Anyone watch Terra Nova on Monday? I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. It had shades of LOST, but they kept it mysterious without making it non-sensical, which I appreciated. That's where LOST lost me. I think the cast is absolutely fantastic. I've seen all of the adult leads on other things before and I love pretty much every single one of them as individual actors, and I think they play well off each other.
In particular, I mean Jason O'Mara is just an excellent actor. I think part of that is just him playing himself, because he's a charismatic guy. Stephen Lang I've loved ever since he was Pickett in Gettysburg, and in particular I loved it when he yelled "Damnation!" in frustration. I'm a little iffy on the kids, in part because their story line is totally uninteresting to me at the moment (but I expect improvement!), and I think the older daughter as a smarty pants is being overacted or overwritten to the point of cliche. She's basically Elroy.
What do I love about the plot? They got all the science more or less out of the way early. I mean, going back in time on Earth? There are simply too many variables to make it a believable scenario for there to be no repercussions in the future. I think they showed that they tried to make it work, and frankly I think the attention to detail is fairly impressive. They dealt with biology, atmospheric climate science, paleontology, theoretical physics, a little bit of everything, and it might not be 100% true or what not, but it's enough to be believable.
I liked the touch of the dystopian future. I like that Terra Nova is basically a frontier town. In that sense it kind of has some hints of Firefly in it. Frontier town, rebels against a government, government secrets, some of that, but not quite the same feel obviously. They got the mystery out fast. Who are the Sixers, why are they there? Where is Taylor's son and what key does he hold to the mystery?
I also liked that while there is plenty of plot, plenty of interesting things to play with, but they didn't at all ignore the characters. It's so easy with a show like this to be plot heavy and ignore the characters, but I didn't get that at all. I actually felt quite touched at several points by the family moments. And I like Taylor. I kept waiting for him to be this evil tyrannical guy who tries to coopt Jim, and maybe that IS what happened, but he also has a likeable quality. I BELIEVE that he really does have the best interests of the colony at heart, though he obviously has secrets and ulterior motives, but they might end up being fair benign in the grand scheme of good and evil, considering his son is involved in one of them.
I was expecting a crap fest of plot intrigue and stupid mysteries or too much gimmicky crap with no substance, but I think they actually did a great job with it and I'm interested to see where it goes.
Some of the questions raised by the characters might point out some plot problems. I mean, why did they break the population laws? Why did Jim attack the officer? But I don't think those are too contrived. A couples' desire to have more children can be a powerful urge, I mean look at Ender's Game. It's a serious crime, especially in that future, but I felt like "it seemed like a good idea at the time" was a pretty lame reason, even if it was a flippant answer. I'd like to see more done with that. As for why he attacked the officer, he was protecting his daughter. I saw it as a gut instinct, just like later when the knife was poised to run her through and they dove for her. I KNEW she was going to be fine, but, it was still tense.
Anyway, good start. Anyone else watching?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Cross posting a rant on another forum, overall I was a bit disappointed, but I'll watch another two episodes or so because often pilots are just a bit clunky when compared to what episodes will be when they don't have to introduce so much.
WARNING MASSIVE SPOILERS, LIKE THE ENTIRE EPISODE IS PRETTY MUCH TALKED ABOUT.
"I don't know if I can go in without dad!" "Gah! I hate you for leaving us two years dad, I'm nothing like you!"
Oh I see, you subscribe to the school of family first, but simultaneously imprisoned by the me first mentality of adolescence.
"You can have your man, you can have the meds, but no ammo, no way." "Can't blame a girl for trying."
Well, yes I can. What school of bargaining did you go to? "Could I get a few more fries with my combo meal, maybe a sweet and sour sauce packet, and an extra burger for free?"
Also the discussion by the sixes about the markings on the falls. Why are they even talking about them, they clearly established that both of them know why they are there and who is writing them? Do people generally talk about things they both know about extensively? It drives me nuts when the writers want to inform the audience about things, but try to accomplish that by forcing dialogue.
Oh no, a giant meat eating dinosaur is heading for our camp, here you take the wheel, and I'll assume you know what the hell I want you to do. Oh no, it wouldn't work if we shouted and yelled and fired our guns from within the vehicle, I need to get out, draw it's attention, and then you just read my mind and swoop in at the last moment, but don't drive away until I give you permission, and *then* we can drive into the camp.
"Don't leave! Zoe is scared. Right Zoe?" *Zoe smiles adorably clearly not scared* *Stupid hunk guy is oblivious to how bad the lie was said*
Here honey, here's a gas mask, with a cutting laser hidden inside, I didn't have to tell you in any secret way to look for it, and counter-intuitively the prison security doesn't check these things for that sort of contraband. BTW just laugh when the leader of Terra Nova praises the integrity of that very prison's security protocols.
Having a third child is most likely a fining offense, OH! so *now* I understand just why dad decided to assault three other police officers. Dad is simultaneously protective of his family, and reckless. It also coincidentally gives the son something to be rightly pissed about.
How in the heck do the folks at Terra Nova communicate with the people on the other side? It's a one way portal and communication is not possible? How would they know the people they are sending through the portal are not all dying instantly on the other side because in this parallel dimension there is too little oxygen?
Hey check it out, we've been making moonshine here regularly, so we've been sneaking out to this location at least for several days, if not weeks/months, and not ONCE were we threatened or attacked by the very dinosaurs who are going to attack us now that a central character to the show has arrived. Not only that, the security forces who noticed a vehicle was missing mere hours later, never ever caught us before. Also, I like to jump into random holes with water at the bottom with all of my clothes on. I don't worry about chaffing, my clothes are like Marty McFly's and self dry.
edit: And supposedly we let our teenagers live together because they mature and grow up faster in this environment. But during this episode you will see no indicator that they are in fact more mature than their teenage earth counterparts. (This was a lost opportunity, it would extremely cool to have teenagers who are a bit more mature than they normally would be because of the circumstances they live in)
Bullets are about as effective against dinosaurs as a garden hose is against a house on fire. But hey, we'll keep using guns. Also we have an amazing sonic gun that scares big dinosaurs away, but doesn't hurt our own ears!
Oh hey honey, we haven't seen each other in two years, and we clearly love each other, but since little Zoe fell asleep on your bed, and she's gotten used to it, even though this is an entirely new bed, you better go sleep on the couch. There's no way we could move Zoe to her new bed, and have sex like two lovers who haven't seen each other in two years.
Hey, don't send my husband anywhere dangerous because I'm the one who has to worry about him back at home. Hey, I have an idea, how about I go with you on these dangerous missions! Then if we both die, our kids don't have any parents. I can simultaneously be a heroic female characters and a mother who takes care of my children, sorta.
/rant
------------
So yeah, I still like the concept, and I do like parallel dimension vs time travel to the past, but I really hope things tighten up a bit dialogue/plot wise.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Wow, BB . . . critical much?
Criticisms: - There are a lot of people involved in this show. And a lot of ideas. Because of this (and the sheer volume of plot that they wanted to introduce), the plot had some unnatural turns that were apparent. Motivations for having a third child, the entire prison subplot, the son's anger -- these all felt forced. Coupled with some (slightly) weak writing, they seemed forced and made suspension of disbelief a little hard. - A lot of people were confused about the "sleeping on the couch" thing. This was easy. The wife also had problems holding his hand and kissing. Pretty much inferred that they had been apart so long, intimacy would take awhile to re-develop. Perhaps the wife is also feeling guilty about something, has some secrets? - Speaking about my last comment, so many things were spelled out that it was easy to miss some of the subtlety. Why were they spelled out? As a lot of critics point out, Spielberg is going for a family audience. He wants the Lost-y parents, he wants the teens, tweens, and the little kids. My eight year old said that it was his "favorite adult show, other than Mythbusters". - I think a few parts, such as "Can't blame a girl for trying", were attempts at levity. Yeah, kind of fell flat.
