If anyone still remembers, I took up the challenge (with SteveRogers) to write a YA fiction novel in a "long weekend," or four days. Originally I hoped to write the story in one four day stretch...but the realities of grad school are making that impossible. Instead, I'm going to write it over four days, but they'll be spaced out a bit for the sake of feasibility.
My goal is a roughly 70,000 word book. After one writing session, I'm 14,000 words in. Three more sessions like that, combined with SteveRogers' contribution will get to that goal, which is roughly the size of the Hunger Games, or the first Harry Potter book. The original goal was also to have Liz B's class of 8th graders read the book in May, which I'm looking forward to.
If anyone wants to follow along as I go, I'm more than happy to share drafts and chapters as I come up with them, either post here or shoot me an email. I wouldn't mind the feedback, I'm editing as I write, sort of.
A brief plot synopsis:
It's the story of Rose Fortune, a fifteen year old girl living in Paris with her father, who is an American diplomat. After a mundane intro, she finds out that magic is real, and incredibly dangerous. She's being hunted, but she doesn't know by whom, or why. She'll find out why, and how magic works, and it'll terrify her as much as excite her, I think.
It's basically modern urban fantasy. Rose leaves her father and goes on the run to try to figure out who wants her and why, and also to figure out how magic works.
I could go into more detail if anyone is interested, or if you'd like to avoid spoilers and check it out, I can send you what I have so far. It's at about 28 single spaced pages, 12 point new times roman font on MS Word at the moment.
Some of it is going to feel like stereotypes and tropes. It's really hard to get away from some things because the "magic/powers are real" genre has been hit so hard in the last decade, but I think I put some nice twists on a couple things that make it a little different.
[ December 03, 2012, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Sounds like fun.
I'd love to read what you have so far.
I think I've emailed you before. Will look for it and send another one so you don't have to dig. (my email is... pretty obvious, though)
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Email me as well, though in return you must also read my stuff!
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Blayne that's not how this sort of thing works.
Believe me, a surefire way to ensure nobody reads your stuff is trying to push people into reading your stuff.
(Spoken as a failing amateur writer who only has a couple friends and family that are actually willing to read his crap.)
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Oh...or I could read the other thread.
I will tell the kids tomorrow! Yesterday one asked, "Hey, is that guy still writing that book for us or what?"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The other thread actually turned back into a serious discussion of Hunger Games. Didn't want to muck it up. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Dan I sent you a copy.
Blayne, I'm afraid I don't have the time to look over your stuff right now. Maybe over the summer when I have more time? If you'd still like to look over mine, I'd be pleased to have your opinion. You're Hatrack's resident expert on tropes and stereotypes. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
It's actually been, though I dare speak for both Lyrhawn and myself at this time, a very fun and interesting experience.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I absolutely agree!
I've written more in one day than in the last two years combined. And it's taking surprising turns even for me as a writer. It's quite fun.
Plus SteveRogers and I have a bit of a mind meld thing going on that's leading to some great ideas. I'm almost sad this process is going to be so short.
But there's always Book II!
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I'd be really interested in reading this! My email should be on my profile. I've been reading a ton of YA for work and I'd love to see what sort of twists you've done.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent it to the email in your profile Shanna. Thanks Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Dan I sent you a copy.
Blayne, I'm afraid I don't have the time to look over your stuff right now. Maybe over the summer when I have more time? If you'd still like to look over mine, I'd be pleased to have your opinion. You're Hatrack's resident expert on tropes and stereotypes.
Perhaps I should've been more clear, I meant read my stuff eventually as they are not written yet. v v
Additionally Dan this is how it works. When people want critique they have to also be willing to offer it. This is how virtually every writing forum works that I've been to.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent you a copy, Blayne. Hope you enjoy it. I'm hoping to pound out another 15,000 words today. Let's see how I do!
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
For those getting a preview, this might be a good place to provide feedback as well. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I updated them. They are kind of surprised that it's actually happening, I think. But mainly they're excited.
