Due to vandalism and a case of two students having sex last year (bathroom floor, yuck!), my school's principal has decided to start locking all of the student restrooms. We must call the office when a student needs to use the restroom, and they are escorted by administration or security.
In theory, I have no problem with it. As long as the students are allowed to use it.
In practice, it has gone bad. We have 1,100 students. We only have 3 administrators and 2 security. None of which are female. There has been more then a few cases where no one has even come to my room to take them.
The nurse told me she has had 3 students wet themselves so far.
We have come up with two solutions, only to be ignored by the principal. Teachers have volunteered to give up 10 minutes of planning and take turns with keys to the restrooms. It has also been recommended to open them during scheduled times during the day under close supervision.
The union told me it frankly doesn't concern them.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
Welcome to Education, enjoy your stay...
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
What kind of school is this?
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: What kind of school is this?
Public middle school.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
And what kind of students haven't been able to figure out a way to obtain a key?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
"When it's against the law to use the bathroom, only outlaws will use the bathroom."
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Wouldn't it be simpler to provide a private space where people could have sex? For that matter, you'd think the embarrassment of getting caught (and on a bathroom floor at that; yuck) would be a good encouragement to the others to exercise more creativity in finding privacy.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
Wouldn't it be simpler to provide a private space where people could have sex? For that matter, you'd think the embarrassment of getting caught (and on a bathroom floor at that; yuck) would be a good encouragement to the others to exercise more creativity in finding privacy.
My idea of a bucket of condoms next to the bathroom pass went ignored.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: "When it's against the law to use the bathroom, only outlaws will use the bathroom."
I may steal that for the next staff meeting.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
What kind of area surrounds the school? (Just curiosity, this and the last)
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: What kind of area surrounds the school? (Just curiosity, this and the last)
Mixed income levels. We are just outside the Washington, DC beltway. About 45% of our students qualify for free or reduced lunch. We have a few children living in mansions, and a few living on the streets.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I guess I meant more geographically, are there dense woods? Marshes? Ravines?
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
Many states have laws against this kind of behavior. Every time it's been pressed in a court of law, the school is either overturned or abuse charges are filed:
Children need unrestricted access to the bathroom. Period.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'd be awfully tempted to go out and urinate on that principle's car.
Posted by DSH (Member # 741) on :
Perhaps you could send them to a janitors closet or that little nook underneath the stairs (if you have stairs) or some other out of the way place.
Eventually the smell will tip someone off...
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I guess I meant more geographically, are there dense woods? Marshes? Ravines?
No such luck.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I wasn't really suggesting a plan of action, more wondering what the consequences would be like. Is this at least a suburban area? I suspect the principal might get an earful if students start taking a dump and/or piss on random people's lawns near the school as a substitute for example.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It's an interesting dilemma. yes, it makes sense that there should exist a right to go to the bathroom when needed, but in all honesty there are planty of real world situations where one is not allowed to use the restroom anytime you want to.
Take teachers for example - we cannot legally leave our classrooms unattended, even during class changes we have assignments. I can go to the restroom at 7:30 before school begins, during my planning period, and after school at 3:00. That's it - every other time I have some assigned duty that keeps me in my classroom or out in the hall. Students have much more access to bathrooms than the teachers do!
I can't let every student out of the room to use the restroom so I have a strict policy of only one person out of the room at a time, so you may have to wait until someone gets back. I also do not allow you out of the room during testing.
But, I'm pretty lenient on letting them go to the bathroom if the above conditions are met because I teach a block class that is more than 90 minutes long. It makes sense some students are going to need to use the restroom during a class that long.
