I know because I forgot I had pre-ordered it, and it just charged to my bank account. Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I thought it was supposed to be the 27th?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Yeah it shouldn't be at your doorstep any earlier then the 27th. Though some places like 7-11 get copies and often their employees don't know about not selling them until release date and when asked about them will often go into the back and get you copies.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Huh. Good news, it'll be arriving earlier than I thought. Bad news, it's too late to reroute it to LA where I'll be during the week of launch so I can play during Siggraph. Good news: I won't be distracted by StarCraft II during Siggraph.
Win?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Guess it isn't here yet. Darn.
Launch date is the 27th, but they took the cash out earlier.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
BlackBlade, there is an excellent chance I will stop at many 7-11s that I pass to see if this is true. Given that they're 7-11s and I pass like a half dozen of them in 20m, this will be a bit bothersome.
If you're wrong, I'm afraid there will be repurcussions!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It should be here today, or tomorrow at the latest!
wOOt!
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
Has anyone noticed the names of the moons of Tarsonis?
Came home from work today and found my husband had purchased and installed Starcraft II for me. Now, two hours and three missions later, I'm still pretty thrilled.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
@Avin: awesome! Laughed out loud here.
Posted by Cookie Crisp (Member # 12312) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: @Avin: awesome! Laughed out loud here.
QFT! I'm surprised one isn't Harmony...
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm about four missions in and I had to make myself stop.
Avin: That's awesome! I sent off an email letting Mr. Card know.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'm physically twitching because I'm not playing.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
a lot of these planets/moons have pretty funny names Folsom(a prison planet) and Sue. Pyramis and Thisby...
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I played quite a bit yesterday and I'm hooked. The single player mode is everything I was hoping for. I've been presented with a few decisions and have wondered whether or not I made the right ones, but I guess I will see.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
So far there was only one decision I had to make, ethically speaking: which faction to side with in a given mission. The only immediate results I could see were different research bonus points and a different cutscene. The faction I fought against seemed pretty amiable about the whole thing, so *shrug*.
Other than that, the only choices I've had to make so far are strictly gaming choices. Do I put my research money into this or that? Which research tree do I investigate? Etc. I'm interested to see how the ethical choice I made factors in if at all, and if there are more to come.
This is shaping up to be the best single-player RTS I've come across, bar none.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Hm. Too bad I have lots of homework to do. Otherwise I'd probably be playing this game.. ARGH
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
Really enjoying the SP. Played about 9 or 10 missions last night.
Haven't really noticed any choices regarding plot yet. There are choices in which order to do some missions in, but I don't think doing one mission precludes you from coming back and doing the other.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: So far there was only one decision I had to make, ethically speaking: which faction to side with in a given mission. The only immediate results I could see were different research bonus points and a different cutscene. The faction I fought against seemed pretty amiable about the whole thing, so *shrug*.
Other than that, the only choices I've had to make so far are strictly gaming choices. Do I put my research money into this or that? Which research tree do I investigate? Etc. I'm interested to see how the ethical choice I made factors in if at all, and if there are more to come.
This is shaping up to be the best single-player RTS I've come across, bar none.
So without spoiling anything.... Spectres or Ghosts?
As far as the research trees, I've been torn on a few of them. Do I research the mass transport or the ground unit? Do I go with the instant Vespene Gas or being able to build 2 SCV's at once? Tough decisions for me.
In the end I went with instant Vespene Gas just because I won't NEED SCV's, and I went with the huge transport ship because it looks like it can take a large amount of punishment. I figured I could use it more, as there are already more than enough ground units for Terrans.
I will admit the cut scenes are nothing short of amazing. It has a western feel to it.
I also think it is hilarious that (slight non-story related spoiler) they have a hologram of a dancing night elf in the cantina and a commercial for L800 ETC! (Level 800 Elite Tauren Chieftain, Blizzard's in house band)
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
I really am enjoying the option of what units and buildings you want to upgrade. I've always hated firebats, so didn't upgrade a thing on them. But upgraded the marines, medics and marauders which when used together and with stim packs are quite a force.
Personally I don't think upgrading the reapers is worth it. They are a harass unit, which can be useful in MP, but the AI isn't really slowed down by that.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by TrapperKeeper: Personally I don't think upgrading the reapers is worth it. They are a harass unit, which can be useful in MP, but the AI isn't really slowed down by that.
They saved my butt in one of the early storyline missions when you help the doctor lady. They are amazing at destroying buildings, and when you have to destroy dozens of them during a mission they really come in handy.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Firebats are incredibly handy against the zerg, though.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I'm loving these diamondbacks!!! I'll chase down trains ANY day!
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
*sigh*
I wish EA hadn't screwed up the C&C franchise so badly. Here I see echos of what might have been...
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: I'm loving these diamondbacks!!! I'll chase down trains ANY day!
Diamondbacks are nice. I also like the upgrade to marauders that slow the enemy. It really comes in handy when Protoss Zealots are trying to use their rush skill.
I got Banshees last night. Those things are awesome. I get 8 of those and 8 vikings and I am almost unstoppable. Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I haven't gotten too far in the campaign yet, but I've really liked the reapers. They pack together really tightly, and I've found them really effective massed. I can't wait to try dropping them on enemies resource fields.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Nice....I like this game a lot, even though I am only through a few missions.
I also have trouble with my laptop overheating.....it isn't really meant to run this level of game, even on low. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm pretty far in and seriously the missions just keep getting better and better for me.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am on mission 8 now, but they have been fairly easy up to this point.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I got Banshees last night too, I They're pretty awesome, but nothing has rocked my world so much as the Thor with teh upgrade that makes me able to rebuild on the battlefield. Banshees + Thor? sigh... so much fun
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
Spoilers for mission 3 below; just regarding the achievements though - nothing to do with the storyline or even them main mission object.
Does anyone know if in the campaign missions, if when you replay a mission later on to try to get an achievement you missed, you get to keep any upgrades you got since then?
I've heard varying reports.
I just started playing last night, and played three missions. On the first two missions I got all three achievements easily, but on the third mission, on Hard difficulty, I didn't get the Hard-difficulty achievement for killing four hatcheries; I killed three of them before time ran out and couldn't get to a fourth in time, just the normal difficulty bonus achievement for not losing any buildings.
So if I just advance in the campaign for now, basically I just want to know if I'll be able to come back to the mission to get that achievement with the benefit of at least some of the upgrades I've gotten, even if not all of them, or if there's no point in trying and I should just redo the mission now and try harder to get that last achievement.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Has anyone been able to get voice chat to work?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Mumble?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Vent?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'd just use vent. I haven't tried the in-game voice chat. Speaking of which, why haven't I friended all of you?
I'm BlackBlade on battle.net. Character code 577. If you try to add me leave a short message saying who you are on Hatrack. We should totally do some one on ones, but even better are Hatrackers V World.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am Kwea, of course. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Need your character code too. There are probably other BlackBlades and Kweas so each person is also given a character code.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
lol, I'm Armoth. Where are character codes?
Posted by Philosofickle (Member # 10993) on :
Hey, I'm playing as often as I can and I'm wondering if anybody on here would like to do multiplayer games with me.
Philosofickle@gmail.com
look me up.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: lol, I'm Armoth. Where are character codes?
When you attempt to add a friend it should say your character number in the top right. I don't think it shows up right as you click add friend, I think you have to click "add realid"
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Juxtapose 203
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Finally got to start playing. The single most impressive thing to me is how oppressive and terrifying the Zerg feel in the campaign. The way they use day/night sequences and continuously pour more and more zerg at you, while the creep spreads towards your base, is awesome.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Stop making this game sound like so much fun. I don't think I have a computer with the right specs to play it. I bought a new laptop about a year ago, but I didn't upgrade the graphics card when I got it. If only I'd thought ahead.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I'll look mine up later...pulled an overnight shift last night and I am wiped out.
Played quite a bit, on Char now. Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Also on Char. Set up a disastrous defense, had to restart, set up a GREAT defense...still had to restart...
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'm playing on a 2.5 year old Macbook pro with and its working okay. Not sure how that compares to the average PC laptop.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I finished the campaign and....wow. The story was amazing. Great storytelling by Blizzard. I have never played an RTS with a story that made you feel so involved. I can't wait until the Zerg campaign is released!
Most games drop you into a mission with objectives, but this game really made you feel like it all mattered on you, and that you were actually making a difference.
I did not manage my money well through the campaign. I purchased all of the mercenaries and did not have enough money to upgrade some of my other units near the end, but that is what second play throughs are for!
NON-Spoiler Hint!!
- There is a secret mission that you can access during the "Media Blitz" mission. At the start of the level, take the unit you are controlling to the bottom right corner of the map and you will find a science facility. Destroy it and it will drop some secret documents. Pick them up and finish the level, and you will access the secret mission.
You cant unlock it if you have already finished the mission though, so make sure you do it before moving on!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
My laptop was locking up when I played at first, but now isn't. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad one.
I can't wait to play it on a machine that can handle high graphics, where I can watch all of the cut scenes, as that is where mine locks up.....I just skip the longs ones now. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Mine is Kwea 492
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I should totally box in everyone who posts their ID here with "Kwea 429," and Kwea 482" and such like, then proceed to play very poorly, all in my ultimate scheme to lull hatrackers into a false sense of security before placing a rather large wager on myself in the international battle.net competitions, and then having my long lost grandson, playing as "Orinoco" sweep in and steal my thunder, wrecking my great triumph and destroying my perfect game before going on to....
:transmission interrupt:
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
So guys,
Nidus network or nest? I went Nidus myself and that mission was a blast. Also not having nidus network around (which apparently on the final battle gets progressively harder) really helped out. But I won the final battle by the skin of my teeth. It was pretty sloppy though.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:So far there was only one decision I had to make, ethically speaking: which faction to side with in a given mission. The only immediate results I could see were different research bonus points and a different cutscene. The faction I fought against seemed pretty amiable about the whole thing, so *shrug*
Just got to this mission. I was amazed how easy they made the "moral choice." The protoss aren't like "Raynor you jerk why are you attacking us" they're just "yeah.... let's fight WOOHOOOOO!!!!!"
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
So, I bought this game the day it came out.
However, then I was out of town two days, had to work the next day, then was out of town for the last THREE days...
so I've only done two missions and about a half dozen online skirmishes in the practice league, plus about a half dozen AI skirmishes, and only have, like, 150 or so points total for achievements. Sigh. I'm so far behind...
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: So guys,
Nidus network or nest? I went Nidus myself and that mission was a blast. Also not having nidus network around (which apparently on the final battle gets progressively harder) really helped out. But I won the final battle by the skin of my teeth. It was pretty sloppy though.
