in academia) is moving steadily toward Macs dominating. This is speaking both in terms of incoming students and the professors. There's a good reason for this too. You get UNIX with a better GUI than what Linux has been able to come up with. In terms of independently produced software, I have yet to find any open source software that won't compile and run without issue on my Mac. If I need to run some Windows software (and I don't remember the last time I did), I can run XP in a virtualized system with no problem, I suppose I could also use WiNE if I were so inclined. From a software perspective, if you're comfortable with a terminal, Macs are extremely versatile (and configurable, actually).
It's also worth noting that those who do use PCs in the CS world do most of their work in Linux.
In short, because of the vastly superior selection of open source software and the better terminal environment than Windows, and the larger selection of native commercial software/somewhat more polished GUI than linux make OS X one of the best, and most popular (and steadily growing more popular) platforms for Computer Science. Windows is in a distant third place.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by xtownaga:
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
I'm a computer science graduate student right now, and graduated with my BS in Comp. Sci. last year. In my experience, CS (at least as it exists in academia) is moving steadily toward Macs dominating. This is speaking both in terms of incoming students and the professors. There's a good reason for this too. You get UNIX with a better GUI than what Linux has been able to come up with. In terms of independently produced software, I have yet to find any open source software that won't compile and run without issue on my Mac. If I need to run some Windows software (and I don't remember the last time I did), I can run XP in a virtualized system with no problem, I suppose I could also use WiNE if I were so inclined. From a software perspective, if you're comfortable with a terminal, Macs are extremely versatile (and configurable, actually).
It's also worth noting that those who do use PCs in the CS world do most of their work in Linux.
In short, because of the vastly superior selection of open source software and the better terminal environment than Windows, and the larger selection of native commercial software/somewhat more polished GUI than linux make OS X one of the best, and most popular (and steadily growing more popular) platforms for Computer Science. Windows is in a distant third place.
I work in a very large tech company, and I've traveled a lot to quite a few vendors. Everyone uses Windows. First off, all business software is Windows (SAP, Oracle, government, etc) -- sure, Mac versions exist or emulation can be run, but I've never seem a company do it. There's no reason: Windows programs operate natively to Windows, the software coexists with the engineering software (Matlab, NI) and Windows ALWAYS gets the most current updates.
Sure, you have to run Unix servers and Linux emulation (which runs fine on Windows), but compatibility is king.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by xtownaga:
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
I'm a computer science graduate student right now, and graduated with my BS in Comp. Sci. last year. In my experience, CS (at least as it exists in academia) is moving steadily toward Macs dominating. This is speaking both in terms of incoming students and the professors. There's a good reason for this too. You get UNIX with a better GUI than what Linux has been able to come up with. In terms of independently produced software, I have yet to find any open source software that won't compile and run without issue on my Mac. If I need to run some Windows software (and I don't remember the last time I did), I can run XP in a virtualized system with no problem, I suppose I could also use WiNE if I were so inclined. From a software perspective, if you're comfortable with a terminal, Macs are extremely versatile (and configurable, actually).
It's also worth noting that those who do use PCs in the CS world do most of their work in Linux.
In short, because of the vastly superior selection of open source software and the better terminal environment than Windows, and the larger selection of native commercial software/somewhat more polished GUI than linux make OS X one of the best, and most popular (and steadily growing more popular) platforms for Computer Science. Windows is in a distant third place.
Macs dominate in professional Astronomy for the exact same reason, the UNIX under the hood. With OSX, Astronomers could run the exact same programs they'd been using for over a decade on a Mac and not have to set up a Linux box.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
It all depends on what you're doing. There are some things that macs just do better (or are much easier to get to do just as well) and there are things that a PC will do better; or again, just as well, far easier for less money.
