For one brief glorious moment I thought Mythic was coming out with a Dark Age of Camelot II.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Man, talk about a misleading title.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
I thought the article was kind of interesting, and I liked how they didn't present compact fluorescents as a panacea (I think the light they give is pretty terrible and the pollution doesn't offset the energy savings). I think LEDs are the future of lighting, but only if the technology gets cheaper.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
I think the pollution aspect for compact fluorescent can be mitigated by a well-developed and ubiquitous recycling program/education campaign.
In one room at home that is lighted by 8 compact florescent bulbs in recessed lighting fixtures, I replaced a single bulb with an LED equivalent. (~$60!) The LED bulb is superior in start-up time and dimmability, but once the compact fluorescents warm up I don't see an appreciable difference in the quality of light.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
When you consider the mercury that gets emitted into the air versus the mercury in a CFL, it's apples and oranges. You dramatically reduce these emissions by switching, and if you recycle the bulbs, it never even escapes the glass.
GE for awhile was focused on HEIs (High Efficiency Incandescents) that they wanted on shelves by 2014, so they still have a couple years. There might be a year or two of pain, but frankly I think people stockpiling a few extra bulbs is going to mitigate the damage. Personally I don't see the light quality difference. A few years ago CFLs were noticeably worse, but now I doubt most people could tell the difference in a side by side comparison where you can't actually see the bulb itself. The technology has come a long way in a short period of time, and it seems that most arguments are against old CFLs, rather than new ones.
Still, most designers argue that we need to get away from bulbs entirely and into more integrated lighting systems that utilize LEDs in a more dispersed pattern. The article mentioned this briefly, but it'll be a bigger point moving forward.
Incandescents are evil, and they need to die. This is one of those times when I have no problem with government regulation because most people wouldn't change their behavior unless compelled to, regardless of what is best for them. CFLs are a great stepping stone, and by the end of the decade, we'll have brand new, and far cheaper, lighting technologies to choose from. I'm glad "efficiency" is finally becoming a watchword in this country.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The CFLs with candelabra bases take a long time to come fully on. And the vast majority of ceiling fan fixtures have candelabra bases. I walk into my office and turn on the light, and it takes more than a full minute for the room to be fully lit. That's insane. Incandescents are much better, and it's none of the governments damned business what kind of lightbulbs I choose to buy.
And I tried some of the LEDs. I got one that clusters over a dozen LEDs inside the bulb. It gives off about as much light as your average blue canary nightlight. A pointless waste of money.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Even by your own standards of what the government should be involved in, it could be considered their business considering the pollution involved that impacts *everyone*and that cannot be cleaned up except by not making it in the first place.
Also, a minute?! That's madness! Absolutely unconscionable! You and anyone else who wants to should have no impediment to using bulbs that harm the environment, which we all share and all our descendants, because of mild present inconvenience. Makes perfect sense.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:And I tried some of the LEDs. I got one that clusters over a dozen LEDs inside the bulb. It gives off about as much light as your average blue canary nightlight. A pointless waste of money.
You need to get an LED with a lumen rating similar to the incandescent that it replaces. And yes, there are a lot of dim LED bulbs out there - essentially everything carried by Walmart, and much of what you'll find at Home Depot. We are just barely starting to see some true incandescent/compact fluorescent-equivalent LED bulbs on the market now and they cost a pretty penny but even at current prices they are a better investment than incandescent, provided their lifespan estimates are not overly optimistic.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The CFLs with candelabra bases take a long time to come fully on. And the vast majority of ceiling fan fixtures have candelabra bases. I walk into my office and turn on the light, and it takes more than a full minute for the room to be fully lit. That's insane. Incandescents are much better, and it's none of the governments damned business what kind of lightbulbs I choose to buy.
And I tried some of the LEDs. I got one that clusters over a dozen LEDs inside the bulb. It gives off about as much light as your average blue canary nightlight. A pointless waste of money.
The pigtail light bulbs I got in my house turn on instantly.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The CFLs with candelabra bases take a long time to come fully on. And the vast majority of ceiling fan fixtures have candelabra bases. I walk into my office and turn on the light, and it takes more than a full minute for the room to be fully lit. That's insane. Incandescents are much better, and it's none of the governments damned business what kind of lightbulbs I choose to buy.
And I tried some of the LEDs. I got one that clusters over a dozen LEDs inside the bulb. It gives off about as much light as your average blue canary nightlight. A pointless waste of money.
Then you're buying the wrong bulbs. It's been half a decade since I've bought a CFL that didn't come on instantly. The old ones used magnetic ballasts, which took longer to cycle, so they flickered, and took a minute to come on. But CFLs have been using electronic ballasts for years now, which cycle even faster than incandescents, and come on instantly.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but seriously, the bulbs you want are out there, you're just not buying the right ones.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
Lyrhawn, I buy good quality name-brand compact fluorescents, which are used in 90% of the fixtures in my house, and while they do come on right away, it does take them a little while to get to full brightness, especially those that aren't in climate-controlled areas. There's a clear warm-up period of 30 seconds to a minute.
In my garage where I've got the experimental LED, that one bulb is at full brightness immediately, creating a bright corner in the garage where its located. A little while later, when the other bulbs warm up, you can't tell the difference unless you are looking very carefully. (slight variation in color/projection pattern)
That said, I don't see CF warm-up as a major inconvenience.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :