This is topic Do it. DO IT. Yesterday is, tomorrow, or .. something? DOOO ITTT, dreams? DO IT. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
you are all jerks. topic is also sexually related as i have mentioned sex. vishnu is also a jerk.

i just violated the TOS multiple times, discuss

[ June 07, 2015, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I said discuss. don't make me keep throwing in controversial things just to keep this place lively
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
*offended silence*
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
*offended silence*

I'm warning you. I got stuff lined up, man
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
I don't remember throwing to be mentioned in the TOS, therefore it is not controversial enough to keep any thread alive let alone this string. Sorry.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
is there nothing controversial enough to get you guys to start posting more than 4 combined posts a day

wait i know
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hey everyone, I was just sort of wondering if we could discuss circumcision today. The question i really want to ask is: is it mutilation? Or barbaric mutilation? I feel this question is pretty important to ask on behalf of all the men who really need to have it stressed on behalf of them that they are broken by a procedure they had inflicted on them by children. Furthermore, I think you should all read this comic book featuring "Monster Mohel," an entirely not at all anti-Semitic portrayal of a villain. I am not advocating taking away choice, I'm just saying that this is an additional benefit to actually just letting the south secede this time: you can go be circumcised there and it's not our problem. The issue is that nobody else will take the south, because it's really pretty terrible.

Anyway hey I figured at this point I should start doing a puppet show designed to represent Israel vs. Palestine. Puppet Meir Kahane and Puppet Noam Chomsky are going to involve themselves in a lively puppet discussion and hopefully make both sides seem incredibly terrible. Midway through it both will decide that bean counter's radio tag collar tracking idea for iraqi civilians can really easily be adapted to the zionist slash brown person problem.

Lastly, we need to discuss how readily China's military is awesome and their jets in particular are pretty awesome and not at all horrid and mothballed.

/edit - ron paul is still in the race and stands an excellent chance of a dark horse win in the primary
 
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
The Mcrib is only on sale for a short time.
 
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
 
Greedo shot first.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
The Mcrib is only on sale for a short time.

meat is murder
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Attempts to be controversial are so scene. *sarcastic sneer* [Big Grin]
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
The Mcrib is only on sale for a short time.

meat is murder
The McRib doesn't qualify as meat.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
...touche
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
I'd rather talk about gay marriage, abortion, the merits of anime, and whether a knight or a samurai would win in a fight. Maybe all at once? Maybe THEN anime would be worth watching (other than Studio Ghibli).
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
Attempts to be controversial are so scene. *sarcastic sneer* [Big Grin]

http://i.imgur.com/yTt0s.gif
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
This thread is over. It's so over!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Did you just Tom Hanks me? You just Tom Hanks-ed me.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
did you just verb hanks?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
This gay marriage thing, we should just let ONLY gays marry. Hear me out on this one,
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
something something heteronormative something

you know, Mormonism should be PROUD not to be christianity. I mean at this point it is inarguable that the catholic church is based on and can be solely defined by rape. Who wants to be associated with that?? No, crazy gold tablets no coffee religion is free of that taint.

::eagletearsalute.gif::
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
did you just verb hanks?

I've been Tom Hanks-ed, and I take offense, sir. I challenge you to a duel.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
I challenge you to a duel.
gif-off.

http://i.imgur.com/s3oEx.gif
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
Hmmmm......

What if... a gay samurai, fought an aborted knight... and they both started screaming until their hair pointed straight up and turned bright yellow? all while My Neighbor Totoro watched.

This would either break the internet or the poorly MS paint image would become a meme. I'm okay with either at this point.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
En garde!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
En garde!

http://i.imgur.com/fQa76.gif
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Have at thee!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0hs5riEmS1ro21wao1_400.gif
 
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
This gay marriage thing, we should just let ONLY gays marry. Hear me out on this one,

Nah. But it should be mandatory for wives to have a gay boyfriend. My wife's gay friend takes her to Ikea, clothes shopping, all that crap.
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwvA1UZgq8
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Parry!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1rfpddOr01qhlwexo1_250.gif
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
'tis only a flesh wound!
 
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
I want in!
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
I will fight always for freedom!
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I feel this question is pretty important to ask on behalf of all the men who really need to have it stressed on behalf of them that they are broken by a procedure they had inflicted on them by children.

... What.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/284/356/679.gif
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
The Mcrib is only on sale for a short time.

meat is murder
The McRib doesn't qualify as meat.
It wasn't until this post that I realized we were talking about the McDonald's sandwich, and not some sort of specialized crib.

Thinking it was a specific brand of crib made me read Sam's comment in a very different light.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/J1nrI.gif
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Does it count as a gif if the only movement is a bit of annoying screen shaking?
 
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
 
it's supposed to be 3D.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
Does it count as a gif if the only movement is a bit of annoying screen shaking?

http://i.imgur.com/Svnm9.gif
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I feel this question is pretty important to ask on behalf of all the men who really need to have it stressed on behalf of them that they are broken by a procedure they had inflicted on them by children.

... What.
Ha! I missed that at first. I think some hot fudge sundae just came out of my nose.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Death blow!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/huIy6.gif
 
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
meat is murder

tasty, tasty murder.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
it's supposed to be 3D.

Yeah I see it now, not sure how I missed that before. That's kind of neat!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
jerks
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
jerks
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
oh my god this day will not end
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Pity those of us in time zones behind yours.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
My work day is just starting.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I'm working from home today!

Translation: I'm not working today!
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I hate you both.

[Note to Dan, who sometimes takes things I say too seriously: Not really.]
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Today has been really long for me too. I don't know why today feels so long in particular.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
I hate you both.

[Note to Dan, who sometimes takes things I say too seriously: Not really.]

Oh thank goodness. You had me worried for a moment there!
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I go without internet access for about 10 hours, and this is what happens?
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Surely, this must be the best part of your position here? [Smile]
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
I'm working from home today!

Translation: I'm not working today!

I work from home most days, even more so now that the semester is over. Now I just need to proctor a test next week and finish up some papers, then it's the good times for the summer.

Except not. Stupid grad school and having to actually do work in the summer.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I go without internet access for about 10 hours, and this is what happens?

Didn't Sam make this post specifically because of your comment on SR?

Or are you just lamenting that you haven't been able to join in until now?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I go without internet access for about 10 hours, and this is what happens?

Didn't Sam make this post specifically because of your comment on SR?

Or are you just lamenting that you haven't been able to join in until now?

I posted about it here too actually. [Smile]
 
Posted by happymann (Member # 9559) on :
 
I saw this thread and thought someone renamed this thread.
 
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
that would've been a great adjacent thread title submission.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
This thread just proves what I've suspected for a long time: We're all just figments of Sam's imagination here for his entertainment.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I go without internet access for about 10 hours, and this is what happens?

Don't you dare be gone the next time work is boring, then
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I go without internet access for about 10 hours, and this is what happens?

Don't you dare be gone the next time work is boring, then
You could have come on this trip, win-win.

We're gonna find gold in them hills!
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
dabbler FTW!


(BACON)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
regional manager: *walks by desk*
regional manager: um
regional manager: what are you doing
sam: i'm watching big bang theory
regional manager: at your desk
sam: yes
regional manager: at work
sam: yes
regional manager: we need to talk.
sam: why.
regional manager: why are you watching big bang theory
sam: i don't know! it's terrible!
regional manager: you could be watching like anything else
sam: i already ran out of parks and rec
regional manager: 30 rock?
sam: burned out
regional manager: yeah but .. big bang theory?
sam: i know - what am i doing
regional manager: community?
sam: oh come on
regional manager: watched every episode?
sam: yes of course
regional manager: good
regional manager: but seriously
regional manager: big bang theory
sam: don't judge me
regional manager: i'm going to write you up
sam: we don't do writeups
regional manager: we do now
regional manager: writeups for watching big bang theory
sam: oh come on
regional manager: first offense is verbal warning
regional manager: second offense is a clockwork orange style forced viewing of actually good tv
regional manager: human resources will approve it
regional manager: it's big bang theory
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
This thread just proves what I've suspected for a long time: We're all just figments of Sam's imagination here for his entertainment.

I knew there was something familiar about Sam.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i live on a planet orbiting kolob, so this supports the theory.
 
Posted by happymann (Member # 9559) on :
 
I don't care what anyone else says. He'll always be Samp to me.
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by happymann:
I don't care what anyone else says. He'll always be Samp to me.

*high-fives*
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Whatever, happym. Whatever, rivk.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Ooh, can I be JonB?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Jo Nboy, actually
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Yes!
 
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
I don't care what anyone else says. He'll always be Samp to me.

Are you saying that Sam1 is really Samp0?
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Danf Rank? Eugh.

Da Nfrank is just unpronounceable.

Although this does remind me that anagrams of my name can be rather amusing. Fran Dank would be a great pen name for a shlocky horror series, I think.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by happymann:
I don't care what anyone else says. He'll always be Samp to me.

I also want to high five this.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
hahahahahahahaha

danf rank
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
hallo. i am danf rank. is traditcional name in old cultuore. am most unfartuonatley named man in univearse.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Samprany of Orincolo is still the most iconic name to ever come out of this place.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
And I still have a giant hat.
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
With a feather?
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
hallo. i am danf rank. is traditcional name in old cultuore. am most unfartuonatley named man in univearse.

[ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL]
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
liberalism is a mental disease; adolescent punks who never grow up past mommie and daddy issues who still beg for someone to pay for everything with the exclamation, "Its not FAIR!"
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Has it been 5 months already?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
To be fair, the refractory period is built right into his username.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
liberalism is a mental disease; adolescent punks who never grow up past mommie and daddy issues who still beg for someone to pay for everything with the exclamation, "Its not FAIR!"

And it comes along with an innate ability to sense idiocy. [Smile]

So, tell us, do you find that announcing that political opposition amounts to mental disease is helpful to you as an argumentative tactic? If not, why not?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Orincoro, Occasional is a troll. Ignore the heck out of him, please.
 
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
 
Is there a handy reference guide, because I'm losing track of who's a troll and who's just outspoken...
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
To be fair, the refractory period is built right into his username.

Yeah, but it can be anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple years.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
yes

YES

quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
liberalism is a mental disease; adolescent punks who never grow up past mommie and daddy issues who still beg for someone to pay for everything with the exclamation, "Its not FAIR!"

THANK GOD YOU ARE HERE. I'm sorry if you are still having trouble finding an isolated mormon compound to live on, but at least that gives us more of a chance to chat. I have been longing to ask you how your views on the likely post-US ethnoreligious american fracture and balkanization have changed over time. In your new estimation, will hyperconservative mormons such as yourself still control only about 1/5th of former American land holdings as a fundamentalist deseret theocracy, or do your new estimations show that you will end up controlling even more when secular america collapses. Also I genuinely want an explanation on what kind of dress code for females this mormon theocracy will legally enforce. There are so many details I want to ask about. Genuine questions. For realsies. Not joking.
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
To be fair, the refractory period is built right into his username.

Okay, that brought me my first solid laugh of the day.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
yes

YES

quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
liberalism is a mental disease; adolescent punks who never grow up past mommie and daddy issues who still beg for someone to pay for everything with the exclamation, "Its not FAIR!"

THANK GOD YOU ARE HERE. I'm sorry if you are still having trouble finding an isolated mormon compound to live on, but at least that gives us more of a chance to chat. I have been longing to ask you how your views on the likely post-US ethnoreligious american fracture and balkanization have changed over time. In your new estimation, will hyperconservative mormons such as yourself still control only about 1/5th of former American land holdings as a fundamentalist deseret theocracy, or do your new estimations show that you will end up controlling even more when secular america collapses. Also I genuinely want an explanation on what kind of dress code for females this mormon theocracy will legally enforce. There are so many details I want to ask about. Genuine questions. For realsies. Not joking.
Sam, may I ask for your blessing to marry this post?
 
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
To be fair, the refractory period is built right into his username.

refractory period - the recovery phase after orgasm during which it is physiologically impossible for an individual to have additional orgasms

I guess some people's reactions to his posts are different from others'.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Bio time: That is one specific type of refractory period. The male oxytocinal post-orgasmic refractory period. The term 'refractory period' is not specifically limited to that, and includes many such stimuli-based response downtimes throughout physiology and psychology

na na na naaaaaaa

quote:
Sam, may I ask for your blessing to marry this post?
It has to be a group wedding so I can have vows exchanged for both you and the other married post. [Frown]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
See this is a really for real serious thing. I do, legitimately, want a long-term session of questions with Occasional to figure out the real picture of what he wants for a deseret nation and how he expects it to come to be. There are SO many questions, because the image of what the right and proper new mormon nation is going to be. We know some snippets, such as to what extent divorce is going to be disallowed shy of abuse, and more importantly we know that Occasional has given the a-ok for state-sanctioned torture and that anything, including cutting off a prisoner's genitals, is alright for the purposes of extracting military information. So Occasional's deseret would have torture camps. But this still tells us so little about his vision of theocracy and to what extent it would be modeled, as he described, on the lessons of saudi arabian society, and "true" mormonism. I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE IT ITS FAIR CHANCE TO BE DESCRIBED IN FULL WITHOUT ERROR.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:

quote:
Sam, may I ask for your blessing to marry this post?
It has to be a group wedding so I can have vows exchanged for both you and the other married post. [Frown]
I'm not opposed.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
jerks
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
: golfclap :
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/JmPA8.png
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
Okay, that made me laugh.
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
It's the bow on top of the veil that really sells it.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
liberalism is a mental disease; adolescent punks who never grow up past mommie and daddy issues who still beg for someone to pay for everything with the exclamation, "Its not FAIR!"

I'm certain the democratic institutions that evolved from the Liberal tradition will disagree with you.

Or are you some kind of proto fascist who feels that the state should hold all of the power and it was a mistake to grant black people the vote?
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Blayne, people like Occasional don't recognize any meaning of the word "liberal" beyond a direct synonym for "leftist" or maybe, if they're feeling saucy, "socialist." Sad but true.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Don't listen to the haters occasional!! I trust in your future!!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
you are a .... houseguest of the chantry?
 
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
Blayne, people like Occasional don't recognize any meaning of the word "liberal" beyond a direct synonym for "leftist" or maybe, if they're feeling saucy, "socialist." Sad but true.

Depending on what you mean by "direct synonym", "liberal" does mean leftist. (Like "conservative" means "right-wing".)

The word "liberal" has different connotations now than it did back in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I once had a very interesting argument with a very interesting communist who pitched a berserker fit if americans on an american forum ever needed clarification with his use of liberal in the classical european sense.

of course he also pitched a berserker fit if we insinuated that north korea's official announcements should be trusted less than, say, the BBC, so
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
Since I want absolutely nothing to do with you Samprimary, you aren't going to get any answers from your silly questions ever. And yes, I am a Troll. At this point trolling is the only worth I give to this sorry excuse for this message board. Orson Scott Card should be ashamed of himself for continuing support of the trash that infested itself here.
 
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
Berserker fits-- you just have to have a good hide skill and patience. When they end, the barbarian is usually worse off, and you can attack them with impunity.

That's what I do!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
zerker exhaustion was a 3e joint, right?

That means the solution to berserker fits was the same as the solution to any other problem in third edition: be a caster class, render all other classes obsolete

in conclusion: DPRK fanboys are playing dud classes, and third edition is terrible.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
Occasional: I strongly recommend you backpedal from embracing that sort of role. Attacking the board and its proprietor are pretty much the fastest route to being suspended and banned. Please calm down.

Samprimary: Please don't bait Occasional. You may think his ideas are worth mocking, but it's not OK to post things to that effect here.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
why am I told not to bait occasional on like the one occasion I am passing up on baiting occasional and am instead talking about third edition dungeons and dragons
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Sam: I'm doing it here because after thinking about it, I should have said something sooner but did not. Occasional got mad here, so I posted here.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i mean if anything occasional is not a melee class, he is more like a non-pathfinder hybrid suffering from MAD.

Which, while problematic, still gives you an easier time at versatile battlefield application as long as you can shore up attribute point deficiencies.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Occasional got mad here, so I posted here.

he 'got' mad ... here? Wait a minute.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
Who said I care about getting suspended here or not? Any views I express are mocked or taken out of context, so "discussion" is a mute point. I come here out of amusement anymore anyway. There is very little I have in common with the posters. Those who have expressed similar thoughts and beliefs have been run out of town. Since I have been treated with garbage then I have no reason not to treat the place like garbage.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
...so "discussion" is a mute point.

moot

This is a mute point:
quote:
.

 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
The problem is that whenever we go look back through time to the arguments which you invariably interpret as being 'treated with garbage,' a pattern emerges — there is a difference of opinion, and you respond in a way which assures people trying to debate fairly with you or hold a different opinion, that you aren't here for open discussion. You want Discussion-Within-Occasional's-Desired-Limits-Of-Nonoffensive-Positions. You, in fact, hate this forum because it PERMITS people to offer views that offend you. You have essentially told people, multiple times, "I am not interested in your position, I in fact wish that people who are not part of a generally conservative opinion were not allowed to have the same rights to publish those opinions here"

And people raise objection to that, usually in strenuously respectful terms, but you honestly have no personal measure of what respectful terms are. Because, for as long as I've seen you post here, you have felt entitled not to equal opinion representation, but to privileged opinion representation. To the extent that you have bizarrely and delusionally advanced and tried to spearhead a 'conservative overthrow' of the forum, and got roundly mocked when this restrictive gesture was not approved of by people who understand that this forum has never been about the kind of 'dialogue' you think it should have or was about.

What you are REALLY saying here is that "this forum has not upheld my arbitrary standards not to have to cohabitate with discussion involving many views I find offensive, and because of that I petulantly have decided to use this as an excuse to hang around and fixate on reminding the forum periodically that I hate it and the people here, with no redeeming purpose to my derogatory whinging."

You are VERY PREDICTABLE. You are, of course, welcome to prove me wrong, sometime, anytime, but since you've been on this bender for a while anyway, I have few hopes.