I can't decide if I want to see the draft in progress or wait till it's done...I'll think about it over spring break. Happy writing!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Alas, it doesn't look like I'm going to make 15,000 words before I head to bed tonight. I've gotten through about 4,000 words in the last couple hours, and we're up to 37 pages now. I think the chapter I just wrote is the best yet. Writing this much and this focused is, I think, forcing me to better my writing with each chapter. I just reread the last chapter a couple times and did a little minor editing, but all in all I'm actually very pleased with.
Hopefully I'll still be able to at least crack the 20,000 mark before I go to bed tonight. Wish me luck!
Edit to add: Signing off for the night at 21,444 and 41 pages.
[ March 31, 2012, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Takes a little while long to read somethng ANDS write comments...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sat down today to write another large section and have a serious case of writer's block. I know exactly what happens next, I have the plot summaries for each chapter of the rest of the book, but I wrote one line for the eighth chapter, which I like, and can't seem to come up with another. I think I'm getting a little case of writer's fatigue.
SPOILERS (for those that care that much)
I've found lately that some scenes are taking much longer to write than I expected they would. Chapter 6, originally, was supposed to feature Rose meeting up with her friends, and then a bunch of stuff after that. But what was "Rose meets up with friends" on my chapter summary became an entire chapter, and it's taken three chapters to write what was originally just one.
I've also found a lot of surprises along the way. I have it all worked out, I know how it's going to happen in the big picture, but lots of smaller stuff is surprising me as I write it. It's maybe my favorite part of writing, when I discover something about the characters or world I'm writing in that I didn't know beforehand, like it was always that way, and I didn't create it, I just found out about it and reported it. And now I look back at those things and think to myself of course it's that way, and it couldn't be any other.
But now I'm starting at the first line of this chapter: "It was Rose's first sound night of sleep in days. The Swift house felt like a refuge, the only safe island in an ocean of storms." And trying to figure out where it goes next.
Looks like it's gut check time.
[ April 01, 2012, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Woah woah woah spoilers slow down.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sorry! Didn't think about that.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:But now I'm starting at the first line of this chapter: "It was Rose's first sound night of sleep in days. The Swift house felt like a refuge, the only safe island in an ocean of storms." And trying to figure out where it goes next.
Hopefully this is the chapter where the real trouble starts? Because that opening sounds ominous to me. Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Lyr: Just fyi I do plan on reading this but I have been sort of overwhelmed with personal stuff. Sorry to be a lamer and ask for a copy only to not give you feedback!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hey, no worries! I still have lots of writing left to do, and some editing, so there's plenty of time. Whenever you get to it is fine with me. Just take your time. If you like, just email me when you have the time, and I can send you the latest copy.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots:
quote:But now I'm starting at the first line of this chapter: "It was Rose's first sound night of sleep in days. The Swift house felt like a refuge, the only safe island in an ocean of storms." And trying to figure out where it goes next.
Hopefully this is the chapter where the real trouble starts? Because that opening sounds ominous to me.
SPOILERS
Well, the previous chapter ended with this:
"What do you intend to do now?" John asked.
She stood and faced Penfold and her friends.
"Well my family is full of bounty hunters aren't they?" She turned back to John and flashed him a ferocious grin. "I think it's time I stop being the hunted and become the hunter."
She's already been in plenty of trouble, cliched though it sounds. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Exams coming up, i'll try to send back my review when I can. I do have a short story I can send you (or anyone interested) if you (or anyone) want(s).
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Hello. The kids are pestering.
That is all.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Now that the semester is over, I'm getting back into it. I lost about a month during the end of the semester. It was a nightmare. I didn't do anything but read and read and read and write papers.
As of right now, I'm maybe halfway through it. Is there a hard deadline for when it needs to be done for them to get to it? I might be able to get it done by next week, if a little roughly, before I go on vacation.
