quote:It all started when a passenger on a Ghana-bound United flight out of D.C.'s Dulles Airport decided to recline his seat. That pissed off the passenger behind him, leading to an exchange of heated words between the men, and the recliner being "smacked in the head." That's right: the very act you've fantasized about countless times before, but never dared actually do, because you are a civilized human being and not insane. But let's just for a moment say that you aren't. Have you ever wondered what might happen if you smacked your fellow passenger in the head after a massive jet takes off? Here's what happens:
First, a flight attendant and another passenger "jumped in between," the Washington Post reports. Alerted to the fracas, the pilot decided to spin the Boeing 767 back to Dulles to let the authorities sort things out, rather than risking the transatlantic flight to Ghana with two volatile and potentially violent passengers.
I am 6'5", I strategically place my knees to make it impossible for them to recline.
Last year we flew for the first time with our baby. Everything we read recommends that the baby seat be placed like it is in the car for the first year, reversed. This stopped the woman in front of her from reclining. She got very upset, but we politely refused to do anything about it. The flight attendant offered to change her seat, but she didn't want to.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
You have stated that you physically block the people in front of you from reclining. You did not say whether or not you ever recline your own seat.
Posted by DSH (Member # 741) on :
Airplane seats recline by design. If you don't like it, ask for a bulkhead seat.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
*shrug* Helps me sleep on transatlantic or transpacific flights. From the other side, if I need more room, I'd rather just recline ... or have the foresight to book an aisle seat or a seat without people in front if possible.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
While I refuse to fly I do prefer to recline while traveling, the other people in car insist that this effects my ability to drive.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: You have stated that you physically block the people in front of you from reclining. You did not say whether or not you ever recline your own seat.
I never recline.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by DSH: Airplane seats recline by design. If you don't like it, ask for a bulkhead seat.
Those are hard to get nowadays. It used to be that if I booked early enough, I could grab one. Now they are greyed out in the reservations process, and I believe saved for their elite travelers. I can't even seem to book an exit row.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: *shrug* Helps me sleep on transatlantic or transpacific flights. From the other side, if I need more room, I'd rather just recline ... or have the foresight to book an aisle seat or a seat without people in front if possible.
I seem to remember having more leg room on my flights to Israel and Ireland (non-US airlines), and it not bothering me, is that normal?
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: *shrug* Helps me sleep on transatlantic or transpacific flights. From the other side, if I need more room, I'd rather just recline ... or have the foresight to book an aisle seat or a seat without people in front if possible.
Me too. I also hate sitting in front of people who repeatedly kick my seat back.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I seem to remember having more leg room on my flights to Israel and Ireland (non-US airlines), and it not bothering me, is that normal?
Hmmm, it hasn't been a huge issue for me since I usually don't sleep on flights within North America. I also don't have experience with more than a couple American airlines.
I do have a personal hatred of United Airlines because they seem to welcome me with lengthy delays on their flights and no compensation.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I always keep my legs centered so that they are there the first time the person in front of me attempts to recline, after that I am usually safe from repeat attempts. As for myself I never recline all the way because I feel guilty for not allowing others the same courtesy.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Airlines tend to be designed so that even maximally reclined, it's not that bad. I recline. I don't mind if the person in front of me reclines. I only mind if they are continuously adjusting their recline-itude, since that changes the position of my laptop.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I'm 6'2" 275 with broad shoulders. If someone sits next to me, I spend the flight giving my self a hug so my shoulders don't spill into their seat.
On my way back from Hawaii to California (a rather long flight) three teenage Asians sat in the seats in front of me, they had the bulkhead. They were short, short enough that their legs didn't touch the ground, and with the bulkhead they had more room then they could use. They hand their chairs reclined the entire (very long) flight.
I would have said something, but the rage that built up as my knees were pinned to the seat before me and I held my limbs tight to my body to fit in the tiny seat made it impossible for me to do so in anything resembling a courteous manor.
Personally I think that while some blame should be put on people for not being aware/caring for strangers physical comfort, that the airlines themselves are much much more to blame trying to pack us in like sardines to maximize their money.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Well that is in turn the fault of people who are concerned with nothing else but getting the cheapest flights possible, myself included.
Posted by shadowland (Member # 12366) on :
I sometimes recline. It doesn't bother me if the passengers in front of me recline, and I don't automatically concern myself with how the other passengers feel when I use the features and functions that are available to me through the purchase of my ticket.
If I want to use the reading light, look out the window, or recline my seat, I'm not going to refrain from those things just because someone might be bothered by it. With that said, if someone were to voice an issue with something, I would certainly take that into account and try to be accommodating.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Personally I think that while some blame should be put on people for not being aware/caring for strangers physical comfort, that the airlines themselves are much much more to blame trying to pack us in like sardines to maximize their money.