For me, my XP laptop does just fine. Once I get my studio built, it will have a mac in it.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I was a pretty hardcore PC user for a long time. Even stuck with Windows through college (and spent uncountable hours troubleshooting crashes and cleaning out malware). I switched to a Macbook in grad school, and haven't looked back since. For me, the advantages are pretty simple:
-I prefer the Mac OS X interface. -I almost never have to deal with crashes that require a reboot anymore. -Superior performance in most respects. -Viruses and malware are almost a non-issue. -Every piece of software I need as a working scientist is available for the Mac (and in many cases isn't available for PC - more on that in a bit). -I lurve my multitouch touchpad. I don't know how I lived before two-finger scrolling, three-finger "end of page," or four-finger "desktop" gestures. -Spaces and Expose. 'Nuff said. -It's just a fabulously constructed piece of hardware - two years after I bought it, the unibody still looks brand new. And I haul this thing everywhere, protected only with a soft case. -Contrary to my experience with Windows, things tend to work on the first try. Intuitively. No trouble-shooting, no messing around with system settings, no need to manage memory manually. I open a new piece of software, and holy crap, it does what I want it to do.
Are there disadvantages? Yes, definitely. Among others:
-Office for Mac blows. Both the 2004 and 2008 editions. They just suck, terribly. To be fair, you could argue that this is still Microsoft's fault. -The interface for navigating Spaces isn't as well-executed as most other aspects of the OS -Some software definitely runs better on Windows these days. -It's undeniable that Macs are, hertz for hertz, far more expensive than PCs. -It occasionally rankles that hardware modification is not part of the design. -Steve Jobs is a douchebag (it's true).
Regarding why Macs are so dominant in the academic sphere... well, I can't speak for fields other than the natural sciences, but among academic biologists, Macs rule for one simple reason: Papers. It is by far the best software solution available for finding, organizing and reading primary papers. I've seen dozens of people fall under its thrall, and its rather amazing how quickly every single one of them goes from a desk strewn with endless printouts to one completely free of all paper. Until there's a similarly powerful piece of software available for Windows, Macs will continue to be the computer of choice for science.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I remember when QA-C and dev got a couple of macs to see if mac os's would cause any problems for our game's latest builds.
The Tester I's and Tester II's issued the most immediate cry of "NOT IT" i have ever heard.
Oh and there's like one more mac in the audio department. I think. I don't even know what they use it for.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Oh and there's like one more mac in the audio department. I think. I don't even know what they use it for.
For digital audio recording and editing. Many of the best software and hardware packages are Mac only, though some good PC based stuff has come out in the last few years.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I asked. We got two of the absolute best audio people in the world working on all studio projects, and they say they have a grunt use the mac to test whether or not there's any artifacts or audio issues on the cross-platform releases. That's literally it.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I asked. We got two of the absolute best audio people in the world working on all studio projects, and they say they have a grunt use the mac to test whether or not there's any artifacts or audio issues on the cross-platform releases. That's literally it.
Like I said, good PC aps have finally shown up in the last few years but Macs are still very popular in the audio world. They are slowly but surely losing that market share though. There used to be NOTHING for PC that was actually worth using.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I was just surprised to find, for all intents and purposes, 0% representation in the industry; apparently it's all the same across Gazillion.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I asked. We got two of the absolute best audio people in the world working on all studio projects, and they say they have a grunt use the mac to test whether or not there's any artifacts or audio issues on the cross-platform releases. That's literally it.
What audio projects are they doing, exactly, and on what software platform? I'm very curious, because I know dozens of music producers and not a single one who uses a PC. I know a few 'beat guys' who use frooty loops or other low-end crap on PCs, but only because they owned PCs when they lived with their parents, pirated beat software, and then never bothered to make the switch.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Audio department is audio engineering, sound design production, voice over acting directing production, music composition, arrangement, and transcription, etc. We actually have a fairly large audio department since it is responsible for the audio components of ALL our games currently in production, and we have two full sound studios.
We recently got voiceover work with patrick stewart. that was fun.
While it's probably not a complete list, the DAW I have seen referenced is Cakewalk Sonar 8.5 Producer, Reason 4, Record, Reaper 3.4, Acid Pro 4.0, Soundforge 9.0, ProTools 8 HD, CEPro 2, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic 9, Digital Performer. That was for the MMO lead, at least. I think he's referenced Mac use in the past but uses only PC.
Sonar is the big DAW at use here as far as I can see. It's optimized for win7 64 bit.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
Those are the big hitters in the audio world and many were not even available for PC a few years ago. ProTools was one of the first to do a PC version that actually worked.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I asked. We got two of the absolute best audio people in the world working on all studio projects, and they say they have a grunt use the mac to test whether or not there's any artifacts or audio issues on the cross-platform releases. That's literally it.