I took out the nest. I probably could have defended against those units easier, especially when 5 Nydus worms would pop up out of the ground and start spitting out zerg. Luckily I had banshees over my base spread out to take out the worms as soon as they spawned, and about 5 battlecruisers that did nothing but shoot their Yamato cannon at the "special" unit that attacks your base.
What really helped out on this mission was my hive emulators that I had researched. Seeing a group of zerg come towards you is less threatening when you mind control their ultralisk and let him do the dirty work. By the end of the mission I think I had 4 or 5 of them, with a team of medics to heal them up.
GREAT ending to the campaign, and I can't wait for part 2!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Rakeesh and I are undefeated! Here's a writeup,
The first game we were all ready for a rush but nothing showed up so Rakeesh made with the backdoor drop off while I attacked with Thors from the front. We managed to kill a secondary nexus and Rakeesh got a primary nexus before being wiped out. They attacked with those protoss walkers at the same time and walked right into my base, wiping out the turrets I'd built for their carriers. Fortunately Rakeesh and I (mostly Rakeesh) were able to rebuild forces enough to chase them away. We then rebuilt and with a lucky comm station sweep I found an exp base right next to my Thors that was just constructed so I killed it. Rakeesh then took the brunt of their second wave and I came in from behind and cleaned up. We then pushed to their bases and killed everything.
The second game we decided to rush for it. I went reapers and Rakeesh went marines/mauraders. My reapers managed to take out the nexus and main pylons as well as all his zealots who can't keep up with rocket pack upgraded reapers. In all the excitement I had failed to notice one of them had built reapers too, and they had killed all my scvs. They got greedy and went for Rakeesh' instead of killing my buildings, whereupon Rakeesh's marines tore them a new one. I was really messed up. As I rebuilt, he hit me again with reapers, and rakeesh saved my bacon again. By the time I manage to rebuild, get an exp base out, and finally churn out a Thor Rakeesh dropped in from behind and leveled the Terran player's comm center and defensive force. I managed to catch his reapers from above one by one. The guy brought in his attack force and Rakeesh killed them too, whereupon the guy quit and we emerged victorious! ----
Yeah to deal with fliers all I needed were turrets by the artifact, and problem neutralized.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
My name/code is Raemon 502. I'll be on later tonight if anyone's up.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Hey everyone,
Add me on your REAL ID list.
vanielmage@gmail.com
(btw, Duane is not my real name. I got the account a day after WoW was released from a work friend that tried it and hated it, so its been mine ever since..My real name is Bryce)
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I might give pvp a try, but my system will probably slow everyone else down too much.
I use the mouse to control everyone, and a number of my friends are amazed I play so well that way. Apparently they all use a bunch of macro's....legal ones, assigning buttons and what not. Anyone here use those? If so, what for?
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I thought I would be able to run the game at full settings with my 8800GT's....I couldn't
So when I get home there should be a box with two GTX 460's waiting for me!
I've been due an upgrade for a while, and this seemed like the best time. The wife signed off on it since we just dropped a ton of money so she can go visit her family in Albania. She leaves tonight and I took tomorrow off, which means a Starcraft 2 marathon!
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
I chose the nest, because I hate Broodlords with a passion. Mutas are nothing more than gnats. Poison glaive spitting gnats. And every Char mission was so gloriously messy. I loved it.
Also, similar love for the 'End of Days Battle' (trying to avoid spoilers, sort of). I treated it like the Alamo... giving up ramps and areas as I had to, and giving up ground as I had to as the fight wore on.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Wowzers, I just finished my placement matches for 1v1 and got the very bottom of Bronze League. This makes me particularly sad because I was in the middle of Gold during the beta.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Wowzers, I just finished my placement matches for 1v1 and got the very bottom of Bronze League. This makes me particularly sad because I was in the middle of Gold during the beta.
I'm not ready to take the leap away from practice, my 1v1 is horrendous.
Anyway my friend stuff is, Xan 673 mrxwyatt@gmail.com
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
So I bought it monday, and left it in the suburbs with my little brother who is in love with it. I played the first couple missions before I left, and I just love the campaign menu thingie: at the bar on Mar Sara. Didn't get far enough to get onto the Hyperion.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
well, sad day: placed at the very bottom of bronze
glad day: got to win like 10 games in a row
Rakeesh and I played a few games last night, and we seem to have generally comparable skill so that was pretty cool... or would have been, if my computer didn't crash like every single time.
I've found that on the Mac side of my laptop, the game doesn't crash, but it often runs slow. On the windows side it runs beautifully, but crashes all the time. Lol.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I use the mouse exclusively, and some of my friends in SC seem amazed that I can do that and still play well. I guess they assign buttons and macros, but I can't seem to get the hang of it, or even figure out why that would be so much better.
Does anyone here set up button assignments and macros? If so, for what type of things, and how effective are they?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
You don't need to assign buttons, just use the already existing hotkeys. (Whenever you mouse over a button there should be a highlighted letter that tells you what hotkey it is).
Also, are you using control groups? That's another thing that saves HUGE amounts of time, since you can assign each group of buildings a control group and keep your entire base churning out units without ever leaving the battle area.
You move around with the mouse to click on buildings, and then you keep your left hand (maybe right if you're left handed) on the keyboard so that as soon as you click on barracks, you immediately start training dudes instead of waiting a second for your mouse to get back to the button area.
What's you online ranking? My guess is you can progress towards the top of Gold with the mouse, after that you're dealing with people who are good enough that it's not really possible to be better than them if you're constantly losing time moving between the battlefield and the button GUI.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I don't know about comparable levels of skill, but I am getting better. Placed 100 in Silver league after placement, but now am 32, I believe, steadily increasing. How does one go about moving up leagues? Does it just happen when you do well enough?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I've played a lot of 2v2, although never with a random partner. I've only played one 1v1 game -- my first placement match. I won as zerg against a terran player.
I kind of want to never play a 1v1 again in order to leave my perfect win record unsullied. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Going up in Leagues happens automatically, but I think it takes longer than progressing up through a league does.
I generally sort StarCraft players into three tiers, which are related but not entirely based on actual "good-ness." The newb tier is people who sit around teching up to battlecruisers and get mad when people rush before they had assembled their giant fleet.
The middle tier generally know how to defend against a rush (even if they don't always get the defense up perfectly), and when they lose a game they can usually understand why they lost. They might not know all the best strategies but they understand how to evaluate strategies properly. The main thing that separates a "good" middle-tier person from a "bad" one is their ability to macro out a big army, without getting complacent. Individual unit micro can come into play but ultimately won't matter until you've mastered the macro. I don't know what either of our win-percentages would be against each other, but I think we're both in this general category and improvements we make in the near future will be incremental mastery of macro.
I don't know if there's a specific binary difference between middle and "Pro" players, but the best players basically spend every single second of the game executing multiple orders so that they never stop building new units, never have buildings that sit not doing anything, never stop expanding, all while having time to continuously attack with micromanaged strategy. I understand what goes into this, but my brain just doesn't work on a level where I can keep track of that much stuff and I'm not sure if it ever will.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Incidentally, I'm Ajar/587.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Does anyone here set up button assignments and macros? If so, for what type of things, and how effective are they?
If a game goes to my getting starports, I'm using at least...six CTRL+# groups. One is for my army, usually massed mixed infantry 40+ and a half-dozen or more medivacs. Two is for the medivacs themselves*. If it goes to the point where I build a second army, three and four go to similar builds. Six is an air force of vikings. Seven and eight are barracks and starports, and 0 are my various orbital commands and command centers.
It makes a big difference once it starts being done even somewhat well. Not only is it faster, but it lets you actually pay more attention to the map which can be vital for noticing things like bad guys flitting through the edge of your sensor tower radius, or seeing them come at your base and massing troops effectively. The difference of a second you were spending at your barracks clicking the 'Marauder' button and a wiped-out expansion or gatherer army is can be just a moment or two.
*With bio-armies for Terrans, hotkeys are vital also. One for the whole group including medivacs gets them going where I need to. One hotkey, though, is for just the medivacs, crucial for when they a) venture too far ahead, or b) start getting targeted specifically by your enemies. Keep your medivacs at the back of a 50+ army of constantly-stimmed infantry, and, well, the losses will be minimal and the payoff will be huge. Anyway, those are just a couple of examples, and really they're not very difficult to learn. I need to work on a) responding appropriately and b) keeping my base going while attacking.
ETA:
quote:but the best players basically spend every single second of the game executing multiple orders so that they never stop building new units, never have buildings that sit not doing anything, never stop expanding, all while having time to continuously attack with micromanaged strategy. I understand what goes into this, but my brain just doesn't work on a level where I can keep track of that much stuff and I'm not sure if it ever will.
One example of such a strategy is that smart players - I don't know how accurate this is - will never even have a building sitting and doing nothing, they will farm out expansions until they have all they could possibly need, in case they need another barrack, factory, or starport.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Woo! Gold! Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Currently ranked 30-40ish in my diamond division for solo, but to be honest I am not that great at this game.
By the way here is a great video for Protoss players who are looking for strategies to use in online play. This strategy got me all the way into the diamond division with about a 2:1 win/loss ratio. It's a very viable opening in all 3 match ups in my opinion.
So, Spectres vs. Ghosts, aside from the units offered in the rest of the game, is there any story impact, or is this like the other choice with no impact? I'll be siding with Nova, since Tosh didn't even trouble to deny her accusations, but I am curious.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yeah, I added the quick fix, hopefully it will stop my comp from overheating. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Stil haven't gotten to specters vs ghosts. Curious as to whether Nova will be adding ANOTHER love interest to the mix. (I liked Ariel at first, but her lines quickly got really lame and her departure at Haven was nauseating).
I'm wondering if the overheating thing resulted in my "periodic shut downs" on the windows side. Mac side seems overall safer, so I think I'm gonna have to stay there even if it runs a little slower.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
Oh, I'm Avin/583.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
So, this game is a blast. I've done ten missions so far, all on hard mode. I think it's improved my multiplayer, as before I couldn't win, but since I played 8-9 one player missions I won three, disconnected once (counts as a loss) and was creamed once. Fun!
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Also, my character name is Durandel. (Yes. I misspelled Durendal, Roland's sword from The Song of Roland. Sigh. Maybe I should have gone with Joyeuse instead, Charlemagne's sword... I wouldn't have misspelled it.)
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
The only hotkeys I use are for the gateway's teleporty thing, having 6-10 instant units is great.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
TherionMEC/707
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I still don't even know how the warp gate thing works.
On the plus side, I think I found out why my laptop kept seizing, and I may have a way to stop it from happening again. On the down side....it's because my laptop fan doesn't work. I even downloaded Speedfan, and it says my rpm's are at 0.