Would 30,000 words tide them over for long? They can read the first half as a tease.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
8 week summer semester for me, so I'm a bit busy just resend me your most uptodate stuff and I'll merge my commentary with it and continue it at some point.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I would love to read what you have so far Lyr!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'll hook you both up in a couple days. My internet has been down all day and will be done for a couple more until the tech gets there. I'm holed up at a friend's house now. Thanks.
Without the internet, I'm sure I'll be cranking the words out over the next couple days.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
It's always good to see people writing, so I wholeheartedly approve your experiment, Lyr.
I'm right in the middle of writing a YA science fiction novel, myself. I think I'm at about 140 pages (33,000 words, roughly, if I remember right). It has taken me a while to get to that point because I only write a few pages every week or two, but you have inspired me. I am totally going to dedicate my day tomorrow to writing as much as humanly possible. It should be interesting to see how far I get.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
This is all very exciting!! You know what? Send me what you have so far. I will figure out a way to distribute it. Hard deadline for the whole thing is going to have to be May 28. That will give me a chance to figure out distribution & at least some kids a chance to read & respond before the last day of school (June 8).
Send attachments or whatever to liz3blue at gmail dot com.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'll send by tomorrow night. I'm planning to crank out a significant amount between now and tomorrow night. It's still in rough shape, needs some editing, but if I can finish it soon, hopefully a round of editing will smooth it out some.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Emails have been sent out to everyone who requested a copy with the most recent version I have.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: It's always good to see people writing, so I wholeheartedly approve your experiment, Lyr.
I'm right in the middle of writing a YA science fiction novel, myself. I think I'm at about 140 pages (33,000 words, roughly, if I remember right). It has taken me a while to get to that point because I only write a few pages every week or two, but you have inspired me. I am totally going to dedicate my day tomorrow to writing as much as humanly possible. It should be interesting to see how far I get.
So how far did you get?
And out of curiosity, what font or page size are you using that gets you 140 pages from 33,000 words? I have 60 pages from 31,000 words using the standard Word settings.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Bookman Old Style, 12 point font. I'm also using double space, which is standard for a manuscript.
What are you using?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Plain old single spaced, 12 pt Times New Roman.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Well that's why. Make sure you switch to double spaced. Most manuscripts are double.
I chose Bookman Old Style because I personally think it looks more professional. I got the idea from OSC, who also uses it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I'm a fan of Bookman Old Style as well. It does take slightly more space than TNR, although the spacing is certainly more of an issue for page count.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
With that format, I'm up to 122 pages. I think it's handy for gauging my page count under more realistic publishing circumstances. In other words, if I was going to publish an actual book from my manuscript, it wouldn't be with tiny single spaced font on an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet of paper. So this tells me where I'm at.
But it's still pretty awkward to look at and write in. 12 point BOS is just huge. It also means I have to scroll a lot to read anything more than a paragraph or two at a time. I think I'll stick to my old reliable formatting, but if I ever actually send this out to anywhere, in a different fantasy world where I try to get published, I'll change the format.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Leaving for vacation tomorrow, and I plan to bring a laptop with me to continue writing. I'm up to 38,000 words and ten chapters.
Slow and steady progress.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
About 15 kids now have copies of the first part. Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Hey Lyr, wasn't this supposed to be like a 4 day project?
Not trying to rag on you, it seemed an insanely ambitious attempt. Just curious. I know you changed it to 4 nonconsecutive days earlier... did you abandon that plan?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah, it does seem that the initial premise is well and truly busted.
Still would be cool if a finished work was produced though .
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yep. The initial plan failed entirely. I was actually just talking to SteveRogers about this the other day.
It started out really well actually. I was writing about 15,000 words in a HALF day. Over two half day sessions I wrote something like 25,000 words, but I've lost track of how many hours I've spent on it now. After those first two writing sessions I really thought I could do it, but after that the writing broke down to an hour here and an hour there and I lost all track of time. I have no idea how long I've actually spent on it now.
Still...we're working on it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: About 15 kids now have copies of the first part.
Out of curiosity, what medium did you distribute it on? I can't imagine you printed 15 copies.