I'm also very sorry that you want nothing to do with me, but I am glad you still make time to have something to do with me to remind me you want nothing to do with me.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
quote:
Since I want absolutely nothing to do with you Samprimary, you aren't going to get any answers from your silly questions ever. And yes, I am a Troll. At this point trolling is the only worth I give to this sorry excuse for this message board. Orson Scott Card should be ashamed of himself for continuing support of the trash that infested itself here.
And the Lord said unto them, "Yea, my children, if the heathen treats you with iniquity, thou shalt respond with like degrees of hateful spite! Thus saith the God of Israel!"

I've got to admit, Occassional's faith and politics certainly seem to be more fun than mine, or at least more satisfying!
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
But it bugs the heck out of so many of you. How can I bypass that now that I just don't care? As for highjack, your right since I feel liberals long ago highjacked this place that should belong to a more conservative and religious voice considering who is sponsoring it. What is funny, however, is that pretty much the only voices left are the ones that have been here for a very long time and even the number of those is shrinking.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Do you really think this bugs us? This is fun, man. Look, imagine it from your point of view. In your point of view, most of us liberals think you're pretty awful trash, who think in our deluded welfare-loving minds that the things you say are so stupid they're amusing. Like children, we react with childish laughter when you chastise us.

Well, you keep chastising us, and we keep laughing-in your point of view. I can almost flat-out guarantee you that none of the people you think most dislike you are seriously 'bugged' by your attitude. In fact, those same people? I can almost with as much certainty guarantee that they are AMUSED when you go off on these absurd rants.

---

Seriously, though...it's not as though the one sponsoring it is mute. If he wants this forum to represent a certain view, that is up to him, not you. Who exactly do you think you're kidding? Have you heard from Card that he wishes the forum was generally centered on a right-leaning, socially, politically, and religious conservative position? I mean, what, are you reading his mind to know what he thinks this forum ought to be, and thus angry that it's not?

And if you're only doing what you think the forum should reflect given who sponsors it but you don't actually know, or think you know...well, goodness. The mind boggles at that degree of presumption:)
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
But it bugs the heck out of so many of you. How can I bypass that now that I just don't care? As for highjack, your right since I feel liberals long ago highjacked this place that should belong to a more conservative and religious voice considering who is sponsoring it. What is funny, however, is that pretty much the only voices left are the ones that have been here for a very long time and even the number of those is shrinking.

No one said the only people allowed to enjoy the books of Orson Scott Card had to be conservative or subscribe to one religion.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
But it bugs the heck out of so many of you. How can I bypass that now that I just don't care?

Being entertainingly gratified with the ability to demonstrate the hypocrisy and unfair judgment of an openly and uselessly derogatory poster is not something which 'bugs the heck out of me.' This is such a fundamental failure to see obvious character traits in my posting and that should be painfully obvious. the thread is literally even a parody of my joyous capitalization on the opportunity to feast on the kind of drama you like to think you are creating and you just basically walked in here and fed me exactly what I wanted and

i don't

how

*boggle*
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Even if that was the position, I would continue posting here and being critical when I thought it was right to do so of a given conservative position and/or religious one. Part and parcel of that whole American thing, y'know? Pretty much the only thing that would actually stop me, personally, from expressing within-the-rules political and religious ideas here would be a specific request, either to me individually or more generally to the community, from Card himself.

It is after all his forum, he's the one supporting it, and if he really did want the political and religious forum tone shifted to the right, well, no beef, I'd take my ball and go home. Or, well, elsewhere, really. I would think it was a bad decision, but hey, this ain't my little slice of the Internet.

But as for someone else taking up arms, so to speak, on behalf of anger that this forum isn't what they think it should be based on who supports it, especially if they're just guessing...well, to hell with that. I'll mock the hell out of that position, for its absurd self-righteous stupidity, and won't apologize for doing so.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
No one said the only people allowed to enjoy the books of Orson Scott Card had to be conservative or subscribe to one religion.

I said exactly that:
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
the only people allowed to enjoy the books of Orson Scott Card had to be conservative or subscribe to one religion.

http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=027281;p=0&r=nfx
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
We should reform the legal system in the following ways:

• Judges are not appointed, they are voted in, and can be impeached.

• No opposing lawyers, or jury of citizens, but a panel of odd number judges with a pair of impartial investigators/presenters.

• Laws should be rewritten into plain English with a standard, simplified format.

• Representatives should be required to vote on laws (not have the ability to simply skip a vote), and be charged with treason and hanged by the neck until dead if they are proved to receive any bribe or any compensation in exchange for any abuse of power.

• Bills put up for voting should only be for a single law at a time, and not be grouped into pork belly ridden, encyclopedia length, confusing and difficult to understand crap.

Discuss.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I forgot this:

• Laws should include a section on the intent of the law so that they can not be misused or enforced on a strict "letter of the law" interpretation at the cost of justice.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Discuss.

In the distance, a lawyer softly explodes
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
• Laws should be rewritten into plain English with a standard, simplified format.
I think all laws should be written in Shakespearan verse and translated into Klingon.

Discuss.
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Translated BACK into Klingon, you mean. Right?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
4 qaS:
DebDaq taymo' Say'moHtaH yo'a'neS.
'ej yem net noDHa'meH, paywI'pu' Say'moH, 'e' maq.

5 ghaHDaq tlheD yuDay'a Sep Hoch ngan, Hoch ngan je.
yorDa'neS bIQtIqDaq chaH (§ Say'moH 34440 ghaH 4),
yem 'e' luDIStaHvIS.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
Translated BACK into Klingon, you mean. Right?

But of course. And they clearly must remain in Shakespearan verse in Klingon.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I think law should be a dadaist performance art piece televised via simulcast to courtrooms and interpreted in the spur of the moment when deciding a claimant or defendant's fate
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
In Shakespearan Klingon?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
depressing quote of the day

"So I went to plentyoffish.com and discovered the horrors awaiting me. Lots of girls that simply would not do, not even a little bit. Lots of statements saying "I stay within my race," because this is the deep south and people say things like that."
 
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
 
(Post Removed by Janitor Blade. Stop trolling AoS.)

[ May 04, 2012, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Because 'Jewish' is only a race or something, and you're not a baiting jackass?

I suppose it's too much to hope for that you get tagged for what you did, which was assert Armoth is a racist, and get canned for it.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
(Post Edited by Janitor Blade)

shuuuuuuuttttt

uppppppppppppp

baaaaaaaaaaaad

trolllllllllll

[ May 04, 2012, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Man, step away from the boards for a few min and all the good stuff is already edited out by JB! You are too efficient for my fun dude.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
But it bugs the heck out of so many of you. How can I bypass that now that I just don't care? As for highjack, your right since I feel liberals long ago highjacked this place that should belong to a more conservative and religious voice considering who is sponsoring it. What is funny, however, is that pretty much the only voices left are the ones that have been here for a very long time and even the number of those is shrinking.

I'm not kidding Occasional. I can countenance people getting frustrated and going too far, but openly declaring your intent to troll the forums and scuzz it up is pretty much the fastest way to get banned. You aren't the first to do it, we've had posters mention in other places they only post here to stir the pot. They get banned faster than any other kind of poster.

If you don't enjoy interacting here, then don't post here. If you post your opinions respectfully and people troll you, I'll step in for you. But I won't let you attack this forum.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
If you post your opinions respectfully and people troll you, I'll step in for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9U_C_q6WcU

He hasn't stepped in for me.
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Man, step away from the boards for a few min and all the good stuff is already edited out by JB! You are too efficient for my fun dude.

I'm afraid to go to bed now! just wondering what did AoS say?
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
If you post your opinions respectfully and people troll you, I'll step in for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9U_C_q6WcU

He hasn't stepped in for me.

I can't view youtube from work. But you and I both know we are at an impasse on that count. We also both know you are trolling, and have a history of doing it.
 
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
<I chose to remove my own post to avoid stirring the pot anymore than necessary to avoid making BlackBlade's job any harder.>
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I don't think BB has suffered ENOUGH abuse. So I distributed cards to Reddit users inviting them to come discuss Card's latest editorial,
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
That reminds me, I hadn't read it yet. Thanks...at least until the hordes come.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
It is a really bad article but that is really not surprising anymore. No I mean it is really bad. It has factually incorrect things in it which are like five-minutes-to-find-the-correct-information bad.
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
depressing quote of the day

"So I went to plentyoffish.com and discovered the horrors awaiting me. Lots of girls that simply would not do, not even a little bit. Lots of statements saying "I stay within my race," because this is the deep south and people say things like that."

Hey, I read that thread too! E/N is one of my guilty pleasures.

By the way, I want to marry this whole thread instead of just one post. Is it possible for someone to marry a thread when someone has already married a post within that thread? Would I have to marry all the single posts instead?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hang on, as a polyamorist, I will work out the technicalities of open polythreadpostamory
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
Hey, I read that thread too! E/N is one of my guilty pleasures.

pps yes this. yes this is me. e/n is everything. did you wholly ingest the Pixelante thread, that was amazing
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
This is becoming dangerously close to those communes you hear about on TV that the FBI ends up raiding.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Not really, because anyone who shows too much interest is either killed or married off to one of my trafficked asian girlfriends
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Discuss.

In the distance, a lawyer softly explodes

discuss.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 

 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Really?

I don't use indefinite articles. And I don't know the difference between "presumptive" and "presumptuous."
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 

 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
I see, well, that sheds some light on your habit of making broad pointless declarations and then getting huffy when you're laughed at, because I would call that "being assumptive," since I happen to know what that means, and you happen not to.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I love you too.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Stone Wolf: "Than," not "then."

Orincoro: "Fellow forum poster," not "rude jerk."

You're both welcome.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
(Also the thread title is surprisingly accurate right now)
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Thanks Danf!

I never really was clear on when "than" is appropriate over "then"...I'll look it up.

I am a bit confused over your correction of Orincoro, as he never used the words "rude jerk" unless of course you are saying he should act like a "fellow forum poster" and not a...
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I love you too.

I'm changing my relationship status to "oversimplified."
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I tell you what Orincoro, I'm gunna try and really communicate with you. I doubt it will be a fruitful attempt, but for my part, I will try.

From what little I know of you, I suspect you are deeply conflicted person, a single American living abroad as a teacher (my golly I hope you teach adults and not children) inflicting your particular brand of self righteous, bitter, condemning speculation upon whoever you feel you can show up on the net in a vain attempt to convince yourself of your moral/intellectual superiority. Perhaps you find being an antagonist in this safe anonymous venue to release the negative pressure and therefore you can be a sterling human being in real life. I certainly hope so, though I doubt it highly. I suspect instead you suffer from deep seated self worth issues which cause you to constantly attempt to prove your superiority at the expense of others as you are unable or unwilling to address whichever traumatic events caused the real issues.

Now, here is the important part. I don't care. I don't care if the above is accurate or simply armchair physiology mixed with wild imagination on my part. Because the reasons you act the way you act are of no interest to me. Heck, your opinions are pretty much of no interest to me.

Seems odd that I would put time and effort into telling you these things if the above were true, aye? Let me explain.

I am a stay at home dad on unemployment for two small children, ages 2.5 and 1. My wife struggles through working full time, going to school prepping to be an RN and has constant headaches/migraines. I enjoy discussion of ideas, and word play, and books and culture that is Hatrack, it is a place I get to come for "grown up time". My day, while hugely rewarding and fulfilling, is filled with cleaning, cooking, changing diapers, teaching and playing with my children. Rinse and repeat.

My point is that I come here for conversations which ascend from the level of "A is for apple, B is for ball." Or to put it another way, My life is full, and I have no need to prove myself to anyone, let alone someone like yourself for which I have so little respect.

So, feel free to poke fun. I don't mind. I am not fuming on the other side of the screen at your "cutting assessment" of me. I don't care what you think.

You might ask yourself why I would post those thoughts in this particular thread if I wasn't willing to have some fun with the ideas. Of course what you did wasn't friendly, nor fun, it was basically an attempt to bully, although not a very good one. Too many assumptions, too easy to dismiss, as quite a bit of your retorts are.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
The reactor is self-sustaining. The core has warmed up and the thread now generates net drama output off of reactions alone. We no longer need to supply it with anything. Soon, we will online it to the grid. A bright, shining future full of cheap, clean, accessible drama. Enough to power whole forums. Thanks to what we have achieved here, none shall feel beyond drama because of their means. No longer will there be hovels and ghettos where drama exists only as a spectacle and a plaything of others. No child shall want for drama simply because of their upbringing.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
"Now, here is the important part. I don't care. I don't care if the above is accurate or simply armchair physiology mixed with wild imagination on my part. Because the reasons you act the way you act are of no interest to me. Heck, your opinions are pretty much of no interest to me."

The above is rather solid proof of diingenuousness in this statement. Perhaps you are the type to make utterly careless assessments of people's character, and the quality of their personal lives, of which you know little, and assume a great deal which is wrong. I don't, in case you were wishing I would, address you as the person I think you are in your daily life outside of this forum. That kind of presumption goes a great deal beyond the offense I have offered you, which is to address who you are here. I will thank you to do the same. My personal life is not a matter for your speculation, nor material to any discussion I have with you, just as your personal life is not fodder for my speculation. I do not share most of my personal life, and have not for a long time, because I don't see it as your business. I would hope you'd save that kind of crap for a personal message, if it ever needed saying.

Notice: I didn't react to being called names earlier, because I *am* being pompous. I can recognize that. But that didn't hurt my feelings, so you needed to dealve into the decrepit state of my personal life, as you see it. That's such crap, honestly, and its desperate.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The reactor is self-sustaining. The core has warmed up and the thread now generates net drama output off of reactions alone. We no longer need to supply it with anything. Soon, we will online it to the grid. A bright, shining future full of cheap, clean, accessible drama. Enough to power whole forums. Thanks to what we have achieved here, none shall feel beyond drama because of their means. No longer will there be hovels and ghettos where drama exists only as a spectacle and a plaything of others. No child shall want for drama simply because of their upbringing.

The Israelis could always try to take down the forum with a pernicious virus....
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
It was not a disingenuous statement, to let you know what I thought of you, and let you know that ultimately I do not care what you think. That said, I am able to keep my opinions about you to myself. Perhaps you should try and do the same in the future if you wish to maintain a non-personal interaction level.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
As I say, I don't speculated about your personal life. I don't do it because it's an act of unmaking to do that to a person. There is no response to it. It is wrong.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life". I openly speculated about your personality and motivations, as did you of me, but I was nice enough to at least openly state I was speculating, where as you did not.

[ May 06, 2012, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Stone_Wolf_ ]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life".
I just read this four times in a row to make sure
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
To be clear, I didn't say anything -about- those things positive or negative, merely mentioned them as remembered facts in passing. There was no speculation about those statistics.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life".
I just read this four times in a row to make sure
I think he honestly believes that this scans with what he said. I don't know why he believes this, but I think he does.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
To be clear, I didn't say anything -about- those things positive or negative, merely mentioned them as remembered facts in passing. There was no speculation about those statistics.

not trying to take sides here (dance puppets dance) but ... what.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
**Is a puppet, who dances, dances, dances.**

Here is an (fictitious) example of something said which might qualify as a "utterly careless assessments the quality of their personal lives" or "speculating about someone's personal life".


Here is an example of a simple fact, with no judgment at all.


See the difference? I most definitely speculated about Orincoro's motivations, and the reasons he is such a first class jerk here, but I did not try and read into his personal life. I merely mentioned some remembered facts, without any condemnation or attempt to use them as evidence for a theory.

Orincoro very definitely delved into my motivations when he said (and for the record, he started it, -and- stated it as fact not speculation):

quote:
I am naive and operate under the assumption that that which I do not understand is bad
I find simplistic solutions gratifying, and I feel that they make me look reasonable and fair
I operate under the assumption that currently complex and intricate legal systems find the root of that complexity not in the practical necessities of governing using an imperfect framework, but instead because the framework itself is "too complicated." And i see an easy solution to the complicated problems of governance in a broad, little thought out reform.
simplicity appeals to me, and I attempt to make this appear a strength, rather than a weakness or a total lack of depth.

But because I happened to simply mention in passing some remembered facts about him, -I- made it personal?

The above quote is so drenched in negative and false assumptions stated as facts, so dripping with disdain, so utterly rude and unnecessary it can only be classified as a personal attack. Where as my response which is apparently so very offensive because it is about his "personal life" flat out stated it was either extrapolation or pure fiction, and never really got that personal.

Is Oroncoro ashamed of being single, living abroad, being a US citizen, or being an educator so much that the mere mention of such trivial details should be considered a personal attack? And if not, what was it that made his unprovoked sucker punch kosher, and my response to his aggression somehow over the line?

If you can't stand the heat, don't light the someone else's kitchen on fire no reason. Blech!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
But because I happened to simply mention in passing some remembered facts about him, -I- made it personal?
Yes. Yes you did. Your post with that stuff in it is like the stark raving quintessence of makin' stuff personal. I am sorry if you do not see that.

I mean okay the rest of this is just all straightforward bossanova Let's-Go-Fight-On-The-Internet and yes he took a potshot at you first but yes you are manifestly missing the extra special personal-motivations-armchair-psychosession you added to the conversation.

tl;dr - http://i.imgur.com/zS2No.gif
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I am missing it...it's true. Orincoro has made it a special mission life to take very personal (if ridiculously comically assumptive) sh*ts on my head. If that does not invite some return volleys in your book, then we frequent different libraries.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Oh, would you two please grow up?! I mean, seriously, get a room and have each other's Spite Babies already.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Gross!
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Heh. While as often happens I thought Orincoro was being unnecessarily insulting and demeaning in his tone, the notions that you a) don't care what he thinks or says and b) that you didn't 'say much about his personal life' are laughable, Stone_Wolf. I mean they're just absurd.

Clearly you do care what he thinks and says, or you wouldn't have said you didn't multiple times now. When someone actually doesn't care about what another person does and says, the indicator for that is they don't care. They simply don't respond, or else they don't respond directly. Almost never on the Internet when someone SAYS they don't care is it actually true, and the likelihood drops as the utterances repeat.

As for the personal life thing...c'mon. Imagine for a moment, say, that I said even some of those things about you-that I hoped you were a good father but I'd be surprised, that your reasons for behaving the way you do are a deep-seated emotional impotence, and that I hope your rudeness online is an effective outlet but again I doubt it...are you really going to sit here and claim you wouldn't regard that as speculation on your personal life?