If you object to being packed in economically, you almost always have the option of paying for first or business class.
Airlines pack us in like sardines because we'd rather be packed in cheaply than pay for the legroom.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
The last flight I was was from Minnesota to Vegas on the way back from a business trip. It was a very late, very full flight. I had just flew from Rochester to Minnesota and was already really tired. I got to my seat only to find that the middle seat was taken by a normal looking guy, not fat but not skinny either. I am a pretty big guy (6'2, about 290 pounds).
When I get to the seat he goes "Oh great" with a smile on his face. I had a good laugh. We sat there while the plane filled up and nobody took the seat next to us. We started to think this would be a pretty good flight.
The very last group of passengers get on and we see a huge guy get on. I leaned over and said "Pray... Pray hard."
Sure enough the guy walks over and says "Wow. Leave it to United to put the 3 biggest guys next to each other in the same row."
I never had a plane ride that was more fun than that one. The big guy sold some sort of legal marijuana stuff, and the guy in the middle owned a bar. We were laughing so hard the flight crew had to come over and tell us to be tone it down because we were loud and people wanted to sleep. I asked her to look at us and understand that we were just trying to make the best of a bad situation, but if she were willing to ask people to switch seats with us I wouldn't mind. She left us alone after that.
Somewhere in Minnesota there is a picture of the three of us hanging up in a bar. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I find it very uncomfortable to sit in one position for hours on end. This is particular problematic on long really overseas flights. I need the ability to recline my chair from time to time so I can shift my position a little.
It really bothers me when the person in the neighboring seat lifts the arm rest so they can spread out into my seat. I understand how difficult it must be for a big person to be crammed into one of those seats, but I paid for a whole seat don't want to be forced to share it with some stranger.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:If you object to being packed in economically, you almost always have the option of paying for first or business class.
Airlines pack us in like sardines because we'd rather be packed in cheaply than pay for the legroom.
You don't generally get the option of paying 10% more for 10% more leg room. Business class and First class are generally many times the price of coach.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
quote:You don't generally get the option of paying 10% more for 10% more leg room. Business class and First class are generally many times the price of coach.
A few airlines have rolled out slightly wider spaced upgraded economy class with a few perks, I believe.
And there used to be more room in economy, but prices were a lot higher and many fewer people flew. It is a rather narrow narrative to blame the airlines, when in addition to them liking the money, a lot of people liked flying cheaper. Heck, a lot still do -- people flying rarely choose airfare based on anything other than price, and maybe a small number of excluded airlines. That's true now, and was true back when not all the carriers had switched to the narrower seating rows.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
One option is to buy a second coach seat. Under some jurisdictions, the overweight already have to do this.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Having traveled cross-country in a Greyhound before (including kids vomiting on the bus floor, seats right by the bathroom or in the very back row of the "non-smoking" section, and fun layovers at 2 a.m. in nice, clean, comfortable Greyhound terminals), I'm still inclined to think of air travel as a luxury.
However, I admit the comfort level is not there anymore. Last time I flew was one of the most uncomfortable 4 hours of my life. Those rows simply aren't built for people over 6 feet tall. And someone reclining their seat in front of me does reduce the amount of legroom I have, no matter how cleverly they've designed the seats. I don't recline my own seat unless no one's behind me, simply because I know how irritating it is.
Flying on the company's dime, you don't often get to pick first class.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: You don't generally get the option of paying 10% more for 10% more leg room. Business class and First class are generally many times the price of coach. [/QB]
You shouldn't expect to. Since the seats are fixed in place, in order for me to have 10% extra legroom, everybody in my section has to have that extra legroom. If we're all paying an extra 10%, it means that anybody under 6'0" is paying money to subsidize my legroom.
Airlines have discovered that their customers, as a group (not individuals), care more about the cost of the flight than the comfort of the large passengers.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: A few airlines have rolled out slightly wider spaced upgraded economy class with a few perks, I believe.
Ticket sales reps will often make a point to point this option out to tall people.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I like that idea.
Unfortunately, it's not available yet (for any of the flights I take).
quote:And, as part of a multi-year conversion beginning in 2012, Economy Plus will be expanded to Continental aircraft. This is just one exciting step in our progress toward becoming the world’s leading airline.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I'm a fan of "economy plus" type seating for an additional fee, but I also think it's appropriate for larger planes doing longer hauls to allow additional per-seat legroom. For example, Air New Zealand's 747s have a lot more legroom in economy than any of the planes I fly on within North America, and I think that's appropriate since they're making 12+ hour flights.