I bought a laptop cooling pad, and even playing this game I never went about 86 C, MUCH cooler than it was, by at least 10 degrees.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
You research warp gates, you click the "convert to warp gate" button, then you click on the unit buttons on any given warp gate and then click anywhere in your power grid.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:So far there was only one decision I had to make, ethically speaking: which faction to side with in a given mission. The only immediate results I could see were different research bonus points and a different cutscene. The faction I fought against seemed pretty amiable about the whole thing, so *shrug*
Just got to this mission. I was amazed how easy they made the "moral choice." The protoss aren't like "Raynor you jerk why are you attacking us" they're just "yeah.... let's fight WOOHOOOOO!!!!!"
I just now got to this mission as well (only get to play an hour or two a day at most), and I actually played both "choices" : I saved, picked one, played through it, loaded, picked the other one, and played through it. I have to say the choice you both clearly made above is definitely the harder of the two mission-wise, and also felt the least rewarding story-wise. So I'm going to keep playing with the opposite choice.
(It's annoying not having a spoiler tag on these forums.)
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I don't mind harder missions, but I actually did think the story was pretty lame-ending. I don't know if either of the endings end up having ramifications later on. (Well, I know that one of them does because I accidently looked at the map editor, but I don't know if that's an actual major repercussion or just a few extra minutes of cut-scene).
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I don't mind harder missions, but I actually did think the story was pretty lame-ending. I don't know if either of the endings end up having ramifications later on. (Well, I know that one of them does because I accidently looked at the map editor, but I don't know if that's an actual major repercussion or just a few extra minutes of cut-scene).
Wait, what do you mean? Is there another cut-scene I don't know about?
I did the secret mission last night...Awesome mission. The second half of it really gave me a sense of urgency. It kind of pushes you into timing certain abilities right in order to survive.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Is there any way to get the secret mission if you already beat the "Media Blitz" mission? Or do I have to start alllll over? Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Just moved up from 1v1 silver to gold! Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: Is there any way to get the secret mission if you already beat the "Media Blitz" mission? Or do I have to start alllll over?
Nope, you have to do the campaign over, or load up a game in which you haven't completed it yet.
IF you don't have a manually saved game, just play through the required missions again on casual difficulty. If you don't care about achievements you can use the cheats to finish the quickly:
terribleterribledamage : Makes all your units invincible and lets them kill most stuff in one hit
sosayweall: Tech requirements disabled, you can build any unit without an addon.
moredotsmoredots: Units and buildings are free to build.
That should let you get back to the Media Blitz mission pretty quickly.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well...since I bought a laptop cooling pad, my laptop has not frozen once. Hell, it is barely even WARM now.
Guess that means my fan burned out a while ago, and I never noticed because I don't use it for graphic intense things much. Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
The Liquipedia II has lots of helpful tips and articles.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I just got into the editor. I'm simultaneously really excited and disappointed. There was a particular story/game/map I wanted to make involving two psychic characters who had no particular weapons/armor (it was gonna be vaguely portal like, in that they're two civilians trapped in a testing facility and have to use their powers to get out).
The editor does come with plenty of models, and I'm glad that I can finally focus on game design for once as oppose to having to needing to do the graphics in tandem. But the few models that could potential work (the civilians, scientists and prisoners) have really terrible animation and don't work very well as main characters.
I have plenty of other ideas (the editor community is not exactly lacking people making maps about ghost powers, but I think my take on it would have been fairly original). I'm also pretty sure the editor supports importing new models and animations, so I can do that too. But I had particularly hoped I'd be able to get rolling on this right away.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I finally figured out a little bit about pvp, and won 18 of my last 21 matches.
I am half way though the bronze ladder, after starting near the bottom.
My overall record is 21-23, which should tell you haw bad I was sucking. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
As was explained to me, and has borne out now that I've played, your record is supposed to be pretty close to 1:1 win:loss. Even at the top of my platinum league, the ratio is only about 1.5:1 win-loss. You're getting matched up on the basis of points, and since you gain or lose points based on wins and losses in matches that are ranked, well, it handles itself quite nicely. But you can go to Match History after a game and check your opponent, to have some idea how well you ought to have done. The real indicators are how well you do when the system shuffles in a higher- or lower-ranked opponent, to test your skill or theirs.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
Hi all. I'd love to get in on some games. My ID is Palimpsest / 594
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
After playing, like, 38 matches in the practice leagues, I finally went and got myself placed.
And I placed Silver League! Grizzly Beta division. Whatever that means.
Anyway, it's better than bronze, but I'm not as good as many players. I'll improve, and I have been. Durandel is the handle.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am up to the top 30 in my bronze league, all from wins in the past 2 days.
However, even though I can connect to the internet (obviously), and I played yesterday on this same wireless network, I can't connect to battlenet.com right now.
Hmmm....looks like they began maintenance on the servers, so it might be a while before the .net is back up. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I just broke even last night. 28-28. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I lost a match today because I had to leave my computer 4 times during the match to take care of my patient.
I STILL almost won. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I played some 2v2 with Juxt last night, and we SUCK. We won 1 of 4, and 2 of those we really got our butts kicked. The last one....well, before he died Juxt pretty much ruined one of the players, but I didn't know it. I could have pushed out, but I turtled just to piss them off.
I wrecked 4 fleets sent against me, but had I known they were in such bad condition I probably could have won it, or at least made a good bid for it.
2v2 likes to pick maps where you can't block off the entrances, so it makes it tough to defend against a zerg rush.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
You can still block off your own, smaller entraces nicely, and just an SCV on auto-repair and patrol along with even two or three marines can defeat surprisingly large numbers of zerglings in the first few minutes...during which time you're still cranking out marines to the point where you can retaliate. That's a big trick in Starcraft 2: if you defeat an attack to the point of actually destroying it, retaliate immediately or at least as quickly as you can, even with a small force, because there's a great chance it will be enough.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
That retaliation lesson - I'm starting to learn that lesson. I'm trying to master auto-creating units with hot-keys so that while I'm winning a battle I have enough reinforcements to do some serious follow-through
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I actually don't think Kwea and I did too poorly. We were doing placement matches, and our first two were just unfair. One big problem was that we weren't scouting, so we couldn't react to our opponents.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
ID is: zaxfary@hotmail
Would love to play anyone here.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yeah, we did OK. We did have 2 maps over 3 of the matches where the openings were HUGE, even to our own little places.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Okay, this is getting silly.
I've been playing Zerg, and got three Protoss opponents in a row. They all beat me, and I don't understand how! I've played Protoss, and yet they build units so fast. I'm building as fast as is physically possible, yet I can't do anything to match them. Even units I know counter their units. Even when I have more units to start. They just steamroll me and I don't know how. Even watching the replays, I don't see what they're doing. Except the guy who just built defenses right next to my base because he "hated Zerg players" or something.
I just... I don't understand! As Terran I always seem to beat Protoss. But I want to play Zerg, not Terrans. I've even been practicing build order and speed to get a large military up as fast as possible. Yet they have huge armies practically at the start! How do they afford it? Especially with how expensive Protoss units are!
I'm just so frustrated. I don't understand!
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I don't get it. Do better players play at night or something? Am I not at full speed? How can I keep losing constantly against every single player? What is wrong with this? This doesn't even make sense and this many losses in a row is just beyond me! I just don't understand how everyone can do everything so much faster! I build everything as fast as I have minerals, how do they do it?
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I don't get it. Do better players play at night or something? Am I not at full speed? How can I keep losing constantly against every single player? What is wrong with this? This doesn't even make sense and this many losses in a row is just beyond me! I just don't understand how everyone can do everything so much faster! I build everything as fast as I have minerals, how do they do it?
Watch videos of experts playing and take note of their build orders. I used to think I had plenty of SCVs until I watched a few of those.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah in your replays compare your worker counts. Also factor in chronoboost. Are you using your queens for more larvae?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I find Zerg the hardest to play because they are completely unforgiving about the Queen. Chronoboost and Mule calldown you can forget for a few minutes and then do a bunch at once. Queens you MUST remember to spawn extra larvae at each hatchery every 30 seconds (minute?) or you will just lose.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Forgot to post this: Armoth 983
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Chronoboost and Mule calldown you can forget for a few minutes and then do a bunch at once.
I use the boost several times in the first few minutes and then forget it exists for the rest of the game...
I need a checklist of crap I was supposed to be doing during the game to train myself better.
I got into the Gold league in 1v1 after placement, but I need to improve a lot to stay there I think.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
I just got it and I'm awful. Zulfiqar if anyone wants to play with someone awful.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I don't get it. Do better players play at night or something? Am I not at full speed? How can I keep losing constantly against every single player? What is wrong with this? This doesn't even make sense and this many losses in a row is just beyond me! I just don't understand how everyone can do everything so much faster! I build everything as fast as I have minerals, how do they do it?
Also, if you upload your replays and post links, maybe some of us here can give you concrete suggestions from looking at your play.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
One of the biggest things for Protoss, which is all I am playing right now, is that if there is a pylon anywhere in the map, and they went with warp gates (which I think everyone does), they can warp in fully formed units ANYWHERE within that pylons field. No need to march them, or wait for them to build.
That means we burn though a TON or resources with away though. If you can hold off a rush, then retaliate within 1-2 min, you can beat us.
Maybe. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Avin and I just played a 2v2 tonight, and won. We played Zerg/Protoss vs Protess/Terran.
I had 5 warp gates by the time the opposing prot player had 2, and I had void rays cooking too. We forced him to go all Striders, and he basically ran out of Vespene,
We would have won earlier, but I burned though all of my resources, and I made a rookie mistake. I accidentally blocked my entrance completely off so I couldn't get a probe out to start a new base. I actually had to build a robotics bay just to airlift out probes so I could build pylons and warp my forces to help Avin. Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Wow. I was really, really upset last night. I think it being late at night was a problem.
The weird thing last night was that people were attacking me very early on. No matter how early I made a spawning pool, an opponent Zerg had one faster. Protoss crushed me. As Terran I'm much better, I think. I've lost a lot less, at least.
Zerg is a really intensive race, though. You have to keep watch on pretty much everything. Though their base defenses are way more useful. Still, the fact that every building uses a worker makes things harder too. But I like playing as them better than Terrans. Terrans almost feel too easy.
Also, I think I'll upload some replays and send some links soon. Might be helpful. Thanks for the tips everyone. I know a lot of it already, but it's execution that's important.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Actually, speaking of that, I found a great weakness of Terrans.
The zergling rush is deadly. Heck, I only used a very few... but he couldn't stop it and the battle was done in six minutes.