You can walk this back, man. Orincoro is often quite a jackass, and all it takes is a, "MAN, he pissed me off, to the extent I said some things I shouldn't have. My bad." We all do that. It's cool. More than a few feel about the guy in many of the ways you do.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Damn it Rakeesh, I hate it when you get all calm and rational, because then I'm suckered into talking to you...again...

Heck, I don't mind being considered the bad guy in this drama...I don't buy it for a second, but one thing is for certain, I'm very comfortable not apologizing to Orincoro. He made his bed, acting the way he has for a very long time, and if he doesn't like the end result he should take a good hard look at his actions.

I guess where the disconnect is is this: I've always felt his attacks on me were personal, so I feel fully justified in what I said. I wasn't trying to unmake him as a human being, there are below the belt blows I held in check. I meant those comments to be personal not to harm him in his actual life.

Bullies must learn that when they mess with people they risk getting hurt themselves, and this particular bully has operated with impunity for too long. He got a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. He deserved it. In spades.

And while your point about the phrase "I don't care" popping up too many times is a good indicator of it being not true is a fair point, in this case, I really don't. Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug. I'd have the same response if I saw him doing this crap to someone else.

The silver lining is that Samp got his drama...and his title is bang on!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Oh, would you two please grow up?!

No! NO! You'll ruin EVERYTHING
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Oh, yes, a very clever ruse on my part, I suppose.

quote:
Heck, I don't mind being considered the bad guy in this drama...I don't buy it for a second, but one thing is for certain, I'm very comfortable not apologizing to Orincoro. He made his bed, acting the way he has for a very long time, and if he doesn't like the end result he should take a good hard look at his actions.

I didn't say that. You may've missed the at least two times I said pretty harsh things about Orincoro as well. That said, I think it's pretty naive on your part to think he doesn't like the end result of his posting style. He has said, openly, that he posts this way on purpose. Presumably that means he enjoys the results-including, perhaps especially, having one of his most frequent detractors take such a contradictory, patently absurd stance as you are here, loudly proclaiming that you don't care and that you didn't comment on his personal life.

I mean, seriously. It's clear he doesn't like you, or at least doesn't like the way you think. So you give him a nice heaping helping of one of his critics behaving in amusingly irrational ways. That's only going to be fun for him.

quote:
I guess where the disconnect is is this: I've always felt his attacks on me were personal, so I feel fully justified in what I said. I wasn't trying to unmake him as a human being, there are below the belt blows I held in check. I meant those comments to be personal not to harm him in his actual life.

Bullies must learn that when they mess with people they risk getting hurt themselves, and this particular bully has operated with impunity for too long. He got a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. He deserved it. In spades.

Dude. Listen to yourself. By posting in a forum, you were showing a bully there are consequences for his actions. That's a pretty self-serving, provably false claim. Do you imagine even for a second that Orincoro's behavior will change? That you've actually hurt him or made him reconsider his posting style? That you've somehow made a stand against bullies? You didn't. There's pretty much two ways to make an effective stand against 'bullies' in an environment such as this: one, whistle his posts; two, thoroughly ignore him, or don't respond to him except to poke fun, but still not actually engaging him.

This is something of a habit of yours now in interacting with him, casting yourself as the victim and he as the bully. It's silly. You each have exactly as much power as the other.

quote:
And while your point about the phrase "I don't care" popping up too many times is a good indicator of it being not true is a fair point, in this case, I really don't. Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug. I'd have the same response if I saw him doing this crap to someone else.

Setting aside the question of whether or not this has even close to 'squashed him like a bug' (and believe me, it absolutely hasn't), what about the fact that reactions such as yours only encourage the kind of behavior you want to see reduced?

Leads one to think that perhaps your righteous stand against bullies isn't quite what it seems, frankly.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Also I am going to note here in some uncharacteristic seriousness, mr stone wolf:

when you make a statement that presents this:

quote:
Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug.
- the stuff he says has no impact on me
- the stuff he says drives the desire to do X

please think about this inherent contradiction!
 
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
 
quote:
The mirror is the fall, the trap, and a jerk
I just wanted to say the latest thread title is incredibly hilarious. That is all.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
By posting in a forum, you were showing a bully there are consequences for his actions. That's a pretty self-serving, provably false claim.

Not following you, but since it's provably false, you can prove it and then I'll get what mean, right?

quote:
Setting aside the question of whether or not this has even close to 'squashed him like a bug' (and believe me, it absolutely hasn't), what about the fact that reactions such as yours only encourage the kind of behavior you want to see reduced?
First I said "it made me want to squish him like a bug" not claiming I did. Second, if it turns out you are right and (so far) it hasn't at all...then I will have to change tactics.


quote:
Originally posted by Samp:
please think about this inherent contradiction!

It's not an inherent contradiction...think of it this way, an angry man comes up to you and starts yelling loudly in your face in a language you don't understand. That he is yelling and angry at you is something that is unpleasant and that you want to stop, but his words are gibberish to you, so -what he is saying- is not upsetting to you at all. -What- Orincoro says doesn't upset me. That he is openly, without provocation, hostile to me does.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
Not following you, but since it's provably false, you can prove it and then I'll get what mean, right?
By posting, you are not demonstrating "consequences" to a "bully;" you are merely feeding a troll. Your anger is his reward.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Idea for next thread title:
quote:
The Avenjerks (Spoilers within)

 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
What Tom said, basically. You are accusing Orincoro repeatedly of being a bullying troll. I very much doubt you don't know what that word means. What do trolls do, Stone_Wolf? They deliberately antagonize people to draw out amusing drama and anger for them to laugh at. That's what is provably false, and it cannot have failed to occur to you either-it's just that for some reason, Orincoro isn't just a troll to you.

The truth is he is a troll who has successfully trolled you, unless you're going to suggest that you would tell someone else being trolled that the way to handle it is to give in to that desire to 'squash them like a bug', to give as good as they get, as though it will actually accomplish anything.

Perhaps you're telling yourself you're making a stand against bullies, but that doesn't change the fact that you're not. It's like...heh, that scene in The Wizard of Oz when, on the Yellow Brick Road, Dorothy and Scarecrow encounter those mean apple trees. They're hungry though, and want something to eat-and as it turns out, the trees are pretty unlikable anyway. So looking at their dislike for the trees and their hunger, they start talking trash and the apple trees throw their own apples at them. They grab up a bunch and stroll on their way.

That's what you're doing, but you ain't getting any apples. That's what Orincoro is doing, and he IS.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Stoney,
You should also realize that we all know what Ori is. To me, he's the least of Hatrack's Angry Teen Boy Squad because it seems like the only thing he has is his pseudo-intellectual hostility. The others may lack the maturity/self-control to act differently and at least one I'm pretty sure chooses to act that way. But they have other stuff going on. With Ori, I don't think he's got anything else to offer.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I'm enjoying this! Does that make me the troll?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
No. It just makes you someone who's willing to bore other people for the sake of your own enjoyment. And a bit of a liar.

(For the record, I disagree with Squicky's assessment of Orincoro.)
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Why a liar? I never said I was a hurt cringing victim...I said I didn't care, and I don't. And putting some chin music on someone who richly deserves it is rewarding.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
I haven't been around much lately. It's possible he's changed. Back when I read here often, I was always very unimpressed at the difference between what he represented himself as knowing versus what he actually knew and how he always seemed to back up his expertise of ignorance with hostility.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Stoney,
quote:
And putting some chin music on someone who richly deserves it is rewarding.
I have a somewhat different perspective. To me, you are engaging in juvenile squabbling that ends up rewarding Ori with exactly what he wants. To me, that wouldn't be rewarding and it makes you look foolish.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Everyone seems to think that Orincoro is getting what he wants, when clearly Samp is the one getting what he wants.

And all in good fun. Why shouldn't I enjoy it? I made it clear I wasn't mad, right from the get go.

Drama-capacitors engaged! Set phasors to comedy!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Drama-capacitors engaged! Set phasors to comedy!

you are old
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I had better be the front man for this angry teen boy squad or whatever. I am not going to be able to deal with if I don't have a summary categorical identity in this fashion.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Turning 32 this month...not -that- old.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
ancient
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Back in '31, when I was pregnant with my third child, I went for a long, desperate cross country run through enemy territory. Waving my arms like a madwoman, dodging the droppings of crows flustered from the heaps of corpses left over from Napoleon's second last stand, trying to catch the eye of a sniper, searching for grenades in the deep muddy foxholes.
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
I've not been on Hatrack for a couple days, let's open this thread and see what's been poste-
Oh. Oh.
Did I interrupt something? [Eek!]
I think I'll just uh, step around and go this way...

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
Hey, I read that thread too! E/N is one of my guilty pleasures.

pps yes this. yes this is me. e/n is everything. did you wholly ingest the Pixelante thread, that was amazing
Yesssss I did. I think the whole situation lasted for what, 2 years? I was almost sad when she finally wrapped it up.

Did you get to see the Fascinator Eddie/Natalie thread before they archived it? It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion, I actually shrieked aloud at one point. Usually I stumble into a thread during the aftermath (like now!) and read the whole thing unfolding in one go. I got to observe that one evolve in real time, because I'd already been reading her other thread in A/T.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
No, and I eventually have to get the archive upgrade. simultaneously to go back and watch those threads as well as be able to read people's rap sheet and bans with impunity.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
OH and there was also that thread where the girl had to escape her crazy-ass family like plan for a way to scoot out the window at night and never be anywhere she could be cornered by them ever again. who was that? I wish I could still see that one.
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
OH and there was also that thread where the girl had to escape her crazy-ass family like plan for a way to scoot out the window at night and never be anywhere she could be cornered by them ever again. who was that? I wish I could still see that one.

Do you mean NerdyNautilusGirl's thread, where a goon ended up sending her a ticket to New Mexico because that was the only way she could get far enough away? It's still in the live forums.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
OH and there was also that thread where the girl had to escape her crazy-ass family like plan for a way to scoot out the window at night and never be anywhere she could be cornered by them ever again. who was that? I wish I could still see that one.

Do you mean NerdyNautilusGirl's thread, where a goon ended up sending her a ticket to New Mexico because that was the only way she could get far enough away? It's still in the live forums.
My favorite thread was the man who adopted a kid who thought he was Goku, and that his girlfriend's baby was fathered by a "Vegetable" (Vegita) and the guy tried to clean him up off drugs, and set him straight only to find out the adopted boy was insane and plotting to kill him. I can't find it anymore.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
OH MAN I NEVER EVEN SAW THIS ONE
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
oh my holy hell the sister snuck the mom into the lease oh dear
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
saldfkjghaslkfj

quote:
the reason why you see defending yourself from other people's lovely behavior as "----ing people over" is because you have literally been trained your whole life to accept being taken advantage of by other people. Until you can get yourself in therapy, you need to remind yourself that your internal compass for how to treat your family is wrong because they have abused you until you started thinking that was acceptable.
sad but true oh my god
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
So my mom decided that because she was too stupid to figure out how to program the thermostat that she was gonna gently caress with the pilot light. This means, of course, that she loving broke it. I made sure the gas is of already, checked for gas leaks, and got it all sorted, but gently caress if I'm gonna pay for the repair. Neither she nor Jeanne have the money to fix the drat thing; I've decided that they can suck it. I went out and bought a space heater with my plasma money. They can just pile on the blankets. I'm not loving paying for it. I wasn't even at the house to stop it. They can go ahead and be cold.
this mom oh my god
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
OH and there was also that thread where the girl had to escape her crazy-ass family like plan for a way to scoot out the window at night and never be anywhere she could be cornered by them ever again. who was that? I wish I could still see that one.

Do you mean NerdyNautilusGirl's thread, where a goon ended up sending her a ticket to New Mexico because that was the only way she could get far enough away? It's still in the live forums.
My favorite thread was the man who adopted a kid who thought he was Goku, and that his girlfriend's baby was fathered by a "Vegetable" (Vegita) and the guy tried to clean him up off drugs, and set him straight only to find out the adopted boy was insane and plotting to kill him. I can't find it anymore.
Ahhh that Humper Monkey thread. It's in the Goldmine.

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
OH MAN I NEVER EVEN SAW THIS ONE

LOL you were talking about her first thread weren't you?
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
Stoney,
You should also realize that we all know what Ori is. To me, he's the least of Hatrack's Angry Teen Boy Squad because it seems like the only thing he has is his pseudo-intellectual hostility. The others may lack the maturity/self-control to act differently and at least one I'm pretty sure chooses to act that way. But they have other stuff going on. With Ori, I don't think he's got anything else to offer.

Yeah, I have no opinions about you... Like at all. [Smile]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
LOL you were talking about her first thread weren't you?

Yup. Good lord if I had been around when her sister moved her mom back in with her I would have pretty straightforwardly despaired.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
humper monkey can never change his avatar from brock sampson
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
humper monkey IS brock sampson
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
my mistake
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
hey where on the internet can I buy handcuffs on the cheap

i mean they still have to be working police grade handcuffs but like less than 30 bucks
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
I dunno I torrent all my handcuffs.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
My second child, carried in my matrix over the sturm and drang of the ice-age, cougar-pelted, covered in flint-chips, sigh... the thalidomide finished him off (according to the magnetic resonance). God, how I loved to paint the trichinosis, the rhinitis, no, the rhinocerii (we were pre-literate, after all) on the cave walls. Augustus, I called him. They buried him with blueberries. Primitive to those distinctions.

[ May 08, 2012, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: deerpark27 ]
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
It's important to get everything right.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
In case of a fall,
the jerk of the neck...
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
hey where on the internet can I buy handcuffs on the cheap

i mean they still have to be working police grade handcuffs but like less than 30 bucks

Pro grade, $20 cuffs. And I can vouch for the company, I order from them all the time.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Yessss. Done.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
So now they're all saying guy fieri is a jerk, but honestly don't we all have the right to be squicked right the heck out by homosexuals, whether or not it is relevant to the murderfood carb-hindenbergs we're cramming down our gullets for quality food television
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
hey where on the internet can I buy handcuffs on the cheap

i mean they still have to be working police grade handcuffs but like less than 30 bucks

Pro grade, $20 cuffs. And I can vouch for the company, I order from them all the time.
Stone Wolf just got a lot more interesting.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
stone wolf has helped me abduct people at half price
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
It's their own fault if Samp gets them...I warned them to carry pepper spray!
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
It's their own fault if Samp gets them...I warned them to carry pepper spray!

Did you provide them links for discounted pepper spray?
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
No one asked.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
It's their own fault if Samp gets them...I warned them to carry pepper spray!

I warned them to memorize safewords.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/cyxxS.png
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
But Misha is a guy's name.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
But in the Latin alphabet, "Misha" begins with an I ....

*falls through floor, dies*
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Always with the dying as a distraction technique.

*yawn*
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I think this thread is a fitting Landmark for Sam.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
your mom's a fitting landmark
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
My mom's overweight and lost the use of one leg after a car accident, so she's wheelchair bound.

So, actually, that's probably a pretty good burn.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
OOOOH YEAH. ACKNOWLEDGED BURN.

*fistpumps through wall*
 
Posted by 777 (Member # 9506) on :
 
I cannot stop laughing.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
You should see a doctor 777.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
paging dr. 777. dr. 777, could you come to the front office

call me an ambulance, dr. 777.

ok, you're an ambulance. URRR HURRR HURRR HURRR
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Your laughter looks painful Samp.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://imgur.com/JUjyG
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAkCLpMtjlM

http://imgur.com/7LMkG
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
God, Sam, that video was painful. Why would you inflict that on us?

It astonished me when I realized he actually has a cameraman. That means he has a friend with him watching what he's doing and not telling him to please stop. What kind of friend would do that?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
katana is best anti boigla weapon
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Why did you post my video about defending yourself from a burglar with a katana? I look good.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
my problem with diablo 3's 'electrocute'

http://i.imgur.com/bPZCf.png
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
So, two cannibals were eating Ricky Gervais and one turns to the other and says:

"Does this taste funny to you?"

And the other replies:

"No, not at all."
 
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
 
So the most important question I have:

Is the next name for this thread going to be "Gay Jerk Infestation" or "Jerk Zombie Infestation?"
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Oh come on it should be obvious
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"Gay Raymond Arnold Infestation"
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I'm just sad a newer, more exciting thread started before we got "Advice from anyone who has worked in telemarketing/jerk service" or possibly "The Ashton Kutcher Jerk" ...but those are both perhaps a little too on the nose.

quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
So, two cannibals were eating Ricky Gervais and one turns to the other and says:

"Does this taste funny to you?"

And the other replies:

"No, not at all."

[ROFL]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
zdgjgx;dg;ghsgdgugrsguiefugifewugsfe

gs;ug[y8agr
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
my brain feels like this branch that has fallen on this powerline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4ph-h7l_aM
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/mCR2F.gif

you float on a throne of LIES
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
zdgjgx;dg;ghsgdgugrsguiefugifewugsfe

gs;ug[y8agr

Well said!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
So anyway to continue the discussion in the other thread it is pretty obvious that OSC has Oppositional Defiant Disorder and probably autism. I have an extensive wikipedia self-education on mental diagnoses and have figured out a pretty reliable way to figure out what complexes OSC has as a result of his traumatic childhood. He shows 5 of the 17 wikipedia page talk signs of classical psychopathy according to reddit user Karmanaut.

He has kids right? Are any of them underage? I think we should start a serious discussion on whether CPS should be involved. In conclusion, OP: sever.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
GROUND FLOOR
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Are any of them underage?

No.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Whatever, let's de-mancipate them just so we can take them away anyway
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I'm actually upgrading OSC from classical psycopathy to baroque psychopathy. if we see shades of hellenistic psychopathy (or Münchausen's psychopathy by Proxy) I will be informing the appropriate mental health professionals in OSC's area.

Source: I have looked directly at the DSM-IV once.
 
