I don't normally watch news on TV - basically I get my news virally propogated through facebook and forums like this one. Whether this is a good thing or not is probably a subject for an entire seperate thread. (I wouldn't mind if this thread ended up addressing that issue, but it's not my main purpose)
I've been vaguely aware that MSNBC was considered "the liberal news" by a lot of people but hadn't actually seen anything on it. Then the other day I started seeing ads in the train station with "MSNBC, Lean Forward" tagline, and statements like:
"One Nation, In Progress"
"Dare to dream that tomorrow can be better than today"
"Celebrate the best ideas, no matter where they come from"
"Opinions should be earned."
So apparently they're officially embracing the liberal moniker, and doing so proudly. I'm curious what people who actually watch news "the old way" think about this. Good thing? Bad thing? I like the signs, since they're an advertisement for the Progressive mindset as much as anything else, and I think if more people had that mindset the world would be a better place regardless of what their specific ideas on how progress should be.
This probably IS a good move in terms of business sense as well. I'm just not sure if it's a good move in terms of actually promoting a good news environment. But since I don't even have a stake in the traditional news environment I'm not sure I care.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
You know, I've never really understood why those phrases (or taglines to a similar vein) are considered liberal.
A nation in progress may need to "get back to basics" in order to move forward. That's a fairly conservative perspective.
To say that liberals have exclusive domain to believe that "tomorrow can be better than today" implies that conservatives don't think tomorrow could be better. I don't think that.
"Celebrate the best ideas, no matter where there come from" -- Including ideas from conservatives?
"Opinions should be earned." -- I actually really like this one. Whether a liberal or conservative, surely you should be informed in your opinion, no?
Don't get me wrong. MSNBC is pretty darn liberal, but I don't think this ad campaign is the smoking gun to their liberalism.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think that's part of what makes it a good ad campaign - it gives MSNBC a positive identity that most people can agree with, as opposed to defining itself as "the opposite of Fox" or whatever. But whether or not these phrases necessarily have to mean "liberal" they are pretty obvious codewords that most people will recognize. Especially in context of the bias that MSNBC is reported to have (whether or not it actually does).
There's lots of different ways to define liberalism and conservatism, but at least a fairly common one is that conservatives place greater emphasis on holding onto things that work, and liberals put greater emphasis on changing the things that don't. The negative spin you can put on both of those is that conservatives end up holding onto things that are harmful and liberals create dangerous instability in their endless quest to improve things.
I know conservatives (and liberals, and people who don't ascribe themselves to a political label) who don't define themselves that way, but I definitely know some who do. And I think most politically active people I know are at least aware of the liberal/progressive buzzphrases that the Lean Forward campaign is referencing.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: "Opinions should be earned."
I'm not sure I understand this one. Who should earn whose opinions? And how do they earn them?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
By checking them with facts, is the point. "Evolution is hoax" can be your opinion if you really want it to be, but if you don't have facts to back it up, it really shouldn't be.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:A nation in progress may need to "get back to basics" in order to move forward.
I'm not sure I understand this; I can't think of a scenario in which a nation "getting back to basics" would do itself any favors. But that's a digression.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I'd think "getting back to basics" would be helpful if applied to deficit spending.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:"One Nation, In Progress"
"Dare to dream that tomorrow can be better than today"
"Celebrate the best ideas, no matter where they come from"
"Opinions should be earned."
I'm either so ensconced in the liberal mindset that I can't think outside the box, or...if these are ONLY liberal ideas, then I seriously fear for this country.
Really examining them though pokes a lot of holes in conservative ideology, assuming their ideology is the opposite of these statements.
One Nation in Progress - As opposed to already being perfect now? Conservatives like to harp on American Exceptionalism, but can you really make the argument that America doesn't have any room for improvement? It's ridiculous. Saying it that bluntly would get either a laugh or a withering stare from almost any roomful of Americans in the country. Therefore I don't see it as a liberal idea that we still have fixes to make. The devil is in the details. Dare to dream is just a restatement of this same principle.