Edit: I almost never recline fully. I usually recline partially, so that I don't impinge too much on the space of the person behind me. I'd be annoyed if someone forcibly prevented me from reclining at all, because I find it harder to sleep in a fully upright seat.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The evolution of these 'economy plus' style seating arrangements is, in my mind, a kind of a conclusion to a trend already in play: airlines have increased seating density to the extent that they no longer fit everyone, and you have to pay more for more space if you're bigger. Before it was just an issue for people who were flat-out obese, but now it's just about being large, or tall, in a not unusual way!
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I like that idea.
Unfortunately, it's not available yet (for any of the flights I take).
quote:And, as part of a multi-year conversion beginning in 2012, Economy Plus will be expanded to Continental aircraft. This is just one exciting step in our progress toward becoming the world’s leading airline.
So after converting all their planes to Compressed Seating, they're converting some of them back to what they were before and calling it Economy Plus. Brilliant marketing.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote: "We feel extremely confident that this concept will ... have great appeal to airlines for economic purposes," Dominique Menoud, the company's director general, told USA Today.
“For flights anywhere from one to possibly even up to three hours ... this would be comfortable seating.
“The seat ... is like a saddle. Cowboys ride eight hours on their horses during the day and still feel comfortable in the saddle."
I've always hoped riding an airplane would someday be like riding a horse.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
No, they're converting parts of some of them.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I recline when I fly first class (which is rare, for the record), or when there's no one behind me. Or, and I'll be totally honest here, I'll recline when I want to annoy the person behind me. It's not a fair thing to do, I know, but sometimes it just makes me feel better.
I usually don't mind when the person in front of me reclines, with one exception: when I've got my can of soda on my tray table, nicely balanced and spaced with my book or whatever I'm doing, and BAM, all of a sudden, the chair goes flying back and knocks the drink into my lap. That's annoying.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: No, they're converting parts of some of them.
That is what I meant. Sorry for the ambiguity.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I was just on a 7.5 hour flight back to the US. Since I'm 5'1" I tend to have more space proportionate to my fellow passengers. I never recline because I don't want to inconvenience the person behind me. This flight, the person in front reclined their seat. It made my laptop perch a bit awkwardly but I got over the brief irritation.
My bf and I were split across the aisle unfortunately. It gave us some good joke fodder, "Honey, when times are tough we have to reach across the aisle." "One day I'll carry you down the aisle." It was entertaining to steal food from his tray from across the aisle.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote: "We feel extremely confident that this concept will ... have great appeal to airlines for economic purposes," Dominique Menoud, the company's director general, told USA Today.
“For flights anywhere from one to possibly even up to three hours ... this would be comfortable seating.
“The seat ... is like a saddle. Cowboys ride eight hours on their horses during the day and still feel comfortable in the saddle."
I've always hoped riding an airplane would someday be like riding a horse.
One of the comments under that article:
Finally, a suggestion. Why not dispense with these semi-vertical seats and just put the passengers in a completely vertical position by suspending them from nooses. Besides increased passenger capacity, an added advantage would be that after a couple of seconds all discomfort would cease to be an issue. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't recline, and I install my under-2-year-old children's seats rear-facing. Not all airplane seats recline anyway; the ones in front of the emergency exit rows can't. If I did recline my seat and the person behind me politely asked me to put it back up, I would. If the person in front of me reclined and I was too uncomfortable, I'd call an attendant and ask if I could change seats.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I heard over the weekend that seats on Spirit Airlines don't recline. Anyone flown them before?
Posted by krynn (Member # 524) on :
I almost always recline. I expect the person in front of me to always recline. It's a feature built into every seat for passengers to feel more comfortable. I take advantage.
The times I don't recline are the 30-45 minutes I might be using my laptop.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
It seems those over about six feet find it very uncomfortable when the person in front of them recline and for the most part don't do it themselves out of courtesy. Those who are shorter don't see what the big deal with it is and often recline. I base that on this thread and RL interactions. I certainly fall into that convention, at 6'2"-6'3" people reclining in front of me on planes or buses typically result in losing circulation in my knees or at the very least a great deal of discomfort. I do the 'locked-knees' thing figuring if all I have to do is not move it's hardly malicious though that may be rationalization. I don't recline myself out of courtesy but I haven't been on a flight that went over the Atlantic or Pacific since I was 6 years old so I can't speak to that.