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
 
Dude, DSM-IV is SO outdated. Next one's out next year! They already have a website and everything!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
As a self-diagnosed aspbergers sufferer, I categorically reject the new autistic spectrum disorder classifications that are trying to pretend that my self-diagnosis of poor social, communication, and life skills coupled with delusions of grandeur, importance, and competence does not exist. I demand a schism to the Orthodox Church of Psychology and
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
a Doritos taco.
 
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
 
"Isn't there a magic item that could turn you into a girl permanently? Seems like that would solve a lot of problems."

"Yes, but gender-switching items are still listed as 'cursed' under the DMG IV. Administration wouldn't let me use it."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I actually have two goals in life right now: destroy traditional marriage, and kill spiders. Lots of spiders, because they're ugly, disgusting, and horrendous.

The destroy traditional marriage part is the easier part to understand. Spiders, a little less straightforward. They tried to take over my bathroom so I just go around smooshing them as fast as i can see them.
 
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
That's like trying to fight the "war on terror" by killing as many terrorists as possible. It doesn't really address the root problem!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
What if the root problem is that it is not fun to not kill spiders or terrorists
 
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
Then Mission Accomplished™.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
That's not a valid conclusion you can make until you get flown on a jet to a carrier and there is a podium on the carrier that you can go up to and be all like "so that is all awesome how we won and everything right, woo, problem solved. Good job everyone"
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I actually have two goals in life right now: destroy traditional marriage, and kill spiders. Lots of spiders, because they're ugly, disgusting, and horrendous.

The destroy traditional marriage part is the easier part to understand. Spiders, a little less straightforward. They tried to take over my bathroom so I just go around smooshing them as fast as i can see them.

awww. Spiders are not disgusting and ugly and horrendous. They are so cute. I love those things. In fact I want more, but I already have 100 spiderlings, 5 juvenile wolf spiders, 3 wolf spider ladies. One older baby. Maybe I have enough.
I want a potato bug.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
No. Spiders are terrible. Abjectly terrible. Wastes of space. Unworthy of life. I think we should really try to find a way to exterminate them pretty much completely. Some kind of specific targeted pesticide we could spray all over the world? Anyway. I think it is possible with today's technology to exterminate the species entirely and I wholly support this sort of specific adjustment of the ecosystem to remove disgusting creatures.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
My wife and mother agree.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Actually you could probably amend my post to be pretty much about 'poor people' too, not just spiders.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Can we make a pesticide to target people based on socioeconomic status? We could work out a wonderful eugenic system here to weed out 'handout culture' degenerates. We could probably actually specifically toxify the environment and make filters for gas masks only distributable by the government, based on employment. Fall behind on your social returns? Well, getting a filter for you and your kids is going to be pretty hard. Bonus is we get rid of the spiders while getting rid of the indigents.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
If we did that, there would be soooooooooooooooooo many mosquitoes. Tons of them. And sooooo many wasps.
I hate wasps. Well, female ones anyway.
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
This seems like the most accurate thread title yet.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
quote:
Can we make a pesticide to target people based on socioeconomic status? We could work out a wonderful eugenic system here to weed out 'handout culture' degenerates. We could probably actually specifically toxify the environment and make filters for gas masks only distributable by the government, based on employment. Fall behind on your social returns? Well, getting a filter for you and your kids is going to be pretty hard. Bonus is we get rid of the spiders while getting rid of the indigents.
I thought that was what McDonalds was.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
If we did that, there would be soooooooooooooooooo many mosquitoes.

If we're getting rid of that many poor people, how are they multiplying without their largest feeding pool?
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
No spiders to eat them
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hatrack has changed my mind about the zimmerman case. I'm thinking now sortof that basically zimmerman should not be getting put on trial for manslaughter, he should be getting judged on whether or not it was a clean trophy kill. I don't know how you measure up a black kid (i mean, it's not like they have a horn rack you can measure) but I'm thinking that trayvon counts as pretty good suburban hunt return. Trial might still be necessary (were vagrant black youths in season? Is there some sort of federal breeding period and age range that requires protection? Was Martin an illegitimate adolescent kill? Should he have been neighborhood catch and release? Are they trying to recover their numbers, or is this a sort of overpopulation culling effort (that seems far more likely).
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
*cringe*
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
)))
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hey I was thinking of a new religion to replace the empty pit that my life has become, how about scientology™

http://imgur.com/a/M8M0o
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
You need a piece of clear blue sky?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I just need a corner of it.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
If we did that, there would be soooooooooooooooooo many mosquitoes. Tons of them. And sooooo many wasps.
I hate wasps. Well, female ones anyway.

Then you probably really hate these wasps.
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Yeah. That's pretty scary. But those Japanese Hornets. AUGH! SUZUMEBACHI!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Japanese hornets are awesome. Even if I had a flyswatter, I'd be afraid it would just piss it off.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
They could corner me and I'd just give up my wallet and cancel my credit cards later
 
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
They'd just call up their sisters and go, HOW DARE YOU CANCEL YOUR CARDS and they will sting you repeatedly. I hate female wasps and hornets. They sting and fly. Therefore they are scary and spiders are not. They would take the flyswatter, beat you with it and then sting and then call their sisters to sting you somemore. They can kill a hive of European bees in 30 seconds.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I am considering doing a multi-layered very impressively detailed and thorough troll wherein I build up a case as a person detailing my support of cultural relativism up to and beyond excusing this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148774/Shafilea-Ahmed-trial-Mother-said-Just-finish-moments-suffocating-daughter-court-hears.html

as merely a protected expression of things that should not be considered wrong because they are 'moral within their culture'

thoughts
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Ugh.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I am considering doing a multi-layered very impressively detailed and thorough troll wherein I build up a case as a person detailing my support of cultural relativism up to and beyond excusing this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148774/Shafilea-Ahmed-trial-Mother-said-Just-finish-moments-suffocating-daughter-court-hears.html

as merely a protected expression of things that should not be considered wrong because they are 'moral within their culture'

thoughts

It sounds like a great way to scare off women. I'd avoid it if there is any chance that any woman you might have an interest in dating at some future point has any reasonable chance of hearing about it.

I was recently in a small social gathering where a guy ended up defending female ritual genital mutilation as a legitimate cultural practice to a UN human rights worker. She was left the discussion in tears. If you are looking for a sure fire way to turn a woman off to you more or less permanently, this is a good idea. If that's not what you want, don't.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Yeah. That's pretty scary. But those Japanese Hornets. AUGH! SUZUMEBACHI!

The tarantula hawk is actually bigger and has one of the most painful stings in the world.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
If you are looking for a sure fire way to turn a woman off to you more or less permanently, this is a good idea. If that's not what you want, don't.

yessssssssssss.

Oh but is there like a backup plan in case they turn out to be really into FGM?
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
... Ugh.

Why do I keep clicking on this thread?
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Oh but is there like a backup plan in case they turn out to be really into FGM?

Run?

When I was seventeen my family hosted a bible study in our home...and one of the locals who came regularly used the phrase "If your going to be raped, you might as well enjoy the sex." nearly every meeting, sometimes twice in the same meeting.

My parents actually had to ask him to stop, and when he didn't we told him that if he didn't he would have to study the bible somewhere else.

Rabbit's story reminded me of him.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
This I need to hear about.

WHY was he constantly trying to find excuses to use that quote. At bible study. You say that I just keep thinking "speaking of airplanes and eartha kitt .."
 
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
 
What? It came up organically!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
... Ugh.

Why do I keep clicking on this thread?

The tea party is 100% racist. Get over it.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/31/492796/white-supremacist-with-ties-to-neo-nazi-groups-elected-to-pennsylvania-county-gop-committee/
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
Well, I guess your logic is irrefutable.

Also, damn, you got me, I clicked again. Well played.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I just need a corner of it.

Have you been singing softly to the dawn again?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Pretty much if Breitbart hadn't killed himself by being such a horrible human being (yet a surprisingly astute journalist, liberals) he would be chargeable with a hate crime. I want to see an alternate reality where the tea party had really actually been about small government at all, instead of really just being a cult for racist, paranoid white people. That said, he really WAS right about the media establishment, and was really successful effectively only because he know how to hit the establishment where it hurt and had a keen eye for finding REAL flaws with "progressive" attitudes.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Man I think I ran out of thin mints. topic title unrelated
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
... Ugh.

Why do I keep clicking on this thread?

topic still unrelated
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I'm flattered, Sam.

Really.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Where is -my- thread? [Grumble]

I've got thread envy! [Cry]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Stone Wolf's Thread Of Stone Wolf Really Doesn't Think You Are Following Some Standard Of Polite Decorum Have You Considered It Perhaps Maybe
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
didn't fit sorry
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Thanks though...

That tittle would be a perfect place to slip in the word "jerk".

Like maybe:

Stone_Wolf's Thread of Only Stone_Wolf_ Can Act Like a Jerk, So Be Polite, Or Else You Will Be Pepper sprayed In Your Jerk Face
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
There's no Jerk in this thread title.

Also, Sam, I decided not to say this in the relevant thread so as not to distract from the real topics, so I'll say it to you here:

It must have been so hard for you, being a cute skinny white boy. I can't even imagine.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I wasn't even really that cute. Heartbreaking, innit
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Come on, I'm sure Saminprimaryschool was SO cute!

(Somehow this post ended up in the GZ thread, so weird!)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
maybe sam in pre-k.
 
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
 
I don't know why I am posting here other than to comment of the fact that I am posting.

edit: Wow, I don't often get post count envy but I feel really small in this thread.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
everyone point and laugh at vasslia
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
Is there a way for us to electronically verify that we have indeed done as Samp (10697) suggested?

Oh... wait.
 
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
 
Wait... By not posting here, I get money and a social life?! I'm getting gypped!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vasslia Cora:
Wait... By not posting here, I get money and a social life?!

Dignity, too. Don't forget dignity.
 
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
 
Isn't a requisite of having money and a healthy social life that you disregard your dignity?
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
::points to his own start date and post count::

I wouldn't know.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Isn't the point -to- forget your dignity?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
Isn't a requisite of having money and a healthy social life that you disregard your dignity?

*thinks real carefully about his own, uh ... alternate social life*

um, ... mmm, uh, ... hmm.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
MAN WHAT A SEASON FINALE
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I'd watch it.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Kickstarter, go.
 
Posted by Emreecheek (Member # 12082) on :
 
Children are just abortions that eat.
 
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
 
Since I'm not getting money, a social life, or dignity I think I will just start posting here more often. At least here if I say I have money and as long as there isn't a meet up nobody will be able to disprove me.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
saldjkhasldfkjhaslkhasldfjkhsdkflhsdafl

http://i.minus.com/iSM31IZmkZBgR.png
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
By the Rivers of Babylon there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land? And so among us all we invented Reggae, and made an upbeat song about the first half of a psalm that later includes dashing infants upon the stones in revenge.
 
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 
deerpark, how did you get Samp's account password?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Xavier:
deerpark, how did you get Samp's account password?

ahahahahaha

A professor went to visit a Zen monastery to learn the ways of Zen. He excitedly told the monk all that he'd heard and read, asking the monk to confirm or expound on this detail or that.

After a few minutes, the monk offered the man a cup of tea. He placed the cup on a table, began to pour, and continued to pour even as the cup was full and overflowing.

"What are you doing?" the professor demanded. "The cup is already overfilled and still you pour!" The monk smiled gently.

"My bad," he responded. "I smoked a joint out in the garden before you got here and I'm pretty baked right now. But yeah, Zen basically owns."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3505524

good lord I do not know how I am supposed to not read this entire thread.

NIGHTMARE PSYCHIATRY (slash mostly unlicenced/underqualified therapy BUT STILL)
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Reading that thread is painful, I can't go on.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
My mom also had BPD, and as a nurse, she knew how to game the system. She was frequently hospitalized, but she would brag about knowing what to tell them to fake a recovery, and she sought out a new psychiatrist or psychology who would tell her what she wanted to hear anytime the old ones started to catch on to her game.

She had a psychiatrist when I was thirteen who she invited me in to talk to. She told me that I would just be making use of a private session because I'd recently started at a new school and was having anxiety issues because of it, and not incidentally because my mother's live-in boyfriend (who would later attempt to rape me) had started making inappropriate comments about my body and had taken the lock off the bathroom door so he could try to catch me coming out of the shower.

I sit down, thinking we would just be talking about making friends at my new school, or dealing with my parents' divorce. But instead, the psychiatrist starts asking me why I feel the need to sabotage my mother's relationship, and why am I flirting with a man forty years my senior, and don't I understand how important this relationship is to my mother's stability and well-being? Then she tells me that my mother believes I'm devoid of empathy and wants me tested for psychopathy, and that from what she'd heard, she was inclined to agree.

I was horrified and started to cry, and she just stared at me coldly and sat there in silence for the remainder of the session.

welp
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3505524

good lord I do not know how I am supposed to not read this entire thread.

NIGHTMARE PSYCHIATRY (slash mostly unlicenced/underqualified therapy BUT STILL)

I could only take a page and a half of that thread before I had to retreat to one less terrible, like the Freep thread in D&D. FTGE.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
quote:
646 Economists Support Sam's Plan
This seems... unlikely.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
What a jerk.
 
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
 
You don't even know what my plan is.
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
Why not 666 Economists?
 
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Parkour:
You don't even know what my plan is.

Is this a joke about you being an alt for Sam?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
No it's parks staying logged in and I accidentally post as him AGAIN
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Samprimary and Parkour, split personalities, but unaware they share the same body. Discuss!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
so wait, that means that this is some sort of Fight Club scenario where it's me hilariously injuring myself all summer
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
It may be closer to a "MS Paint Adventures" sort of thing, really.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
so wait, that means that this is some sort of Fight Club scenario where it's me hilariously injuring myself all summer

Start the Kickstarter offering.

I'll support that.

[Wink]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
It may be closer to a "MS Paint Adventures" sort of thing, really.

I read Homestuck about half the way through up to the truly autism-levels of intricate detail and then the fanbase went off the deep end and I slowly backed off and
 
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
I've seen people on the internet talk about "Homestuck" before but I don't really understand what it is. I assumed comic at first, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I googled it, and found a terrible looking comic, but I'm not sure if that's actually it, or...
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
homestuck actually has a neat visual aesthetic and an interesting presentational premise and much care and devotion has gone into it and it's worth experiencing, but jesus christ it is so easy to get lost, also it has spawned an insane fanbase, like,

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/185/f/4/homestuck_fans__rise_up__by_ciliciancrusader-d3kycj6.jpg
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I-nlxD3jUQ&feature=related

category of 'i like this song but then i heard it on laptop speakers and blanched'
 
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
so wait, that means that this is some sort of Fight Club scenario where it's me hilariously injuring myself all summer

Yeah you just stay safe in a chair, good boy.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Yeah, "Homestuck" isn't exactly terrible-looking once you realize what he's doing. I'm a fan, but I'm not a FAN -- in the sense that I don't really know who half the characters are and couldn't begin to tell you what's going on right now with all the ancestors on their dreamworlds and, um....On the other hand, I know what a "moirail" is. I firmly believe that the story has gone on long enough and he needs to start pulling it back in, though; if he adds another cast, even if just to troll -- perhaps literally -- his audience, I may have to stop reading.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/10trs3/my_exbest_friend_once_threw_a_fullon_screaming/

i sure do love the human race
 
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
 
hey do this.
 
Posted by Thesifer (Member # 12890) on :
 
I'm glad that my penis was mutilated. I don't want some crazy looking slug, folding space and time to pass spice on to the unsuspecting masses of women.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
well, if it ever really gets to you, you could just kill a few duncan idahos to pass time
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
oh hey thread
where have you been hiding i missed you
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
wrote this when it was revealed that diablo III had an upcoming expansion named reaper of souls

http://i.imgur.com/0Ywejqn.png

then i wrote this when the cinematic came out

http://i.imgur.com/6p7bcly.png
 
Posted by 777 (Member # 9506) on :
 
I looked at when the thread started, and was shocked to see how long ago it was. The fact that it stopped growing must be due to other forms of social media or social life or life outside of Hatrack. Also, broken Windows. I mean, I don't think that 8 is that bad, but maybe others didn't take the transition quite so well.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I just knew it yo

friendster and google plus killed forums.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
because i hate each and every one of you and wish suffering upon you

http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
wrote this when it was revealed that diablo III had an upcoming expansion named reaper of souls

http://i.imgur.com/0Ywejqn.png

then i wrote this when the cinematic came out

http://i.imgur.com/6p7bcly.png

The more I laughed the sadder I became. :/
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
what is the best pizza topping?
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
what is the best pizza topping?

Sliced up hot pickled sausage. Sounds weird but seriously, it's freaking amazing on pizza.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
I get the feeling this is a prank, where we all order our own pizzas with that on them, and find out when we eat it, that we have been duped.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
Nope, I'm serious. My dad used to make pizza with them all the time and I loved it. Talking about it is making me hungry, might have to go out and get some supplies.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
as an individual topping, ground lamb.

as a pièce de résistance alongside other ingredients, basil
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Ham. Pizza with ham.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Yunk. The Czechs love sunka (basically thin sliced ham) on their pizza and I find it gross.

Give me some Buffalo sausage (as in made fro buffalo meat) on my pizza any day.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
title is real
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"I think we've all been there, jobless with nothing but a bucket of hotdogs, a block of processed cheese, a van, an American flag, and a goddamn dream.

Or at least that was my initial impression. Since the campaign started, the guy has actually built his kitchen (look at the updates!), done some hotdog catering, set up his entire supply chain, and he appears to have his budget planned very well, albeit with the help of "How to Start a Hotdog Cart" eBooks. He's got a dream, man, and none of us and not even the devil himself is going to be able to stop him. Unlike a lot of crappy Kickstarters, I believe this is going to happen with or without our funding. This guy is Forrest Gump and his shrimping boat/hotdog stand might as well be built right next to the Field of Dreams. I don't mean to imply that he's an idiot, but that I admire his blind confidence and hotdog faith.

I come from Hipsterville where we only eat hotdogs ironically, as a joke, so that other people can look at us and say "Haha. That's hilarious. Let me take an Instagram of that. Imagine if you ate hotdogs and actually liked them." So this campaign touches me in ways both mystical and nostalgic. It makes me yearn for the days when I could eat bad food unironically and wear plaid because it's warm and because lumberjacks are cool, not because I'm trying to convey some dumb hidden message. Every time you eat a hotdog, you get to become a kid again for two minutes.