Now that's a morale booster. Not being dead tired really helps.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
It really depends on the map-the ones with the larger ramps, zergling rushes can be deadly, but those with narrower ramps can be easily walled up and your zerglings won't be able to do squat.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: It really depends on the map-the ones with the larger ramps, zergling rushes can be deadly, but those with narrower ramps can be easily walled up and your zerglings won't be able to do squat.
Send banelings in to destroy walls, then send the 'lings.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Well, luckily I was shown a few new things by a friend on the game through some practice matches, so I think it'll help.
And in actual games, I was even able to stop an early Protoss void ray attack in a match game and win.
I'd lost another game because I hadn't set my anti-air defense quite fast enough. If he'd been ten seconds later, or I'd defended my main base with anti-air first (last time I fail to do that!) my anti-air would have been online. It probably would have stopped him. But, I didn't, so he blew them up before they were finished. The game ended right there, honestly. Not enough hydras, either.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
The guy on there who helped me was really nice, actually. You'd all like him. He showed me step-by-step on improving my early rush, and showed me a little about interpreting what I saw when scouting. Basic stuff, but it helped me. And I was able to beat him in our second real match thanks to it. I hope to play 2v2 with him, because he was good fun.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Yay! Ranked silver in 1v1, finally realized the importance of broodlords...
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by T:man:
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: It really depends on the map-the ones with the larger ramps, zergling rushes can be deadly, but those with narrower ramps can be easily walled up and your zerglings won't be able to do squat.
Send banelings in to destroy walls, then send the 'lings.
ONly works if they use a really small wall, and don't have scv's repairing. But a lot of players don't.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Send banelings in to destroy walls, then send the 'lings.
Yes, I'm familiar with the baneling bust. If the Terran just sits tight in his base defending only with marines and marauders, that will work, but by the time Zerg has banelings, Terrans ought to be doing things like harrassing with medivac drops, and have hellions and siege tanks, and have an expansion, and most especially ought to know the Zerg is going for banelings via scouting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Okay, this is getting silly.
I've been playing Zerg, and got three Protoss opponents in a row. They all beat me, and I don't understand how! I've played Protoss, and yet they build units so fast. I'm building as fast as is physically possible, yet I can't do anything to match them. Even units I know counter their units. Even when I have more units to start. They just steamroll me and I don't know how. Even watching the replays, I don't see what they're doing. Except the guy who just built defenses right next to my base because he "hated Zerg players" or something.
I just... I don't understand! As Terran I always seem to beat Protoss. But I want to play Zerg, not Terrans. I've even been practicing build order and speed to get a large military up as fast as possible. Yet they have huge armies practically at the start! How do they afford it? Especially with how expensive Protoss units are!
I'm just so frustrated. I don't understand!
Protoss have the most varied start-game with scouting, thanks to chrono boost. They can see what you are doing and elect to go either chrono/probes at nexus, or if they see you have ling production/early rush, they can chrono/gateway for early defensive unit production.
Protoss also have the most micro-exploitative capacity, since their units are usually high HP and they have the best specialist roles and specialty functions. If you look very carefully at the replays, odds are you will notice de-shielded units being disengaged and shifting to the back, use of immortals' hardened shield, ensuring all units are focusing fire on a single target, etc.
A unit at 1 health and a unit at 400 health both have the same damage output, so people who micro excellently against opponents who just 'push forward' don't suffer nearly the same output attrition.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Okay, this is getting silly.
I've been playing Zerg, and got three Protoss opponents in a row. They all beat me, and I don't understand how! I've played Protoss, and yet they build units so fast. I'm building as fast as is physically possible, yet I can't do anything to match them. Even units I know counter their units. Even when I have more units to start. They just steamroll me and I don't know how. Even watching the replays, I don't see what they're doing. Except the guy who just built defenses right next to my base because he "hated Zerg players" or something.
I just... I don't understand! As Terran I always seem to beat Protoss. But I want to play Zerg, not Terrans. I've even been practicing build order and speed to get a large military up as fast as possible. Yet they have huge armies practically at the start! How do they afford it? Especially with how expensive Protoss units are!
I'm just so frustrated. I don't understand!
If you keep spawning larva with your Queens and are 1 base ahead of the Protoss, it should be tough for them to out-macro you. Maybe you were slacking in one of these two departments.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Very good points all... but I am avoiding playing for a couple days. This game takes so much time, and I'd be better off writing than playing. Still, it was definitely worth the 60 bucks. Having to figuratively pry myself away from it is generally the sign of a good game!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I have a replay from today where over 175 supply of terran and zerg ground units tried to blast their way up their own ramp to challenge multiple colossi that we'd inched up there, and all got burned to a crisp in less than 30 seconds.
The game seized up and delivered me something like seven achievements.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
It was Terran? They should have used Vikings, then.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I love Vikings, Void rays toast them up like marshmallows.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Played a game yesterday, 2v2, my teammate just kept building up his base. He just sat there and watched as I was mobbed by massed by vikings and hellions. He then came in, after I hid a hatchery behind him, and destroyed them with massed carriers and void rays.
My early game is great but my late game really needs work.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Possibly the most epic SC2 match I've ever watched.
The link is part 4 which comes after a very long sequence of battles. The ending sounds like something that had to be scripted, but I just don't see how you could fake something like this.
I apologize for the commentator having an obnoxious voice.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
Just a disclaimer, maybe this is the same match that BlackBlade posted. I can't access YouTube from work, so I can't check to see if it's the same thing. For reference, mine is a TT1 vs MasterAsia.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Yeah, it is the same match. Epic match though.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: It was Terran? They should have used Vikings, then.
It's not a case of 'well, then they should have used this unit' — we scout and produce our next tier based on what we see them doing. If they had vikings, we would have had void rays or a healthier quantity of stalkers (depending on what they try to supplement the vikings with).
But since we watch them carefully and counterproduce units, you have a bunch of crispy-fried marines, marauders, roaches and hydras.
So many, in fact that the game derped out trying to give us all the achievements we earned in those seconds.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Good safety tip: if you've got 100+ supply, you should at least have some sort of mixture of forces besides 'ground plus more ground'. Heck, if you're Terran with that much resources, use the rarely used nuke option first, or even better EMP.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
100 supply with MMMballs and roach hydra balls are not uncommon earlier on before lategame diversification is possible. Sounds like they just went max production and got hard countered.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
That's what I mean: once you get past that early stage, it's time to diversify or at the very least be in a position to start diversifying quickly - by that I mean two factories or more ready to churn out siege tanks and thors, or one or two starports with a reactor on one to churn out vikings and medivacs.
But the big kicker in this story is: if he's got Colossi and is able to keep you largely past your ground unit range, don't just keep throwing meat into the grinder. Expand, or thrash his expansions, or stop him from expanding.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Yeah, I've already watched that game. That was pretty crazy. One zergling versus one zealot. What a battle.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
One zergling and one drone vs one zealot. Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Yes. And for spoilers' sake, it was the drone that was key to winning that battle. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: But the big kicker in this story is: if he's got Colossi and is able to keep you largely past your ground unit range, don't just keep throwing meat into the grinder. Expand, or thrash his expansions, or stop him from expanding.
yeah, uh, this was their base, not ours. They were trying to get back up their own ramp. I'm fully prepared to say they were welcome to start new bases or go after our expansions while we glassed their base and burned all their mans.
I got more faves today in the 1v1 category:
1. prism over some crap units into their base 2. Attack mans 3. Army comes over to wipe out crap units, protect mans 4. Bring in army and force field off their own ramp 5. kill expansion, expansion mans 6. skitter away 7. profit!
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Huh. Not even a section that's just "??????". You really had it all figured out. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I know my strengths and weaknesses very well.
fwiw here's how to beat me:
1. zerg air harrass 2. more zerg air 3. profit!
Stealthbuild a mutaball away from my observers and i lose so hard it's not even funny.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Oh, I see, I didn't get your description, Samprimary. What, did you bypass his attack, or was he building up or something?
Yeah, one downside of sensor towers is that they make that kind of baiting much easier, if the Terran doesn't take care to do a quick comscan.
As for mutas, they're deadly vs. me too. Particularly when they clump up and it becomes difficult to get a handle on how many there are. And they're so fast. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
AARRHHH!!!!!!
I am playing the mission where you have to stay ahead of the wave of fire, fighting the protoss (on Hard mode, not sure if there's a particular difference). I keep getting to the very end, forgetting to incrementally save somewhere along the way, and then attacking before I'm ready. This is the first campaign map that really forces you to pay attention to all kinds of places at once (well, others do to some degree, but this one feels harder). So replaying it is keeping in a constant, heightened state of stress.
I've restarted this mission a ridonkulous number of times. Mostly from the midpoint auto-save, but the first several times I was screwing up the early game and not building enough Starports.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Yeah, our opponents were doing exactly what they should have been doing with an MMM ball and a bunch of zerg ground. We teched but it had cost us a lot of map control and even our hard counter was too skimpy on output to deal with their ground force. We came up BEHIND their force, It saw us, I saw it, it was big, I went 'oh no,' I retreated, and made a split second decision to swoop up their own ramp. Colossi walked up, so there was no traffic jam. Just .. swoop! They saw us do this. They went 'oh no.' I micro'd each colossi back as I saw its shields go down, so none of them went down through the fight and kept up the output. The force was large, but ..
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Raymond: They have auto-save. It just saves whenever you pass particular points! Helped me out soooo many times.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: AARRHHH!!!!!!
I am playing the mission where you have to stay ahead of the wave of fire, fighting the protoss (on Hard mode, not sure if there's a particular difference). I keep getting to the very end, forgetting to incrementally save somewhere along the way, and then attacking before I'm ready. This is the first campaign map that really forces you to pay attention to all kinds of places at once (well, others do to some degree, but this one feels harder). So replaying it is keeping in a constant, heightened state of stress.
I've restarted this mission a ridonkulous number of times. Mostly from the midpoint auto-save, but the first several times I was screwing up the early game and not building enough Starports.
The solution to that level is to go ground with a heavy quantity of disposable marines/marauders/medics being backed up with siege tanks. Don't bother with air at all.
Ooze forward in a ball and 'tank push'
it's many many times easier, especially if you have stimpacks.
(as a bonus you can get the Siege Breakers just in time from the opening base's merc building)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
a really cool avatar in the form of a perfect gif transcription of the Zealot portrait.
or, as tom calls them, space elves (i still don't get that)
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Ugh. Sorry for anyone who saw this post.
Anyway, this game can be frustrating when you're suddenly on a losing streak. I even lost to a cannon rush... I know how to stop them, but I didn't act fast enough and I was completely obliterated.