Positives: - The future scenes were first rate. As were some of the "past" special effects (holoscreens, sound guns, etc). The dinosaurs -- while not always the best graphics -- were well animated (motion). - The plot is engaging. So is the acting. The interactions between the youngest girl and the dad were endearing. - There is enough material to keep a good plot going. It may not be as revolutionary as everyone thought, but it might still be engaging.
Overall, it's a good venture out the gates. It's pretty much all in the writers' hands now. Let's hope having 12 producers doesn't stifle creativity too much. Falling Skies would be a good example of a great idea killed by poor plotting and writing. But hey, the cast is better here (for sure) than that travesty.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I was being a bit rough, and verbose. But I wanted to like the show more than I am able to by what was presented. Also, it was kind of amusing for me to write that rant.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I do agree with BB on the weakness of the script. I thought it was really strange that the son didn't want to go without the father then all of the sudden acted like he didn't want anything to do with him.
I think there is a lot of potential for this series, I just hope that it doesn't get stale. They need to introduce more of a mystery than just the sixers or it is going to get lame very quickly. They did a little of that with the writing on the rocks, but they need more.
I'm thinking reptars, a time traveling red headed boy with a rainbow sword, and an alien life form that crashes into the planet and starts to suck the planets resources until it is ready to destroy the world. (10 points if you get the reference)
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
I agree that the script was weak. The dialogue was so corny and half of the events in the show were predictable. I think this guy nails it. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Based on the descriptions provided, take heart, it could just be those general startup difficulties.
Yet that gives the show a timeframe; if they have enough time to get into the 'swing of things,' and it's still not good, then don't expect it to get any better. Ever. It probably won't.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Based on the descriptions provided, take heart, it could just be those general startup difficulties.
Yet that gives the show a timeframe; if they have enough time to get into the 'swing of things,' and it's still not good, then don't expect it to get any better. Ever. It probably won't.
True, and they don't have the luxury some other shows have had with a 22 episode season. I believe the first season of Terra Nova is only 10 episodes. If Fringe only had a 10 episode season when it first started airing, it would have never been renewed. The first half of season 1 wasn't very exciting, but now is one of the best shows on television.
Even Falling Skies is in a better position right now, as they are on TNT. TNT doesn't expect the show to get 8-10 million viewers each week. They would likely renew the show with 3-4 million. Fox has a history of cancelling shows with 3-4 million (or more!) viewers, especially sci-fi shows.
Is it just me or does Fox carry most of the sci-fi shows? Dollhouse, Firefly, Terminator, X-Files, Fringe, etc. It kind of makes me wish some of the other networks would pick some up.
CBS had Threshhold a few years ago, but it was cancelled after only a few episodes. It made me so angry I swore I wouldn't watch another CBS show. Any show that has both Brent Spiner and Peter Dinklage is awesome in my book.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Blackblade -
quote:"I don't know if I can go in without dad!" "Gah! I hate you for leaving us two years dad, I'm nothing like you!"
Oh I see, you subscribe to the school of family first, but simultaneously imprisoned by the me first mentality of adolescence.
Honestly it rang perfectly true to me, but it IS annoying. The whole "Dad I hate you!" "Dad protect me!" thing isn't unbelievable at all. It's normal. But it IS annoying. If there had been no kids in the first episode I might have been happier. I'd like less teen angst.
quote:"You can have your man, you can have the meds, but no ammo, no way." "Can't blame a girl for trying."
Well, yes I can. What school of bargaining did you go to? "Could I get a few more fries with my combo meal, maybe a sweet and sour sauce packet, and an extra burger for free?"
That "bargaining" suggested a lot of familiarity between the two leaders, and surprisingly, a sort of lack of animosity. I like that there wasn't any quibbling, wasn't any "but we can't deal with terrorists!" crap. Isn't that what you do with bargaining exactly? You ask for what you want, not what you expect. It was far more casual than I would have thought given the state between them, which I took to be hostile, but now it appears to be just sort of vaguely rancorous. Makes it less black and white, which I find interesting.
quote:Also the discussion by the sixes about the markings on the falls. Why are they even talking about them, they clearly established that both of them know why they are there and who is writing them? Do people generally talk about things they both know about extensively? It drives me nuts when the writers want to inform the audience about things, but try to accomplish that by forcing dialogue.
In general, yes, this would bother me. But when you only have an hour or whatever, getting crucial plot points out the slow way isn't very efficient. If this becomes an aspect of the show, I'll be turned off by it, but they wanted to set the stage for pretty much everything all in the first episode. What would have been a more natural way of talking about it that wouldn't have taken ten times as long and felt just as contrived?
quote:Oh no, a giant meat eating dinosaur is heading for our camp, here you take the wheel, and I'll assume you know what the hell I want you to do. Oh no, it wouldn't work if we shouted and yelled and fired our guns from within the vehicle, I need to get out, draw it's attention, and then you just read my mind and swoop in at the last moment, but don't drive away until I give you permission, and *then* we can drive into the camp.
Yeah I actually would have preferred them yelling at each other. The fact that it worked so well was I guess supposed to demonstrate how well they work together, but, I too would like to see a little more of that. Seems a little Whedon-like.
quote:"Don't leave! Zoe is scared. Right Zoe?" *Zoe smiles adorably clearly not scared* *Stupid hunk guy is oblivious to how bad the lie was said*
I don't think he missed it at ALL. I mean, he stopped by the house didn't it? Obviously he's interested, and he seems smart enough to know she is too.
quote:Here honey, here's a gas mask, with a cutting laser hidden inside, I didn't have to tell you in any secret way to look for it, and counter-intuitively the prison security doesn't check these things for that sort of contraband. BTW just laugh when the leader of Terra Nova praises the integrity of that very prison's security protocols.
Considering she bribed her way in, and from the subsequent huge piles of cash she gave him to bribe the OTHER guy, I think we can assume that generally it is a pretty tough prison unless you're loaded...however, that does raise the question of where she got the money. They made a point later of saying that their family COULD have chosen a life of luxury but specifically did not. Does she simply have rich and powerful friends? Did she borrow it like Steve Buscemi in Armageddon? That's a plot hole. The fact that everyone was accepting bribes in a dystopian future? Not a plot hole at all.
quote:How in the heck do the folks at Terra Nova communicate with the people on the other side? It's a one way portal and communication is not possible? How would they know the people they are sending through the portal are not all dying instantly on the other side because in this parallel dimension there is too little oxygen?
You don't watch Stargate, do you?
quote:edit: And supposedly we let our teenagers live together because they mature and grow up faster in this environment. But during this episode you will see no indicator that they are in fact more mature than their teenage earth counterparts. (This was a lost opportunity, it would extremely cool to have teenagers who are a bit more mature than they normally would be because of the circumstances they live in)
Well, that remains to be seen. You don't think they were ANY more mature then regular teenagers? I mean keep in mind, teenagers are reckless as a biological fact. It's in their brain chemistry. They can't control it. They evaluate risk and reward differently than adults do. However, for all their youthful impetuousness, they seemed more mature to me.
quote:Oh hey honey, we haven't seen each other in two years, and we clearly love each other, but since little Zoe fell asleep on your bed, and she's gotten used to it, even though this is an entirely new bed, you better go sleep on the couch. There's no way we could move Zoe to her new bed, and have sex like two lovers who haven't seen each other in two years.
Yeah, exactly, they haven't seen each other in two years...what do you think she was doing all that time? Possibly she was quietly pining for him, or possibly not the whole time. I'm sure that will be a later plot point.
.....