The hotdogs are hilarious, but I genuinely hate it when people get flak for "trying too hard." We badly need more people who try too hard. It's the most foolish insult to say, "I dislike you because I dislike effort." We are a generation of people who were told their entire lives by nurturing, caring, hippie parents they we are all geniuses. Every boy a wonderboy. Every child above average. But rare is a parent who doesn't care about test scores and IQs, but instead praises their kid only for trying and failing. Effort, man. Effort. That matters so much more than innate intelligence, than knowledge, than wit. You should try to do new things even when (hell, especially when) you think you will fail. This man is trying hard, with all his might, for an aspiration that isn't even lofty. It's humble man wanting for a reachable goal involving the most meager of foods in the tiniest of towns in the poorest of states.

Yeah, I'll be damned if I'm going to dislike a guy for trying too hard. It's apparent that he has turned to crowdfunding only because he has already put every spare dollar he owns into this business. I might not believe in the superior deliciousness of Doobie's hotdogs, but I want to believe in them. And I would eat one.

Another thing is that this appears to be a very small town where the median household income is 20 grand and the most prominent restaurant is a Subway. A hotdog stand, of all things, could affect real change there. It's a good story: The unfeeling internet hordes pulling together to fund a rural hotdog stand in Reform, Alabama. That is something I want to be part of. "Doobie's Dog House" is a name worthy of headlines. I want confused journalists to try to figure out what the **** happened, why it happened, and how they can possibly convey the idea of crowdfunding to their readers. It'll be like when CNN tries to explain memes. At the very least, this has the potential to make an entire town wonder about Something Awful. Someday, I would like to drive to Doobie's Dog House, eat a hotdog, and think of goons.

To finally answer your question about our motivations, it's definitely the third option. We are good and bad meats processed together and extruded as 6 foot tall tubes, both cynical and kind, complicated and salty. Goons are actual hotdogs. I pledged $25 for both entertainment and charity. If this works and there's a hungry Alabama goon who wants my hotdogs, they can have them. Just please take pictures so it's like a child sponsorship charity, only for meat tubes instead of impoverished children. If the Kickstarter fails, then I will have paid nothing and told a guy that I admire his efforts and his gumption."


goons power doobie's dog house (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/657642328/doobies-dog-house) to fruition
 
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
quote:
We haven't talked too much about the town where this Kickstarter is from, but I think that's part of the story: Reform, Alabama. Named apparently by an irate preacher. Population: 1675. Median household income: $15k. 45% African Americans. It has a a Dollar General, a Subway, a small grocery store, and some gas stations. Google maps comically labels nothing but three cemeteries and an airport.

It's like a place we all picture in our minds when we think of proverbial small town America. Heck, if you walk the town there are American flags down the entire stretch of the road. But this place has lost a fifth of its population in 10 years. Incomes, already poverty-line, have dropped 25% in a decade. Exactly a year ago, a storm wrecked the place. It decimated a thrift store (now rebuilt) that is right next to where Doobie's Dog House will be located. I tell you all of this just to make a round-about point: A humble hotdog stand, of all the things in the world, could help this town. It could affect real change.

Hotdogs are hilarious. They're also universal, a sort of basic meat currency. And they're edible time machines. They bring us back to child-like states of glee and energy. If you eat a hotdog, you get to travel back to an age when you thought that anything was possible, you could do anything, you could become anyone.

Reform, Alabama could probably use a few hotdog-shaped time machines.

I clicked on that thread Wednesday night thinking "yeah right" and left it minus $25 thanks to Noni's posts.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
yeah likewise. it was just another terrible kickstarter being mocked along all the other ones, but somewhere along the line someone just saw this complete earnestness in it and was like 'you .. you know what ..'

end result, I'm invested too and i hope the frogdog happens
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
No I'm serious there are way too many colors of mountain dew AND i want a burger.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
And a rothlesfrogdog
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/MlL8gAS.jpg

sure thing cosmo
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
oooooooooooooooooo
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Those are both hilarious, Samp. Albeit for very different reasons.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
dont waaaaatch this

http://i.imgur.com/O0RD9lc.gif
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
What is that thing behind his hand D:
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
No I'm serious there are way too many colors of mountain dew AND i want a burger.

My boys are upset that all the slushies at Taco Bell are now various flavors of Mountain Dew. They aren't allowed caffeine, so no slushies for them.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
WHY CANT YOUR KIDS HAVE CAFFEINE I HAD CAFFEINE EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE AND I TURNED OUT FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE ASDJKF FHJLSADR RKJF;DLK.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A FLOPPY INTO THE SLOT. IT’S HATRACK RIVER FORUM AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, SAMP. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME BAD POSTERS OR EVEN WHEN I MESS UP TECHNIQUE. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXYS MOST DANGEROUS FORUM. I CAN. I SAY IT AND I SAY IT OUTLOUD EVERYDAY TO PEOPLE IN MY COLLEGE CLASS AND ALL THEY DO IS PROVE PEOPLE IN COLLEGE CLASS CAN STILL BE IMMATURE JEKRS. AND IVE LEARNED ALL THE LINES AND IVE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE MYSELF AND MY APARTMENT LESS LONELY BY SHOUTING EM ALL. 2 HOURS INCLUDING WIND DOWN EVERY MORNIng
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
This thread needs a dash of homoeroticism.

Samprimary, this is hands down the greatest thread you have ever started. For this, I love you, you gorgeous hunk of man meat. I went over to my Jamaican neighbors and let them see your posts, and they fell in love with you as well.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
My Jamaican neighbors are ridiculously nice. I could even work near them, that's how together we are. I only see the individual.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Were your Jamaican neighbors there when you singlehandedly sailed to the rescue of the USS Cole? I imagine they'd have to be, since they're so nice, right?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
this is getting oddly specific and I would like to remind you that they are background information. talking about them pertains only to my sense of inclusiveness, anything more than that and you're just distracting from my all-eclipsing life experiences. which are about me.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
hey mormons

http://i.imgur.com/FXZlre2.png
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
I was like, I don't get it.

Then I did.
 
Posted by vineyarddawg (Member # 13007) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
I was like, I don't get it.

Then I did.

Absolutely. Alaskans like neither beer nor bacon, and are therefore horrible Americans.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
are you guys talking about those creepy walking pale things north of the wall
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
I thought we were calling it "Left Canada" now.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
hey mormons

http://i.imgur.com/FXZlre2.png

I like that.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"a segment"

- quote


http://the-toast.net/tag/a-day-in-the-life/

[ December 03, 2013, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]
 
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 
Oh, Samp. The world is too small for you.

God love ya.

(the all-caps one above? I DIE.)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by CT:
Oh, Samp. The world is too small for you.

Are you calling me FAT
 
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 
YES
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
nuts
 
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
 
jupiter is too big for you
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
that sounds wrong but i don't know enough about stars to dispute it
 
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
 
The Milky Way might be big enough, but your going to have to work out a little
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
my going to have to work out a little what
 
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 
You vixen.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
Samp: It's a minor point, but while you did attribute the original author at the end of your post, I don't think we can post articles in their entirety here. You can certainly quote a segment, but typically you should link to the article and have people read it there.

Would you please edit accordingly?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
mod abuse
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
tyrant
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
this. this is the police state. open your eyes to forum fascism, sheeple
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
first they came for the samprimary, and I said nothing
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
then they came for the 2 for 1 deals and seafood buffet, and I said nothing
 
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 
I liked the seafood buffet until I got a bad shrimp. He was quite uppity for a crustacean.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i have friends who are presently almost dying of terrific and potentially virus-based stomach disasters and nearly all of them AREN'T going to the ER because they're not insured

i'm .. almost, ALMOST getting in a fight with my friend's mom because girlfriends and roomies are reaching out for help asking how they can help their sick friends, and she's telling them to get homeopathic remedies and colloidal silver
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i'm all like heyyyyy we all love miss d, but please ignore her with extreme prejudice, have some gatorade, pedialyte, toast, bananas, applesauce
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
I get really frustrated when the inability to understand how science works (how it systematically guards against and corrects for human error) collides with some really big human error and also at the same time intersects with sickness and things that, like, medicine can fix. It is very upsetting.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Samp,

Are your friends uninsured because they are young and people in their 20s are healthy and don't need health insurance?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Yup! We're invincible. Good thing, too, because even rudimentary coverage is hard to fit on the month to month budget of your average millenial

Yay invincibility! YAY AMERICA
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
there we go, i think more people will click my title
 
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
Well played, sir. Well played.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
Samp,

Are your friends uninsured because they are young and people in their 20s are healthy and don't need health insurance?

I'm a millennial. I don't have insurance.

I'm terrified of getting sick and not having any means of getting treated.

I'm most assuredly not invincible. But I'm also broke and can't afford insurance. Young white men took the hit on Obamacare, and that's me. It's just not in my budget. I tried to sign up for Medicaid in my state but can't because I'm single with no kids. Single people can't get coverage in a lot of places. The Medicaid expansion takes effect sometime next year, but I'm hoping I have a good job by then, but there's no guarantee.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
It got me to click. Firefly + near naked Mila Kunis FTW.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Are any of you youngsters young enough to go on your parents' insurance?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Sure, for the few of them whose parents could afford to cover their kids, much less themselves, and are willing to

not so much of an option for those who did not have the good sense to elect to be born to a financially well-off family and not be estranged to them
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
there we go, i think more people will click my title

If I didn't hate you before...
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
admit it, you'd watch my firefly reboot
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I'd watch my four year old's Firefly reboot.
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
there we go, i think more people will click my title

Trap sprung [Frown]

Mila Kunis is a good actor, she'ld make a good River.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I was going to say I think she'd make a solid Inara.
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
I still think of her as whatsherface from the 70's show, has she changed physically since then?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Yes.
 
Posted by Heisenberg (Member # 13004) on :
 
Well she's like thirty instead of fifteen, so yeah she's changed quite a bit.

I also think she'd be a better Inara instead of River.

If you're looking for a younger, hotter Mila Kunis clone then Sarah Hyland is where it's at
 
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
there we go, i think more people will click my title

Trap sprung [Frown]

Mila Kunis is a good actor, she'ld make a good River.

Mila Kunis was born for comedies. I was watching the trailer for Jupiter Ascending and she looks so out of place it's almost funny.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Say what you will about Duck Dynasty, I'm at least going to give that bizarre show credit for having the appropriate response in regards to Phil Robertson's statements — they didn't dither, they canned him without delay in response to the GQ article.

Coming up next: Phil's inevitable defense by Sarah Palin about something something american freedoms
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Surely you knew Palin had already penned a defense of Robertson before you "predicted" that, right?
 
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
there we go, i think more people will click my title

You actually made me post. Dammit.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Breaking News: ignorant 67 year old Lousiana redneck bible-thumper says something homophobic and possibly racist!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Surely you knew Palin had already penned a defense of Robertson before you "predicted" that, right?

uhhhh, no, but i guess i can switch it up with "in before inevitable rant by rush limbaugh about how phil robertson ouster something something silencing because liberals"
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
haha oh my god

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/20/ian-bayne-duck-dynasty_n_4480745.html

Phil is the ROSA PARKS of the injustice of being able to be held accountable for your views
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
No, see, Sam, "Freedom of Speech," now means you get to say whatever you want and there are no consequences professionally or personally.

It's not just freedom of speech, it's freedom from the consequences of speech.
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
So aberrant behavior is something to "approve," but religious liberty and freedom of speech would be suppressed by the hypocrites of the political left. They probably think it is great that Quebec has already prosecuted Christians for the "crime" of "hate speech" simply because they quoted passages in the Bible that explicitly identify homosexual behavior as being contrary to the will of the Creator. Freedom of speech seems to be only for those who agree with liberals.

Liberals also tend to speak up in defense of Islamic jihadists, taking issue with any attempt to accurately portray them. Yet in fact Islam condemns homosexuality as a sin and a punishable crime. "In nine Muslim countries, Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, the UAE, and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty." Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

More liberal hypocrisy!
 
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
 
What's Ok about putting one's penis in a butthole? Male or female, I make no distinction. Serious question here.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
haha, it's freakin' christmas in here. Ron AND Resh, back to back?

Both of them ready to stand up, proudly, and announce to the world, "Hi, we're giant homophobes and we're TERRIFIED of gay people being allowed to consensually do sexual things in the privacy of their own homes, because gay people freak us out!:

You go, guys! Tell us all about how much anal sex upsets you!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle:
What's Ok about putting one's penis in a butthole? Male or female, I make no distinction. Serious question here.

What's okay with that is that it can be quite pleasurable and people will want to engage in it as a healthy expression of their sexual experimentation or sex life, there's nothing categorically wrong with it, it can be done quite safely, and there's no legitimate reason whatsoever to prohibit the practice!

Hooray!
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle:
What's Ok about putting one's penis in a butthole? Male or female, I make no distinction. Serious question here.

A better question IMO is, so long as the owner of said butthole and penis are both consenting, and they're not doing it any place you can see it, why should it matter to you?
 
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
 
A&E Revokes Suspension of 'Duck Dynasty' Star
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Cool! Since one side of the argument is angry at us, let's anger the other!
 
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
 
Who's angry?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Lots of people on my Facebook, apparently.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
Who's angry?

I can't imagine you are unaware that the original suspension came as a result of an uproar regarding Robertson's published remarks. And that the suspension itself elicited quite a bit of anger as well. Nothing more need be said about the reversal.
 
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
Who's angry?

I can't imagine you are unaware that the original suspension came as a result of an uproar regarding Robertson's published remarks. And that the suspension itself elicited quite a bit of anger as well. Nothing more need be said about the reversal.
Oh yeah. I'm aware. Thanks for clarifying. I think there are quite a few people who are mad but now some people will be less mad, including those who are opposed to his remarks but enjoy the show.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
are you opposed to his remarks
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
It's what Jesus wants

[ December 29, 2013, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Dogbreath ]
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Ron,

quote:
So aberrant behavior is something to "approve," but religious liberty and freedom of speech would be suppressed by the hypocrites of the political left. They probably think it is great that Quebec has already prosecuted Christians for the "crime" of "hate speech" simply because they quoted passages in the Bible that explicitly identify homosexual behavior as being contrary to the will of the Creator. Freedom of speech seems to be only for those who agree with liberals.
I know your real opposition is tied up in your religious claptrap, but nevertheless it's interesting to hear you condemn it on the basis of its being 'aberrant behavior'. Interesting because your degree of religious fervor, and the extent to which you want your religious ideas to govern everyone else in this country, is surely approaching a status just as aberrant in the broader culture as is homosexuality-if it hasn't exceeded it already.

Anyway, I know you've grown very practiced at not noticing questions you don't have good answers to, but maybe you'll take this chance to preach the word to the heathens: in what way, exactly, is this an example of freedom of speech and religious liberty being violated? I know you're capable of understanding that neither of those principles means someone can say something offensive and lose their private sector, voluntary job which hinges on publicity. I know you can grasp that, at least before you engage that part of your brain that allows you to rewrite events such that black is white and up is down. I'm remembering here the whole Kenyan debacle, and your embarrassment at the hands of Samprimary's use of your own words.

quote:
Liberals also tend to speak up in defense of Islamic jihadists, taking issue with any attempt to accurately portray them. Yet in fact Islam condemns homosexuality as a sin and a punishable crime. "In nine Muslim countries, Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, the UAE, and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty." Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam
A ridiculous citation of 'hypocrisy' since it's hardly as though 'liberals' are 'rah rah Islamic jihadist homophobia!' They tend to disapprove of it there as well.

-------------------

Reshpeckobiggle,

quote:
What's Ok about putting one's penis in a butthole? Male or female, I make no distinction. Serious question here.
I remember your screen name but not much else, so I'll treat this as you ask: a serious question. My response answer is this. Nothing.

When it's a voluntary physical exchange between adults, I don't think it's very useful to assign a moral value to it one way or another absent any other context-not unlike kissing, or vaginal intercourse. Certainly they feel shades of good to great, but I think most people would agree that the details surrounding the behavior have just as much if not more impact on whether it's 'OK' or not.

Voluntary vaginal intercourse between two consenting heterosexual adults who are nonetheless serial adulterers who engage in sexually risky behavior and endanger subsequent partners? Not 'OK' by most people's standards. Voluntary anal intercourse between two homosexual adults who have been together for years and decades and have built a life together and love one another deeply, and engage in that behavior as an expression of that love, or because they're simply horny and it's fun, or both? I think most people would agree that that is less objectionable than the adulterers on a moral basis. Even people who sternly disapprove of homosexuality, since in this case they're not lying, they're not putting other people at risk, and they're in love with one another.

So my response to you is really this: why isn't it OK? Why do people who wish to engage in this behavior need to solicit your approval? Do you have to run the sexual activity of you and your wife or husband by me and the culture at large before you go ahead? Something else to consider, and something of a red flag on your part: homosexuality isn't just limited to inserting a penis in a 'butthole'. If by some standards it's not OK for two consenting men to do that, is it alright for two women?

What's 'OK' about growing, harvesting, cleaning, cooking, and eating green beans, however prepared, anyway? Serious question. They're gross enough that anyone who likes them is bad, and should feel bad for liking them.
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
Meh, they are both business decisions. Was it a stupid comment? Absolutely. A&E had every right to get rid of him.

Likewise, people that fought to have him come back had every right to voice their opinions.

The sponsors had every right to stand by him or against him.

The sponsors chose to stand by him, and other channels offered the Robertsons a place for the show if they left A&E.

A&E made the decision to put him back on. It is the most profitable and highest rated cable show on. Not only that, but let's be honest....The majority of the Duck Dynasty viewership probably agree with Phil Robertson. Gay and Lesbian groups boycotting the show won't affect A&E at all.

I don't think this was a free speech issue at all. It was actually just capitalism doing it's thang.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
I had no idea this topic existed. What is reality.
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
Reticulum, Sam changes the name of this thread fairly frequently, often to poke fun at events going on elsewhere on the forum. It was only after you started your Einstein thread that Sam changed this thread's name to " If Reticulum were alive today, would we call him Einstein".
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Oh okay, that makes sense.