Also, do you meet as a class to discuss it?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Yep. The initial plan failed entirely. I was actually just talking to SteveRogers about this the other day.
It started out really well actually. I was writing about 15,000 words in a HALF day. Over two half day sessions I wrote something like 25,000 words, but I've lost track of how many hours I've spent on it now. After those first two writing sessions I really thought I could do it, but after that the writing broke down to an hour here and an hour there and I lost all track of time. I have no idea how long I've actually spent on it now.
Still...we're working on it.
That's understandable. I've never found that pace to be very sustainable. Awesome when you can manage it, though.
Doesn't matter, as long as you guys push through! So keep it up. We're all rooting for you. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I sent it to most of the kids as an email attachment. One doesn't have internet access, so I actually printed him a copy. I changed it to 11 point font first, which is still pretty readable and saved 10+ pages.
We don't have a specific plan for discussion yet, but we'll definitely figure one out before the end of the school year. They're pretty excited to be able to give feedback.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm really interested in what their feedback is. If you could set up some sort of...I don't know, either videotaping your group discussion, or have them write reviews or something, I'd love to hear what they have to say.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: This is all very exciting!! You know what? Send me what you have so far. I will figure out a way to distribute it. Hard deadline for the whole thing is going to have to be May 28. That will give me a chance to figure out distribution & at least some kids a chance to read & respond before the last day of school (June 8).
Send attachments or whatever to liz3blue at gmail dot com.
I'm afraid I've missed the deadline.
Between moving back to Detroit for the summer and my vacation in South Dakota, I lost a couple weeks and never really got back on track. I'm settled in and getting back into writing now, but they'll never have a chance to read the second half before your semester ends now.
So let me ask generally: Are they interested in what they've read so far to the point where they even want to read the second half? Would you like me to email you in a couple weeks (hopefully) when I have the second half done so they can read it just to find out what happens, and then maybe they can email feedback to you on what they think? Or would you just like a brief five or ten page synopsis of what happens through the end of the story just so they can see how it ends but without reading it?
Apologies for leaving you all hanging, this writing a novel in a few days or even weeks thing ended up being a challenge indeed, much more so than I thought it would be. And yet, I've accomplished much more than I ever have before on a single project, so it's been an illuminating experience for me as a writer.
But let me know what you, and they, want to do.
I should also add that I'm highly interested in their feedback on the story. Any medium you'd like to employ to get what they have to say to me would be much appreciated. I'd love to actually see video of a class discussion, but I'd also be happy to read email comments or brief write-ups or whatever they'd like to say and have me read.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
So despite missing the deadline for a finished product, I have been plodding along with this.
I'm up to 45K words of continuous story, plus another 5K or so in half-written chapters. I spent the last month on a big re-write of the second half of the book and now I'm pushing forward with a new goal of finishing before the end of the summer.
Liz if you see this, I'm still curious as to how the kids received the half they read, and if they were wanting to read any more of it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Up to almost 60K words and I like to think I'm on pace to finish by the end of the summer as planned (well, my second plan). I have a few more half-written chapters and firm plans for how the rest will go, so for the first time in a few months of struggling, I don't feel like I'm walking through quicksand to move forward.
It's actually starting to look like a real book!
My original goal was a roughly 70,000 word novel, but as things stand, I think I'm going to be closer to 100,000 by the end, and that's before major revisions, which I'll tackle in the fall.
Work continues!
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
You didn't mention the possible sequel. Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Do you feel like it's a rough draft, or is this pretty finished stuff? Just curious how you've been handling the underlying structure of it as you go.
I've written 60K words in a rough draft but I found myself skimming over so many holes and leaving so many loose ends that it was ridiculously unreadable. So now I'm working through a fairly in-depth outline to fill in the holes and make the elements easier to tweak before I begin actually writing the next draft.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: You didn't mention the possible sequel.
I actually have ideas for a couple of sequels, as you know. I originally scripted out a pretty loose arc of three novels, but in writing the last few chapters, I think there actually needs to be four, but the extra book could be written as a series of short stories rather than as a part of the linear arc.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Do you feel like it's a rough draft, or is this pretty finished stuff? Just curious how you've been handling the underlying structure of it as you go.
