So, here's the deal: I don't play PC games. Rather, I don't in general. Buying a console and knowing every game made for that console will run well seems so much easier, and there were very few PC games I wanted that weren't also on a console.
However, I would like to be able to play Star Wars: The Old Republic when it comes out sometime in the somewhat nearish future. So, time to prepare. With a little research I've decided that I might be able to play the same. The system requirements aren't out yet, so its difficult to tell. Bioware had apparently said at some point that were aiming for compatibility with mid-grade systems, so I've made some assumptions based off of that. Unfortunately, I'm still not sure my video card will be up to snuff.
So, I'm somewhat in the market for an upgrade. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue how to interpret what cards can do what or whether they'd be compatible or if everything is compatible or what. Completely clueless. So, I would like assistance.
I have just the thing that came in the computer. I bought the PC pretty recently, so I understand its not horrible or anything... Just not designed for gaming. Its an "Integrated Intel GMA HD" card.
Some questions I have regarding upgrading (assume I know nothing because... well... I don't regarding these things):
1) Is it possible to upgrade the card in any computer? I mean, would a store-bought pre-made computer have everything.. I don't know, welded in and immovable? No upgrades for you type deal?
2) If it is possible, what would be the best card for my situation? I doubt TOR will be super intense, but I also wouldn't mind being able to play a few other possibly higher-end games as well. Price is also a factor. I can't spend a super large bundle.
3) How do I install it? Do I just open 'er up and plug it in or is it more in depth?
Any help would be appreciated. Ignore the n00b smell. I hope to be cleansed of it soon.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In order to upgrade your video card, you'll need an open PCI Express x16 slot on your motherboard. Do you have one?
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
How can I tell?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you know the model of your motherboard, you can Google it. Otherwise, you're probably better off opening up the case and looking.
The motherboard is the big board to which all the cables and components of your system are connected. (It also plays host to several chips, including your CPU (which will be covered by a heatsink and fan) and your current integrated graphics chipset.)
On this board, you should see a few rectangular slots into which it appears a thin card could be inserted. Some of these might have visible pins in them; you can ignore those for the moment. Others -- from two to six -- might be placed near the CPU, and might be filled or half-filled with very narrow cards studded with small chips; these are your RAM slots, and you'll want to take note of them.
But there should also be a row of long slots that run along the outside edge of the board, parallel to the ports and/or cutouts through which a newly-inserted add-on card might present a port to the outside world. These are your PCI-Express slots, assuming your computer was purchased a year or so ago.
What you want to see is one or more long slot of that type, unoccupied by any card that isn't a video card already.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
It looks like I have one.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Excellent! The next thing you need to worry about is your power supply. Some modern cards don't take a lot of power; others, especially the fastest, do -- and if your computer wasn't originally designed with some wiggle-room in mind, you may find that adding another major component exceeds the capacity of the power supply.
Can you find anything printed on the power supply of your machine (the squarish box into which the power cable is plugged, and which on the inside of the computer is connected to the motherboard via a thick cable or two) that indicates its capacity, in watts (sometimes printed as 350W or 750W)?
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I didn't see anything really obvious... It was Chinese. There were a couple of numbers. The highest was 300W.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hm. That does not bode well. What brand of computer did you wind up getting? If you have a standard case and a motherboard that accepts standard ATX connectors, you can probably simply upgrade your power supply and your video card at the same time. I would not advise upgrading your video card without upgrading your power supply, however.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:I didn't see anything really obvious... It was Chinese.
lol, uh oh
maybe if you took a picture of your computer's guts at high enough resolution that we could see stuff in detail, it would help with diagnosing your situation.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
Its a Gateway DX4840-03e.
If I have to replace the power supply, which it appears I will, I think it might not be worth it for what will effectively be an upgrade for just one game.
