I love the city sky-line in the background, and the kids were adorable. I think this may be the only video where "kill the jews" appears on a calender and it not be horribly inappropiate.
Edit I just rewatched Candlelight, you guys are getting some miles out of that astronaut suit.
[ March 08, 2011, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: AchillesHeel ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Why are you so far in the background?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Why are you so far in the background?
Heh, this reminds me of a fantastic episode of Malcolm in the Middle.
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
I can't believe how many differently shaped bottles of grape juice you managed to find.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Why are you so far in the background?
I'm not a soloist in this vid! Happy to share the spotlight with my buds. Plus, I choose the soloists, so I take credit for their awesomeness.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Damn. That's some bad timing. When did you find out about the one done by The Fountainheads?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Of course, there's the Kanye West Purim thing from a few years back.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Damn. That's some bad timing. When did you find out about the one done by The Fountainheads?
last week. Most stressful week ever.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Plus, I choose the soloists, so I take credit for their awesomeness.
Well done. The chorus and their harmonies were especially lovely. I hadn't heard the original song but went and looked for it after. I think I actually prefer your arrangement. There's a sweet softness to it.
And bonus points for the educational value. I was only vaguely familiar with the story of Esther and didn't know there was a whole holiday involved. And considering that today is Fat Tuesday, I especially noticed the costumes (really cool how its highlights the "hidden hand of God" aspect of the story.) I'm not sure how the Jewish calendar works but does Purim often fall around the same time as Carnival?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Were the songs legitimately developed in tandem? That's a pretty weird coincidence.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Huffington Post:
Yours is ten times better. And, I think it is much better than Candlelight.
Excellent job, well done. Don't let it stress you - it was a coincidence. Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
quote: I'm not sure how the Jewish calendar works but does Purim often fall around the same time as Carnival?
The custom of masquerading on Purim did develop in Renaissance Italy where the Jewish community was influenced by Carnival.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
The other one isn't terrible, but the Maccabeats version is better in several key areas, the biggest being listenability. [Get off my back, Firefox. It is so a word.] Plus, their style of storytelling is fairly derivative of yours, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Excellent job, Armoth and crew.
(By the way, when that dude said the G-word I got shivers.)
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I like the nods to the previous vid...the guy spilling his food in his lap, the appearance of the Greeks...
Nicely done. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
We like it.
Any other day, I would have seen this thread within probably 15-30 minutes of it having been posted, and would have immediately emailed various people. Including my sister.
Today I had no internet access from about 3 hours before this song was posted until a few minutes ago. (2 day training with the Department of Ed. And I didn't feel like paying $10 during my lunch break for internet access at the hotel.) So when I dropped by my parents' house this afternoon to pick up my kids, my sister had seen the video already (via Facebook, which she has and I do not).
Man, timing is everything. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by adenam: I can't believe how many differently shaped bottles of grape juice you managed to find.
Really? I would bet I've had one of each of those size and shape in my house at some point in each year, most years. Many on Purim. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Is the viewer count broken? There are far more likes and dislikes than the current count of 302. It seems stuck at that number.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Is the viewer count broken? There are far more likes and dislikes than the current count of 302. It seems stuck at that number.
Although, I'm a bit disappointed you didn't choose to do something for Passover. I'd love to see your group do something with "Why is this night different from all other nights" in a sacred tone, perhaps using music from some classical choral work. I think it could be spectacular and show the versatility of your group, because you don't just do light funny holiday stuff. Maybe next year.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I love this and Purim is one of my favorite holidays but think that Purim is inherently a lot less marketable than Passover. That said, great job!
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Oh man, I saw this on The Daily What. I had forgotten there was a Hatrack connection!
Cool.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Very fun video and the music is fantastic, you guys are great. I don't think I ever posted on the Candlelight thread, that was wonderful too.
Oh, and much better than that other group's video.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good job on YU Radio today. Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Thanks guys!
Rivka, did they play that today? It happened this past Thursday...
We were offered a spot on WABC radio on Purim day, but I think the guys are turning it down so they can spend time with family...and drink...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Huh. I thought they said Tuesday. I must have misheard.
My Google Alert found it yesterday. It often finds things about 12 hours after they are posted, so I assumed it really was from the same day. Oops!
Also, I've decided. I have never coveted the ability to lingually produce snare-drum sounds, or synthesizer sounds. And I still don't. But I do covet the ability to lingually produce the sounds of a gragger. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I was kind of surprised that this didn't come up after Candlelight. For the record, I disagree with him (not least of all in his mischaracterizaion of Vashti).
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I think that guy is a bit off base. Mordecai's roll in the story is equally expunged, and it's all shrunk down to Esther and Haman. Heck, even the king is absent. So what? A music video is a quick romp around a musical/narrative idea, presented in just a few minutes, and then done.
He didn't really offer any solutions either. Did he want an adult playing Esther who sits around the table, but doesn't sing? And why does he focus on Esther being played by a baby? All the actors in the story are children. Only the Maccabeats are adults. It allows for two separate things to be introduced, and those two things are then brought together at the table. History playing out with a modern day Purim celebration.