I've written 60K words in a rough draft but I found myself skimming over so many holes and leaving so many loose ends that it was ridiculously unreadable. So now I'm working through a fairly in-depth outline to fill in the holes and make the elements easier to tweak before I begin actually writing the next draft.
It's a pretty solid draft so far. There are no breaks or holes in the narrative. I do have probably another 10-15K words in partially written chapters and snippets, but I don't count them until the narrative catches up to them and they can be properly slotted into place.
There's going to be a lot of tweaking when I take my second pass at it. As of now, I'm mostly focused on getting the plot down so it all makes sense, and a majority of the dialogue. There are some sections where things move too fast and I'm going to have to add in material to slow the pace, and I'm also going to have to add in a couple character building moments here and there, as well as some style elements. For example, I already know I need to add a chapter at the beginning. The introduction is brief and the main characters are thrown into the action before I really feel like the reader has a chance to know who they were before things get going.
I normally start with a pretty in-depth plot outline. Of course, it wouldn't be much fun if there weren't surprises, so things definitely deviate from the plan, but I still start with one. I rarely have "Okay, what happens next?" problems. Most of my blocks come from transitions, how to get from one element to the next. A lot of those will need tightening up in the next draft.
I do edit a lot as I go. As I write new chapters I go back a few and reread to make sure they fit, but I also end up making a lot of little tweaks when I spot things. I've also done a couple of major re-writes of a couple chapters. I've also done a couple of big rewrites when I've discovered something about a character that changed all their previous appearances. That's happened twice now, where I wrote scenes for characters based on them being one way, and I had to go back and change their demeanor and actions based on how they developed later.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I've been trying to edit as much as his stuff as we go, so we can keep a clearer idea of where the narrative is going as it progresses. And we've kept in contact pretty regurarly for brainstorming sessions.
Though, my ability to contribute has waned in the past few weeks due to a variety of factors.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Still, it's about six thousand percent better with SteveRogers editing than it would have been without.
Just about every major and many minor rewrite I've done has come either as a result of a brainstorming session I had with him, or from comments and criticisms he's made after reading it. It's been a remarkably productive collaborative process.
I don't know how people write good novels without help.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I imagine most published novelists would tell you they didn't write a good novel without help.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Fair point.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like to work with a professional editor? What exactly do they do and what is the process like?
(No offense to SR, who is an excellent editing partner)
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
For anyone interested or following along...
This weekend I'm going to try to race to the finish and complete the novel! I have five more chapters planned (given my track record, that probably means seven or eight will actually be written), which means, on average, probably about another 19,000 words, though almost 10,000 of those are already written in really rough shape, I just need to piece some things together.
I took a break from writing after my last update here, so I haven't written in about two weeks, but my semester starts on Monday, and I need to focus on school work right out of the gate, which means this takes a back burner position for a few months, except when I have free time (if that actually happens).
But I wanted to finish this draft before the end of summer, and since summer ends, for me, on Monday, I have two days to finish. Wish me luck!
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Good luck, Lyrhawn. I'm battling through my own novel at the moment.
quote:Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like to work with a professional editor? What exactly do they do and what is the process like?
I don't, but I have a friend who's a professional copyeditor who occaisionally takes a look at my work and he adds home made cookies to my already rather large tab (we live in different countries so the debt is mounting). He doesn't normally edit fiction. What I get from him is clarity of sentence structure and meaning. He picks up on ideas/phrases I think are clear but really aren't. He also picks up on things like repeated and overused words and structures, mis-use of grammar, missing words etc.
He generally uses the editing tool in Word to tag and comment on my faults.
What he does not do necessarily is provide structural suggestions, but that may be just him.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I'm interested to see what you will have added/changed since last we discussed this.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
So am I.
I'm staring at a file of chapter outlines, a file with our brainstorming notes, a file with chapter snippets of half-written chapters and conversations, and a few hastily hand-written pages of ideas that are barely legible because I wrote them all at night in the dark while half asleep.