Don't get me wrong, there was plenty that I raised an eyebrow at in the show. And I know that the plot fairy sprinkled a heavy dose of pixie dust all over that first episode, but I also think they just wanted to get all that crap out of the way so they wouldn't have to keep dealing with it. They wanted to get on with it. If that becomes a hallmark of the show, then meh. If it was a one-time thing to set the stage (since they could have spent an entire season on all the material they covered in those two hours), then I'll let it go. Sometimes people complain and say "slow down! Tell the story more slowly," but they don't realize that the stuff being rushed through isn't the story they really want to tell.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Blackblade -
quote:Considering she bribed her way in, and from the subsequent huge piles of cash she gave him to bribe the OTHER guy, I think we can assume that generally it is a pretty tough prison unless you're loaded...however, that does raise the question of where she got the money. They made a point later of saying that their family COULD have chosen a life of luxury but specifically did not. Does she simply have rich and powerful friends? Did she borrow it like Steve Buscemi in Armageddon? That's a plot hole. The fact that everyone was accepting bribes in a dystopian future? Not a plot hole at all.
Got me thinking. Maybe they DIDN'T live the good life because they were "laying low" in a cheaper place, trying to hide the third child. They'd be saving money to ensure that they could get around the law. Ultimately, that stockpile was used to help break the Dad out.
If that IS the case, and they show it in subsequent episodes, I'd be a lot happier about the plot in general. Because the house, the third child, and the escape are all the biggest implausibilities. That would wrap them all up nicely.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, and I guess the wife didn't say she ALWAYS worked in the slums, just that she chose to work there for a time while forsaking the big bucks of her cohort.
But then, if all having a third kid meant was paying a fine, why not take the better job and just be out about it? Social stigma? What actually happens to the third kid? The government clearly had no problem with Zoe basically living on the street or dying when the family was asked to leave her behind, so how much consideration is she given?
There are a few unanswered questions (like why they REALLY had a third kid, and if in the end the answer is going to be "because we're Catholic" or something similar), but part of me fears that now that they're in the past, those answers will never come. Maybe that will end up being a good reason why the son keeps bringing crap up, so they can actually answer some of them.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Lyrhawn: I'm pretty sure Zoe was being kept in some sort of facility for extra children.
They pretty much imply they can get messages back in a fairly routine fashion when someone asks if the people back home know about the splinter colony yet. Now, it may be that they've faked the "can't affect the future" thing, and that the only actual way to return messages is to bury them somehow, and the portal really is completely one way. Then they just fake "sending messages back through the portal". I sort of bet on that, actually, though there are all sorts of causality wrinkles (which can be helped by using a series of OTPs).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
fugu - On what do you base that? The son seemed to to think that all you needed to do was pay a fine, and the wife suggested that they currently had Zoe and would have to give her up if they left. Frankly the facility thing explains the plot a lot better, but I've seen no indication of it. The wife also says that Zoe got used to sleeping on the bed with her, which suggests she's always been in the house after the dad left.
They come right out and say they can get messages back, and I find it impossible to believe that they can't. First of all, how can they bury messages in the ground when they've already established they are in a different time stream? Unless that too is a lie (which wouldn't surprise me). Otherwise, why would the government be spending gazillions of dollars, sending their best and brightest through a hole into oblivion in somewhat small numbers without any proof at all that the people going through weren't just being vaporized? If the people being sent through were all poor I'd get it, it'd be a way to get rid of extra people while pretending they were going to a better place. But they actively recruit scientists and doctors, and spent a ton of resources. They have to be in contact. Also, how else would Taylor have gotten his prison record? Just happened to have it already?
I really wouldn't be surprised if the "it's a different time stream!" thing was faked, but it would seem like the consequences would be pretty dire if they messed that one up.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I'd have to rewatch to be sure, but I didn't see the same things you did re: Zoe. Granted I was doing some other things, but I immediately thought she was being held elsewhere. I mean, if they're just going to leave thirds with their parents, why have a thuggish group of police to take them away in the first place? Just have a social worker make a note and add it to the tax bill.
It's also possible that in the beginning she was in something like residency, where salaries are shit, but two years later she'd finished residency and had in demand skills. That can quadruple or quintuple a salary nowadays, and it would only exacerbate in a society like that.
quote:They come right out and say they can get messages back, and I find it impossible to believe that they can't. First of all, how can they bury messages in the ground when they've already established they are in a different time stream? Unless that too is a lie (which wouldn't surprise me). Otherwise, why would the government be spending gazillions of dollars, sending their best and brightest through a hole into oblivion in somewhat small numbers without any proof at all that the people going through weren't just being vaporized? If the people being sent through were all poor I'd get it, it'd be a way to get rid of extra people while pretending they were going to a better place. But they actively recruit scientists and doctors, and spent a ton of resources. They have to be in contact. Also, how else would Taylor have gotten his prison record? Just happened to have it already?
As I said, given the teaser at the end, I'm almost certain the separate timestream thing is a lie (or at least, highly deceptive). And burying messages is effectively instantaneous communication: record your message using the most recent OTP from a transit, someone reads it in the future at the right time, then sends back a reply directly after you "sent" it.
Though Taylor could easily have had the prison record, since presumably he gets nearly full records on everyone arriving, and an imprisoned husband is a pretty noteworthy item.
quote:I really wouldn't be surprised if the "it's a different time stream!" thing was faked, but it would seem like the consequences would be pretty dire if they messed that one up.
The splinter colony sure seems to think the 'real' purpose is a big deal.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I don't see this show lasting more than a season or two and here's why....
1. Money. The show is very expensive considering they have to use so much CG. In order to make it profitable, they'll have to get in some viewers, and quickly. They're less likely to stick around for long if they can't get a large amount of viewers.
2. It's Fox. Seriously, Fox is notorious for killing shows off before they've had a chance to blossom or develop. Remember Firefly? And that show had GREAT acting and writing.
3. The writing. It's terrible. I won't go into it here because it's already been said, but yes, it's awful.
4. Teenagers. Seriously, the one major flaw in this show is that it has such annoying characters, and half of them are kids. Nobody likes kids in shows. Nobody. There was a reason Lost only had 1 of them (and he only lasted for a few seasons). This show has like twelve of them, three of which are in the family.
5. It focuses on a family. Unlike Lost or pretty much any other successful show out there, this one has a main character who is married, which completely negates the possibility of a love interest. Oh, sure, you can say he's got his wife, but who cares about married love? I'm not trying to be mean about it, just realistic. The general audience wants to have the question of "will they/won't they?" rattling around somewhere, but this show doesn't have it. Oh wait, I forgot, the annoying unrelatable teenage son has a love interest (sort of). But since he is such a horrible character, I seriously doubt anyone will care.
On the other hand, it has that dude from Avatar, and he's pretty awesome. It also has a weird mystery involving some rocks and advanced physics, so that's cool. There's also the likable main character who looks like a carbon copy of Jack from Lost (scruffy lack of shaving and all). Oh, and yes, dinosaurs. But are these things enough? I'm not so sure.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I'd have to rewatch to be sure, but I didn't see the same things you did re: Zoe. Granted I was doing some other things, but I immediately thought she was being held elsewhere. I mean, if they're just going to leave thirds with their parents, why have a thuggish group of police to take them away in the first place? Just have a social worker make a note and add it to the tax bill.
Yes, that struck me as very odd, hence my confusion over the apparent seriousness of needing a goon squad to rip apartments apart looking for kids (which I took to be more about intimidation than actually searching, since toddlers generally don't hide in mixing bowls and in utensil drawers), mixed with the other facts that suggested it either wasn't that big a deal or that Zoe had been allowed to stay with them. The son also said that the dad "took the fall," which also doesn't make sense if all you do is pay a fine. Was him going to jail the price they paid to keep the kid?
I dunno, the whole thing is a big plot hole, but I saw nothing to suggest she was taken away.
As for burying messages, yeah, I guess so, but, on the other hand, wouldn't they have like millions of messages available to them? If they're burying messages, then yes, it would effectively be instantaneous, but it would also mean that they have access to EVERY message that would ever be sent. I can't imagine they wouldn't just go read them all, and then bring them up again whenever a new question or what not goes out or comes in to make that message relevant. Taylor, on the other hand, said he hadn't told anyone in command "yet." Either he's lying to keep up the deception, or he's telling the truth and communication is far more immediate.