I've never heard of bathrooms being locked - that seems crazy. I cannot believe you have so few administrators for a school that large, too. They need to work something else out - it sounds like your current situation is unworkable.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
My last class of the day is the worst off. They have a 30 minutes lunch at 10:22. Odds are I am going to have a couple that need to go 4 hours later. They don't have time after school because they really limit their dismissal time to get on the bus.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Could there be a key for each room to be handed out by the teacher as needed? Students still could arrange to be in the bathroom together if they were in different classrooms but it would be much tougher to do without being noticed.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick there, kmb. Is student sex in semi-public bathrooms really such a massive problem that access to those bathrooms must be controlled? It seems to me that the chance of getting caught, not to mention the yuck factor, would by themselves make this a once-a-year incident at most, which is surely tolerable; while trying to patch the key-control thing is just going to lead you into the realms of absurdity. A fundamentally broken design cannot be patched to make it sensible, and if you try, you end up with a vast shambling mound of duct tape, leaking at every seam. Or, to put it another way, when you're in a hole you should stop digging.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
There has to be some law against this. The principle saying the bathrooms will be unlocked is one thing, but the first time a child wets him or herself it should be overturned. If I were a parent of one of the children I'd be furious.
Punish the kids that were having sex in the bathroom, not everyone else.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Take teachers for example - we cannot legally leave our classrooms unattended, even during class changes we have assignments. I can go to the restroom at 7:30 before school begins, during my planning period, and after school at 3:00. That's it - every other time I have some assigned duty that keeps me in my classroom or out in the hall.
Wow, that seems like rather inhumane working conditions. The human body doesn't always adhere to schedules. What are you supposed to do when you have an unexpected urgent need to go and its hours until your next break?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
In those cases Rabbit you ask the teacher across the hall to watch your class for you, but since she can't leave her class unattended either, that means she has to stop what she is doing and stand in the hallway between the two classes and try to keep an eye on both until you get back. As you can imagine, it's very disruptive and so it's rarely done.
Teachers joke about developing a "teacher's bladder" because you have to be very good at holding it.
It was a big adjustment from my previous work experience, where I could go to the bathroom whenever I wanted, and if I wanted coffee or a soda I could get it, to now where my movements are seriously limited.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
This rule wouldn't phase me, I'd pee on the side of the building. I wouldn't have a solution for #2 though.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: I think you've got the wrong end of the stick there, kmb. Is student sex in semi-public bathrooms really such a massive problem that access to those bathrooms must be controlled? It seems to me that the chance of getting caught, not to mention the yuck factor, would by themselves make this a once-a-year incident at most, which is surely tolerable; while trying to patch the key-control thing is just going to lead you into the realms of absurdity. A fundamentally broken design cannot be patched to make it sensible, and if you try, you end up with a vast shambling mound of duct tape, leaking at every seam. Or, to put it another way, when you're in a hole you should stop digging.
I doubt that the attitude of "tolerating" 11, 12, and 13 year olds having sex in school would be an easy sell. Patching up broken designs is a big part of civilization. Rarely do we have the luxury of scrapping it and starting from scratch.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
It is worth noting just how much of an issue this is though. If this is to be believed http://www.sadd.org/stats.htm#sexualactivity , students having underage sex before 13 covers 6.2% of that group and if the rate of student sex in washrooms is once per year in a school of 1100 over three years, that means that at maximum only about 4.3% of sex incidents will occur in wash-rooms as a maximum, less if there are repeat offenders in the washrooms or if the kids in the group have sex multiple times.
So it's not exactly a big problem and one could say that it would be worth looking into what should be locked/done for the same effort instead.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I did not realise quite how young these kids were. But even so, one needn't `tolerate' them having sex in the bathrooms because they are open. Just have a teacher of the correct gender pop a head in once in a while. Surely it cannot be more difficult to combat sex in bathrooms than to combat smoking in bathrooms, for which schools have had policies since the dawn of time. A quick sniff of inspection, "Mary, is that you smoking in there? Come out right now or there will be trouble!", and hang the offender at dawn next day before the assembled school. "Her classmates are in hollow square / you can hear the Dead March play / they're hanging Susie Smoker / they're hanging her today..."
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Stephan did not say that the bathrooms were locked because of one incident of students having sex in the bathroom, he said they were locked because of "Vandalism and a case of two students having sex." I strongly suspect that "vandalism" was the real motivating factor with sex thing perhaps the straw that broke the camels back.