Hm...
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I've been trying to edit as much as his stuff as we go, so we can keep a clearer idea of where the narrative is going as it progresses. And we've kept in contact pretty regurarly for brainstorming sessions.
Though, my ability to contribute has waned in the past few weeks due to a variety of factors.
I'm quite relieved to hear that Lyr is getting help, as I volunteered to edit it, and then life SO got in the way and had to retract my offer. Thanks for filling shoes I prematurely offered to fill Steve.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
SteveRogers was always going to help me write it, but we decided to move his writing portion to the hypothetical second novel, so his role sort of shifted to collaborative brainstorming partner and structural editor.
The hardcore, nuts and bolts editing is still ahead of us.
I think at some point we're going to have to turn it over to a professional if we get serious enough about it.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like to work with a professional editor? What exactly do they do and what is the process like?
(No offense to SR, who is an excellent editing partner)
I don't, but my husband is an author and I've seen the process from my perspective. Mind you, this is with in house editors - ie editors with the publisher once the publishing contract has been signed. I would be very, very, wary of freelance editors.
Professional editors pick up sloppy writing - show not tell seems to be a big part of it (ie avoid the big expositional scenes) - but anything where the writing gets in the way of the story. That can be as trivial as repeated words (most writers have a word or phrase they overuse without realizing). Good editors will also check for consistency (both within the story and in it's context - ie do the character names work for the time period?).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've found having a least a couple exposition scenes is unavoidable in my novel. I keep them rather short and very well spaced out so the plot unfolds over the course of the entire story, "show don't tell" sometimes ends up being an unwieldly and complicated piece of advice. Sometimes it's faster, easier, and better to just say something, rather than spending twice or three times as long to try and hint at it or demonstrate it.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
For the most part, I think we've been able to tighten up the writing to avoid exposition as much as possible.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Close to the finish line now. I've added a lot in the last month since I posted.
I'm down to the final one or two chapters. Now I'm just trying to keep it under 100,000 words.
I think this will probably be finished in the next week, since it really is (finally) down to the last chapter, and a mostly written epilogue.
I'm also going to renew my request/offer to let anyone who is willing to read it. It'll probably be available in about two weeks. I'm figuring a week to finish, and a week to do some editing that I already have planned.
Your services will be appreciated. In the fantasy world where I actually get published (hah), you might even find your name in thank you page.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I'd be happy to read it. I'm mechanicalman at gmail. What level of critique are you looking for, if any?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Congrats on nearing the end of an actual book-length novel!
I don't have a huge amount of time in the next couple of months and I'm not an editor by any means, but I'd be happy to read it (or as much of it as I have time to read) and give some feedback. My email's in my profile.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not so much looking for copyediting, as I already know there are grammar issues and little things like that throughout (it is a first draft after all), and I plan on doing a fair bit of editing that'll probably make that sort of editing moot anyway.
I guess I'm interested in bigger, general questions:
Do you even like it? Does it hold your interest? What do you particularly like or not like? Does the story itself make sense, what is confusing? Are the characters interesting, what would you like to see less or more of? Is the writing engaging or just terrible?
It IS a first draft manuscript, so some of the prose might be a little threadbare in places where more style and effort will be required in editing, but I'm not sure if I have the perspective to pick up on what's just plain awful writing since I've been working on it closely for seven months.
With this draft, I mostly want to make sure the story is down, makes sense, is actually entertaining, and the characters are mostly developed (or rather, are in the process of being developed) and as a reader you connect with or like them.
What holes there are in those aspects will be fixed with our first round of editing, and I'll also start to look seriously as style issues to make it much prettier.
In other words, an overall critique on everything.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm pleased to announce that after several long delays, I've finally finished a complete first draft of my novel. What was originally planned as a 70,000 word book topped out at 109,382 words. I'm sure editing will cull a lot of the fat from that, but we'll see.