*wipes brow*

Phew!
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
I realize that your 3:54 post may have been made in jest (and your 4:03 post makes me think that it almost certainly was), but honestly I don't know how to take you, and thought that I'd err on the side of not being a jackass.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Meh, they are both business decisions. Was it a stupid comment? Absolutely. A&E had every right to get rid of him.

Likewise, people that fought to have him come back had every right to voice their opinions.

The sponsors had every right to stand by him or against him.

The sponsors chose to stand by him, and other channels offered the Robertsons a place for the show if they left A&E.

A&E made the decision to put him back on. It is the most profitable and highest rated cable show on. Not only that, but let's be honest....The majority of the Duck Dynasty viewership probably agree with Phil Robertson. Gay and Lesbian groups boycotting the show won't affect A&E at all.

I don't think this was a free speech issue at all. It was actually just capitalism doing it's thang.

While his removal could be considered an act of hyper-PC vigilance that only seeks to annoy the right, I wonder if something else is in play. I wonder if A&E suspended him in consideration for the members of the film crew and producers who might be GLBT and have to go to that guy's house (or wherever they film the show, I don't watch it) and work with him.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Hmmm, perhaps they should have said something to him, you know, to set guidelines for proper, perhaps formal expectations.

Random Food for thought:

If society never tells someone how it works, can it blame them for breaking its rules?
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Oh, and I am very alive, I'm just waiting to formally publish my theories and mathematics so that I can finally get recognition in the news, which society owes me.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I did not realize you were alive.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
If I was dead, I couldn't find a way to cure cancer. Think of it that way.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Between years 12-20, I devoted my genius to kindness and all it did was make people hate me and try to ruin to my life, in addition to calling me every name in the book.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Reticulum: You are starting (or are in the midst of) seriously cluttering the forum with all your threads. Would you please consolidate a bit more? Also, I don't hate you or want to ruin your life, and I've certainly never thought to call you a name.

That said, it never ends well when people talk about getting back at people or punishing others for their mistreatment.

Don't pass an evil along that was done to you.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Sure thing.

[ January 03, 2014, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Reticulum ]
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Perception of time = 1/Dendritic expansion(b)

The rate at which we perceive the passage of time is a function of the rate at which our Neurons and dendrites are expanding and connecting.

That is to say, a brain's perception of the rate at which time passes is inversely proportional to the rate at which our neurons and dendrites are connecting.

As we get older, our dendrites expand and connect at a decreasing rate, which makes time appear to pass faster.

If dendritic expansion is occurring at an increasing rate, then our perception of time would occur at a decreasing rate.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
The faster dendrites connect, the slower you perceive time.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
On a positive, longer term note:

There are structures and apertures inherently imbedded within the mind of man, which, upon actualization, should result in a more harmonious human society, contingent upon the acceleration of the rate at which kind acts are performed within any given population density.
 
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
 
Don't worry. Some of us do, actually, hate you. You're likely delusional. And even if you're not, you're an annoying egomaniac.
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Is it not the nature of human brains to direct their attention towards the most complex brains?

Are individuals not remembered in history in proportion to the complexity of their brains?
 
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
 
People are remembered for aberration. Sometimes it's a good aberration (Einstein), sometimes bad (Hitler), and sometimes it's just plain aberrant (Gallagher, inscrutable forum posters).
 
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
 
You're not inscrutable. You're just grandstanding and spamming the cap out of this board,seeking attention and validation.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I think most people value attention and validation so that's hardly worthy of condemnation.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Well, I think it's his means, not his motives, that are being condemned. Most people value money, too, but we still condemn bank robbers.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Reticulum,

Serious question:

Might Reticulum be having a psychotic break? About a year ago, someone started making very similar posts (the threads got deleted), and many posters replied, "Hey, you are having a psychotic break?" The poster was like "No, I'm not." Anyway, fast forward a few months later, and the poster came back on, and was like "So guys, turns out I had a psychotic break."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
reticulum do you smoke
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
tan((x-1)^2-(y-1)^2) = 1 creates a fractal.

When you discover equations for fractals, you may demand attention.

Desmos.com/calculator

Humor me here.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
do you smoke
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
reticulum do you smoke cigarettes
 
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
 
Why do you ask?
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
Reticulum,

Serious question:

Might Reticulum be having a psychotic break? About a year ago, someone started making very similar posts (the threads got deleted), and many posters replied, "Hey, you are having a psychotic break?" The poster was like "No, I'm not." Anyway, fast forward a few months later, and the poster came back on, and was like "So guys, turns out I had a psychotic break."

Yes. Same person.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
phanto and reticulum are the same person?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
They are not. Two different people.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
ok. because i think that's what theamazeeaz is referencing is the glod and mial thing, and that was a different person, who got help and is i hope doing ok, because they were doing something very similar.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
They are not. Two different people.

Really?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I think I may have confused Ret with somebody else I had to run to ground a while back, actually. For all I know, let's say it's possible that Ret is in fact phanto.

[ January 05, 2014, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Yes! The glod and mial thing with Phato. Same thing, just god themed (though now this is going that way). Some of the threads got deleted and I didn't remember the posters' name, so I couldn't search for it.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
This board really has taken a bizarre turn over the last couple weeks.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
It has been cycling through several different types of bizarre recently, that's for sure
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
In other news, I made the parmesan sticks from this webpage today.

http://brokeassgourmet.com/articles/the-wonders-of-pizza-dough

Yummy!
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
Katanas aren't "terrible swords" but they aren't close to the best either. The Desert Eagle is a terrible handgun however, unless you are playing a video game, in which case it's the only handgun you need.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I disagree. NES Zapper!
 
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
ok. because i think that's what theamazeeaz is referencing is the glod and mial thing, and that was a different person, who got help and is i hope doing ok, because they were doing something very similar.

Last post was nearly two years ago, with her apparently well on the road to recovery. I'd forgotten, but hopefully things have continued to improve in her absence.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
The Desert Eagle is a terrible handgun however, unless you are playing a video game, in which case it's the only handgun you need.

Agreed. I've never used one in real life, but it's pretty awesome in Rainbow Six: Vegas 2. I doubt any real-life handgun would be so great at getting head shots from long range.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
The Desert Eagle is a terrible handgun however, unless you are playing a video game, in which case it's the only handgun you need.

Agreed. I've never used one in real life, but it's pretty awesome in Rainbow Six: Vegas 2. I doubt any real-life handgun would be so great at getting head shots from long range.
They are the best pistol in Counterstrike and Left 4 Dead 1 | 2 as well.

I've seen them fired in real life, it's like trying to hold a mini howitzer in your hand.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
Katanas aren't "terrible swords" but they aren't close to the best either. The Desert Eagle is a terrible handgun however, unless you are playing a video game, in which case it's the only handgun you need.

It depends entirely on what you're using it for. There really is no "best" sword if you're talking about functionality because different swords are better for different situations.

The Katana and the gladius are great for fighting zombies, because they're unarmored and they are great cutting weapons, but a katana is not great against armor or the best in sword to sword combat. A claymore is going to be better at cutting armor, or those viking swords made of advanced steel.

If by best you mean the quality or manufacturing process, katanas are some of the more advanced designs, but they're not like Damascus steel or something.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
or those viking swords made of advanced steel.

Ulfbert FTW, [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
the gladius wasn't a 'great cutting weapon' — i mean, it was certainly okay at it but it isn't weighted or shaped to be good at it and it certainly wasn't designed around swings and slashes.

That's okay though because how you were trained to use it (stabs and thrusts from stomach level) was better and more useful most of the time anyway

the katana wasn't exactly a great cutting weapon either (suboptimal weight distribution, draws too much, heavy) but it is considered a 'great cutting weapon' because it certainly was not a great thrusting weapon.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
The Desert Eagle is a terrible handgun however, unless you are playing a video game, in which case it's the only handgun you need.

Agreed. I've never used one in real life, but it's pretty awesome in Rainbow Six: Vegas 2. I doubt any real-life handgun would be so great at getting head shots from long range.
They are the best pistol in Counterstrike and Left 4 Dead 1 | 2 as well.
Also in the great Rogue Spear of olde it squared off against the HK USP .45 as the best pistol to carry in your kit.

there is probably a wide list of games in which the .50 is the best pistol, but a much wider game in which katana is bestest ever
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
The Desert Eagle was also one of the best games in Golden Eye on the Nintendo 64...Especially the "Golden Deagle"
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the gladius wasn't a 'great cutting weapon' — i mean, it was certainly okay at it but it isn't weighted or shaped to be good at it and it certainly wasn't designed around swings and slashes.

That's okay though because how you were trained to use it (stabs and thrusts from stomach level) was better and more useful most of the time anyway

the katana wasn't exactly a great cutting weapon either (suboptimal weight distribution, draws too much, heavy) but it is considered a 'great cutting weapon' because it certainly was not a great thrusting weapon.

My understanding of the katana is that it's a huge razor blade, and if used correctly, not just with slashes but a slash and pull movement, it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.

Then it must be pretty awful.
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
I was reading an article about it. The synopsis is this:
- Sword fighting styles were developed around the strengths and weaknesses of each blade.
- Most major blades have both strengths and weaknesses.
- The styles evolved to exploit strengths and minimize weaknesses.
- The katana style and blade are both some of the most highly evolved in Asian history.

The article made an argument that used with (approximately) six inch cutting depth overhead slashes, against a minimally armored opponent, it can be very effective. But it is mostly a Pokemon argument. Fire beats grass but loses against water. It just depends on who you're fighting and the circumstances surrounding your brawl.
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.

Then it must be pretty awful.
Whatever. Lightsabers are awesome. They're not real (yet), but they're awesome.
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/ralph/gun-review-magnum-research-iwi-desert-eagle-mark-xix-50ae/

So, the Desert Eagle is terrible from a perspective of practicality. But it sure sounds like fun.

What's the goal of a gun, short of zombie apocalypse anyway? Sounds like a good choice, if you can afford the ammo.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
The Desert Eagle was also one of the best games in Golden Eye on the Nintendo 64...Especially the "Golden Deagle"

there was no deagle or golden deagle in n64 and the best pistols aside from the goldens/silvers was the DD44 Dostovei and the Cougar Magnum. The Cougar Magnum was based off of probably the Ruger Blackhawk which i am not sure but probably can be counted as a beastlier weapon than the desert eagle 50
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/ralph/gun-review-magnum-research-iwi-desert-eagle-mark-xix-50ae/

So, the Desert Eagle is terrible from a perspective of practicality. But it sure sounds like fun.

What's the goal of a gun, short of zombie apocalypse anyway? Sounds like a good choice, if you can afford the ammo.

If you just want something to shoot for fun and can afford the ammo then yes, it's an interesting gun. Though I would argue that a .22 can be even more fun and a fraction of the cost.

For any actual combat or defense uses, it's junk. Too big, too heavy, too much recoil, unreliable, unobtainable ammo, on and on and on. Sure it would be better than nothing, I'd take it over a stick but I'd rather have a good .22. For an experienced shooter, a good old .45 is tough to beat. For the less experienced, 9mm is the way to go.

Also keep in mind that in any combat or Zombie situation, a pistol should be a back-up. You really want a rifle or shotgun as your primary weapon and why would you want your back-up weapon to be the biggest, heaviest one around? It would be like a heavy machine gunner dragging around a six foot, two handed broadsword as his pocket knife.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
I really miss playing that game.
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
I always wanted to get a mosin-nagant myself. Cheap, easy to maintain, easy to get the bullets for, and pretty practical all around.

Followed up by an AK.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.

Then it must be pretty awful.
Whatever. Lightsabers are awesome. They're not real (yet), but they're awesome.
That's my point. They're. Not. Real.
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
The Desert Eagle was also one of the best games in Golden Eye on the Nintendo 64...Especially the "Golden Deagle"

there was no deagle or golden deagle in n64 and the best pistols aside from the goldens/silvers was the DD44 Dostovei and the Cougar Magnum. The Cougar Magnum was based off of probably the Ruger Blackhawk which i am not sure but probably can be counted as a beastlier weapon than the desert eagle 50
I was thinking of the Dostovei...

http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.

Then it must be pretty awful.
Whatever. Lightsabers are awesome. They're not real (yet), but they're awesome.
That's my point. They're. Not. Real.
Think again!

http://www.webpronews.com/real-lightsaber-science-has-made-star-wars-reality-2013-09
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
The Desert Eagle was also one of the best games in Golden Eye on the Nintendo 64...Especially the "Golden Deagle"

there was no deagle or golden deagle in n64 and the best pistols aside from the goldens/silvers was the DD44 Dostovei and the Cougar Magnum. The Cougar Magnum was based off of probably the Ruger Blackhawk which i am not sure but probably can be counted as a beastlier weapon than the desert eagle 50
I was thinking of the Dostovei...

http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle

The DD44 dostovei was not based on the desert eagle. it was based on a russian pistol called the tokarev.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
now if only we knew what the golden gun was based on...
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
now if only we knew what the golden gun was based on...

In the novel, it's just a gold plated .45 revolver, nothing all that special. Movie gun was a bit different [Big Grin]
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
it's basically the best cutting blade short of a light saber.

Then it must be pretty awful.
Whatever. Lightsabers are awesome. They're not real (yet), but they're awesome.
That's my point. They're. Not. Real.
Think again!

http://www.webpronews.com/real-lightsaber-science-has-made-star-wars-reality-2013-09

quote:
There is no mention of turning this new tool into a weapon in comparison with the lightsaber in Star Wars, but Lukin also suggests the breakthrough could one day lead to technologies that allow for the creation of complex 3D structures, like crystals, made out of light.
Uh, from what I can tell about the article, if you shoot lasers at cold rubidium atoms, they stick together.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
now if only we knew what the golden gun was based on...

In the novel, it's just a gold plated .45 revolver, nothing all that special. Movie gun was a bit different [Big Grin]
I always forget there were novels of Bond, and it has been a long time since I've seen the movie, tho I meant the game since most of theirs were modeled on real ones. But the Golden Gun doesn't seem to be. Then again I know very little about real guns.

Are the novels very good?
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
I've got 'REPLICA' written on the blade of my katana... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
The novels are good. But "book Bond" and "movie Bond" are very different creatures.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Y:
I've got 'REPLICA' written on the blade of my katana

best post in thread imo
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Uh, from what I can tell about the article, if you shoot lasers at cold rubidium atoms, they stick together. [/QB]
no force attuned crystals, not a lightsaber

also *pushes glasses up nose* i DO believe portability is at issue with this supposed cutting weapon.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Y:
I've got 'REPLICA' written on the blade of my katana... [Big Grin]

I need to watch that movie again.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
now if only we knew what the golden gun was based on...

In the novel, it's just a gold plated .45 revolver, nothing all that special. Movie gun was a bit different [Big Grin]
I always forget there were novels of Bond, and it has been a long time since I've seen the movie, tho I meant the game since most of theirs were modeled on real ones. But the Golden Gun doesn't seem to be. Then again I know very little about real guns.

Are the novels very good?

The movie gun was a single shot pistol assembled from disguised parts. The barrel was a gold pen, other parts included a gold cigarette case, lighter and cufflinks for the trigger.

My dad was a fan of the novels but I only ever read like one or two and that was a LONG time ago. I think I might have been 8 at the time (40 now).
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I picked up the Bond novels -- all of them -- when Amazon had a Kindle sale a few years back. Some of them are quite good, while others are awesomely terrible. Only a couple are outright dull.
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
TomDavidson: Is this in regard to the entire main series? Or just the Fleming-written novels? I've only read the Fleming novels, and they were consistently good (IMO). They're a little light and fluffy, but I don't remember a lull in the action.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
The Fleming ones, sorry; I don't consider the others to be Bond novels.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Yeah they start getting pretty bad. I stopped reading after that one in the series where Bond has become a giant immortal worm who spends all his time killing Duncan Idahos.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
boy ron lambert, reshpeckobiggle, and capax sure left us hanging on some good questions huh

what a suuuurpriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/PL4y8uS.gif

whatever here's a picture what's happening everybody
 
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
 
What's the "good" question I didn't answer?
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Put down the paddles and step away from the thread.

It's time to call it.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
Oh yeah. I'm aware. Thanks for clarifying. I think there are quite a few people who are mad but now some people will be less mad, including those who are opposed to his remarks but enjoy the show.

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
are you opposed to his remarks


 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Put down the paddles and step away from the thread.

It's time to call it.

don't make me turn this into the next last post thread
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
It isn't already? <looks around and shrugs>
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
Sherlock was terrible. Discuss.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Like, the show? Or the most recent episode?
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
The recent premiere. It was so funny and I wanted so much to like it, but I feel like the writers failed to tell anything resembling a coherent story.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i could see either argument. i mean i loved watching the first two seasons but rewatches are kind of tedious especially that ~mystic asians~ and their ~mystic asian secret society of asia~ episode yeesh
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
i could see either argument. i mean i loved watching the first two seasons but rewatches are kind of tedious especially that ~mystic asians~ and their ~mystic asian secret society of asia~ episode yeesh

Hey. They had those back then! They died out along with everything else during the Cultural Revolution. [Wink]
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
The recent premiere. It was so funny and I wanted so much to like it, but I feel like the writers failed to tell anything resembling a coherent story.

It was an unapologetic nod to fanficcers. Not my favorite, but given it's self awareness I don't mind it. The next two are better.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I thought you were talking about How I Met Your Mother.
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
Sam- Yeesh, indeed. I keep blocking that one out.

Lyrhawn- I definitely recognized the fan-service, for lack of a better word. And who wouldn't, considering how many characters Sherlock makes out with? But I think I would have appreciated it more if it weren't this particular episode. The Moriarty cliffhanger was so emotional, and I just feel like they should have respected how much of themselves the audience had invested in it. And I think almost all humor works better if, as I said, the story follows something like a coherent path.

That said, they're good writers and I'm looking forward to the next episode. I expected it to be better than the premiere, so I'm glad to hear that it will be.
 