Finally, where did he get the impression Vashti was taking a stand for women's rights? I didn't see that indicated anywhere in the text. I mean perhaps that's what she was going for, but her motives are entirely left out in the narrative.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
what does the greek say when he holds out the basket?
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Jeorge - He says Freilechin Purim, which is yiddish for "Happy Purim"
Yea. The Maccabeats are all mulling over the article. Honestly, it's very weird to be the object of negative press, or even negative comments for that matter. I suppose its to be expected, but its really odd to find blogs or posts on twitter and facebook talking about you negatively. Obviously we get tons of positive feedback, so its really about keeping your head in the game and in perspective.
In this particular instance, we preferred not to use an adult woman as Esther because it would be weird - we're an all male acapella group, so an adult woman would be an actress - and it seemed jarring and out of place to introduce a new "character." So we chose kids, for the reason BB guessed.
In terms of having women at the party - it was also an issue, just because there are 14 maccabeats, and we pretty much swarmed the table as it is. We could have had the wives and fiances of the maccabeats in the shot, but I personally didnt think it was a good idea, because we weren't interested in reading people's comments about other guys' wives and gfs. But maybe we're in the public eye enough that it might be important enough for us to bite the bullet and include women in the meal scenes, simply because it might mean a lot to some people.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Personally, the article read to me like someone trying to make a point and deciding they'd get the most attention by bringing the Maccabeats into it.
I thought this line from the article was the most bizarre: "Don’t allow yourself to be marginalized. Write your own story, show your power, raise your glass, raise your voice: That’s the point of the song."
This makes me wonder why they expect the Maccabeats to shove a bunch of women into their video. Why doesn't an all-female group out and do their own Jewish remixes of modern songs? The Maccabeats did their own thing in a way that seems true to the group. "Raise Your Glass" didn't come out of right field when compared to "Candlelight." They're both done in a similar playful style and with a sense of humor. Looks to me like the group is doing their own thing and the success of both videos is something you and the guys should all be proud of.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Meh. They're trying too hard.
In a world with 6 billion people plus, you are going to find a wide range of world views and opinions. Some of them are bound to disagree with your choices. *shrug*
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I don't think the Maccabeats need to feel guilty about not having women in the video. But I do think that, collectively, portrayal of women in media is an issue. People are not morally obligated to address that issue in every artwork they create. But it is morally commendable to make that effort, if you can do so in a way that makes sense within the context of your art.
I'm not familiar with the original story so I can't comment there. I do think the issue stands out a little more because you were specifically parodying Raise your Glass. (Raise your Glass is my single favorite modern mainstream music video, precisely because it address the issue of "invisibleness.")
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
While I would get a huge kick out of seeing the wives and kallahs in the videos (mostly because I know two of them), I agree that it's not necessary. There are many things that make me feel marginalized -- this really is NOT one of them.
To the article I say:
Also, I agree with Lisa about their getting Vashti completely backwards.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: But it is morally commendable to make that effort, if you can do so in a way that makes sense within the context of your art.
Yes, and it seems to me as though the article authors are being a bit unreasonable in their expectations. It's almost like they are stomping their feet and saying, "How dare you NOT promote the cause that we feel strongly about?" with a pretty weak argument the context calls for such a promotion.
There are a lot of things that I believe in, but don't make a part of every artistic expression I produce. Live with it. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I agreed with Shanna's statement, actually:
quote:Personally, the article read to me like someone trying to make a point and deciding they'd get the most attention by bringing the Maccabeats into it.
I don't think it was necessary to frame the Maccabeats in a negative light. I care a lot about gender representation and I wouldn't have thought about it in relation to this video until it was pointed out. Having had it pointed out, I might consider whether it makes sense for their next project, but I wouldn't go out of my way to worry about it if it didn't fit.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
A friend of mine posted that link on Facebook. This is one of the responses I posted (the author of the article posted back disagreeing):
quote:I think that it's ludicrous to criticize a men's a capella group for doing a video with only men. It comes across as just looking for a reason to complain. Not to mention that this isn't *just* a men's a capella group, but one from YU.
When I was in college, there was an argument over whether the kitchens in the Hillel should stay kosher. The Reform and some of the Conservative students wanted to be able to bring in whatever they felt like, and claimed that their rights were being trampled upon by the terrible fascist frummies.
The counter-argument was that the Reform Jews *could* eat kosher food, while the Orthodox Jews *couldn't* eat treyf food. And that given this, the appropriate thing would be to make the kitchen at the Hillel accessible to everyone.
The Reform counter-counter-argument was that while it was true that they *could* eat kosher food, it hurt their feelings to have to. I hope I don't have to explain how that's an incredibly petty and thoughtless argument.
So, Candlelight. There was an incredibly wide and diverse viewership of that video. It's probably the single greatest act of pirsumei nissa in Jewish history, in that it spoke to the whole world, and not just with platitudes like, "Hanukkah is about religious freedom". But a significant group of Jews would have been alienated by the video including female performers. You know this. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but you know it's the case. And even if you don't agree with their reasons, you also have to accept that they have grounds for their position (particularly in context of their communities). I don't happen to agree with them either, but I can see where they're coming from.