Celebrate the best ideas...- Again, it's disturbing that this should only be a liberal idea. The opposite suggests that we should ignore the best ideas regardless if they don't happen to either fall in line with us ideologically or happen to be on our side. I'd rather be tagged with this motto than the opposite, and if I was a conservative I'd find it insulting, and I'd feel like I was being called stupid.
Opinions should be earned- Maybe this one is a little trickier. The idea behind it of course is that not all opinions are equal. If two people want to drill in different places for oil, but one is a geologist and one is a zoologist, obviously their opinions don't carry the same weight. I think the problem with the statement is that if you don't have the qualifications, you can't have an opinion, which I have a problem with. Everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean all opinions are created equal. Actually, a better tagline would have been "Not all opinions are created equal." Plays with Founding language a little better. This sentiment though does address the antipathy that conservatives appear to celebrate towards all facets of higher learning, and gets at the heart of what Colbert talks about all the time regarding perception vs. reality.
Really, I don't think these are liberal ideas. I think they could best be applied to the moderate centrists of the nation that have no ideological leanings towards one side or the other in particular, and just want solutions to fix problems, regardless of sources.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
Those aren't solely liberal ideas any more than 'family values' are solely conservative values. But some words and phrases have been used more by democrats/liberals and some more by republicans/conservatives, to the point where they are associated with one side or another.
I don't watch TV news much, so I'm not familiar with these taglines. But President Obama has specifically used the ideas of hopes and dreams in his campaigning, so I'm not surprised that "Dare to dream that tomorrow can be better than today" could be associated with a liberal bent. And considering that 'progressive' is often used interchangeably with 'liberal', "One Nation, In Progress" certainly suggests a liberal view.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Individually some of them wouldn't be that stand-out liberal. But the key idea that keeps getting repeated is "progress" and the association of liberalism and the "Progressive Movement" is at least a hundred years old.
(And yeah, Family Values is a good example of a conservative flipside buzzword).
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:A nation in progress may need to "get back to basics" in order to move forward.
I'm not sure I understand this; I can't think of a scenario in which a nation "getting back to basics" would do itself any favors. But that's a digression.
Not that I agree with the argument, but some would contend peeling back regulation is necessary for our nation to progress.
For example, in a Monopoly game my family played we had complicated rental agreements on each property, (3/4s rent to this player, 1/3 rent to this player, etc.) gave loans to each other with turn-by-turn repayment plans, and had split ownership of property. It slowed the game down considerably each turn as we sifted through pages of additional deals and rules. If we went "back to basics," the game would have proceeded smoothly.
That being said, it was one of the funnest games of Monopoly I've ever played. Maybe that's what we need in this country. Don't view regulation as a burden, see it as an opportunity to have fun!
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
quote:they are pretty obvious codewords
I don't believe in codewords.
I believe that people make up their mind to be against something or somebody and then accuse them of evil thing by speaking in codewords.
Several folks in Salem were burned because the accusers implied they spoke in "codewords" that revealed their demonic dealings.
Accusing anyone of using "Codewords" is saying, "They are guilty because they said things that mean what I want them to mean."
No, I don't believe in codewords.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
The Raven is cawing! Initiate protocol "Black Bird Pie".
Repo-man out.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
See, code words, and I don't believe a word of it.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I will note that "Progressive" isn't really a code work, it's the actual name a political party.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"Lean Forward and Fall Back"
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:A nation in progress may need to "get back to basics" in order to move forward.
I'm not sure I understand this; I can't think of a scenario in which a nation "getting back to basics" would do itself any favors. But that's a digression.
What does it even mean? People say it as if the nation functions the same way families or individuals do. Yes, *you* can get back to basics and cut out the distractions, but countries don't do that. So is it code language for abandoning your long term plans in favor of short term gains?
Sometimes I am actually frightened by the prospect that there may be people out there who believe that because no single person can understand everything that a government does and everything that a government is involved in, that this means that government itself is too complicated, and in need of getting "back to basics." Worse, that there are people out there who think this is *actually possible*.