If there's a definition of cheap in this game, a Protoss cannon rush is it. The game lasted 3 minutes, and I have to admit I was furious by the end. When you're getting furious at a game, it's time to give it a break. But then, it's not the game, it's the players. Losing constantly makes me much angrier than it should... but it's embarrassing. I was finally nearly back to even on wins/loses, now I'm way back again.
[ August 25, 2010, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: 0Megabyte ]
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
See above.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It's no cheaper than a zerg rush, IMO.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I don't think either one is particularly cheap, nor the terran proxy tricks. I crushed a terran who tried a proxy barracks on me last night. I had to send my queen over to take out the SCV, but I took out the barracks before he was able to produce anything from it.
Contained him, expanded twice, and then rolled him up when I had a large enough pile of roaches.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:The solution to that level is to go ground with a heavy quantity of disposable marines/marauders/medics being backed up with siege tanks. Don't bother with air at all.
Really? 'cuz even in the final area a large number of units aren't able to hit air at all.
Every time I've failed, I've understood exactly why I failed (or at least, I can see a way that if I had simply used the strategy I'm using WITHOUT screwing up, I'd have won). It's just that there's a lot of ways to screw up.
Granted, I've always been heavily biased in favor of air, I'm not sure why. Whenever I try the MMM ball that's supposed to be so good it just doesn't work out for me. I think I may simply not be getting enough units. Exactly how big does a MMM ball need to be to be effective?
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: AARRHHH!!!!!!
I am playing the mission where you have to stay ahead of the wave of fire, fighting the protoss (on Hard mode, not sure if there's a particular difference). I keep getting to the very end, forgetting to incrementally save somewhere along the way, and then attacking before I'm ready. This is the first campaign map that really forces you to pay attention to all kinds of places at once (well, others do to some degree, but this one feels harder). So replaying it is keeping in a constant, heightened state of stress.
I've restarted this mission a ridonkulous number of times. Mostly from the midpoint auto-save, but the first several times I was screwing up the early game and not building enough Starports.
A cheap way I found to win, I managed to move a factory and starport to the lower right corner of the map, made a small army, and once the wave of fire had killed almost every protoss unit and before it got to the building, I flew up and sniped the building.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
The photon cannon inside your base really isn't too bad on most maps. Just close your gap as fast as possible and generally it's faster than a probe getting inside.
If that fails you should still see the probe enter and not leave, which means you need marines as fast as possible and they need to search out the black sections of your base until they find the probe or pylon.
If *that* fails, then it's time to invest build more marines and try to surgically kill the pylon. If THAT fails, it's time to push hard for a siege tank with the siege ability as fast as possible.
If that fails, you probably need to learn to build faster.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Yeah, to avoid a rush, you really need to scout both your enemy's base and your own base in the very early game. The 9th SCV/probe/drone is a good one to consider sending to scout the enemy base. You should also have something stationed at your ramp so you know if an enemy SCV/probe/drone comes in.
As zerg this isn't as big a problem for me, since I can just rally each successive overlord to a different area of my base, and usually cover most of it with the first two in 1v1. That's generally enough to tell me if they're trying a proxy or cannon rush strategy. I've actually never fallen to one, now that I think of it. I've lost to zergling and zealot rushes, though.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Cannon rush CAN be a big deal for terran but is usually the result of intel failure. SC2 requires an elegant combination of production efficiency, map awareness, and combat direction. Fall short on any of these three pillars, and it sets up a chain of predictable results against good players.
There's a terribly wordy video by a nerd who cannot for the life of himself stop talking but is nevertheless an incredibly useful SC2 101 I should find and post here.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
HERE IT IS.
disclaimer: this guy won't shut up and he keeps talking and talking until I want to break his arms and I hate him and good lord shut up shut up
BUT
If you've been having problems with SCII multiplayer and can't figure out how to get better, I guarantee if you ACTUALLY SIT THROUGH THE VIDEO and resist the urge to hurl your monitor through the window, and you actually watch the whole thing?
You WILL be a lot better at starcraft.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Um, first of all, where is it?
Second, if one just turned the sound off, would you be missing anything?
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
The trick with Protoss is to make sure you keep an eye on your ramp to see if a Probe sneaks in. If you're not sure, you really ought to send an SCV on a few quick clicks to scout your area-just shift right click around the periphery and then back to minerals-and if you see a probe, sic an SCV on it. Waiting for a marine might be too late.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Um, first of all, where is it?
urg, sorry. my hate of ubb classic continues.
refinding
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Yes, you do actually have to listen to it. ffffffffffff
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Ahhh, Day9.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
I've been watching this guy in five barely manageable increments over the past five hours. It's brutal.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Ok... I won a battle by all rights I should have lost.
Incidentally, it was the first time I ever used bunkers. They saved so many of my men it wasn't even funny. Actually, wait, it was.
So, yeah. He was Protoss and attacked my Terran base very early on. I hadn't actually built any marines yet. He destroyed my barracks before I could do anything, and most of my scv's. But I moved my base to an area barricaded by rocks, and quickly used everything I had left to rebuild (I did have some money in my bank, luckily) and was able to get bunkers up and filled fast enough to stop him. He then kept attacking, but I was soon able to rebuild my power base, and he played very, very badly.
I'm certain he was toying with me. "Ha, he can't do anything! Wait... I'm not beating him..."
I finally built enough to get some medivacs full of marines, and attacked his base. He had a fleet of void rays, but I managed to destroy it. Clearly it was in its early stages. He gave up right there... I dunno if he was letting me win or not. Maybe not in the end.
Okay, after looking at the replay... he was definitely toying with me, at least at the beginning. He played one base, and figured, I think, that he had large enough forces to beat me when he attacked again. He was resting on his laurels while I worked desperately. He didn't even build a second base until I managed to myself!
Once again: I should not have won. Now, how do I upload replays?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
As a terran you should definitely utilize bunkers very often. They are great for securing your expansion, and when you are prepared to push out against your opponent, you can salvage them for 100% of the original cost. In a sense they are free, and you really should abuse them as much as possible because of that.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
True. Very true. That's good advice, and I'll think about it.
As it is, I tend to play one-base, at least as Terrans. I can usually get enough bio early-ish enough to crush the enemy. Especially since I usually get medivacs quickly so I have mobility.
But there are weaknesses to it. And I used to start with reapers alot, but I kept finding myself beaten back without doing enough damage. I think the map has a lot to do with when you choose that. I saw a guy do much better with reapers on one of those four player maps. I forget which one.
Another new strategy I learned for terrans was to move the base to a new location at the very beginning. That caught me off guard, too. It was a gold level player who did it. Great stuff.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I'm no expert, but I think an early base move is basically a gamble that you'll get lucky against an inexperienced player. You have to cripple your early economy and build wasting all that time doing nothing but moving your base.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
True.
Wow, just finished a 2v2 game... my guy got taken out early, and the enemy tried a cannon rush on me. It failed, and I wiped out one of the enemy players. And then, I battled the other player for nearly an hour. I destroyed his bases so many times, and if I had pushed at his new main base (my dead ally's main base!) from the right angle, I might have won. Heck, at one point he had no bases, period. He just built so MANY cannons.
In the end, what killed me was a mistake. I attacked from south of his second to last base to avoid the cannons, and blew up the command center easily. But... this time instead of escaping I went forward, and my forces ended up being pretty much wiped out. If I'd just pulled out, moved around and did the same to his main base, he prolly would have gg'd. As it was, I made a fatal mistake and he took advantage of it.
I fought 1v2 and it was incredible. Even though I lost.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: I'm no expert, but I think an early base move is basically a gamble that you'll get lucky against an inexperienced player. You have to cripple your early economy and build wasting all that time doing nothing but moving your base.
QFT.
It might work, but not often, and not against anyone who gets a head start on you because of it.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
It's not a strategy I'll be using a lot. It's definitely one of those "first time you see it it defeats you. Next time you're prepared, and know what to do" strategies. Like the cannon rush. Or a baneling bust.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I dunno, Soap. I play Terran in a platinum league, and I can't recall the last time I saw bunkers used anything but offensively, such as walling in an enemy's choke point. Yes, you can salvage a bunker meaning its cost is effectively zero, but that begs the question: is 100 minerals now a fair trade for 100 minerals later? Later, I will ought to have a more robust economy meaning that in fact it's not an even trade. Is 100m now on a bunker worth more than a hellion which can scout very effectively, all over the map?
When I'm playing as and against Terran, the only static defenses I use are sensor towers and missile turrets. If you can keep a mobile, mixed army in the area, even as much as a region away, and you keep an eye on your minimap, you'll have time to arrive. That army can respond to threats anywhere, not just in a range of infantry+1. Also when I'm playing against Terrans, if I see bunkers, I just attack elsewhere. Resources spent on a bunker here mean one less missile turret there. A bunker guarding the minerals of an expansion leaves the command center vulnerable, while a bunker guarding the command center leaves the gatherers vulnerable. Also, the truth is, just one bunker really isn't much against anything but small attacks. It will put a dent in a real harassment, and won't even be a hiccup to a serious trying-to-end-game push, and then you'll have lost the bunker and the units in it.
Static defenses, even somewhat free ones, pin you down. I can see some circumstances when they might be valuable, though. If I'm attempting to be sneaky and build a base or perhaps some buildings outside my natural area, a bunker or at most two might be a good idea, but I would still need to have a very mobile likely air force able to retaliate in time to have a chance of saving the place, and to really have a shot at protection I would need a sensor tower-which would rather announce it was there.
quote: But there are weaknesses to it. And I used to start with reapers alot, but I kept finding myself beaten back without doing enough damage. I think the map has a lot to do with when you choose that. I saw a guy do much better with reapers on one of those four player maps. I forget which one.
There are a few tricks to rushing with reapers. There is one absolute necessity, and that's getting them fast. You'll be sacrificing a mess of marines for base defense for a refinery and three or four reapers. The speed upgrade is also important, since it makes for easier micro and increases the chances you'll arrive before stalkers/queens/marauders. But the big one is an Orbital Command, with a comscan just before you arrive. I'm talking seconds at most, ideally hotkey for orbital command, press for comscan, press for the reaper group, and attack. When you go, make sure you go as close to the edges as possible if there is a decent defense, because the reaper rush only works if you smash or dent his economy. If you see nothing, though, go straight up.
quote:Another new strategy I learned for terrans was to move the base to a new location at the very beginning. That caught me off guard, too. It was a gold level player who did it. Great stuff.
Yeah, that's an all-in strategy that, if your opponent scouts effectively, will be a guaranteed disaster.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I will say this: Must they count battle.net's connection issues as losses/wins? I had this protracted battle with a gold rank Protoss player that, while I wasn't winning, I still had the potential to, even an hour into the game.