However, I do have some slim hope that possibly my computer might be able to run Star Wars: The Old Republic when it comes out. Possibly at the lowest settings, but still run it. Bioware stated a while back they were aiming for the game to be playable on then current mid-range systems. I checked out the Intel website, they made my internal video card, and they say my card can supposedly run the first Modern Warfare.
I don't have MW, but I did download a demo of Mass Effect 2 to see exactly how my card would hold up. I didn't really imagine it to run at all, but I could totally play it. It was ugly (primarily the faces looked like... zombie faces or something), but I could play it gosh darn it. I figure an MMO designed for mid range system should be less intense than ME2, yeah? The videos I've seen seem to indicate that as well. So maybe an upgrade won't necessarily be required to play TOR anyway.
Feel free to dash my hopes there if I'm deluding myself.
[ September 06, 2010, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Ginol_Enam ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You're deluding yourself. But the worst-case scenario is that you'll be out $50 if you're wrong.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
Awesome. Might as well build one then
Any idea whether this site is legit? It seems like a good springboard to start from. Is TigerDirect.com actually a good place for parts, or is this site just a plug for that one?
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I used that site to start off with when I was building my own. I don't quite have the time right now to link to my thread on building a PC for gaming, but there was a lot of good advice. You can probably just look in my recent posts and be able to find it. It seems like I had slightly higher aims than you, but it still might be useful.
Two other sites to be aware of real quick are newegg.com and tomshardware.com. Again, I'll link to them when I have some time later, but Tomshardware is a fantastic place to get some advice about budget options, even complete builds for $550, $750, $950, etc.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
TigerDirect and NewEgg (particularly NewEgg) are good places for parts. TomsHardware is the best place for recommendations.
I would strongly advise that you upgrade your power supply.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
How much are you looking to spend, Ginol?
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
TOR isnt going to be hard to run. Most MMOs never are.
I'm no tech expert, but you probably dont have anything to worry about for now. Im saying virtually nothing.
Something under Cryengine 3? Different story. After cryengine 3, every graphics upgrade is going to feel really marginal. I can honestly say I dont thing I will ever look at that demo and say it looks ugly.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I would want to spend under $1000. I don't want or need the 1337est (do people still say that?) computer ever built. I just would like something that 1) could play TOR and 2) allow me to play the occasional PC game that isn't on consoles or is significantly better on PC. It still pains me a little to keep reading how much better the PC version of Dragon Age is to the console versions.
I would, however, like the option to upgrade it later on. Who knows, maybe with a PC that can actually play games I might get into them more?
Primarily, though, I'm really kind of looking forward to the experience. It was like there was a wall between me and the idea of building a PC. As I started to think about upgrading my current PC it was like I started to approach the wall and once I realized just upgrading was going to a pain in the rear I beat the wall down and am kind of excited to get started.
It'll probably be a month or two, though. I need to save a bit of money first.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Your PC is fine. Upgrade the power supply with at least a 350 W supply and throw in a 9800GT.
Shouldn't cost more than $150.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ginol_Enam: I would want to spend under $1000. I don't want or need the 1337est
Not really.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I'd go with at least 500W to be honest. A 9800GT is fine but you could probably get an 8800GT for cheaper. Its pretty much the same card, Nvidia didn't really change their video cards much until the higher 200 series boards and the 400 series.
MMO's are starting to get a bit more demanding. I have been playing Final Fantasy XIV and I am experiencing some lag with my machine. I have 2 of the GTX 460 cards in my machine right now and 8GB of RAM. Some of the problem may be due to the extra programs Squeenix has running in the background. When it hits retail I hope it is a bit smoother.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I'd go with at least 500W to be honest. A 9800GT is fine but you could probably get an 8800GT for cheaper. Its pretty much the same card, Nvidia didn't really change their video cards much until the higher 200 series boards and the 400 series.
MMO's are starting to get a bit more demanding. I have been playing Final Fantasy XIV and I am experiencing some lag with my machine. I have 2 of the GTX 460 cards in my machine right now and 8GB of RAM. Some of the problem may be due to the extra programs Squeenix has running in the background. When it hits retail I hope it is a bit smoother.