Still, locking the bathrooms does not appear to be a workable solution. Its probably not legal as there are laws governing bathrooms availability in public buildings (I assume this is a public school). They need to find another alternative.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
A good point. But still, locking a bathroom so it can't be used at all strikes me as a rather extreme solution to vandalism. Again, isn't this just the ordinary problem of policing a thousand rambunctious kids? To shut down important parts of the school because the kids can't be kept under control is a perfect example of cutting the nose to spite the face. Have people patrolling the hallways, poking their heads into bathrooms, whatever.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I wasn't really suggesting a plan of action, more wondering what the consequences would be like. Is this at least a suburban area? I suspect the principal might get an earful if students start taking a dump and/or piss on random people's lawns near the school as a substitute for example.
Though gross, probably the best solution. If enough students start having "accidents" as a protest, the stupid admin will have to change their minds.
I also feel really bad for any of the young girls who have periods and are new at it...
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
This policy seems stupid.
The humiliation of wetting yourself (or worse) at school is a harm, IMO, comparable to getting beaten with a paddle in front of the class.
Meaningful concentration on learning is nearly impossible when you're focusing every available neuron on keeping a sphincter clamped.
Kids will dehydrate themselves so they don't have to call attention to their biological needs or risk embarrassing accidents.
quote:It has also been recommended to open them during scheduled times during the day under close supervision.
I can't believe this rule isn't already in place. That kind of thing seems like the absolute minimum to make this policy not insane.
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I wasn't really suggesting a plan of action, more wondering what the consequences would be like. Is this at least a suburban area? I suspect the principal might get an earful if students start taking a dump and/or piss on random people's lawns near the school as a substitute for example.
Though gross, probably the best solution. If enough students start having "accidents" as a protest, the stupid admin will have to change their minds.
I also feel really bad for any of the young girls who have periods and are new at it...
The kids can't/shouldn't be roped into any particularly messy sort of protest, but if I was a parent or a teacher I'd be pretty tempted to stage some kind of piss-in.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Bring this policy to the courts, and it will lose.
Threaten to bring this policy to the courts, and it'll likely be removed earlier than that.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Exactly how bad was the vandalism? It's a bit ridiculous to expect kids not to draw on bathroom stalls or mirrors. Pretty much every public restroom I've ever set foot in has been vandalized one way or another. And as for the sex, there were kids in my high school doing it in the library. There isn't much you can do to stop that sort of behavior other than checking up on the bathrooms every once in awhile and punishing kids who break the rules.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Or his job.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
I teach in a high school of over 2000 students and 4 administrators. So...
There's not really any acceptable solution to that problem that I can think of. You can't deny people access to washroom facilities. You simply can't.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I'm with Sam on this. Are the parents aware of this? Have they been notified? If I were a parent, I'd be on the phone with the school board the moment I heard the school was doing this. My next call would be to an attorney.
They would take that case in a heartbeat.
The principal should hire a hall monitor. It is cheaper than a lawsuit.
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
I remember a (somewhat) similar situation at my high school. I forget what year it was, perhaps my sophomore or junior year. At any rate, the custodians were finding puddles of piss in the restrooms. The men's restrooms, to be specific. I guess there was no doubt in the administration's mind that men were responsible, judging by their reaction. The volume of pee and location of the puddles left no doubt that it was deliberate, either.
The principal called the men (the ladies weren't invited), by class, into the gym, and explained the situation. If it happened again, restroom facilities would be supervised between classes. The restrooms would be locked and only available to supervised use.
They proposed other, less attractive alternatives to this solution, too. Fortunately, it worked. As far as I know, the problem stopped there. There was no doubt in my mind the principal would have carried through with the promise. I watched that man take toys from my sister when she misbehaved. The old man definitely had some interesting solutions to problems up his sleeves. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
reminds me of that episode of scrubs.