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
The next two episodes are better. After watching everything twice and then reading a few breakdown/theory posts, I'm tentatively excited about the next season. It will all depend on whether the subtle clues in this season were deliberate or not. If the next season builds on them and is great, then it will retroactively make this one amazing.


--Mel
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i'm over here being super crippled and awfully ill and most of the time all i can do is halfheartedly browse while on my side and nobody's posting anything, argh, post more

i don't have the energy (or the fine motor control) to spur on contentious debate anymore, someone else has to carry the pitchforks for me.

well i guess i could try

uhh, firefly sucks, you're dumb and inferior if you own a gaming console, sherlock is terrible and benedict cumberbatch has a sissy voice and is totally ugly, and this forum should have large avatars and signatures
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
.. something ... mormon ... jello, lol
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
Jello is good, and should not have bananas in it. That's just wasteful
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
Sugar-free pudding tastes like regular pudding. I found this out just before I threw away all the other cups because I don't eat sugar-free stuff.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
My NES is awesome. Don't knock. I'm beating all the games I couldn't manage when I was 10.

I have to say, I die all the time with it, still. It's either extremely pathetic, or newer games make it a lot harder to die.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
some old games ... hell, many old games are just insanely hard. it was a time before focus group qa.

remember battletoads?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
like i remember being a kid and playing all these nes and sega games and feeling stupid and useless and i must just suck at games.

later on I'm 24 and playing them on emulator and thinking "wait one minute how did anyone expect normal people to beat this ever"
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Well, I put my name on the waiting list for the Zelda strategy guide from the public library. Several weeks later, it came in, and I had help for a while, and then I had to return it, and request it through ILL again. Lather, rinse, repeat, 3 or 4 times.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
some old games ... hell, many old games are just insanely hard. it was a time before focus group qa.

remember battletoads?

I loved the Battletoads pause music

I wish I had the music skills necessary to remix that into modern dance music. I can practically heard the dubstep version.
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
My cousin is a writer who is in the process of playing and reviewing every NES game that was released in North America. It seems like a vast percentage of them were darn near unplayable. But he's playing them, laws love him.

Questicle
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
some old games ... hell, many old games are just insanely hard. it was a time before focus group qa.

remember battletoads?

That damned game. I had to wait a long time until I could convince my parents to buy a game genie so I could get through that one without breaking down in a heap.
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
Battletoads was hard but beatable; it just required repetition. The problem was that some of the levels (driving) were disproportionately hard compared to the others.

The real issue wasn't that it was hard, it was that the difficulty level was so high in a broad, commercially popular game. It was so over the top that most people felt it was broken.

Meh. I beat it without too much trouble. Ghosts N' Goblins was way harder.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Ghosts N' Goblins? Please. Super Ghouls and Ghosts was where the difficulty was at.

Also I find it hilarious that the Wii emulator software can't render the game as well as the original Genesis. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
Please don't remind me of Super Ghouls and Ghosts... I can't begin to count the number of lives I have lost in that game. [Frown]
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
like i remember being a kid and playing all these nes and sega games and feeling stupid and useless and i must just suck at games.

I was into Commodore 64, Amiga, and PC games rather than consoles, but yeah--while I was never hard on myself about it at all, I just took it as a given that I wouldn't always be able to beat a game. I'd get as far as I could, beat my head against the game's wall for a week or so trying to get past whatever the problem was, and then give up and move on to a different game.

[Edit - I'd also often tag team a game with friends, handing the contoller or keyboard off to one another as we collectively tried to get over this or that hump.]
 
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Ghosts N' Goblins? Please. Super Ghouls and Ghosts was where the difficulty was at.

Whoa now. Stand down. We were talking about the 8-bit generation.

If we were talking about the hardest game ever, I would have started blabbling about Nethack until my drool lied in a pool on my stool.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Ghosts N' Goblins? Please. Super Ghouls and Ghosts was where the difficulty was at.

Whoa now. Stand down. We were talking about the 8-bit generation.

If we were talking about the hardest game ever, I would have started blabbling about Nethack until my drool lied in a pool on my stool.

I think Ninja Turtles on the NES was at least as hard as Battletoads.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match-confirmed-as-rapper-the-game-offers-to-fight-him-i-would-take-pleasure-in-it-9098750.html

zimmerman's Punch Out
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
"I think we've all been there, jobless with nothing but a bucket of hotdogs, a block of processed cheese, a van, an American flag, and a goddamn dream.

Or at least that was my initial impression. Since the campaign started, the guy has actually built his kitchen (look at the updates!), done some hotdog catering, set up his entire supply chain, and he appears to have his budget planned very well, albeit with the help of "How to Start a Hotdog Cart" eBooks. He's got a dream, man, and none of us and not even the devil himself is going to be able to stop him. Unlike a lot of crappy Kickstarters, I believe this is going to happen with or without our funding. This guy is Forrest Gump and his shrimping boat/hotdog stand might as well be built right next to the Field of Dreams. I don't mean to imply that he's an idiot, but that I admire his blind confidence and hotdog faith.

I come from Hipsterville where we only eat hotdogs ironically, as a joke, so that other people can look at us and say "Haha. That's hilarious. Let me take an Instagram of that. Imagine if you ate hotdogs and actually liked them." So this campaign touches me in ways both mystical and nostalgic. It makes me yearn for the days when I could eat bad food unironically and wear plaid because it's warm and because lumberjacks are cool, not because I'm trying to convey some dumb hidden message. Every time you eat a hotdog, you get to become a kid again for two minutes.

The hotdogs are hilarious, but I genuinely hate it when people get flak for "trying too hard." We badly need more people who try too hard. It's the most foolish insult to say, "I dislike you because I dislike effort." We are a generation of people who were told their entire lives by nurturing, caring, hippie parents they we are all geniuses. Every boy a wonderboy. Every child above average. But rare is a parent who doesn't care about test scores and IQs, but instead praises their kid only for trying and failing. Effort, man. Effort. That matters so much more than innate intelligence, than knowledge, than wit. You should try to do new things even when (hell, especially when) you think you will fail. This man is trying hard, with all his might, for an aspiration that isn't even lofty. It's humble man wanting for a reachable goal involving the most meager of foods in the tiniest of towns in the poorest of states.

Yeah, I'll be damned if I'm going to dislike a guy for trying too hard. It's apparent that he has turned to crowdfunding only because he has already put every spare dollar he owns into this business. I might not believe in the superior deliciousness of Doobie's hotdogs, but I want to believe in them. And I would eat one.

Another thing is that this appears to be a very small town where the median household income is 20 grand and the most prominent restaurant is a Subway. A hotdog stand, of all things, could affect real change there. It's a good story: The unfeeling internet hordes pulling together to fund a rural hotdog stand in Reform, Alabama. That is something I want to be part of. "Doobie's Dog House" is a name worthy of headlines. I want confused journalists to try to figure out what the **** happened, why it happened, and how they can possibly convey the idea of crowdfunding to their readers. It'll be like when CNN tries to explain memes. At the very least, this has the potential to make an entire town wonder about Something Awful. Someday, I would like to drive to Doobie's Dog House, eat a hotdog, and think of goons.

To finally answer your question about our motivations, it's definitely the third option. We are good and bad meats processed together and extruded as 6 foot tall tubes, both cynical and kind, complicated and salty. Goons are actual hotdogs. I pledged $25 for both entertainment and charity. If this works and there's a hungry Alabama goon who wants my hotdogs, they can have them. Just please take pictures so it's like a child sponsorship charity, only for meat tubes instead of impoverished children. If the Kickstarter fails, then I will have paid nothing and told a guy that I admire his efforts and his gumption."


goons power doobie's dog house (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/657642328/doobies-dog-house) to fruition

So, I contributed to this campaign and have been following Doobie on Facebook ever since. Doobie's Dog House opened last week, and has had an incredible amount of support from the local community. They had to close early on Saturday because they literally ran out of food to sell people. You can visit the Facebook Page to see some pictures of the place.

Incidentally, he's been more or less constantly harassed for half a year by people from the SA forums. Posting fake (bad) reviews of his establishment, posting racist and hateful messages on his page, and otherwise telling him he's a loser/failure/no good redneck, and disparaging him and his family. I honestly have no idea why they chose him to pick on, but I think it's despicable.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Incidentally, he's been more or less constantly harassed for half a year by people from the SA forums. Posting fake (bad) reviews of his establishment, posting racist and hateful messages on his page, and otherwise telling him he's a loser/failure/no good redneck, and disparaging him and his family.
which goons are these? I haven't seen what GBS has been up to since the rules revisit but prior to that, SA was a huge part in making doobie's dog house happen, and what i posted was, in fact, from SA. were some other goons trying to derail that? or did they get fed up with doobie's (frequent) ineptitude over things like hood installation
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Other goons trying to derail it. You can go on and see the handful of comments that haven't been deleted if you want to see who.

FWIW, the dude managed to completely renovate his place of business, get a perfect score on his department of health inspection, build a business model, get contracts with Coca-Cola and other vendors, set up food delivery, build his own furniture/light fixtures, and have a grand opening within 7 months. And he did this with $14,000, doing most of the work and installation himself. Working another job on the side. That's not what I would call "inept". How many KS projects have a 7 month turnaround time?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
trust me, the doob had some .. rough spots in terms of being able to manage his business as a kickstarter return. it really almost got unrailed because he couldn't manage his own business model with even an outpouring of cash from SA and other sources.

he persevered though so i guess eat it haters. eat the delicious hotdogs

next up: RETURN ON STAR CITIZEN INVESTMENT?????? (??)
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Eh, this may seem a little strange, but when I saw his poorly written Kickstarter - made by an impoverished man with an (at best) high school level education, I didn't think "here is a great business manager!" But despite any flaws, he managed to accomplish his goal. He owns literally the only locally owned restaurant in Reform. He's now self employed, and has a means of bringing his family up out of poverty. He's been talking about hiring an employee, so he has a means of employing at least one other person in his town. And he's located right on the highway so he's bringing in a significant amount of revenue, too. Most importantly, he actually accomplished everything he set out to do in his KS in (IMO) a reasonable amount of time, and managed to start a business that will dramatically improve his and his family's lives, as well as improve an entire community. All for $14,000. That's not too shabby. I really don't understand where all this intense hatred for the man is coming from.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
what intense hatred

all i'm seeing is just general low-level mockery akin to the Terrible Webcomics Thread
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
???

Look at some of the fake reviews, or how every announcement on his page harassing comments. Granted, the bad ones usually get deleted, but these pop up in my Facebook home from time to time. People mocking him and his wife. Calling him stupid. Making up lies about him and his restaurant. Keep in mind this is a public page, and most of the members are his friends and customers. They're directly attacking his ability to make a living with this "low-level mockery."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i think i am failing to look in the right places. are these SA users confirming what they are doing somewhere i can check, or is this a case of Alleged Goon where we're talking about stuff offsite?
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
My favorite NES game to this day is still River City Rampage.

Gang War? Check.

Kidnapping? Check.

8 bit nudity? Check.

Beating rival gang members with trash cans, boxes, lead pipes, sticks, baseballs, and even other gang members? Check.

Going into a restaurant and getting a free smile? Check.

Flipping around with a move called "Astro Circus? YEP.

I still love that game. It wasn't hard, but so enjoyable. Which is why I donated to the kickstarter for River City Rampage 2.

The hardest NES games I have played? Ninja Gaiden, Battletoads, TMNT, and Low G man. I don't think I ever passed the second level of Low G man. I beat Battletoads, TMNT, and Ninja Gaiden a few times.

Supposedly the hardest NES game of all time is The Silver Surfer. From what I have heard nobody has legitimately been able to beat it yet.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I will have to keep that one in mind as an actual decent game. The two local used stores have crap selections (well one of them didn't used to, I bought everything that they had that was worth owning). I prefer to support local businesses.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
boy today is going to be a long day
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
SA-22
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. A facing consisting of a treated polyester film bonded to the paper side of paperbacked aluminum foil.

SA-66
Polyester film laminated to aluminum foil bonded to .035 pulp board. Application: Good barrier for shampoos, hand creams, mouthwashes or pharmaceutical products.

Safe-Gard 100
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. SG-100 has a two-piece welded construction with a tamper indicating feature. An innerseal which provides a fused, tamper indicating foil seal over the mouth of P/E containers. Safe-Gard 100 is preferred by the pharmaceutical industry for its "easy entry" feature. The SG-100 foil membrane is easily ruptured, a critical consideration for geriatric care. SG-100 is white lined pulpboard wax-bonded to an innerseal consisting of .001" aluminum foil with a .0015" heat sealable film. Typical packaging applications include innerseals for dry drink mixes, vitamins, over-the-counter drugs, etc. Equivalent liners: Selig FoilSeal 1-17, Sancap HS702, Tekniplex HS123.

Safe-Gard 101
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. SG-101 has a two-piece welded construction with a tamper indicating feature. It is the same as SG-100, but SG-101 is used on P/P containers. Commonly supplied as white lined pulpboard wax-bonded to an innerseal consisting of .001" aluminum foil with a .0015" heat sealable film. Typical packaging applications include innerseals for dry drink mixes, over-the-counter drugs, cosmetics, etc.

Safe-Gard 102
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. SG-102 has a two-piece welded construction with a tamper indicating feature. It is the same as SG-100, but SG-102 is used on P/S containers. It is designed to allow an easy push-through opening feature. SG-102 is composed of white lined pulpboard wax-bonded to .001" aluminum foil with a .002" heat sealable layer. Typical packaging applications include innerseals for dry products such as over-the-counter drugs.

Safe-Gard 105
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. A two piece peelable liner with an easy open feature. SG-105 provides a tamper indicating seal over the mouth of P/E and glass containers. It combines excellent barrier properties and an easily ruptured foil membrane. SG-105 is commonly supplied wax-bonded to .035" white lined pulpboard with a facing consisting of a .0015" polyolefin inomer coated on .0015" aluminum foil. SG-105 is ideal for OTC drugs, semi-solid spreads, peanut butter, drink mixes and salad dressings.

Safe-Gard 108
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. A one piece peelable liner with a tamper indicating feature. SG-108 provides a seal over the mouth of P/E, PVC, PET, P/P, P/S and ABS containers. It is a one piece innerseal with "clean peel" characteristics, making it ideal for use in dispenser, closure and pourable liquid applications. It features a broad sealing range, superior handling properties and excellent barrier characteristics for food applications requiring extended shelf life. Typical packaging applications include innerseals used in conjunction with dispensing closures on plastic containers of ketchup, mustard, relish, barbeque sauce, jelly, ice cream toppings, honey, etc. Other uses include OTC drugs, fruit juices, milk, water, glass cleaner, etc.

Safe-Gard 490
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. SG-490 is a two piece peelable innerseal. It provides a hermetic seal against leaks, contamination and oxidation on glass bottles.

Safe-Gard 602
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. When Safe-Gard 18EP is supplied as a facing only, it is called Safe-Gard 602. See Safe-Gard 18EP for composition and typical uses.

Safe-Gard 603
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. Safe-Gard 603 is a .003" aluminum foil version of the Safe-Gard 18EP facing. See Safe-Gard 18EP for composition and uses.

Safe-Gard 634
A one-piece variation of Safe-Gard 18EP which provides a peelable or strippable seal over the mouths of P/E, P/P, PVC, P/S and ABS containers. SG 634 is frequently used for pull-tab innerseal applications. It is also supplied as a two-piece innerseal, wax bonded to a .030" pulpboard backing, for applications where a high quality, chemically resistant closure liner must remain in the cap for re-seal purposes. See SG 18EP for composition. Uses include pull-tab innerseals on plastic milk, water and juice containers. If the tab is folded over inside the cap, another product, CAG Release Paper, can be used as a back-up liner to prevent the tab's heat-sealable surface from sealing to the inside of the cap. The two-piece version described in the paragraph above is used in packaging liquid drugs.

Safe-Gard 635
A one-piece variation of Safe Gard 18EP which provides a peelable or strippable seal over the mouths of P/E, P/P, PVC, P/S and ABS containers. Safe-Gard 635 is frequently used for pull-tab innerseal applications. See SG 18EP for technical information. SG 635 is commonly used as a pull-tab innerseal on plastic milk, water and juice containers. If the tab is folded over inside the cap, a companion product, CAG Release Paper, can be used as a back-up liner to prevent the heat-sealable surface on the tab from sealing to the inside of the cap.

Safe-Gard 75M
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. An innerseal which provides a fused, tamper indicating seal on P/E containers. It is designed for use in plastic closures. It is white lined pulpboard wax-bonded to an innerseal consisting of .001" aluminum foil with a .002" heat sealable polyester film. Safe-Gard 75M offers excellent chemical resistance and superior barrier properties as well as a tough durable seal. It has broad market acceptance for use with industrial chemicals, automotive products, pharmaceutical and food products. Typical packaging applications include innerseals for orange juice, patent drugs, windshield washer solution, anti-freeze, motor oil, household cleaners, insecticides, herbicides, etc.

Safe-Gard 90
A Unipac (formerly 3M Cap-Seal) product. An innerseal which provides a fused, tamper indicating foil seal over the mouth of PET and PVC containers. SG 90 is the industry standard for edible oils packaged in PVC containers. Safe-Gard 90 is white lined pulpboard wax-bonded to an innerseal consisting of .001" aluminum foil with a .005" heat sealable polyester film. It can be supplied as facing only. The excellent barrier properties and broad induction sealing range make this product ideal for applications in the food industry. Typical packaging applications include innerseals for vegetable oils, mouthwash, etc.

SAN
Styrene acrylonitrile. Thermoplastic copolymer with good stiffness, scratch, chemical and stress-crack resistance. Similar to general purpose polystrene except for improved impact resistance and barrier properties; increased rigidity and UV stability; natural straw color; transparent.

Saralene
Manufactured by SANCAP Liner Technology, Inc. Saralene is a white pigmented or clear vinylidene chloride-vinyl chloride copolymer film laminated to P/S foam on one side and P/E film on the other side. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, deodorant (cream), glass wax, peroxide, poison ivy lotion, shampoo, concentrated coffee, corn oil, cough syrup, alcohol and fruit extracts.

Scoops
A wide variety is available, including P/P and P/E measuring scoops, PET powder scoops and P/P double-end scoops.