Heh. Come on, Samp. You of all people should know that a sample size of two is not significant. Especially when your sample isn't random.
Considering how stupidly heated this debate gets, it's certainly possible that your audio engineers have irrationally strong feelings about Macs. I know folks on both sides who get unbelievably pissy when you mention whichever OS they dislike.
One of my lab friends (hey look I have an anecdote too!) is a hardcore PC user who dismisses Mac owners as "Macniacs" and hates Steve Jobs with a fiery passion. If he were the lone biologist you knew (and don't get me wrong - he's an excellent scientist, one of the "absolute best in the world" ), you'd also get the impression that all biologists loathe Macs and happily plug away on their Windows 7-powered machines all day. A survey of any biology department in the country would quickly demonstrate the erroneous-ness of your conclusion.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay:
quote:Originally posted by xtownaga:
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
I'm a computer science graduate student right now, and graduated with my BS in Comp. Sci. last year. In my experience, CS (at least as it exists in academia) is moving steadily toward Macs dominating. This is speaking both in terms of incoming students and the professors. There's a good reason for this too. You get UNIX with a better GUI than what Linux has been able to come up with. In terms of independently produced software, I have yet to find any open source software that won't compile and run without issue on my Mac. If I need to run some Windows software (and I don't remember the last time I did), I can run XP in a virtualized system with no problem, I suppose I could also use WiNE if I were so inclined. From a software perspective, if you're comfortable with a terminal, Macs are extremely versatile (and configurable, actually).
It's also worth noting that those who do use PCs in the CS world do most of their work in Linux.
In short, because of the vastly superior selection of open source software and the better terminal environment than Windows, and the larger selection of native commercial software/somewhat more polished GUI than linux make OS X one of the best, and most popular (and steadily growing more popular) platforms for Computer Science. Windows is in a distant third place.
I work in a very large tech company, and I've traveled a lot to quite a few vendors. Everyone uses Windows. First off, all business software is Windows (SAP, Oracle, government, etc) -- sure, Mac versions exist or emulation can be run, but I've never seem a company do it. There's no reason: Windows programs operate natively to Windows, the software coexists with the engineering software (Matlab, NI) and Windows ALWAYS gets the most current updates.
Sure, you have to run Unix servers and Linux emulation (which runs fine on Windows), but compatibility is king.
I laso have a Computer Science degree and I've worked in the IT field since 2001.
I have seen Apple products twice in all that time in the corporate environment, and one of those times was when I was interviewing at a school district. The other was an EXTREMELY SMALL subset of a very large client. We're talking maybe 1/10th of a percent of all their users were on Macs and even they were only on them due to an acquisition.
My clients have included: the US Federal government, the Dept of Defense, two medical labs, 2 credit card companies, an oil company, a hotel, a product testing company, a window and door manufacturer, valve manufacturer, pharmaceutical company, a city government. . . . as you can see I run the gamut.
I've been out of work since January. I've submitted 5+ resumes per day since then. The only place I've ever seen even ASK for Apple experience was that school district. Linux experience is asked for a heckuva lot more than Apple experience is.
I don't really care one way or t'other, I just think it's kind of amusing to hear the Apple-philes predicting their brand's dominance when it flies in the face of reality. Perhaps it will happen someday, but I doubt it will be "soon."
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools?
It's called marketing. Get over it. Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using. I never bitched that I had to use a PC at work. It's so childish.
quote: Just try explaining to my grandfather why he can't run 80% of the software that he wants to on his shiny new Mac.
Something is very amusing about the idea that your grandfather is both a ne'r do well idiot mac owner, and somehow also a power computer user with lots of important programs he needs to be using. Somehow he knows a lot about all those programs he wants, but not a lot about the hardware. That's odd, I think. Funny how I manage to get 100% of the programs I want on my mac... I must only want 20% of all available programs.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using.
Apparently you have missed the mounds of scorn heaped on PC users over the past couple decades. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using.
Apparently you have missed the mounds of scorn heaped on PC users over the past couple decades.