And it booted me. He gets the win, and I lose points. My internet was fine, nothign else was wrong, just battle.net. It's frustrating enough to end such a good game, but... for it to count as a loss, without any reservations? I may very well have lost in the end, but I wanted to lose fairly. And I was so itching to get him back for the beginning and his cannon rush.
I told him to fight like a man. He said to "cry to your mama." I was itching to attack his base with my (then) stronger force, and tell him something like "who's crying to their mama now?" But I was booted before I could make my move... sigh.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
0Megabyte: if they didn't, people would try to game the system by creating connection issues when games were going against them.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Although it sounds like now, people could rush and put themselves temporarily ahead, then cause connection issues and get a win.
Not saying that is what happened, but it sounds like it's possible.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Although it sounds like now, people could rush and put themselves temporarily ahead, then cause connection issues and get a win.
The thing is, you're supposed to rush, or prepare for a rush. It's a necessity of Starcraft 2: you must rush or prepare to be rushed. If you're not doing one or both of those things, you're just not doing it right.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Yeah, rushing is the name of the game. And I don't complain that he cannon-rushed me. (I've been learning to deal with it. And I know now how to stop it. I have to be fast, though!)
Still... connection issues make it quite unfair sometimes. I dunno how he could cause ME to have connection issues, though! He wasn't losing enough that I'd expect him to resort to it, anyway.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Although it sounds like now, people could rush and put themselves temporarily ahead, then cause connection issues and get a win.
Not saying that is what happened, but it sounds like it's possible.
Nope...whoever disconnects loses, I believe.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Ah, that makes more sense. Then they at least have to haxor your MineSweeper and force you to quit with sneakyness. Much less likely.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Started playing as Random, heh, and boy do I have no idea what I'm doing! I expect I'll find my way back in gold at this rate.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I'm 700 points into Diamond league atm, and the Terrans that I play against generally use their bunkers to secure their expansions. Many Terrans like to pull SCVs from gas and use MULEs to quickly get enough minerals to make a fast expansion. The bunkers really just help them defend it easier, because they are sacrificing their army for a huge economic gamble. A terran at this point would probably have 8 marines top, and very little tech to speak of.
It's really very popular on Metalopolis because the natural expansion is the only entrance to the base and so there's no real way around those bunkers early game. Late game it doesn't even matter because by then the expansion has paid for itself.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Got out of a 3v3 game where one of my allies started getting hit with a photon cannon creep. He kept trying to train zealots and hit the cannons, and nearly quit, but the other guy and myself talked him out of it. I got siege tanks there while my other ally walked some zealots into the cannon builder's base and cleaned up.
It went back and forth a lot. I got hit with reapers, chased them off with two thors. My tanks and thors got killed stalling a mass of hydralisks and void rays trying to get at my natural exp. Mutalisks, hit me from the back, but I chased them off with three thors, and some turrets. Got hit with a mixed bio ball/thor raid, while I put up a stiff resistance, it blew through and wiped out my main. Fortunately I had two other command centers, one was a recent expansion, one was my second exp that you have to fly to to pick up, so I flew a CC to that location and it was unmolested the entire match.
I had to rebuild my factories, and armory, but I had a ridiculous surplus of resources, I just didn't have the time to churn out units with how much I got hit. Meantime, my allies pummeled their exp bases every time they hit me, and eventually they just couldn't get enough resources and quit.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I just tried it on a 1v1 map v Protoss, and it worked out nicely doing just that-protect an expansion. I think you may be right, and I'll have to include them more in the future. When I pop Terran that is.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Woo hoo. I just learned, the hard way, that battle cruisers can be taken down by missile turrets.
At least, they could be until the guy realized yamato cannons beat their range!
I still won. But it was a race to see who could blow up all remaining buildings first. And I won that battle easily, as my base was filled with missile turrets, and he had to go through them very, very slowly.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
I won a game recently because missile turrets can target the colossus.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I still won. But it was a race to see who could blow up all remaining buildings first. And I won that battle easily, as my base was filled with missile turrets, and he had to go through them very, very slowly.
Speaking of close endings, check out this game someone showed me. It's a bit long, but it's one of the funniest endings I've seen. Worth taking a few moments to watch, imo.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
That was linked a couple pages ago. Loved the ending.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: I won a game recently because missile turrets can target the colossus.
They didn't research colossus range upgrades? Because that would have put them outside tower range.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP: That was linked a couple pages ago. Loved the ending.
And twice at that, apparently. Still, I suppose it's a good enough video to be worth a third post.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Well, thanks for linking it again. I hadn't watched until now. That was fantastic.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
you get two guesses as to why this has been linked to in this thread.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I just want to clarify: after I go to Char, do I get to do any more research or upgrades, or is that it?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
SPOILERS
Also, if I never go to Haven and complete the mission one way or another, does Hanson stick around in any meaningful way? (For that matter, if I fight the protoss, does she return at all later?)
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
SPOILERS
quote:I just want to clarify: after I go to Char, do I get to do any more research or upgrades, or is that it?
Once you go to Char you can still spend money and research you've already accumulated to get upgrades, but there are no further opportunities to earn income/research.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Yes, I saw. "21st century skills through Starcraft."
Lol.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
You know, I'm not sure which is worse. I mean, 21st Century Skills through Starcraft at least sounds like there's some potential to reach people who won't be reached otherwise, but Origami? As a 3000 level class? Seriously?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:You know, I'm not sure which is worse. I mean, 21st Century Skills through Starcraft at least sounds like there's some potential to reach people who won't be reached otherwise, but Origami? As a 3000 level class? Seriously?
Why not? Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Assuming you acknowledge that art can be taught at that level, period, I do not see why Origami couldn't.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Okay, followup questions: are there any upgrades you'd consider a must-have before going to Char?
In particular, in any circumstances are Spectres (or Ghosts, for that matter) useful in the final missions? And am I correct that upgrading Vikings is more useful than missle turrets? And are mercenaries other than the Battle Cruiser relevant?
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
I barely survived the final battle, so I don't have much good advice. Psi disrupters seemed pretty useful, given lots of Zerg coming through a few choke points.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Unfortunately I took the Mind Control one. I wasn't sure which was better overal but it seemed cooler at the time. By now I'd have to reply a lot of missions to switch that.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Make sure to destroy the nidus worms, if you're playing the version where you took out the air! The nidus units are stronger, and your best bet is to use a bunch of banshees to destroy every nidus network every time they appear.
Suddenly my army was adaquete, when it wasn't the previous time I tried it... Also? I was on hard, if that matters.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am running through the missions on hard now, just for fun. Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I took out air in the second to last mission.
In the final mission, I had 10-14 banshees just for nidus worms, which I made top priority.
Protecting the base was easy, once you take out the worms early. About 10 seige tanks on high ground, 20-30 mixed marines, marauder and helliins to go wherever the heaviest push is, and about 10-20 of the flame turrets at each choke.
The flame turrets were the real key. They do a number on zerglngs, don't use up supply, and are easy to repair between waves.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Finished it this afternoon. Had to switch down to Normal mode though. I'm not sure I can beat it on Hard without getting the Psi Disruptor, which requires me to play through half of the campaign again.
Spoilers:
-
I actually liked the twist with the Overmind. Seems like most people didn't.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
I've been working on a custom campaign for StarCraft 2.
The map editor is a bit-chilly-without-the-illy to work with, but I've basically figured out everything I need at this point.
I'll let you guys know when it's ready to play. Could be a few months.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I'm still stuck 2/3 of the way through the last mission on hard. I just can't keep my banshees alive, even with science vessel support.
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
A question for you guys: Is the original Starcraft worth playing?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Yes.
(Edit: Basically, the gameplay of the original is pretty similar to the gameplay of StarCraft II. So assuming you like the gameplay and storyline of StarCraft II, you should get something out of the original).
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
I haven't played the original. I know that makes the question odd. I guess I meant "in this day and age, is a 12 years old pc game worth playing?"
edit: I meant I haven't played Starcraft II.
[ September 04, 2010, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Sa'eed ]
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I thought my answer was pretty clear. Assuming you've played and enjoyed StarCraft II, you should be able to play and enjoy StarCraft 1.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
It's hard to say. Starcraft is an old game, and I'm not sure if you care about the story, or the game play, etc.
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
i edited my previous post
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
lol. Okay, well, then I'd say play the original if:
1) you like RTS games in general 2) You've played at least one other really old game that you enjoyed despite the aged graphics, so you know from experience that it's not a dealbreaker for you 3) you care about story (if not, you might as well just get StarCraft II instead since the multiplayer gameplay is mostly the same)
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
If you enjoyed Starcraft, you should enjoy Starcraft II, at least I haven't heard anybody who played the original say they dislike the sequel. But I do resent the fact the bumped the price up $10.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I resented the price bump-up until I realized how much value I get out of this game.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I resent them breaking it into 3 games. one for each race.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I don't resent it since after all, this game is easily as big as any other comparable RTS game in its SP campaign.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
If Blizzard hadn't broken it up into three games, they would have made something else instead, which I would have bought anyway.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I resent them breaking it into 3 games. one for each race.
That doesn't bother me too much as they felt they had too much story to shove into one game. But one does have to wonder how the multiplayer is going to change over the course of three games.
If the next two campaigns are just as awesome and story continues to be interesting that's OK to me.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW
quote:That doesn't bother me too much as they felt they had too much story to shove into one game.
I think the overall dilemma here is kinda interesting. I absolutely think the Terrans deserved, mechanically, to take up a whole game. Every mission explored a the potential of a unique unit and introduced an interesting gimmick of gameplay, many of which were unique to the Terrans. From a gameplay standpoint, shortening it to make room for Zerg and Protoss campaigns wouldn't have given us as much room to explore the armory, research or mercenaries.
From a story standpoint, I think things were stretched thin in places. This isn't because there wasn't enough story to support 29 missions. I just think they didn't do as good a job writing all that story. The Matt Horner missions are great. The sequence with Matt's "wife" was funny and interesting, even though it didn't end up meaning anything in the long run. I'd have liked to see more stuff like that in the side campaigns: missions that had interesting characters that we wanted to see, not for some future payoff, but because they were interesting on their own terms at the time.
I also think Char was not long enough. In no way should be able to just roll into Char and take it over in 3 missions, no matter how cool your artifact is. I think Char needed around 5 missions to really feel as dramatic and hopeless as it was supposed to be. Those two extra missions could also have been used to provide some meaning to your choices at the end of the Tosh and Ariel storylines. (Have a mission where it matters whether you are using Ghosts or Spectres, with Tosh as a hero unit to help you out if you chose him, and have a mission where the Zerg are infesting you unless you got Hanson's cure).