"These pictures of me are making my uncomfortable." "I'm so sorry, I didn't know you felt that way here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to leave them up." "I could live with that... Or I could sue you" -- The hospital lawyer halts midstep and turns around. *Laughs* "Dr Turk. You are an employee here, I can advertise however I wish, I could use your image, your name I can manufacture tiny little Dr Turk action figures, They will cost 12.95 and when you pull the string it will say "I dont like these posters!"" "Thats certainly true sir but you would be vulnerable from a legal standpoint..." "How vulnerable?" "Sir that lawsuit would be over so quickly that I would advise you bring cabfair to the courthouse as he would be driving your beamer home to his place."
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I wasn't really suggesting a plan of action, more wondering what the consequences would be like. Is this at least a suburban area? I suspect the principal might get an earful if students start taking a dump and/or piss on random people's lawns near the school as a substitute for example.
Though gross, probably the best solution. If enough students start having "accidents" as a protest, the stupid admin will have to change their minds.
I have to wonder if it's already happening without prompting. In the OP it says students have wet themselves. Depending on geography, its possible that a student might just hold it long enough to get to lunch (for example) and then dash out of sight to relieve themselves.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
To satisfy my curiosity, what kind of scheduling does the middle school have?
When I was in public school, I had many teachers who did not allow bathroom breaks except in extreme circumstances (such as illness.) Our classes were 45 minutes long so it wasn't a big deal to expect a student to hold it. And I am talking about middle school age students and older. The time we had between classes was for taking care of personal things such as bathroom breaks or saying hi to our friends in the hall.
Of course, this is more of an issue if the school is on block scheduling with 2-hour long class periods. Hence why I was asking. I've heard of middle schools where students don't change classrooms throughout the day but its not anything I've experienced. Maybe its a regional thing.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
In high school we had 90 minute blocks with three minutes between classes to get to our lockers, handle any bathroom issues, and get to the next class. Scheduling was pretty important. Though, other than a quick sip of water between classes, you couldn't drink anything anyway. Lunch was the only time we could have food or drinks.
You know, in hindsight I'm surprised there wasn't something wrong with us.
Middle school was shorter classes and more time between them. But again, no food or drinks except at lunch.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
72 minute classes. Bathrooms are locked so they cannot go between classes.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:In practice, it has gone bad. We have 1,100 students. We only have 3 administrators and 2 security. None of which are female. There has been more then a few cases where no one has even come to my room to take them.
You aren't by any chance teaching math are you?
Give the administrators a little math quiz. Assume that each kid will use the school bathroom on average once during the 7 hour school day and that it will take an adult an average of 5 minutes to escort a student to and from the restroom. How many full time positions will be required to meet the demand for bathroom escorts?
Correct Answer: 13
They have 5 people doing this job all of whom have significant responsibilities other than escorting kids to the bathroom. They can not possibly meet the demand.
Add in a simple cost benefit analysis question. If they were to hire people at minimum wage to do the job, (13 people, 7 hours a day, at $7.25/hour + payroll taxes), it would cost $3595.64 per week. How much did it cost the school to repair bathroom damage caused by vandals?
Add in a legal question. What happens when the first parent brings a lawsuit because their child was publicly humiliated when they wet themselves? If the student happens to be a girl , perhaps a girl starting menses (as will be very common in middle school), there could even be criminal sexual harassment charges.
Realistically, your best bet is to contact the PTA president and discuss the problem. See if there is a parent in the school who is a lawyer and get them to write a letter to the principal on their official stationary warning of the potential legal ramifications of their policy. I'd be willing to be the bathrooms will be unlocked the next day.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I use the restroom probably 6 or 7 times on average during a typically work day. If I had to call someone to escort me there every time, I would probably bring a bottle for peeing. This would be completely unacceptable for me as a student.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
One bathroom in the school should remain open for students to go to - ideally the one in the location that is easiest to monitor. A member of security should be situated in a way that he/she can monitor it. Frankly, I suspect this would save time from having to contact someone to open a bathroom every single time a student needs to go.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Good lord. What about Type-1 diabetics? A spike in blood sugar usually results in an immediate need for the bathroom. In fact, I'm surprised the parents of a diabetic child haven't already sued, citing discrimination.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
It would be career suicide for me to go to parents and encourage them to complain.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
Send an anonymous letter to the editor to your local papers. Contact local news stations.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I live in the Washington area - I'll do it. What school is it?