For reals. My sister got into macs because her husband liked them and now they are hardcore fans. They talked my dad into using macs and he loves them too now. So much that when they were trying to get laptops for their kids as they went off to college they didn't listen to me at all, and just bought macs all around.
It was mildly amusing for me to have purchased a dell, and over the next five years, watch them all have system crashes and hardware problems while I never dealt with a single issue. I never once rubbed their faces in it, but *every* time they visit and they see my Dell PC in the corner, or when I am tinkering on my ASUS Laptop (thanks for the recommendation Tom I really like it) they never fail to tell me how much my life must suck. It gets tiring.
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: It gets tiring.
All that tiredness must make your life suck. Maybe you should get a Mac? Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Godric:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: It gets tiring.
All that tiredness must make your life suck. Maybe you should get a Mac?
Ha! *grins*
That's not far from my perception of what Apple's current marketing thrust is.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using.
Apparently you have missed the mounds of scorn heaped on PC users over the past couple decades.
For reals. My sister got into macs because her husband liked them and now they are hardcore fans. They talked my dad into using macs and he loves them too now. So much that when they were trying to get laptops for their kids as they went off to college they didn't listen to me at all, and just bought macs all around.
It was mildly amusing for me to have purchased a dell, and over the next five years, watch them all have system crashes and hardware problems while I never dealt with a single issue. I never once rubbed their faces in it, but *every* time they visit and they see my Dell PC in the corner, or when I am tinkering on my ASUS Laptop (thanks for the recommendation Tom I really like it) they never fail to tell me how much my life must suck. It gets tiring.
Really? They all had massive problems did they? Seems everybody has a story to go with their brand of choice. I owned a dell for three years and had to have every single component in it replaced, including the motherboard, twice. I've owned plenty of macs and had fewer problems, not that I never had *any* problems. They are rather complex machines.
Sounds like your problem is with your family, not with their brand of choice. I've dealt with insufferable mac-haters in my family, but I guess because I own a mac, I don't have to go in for the insufferable Mac-owner speeches. Perhaps that's the sticking point- people do leave you alone if they think you already agree with them.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Godric:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: It gets tiring.
All that tiredness must make your life suck. Maybe you should get a Mac?
Ha! *grins*
That's not far from my perception of what Apple's current marketing thrust is.
Well, my mother just bought an android and is too intimidated to use any of the applications. There is something to be said for a device that serves the same function but has been painstakingly crafted to make it unintimidating. She's 60 years old, she's not going to devote a lot of mental resources to figuring out what her phone can do.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Why the heck did she buy a smartphone at all? People over 55 should just buy Jitterbugs.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
my mom's over 55 and she uses her htc hero just fine thank you very much (aside from getting it wet being an outfitter in the grand tetons)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
My first conversation with my mother (who's 62) after she bought her new phone:
"Hello?" "Hello? Tom?" "Mom?" "Hi, it's your mother! Am I texting?" "What?" "Am I texting right now?" "Um....No? Probably not. I don't think so." "How are we talking?" "We're, um, making sounds. With our mouths. Into phones. Probably?" "But this phone does texting!" "Okay. But this isn't that."
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Why the heck did she buy a smartphone at all? People over 55 should just buy Jitterbugs.
I don't know, verizon made it cheaper than anything else for an upgrade I think- it was some special offer from costco, and their sales reps are too lazy or incompetent to check that the customer is actually getting something that they need and or want to have.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: People over 55 should just buy Jitterbugs.
Maybe SOME people over 55.
Some day you'll have to meet my dad. Posted by xtownaga (Member # 7187) on :
quote:Originally posted by Magson:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay:
quote:Originally posted by xtownaga:
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: For any sort of technical discipline and most especially for computer science, it would be extremely foolish to restrict students to the Macintosh. The very strengths that make the platform more stable are the same ones that make it less flexible, cause it to offer less software (and far less independenly-produced software), and make it harder to access anything on a deeper level either to tinker or to gain a better understanding of how the machine works.