So, AFR and Bella Bee, if your offer to read is still good, I'd love to send this draft to you with the same guidelines I posted above. I just need a really solid close reading on just about every aspect you're willing to take the time to critique. If you want to put comments in the text in a different color font, or use Word comment feature, or something else, that's fine. Anything would be helpful.
I know it has some rough spots, some thin area that need buffing up, spots where the style is sparse, and still others where the language is probably overwrought when I got carried away. Just point out anything that catches your attention.
And if anyone else is willing to read and will have the time over the next couple weeks, please feel free to volunteer. I appreciate it.
Thanks! And hooray!
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Sure. Send it my way. I'm still more than willing to go through it for you. Hopefully my reading will be of some help. Congratulations on finishing up the draft!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent. Thank you!
This is the part where people can start saying, "Weird, I always thought that Lyrhawn guy was pretty well-spoken, but this is just a pile of crap."
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Received. I'll get to work!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Please also resend it to me as well.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Lyrhawn: While I really enjoyed the overall premise of your short novella, "Doom: Repercussions of Evil" I have to say I feel it is too short to qualify for a nano project. While there was a good enough introduction for the tragic protagonist John Stalvern much of the resolution is hazy and unclear and it is too vague to really be compelling in terms of outlying Stalvern's fall. How did Cernel Joson know what had happened to Stalvern? Is Cernel a name or a rank? How does a radio 'crackered?'
Still, B+
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I'm pleased to announce that after several long delays, I've finally finished a complete first draft of my novel. What was originally planned as a 70,000 word book topped out at 109,382 words. I'm sure editing will cull a lot of the fat from that, but we'll see.
So, AFR and Bella Bee, if your offer to read is still good, I'd love to send this draft to you with the same guidelines I posted above. I just need a really solid close reading on just about every aspect you're willing to take the time to critique. If you want to put comments in the text in a different color font, or use Word comment feature, or something else, that's fine. Anything would be helpful.
I know it has some rough spots, some thin area that need buffing up, spots where the style is sparse, and still others where the language is probably overwrought when I got carried away. Just point out anything that catches your attention.
And if anyone else is willing to read and will have the time over the next couple weeks, please feel free to volunteer. I appreciate it.
Thanks! And hooray!
I will admit that I'm a sucker for some YA novels.... Too many Goosebumps books as a child.
I would like to give it a read if you don't mind. I'll throw it on my Kindle and go to town
If you would like my email is my Hatrack username at gmail.
Since my in-laws are here in the country visiting and I don't speak Albanian, I find myself with quite a bit of free time right now.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
After this week I will have tons of free time. I'd love to look over your work. I can't promise top-tier criticism, but I can always write my thoughts.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Absolutely, send it over, I'd love to read it - and I'll try to give whatever feedback I can in as much detail as possible.
I have two crazy weeks ahead of me at work, but then hopefully over the holidays and into January I'll have a lot more time.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
You could always ask Icarus for input. He and his wife Cor have won several major awards down here, and are currently shopping completed books with the help of their agents. They aren't published, yet, but they are as close to it as you can be without actually publishing something...
About the differences in processes, anyway. I am not sure they have time to proofread or anything that time consuming, as they are both teachers as well as promising writers. But I bet he would have some ideas in general. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent to Bella Bee, Geraine and Blayne. Let me know if anyone wants a file type different from a PDF.
T:Man is up next.
Kwea - Yeah, I thought about pestering Scott R as well, since I thought he had some actual publication experience. But I'm a combination of apprehensive of asking people that much better than me, for fear of devastating rejection, and don't want to bug too many people I know I really busy. Maybe after I get some initial feedback so I can fix the big stuff, so he doesn't have to wade through so much crap?
I don't mind pestering all of you. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I'm technically published, but not in such a way that it renders unto me any special ability or skill in critique. I can't promise I'll be able to come up with the time, but since it would cost you nothing to e-mail it to me and since I'm willing to try to come up with the time, you can send it to me if you like. My screenname, with a period between the words, at gmail. Or my janitor account here is still active.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent to T:Man and Papa Moose as PDF.