Otherwise, people in the future already know everything that will happen with the entire expedition for years go come, including the outcome of the Sixers battle with Terra Nova.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: I don't see this show lasting more than a season or two and here's why....
1. Money. The show is very expensive considering they have to use so much CG. In order to make it profitable, they'll have to get in some viewers, and quickly. They're less likely to stick around for long if they can't get a large amount of viewers.
2. It's Fox. Seriously, Fox is notorious for killing shows off before they've had a chance to blossom or develop. Remember Firefly? And that show had GREAT acting and writing.
3. The writing. It's terrible. I won't go into it here because it's already been said, but yes, it's awful.
4. Teenagers. Seriously, the one major flaw in this show is that it has such annoying characters, and half of them are kids. Nobody likes kids in shows. Nobody. There was a reason Lost only had 1 of them (and he only lasted for a few seasons). This show has like twelve of them, three of which are in the family.
5. It focuses on a family. Unlike Lost or pretty much any other successful show out there, this one has a main character who is married, which completely negates the possibility of a love interest. Oh, sure, you can say he's got his wife, but who cares about married love? I'm not trying to be mean about it, just realistic. The general audience wants to have the question of "will they/won't they?" rattling around somewhere, but this show doesn't have it. Oh wait, I forgot, the annoying unrelatable teenage son has a love interest (sort of). But since he is such a horrible character, I seriously doubt anyone will care.
On the other hand, it has that dude from Avatar, and he's pretty awesome. It also has a weird mystery involving some rocks and advanced physics, so that's cool. There's also the likable main character who looks like a carbon copy of Jack from Lost (scruffy lack of shaving and all). Oh, and yes, dinosaurs. But are these things enough? I'm not so sure.
Ugh. I'm sad that Stephen Lang is referred to as "that guy from Avatar." Come on! He's totally "that guy from Gettysburg!" I was actually quite tickled when he said "Damnation!" in the first episode. Lang will always be General Pickett to me.
And Jason O'Mara isn't a Jack clone. You must never have seen Life on Mars.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
quote:As for burying messages, yeah, I guess so, but, on the other hand, wouldn't they have like millions of messages available to them? If they're burying messages, then yes, it would effectively be instantaneous, but it would also mean that they have access to EVERY message that would ever be sent. I can't imagine they wouldn't just go read them all, and then bring them up again whenever a new question or what not goes out or comes in to make that message relevant. Taylor, on the other hand, said he hadn't told anyone in command "yet." Either he's lying to keep up the deception, or he's telling the truth and communication is far more immediate.
They can reduce the number of messages available at one time by using one time pads that are created in the future and sent back, as I said before. Then messages would only become available at the instant of the latest gate activation, which is probably at least manageable (given the mere existence of the colony generates all sorts of causality mushiness anyways).
There are other possibilities, like maybe it is a different timestream but for some reason they think they can "merge" it with the original somehow.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I suppose. But again, I don't think I'd find that any more plausible. If they invented the time pads, couldn't they just hot wire them and read what's inside?
I'm looking forward to seeing how they answer these questions, but I'm really leery of the answer.
If they can use Taylor's son to build another timestream gate on the other side, they could have two way travel, and then it would sort of be like a combination of Sliders and Stargate. But I think we're supposed to believe that Taylor's son is writing mathematical equations that make it impossible for us to believe that it could be a different time stream.
If it was me, I'd send them back in time with a mission of getting a space program up and running within a one or two hundred years, then start regular flights to Mars. That way they can get off the surface and to Mars during a time when it was probably much easier to colonize and terraform than it is today, and Smokey the Bear won't chastise them as much for what they're doing. An asteroid is going to wipe out whatever they build in about 10 million years anyway, so what does it matter?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
No, no, one time pads. One time pads are unbreakable encryption (because any decoding of the same length is valid, meaning only having the key will let you decode a message accurately). So long as the future only sends back one time pads that they've generated just before opening the gate (which they'd presumably do to reduce causality problems), there'd be absolutely no way to read the message until those one time pads were generated.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Huh.
Brannon Braga (Star Trek: TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, Flashforward) is the show-runner and there's another Star Trek writer as an executive producer.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You mean they keep sending new shipments of pads every time they open the gate so they can only open whatever is sent shortly afterward. I guess that makes sense.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Exactly. In fact, since the only interaction is people being sent through the gate, so long as they generate the OTPs directly upon opening the gate (then immediately send them through), and don't read anything until the people are all sent through (a fairly small amount of discipline that could even be enforced by some sort of time lock mechanism on their end), they can keep the causality issues really low.
Posted by ScottF (Member # 9356) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Ugh. I'm sad that Stephen Lang is referred to as "that guy from Avatar." Come on! He's totally "that guy from Gettysburg!" I was actually quite tickled when he said "Damnation!" in the first episode. Lang will always be General Pickett to me. [/QB]
To me he'll always be Ike Clanton from Tombstone. "Yeah, that's good, Mr. Law Dog, 'cause law don't go around here."
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ohhhh is that really him? I need to check that out.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Now Sam Elliott, I have trouble deciding if my "memory" role for him is as General Buford or Virgil Earp.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I never saw either of those shows, Lyrhawn.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
THE SHOW IS ON FOX!? WTF!?
Its a good show, so I KNOW its going to get cancelled.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Now Sam Elliott, I have trouble deciding if my "memory" role for him is as General Buford or Virgil Earp.
What about The Cowboy???
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Anyways I'm cautiously optimistic, it got 9 million viewers and seems to pretty much effortlessly fill my need for my SGU niche to be filled.
It could be possible they can send MESSAGES back to the future but simply lack the facility/power to send people back through. Quantum Entanglement and all that.
Avatar dude is awesome.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: An asteroid is going to wipe out whatever they build in about 10 million years anyway, so what does it matter?
I think 10 million years of development is sufficient enough to set up the sorts of things necessary to deflect an asteroid 0.0001% off its known trajectory.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: An asteroid is going to wipe out whatever they build in about 10 million years anyway, so what does it matter?
I think 10 million years of development is sufficient enough to set up the sorts of things necessary to deflect an asteroid 0.0001% off its known trajectory.
"If" its an alternate timeline, why would there still be that asteroid?
Below is some info from a paleotologist remarking on the show
Synopsis (superbrief): Colonists from a dystopian mid-22nd Century populated entirely by early 21st century suburban Americans facing environmental catastrophes flee via a rift in time to the early Santonian (85 Ma), where they have to deal with dinosaurs, intra-colony rivalries, and Steven Speilberg.
My Facebook observations are a) kids love the show and b) those who have been around the block more often find it tedious, poorly placed, and a poor execution of some halfway decent ideas.
Now, my thoughts: Plot/setting: "Political refugees and misfits escape via stable oneway timerift to a parallel past" is a combination of science fiction tropes that work fine for plot reasons. Parallel past allows for people to actually act and do things without consequences for the future (Utley's Silurian short story cycle and Stirling's Nantucket series both used this premise). The "political refugees and misfits escape via stable oneway time rift" is the same background of May's Saga of Pliocene Exile, and plenty of good stories (Steele's Coyote colony books) [and, of course, reality!!] have been written about misfits and other refugees as pioneers.
The idea of using the Santonian is a good one: it is largely a "twilight zone" in terms of our paleontological knowledge, which gives greater freedom to the writers. It stands between the pretty well known communities of the Cenomanian and the extraordinarily well known faunas of the Campano-Maastrichtian. If the writers were clever (ah, if only...) they could draw upon both time slices to create late survivors of the Cenomanian faunas and early precursors of the latest K. But more about what they actually did below...