I'm a computer science graduate student right now, and graduated with my BS in Comp. Sci. last year. In my experience, CS (at least as it exists in academia) is moving steadily toward Macs dominating. This is speaking both in terms of incoming students and the professors. There's a good reason for this too. You get UNIX with a better GUI than what Linux has been able to come up with. In terms of independently produced software, I have yet to find any open source software that won't compile and run without issue on my Mac. If I need to run some Windows software (and I don't remember the last time I did), I can run XP in a virtualized system with no problem, I suppose I could also use WiNE if I were so inclined. From a software perspective, if you're comfortable with a terminal, Macs are extremely versatile (and configurable, actually).
It's also worth noting that those who do use PCs in the CS world do most of their work in Linux.
In short, because of the vastly superior selection of open source software and the better terminal environment than Windows, and the larger selection of native commercial software/somewhat more polished GUI than linux make OS X one of the best, and most popular (and steadily growing more popular) platforms for Computer Science. Windows is in a distant third place.
I work in a very large tech company, and I've traveled a lot to quite a few vendors. Everyone uses Windows. First off, all business software is Windows (SAP, Oracle, government, etc) -- sure, Mac versions exist or emulation can be run, but I've never seem a company do it. There's no reason: Windows programs operate natively to Windows, the software coexists with the engineering software (Matlab, NI) and Windows ALWAYS gets the most current updates.
Sure, you have to run Unix servers and Linux emulation (which runs fine on Windows), but compatibility is king.
I laso have a Computer Science degree and I've worked in the IT field since 2001.
I have seen Apple products twice in all that time in the corporate environment, and one of those times was when I was interviewing at a school district. The other was an EXTREMELY SMALL subset of a very large client. We're talking maybe 1/10th of a percent of all their users were on Macs and even they were only on them due to an acquisition.
My clients have included: the US Federal government, the Dept of Defense, two medical labs, 2 credit card companies, an oil company, a hotel, a product testing company, a window and door manufacturer, valve manufacturer, pharmaceutical company, a city government. . . . as you can see I run the gamut.
I've been out of work since January. I've submitted 5+ resumes per day since then. The only place I've ever seen even ASK for Apple experience was that school district. Linux experience is asked for a heckuva lot more than Apple experience is.
I don't really care one way or t'other, I just think it's kind of amusing to hear the Apple-philes predicting their brand's dominance when it flies in the face of reality. Perhaps it will happen someday, but I doubt it will be "soon."
You'll note, if you reread my post, that I'm specifically talking about CS as it exists in higher education. Looking back over the post I suppose I can see how this may not have been entirely clear toward the end of the post. I very much stand by the point I was trying to make that for CS as it exists in higher education, Macs are not only viable but common and (in my personal experience) increasingly preferred. I was specifically referring to the point made in the post I quoted regarding the idea that Macs are somehow significantly inferior choices for CS students.
The work you're likely to be doing as a CS student in higher education if anything favors Macs over Windows machines as there tends to be a lot of open source software, which is generally developed for use on Unix variants. Industry work is another story of course, as Windows simply dominates the market and therefore the customer base, but both this thread and my post are talking about Macs in a university setting, not a corporate one.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
No you were clear, he just totally ignored the point you were making in order to answer one you weren't. It happens.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using.
Apparently you have missed the mounds of scorn heaped on PC users over the past couple decades.
For reals. My sister got into macs because her husband liked them and now they are hardcore fans. They talked my dad into using macs and he loves them too now. So much that when they were trying to get laptops for their kids as they went off to college they didn't listen to me at all, and just bought macs all around.
It was mildly amusing for me to have purchased a dell, and over the next five years, watch them all have system crashes and hardware problems while I never dealt with a single issue. I never once rubbed their faces in it, but *every* time they visit and they see my Dell PC in the corner, or when I am tinkering on my ASUS Laptop (thanks for the recommendation Tom I really like it) they never fail to tell me how much my life must suck. It gets tiring.
Really? They all had massive problems did they? Seems everybody has a story to go with their brand of choice. I owned a dell for three years and had to have every single component in it replaced, including the motherboard, twice. I've owned plenty of macs and had fewer problems, not that I never had *any* problems. They are rather complex machines.
Sounds like your problem is with your family, not with their brand of choice. I've dealt with insufferable mac-haters in my family, but I guess because I own a mac, I don't have to go in for the insufferable Mac-owner speeches. Perhaps that's the sticking point- people do leave you alone if they think you already agree with them.