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I live in the Washington area - I'll do it. What school is it?
Heh, OSC Middle in Greensboro.
[ November 11, 2010, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Give me a day, so I can pay attention to this after work.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
The magic of the internet.
Thanks!
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I wasn't really suggesting a plan of action, more wondering what the consequences would be like. Is this at least a suburban area? I suspect the principal might get an earful if students start taking a dump and/or piss on random people's lawns near the school as a substitute for example.
Though gross, probably the best solution. If enough students start having "accidents" as a protest, the stupid admin will have to change their minds.
I have to wonder if it's already happening without prompting. In the OP it says students have wet themselves. Depending on geography, its possible that a student might just hold it long enough to get to lunch (for example) and then dash out of sight to relieve themselves.
I suspect all the accidents the OP mentioned are real. I assume a school that locks bathrooms doesn't let students have lunch anywhere but the cafeteria.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Honestly, after reading the OP and the rest of this thread, I can't really get my head around any way in which this is not ludicrous. I'm glad Kat volunteered to help out, this just seems to out there...
Hobbes Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
As to the former, perhaps there is a miscommunication. I'm not sure what you mean by "real" and how that relates to what I said.
As to the latter, perhaps, although that would suck (although, by lunch I was referring to the whole lunch-hour experience of eating and having recreation outside rather than just the eating part).
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Try 30 minute lunch, no outside time. My county did away with middle school recess more then a decade ago.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Oh, the security guard offered me pot today.
I swear this is my last school year in the DC metro area.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
That sounds very wise.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
When I was in Jr. High (they didn't build the middle school until I graduated high school), we had ample time to use the facilities between classes. In high school - a sprawling building, we had 4 minutes between classes to go to our lockers, use the restroom, and be in our next class. First period I had band - first floor of the building. I had to run from there to the opposite side of the building to the 3rd floor for my 2nd period English class. In fact, most of my classes went from one side of the building to the far opposite,with almost no time to do anything in between.
I actually Never used my locker after the 1st day of Freshman year because I simply didn't have time, meaning I carried all of my books with me at all times - backache anyone?
Teachers were allowed to give a hall pass to anyone who needed to go to the bathroom, the nurse, or the guidance counselor. There were always a couple of teachers roaming the halls during class time (perhaps monitoring the hall, but I don't know if it was assigned) and if you didn't have a signed hall pass from a teacher or administrator, you got detention.
(Note, in Jr. High we had hall monitors - honor students who stood in their assigned corner of the hallway (a square building with a central cafeteria and gymnasium)for the 5 minutes before 1 period ended and 5 minutes after the next period began - checking the bathrooms, of their genders, on the floor before heading to their classes, discouraging fellow students from being late for class, or hiding in the bathrooms. Perhaps this sort system could help prevent vandalism/ "extracurricular activities" in your school. Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Update:
We have had two more accidents in the last couple of days.
A local homeowner came into the office comaplaining that a girl squatted in the back of his house after school was let out.
Still waiting on a parent outcry.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
Katharina had the same idea that I did.
Depending on which County you're teaching in, I may be able to place this one directly into the Superintendents ear...
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
---------------- County Maryland
[ November 11, 2010, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Has anyone alerted the local news media and/or 20/20?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan:
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I live in the Washington area - I'll do it. What school is it?
Heh, BLANK BLANK Middle in BLANK.
FYI, if kat really does complain and something results from it, you might seriously want to consider editing your post from above. If the Administration even does a cursory internet search they could find the post and try to discover your identity.
I've seen crazier things happen with less information on more obscure websites than this.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Blank-itty sons of blank blank.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Stephan:
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I live in the Washington area - I'll do it. What school is it?
Heh, BLANK BLANK Middle in BLANK.
FYI, if kat really does complain and something results from it, you might seriously want to consider editing your post from above. If the Administration even does a cursory internet search they could find the post and try to discover your identity.
