I just read an article on a place in Phoenix that calls itself a church, accepts donations and then gives "spiritual healing" in the form of massage and... release. Apparently there are several more of these places scattered around the west coast with three in Seattle alone, and while there has been raids and arrests by and large they operate without legal action taken against them.
Here is the article, it does detail some of the rituals in question and is definatly nsfw. No member of this church holds a license in anything related to therepy or even massage, and yet advertise massage and sexual therapy and have gotten away with it for years.
quote: he sent an e-mail stressing Phoenix Goddess Temple is not a massage parlor. "We do not do massage in any form," he wrote. "We don't even use the word massage."
But they do. As of this writing, on the temple's website under "General FAQs," they advertise "prostate massage."
Do you think that what they do falls under religious freedom? Are there any differances between temple of sexual healing and a brothel? Can you respond without an Inara referance?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Sex as a form of healing is new to me, but sex as part of a religious rite is as old as the Bible. This doesn't seem to be religious at all, but rather new age medicine.
I really can't see a significant difference between this and prostitution, but our current laws against prostitution are not exactly my favorite pieces of legislation either.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
It's got a bit of an edge when it comes to people seeking spiritual justification for seeking prostitutes in a way which causes them moral crisis. Due to religious sexual repression or whatever.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Looking through thier FAQ where they have answered some questions, including the response that there is to be no mentioning of payment in the room and all donations should be in cash.
From the FAQ
quote: Guests frequently desire a shorter session to save money, fearing that a longer commitment would 'waste money' if the session is not to your liking. An hour of "Surrender to Yin" with Root Chakra Health (prostate orgasm) would also do nicely. If you do come in for Prostate healing, you do not need to see only Mia, others here can offer that as well. The 1/2 Prostate session is $125 / 30 minutes and is really a health / healing appointment,
Yup, totally not a brothel.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: .. Do you think that what they do falls under religious freedom?
I don't generally think that religion should be used to justify religious people doing stuff that people are legally barred from doing in the first place.
That said, I'm not really a fan of the current laws regarding prostitution, but I don't really go for the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type thinking.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I feel I should remind everyone that here in Arizona Indians still use peyote legally in religious practices, to play devils advocate catholics give kids wine and other christians handle dangerous snakes even endangering children in the process but are protected by the law while they do so. The basic arguments are pretty easy to identify and a good lawyer can make those stretch.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Ha! I was so thinking holographic prostitution here. Dude, it doesn't work that way yet!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Sex as a form of healing is new to me
Not a Marvin Gaye fan?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Sex as a form of healing is new to me
Not a Marvin Gaye fan?
Apparently not a good enough one, I'm not recalling the song you're referencing.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I don't know exactly where these churches are located, but are they in a county in which prostitution is legal?
Here in Las Vegas prostitution is illegal, but about an hour away in Pahrump there are quite a few legal brothels .
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Sex as a form of healing is new to me
Not a Marvin Gaye fan?
Nice
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I think these sound like thinly disguised brothels, but I don't think the concept of sexual ministration is inherently incompatible with the protections on free exercise of religion. So it would be difficult to rule this kind of thing out legally, IMO.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: .. Do you think that what they do falls under religious freedom?
I don't generally think that religion should be used to justify religious people doing stuff that people are legally barred from doing in the first place.
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm concerned about people who might use "religion" solely as a means to circumvent the laws but none the less I think governments shouldn't bar any legitimate religious practice without a really compelling reason.
Of course if there isn't a compelling reason for a law, maybe it shouldn't be a law at all. I think the problem arises with laws that are at least controversial to begin with. I can't imagine anyone arguing that we should allow human sacrifice because its religious, but what about animal sacrifice?, drug use? or prostitution?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Not a lawyer, but it seems to me that a prosecutor would make the case that they are not really a religious community by observing that their clients (most likely) belong to other churches. The peyote-using sect doesn't allow just anyone to come along and take a hit of the peyote; there's an initiation ritual, and other rites you're expected to show up for, and stuff. You're not allowed to take the peyote but leave the rest of the religion.
They would have a much better case if the sexual healing stuff was limited to people who had, let's say, shown up at their weekly rituals for a few months, or something like that. If they just hand it out to anyone who walks in off the street, it looks a lot more like prostitution.
None of which has any bearing on whether it ought to be legal; I support legal prostitution. But I think the above is how it would play out in an American court under current law, and the 'church' would lose.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... Of course if there isn't a compelling reason for a law, maybe it shouldn't be a law at all.
Thats pretty much my thinking. I usually lean toward "decriminalize, regulate, and tax" Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I would support such a church's right to exist over one that taught its followers to hate Jews, or gays, or Muslims, or Planned Parenthood doctors, or whoever else.
At least this church's teachings are all about happiness and kindness.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: I would support such a church's right to exist over one that taught its followers to hate Jews, or gays, or Muslims, or Planned Parenthood doctors, or whoever else.
At least this church's teachings are all about happiness and kindness.
Until the "priestesses" start demanding too large a share of the "donations" and so they resort to virtual slaves with questionable immigration statuses.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Sex as a form of healing is new to me
Not a Marvin Gaye fan?
Apparently not a good enough one, I'm not recalling the song you're referencing.
*chuckle*
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Sex as a form of healing is new to me
Not a Marvin Gaye fan?
Apparently not a good enough one, I'm not recalling the song you're referencing.
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
Nice
![[Smile]](smile.gif)