I am not quite certain if they established WHERE on the Earth the colony is (I missed it if they said). This is an issue, because by the Santonian you are getting regionalization of faunas to some degree, and that is going to effect your taxon choice. Or at least, it SHOULD affect your taxon choice.
The mountainous setting has multiple uses: From the point of view of the audience, it is pretty. From the point of view of characters in the story, it makes sense: running fresh water, and the potential for hydroelectic power. From the point of view of the writers, the fact that montane faunas basically don't wind up as fossils gives them additional leeway in creating taxa.
The critters: * Brachiosaurus. Umm, Brachiosaurus. Apparently a very late surviving population... And they obviously went back in time prior to the 2000s to find these ones, because they hadn't heard about the repositioning of the fleshy nostrils! (My suspicion: they modded the CGI models from Jurassic Park, and didn't correct this issue). Nice aspect: they make reference to the fact (in our world, possibility) that they occasionally chomped on small animals, too: hat tip to Greg Paul. On the other hand, they referred to "incisors" on these guys...
* Carnotaurus. A very early population of these... (Redated, Carnotaurus is one of the youngest of the abelisaurids. But it was once considered Aptian/Albian. Maybe this is a population in transit due to the redating...) Utterly failed to get the forearms right on them (again!): so far Dinosaur Revolution and Planet Dinosaur's models are the only correct abelisaurid arms in CG. While we do not have Carnotaurus' metatarsi, they gave it feet that are probably far too long and slender based on other abelisaurids.
They could have said "brachiosaur" and "abelisaur" and it would have been fine: we might get both of these 85 Ma. Specifying the genus name (okay, I know that etymologically that phrase is inaccurate!) sets them up to be wrong. If I were a consultant on this (which I'm not), I would encourage them not to use particular known genera.
Also, this is where knowledge of where on Earth they are is important. If North America or mainland Asia, the presence of an abelisaurid is just contradictory to our current information on dinosaurian biogeography! Any other continent, not so bad.
* Acceraptor. An invented dinosaur, nicknamed "the slasher". Inventing new dinosaurs isn't a bad idea, so long as the invention is reasonable, given that new species are named at a rate of about 1/week or more. This thing, though: it looks something like a toothed oviraptorosaur (or an oviraptorosaur-crested dromaeosaur) with Jurassic Park "bunny hands" syndrome and a slashing tail weapon. If it were me, I'd have suggested some sort of megaraptoran neovenatorid. (And jeez, if you want a pack hunting predator, you are smack dab in the middle of Eudromaeosauria's stratigraphic range!)
* Giant centipedes. Yes, you read me right: giant freaking scolopendrid centipedes. Maybe 2 m long. What is next: giant man-eating plants with mobile tentacles?!? Shades of bad "lost world" movies of yore...
The colony: Fleeing to the mid-Cretaceous to escape high CO2 levels, is like trying to get out of the cold by heading back to the Last Glacial Maximum! It is NOT going to be like a "breath of fresh air". They do make reference to people and crops suffering from hyperoxic conditions, but it is not certain if this is because they are using the model where mid-Jurassic through Cretaceous atmosphere have higher-than-present pO2 concentrations (still a matter of debate in paleoclimatology), or if it is supposed to be the reaction of people from the craptactular atmosphere of the mid-22nd Century breathing clean air for once. Sadly, I expect the latter. Just a reminder: the atmosphere of the past is no more the same as the present atmosphere anymore than the geography of the past is like the present.
That said, at least it would lack all the industrial pollutants, so there are plenty of reasons to want to go back.
However, food may be an issue: most grains use the C4 metabolic pathway, and these plants do poorly in higher CO2 conditions. They will probably have to mostly live off the land.
SPECULATIONS (you are warned): There are mysterious writing (equations) left on rocks that the colony leader has forbidden people to see. Given these, and some other comments, I suspect that the secret mission of the colony is actually to set up a reverse time rift to ship back natural resources to their home timeline. Or maybe not, we'll see.
Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. Email: tholtz@umd.edu Phone: 301-405-4084 Office: Centreville 1216 Senior Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
About that guy from Avatar- I recognised him the moment he was introduced, with his back to the camera. And I did, because this episode was Avatar. They just changed the names. 1) Man with problems escapes the world to start everything anew 2) The world is fabulous, paradise-like 3) There are gigantic creatures there, which are dangerous 4) The guy from Avatar is the guy from Terra Nova now. Says "clicks" instead of "miles" and gives us a lot of confidence. 5) There is ore, which is extremely valuable. 6) There probably indigenous people there, like the Naavi (the equations on the rocks)
All in all the episode wasnt half bad The only thing is- how the hell did they communicate with the 22nd century now they've created a new time-string-thing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I initially thought the equations were natives as well, but they made it pretty clear later on that it was Taylor's son.
That pretty much kills the connection to Avatar.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Yeah, I posted it before watching it till the end But the rest is still accurate
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
And why dont have choppers? IT would be ok if the were really short on technology, but they arent, they have that medical stuff (and yet they use giant leechers... That was the really low point)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Hydrogen powers ostensibly, which might be more difficult to pull off with flying things.
Also its not Avatar, its more like Stargate Universe.
So far they picked the one good thing about Avatar to bring on board, the Commander guy.
God I hated that movie.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
You got anything to contribute or are you flaunting your new found ability to use the control copy and paste ability of your computer? You know what's nifty? "Alt+F4".
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Sharing a relevant link isn't contributing? What exactly did your post contribute?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
It's dobbie. And its lacks elaboration, and is rarely done on these forums.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Did Blayne just trash someone for posting a link to tvtropes? Seriously?
I'm not even sure if the English language has words powerful enough to describe the feeling that provokes.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Because I think he did it to insult me not because he wanted to "contribute".
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Whether or not he did, you did a good job making yourself the punchline.
CONGRATULATIONS
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Whatever. But a one line non sequitor drive by shit post with no prompting, elaboration, or detail. With no substantiative addition to the discussion or reasoning behind what is essentially a random link by a poster with a history of trolling is surely by rights a suspicious thing.
So thanks for letting the trolls win yet again, you chose to focus on me instead of the troll, congratulations.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:So thanks for letting the trolls win yet again...
Blayne, the instant you paid him the honor of a reply, he won.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Unless I was mistaken, if I was I'ld be embarrassed for a moment and then apologize and move on, if not then I'ld still feel good for chiding him/it/her.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Blayne: You could have just ignored Dobbie. His post in of itself wasn't against the TOS, but he apparently used good bait because you pounced.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Back to the subject: Now that I think of it, any movie concerning colonizing a new world would look like Avatar, so maybe it was just the first impression. It was just this guy who made my mind set on it. I havent watched stargate, so I dont know... One more thing- have you ever played The Longest Journey game? There were also Indian British there, and the main character name was Zoe too. And the Game also starts in far far future and they move back to alternate past.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I figured they stole the plot from a Choose Your Own Adventure Novel rather than Avatar or anything like that.
"To Leave Terra Nova, turn to page 50. To stay in Terra Nova and attend Orientation, turn to page 90."
Page 50 - After you leave Terra Nova, you are eaten by a dinosaur. You are dead.
I imagine most sections end with "Turn to page 50."
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
By the way, Blayne, at the very least, your posted article earlier got a couple things wrong.
It's not a colony of misfits and outcasts. The doctor wife was specifically recruited because she's the top of her field. There's some sort of mix of lottery and recruitment going on. It's not a sci-fi Australia where they send outcasts, they're trying to build a successful world, so they send the best.