I've seen crazier things happen with less information on more obscure websites than this.
This was my thought as well.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
My first thought was, screw it, I'm tenured.
But decided to edit anyways, thanks for the advice. Especially because my first name really is Stephan.
A little bird that hangs around the main office says I am on the principal's radar because I call down for bathroom escorts more then most teachers. I call down at most 3 times, usually 2 in a day. My afternoon students haven't had a chance to use the bathroom since lunch 3 hours prior. One of my morning classes doesn't get lunch until almost 4 horus in to the school day. Those would be the students you would expect to need to go during class.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Y'Know the producers of Boston Public should pay you for this material.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Y'Know the producers of Boston Public should pay you for this material.
Oh I got more.
Yesterday morning the art teacher gently removes the hat off of a student's head, and two small bags of pot fall out. Admin interrogates the kid who spills the beans on the entire drug ring at our school. THEY WON'T CALL THE POLICE.
Now I know some will say, maybe its a good thing, the kids was just carrying under pressure from those in charge, why should his life get ruined?
Well as it stand, the kid in charge of it all never has anything on him at school, not even any cash. So the school has no evidence against anyone but the carrier at the bottom who will probably be up for expulsion. If the police were involved they may have a better chance at going after the ring leader.
Yesterday the principal had both staff refridgerators wrapped up in paper with orders on it not to open it. He decided to put fundraiser food in there without telling the staff why. My own little act of rebellion involved ripping off the paper to stick my lunch in it. I was fuming.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Your school is messed up.
If the schoolboard is any better, I suggest contacting whatever the closest equivalent to an ombudsman is. And putting in an anonymous tip to the police.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Seriously considering a fake email address and sending something to the superintendent.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Go for it. Only don't send an email, send a letter, in a priority envelope. I guarantee he'll read it, then, and be unlikely to dismiss it.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Y'Know the producers of Boston Public should pay you for this material.
Oh I got more.
Yesterday morning the art teacher gently removes the hat off of a student's head, and two small bags of pot fall out. Admin interrogates the kid who spills the beans on the entire drug ring at our school. THEY WON'T CALL THE POLICE.
Now I know some will say, maybe its a good thing, the kids was just carrying under pressure from those in charge, why should his life get ruined?
Well as it stand, the kid in charge of it all never has anything on him at school, not even any cash. So the school has no evidence against anyone but the carrier at the bottom who will probably be up for expulsion. If the police were involved they may have a better chance at going after the ring leader.
Yesterday the principal had both staff refridgerators wrapped up in paper with orders on it not to open it. He decided to put fundraiser food in there without telling the staff why. My own little act of rebellion involved ripping off the paper to stick my lunch in it. I was fuming.
The fact that the teacher probably removed the hat against the student's wishes probably contributed to the decision not to call the police. Any unauthorized touching of a student is a lawsuit ready to happen.
It also sounds like your principle is a little bit of a moron. How long has he been in school administration?
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
This is his third year in our county, but has been a principal in other states for a few more years.
Not quite true about unauthorized touching. The training we go through is very clear on things. I can playfully take a hat off a child without worry.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Ah alright then. I know in my school district you cannot touch a student at all by any means. If you need something done you have to call the school police.
It is strange how things have changed just in the past 20 years. When I was elementary school my principle still had a paddle hanging up on his wall.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
There are many areas around the country where paddling is still permitted. Some require explicit parental consent (the case with one of my kids' schools), some do not.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: Try 30 minute lunch, no outside time. My county did away with middle school recess more then a decade ago.
It has gotten worse and worse hasn't it? I remember my elementary days- it was a 10 minute recess, a 20 minute, then 40 minutes after lunch. My students today get 20 minutes in the morning, none of it outside, and no lunch hour at all.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I thought back to elementary school recess and almost teared up . I had a 4th grade teacher that everyone looked at as a big brother. During recess while all of the other teachers would smoke by the wall and talk, he would throw footballs to us, play frisbee, or participate in other activities.