No, I pretty certain I have no problems with my family. I'm sure your Dell did have problems, I don't believe Dell is immune to poor manufacturing practices. I've happened to have good experiences with them so far, and after doing research decided which PCs I wanted to buy.
It just bugs me when Mac owners act like Macs tend to break less or are just higher quality overall, hence the price increase. I like to play games, thankfully the Mac is getting more love in that department. I don't dislike Macs at all. If I was recording music I'd get one. I use their macbooks every time I visit, so I'm pretty comfortable with using them.
I don't hate macs, my family is just so excited with how much they like their computers it's like a person discovering a new religion, thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread, and then going out and acting like everybody else who hasn't found their faith yet must be deficient.
edit: I drive a 2000 VW Passat, but I wouldn't tell anybody it's a must buy, nor would I buy it again if I could go back in time.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Seriously? They're happy with their computers and they want you to be part of their little club. It's all branding- Apple sells products and it sells image. I think the products happen to be pretty good. Perhaps if you liked your Passat a bit more or if it made you feel young again, you would be enthusiastic about the brand and recommend it to your friends. Again, heavens forbid that should ever happen.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Seriously? They're happy with their computers and they want you to be part of their little club. It's all branding- Apple sells products and it sells image. I think the products happen to be pretty good. Perhaps if you liked your Passat a bit more or if it made you feel young again, you would be enthusiastic about the brand and recommend it to your friends. Again, heavens forbid that should ever happen.
I don't get what you are trying to say at the very end.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
He's saying that he doesn't want your Passat to make you feel young again. Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: No you were clear, he just totally ignored the point you were making in order to answer one you weren't. It happens.
The problem is that educational institutions ARE using Macs and ignoring the fact that business DOESN'T. Sure, a bunch of elitist edu-nazis might be trying to decide that Mac isn't worthless -- but that isn't going to change corporate America.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools?
It's called marketing. Get over it. Why is it only mac-haters give a crap what kind of computers people are using. I never bitched that I had to use a PC at work. It's so childish.
quote: Just try explaining to my grandfather why he can't run 80% of the software that he wants to on his shiny new Mac.
Something is very amusing about the idea that your grandfather is both a ne'r do well idiot mac owner, and somehow also a power computer user with lots of important programs he needs to be using. Somehow he knows a lot about all those programs he wants, but not a lot about the hardware. That's odd, I think. Funny how I manage to get 100% of the programs I want on my mac... I must only want 20% of all available programs.
No, the problem is that my Grandfather listened to pro-Mac idiots and bought a Mac because "they're better" and "they don't crash". Then he goes down to the little church bookstore and buys software. Surprise, it doesn't work.
G: Why doesn't it work? M: Because you bought a Mac, Grandpa. G: I thought it was supposed to be better! Why won't it run the church programs. M: Most programs don't work on the Mac Grandpa. You have to get the special ones that do. G: Where do I get it? M: They don't make it for Mac. You'll have to run Windows on top of your Mac if you want to run it. G: <Blank stare> <Frustration> But I need it for church?!?!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You can't buy cool.
Apple (and others) make a lot of money trying to convince you that you can.
Posted by lobo (Member # 1761) on :
"No, the problem is that my Grandfather listened to pro-Mac idiots and bought a Mac because "they're better" and "they don't crash". Then he goes down to the little church bookstore and buys software. Surprise, it doesn't work.
G: Why doesn't it work? M: Because you bought a Mac, Grandpa. G: I thought it was supposed to be better! Why won't it run the church programs. M: Most programs don't work on the Mac Grandpa. You have to get the special ones that do. G: Where do I get it? M: They don't make it for Mac. You'll have to run Windows on top of your Mac if you want to run it. G: <Blank stare> <Frustration> But I need it for church?!?! "
Well, we all know that Macs and the liberals who use them are anti-religion...
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: No, the problem is that my Grandfather listened to pro-Mac idiots and bought a Mac because "they're better" and "they don't crash". Then he goes down to the little church bookstore and buys software. Surprise, it doesn't work.