What kind of processor are you using? Those network demands will weigh more heavily on the processor and network than they will on the graphics card.
I, on the other hand, have a quad core AMD (older processor), 4 gigs of ram, and a 9800GT (with 256 megs onboard). I can run Crysis in 1080P with nearly all of the settings maxed. I've played a number of other games, online and off, and had no problems. The OP's i3 processor will outperform my rig -- on both networking and multitasking.
Based on the manufacturer's specs for the card, coupled with the PC's requirements, 350 W is a minimum. 500 W isn't required. 400 or 450 W might be a good paranoid recommendation (especially if you're going for a cheaper supply).
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:I would want to spend under $1000. I don't want or need the 1337est (do people still say that?) computer ever built. I just would like something that 1) could play TOR and 2) allow me to play the occasional PC game that isn't on consoles or is significantly better on PC. It still pains me a little to keep reading how much better the PC version of Dragon Age is to the console versions.
I would, however, like the option to upgrade it later on. Who knows, maybe with a PC that can actually play games I might get into them more?
Primarily, though, I'm really kind of looking forward to the experience. It was like there was a wall between me and the idea of building a PC. As I started to think about upgrading my current PC it was like I started to approach the wall and once I realized just upgrading was going to a pain in the rear I beat the wall down and am kind of excited to get started.
It'll probably be a month or two, though. I need to save a bit of money first.
Honestly, judging by the specs of your current machine, I'd say you shouldn't bother building a whole new rig right now. Upgrading your current machine would be ridiculously easy. You've got a decently fast processor and 8 gigs of RAM. Throw in a decent graphics card and upgrade your power supply to handle it, and you'll have a pretty solid gaming machine for under $200.
Building your own machine can be a lot of fun, but I don't really see the need right now. If I were you I'd just upgrade it, enjoy it for a few years, and then build a new one when it starts to get outdated.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
"While we don’t have the minimum system requirements available just yet, the goal is to make the game playable on most PCs." -- Bioware
Ehh, there's a good chance that you won't need a new graphics card.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: What kind of processor are you using? Those network demands will weigh more heavily on the processor and network than they will on the graphics card.
I, on the other hand, have a quad core AMD (older processor), 4 gigs of ram, and a 9800GT (with 256 megs onboard). I can run Crysis in 1080P with nearly all of the settings maxed. I've played a number of other games, online and off, and had no problems. The OP's i3 processor will outperform my rig -- on both networking and multitasking.
Based on the manufacturer's specs for the card, coupled with the PC's requirements, 350 W is a minimum. 500 W isn't required. 400 or 450 W might be a good paranoid recommendation (especially if you're going for a cheaper supply).
My current setup is as follows:
Intel Q6600 Quad Core Processor 8GB DDR2 RAM 2x Geforce GTX 460 cards (1GB mem each) 800 Watt Power Supply Windows 7
The thing is, I can run anything else at full settings without a problem. Its just FFXIV. The game is absolutely beautiful. I read that a TON of people with high end gaming rigs are having trouble with it, and Square said a lot of it is their fault and it is due to something in the beta. When the game is released it should be ok.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Geraine,
I'll bet good money that it's the software, not the hardware. Square needs to clean up their code and their memory addressing / utilization.
Your system is overkill for any software on the market, short of high-end graphic rendering / animation.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Honestly, judging by the specs of your current machine, I'd say you shouldn't bother building a whole new rig right now. Upgrading your current machine would be ridiculously easy. You've got a decently fast processor and 8 gigs of RAM. Throw in a decent graphics card and upgrade your power supply to handle it, and you'll have a pretty solid gaming machine for under $200.
Building your own machine can be a lot of fun, but I don't really see the need right now. If I were you I'd just upgrade it, enjoy it for a few years, and then build a new one when it starts to get outdated.