Everyone in class wanted him to be proud of them. If you got less than a B on a test he would come over and spend time with you helping you understand the material. He made it a point to try to go to every one of his student's birthday parties during the year as well. Even after that school year I received a birthday card from him until I was a Sophmore in high school. I learned how to balance a check book from him
I really hope that one day my kids have teachers like that.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Public schools sound like they're more jail than school these days. That's going to have really bad implications for our democracy in the long run. That worries me.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Whatever happened to going in pairs?
You pair the children up responsible and irresponsible. If the irresponsible one starts causing trouble, the responsible one comes back and say, "Miss... Blah is <insert childish behaviour here>."
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I despised being paired up that way in grade school. I was the responsible one, which meant that I was the one who would be asked to tattle on my classmate, or be the one to actually do the work in a group project. It felt like I was being punished for not being a problem.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
I thought pairing up students is what started the ban in the first place.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: I thought pairing up students is what started the ban in the first place.
No, that was students pairing themselves.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I'm with Jake. Pairing up students that way puts WAY too much pressure on the "good" kids, who are probably already struggling with being labeled teacher's pet and other carp. Children should not be responsible for policing or tattling on other children. OR The responsible one gets blamed for problems the immature one causes. (this actually happened to my daughter when she was in 3rd grade... I had to insist she be moved away from the boy she was supposed to be "helping" and told the teacher(s) that none of my children would ever be put in that situation again.)
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
Like most of the previous posters, I question the legality of such a policy. However, the solution that I came up with is leaving one bathroom of each gender unlocked(preferably the one nearest the school's front office). The increased traffic to these bathrooms would be a deterrent for anyone attempting to vandalize property or to have sex. Regularly, the 3 administrators and 2 security could check in on the bathrooms.
Initially, I see some problems with the plan. 1) No female administrators and security to check in on the Women's restroom. This might be solved by asking some of the female teacher's to run by the restroom during their planning period. 2) There would be a backup to use the restroom in between periods making kids late for classes. (Though I see this as better than denying kids access to the bathroom.) 3) An increased walk to the bathroom from a class would give a kid more time to do mischief in other areas of the school. Have teachers for a portion of their planning period roam halls?
Probably more problem's exist, but I see this as a temporary solution until this policy is overturned by parent/public outcry.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
The best plan of all is for the kids to pee on the floor outside the locked restrooms until they're opened. That would get the policy changed really quickly, I bet.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Yeah that would work. Heh.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
That's some random resurrection?
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
lol.. no kidding!
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
But while we're here, how did it all turn out?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Well, to this day urine a lot of trouble if you try to use the restroom.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Yeah, you'd better mind your pees and queues.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Urethra going to have to hold it, or find a bush. You're bladder off just going before you come to school.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I actually learned how to politely insist on bathroom access when my nieces were young. If the question is asked in such a way as to imply not so much whether as where, then the people granting access tend to be much more forthcoming, for some reason. "May we please use your bathroom" just doesn't convey the same urgency that "Where would you like us to use the bathroom" does.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
:: laugh ::
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Take teachers for example - we cannot legally leave our classrooms unattended, even during class changes we have assignments. I can go to the restroom at 7:30 before school begins, during my planning period, and after school at 3:00. That's it - every other time I have some assigned duty that keeps me in my classroom or out in the hall.
Wow, that seems like rather inhumane working conditions. The human body doesn't always adhere to schedules. What are you supposed to do when you have an unexpected urgent need to go and its hours until your next break?
That doesn't sound too bad to me, I work the graveyard shift alone in a gas station and when I'm busy going to the bathroom is never an option. Between uncontrollable customer traffic, taking in deliveries that must be individually counted in and all the while cleaning and stocking its not rare that I never have the opportunity to simply lock the door for a couple of minutes. I've known security guards who have done jobs on construction sites at night where they "guard" little more than a sensitive hole in the ground, but while they do it they are entirely alone and if they require a real bathroom a supervisor has to drive all the way out to where ever the site is and watch the hole in the ground for them.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
If only there were a convenient hole for them to relieve themselves in.
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