Heh, again, a Mac hater story turns into "my granpa is an idiot." You don't think people who don't know anything about computers are capable of screwing up using a PC? Ok, sure. It's completely, but *completely* his fault for not checking on this first. That is not anybody who owns a mac's fault. Not the people who recommended it, not the marketing people, or the people who make it, not the salesman. That's *his* fault. Don't make it something it isn't.
quote:That's what Mac-tards remind me of. Apple's desktop market died with Windows 3.1.
AH, I see, you're just a one-note clown. Never mind.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: No you were clear, he just totally ignored the point you were making in order to answer one you weren't. It happens.
The problem is that educational institutions ARE using Macs and ignoring the fact that business DOESN'T. Sure, a bunch of elitist edu-nazis might be trying to decide that Mac isn't worthless -- but that isn't going to change corporate America.
It happens again and again and again...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What would change corporate America: better enterprise-level management tools and server systems. The low level of Macintosh adoption in business has nothing to do with the desktop interface and everything to do with Apple's general failure to address those needs.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: The more I think about it, the more I liken it to the Betamax. What if one film studio continued to make Betamax movies. Imagine all of the die-hards who would refuse to switch to VHS, then DVD, then Blu-Ray. "Betamax is the future, man".
That's what Mac-tards remind me of. Apple's desktop market died with Windows 3.1.
Referring to Mac users as "Mac-tards," "pro-Mac idiots," and all the other invective you've spewed in this thread is, I think you'll find, an extraordinarily ineffective way to make your point. It's clear that you started this thread with absolutely no intention of having a serious debate, but rather just to have an outlet to vent.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: The more I think about it, the more I liken it to the Betamax. What if one film studio continued to make Betamax movies. Imagine all of the die-hards who would refuse to switch to VHS, then DVD, then Blu-Ray. "Betamax is the future, man".
That's what Mac-tards remind me of. Apple's desktop market died with Windows 3.1.
Referring to Mac users as "Mac-tards," "pro-Mac idiots," and all the other invective you've spewed in this thread is, I think you'll find, an extraordinarily ineffective way to make your point. It's clear that you started this thread with absolutely no intention of having a serious debate, but rather just to have an outlet to vent.
You're absolutely correct. I felt the need to act childishly because I believed others were behaving childishly. I shouldn't let Orincoro bait me into that trap. He came off looking snarky, I came off like a child.
My only real point is this: in my experience, engineering, business, and the medical professions are 99.99% PC. It is illogical for colleges to teach on Macs.
[ July 29, 2010, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Herblay ]
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: [qb] No, the problem is that my Grandfather listened to pro-Mac idiots and bought a Mac because "they're better" and "they don't crash". Then he goes down to the little church bookstore and buys software. Surprise, it doesn't work.
Heh, again, a Mac hater story turns into "my granpa is an idiot." You don't think people who don't know anything about computers are capable of screwing up using a PC? Ok, sure. It's completely, but *completely* his fault for not checking on this first. That is not anybody who owns a mac's fault. Not the people who recommended it, not the marketing people, or the people who make it, not the salesman. That's *his* fault. Don't make it something it isn't.
Do you seriously believe that? A 70 year old man asks his family what kind of computer he should buy, because he has no clue, and several iPhone toting relatives sell him on the "wonders" of Apple. He only needs it for church stuff and the internet, but he'd like to run the grandkids' games and the software that they carry at the small country bookstore in the town that he lives in.
I acknowledge that your comments got me inflamed. I felt like it was a personal attack on my grandfather for some reason. Maybe because you're the one that called him an idiot. I admit that anyone can screw up a PC, heck even more easily than you can a Mac, but that wasn't my point.
It seems to me that you are oversimplifying the matter, but you're certainly entitled to your opinon.
Either way, we can argue the merits of a Mac until we're blue in the face. I acknowledged that the Mac had a legitimate audience. I just don't think they're for everyone, and that recommending them can cause problems.
[ July 29, 2010, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Herblay ]
Posted by Ryoko (Member # 4947) on :
My two cents:
I have both a Mac and a PC and enjoy using both for different reasons.
That being said, I don't think Mac desktops will ever be as widely used as PC.