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I do agree that there should have been more story for 29 missions. Gameplay and mechanics, the game felt very full. Story not as much. Very well put.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The thing I noted is that the story seems like it was fleshed out by bookwriters, but the Dramatic Turns ended up having to be rushed through in cinematic form and came off underwhelming.
The Dramatic Turn at the end was so hackneyed in its execution, as a result, that I laughed.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
ADDITIONAL SPOILERS:
quote:The thing I noted is that the story seems like it was fleshed out by bookwriters, but the Dramatic Turns ended up having to be rushed through in cinematic form and came off underwhelming.
Definitely. Raynor's inspiring speech just before All In came when this new alliance of Dominion and Rebel troops had been working together for all of 2 hours. Kerrigan's return to human form was rather meaningless because we hadn't actually seen Kerrigan really interact with Raynor in an interesting way. They went out of their way to showcase Kerrigan's original "last stand", which was great for people who hadn't seen it. But it's only half of what the game needed to remind us of.
The more I think about it the more I'm pissed that there wasn't those two extra missions (with the specific gimmicks I described). A ghost-centric mission and an infestation-centric mission would have been great places for Raynor and Kerrigan to interact a bit, developing the tension. As well as make the final battle feel all the more hopeless and Raynor's speech more meaningful.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Kerrigan's return to human form was rather meaningless because we hadn't actually seen Kerrigan really interact with Raynor in an interesting way.
Kerrigan didn't interact in a meaningful way, period. She would just stress mockingly how much you were not going to win and how it was pointless to try to not lose, ha ha. Followed by: that was cute, but it merely annoyed me and now for sure it is pointless to try to not lose and/or reach the macguffin piece first, ha ha.
Other highlights:
Raynor: Tell me why I shouldn't kill you now!
Prince Anime: Because I'm just so .. so handsome. *tosses rose*
Raynor: AAH
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:She would just stress mockingly how much you were not going to win and how it was pointless to try to not lose, ha ha.
One thing that really bugged me about Kerrigan's dialogue was the misuse of the word "treachery." "You'll pay for this treachery, Jimmy!"
Uh, Sarah, he can't be betraying you if he's your sworn enemy. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
That is something that bugs me a LOT in Blizzard games - their casual misuse of words. Often number words. Zeratul did not serve Raszagal for countless millennia (he's only 700 years old). Kerrigan didn't kill billions of people (as far as I can tell she is only particularly responsible for the deaths of the UED, who were hardly innocent.) And yeah, I think "treachery" gets thrown around alittle more often than it should.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I was kinda annoyed that Kerrigan was thrown into our faces at the end so suddenly. But then what exactly the zerg were doing the entire time is completely lacking in explanation. I assume we are going to find out Kerrigan did something *really* bad before Raynor saved her.
----
Raymond: Those are all very valid points. Maybe you should let Blizzard know that.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Did you play Brood War? Kerrigan did some pretty bad things....
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Did you play Brood War? Kerrigan did some pretty bad things....
No I meant since the events of Brood War and SCII. In SCII it sounded like she wasn't really doing anything, just hanging out talking about everybody's inevitable defeat, looking for artifacts, but getting none of them, and then suddenly attacking.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Ah. Well she WAS laying waste to entire planets while she searched for said artifacts. So it's not like she wasn't doing anything bad at all.
Oooh, know what would have helped cement it though? Have a cinematic where she DOES secure an artifact (totally destroying all kinds of civillians in the process). Then, one of the missions on Char (the ghost-centric one, probably) is to steal it back.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
So today I learned that if you're in a team game, and your partner(s) leave right after the game starts, you have not lost.
In fact, your chances of winning have greatly increased. I think Blizzard will actually have to change how they deal with it, because at this point it would be ridiculously easy to exploit.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Are you talking about how his workers and buildings default to you, to continue gathering and producing as you see fit? I don't know, that doesn't seem like a very easy win to me if the other team is of any quality.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I made diamond league today!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I made diamond league today!
Which format?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Are you talking about how his workers and buildings default to you, to continue gathering and producing as you see fit? I don't know, that doesn't seem like a very easy win to me if the other team is of any quality.
In the game it happened to me, I had four barracks, with attachments, all queued with units four minutes into the game. There's a reason they don't let you trade resources early in the game.
The team I played against wasn't all that great, and really could have coordinated better. But on the flipside, I'm not exactly the best myself.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: So today I learned that if you're in a team game, and your partner(s) leave right after the game starts, you have not lost.
In fact, your chances of winning have greatly increased. I think Blizzard will actually have to change how they deal with it, because at this point it would be ridiculously easy to exploit.
It doesn't seem to be overwhelmingly game breaking. A friend and I tried to exploit it, but we didn't end up getting the benefit we had hoped. He set his workers to start harvesting, and immediately intentionally quit the game, leaving me, as zerg, his initial 50 resources plus his income from his six workers. I had saved my initial 50 resources as well so that I only needed to mine 100 resources to put down a spawning pool, which I did, and as soon as the pool completed queued a queen and six lings, which went after one of our opponents. Basically allowing me to "12-pool" faster than anyone could possibly 6-pool on their own. However our opponents didn't seem too shabby; the toss player I attacked was attempting, badly, to hold off the attack with his workers when his ally's zerglings came to his rescue. I think his ally had been 7-pooling, perhaps after he saw one of us drop and maybe smartly decided he should eliminate the dropped player as soon as possible.
The critical thing then was that we were both producing zerglings roughly at the same speed, because the limiting factor was the larvae. I had a queen and he probably took longer to get a queen up, but his ally was able to recover and eventually roll over my dropped ally's base, and the two of them together took me out.
I did make several mistakes which I realized both during that game and when watching the replay (for instance, at one point I lost track of 4 zerglings that just sat around for a minute not participating in any of the action ) but I'm convinced that even if I were to work on that, it's no more game-breaking than any other cheese/all-in strat in a 2on2.
(It does seem like it would have been more effective if I was protoss and could have just put up several gateways much more quickly, rather than being limited by my larvae.)
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I think, as you do, that Zerg are more limited in this strategy than Terran/Protoss, because of the larvae issue. Also, my game was a 3v3, so it was even faster.
If someone genuinely good were to actually practice this kind of play, I'm convinced it would be beastly.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I made diamond league today!
Which format?
1v1 and now 3v3.
2v2 is elusive but closing.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Honestly... how do you do it? I know I'm not nearly that good. I'm a pretty good silver -pretty high up on my ladder, at least- but it seems like there's a gap I haven't been able to overcome.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
As it is, I've been watching myself lose skill. Be defeated even by things I knew shouldn't beat me.
I've played more and more clumsily. It's weird. Ahh, well. I should take more time off of it. No need to focus on this game... the time commitment to really become good will probably be too much anyway.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Assuming you've already watched the day9 video I hate but which will make you better at starcraft, the ever-elusive goal is being able to manage the scores of cognitive demands that starcraft throws at you. You lose by having your focus broken more than you lose due to mechanics. Like, you have to be able to never have your production interrupted by constant fighting and never have your fighting interrupted by production and resource management. ANY time you look at your resources and see you have more than 600 minerals, you're failing. ANY time you look at your production and see gas dropped off, you're failing. Any time you see yourself supply capped, there better be a reason you like, or you're failing. The best way to start this procedure is to encode specific, pre-programmed routines by drilling yourself.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
New goal: reach 1000 points in 1v1 before the end of the month. I'm currently at 800ish.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Jebus, guys. I'll just hang out here in the dregs of the silver league.
I'm gold 2v2, but that's all. I'm way better at the team game than the solo game.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I've been completely distracted by SC2's newish DoTA map. I play almost exclusively as the stalker, being able to just appear at almost any point in the map when I want to every 30 seconds or so is ridiculously convenient. I also get the 40% faster attack speed upgrade, and combined with multishot I gain exp and crystals at a very good clip. Once I hit about level 10, I start teleporting behind other players right as they are about to consider running back to their pool, and finish them off. They start clustering together, and I go back to creeping until they start going off on their own again.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
twinky: I'm right there with you. If you'd like, we could always play a few games! Team up or "spar" or something.
BlackBlade: What DoTA style map on SC2? Where do I find this?!
Samp: I finally (came close to) finishing the Day9 video. The emphasis on fundamentals was really helpful. And now I finally see just HOW useful hotkeys can be. And how to use them more efficiently.
I'm still not great at them, and sometimes I forget to build when I'm away. But I forget less. I keep things going while away much more often than before. And I make a point of pressing the keys to create units. And not queuing up. I feel silly about how much keeping my credits open helps me speed up my game.
It really helped! Though the guy is kinda annoying...
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Ajar 587. I'm always looking for new 2v2 and 3v3 partners.
I've already promised another friend I'd team up with him tonight, but other than that I'm definitely down to do some practice 1v1s or take on the world in 2v2.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I know that I am nearing the middle/top of bronze, and am getting close to being promoted. About a third of my matches are against bottom to middle level silvers now. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Dang, it demoted me from silver to bronze.
For a while I was getting hammered in silver, ranked 80th in my division, give or take, and with a 10-20 record. It started matching me against bronze players, and I went on a tear, going 7-3 over my next 10 games, including a streak of 6 victories. I went from 82nd to 65th.
After the 10th game, a loss in TvT to a bronze league player, it demoted me to bronze.
Now the long climb begins, I guess.
After that I'd had enough of 1v1, but fortunately Juxtapose was on and he was up for 2v2. We lost our first one, a ZTvPT to platinum league players in part due to our own terrible scouting -- we let them take a gold exp and hold it almost the entire game. We somehow just didn't see it.
The second game, ZTvPP, was much better. I scouted an early proxy pylon in Juxtapose's base, so we went marauder/roach and pushed back. We harassed both toss but ultimately pushed into the cannon guy's base. He held onto enough stuff to rebuild in his ally's natural, but we had them contained. Jux scouted rays from the other toss so I switched to hydras, which fended off the rays. The ray guy massed cannons at their choke, but I snuck roaches and hydras past to keep harassing. Ultimately the would-be cannon rusher dropped. Jux hit the other base with vikings and marines just as I was sending over corruptors so I could morph them into brood lords, but I didn't get to since the second toss hit the GG. A good game! Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
So right now, I'm trapped in a stalemate against another Terran player.
Both our buildings are flying.
He has no units, but I think he can build a marine. I have a marauder, and 3 medivacs. I really need to get one of them killed because I have enough resources to build one viking (I have one supply depot, and am maxed on supply).
I tried to get my marauder and my last SCV to kill each other simultaneously, but that didn't quite work out.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
terran stalemates are lol. I got stuck in one where I had two stalkers and a sentry, no probes, no cash, and they had a command center lurking off the sides of the cliff with SCV's in it.