I'm not sure I get his point about the climate. Weren't oxygen levels back then dramatically higher than they are now? The sense I got from the show was that the air wasn't just CO2 heavy, it was just plain polluted in general. So they weren't just trying to escape CO2. And they specifically mentioned the problems with the soil. Furthermore, if the problem is too much O2 and not too much CO2, I don't see what the crop problems are, except for the fact that I seriously question how suitable the soil would be, but then, I'm not a terraformer. Really, with a colony of earth worms they could solve that problem.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
CO2 is just one reason I suppose. I mean, look at that planet, who wouldn't like to leave this place... And by the way, is every episode going to be that long or was it just the first one doubled?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The episode was doubled ala Stargate Universe's pilot, it says "Genesis Part 1, Part 2" in the credits.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: CO2 is just one reason I suppose. I mean, look at that planet, who wouldn't like to leave this place... And by the way, is every episode going to be that long or was it just the first one doubled?
They mentioned that there were domes, so I suppose there is some way to live other than in the polluted environment.
Some people may not want to go because they are afraid of living in a place with huge meat eating dinosaurs.
Something else I thought of though.... How is it they are able to create a freaking time machine but not a decent interplanetary colonization program?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Not all technology levels are equivalent, they found a negative space wedgie that they could force people through with enough energy.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Yeah, living in a dome for a whole life must be really fantastic. This ore thing is also far-fetched, why dont they just send iron from the future? Wooden fence is really funny. But maybe they will explain the transportation problem in further episodes, so that it is more credible.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: Yeah, living in a dome for a whole life must be really fantastic. This ore thing is also far-fetched, why dont they just send iron from the future? Wooden fence is really funny. But maybe they will explain the transportation problem in further episodes, so that it is more credible.
I got the impression that it was a special kind of iron ore. You know, with magical properties.
I did think it was kind of awesome how Taylor said he lived in the jungle for 118 days (or however long it was) before other colonists arrived. I don't exactly know how they were able to get the place built without any heavy machinery though. The time portal didn't really look like it was more than about 15 feet high either, so I don't know how they would get it through.
As for the wooden fence, why on earth would you leave enough space open for smaller meat eating dinosaurs to make it through and potentially eat small children? Or small children to just squeeze through?
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Was it just me or did anyone else think this show would have been more interesting with a few more mysteries? I was also disappointed that the guy's son was the one behind the math on the rocks stuff, rather than some mysterious alien/dinosaur race or something.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm actually fine without the LOST-style mystery. I mean, we still don't know exactly what his son is doing out there. There's still mystery, it's just not crazy mystery like LOST.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Yeah, it's too soon for another mystery heavy show along the lines of LOST. I'm fine with "What do the drawings mean?" but I wouldn't be fine with, "What does reality itself mean?!"
Today's episode wasn't too bad, it was kinda nice to get a sense of Tera Nova only existing for about a year. We got some drama with the ex-boyfriend, which I'm sure we haven't seen the last of, and we were briefly reminded somebody in the camp is working for the other team.
My only gripe, (Spoilers!!!!!)
Those pterosaurs couldn't possibly weigh more than five lbs. Yet they knocked not one, but two people out just by swooping by. One guy actually had his feet fly above his head before hitting the ground he was hit so hard. Also, I laughed when the son couldn't shut the door because again a five-pounder was flying and pushing against it.
What was up with people just holding their hands up to get picked and slashed at? Freaking swat and grab at those things, they can't be that durable.
Sorry two gripes.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't know, they looked bigger than five pounds to me. When Zoe is hiding under the bench and the thing comes at her, it looks like she and it are pretty close to the same size. I mean a cocker spaniel is 25-30lbs, and I'd say they were probably about that size or bigger. Now add the impact of them flying to that weight and I'd say they were more than capable, in their thousands, of causing a lot of damage and injuries.
When did they say that Terra Nova had only been there for a year? I got the impression from the first episode that earlier pilgrims had come years and years ago. Were they in some sort of camps before Terra Nova was built?
I'm glad the kid dropped his mopey whining thing. His "welcome back to the family" comment was more playful than petulant. If the other doc sticks around, I think we're supposed to think he's the spy.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
So for the people who are going to get invested in watching this show: how on earth do you think it's ever, ever going to survive?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hard to say before they get further into it. After three episodes, there is a lot of potential, and I think the acting is certainly there, but the writing is hit-or-miss.
I can't tell if they are going to turn this into a Star Trek TNG/Stargate style weird-thing-of-the-week format, or if they are going to harp on the serial plot, or some combination of the two.
They have 10 more episodes guaranteed, we'll see after that, and it's helped by the fact that it's syndicated, already, in a half dozen other countries, that helps to defray the cost.
I think it's still too early. And frankly, this is almost always why I never watch new shows. I hate that shows have to be a success after two episodes or they're already a failure.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Lyrhawn: For them to be able to fly at all, they have to have lower mass. Birds have hollow bones to partially accomplish this. If they somehow managed to top say 30 lbs, they would still die plowing into a human being, even a ten year old.
It's not a question of them causing damage, they can certainly scratch, bite, etc. They could even dive bomb into a person seriously stab somebody ala The Birds. But they couldn't hit a full grown man and cause him to almost do a flip, and they DEFINITELY couldn't stop a teenager from shutting a door, no matter how much they flapped their wings.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
But those things were pretty damn big. Birds are, by and large, pretty small. And pterodactyls were HUGE and still flew.
I'll grant you the door closing thing. But hey, a golden eagle can take down a medium-sized reindeer in the wild. This doesn't strike me as too far-fetched.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pterodactyls definitely could fly, and glide. But they couldn't just zip around like a peregrine falcon.
They really didn't seem very big to me. That wing material is extremely flimsy and gives the appearance of greater bulk than is really there. The things are even more useless on the ground, their hands and feet are functionally useless.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
When I first saw the fence, I thought- it is not enough for probably 85% dinosaurs. And it wasnt from the second episode. They should have some kind of underground shelters. But then, they made it to the shaft so they are apparently very intelligent... I liked the 3d computer things though, something like Ender's, that's how I always imagined them.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: So for the people who are going to get invested in watching this show: how on earth do you think it's ever, ever going to survive?
Fox makes it about 50%, but it does have 9 million viewers, good acting, an interesting premise and is syndicated over seas.
BB: I'ld say that "Reality Is Unrealistic" and leave it at that, momentum from diving at the right angle and from seeing the relatively odd balance the people who fell over were at makes it reasonable.
They weren't exactly standing still with their legs firmly, they were running and pannicing.
I'm with Lyrhawn, they looked heavier than 5 pounds and they are NOT birds, they're reptiles.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Blayne: Why on earth does it matter that they are reptiles not birds? Gravity doesn't really care what kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species you are assigned to.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: I was also disappointed that the guy's son was the one behind the math on the rocks stuff, rather than some mysterious alien/dinosaur race or something.
Someone send a copy of Chrono Trigger to Steven Spielberg! Quickly! The show can still be salvaged!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Blayne: Why on earth does it matter that they are reptiles not birds? Gravity doesn't really care what kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species you are assigned to.
People thought the honey bee wasnt able to fly once.
I also happen to know that a goose can break a grown mans arm. I don't think its far fetched for a dinosaur bird thing to do have a similar amount of newtons behind its dive bomb.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: People thought the honey bee wasnt able to fly once.
Yes, and by people I didn't mean credited people with degrees, I meant Joe Schmoe's gut feelings.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote: Score one for the fanbois! In its second week (and third episode), Fox's Terra Nova fell a scant 3% to a 3.0 preliminary adults 18-49 rating. Update: in time zone adjusted fast nationals, Terra Nova was adjusted up a tenth to a 3.1 adults 18-49 rating, retaining 100% of last week's two-hour premiere rating.
Woot.
I know exactly what this show is, its Stargate Universe (one way wormhole) meets Eureka (out of town cop) meets Jurassic Park.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Blayne: Why on earth does it matter that they are reptiles not birds? Gravity doesn't really care what kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species you are assigned to.
Then why don't lizards ever pole vault?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Yes, and by people I didn't mean credited people with degrees, I meant Joe Schmoe's gut feelings.