Furthermore, the real question is how long will Apple continue in the desktop market?
With the various specialized devices (smart phones, iPads etc.) solving the computing needs of more and more people, it seems fairly obvious that desktop computers will become less and less important to Apple's business.
I think there will probably still be Apple desktops for enthusiasts in the future, but they will probably be produced in smaller numbers.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay:
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk:
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: The more I think about it, the more I liken it to the Betamax. What if one film studio continued to make Betamax movies. Imagine all of the die-hards who would refuse to switch to VHS, then DVD, then Blu-Ray. "Betamax is the future, man".
That's what Mac-tards remind me of. Apple's desktop market died with Windows 3.1.
Referring to Mac users as "Mac-tards," "pro-Mac idiots," and all the other invective you've spewed in this thread is, I think you'll find, an extraordinarily ineffective way to make your point. It's clear that you started this thread with absolutely no intention of having a serious debate, but rather just to have an outlet to vent.
You're absolutely correct. I felt the need to act childishly because I believed others were behaving childishly. I shouldn't let Orincoro bait me into that trap. He came off looking snarky, I came off like a child.
My only real point is this: in my experience, engineering, business, and the medical professions are 99.99% PC. It is illogical for colleges to teach on Macs.
Your last sentence assumes that the use of the Mac OS renders a computer user incapable of using any other operating system or learning to do so. It also assumes that college kids haven't seen a computer before going to college, and do not know how to do stuff on Windows, because college taught them the Mac way.
HINT: every single one of the 18 year old kids arriving at your school has probably been the at-home tech support for their parents since the age of eight. People who grew up with computers don't really need to be taught how to use different OSes. They taught themselves by reading the labels on all the buttons and picking the ones that worked.
Also, while (for instance) Office for Macs is slightly different, it still does the exact same thing on the PC version.
It's just old people who can't deal with something that's different that have a problem.
Meanwhile, the university IT department is free to purchase the computers people actually like using. Sorry.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
But if you're going to be using it for Linux/Unix anyway, why not use the computer that costs half as much (or less?)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
How many roads, must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Sterling: because there are fewer hardware and technical support issues (have you tried to administer a large number of student-controlled computers before?) and the productivity applications are better, to name a couple reasons.
Posted by Jenos (Member # 12168) on :
How do you know that more colleges use apple over microsoft? For example, my university(carnegie mellon) has far more PCs than macs. Does anyone have specific statistics that indicate colleges use macs much more than PC's, or is that one of those perceptions that may or may not be true in reality?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think the actual statistic (if it's real at all, but I think it is) is not that colleges use more Macs than PCs, but that colleges have a higher percentage of Macs than the general population does.
Posted by Epictetus (Member # 6235) on :
quote:Is there a good reason for the spread of Apples in schools?
I also go to the University of Utah and while I find that Macs are very prevalent on campus, there are still PCs scattered through the labs here and there. In my experience the reasoning behind the use of Macs ranges from the purely practical to the absurd.
For one, the iMacs on campus take up a lot less space than PCs. The way that the computer center in the Library is set up would be incredibly crowded and complicated by traditional PC towers.
On the other hand, another main reason that the Macs show up on campus has to do with what the administration perceives as cool. Universities work really hard to present an image of modern and hip. The logic seems to go that if the student's think Apple is cool then having Apples on campus will draw students to the college. Marketing also plays a lot into this. Apple wants their products prevalent among their chosen market and makes deals and pitches to University administrators all the time. University administrators, you should understand, are strange creatures that have very little understanding of the modern world and are likely to listen to any sales pitch that gets run past them. Especially if they see the potential of improving the image of the campus (and thus rake in more donations) and if the company making the pitch has loads of cash themselves (make corporation happy=potential future funding). The same could have happened for PCs, with the right marketing campaign.
The other reason I've encountered simply has to do with whether the head of a department is a Mac person or a PC person. If they're a Mac person, then they'll buy Macs when it's time to replace their computers. If they're a PC person then they'll want PCs in their department.
So there you have it, there are some practical concerns, but there are also some ridiculous concerns. Either way, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Use whatever computer you like and don't worry about what anyone thinks.
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If I was a serious PC gamer I might think differently.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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