Oh, I'm sure that building a whole new computer doesn't make a whole lot of logical here and now sense. I still probably will for a couple of reasons.
1) Primarily I just want to. Reading up on it and finding out how not really super complicated it is has gotten me excited to just try it. I want the experience, I guess.
2) I don't really want to dig into my current computer just in case something goes wrong. I understand its not really difficult, but I've never changed a power supply or a video card before. If I make a mistake or something I'd rather not potentially risk my already built and running great computer.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
The potential risk (and cost) is a lot higher in building a new computer than the EXCEEDINGLY simple act of installing a power supply and video card. The video card is the equivalent of changing your own oil.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Today's Woot, by the way, is not bad.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: Geraine,
I'll bet good money that it's the software, not the hardware. Square needs to clean up their code and their memory addressing / utilization.
Your system is overkill for any software on the market, short of high-end graphic rendering / animation.
I kind of wish I knew how to use high-end graphic and animation software. I have a copy of Maya sitting on my desk and have never even installed it.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Ginol, why not buy a better graphics card and power supply, try putting them in, then if you're still hankering to build your own from scratch, take them out and put them in whatever you build.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I kind of wish I knew how to use high-end graphic and animation software. I have a copy of Maya sitting on my desk and have never even installed it.
Best way to learn is by doing. There's a lot of online forums and tutorials available on rendering, and the worst you can do in your early efforts is embarrass yourself.
[ September 08, 2010, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Sterling ]
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Are you using win7x64 or win7x32? If you're using x32 half your 8gb are wasted.
If you are in the bay area, I recommend dropping by Central Computer. They've always been super swell to me. (Even let me use their benches in the back one time when I was having problems with some of their parts.)
I also tend to buy from Amazon in addition to Newegg.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Are you using win7x64 or win7x32? If you're using x32 half your 8gb are wasted.
According to Gateway's website, it's 64-bit. I've occasionally seen systems with 4GB using 32-bit versions of Windows, which wastes most of a gig, but it seems like most manufacturers have shifted to 64-bit.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: Ginol, why not buy a better graphics card and power supply, try putting them in, then if you're still hankering to build your own from scratch, take them out and put them in whatever you build.
I appreciate the responses. Like I said above, however, I realize it doesn't make much sense from a logical perspective; I just want to build a computer. I'm excited for it now and I'd rather not dig through the one I already have.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to have two computers. One for gaming and one for not gaming. I'm sure my wife would appreciate having another computer accessible, especially if I'll be playing an MMO in a few months.
Besides, it will be several months before I do this. I want to research a bit more, for one, and I need to save up a little money anyway. Who knows. Maybe by the time I get to the point where I would start I'll have changed my mind and just upgrade my current computer or just not bother with it all.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
It is really fun. I was in pretty much the same position. I didn't need one per se, but I really wanted one. My biggest word of advice is be careful about going over budget. It is ridiculously easy to do.
Here is my thread on building a computer. Lots of good advice in here: Building a Computer
And Toms Hardware is where you can really find some good advice on quality and compatibility and stuff. They have recent reviews and comparisons for pretty much every component, and they understand that price is a lot of times a big issue. In fact, I think every month they have a build contest that sets a price range and sticks to it. I linked a recent really cheap one, but there are more.
TigerDirect is usually cheaper than Newegg. At least, they change their prices more quickly (so you can take advantage more readily of price drops).
I've priced a few PC's trying to minimize shipping costs -- two out of three times, TigerDirect beats Newegg in total cost.
With some of the older components, Geeks.com does fairly well -- but their selection is terrible.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
TigerDirect is sometimes cheaper, but their customer service is much, much worse. The savings are rarely worth the additional potential hassle.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: TigerDirect is sometimes cheaper, but their customer service is much, much worse. The savings are rarely worth the additional potential hassle.
I buy from them all the time, and I've never had a problem.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)