So by extension your belief that these dinos can bowl grown men over, and push doors open are based in gut feelings?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
No, I am saying that your objection that they cannot do so and it by implication breaks your willing suspension of disbelief is gut feeling and not rooted in fact.
Other people I have spoken to have had some form of experience or another where they have encountered similar, something small but otherwise fast moving easily bowling them over. A soccer ball for instance can easily send someone into a concussion.
I wonder if Mythbusters would take the case.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dobbie:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Blayne: Why on earth does it matter that they are reptiles not birds? Gravity doesn't really care what kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species you are assigned to.
Then why don't lizards ever pole vault?
Not sure if that was a informed joke or not, but they did.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: No, I am saying that your objection that they cannot do so and it by implication breaks your willing suspension of disbelief is gut feeling and not rooted in fact.
Wait what? You were the one who mentioned bumble bees being unable to fly.
quote: Other people I have spoken to have had some form of experience or another where they have encountered similar, something small but otherwise fast moving easily bowling them over. A soccer ball for instance can easily send someone into a concussion.
I never said the things couldn't knock somebody out. I said they couldn't hit with so much force a person's feet fly above their head, and they hit the ground. I also stated it would be impossible for them to keep a teenage boy from closing a door. Maybe if their beaks got wedged in the doorway, but certainly not from muscular might.
quote: I wonder if Mythbusters would take the case.
I doubt they'd need to, what I'm ascerting seems so patently obvious, I'm not sure why you think there is any debate on the subject.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
They only need to have low mass relative to wingspan. The heaviest flying bird nowadays can get up to 44 lbs, and the ecosystem then could support larger flying animals. The largest pterodactyl, quetzocoatl, topped 100 pounds. Plus, flying animal's wing muscles are much stronger proportionally, which is what lets large swans (big ones are 20 lbs-ish) occasionally break children's arms and do other heavy damage. The front of the wing is generally very strong, as well.
I'm just about to watch the episode, but I could easily see a large pterodactyl doing the things listed.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
The animals in this episode are definitely not as big as pteronodon or pterodactyl. They are about as big as chickens*.
*The kind of chickens not being given growth hormone.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Oh, those couldn't do squat to a person.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You know, I think they actually fail to have a consistent size. After the attack, Dr. Creepyface cradles a small one in his hands that make them look tiny. But in the later night time attack, they appear to be the size of a small child.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The adult sized one I am certain is about the size of a 11 year old and a low center of gravity.
Mythbusters takes ALOT of surprisingly simple/obious cases, you would be surprised like does a silencer actually make the "pwuff pwuff" sound.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:The adult sized one I am certain is about the size of a 11 year old and a low center of gravity.
We have vastly different memories about their size.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yeah, those were nowhere near the size of an 11 year old; the largest ones we saw had bodies slightly larger than an 11 year old's head.
However, I mostly had no problem with how they were portrayed. For instance, the son being knocked over when we first saw them attack was him running away and being knocked off balance/tripping. Most of the physical reactions to their attacks were similar. The not being able to shut the door thing was silly, but I suspect mostly due the actors and director having a hard time working with an enemy that was all cgi and possibly still not finalized in appearance.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: They have 10 more episodes guaranteed, we'll see after that, and it's helped by the fact that it's syndicated, already, in a half dozen other countries, that helps to defray the cost.
I think it's still too early. And frankly, this is almost always why I never watch new shows. I hate that shows have to be a success after two episodes or they're already a failure.
That's not what you should hate. This show has set itself up in the unenviable position of needing to be a wild success right out of the gate to justify its four million dollars an episode budget, and is being headed by people who will astound me completely if they defy my expectations by (1) not writing the show into several sci-fi corners, and (2) not writing characters poorly and getting watchers stuck in a wasteland of bad drama to shore up the time you can't fill the screen with dinosaur CGI rarr snarl.
This is not an issue of the industry being oppressive to hopeful ventures; if it bombs, it's its own fault. And I will be pretty amazed if this doesn't bomb.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
One thing that drives me nuts? Starting a TV season with multiple parallel love stories that all progress at about the exact same time.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
There's only one fairly low key love story going on, with the two really boring teenagers.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Point is, a bunch of screen time goes to watching two boring teenage romances blossom at the same time.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Awww come on. I think the 16 year old girl and the soldier boy is kind of innocent and cute.
The son though, meh. At least they are using it as a plot device to show that the bartender is working with the sixers. I do have my doubts about Skye though. (The blonde girl) I think she is also working with the sixers, and I'll bet she secretly blames Taylor for losing her parents.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think I can put the blame entirely on Brannan Braga.
We have people BACK IN TIME with DINOSAURS and yet they are finding ways to screw up, seriously? Weird mutant virus? Episode THREE!? They could be exploring dinosaurs or something but nooooo.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
I'd blame Spielberg and his insistence on it being a "family show". Braga's last "hands-on" job was probably Enterprise, and it was a lot better than this.
This week's episode was a little better. Only one dinosaur, but it was moderately more interesting. But when did the others . . . I mean the sixers . . . become wild barbarian primitives? The scenes from next week look good. I guess they're finally trying to do some mythology (I say finally, but we're only a handful of episodes in).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Man, "Enterprise was better than this" is actually a really deadly insult.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Man, "Enterprise was better than this" is actually a really deadly insult.
If it can legitimately be said of the show, I better make a hat-eating bet, and soon.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Enterprise was triple-cursed: - The Star Trek fans felt alienated because of some of the changes (tv-style theme song, step back into the past, "excessive" time travel, etc) - The non-Trekkies wouldn't watch it because Trek was . . . well, Trek. - It received a Friday timeslot (of death) prior to widespread DVR availability.
For all the challenges, it actually did really well, and it did well in syndication later. It had more viewers than Fringe does now. It was actually a very strong show -- probably the best ST series since TNG. I know that I'm not alone in that opinion.
From a science fiction fan's perspective, Enterprise was vastly superior to Terra Nova. From a family show perspective . . . I don't know. My kids seem to be enjoying Terra Nova.
[ October 18, 2011, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Aros ]
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: ... probably the best ST series since TNG.
*wince*
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote: If you watched it, it was actually a very strong show -- probably the best ST series since TNG. I know that I'm not alone in that opinion.
Really? That's amazing. I live with a gaggle of nerds and I can find no dissent of the opinion that Enterprise sucked. I can't judge personally because I could not get through more than four episodes but it really did bore me silly.
Also, the best series since TNG was DS9.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Lies. Probably the same kind of "nerds" who prefer Big Bang Theory to the IT Crowd.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
You can certainly personally hold the opinion that Enterprise was better than DS9, but you are going to be in the extreme, extreme minority.
I definitely disagree with the idea wholesale! I thought Enterprise started horrifically, and even in its 'stride' wasn't .. going to survive.
I went and hunted down my status posts from after I tested both of those other shows.
IT Crowd:
quote:watched the first episode of a show called The IT Crowd. I thought "This show is either british, or an already cancelled disaster"
maybe in a few episodes i'll hope it's british
pps i loathe british laughtracks
wait, that answers the question
big bang theory
quote:i need to make a comic about two dinky tv execs going 'assburgers is sure funny huh!!!!! lets make a show about it!!!!!!!!11111 we will call it big bang theory~'
man i'm mean to new shows
[ October 18, 2011, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Eh. Enterprise got much better after the first season, as did TNG. It dared to be different, and it really pushed a lot of boundaries. I'm in the minority merely because a lot of the normal Star Trek fans didn't watch it. Like Parkour said, a lot of people didn't get through more than a few episodes (I still contend that it was the theme song). My wife hadn't; I made her watch it, and she became one of its most fervent supporters.
DS9? Deep Space Soap Opera? Sucked.
I'm glad someone has the guts to be mean to Big Bang Theory. It's only a little step up from Two and a Half Men.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Back to Terra Nova, it looks like it has an audience that's not falling off week-to-week -- they actually had an 8% gain over last week (not even counting DVR numbers). I hope that it can kick it up a notch. It does have potential.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:DS9? Deep Space Soap Opera? Sucked.