So. They could have included women performers and driven part of their viewership away, or done the simple thing of keeping a video of an all-male a capella group from an Orthodox college all-male. And the only counter-counter-argument is that while feminists *could* watch a video that didn't include women, it hurt their feelings to do so. V'hameivin yavin.
Esther is the star of the whole Megillah. It isn't like she'll be missing on Purim. This one song didn't focus on her. Find a better fight.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Lisa, I saw the exchange on FB. I wish I could comment. Either way, I appreciate your zealous defense.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I didn't realize it'd be visible.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Yea. The Maccabeats are all mulling over the article. Honestly, it's very weird to be the object of negative press, or even negative comments for that matter. I suppose its to be expected, but its really odd to find blogs or posts on twitter and facebook talking about you negatively. Obviously we get tons of positive feedback, so its really about keeping your head in the game and in perspective.
My take on this situation, for what its worth is that the criticism isn't really about the Maccabeats or your video at all.
As I understand it, the Maccabeats are part of a Jewish school that strives toward "Torah Umadda" which I understand to be a middle path between the purely secular and purely religious views. Middle paths are always going to be under attack from both sides. Those who reject secularism entirely will criticize you for being too liberal and those who embrace secularism will criticize you for not being liberal enough. As the Maccabeats becomes increasingly recognized, you become a lightening rod for criticism of the middle path from both sides. Because people are interested in talking about you, couching criticism of the middle path as criticism of your latest video, is a way to get people to listen to their objections to aspects of Torah Umadda.
Blitt and Feigleson aren't really criticising your video. They are using your video as a spring board to criticize Orthodox Jews (and Yeshiva University) for what they perceive as sexist practices.
The opposite side was doing a very similar thing with the criticism written about "Candlelight" that focused on the "filthy" nature of the original Dynamite video. They were using your video as a spring board to criticize the idea that Jews can embrace both secularism and strict Torah observance.
I don't know if it helps or not, but the criticism isn't really about the Maccabeats or your work. Its about your school of Judaism and I'm sure its nothing new to you that Jews both to the right and left of you are critical of what you are trying to do.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Rabbit, I think that's pretty spot on.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I think it's totally spot on. Excellent analysis, Rabbit.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I agree as well. I'd note to Lisa, that I think your facebook post was in some ways counter productive. Your first line:
quote:I think that it's ludicrous to criticize a men's a capella group for doing a video with only men.
Is the only argument you need. When you go on to say:
quote:But a significant group of Jews would have been alienated by the video including female performers.
Your essentially engaging Blitt and Feigelson with the argument they want to be having, which is not about the Maccabeats. Of course Orthodox Jews would be alienated. Blitt and Feigelson's point is that the issue is more important than the alienation of Orthodox Jews. The points of "um, dude, it's a male acappella group?" and "Creating an experience celebrating Purim that all Jews can appreciate is more important than addressing certain issues of Orthodox Judaism" are evidence for two separate arguments, and when used together I think they undermine each other.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Agree with Rabbit.
We're actually getting a lot of people emailing us their support - which we really appreciate. I'm glad people are seeing this for what it is.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I agree as well. I'd note to Lisa, that I think your facebook post was in some ways counter productive. Your first line:
quote:I think that it's ludicrous to criticize a men's a capella group for doing a video with only men.
Is the only argument you need. When you go on to say:
quote:But a significant group of Jews would have been alienated by the video including female performers.
Your essentially engaging Blitt and Feigelson with the argument they want to be having, which is not about the Maccabeats. Of course Orthodox Jews would be alienated.
I wish you were right. That's exactly the problem. Feigelson is ostensibly an Orthodox rabbi. He was ordained by Yeshivat Chovevei Torah (YCT), which is a left-wing yeshiva created because YU (or the RIETS yeshiva there) was considered too right-wing by some of the extremely left-wing modern Orthodox folks.
There are a lot of people who have major problems with YCT, and I'm one of them. What he wrote sounds like it was written by a Conservative or Reform rabbi.
So yes, you're right that "Of course Orthodox Jews would be alienated." But not Orthodox Jews of Feigelson's stripe. I mean, I wouldn't have been offended, either. There are plenty of modern Orthodox Jews who aren't way to the left like Feigelson, but still wouldn't have a problem with it. But he knows full well that there are plenty of Orthodox Jews who would have been offended. He just doesn't care.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: Agree with Rabbit.
We're actually getting a lot of people emailing us their support - which we really appreciate. I'm glad people are seeing this for what it is.
Yay. I'm glad.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:But he knows full well that there are plenty of Orthodox Jews who would have been offended. He just doesn't care.
Based on what he said, I think he cares very much. But what he cares about is changing the attitude of the those Jews rather than accommodating what he believes is active harmful to women. I suspect he sees the prohibitions against mixed gender performances as being cultural rather than authentically religious.
Its very rare for devout religious people to sincerely believe that their personal practices are either more or less strict than the ideal. They may give lip service to the acceptability of certain variations, but quietly (or sometimes not so quietly) look down on both the stricter and the more lenient. It's a widespread problem.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
What exactly is the prohibition and where does it come from?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
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