Can't leave computer.
Must patrol all land.
Going nuts.
This goes on forever.
I come back from lunch. He snuck in a landing and made a barracks and six marines. But it is a BIG MAP. Stalkers pick off a marine, flee. pick off a marine, flee. barracks takes off but is red, blows up.
Welp, back to where we were, and I added a few new patrol points so it won't happen again.
This goes on forever.
a bajillion hours later he drops.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
There really should be some kind of system where the players can vote for a stalemate, and the game ends without awarding or deducting points.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I had not played pvp in about 3 weeks, and I got killed a few days ago. I lost 14 of 16, 12 of them in a row. I dropped almost 20 places in my ladder because of it.
I have climbed back about 14 of them now, but still...
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
One thing stands out to me: "The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes."
Yes, it would do that. It would also make it incredibly difficult to survive a zergling rush.
EDITED for clarity.
[ October 08, 2010, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Juxtapose ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
LOL....funny how people bitch about void rays. I use them a lot, and they die pretty easily.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Zergling rush will definitely be more difficult to manage as Terran, but the bigger problem to me is the need for a factory in order to start the speed upgrade.
I can't see anybody attempting to reaper rush with that in place.
Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
Since when does Terran ever have difficulty fending off a zergling rush?
I play random, so I'm familiar with holding off zergling rushes as all three races, and I have to say that Terran is BY FAR the easiest to fend off ling rushes with. If I scout an early pool as Terran, or even notice zerglings running across the map if my scout is late, there's still more than enough time to complete a wall off by starting construction on an early extra depot, and sending a couple scvs to repair, still staying ahead in economy because the zerg player sacrificed drones to get such an early pool.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
And on maps with large ramps?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
If they're not going to restructure the reaper to be a later-tier, more durable unit, or significantly reduce the gas cost, they might as well just take them out of the game. They are only useful for rushes on the supply line. They then cease being used entirely.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Reapers were ridiculously good before the last patch's nerfs, and I think that this patch is designed to nerf them more in team games, where they are very powerful.
Now they are going to be recast as more of a counter attack unit that can quickly punish an opponent who has his army out of position by raiding expansions and sniping off workers.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
They're a unit with a very, very limited window of opportunity whose primary usage is just to snipe low-tier players with rushes, in a very narrow window, on the mineral line. After this, in nearly all instances, they stop being made or used. The lack of their use increases to a significant degree as you move up the tiers.
I don't think I can qualify those as being the qualities of ridiculously good units ..
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Actually, the reason they got nerfed was because they broke TvZ at diamond level and above so much that if the zerg player survived the first 5 minutes of the game, he was so far behind economically that his opponent had to seriously screw up in order to lose. 5 rax reaper rushes were almost unstoppable at even the highest level of play.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Hahahaha, oh snap. Really?
I wouldn't doubt that this could have happened completely without me noticing since I'm never involved in any TvZ games.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well, they nerfed the hell out of void rays, and increased the hell out of life on zerg buldings. Guess I'll stop playing.
I wonder if I can sell my account on ebay.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Seriously?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
yep. new patch, otherwise know as caving in to whiners.
I lost 50% of my matches with zerg before, because of their insane ability to rush. Now their spires have their health increased by a third?
And the void rays 2nd stage of power in lowered by 30% or so? They are the ONLY advantage Prot player had, and it wasn't much of one. PLUS, the flux vanes speed increase was lowered almost by half.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I enjoy playing protoss and I wanted Void Rays nerfed specifically so that I could actually use some other damn units.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I enjoy playing protoss and I wanted Void Rays nerfed specifically so that I could actually use some other damn units.
Here here. I was so sick of seeing them used against me when I was playing PvP that I pretty much swore them off as part of my arsenal. The few matches I did mass void rays I won each time, but felt dirty doing it.
(Now I play random most times.)
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
On top of that, the whole system sucks now. I just won, decisively. Then, when HE surrendered, I lost points because the computer said I left the game.
After he surrendered, and I clicked on continue.
My void rays have always been countered by vikings when I play vs terran. Easily.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
European Risk Revulsion is amazing.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The issue with Void Rays is not that they're uncounterable, or even overpowered. In the upper levels of play they aren't a big issue one way or the other. But in the lower leagues, Void Rays are a unit that just works well enough at most things that there's rarely a reason NOT to mass it. Anything else you focus on may turn out to be useless depending on what your opponent does. Even if your opponent masses Vikings, you can instantly switch to phoenixes.
Would good strategy with other units work better? Yes, but below a certain skill threshold, it ends up not really mattering.
On top of that, the Void Ray essentially invalidates the higher tier units of the Protoss. At the beginning of the second tier you get access to what looks, feels and acts like a capital ship. Periodically I tried to make some carriers or something... and basically anything I did other than Void Rays was not only not worth the effort in terms of strategic value, but wasn't worth the effort in terms of coolness factor.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Carriers are a good counter to vikings, in conjunction to void rays. Other than that they seem kinda overpriced and useless.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Carriers? I dunno, it's been awhile since I played SC2, Kwea, but I remember Carriers being a bad idea against Vikings. Void Rays too, but I'm less sure about that. Especially Vikings, though, because they're simply so expensive vs. Vikings, and Vikings are so much easier, cheaper, and faster to build.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I'm very happy with the changes other than the depot for rax requirement. I'm not sure that was really necessary, especially with requiring a factory for nitro packs, although I say that as someone who almost never built a rax before the depot when playing terran. I've always been a 10 depot 12 rax kind of terran.
Raymond explained the problem with void rays in the lower tiers very well. It's also worth noting that vs armoured targets, uncharged void rays now deal twice as much damage as they did before. I think this keeps void rays useful, especially in a mixed force, but also means that massing them isn't the win button that it used to be in the lower tiers. That said, I just lost to surprise voids as terran last night down here in the bronze league.
I love the zerg changes. I was already using buildings to defend my spine crawlers, but the buildings died so easily that it was really only effective against melee units. This will help quite a bit. I'm a big fan of the roach change as well, which has already made my roach micro much easier.
The other changes are cleanup, I think.
It wasn't catering to whiners. There was a clear problem in the lower tiers:
quote:Since the release of Wings of Liberty, the StarCraft II balance team has been diligently studying how the game is being played, playing it ourselves, and seeing how evenly the three races match up on the battlefield. While we regularly examine Battle.net player data and statistics from all regions, the information we're examining in this blog was pulled exclusively from the North American region for simplicity's sake.
Protoss are played 38.5% of the time. Terran are played 38.0% of the time. Zerg are played 23.5% of the time.
These are overall percentages, but they're mirrored in nearly the same exact separation through each of the leagues. This clearly shows that zerg are played less often than the other races. When we look at things like the Top 200, we like to have this data in-hand so we can ensure that it's proportionate to the amount of each race actually being played. We don't want to have a huge chunk of zerg players sitting somewhere further down, unable to rise through the ranks.
Let's take a look at win percentages on a race-versus-race basis. This is something else we look at to see how matchups are faring over many games. These numbers take individual player skill into account, which helps to avoid the 50% win/loss percentage effect that the matchmaking system can impart on straight win/loss ratios.
Win % in Diamond (accounting for player skill) 49.6% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran. 52.8% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. 49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
Win % in Platinum (accounting for player skill) 56.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran. 47.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. 44.5% win for Terran when fighting Zerg.
Win % in Gold (accounting for player skill) 61.0% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran. 61.1% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. 49.5% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
Win % in Silver (accounting for player skill) 63.6% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran. 50.7% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. 51.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
Win % in Bronze (accounting for player skill) 59.0% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran. 55.1% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. 45.4% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
As you can see there are some issues with protoss vs. terran in many of the leagues. From our own play experience, as well as feedback from the community, this matches pretty closely with what we're already aware of. We're working on solutions. What we're also aware of is that, while the numbers don't necessarily support the need for zerg changes across all leagues, the feedback from the community as well as our own play experience tells us that improvements are necessary to make zerg matchups feel and play better.
I think it was as simple as how easy and strong 4gate and its variants are as protoss openings, so even bronze league players like myself can use a good build easily, plus the strength and utility of void rays that made them unusually effective in the lower tiers.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
2 carriers along with massed void rays works well, because the gnats from the carriers keep the vikings from focusing just on the voids.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Notice at the higher levels the win percent for zerg were fine. Increase the life of their buildings while nerfing their opponents and guess what happens.
The only tier where there appears to be a bad discrepancy between Protoss and Zerg is the Gold level.
What we're also aware of is that, while the numbers don't necessarily support the need for zerg changes across all leagues, the feedback from the community as well as our own play experience tells us that improvements are necessary to make zerg matchups feel and play better.
It's pretty much caving, as they admit right there.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: 2 carriers along with massed void rays works well, because the gnats from the carriers keep the vikings from focusing just on the voids.
Against an oppponent who doesn't know how to focus fire? Yes.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: ?
It's a custom game, a giant map of Europe, RISK style. You captured cities and when you've captured all the cities in a country you get an income bonus. It's insane how well the game is done.
51 countries and 131 cities.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:2 carriers along with massed void rays works well, because the gnats from the carriers keep the vikings from focusing just on the voids.
Two carriers that require their own building to build, meanwhile the Terran can keep building Vikings and medivacs more cheaply and quickly, and...n/m.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Notice at the higher levels the win percent for zerg were fine. Increase the life of their buildings while nerfing their opponents and guess what happens.
I expect we'll see what happens when new stats are published a couple of months, but they state clearly that they don't think the building life increase for zerg will have a large effect. How does that specific change make your life more difficult? It sounds to me like you feel like you're already losing to zerg more than half the time so anything that makes zerg better is bad. But you losing to zerg more than half the time doesn't imply that zerg are unbalanced.
More importantly, protoss were winning > 55% vs at least one other race in four leagues. If that doesn't tell you that protoss needed to be adjusted, I'm not sure what would.
Edit: And I say that as someone who enjoys playing protoss and has never lost a game in which he massed void rays.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
lifetime protoss player here. void rays needed to be nerfed again.
Also, if you don't believe in carriers being awesome:
The matching system is now pairing me up pretty consistently against silver level players. I lose about 80% of them, but if I keep improving my mechanics I have hope that I can *finally* get promoted to silver.
By the way, there's a neat custom AI on battlenet. You can play against it on ladder maps by searching for "Fyn" (through custom games.) It doesn't have a maphack and it tries to scout (especially as Zerg using overlords) and when it sees what you have it follows the Blizzard AI's counter script. And on medium setting there's no resource cheat but it's still very tough as there's no micro cap. Anyway, it's definitely better and smarter overall than the blizzard AI. It's good practice.
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