I'm sorry you feel that way! I don't rank a single Star Trek over it.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:DS9? Deep Space Soap Opera? Sucked.
I'm sorry you feel that way! I don't rank a single Star Trek over it.
Word. DS9 was the best Star Trek show. When it first came out I was worried that it would be boring, but then they introduced the Dominion and all of the sudden it turned into the best show on television at the time.
The best Star Trek episode ever though is still "The Inner Light" from TNG. I still tear up whenever I see it. I still contend that Picard should have won an emmy for his performance in that episode, but hey, at least the show itself did.
What is with sci-fi shows not getting the emmy cred they deserve? I can think of a couple episodes of Fringe in which John Noble deserves one. (Like this latest episode)
As for Terra Nova, this week's episode was pretty good. I am fine with these types of episodes as long as it moves the mythology and plot forward, however slowly. I was kind of let down that Mira's motivations were for her daughter though. I thought it was a kind of cop-out. I was hoping she would tell Jim that it was for a greater cause.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:From Aros: DS9? Deep Space Soap Opera? Sucked.
You are dead to me.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:DS9? Deep Space Soap Opera? Sucked.
I'm sorry you feel that way! I don't rank a single Star Trek over it.
We are now best friends.
Geraine -
Sci-fi, and fantasy (more with novels really) has always gotten the shaft, and always will. There's a reason why Return of the King got a billion Oscars. They saved them all up for the last movie and shafted the others intentionally, though frankly they all deserved heaps of awards. ROTK wasn't even the best one.
Battlestar Galactica was fantastic, with top notch writing, technical stuff, and acting. Next Generation deserved several awards for writing and acting, especially for Patrick Stewart. Babylon 5 deserved oodles of writing awards, and probably even a few for graphics (which suck by today's standards but were awesome in the early 90s for CGI).
DS9 had great writing, directing, acting, and in general was one of the few shows for any genre actually putting character development over plot at the time it aired. It was funny, it was dark (though they hate that description), it was realistic where TNG was clean and pressed. Almost all of TNG was philosophical issues dealt with from on high in the safety of the ship. The best episodes were the ones that took away their safety and cleanliness. Those were the rule rather than the exception on DS9.
It was awesome.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote: Sci-fi, and fantasy (more with novels really) has always gotten the shaft, and always will. There's a reason why Return of the King got a billion Oscars. They saved them all up for the last movie and shafted the others intentionally, though frankly they all deserved heaps of awards. ROTK wasn't even the best one.
I love the LOTR movies very much. What I don't understand is how my wife hates it so much. She says the acting sucks, there is no plot, the graphics suck, and it is very campy. Of course, she didn't even get more than halfway into FOTR, because of the above reasons. She has seen clips of the others when I have watched it.
Are there others that have such polar opposite views of these movies, or is she just on the fringe. When she told me that it had no plot, I was like
My wife is quite smart and has good reasons for her opinions in most other cases, but I think she is just fantasy-racist in this case
Back to topic, I thought the latest episode of Terra Nova was better, but I am still waiting for it to grab me.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marlozhan: [QUOTE] What I don't understand is how my wife hates it so much. She says the acting sucks, there is no plot, the graphics suck, and it is very campy. Of course, she didn't even get more than halfway into FOTR, because of the above reasons. She has seen clips of the others when I have watched it.
Are there others that have such polar opposite views of these movies, or is she just on the fringe. When she told me that it had no plot, I was like
My wife is quite smart and has good reasons for her opinions in most other cases, but I think she is just fantasy-racist in this case
This is a good example of a few points: - When someone hasn't actually watched something all the way through, they are a poor judge. I talked bad about the old Dune movie for years before I'd actually sat down and watched it through. - Some things are better (or worse) in context. If you'd read all of the Star Wars novels, you'd have a different view of the movies. Same with Game of Thrones, Dune, etc. Someone invested in a genre will have a much different reaction. Genres rely on tropes, yes, but themes are also at play. I have an aversion to both sports and military themed movies. - Many shows / movies are tainted by your mood when watching. Some movies I only recommend people to watch when they're bored, because that's frankly the only time they'll enjoy them. Do you really want to watch Mad Men on a Friday night after you've been drinking? Or would you rather watch Starship Troopers?
It's interesting. I knew a few people who never gave Enterprise a chance, who really ended up liking it later. I didn't have time to keep up with the linear storyline on DS9, so I didn't enjoy it (when I tried to rewatch years later, I found that it didn't age super-well).
Should you stick through a bad show because it gets good later? TNG, Enterprise, Fringe, Sarah Connor, and Dollhouse are all examples of shows that didn't hit their stride until the second or third season. I'd argue that they still have value, however. They can't all be Firefly. As for the LOTR -- bribe her to watch all three.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros:
quote:Originally posted by Marlozhan: [QUOTE] What I don't understand is how my wife hates it so much. She says the acting sucks, there is no plot, the graphics suck, and it is very campy. Of course, she didn't even get more than halfway into FOTR, because of the above reasons. She has seen clips of the others when I have watched it.
Are there others that have such polar opposite views of these movies, or is she just on the fringe. When she told me that it had no plot, I was like
My wife is quite smart and has good reasons for her opinions in most other cases, but I think she is just fantasy-racist in this case
This is a good example of a few points: - When someone hasn't actually watched something all the way through, they are a poor judge. I talked bad about the old Dune movie for years before I'd actually sat down and watched it through. - Some things are better (or worse) in context. If you'd read all of the Star Wars novels, you'd have a different view of the movies. Same with Game of Thrones, Dune, etc. Someone invested in a genre will have a much different reaction. Genres rely on tropes, yes, but themes are also at play. I have an aversion to both sports and military themed movies. - Many shows / movies are tainted by your mood when watching. Some movies I only recommend people to watch when they're bored, because that's frankly the only time they'll enjoy them. Do you really want to watch Mad Men on a Friday night after you've been drinking? Or would you rather watch Starship Troopers?
It's interesting. I knew a few people who never gave Enterprise a chance, who really ended up liking it later. I didn't have time to keep up with the linear storyline on DS9, so I didn't enjoy it (when I tried to rewatch years later, I found that it didn't age super-well).
Should you stick through a bad show because it gets good later? TNG, Enterprise, Fringe, Sarah Connor, and Dollhouse are all examples of shows that didn't hit their stride until the second or third season. I'd argue that they still have value, however. They can't all be Firefly. As for the LOTR -- bribe her to watch all three.
It's kind of hard to bribe someone when you share a joint bank account.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: They can't all be Firefly.
Every time someone mentions Firefly, I die a little more inside.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Firefly firefly firefly!
It's like clapping for tinkerbell in reverse!
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
This would be more fun to watch if you were dying on the outside.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
A bribe doesn't have to be in cash. (Get your mind out of the gutter!)
I got my wife to watch Hellraiser 2 on a bribe. In return, I watched Rocky Horror. Guess who got nightmares!?!? (Hint: It was me.)
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Firefly firefly firefly!
It's like clapping for tinkerbell in reverse!
You......You really hate me that much? Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: I didn't have time to keep up with the linear storyline on DS9, so I didn't enjoy it (when I tried to rewatch years later, I found that it didn't age super-well).
I was all set to jump on the bandwagon giving you crap for badmouthing DS9 (Because you deserve it) but I have to say I can actually sort of accept this reason. DS9 relies a little less on episodic storytelling and a little more on... actual storytelling in the vein of shows that came later (was the increasing trend of this vastly superior method determined more okay due to DVR or what? I've never owned a DVR so the thought didn't occur to me.)
When I first watched DS9 I missed a lot of episodes and had a hard time with it. Later, I watched it on DVD and it was great. Some aspects haven't aged well but that didn't detract from it for me.
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