I don't expect anyone to be an expert, and frankly maybe it's better if you aren't. It's written for regular readers, so getting realistic feedback from people who would hypothetically read it is fantastic for the moment. Any thoughts you might have, whether I agree with them or not, will be helpful.
For anyone who is pressed for time, if you want to read a couple chapters at a time and send me your thoughts, it might prove easier for both of us. That way I can start cracking away at the first few chapters, and you won't feel the pressure to complete the whole thing quickly. But whatever works best for each of you is fine with me.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I should also ask if anyone wants me to reformat it to something more readable?
It's currently in single spaced Times New Roman 12 point font.
If something else would be easier to read for those I went it to in PDF form, or for the sake of commenting, let me know and I'll change it.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Congrats bro!
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
I'd love to take a look. My e-mail is my handle at hotmail.
Thanks. I'm looking forward to it.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
If you want, I could take a look at it. Fiction writing isn't technically my thing, but like everyone else here, I can claim the qualification of having read a lot . And it gives me another excellent way to procrastinate writing my dissertation. I think you have my email, but let me know if not.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not sure what I did with your email. I think I had it saved on my old gmail account, but I lost that after I graduated. Can you either make it known here, or email me at "a h hobart at gmail"? No spaces between the words and letters.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
I got it. Thanks. I'll pull it down to the ipad and start reading.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If I've missed anyone who wants a copy, let me know.
Otherwise, if anyone would like to throw out random comments, with appropriate spoiler alerts, I'd love to see a discussion start here. Or you can feel free to email me comments however you see fit.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
Not sure how I've missed this thread up until now. Lyrhawn, I'd love to read your draft. Could you send it as anything but a pdf? Then I can convert to an ebook more easily.
I just realized this is my second post all year. Wow.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sent you a copy Miro. I'm honored to bring you out of pseudo retirement. I hope you enjoy it. Feel free to post comments here or email me when you get to reading it. No rush. I've got editing in the back of my mind, but I'm not going to touch it for at least a week, maybe more.
Now that I've finally finished, I feel like I need a good two week vacation to let it sit before I tackle it again.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hey everyone.
Just wondering if anyone has managed to make any progress and how you're all doing with it. I know it's only been two weeks since I sent it out, so no pressure, just curious to see if anyone has some thoughts they'd like to share or anything. I've already had one person get all the way through it with some very helpful feedback.
I look forward to hearing from the rest of you.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I'm enjoying it, but as I said before I don't have a lot of time until next week, so I've only got to chapter 4.
Hopefully this weekend or at some point next week I'll be able to start sending some feedback - as I say, I like it so far.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
No pressure! You can read at your own pace with whatever time you have.
I'm just curious to see how people are making their way through it. Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Thanks for the reminder.
Check your email!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Thank you kind sir, much appreciated!
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Still going. Enjoying the novel so far!
I can send you what I've reviewed so far if you want, but I plan to go back through and add more comments once I've read through the whole thing.
Aside from the first half of the first chapter, it's been pretty smooth reading and quite entertaining.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Still going. Enjoying the novel so far!
I can send you what I've reviewed so far if you want, but I plan to go back through and add more comments once I've read through the whole thing.
Aside from the first half of the first chapter, it's been pretty smooth reading and quite entertaining.
Whichever way you like is fine. If you want to send me what you have so far I'll look at it now and work it into my editing notes, and then I can go back later and read whatever comments you add in. But I don't want to stifle your process, so whatever works best for you is fine for me.
Most of all, I'm glad you're enjoying it (sans the first couple chapters, which I agree have their rough parts).
Posted by happymann (Member # 9559) on :
I didn't realize this was done and my world-class lurking missed it at the top of the page. Can I have a copy to peruse?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by happymann: I didn't realize this was done and my world-class lurking missed it at the top of the page. Can I have a copy to peruse?
Sent to the email address in your profile. Enjoy.
Posted by happymann (Member # 9559) on :
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