Hobbes Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'm 5'5", and find it uncomfortable when people recline quite often. Also, I do not hesitate to install a child seat that fits rear-facing rear-facing. I try to position the rear-facing child behind one of my other children, who also won't be reclining, but sometimes that's not possible. And I don't really feel bad if that prevents someone from reclining-- they can ask to switch seats, but I'm not going to compromise my child's safety for the comfort of an adult.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I almost always recline, and the person in front of me almost always reclines. When the person in front reclines, me reclining is an absolute necessity. When they don't, it's an unexpected bonus.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm with porter in this entire thread. If you don't like it, you have options. Don't fly, buy a second coach seat, pay a premium for extra legroom, or upgrade to a business or first class seat.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
It just seems impolite to do knowing that you are inconveniencing a stranger who has done nothing to you, and in the case of taller people legitimately physically hampering them.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote: "We feel extremely confident that this concept will ... have great appeal to airlines for economic purposes," Dominique Menoud, the company's director general, told USA Today.
“For flights anywhere from one to possibly even up to three hours ... this would be comfortable seating.
“The seat ... is like a saddle. Cowboys ride eight hours on their horses during the day and still feel comfortable in the saddle."
I've always hoped riding an airplane would someday be like riding a horse.
Looks like a ticket to achy balls and, for frequent flyers, prostatitis.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: It just seems impolite to do knowing that you are inconveniencing a stranger who has done nothing to you, and in the case of taller people legitimately physically hampering them.
Even if you don't recline, you're inconveniencing me just by sitting in front of me. I had a bus ride just last week. Even with me reclining and the person in front of me not reclining, my knees were jammed into the seat in front of me. Every time the person in front of me shifted position, it would jam my knees and hurt.
But it wasn't his fault. Riding a bus or a plane simply sucks when you're as tall as I am. And it wouldn't have been any more his fault if he had chosen to recline.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Destineer, Im happy you said it because I wasnt going to.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
How tall are you m_p_h?
I'm pretty tall at 6'2" and it takes work to fit into some seats, but you must be one tall drink of water.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
No. I'm not much taller than you.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'm the same way, tall and with rather long legs (this is an important factor). Adding to that, my shoulder width is larger than the width of a coach seat, so basically I spend the hours of a flight in agony over having literally no direction in which I can turn to make myself even slightly more comfortable.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Combine this conversation, the fact that I too am over six foot and my fear of flying... I am never setting foot on a plane.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Depending on what you want to do, that might never be a problem.
That has not been an option for me and my life choices.
I wouldn't say that I have a fear of flying, but each time I fly, I look at how huge the airplane is, and part of me is utterly unable to believe that it will ever get off the ground.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I love flying, especially the takeoff. Landing is fun just for getting to watch the landscape get bigger and the city and cars resolve from dots to life-size.
I get pretty good vertigo in a tall building or even on a 4th-floor balcony, but not in a plane. During flights I've considered whether I should be feeling claustrophobic and/or panicked that I'm in a small tube surrounded by thin air and helpless should the pilots lose control--but that's never gone past the intellectual for me.
Interestingly, I believe I would feel completely different in a submarine. And if I never find myself deep underground in a small cave shaft or a mine, I will be all the happier for it. I'm not sure how I would be in a small spacecraft, but I would sure like the chance to find out.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
When I was getting a graduate engineering degree, I kept getting letters from the Navy about working on a nuclear submarine. If they had ever met me in person and saw how tall I am, I don't think they would have thought it was that great of an idea.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
I'm only about 5'6 and I still don't like it when people recline in front of me. It seriously hampers my ability to balance things on the tray table. I've never been gutsy enough to ask them to sit up though, but I do figure that if they end up being continuously kicked as I reposition during the flight that it's their own darn fault.
Personally, the only time I recline my seat is when I know there isn't anyone behind me. I feel like a wretch doing it any other time, since if I don't like it, the person behind me probably doesn't like it either. It's sort of one of those "golden rule" type things for me.
I'm also kind of a larger person. While I do fit within one airline seat, I often have to do the "self hug" if I'm sitting next to another normal sized person too. If I'm flying southwest I'll actually book the extra ticket and get the refund just to avoid that.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Just remember DDD, if you recite the name Kevin Smith three times on a southwest flight they will not ask you to get off the plane.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by DDDaysh: I'm only about 5'6 and I still don't like it when people recline in front of me.
Ooof. I have very little sympathy for you . Just imagine having the seat in front of you moved seven inches closer, and your seat decreased in size by 40%, and you'll get an idea of how the outliers among us feel on every flight. It's worse now than ever, too.
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![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. Just imagine having the seat in front of you moved seven inches closer, and your seat decreased in size by 40%, and you'll get an idea of how the outliers among us feel on every flight. It's worse now than ever, too.