Screw-Thread Vial
A vial with a very short neck and an outside screw-thread finish.

Sealing Discs
Various sizes to fit most single and double wall jars, and cosmetic cases. Options include embossing and with or without tabs.

Sealing Surface
That portion of a glass or plastic container finish which will make contact with the interior liner of the cap to effect the seal.

Seam on Top/Side of Finish
A finish defect. A fin of glass across the top or the side of the finish.

Seamless
Made in one piece without a joint.

Sept Seal
Manufactured by SANCAP Liner Technology, Inc. SEPT SEAL is a backing material to which facings are laminated in the manufacture of duplex liners. Is is a heat sealable film coated with P/E.

Serum Vial
A vial having a neck with a relatively small opening to receive a rubber plug stopper and aluminum seal.

SFYP
When pressure sensitive or heat induction liners are printed with the words "SEALED FOR YOUR PROTECTION".

Shape
In RapidFind, Shape is one of the search criteria. In the Glass and Plastic product types, Shape refers to the shape of the bottom of the container. Shape is not a search criteria in the Closure product type.

Shear Marks
A general defect. C-shaped marks making a definite line in the glass.

Sheeting
Polyethylene, rubber, Lexan, and acrylic sheeting.

Shelfline
A line of glass containers (used by drug and chemical companies) that was designed to give the packer specific advantages on label space, maximum size, appearance and easy pouring, combining the best features of Boston Round and F-style containers.

Shell Vial
A cylindrical container, usually made of glass, characterized by having straight sides, being neckless, and having a flat bottom. Made by sealing one end of a glass tube of appropriate diameter and length.

Shingling
Solvents leaching through a plastic container.

Shoulder
(1) That part of a container between the main body and the neck. (2) That portion of a closure immediately adjacent to and including the corner where top and skirt join. (3) In a can, an off-set on a straight side to act as a stop or support.

Shoulder Check
A shoulder defect. A check which is shallow and in the surface, usually wavy in appearance.

Shrink Bands
Stock and custom sizes of PVC and PETG shrink bands, including tamper evident, seamless and seamed bands, cellulose self-sealing bands and Viscose Celon shrink bands. Options include printing and color decoration.

Shrink Labels & Bands
Pre-decorated plastic sleeves that are slipped over the container and heated until they conform to the surface of the container. Same principle as the sleeve label, but superior for odd and small shapes.

Sicocote 250A
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. White paper PVDC - polyethylene. Sicocote 250A is a construction of white pigmented P/E and polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC) on a bleached Kraft paper. Color: White. Suggested product uses include concentrated coffee, corn oil, fruit extract, alcohol, after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, cough syrup, cream deodorant, glass wax, starch, poison ivy lotion and radiator compound.

Sicocote 255A
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. White paper - polyethylene PVDC. Sicocote 255A is a construction of white P/E and polyvinylidene (PVDC) on a bleached Kraft paper. Color: Bleach Kraft Paper. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, cough syrup, hand soap, hair shampoo, concentrated coffee, glass wax, fruit extract, syrup and vinegar.

Sicocote 260
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Natural Kraft paper PVCD polyethylene. Sicocote 260 is a construction of clear P/E and polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC) on a natural Kraft paper. Color: Natural. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, cough syrup, hand soap, poison ivy lotion, hair shampoo, alcohol, concentrated coffee, corn oil, syrup, fruit extract, vinegar and radiator compound.

Sicocote 265
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Natural Kraft paper - polyethylene - PVDC. Sicocote 265 is a construction of clear P/E and polyvinlidene chloride (PVDC) on a natural Kraft paper. Color: Natural. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, cough syrup, hand soap, poison ivy lotion, hair shampoo, concentrated coffee, corn oil, fruit extract, syrup, vinegar and radiator compound.

Sicocote 417
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Paper-backed aluminum foil with a heavy Saran coating. Sicocote 417 consists of a paper-backed aluminum foil with two coatings applied - a vinyl first coat and a saran second (top) coat. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, astringent, baby cream, beauty cream, cologne, deodorant stick, hair cream, hair shampoo, antacid liquids, mineral oil, floor cleaner and polish, furniture cleaner and polish, waxing compound and auto cleaner and polish.

Sicocote 470
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Saran coated white paper. Sicocote 470 is a pigmented copolymer vinylidene chloride-acrylonitrile coating on a suitably primed white paper. Color: White. Suggested product uses include concentrated coffee, cottage cheese, mayonnaise, mustard, salad dressing, wine, cough syrup, mineral oil, liquid shoe polish, floor cleaner, hair dye, pine oil disinfectant and liquid shoe polish.

Sicocote 700
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Paper-backed polyethylene coated aluminum foil. Sicocote 700 is a paper-backed aluminum foil coated with a white pigmented P/E. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cologne, cream deodorants, cough syrup, olives, pickles, automotive polish, bleaching fluid, brake fluid, rubber cement, disinfectant, furniture polish, paint and solvents.

Sicocote 708
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Paper-backed vinyl coated aluminum foil, with a slightly heavier coating of vinyl than Sicofoil. Sicocote 708 is a paper-backed aluminum foil liner coated with a pigmented vinyl chloride-acetate copolymer applied as a two coat system. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, astringent, facial cream, cream deodorant, hair cream, shampoo, antacid preparations, floor cleaner, bleach, liquid detergent, mustard, vegetable oil and whiskey.

Sicofoam
Manaufactured by SANCAP Liner Technology, Inc. Sicofoam is a backing material to which facings are laminated in the manufacture of duplex liners. It is a P/E foam which is extruded to the thickness desired.

Sicofoil
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. Paper-backed vinyl coated aluminum foil. Sicofoil is a paper-backed aluminum foil liner coated with a pigmented solution of vinyl chloride-acetate copolymer. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, astringent, baby cream, beauty cream, deodorant stick, hair cream, shampoo, cleaners and polishes, waxing compound and vegetable oil.

Sicoran WS
A SANCAP Liner Technology product. White pigmented Saran film on white paper. Sicoran WS is a white pigmented vinylidene chloride - vinyl chloride copolymer film mounted on white Kraft paper. Color: White. Suggested product uses include after shave lotion, cold cream, cologne, cough syrup, cream deodorant, hand soap, poison ivy lotion, hair shampoo, tincture of iodine, alcohol, concentrated coffee, corn oil, fruit extract, glass wax, starch and radiator compound.

Sifter Fitment
A plastic or metal component of a package designed to allow shaking out of dry products, as with a table salt shaker. Snaps over bead, with metal or plastic cap applied over the fitment.

Silkscreening
A method of printing in which the ink is forced through a design on a taut screen, made of nylon, wire, or other tough screen material, onto the container to be printed. This method can be applied to closures, liners and most containers regardless of shape or size.

Size
In SourceBase, Size is one of the search criteria. In the Glass and Plastic product types, Size refers to the nominal capacity of a bottle or jar. The nominal capacity is the intended capacity of the container. It is expressed in fluid ounces (oz), gallons (gal), milliliters (ml), drams, etc. In the Closure product type, Size refers to the outside diameter of a bottle or jar's neck finish, including the threads. The size is usually designated in millimeters (mm).

Skirt
The vertical part of a closure below the shoulder.

Sleeve Label
A decorated, plastic label made into a tubular form that fits over and on plastic bottles.

Slip Cap
(1) A metal closure with indentations on its sides to make a friction fit on a vial with a slip-cap finish. (2) A closure made of soft material such as polyethylene or rubber, without threads, to be pushed over the tip or neck of a container and held in place by friction.

Snap Top
The most prevalent hinged closure. This closure features a spud and orifice design that is sanitary and self cleaning to prevent clogging. It is available in a wide range of orifice sizes. The snap type can also be designed with an off center spout to direct product flow. The pour spout can be easily lined with a variety of heat sealed materials to ensure product freshness.

SoftSeal 200
Foamed EVA core with top and bottom layers of .002" thick low density polyethylene.

Solid Poly
Solid low density polyethylene.

Source-Certified
Within the context of raw material use, source-certified refers to materials that have been certified through programs run by organizations including, but not limited to, the Forest Stewardship Council and the Sustainable Forestry Initiative.

Sourcing
Sourcing, as used in the indicator definitions, refers to and includes all of the functions involved in the growth, harvest or extraction and processing or raw materials and the collection and processing of recycled and reused materials.

Space Saver
Refers to any pharmaceutical package such as the shelfline or blake style bottle which, because of it rectangular shape, takes up less storage space on the druggist's shelf.

Spatulas
Varieties for the cosmetics, pharmaceutical, food and laboratory markets.

Specimen Mailers
Fiberboard, paper screw-cap and aluminum specimen mailers.

Spike
A bottom defect. A small projection of glass in the center of the bottom of the container.

Spin Welding
A process of fusing two objects together by forcing them together while one of the pair is spinning, until frictional heat melts the interface. Spinning is then stopped and pressure held until they are "frozen" together.

Split Finish
A finish defect. A finish which has a crack, or split, across the top surface, extending from the top of the finish downward.

Spray Frosting
The technique of spray coating a glass container to create a frosted, matte translucent appearance.

Sprayers
Trigger, finger-tip, pump, continuous spray and metering sprayers, hose-end sprayers for lawn and garden, and compressed air sprayers. Different types of decoration are available, including silk-screen and hot stamp decoration.

SS
In plastic bottle manufacturing, silkscreen decoration. Also S/S.

ST-25P
A 3M Cap-Seal product. PVDC coated paper closure liner material that offers good resistance to chemicals, excellent resistance to brine solutions and vegetable oils, and offers very low moisture vapor and gas transmission rates. ST-25P imparts no taste or odor to the sealed product. The waxed version provides increased protection for products such as salad dressing and mayonnaise. ST-25P is a natural kraft tan color. Typical packaging applications include closure liners for citrus fruit extracts, pickles, vegetable oils, mayonnaise, salad dressings and powdered milk, as well as for anti-perspirants, alcoholic beverages, volatile disinfectants, etc.

Stabilizer
An ingredient used in the formulation of some plastics, especially elastomers, to assist in maintaining the physical and chemical properties of the compounded materials at their initial values throughout the processing and service life of the materials.

Stacker Cap
A closure designed specifically to nest with the bottom plate of a container to facilitate the stacking of filled containers on top of each other.

Stakeholders
As defined in the Global Reporting Initiative Guidelines, stakeholders are individuals or organizations with a legitimate interest in a given situation, action or enterprise. For performance measurement purposes, stakeholders are broadly defined as those groups or individuals; 1) who can be reasonably expected to be affected by an organization's activities, products and/or services; or 2) whose actions can reasonably be expected to affect the ability of the organization to effectively implement its strategies and achieve its objectives.

STC
Single trip container.

Stelvin(R)
The Stelvin(R) neck finish can be found on some glass wine bottles. It is a screw thread finish designed to accommodate the Stelvin(R) closure, an aluminium cap with a tamper evident breakaway band. Offers product preservation, a modern look and practicality. Offered by Alcan Packaging (Pechiney).

Stencils
Stencil kits and stenciling systems for a wide range of applications, including safety and maintenance.

Sterilization
Gamma irradiation, ethylene oxide, and electron beam sterilization. Installation of sterilization systems available for companies requiring in-house processing. Sterilizing cleaners and sterilized tests also available.

Stippling
A decoration consisting of a system of closely spaced small raised dots on the outer surface of a container or closure.

Stones
A general defect. Small inclusions of refractory or unmelted batch materials.

Stopper
A solid, cork-shaped, ground-to-fit plug used to seal some bottles.

Stoppers, Rubber
Laboratory quality, micro, and corrosion resistant stoppers.

Storage Life
The period of time during which a product can be stored under specified temperature conditions and remain suitable for use. Sometimes called shelf life or working life.

Stress Cracking
The susceptibility of a thermoplastic article to cracking or crazing under the influence of certain chemicals and stress. Frequently accelerated by the environment to which the plastic is exposed. The stresses which cause cracking may be present internally or externally or may be combinations of both.

Stressed Water Sources
The term "stressed source" or "stressed Watershed" refers to sources of water where the draw down rate is greater than the recharge rate. On a regional basis, stressed sources of water cannot provide enough water for all uses - Agricultural, industrial and domestic - due to depletion of water quantity and/or quality. The UN Commission on Sustainable Development suggests that water sources are stressed when freshwater resources fall below 1000-1500 cubic meters per capita per year.

Striation
In plastic bottle manufacturing, a longitudinal line in the parison or bottle due to a disturbance in the melt path.

Strip Mold
Mold action in the manufacture of closures: After the injection cycle is completed, the cavity is removed and the stripper sleeve moves forward forcing the closure to flare and strip over the core.

Style
In RapidFind, Style is one of the search criteria. In the Glass and Plastic product types, Style can refer to standard industry names, such as Cylinder, Boston Round, F-Style, Modern Round, Wide Mouth (W/M) Jar, etc. If a name is not standard industry-wide, Style refers to the sides of the bottle, i.e., straight sided, tapered, etc. In the Closure product type, Style designates standard industry names. If a closure has threads, the Style is Continuous Thread. Other Styles include Dispensing, Child Resistant Closure (CRC), etc.

Styrene Acrylonitrile
Similar to general purpose polystyrene except for improved impact resistance and barrier properties; increased rigidity and UV stability; natural straw color; transparent. Also see SAN.

Sunken Shoulder
A shoulder defect. A shoulder which is not fully blown.

SureSeal 200
Foamed low density polyethylene core with top and bottom layers of .002" thick low density polyethylene.

SureSeal 300
Solid EVA. The last two digits in the 300 series number indicate the percentage of vinyl acetate in the EVA.

SureSeal 400
Solid blend of low density polyehtylene and polyisobutylene. The last two digits in the 400 series number indicate the percentage of polyisobutylene in the blend.

SureSeal 500
Foamed low density polyethylene core with top and bottom layers of .002" thick high density polyethylene.

SureSeal 600
Foamed low density polyethylene core with top and bottom layers of .002" thick polypropylene.

SureSeal 700
Core is a proprietary blend of foamed polyolefins. Top and bottom layers are .002" thick low density polyethylene.

Surface Treating
Any method of treating the surface of a plastic item to accept inks, paints, adhesives and chemical, flame and electronic treating.

Sustainability (Corporate)*
Sustainability in the corporate sector encompasses strategies and practices that aim to meet the needs of stakeholders today while seeking to protect, support and enhance the human and natural resources that will be needed in the future.
*Numerous definitions of sustainability exist and increasingly organizations are customizing definitions of sustainability to incorporate the broadly accepted principles of the concept (i.e., a blending of economic, environmental and social concerns) with their own specific visions, goals and objectives. The definition provided here is intended to be generic and illustrative of the basic principle.

Sustainable
Process or state that can be maintained at a certain level indefinitely, to provide the best outcomes for the human and natural environments both now and into the indefinite future.

Sustainable Packaging System
A target vision for companies to strive for packaging that can be transformed into a cradle to cradle flow of packaging materials in a system that is economically robust and provides benefit throughout its life cycle. Sustainable packaging that is:

Beneficial, safe and healthy for individuals and communities throughout its life cycle;
Meets market criteria for performance and cost;
Sourced, manufactured, transported and recycled using renewable energy;
Maximizes use of renewable or recycled source materials;
Manufactured using clean production technologies and best practices;
Made from materials healthy in all probably end-of-life scenarios;
Physically designed to optimize materials and energy;
Effectively recovered and utilized in biological or industrial cradle to cradle cycles.

SW-25P
A 3M Cap-Seal product. PVDC coated paper closure liner material with good resistance to chemicals, excellent resistance to brine solutions and vegetable oils, and very low moisture vapor and gas transmission rates. SW-25P imparts no taste or odor to the sealed product. The waxed version of this paper provides increased protection for products such as mayonnaise and salad dressings. SW-25P is white in color. Some typical packaging applications include closure liners for citrus fruit extracts, pickles, vegetable oils, mayonnaise, salad dressings and powdered milk, as well as for anti-perspirants, alcoholic beverages, volatile disinfectants, etc.

Swabs, Medical
Cotton and foam swabs.

Syringes
Varieties include a dual syringe with snap-off nozzle tip, and specialty syringes with various tips for a wide variety of applications, including infant care, feeding small animals or birds, and applying glues, dyes, lotions, resins and inks.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
*kickflips through wall, lands on neck*
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
What on Earth is all that Samprimary?
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I was wondering if I should whistle it....
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
no, no, something better to whistle would be this:
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hello to Hatrack website, I am to take great interest in message you have, to which respond is Get Childhood Stationary Memories for best home Stationary only $5.99 generic
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
get Best unencrypted US military wireless in Jamaica
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
What on Earth is all that Samprimary?

today's adventures in the tricorbraun encyclopedia of packaging terminology wthb34tuh435puhsw;pfh
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I also tried to beat battletoads recently. Didn't end well.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
yeah, the ending of battle toads is a bit unsatisfying, but that is how i feel when most games get beat
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
more than that it's just a ridiculously over the top example of when games didn't really have adequate playtesting

i mean you'd think that they would be like 'ok so all the actual kids who come in to play our game can't get past the racetrack and so they don't ever see 80% of our game this is a problem right?'
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
the bike race was always a problem, and i always dropped a bunch of lives in that pit where they lower you down on ropes
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
Also Hamburgers are totally sandwiches, they are the sandwiches of liberty!
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
because they're german right
 
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
the bike race was always a problem, and i always dropped a bunch of lives in that pit where they lower you down on ropes

Playing that game on "co-op", it was pretty much impossible not to turn that level into a back and forth game to see who could "wrecking ball" the other person to death the most.
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:
Originally posted by Marek:
the bike race was always a problem, and i always dropped a bunch of lives in that pit where they lower you down on ropes

Playing that game on "co-op", it was pretty much impossible not to turn that level into a back and forth game to see who could "wrecking ball" the other person to death the most.
Yeah, the answer to who, was always my brother, hence it costs me many lives. I miss that game
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"co op"
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
you fools
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
so re: title is it just me or is half the country straight demented on the subject of Berghdal's release

I am getting a MAJOR vibe of "If Obama does it, it is therefore wrong" from it
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Yep. Half the country is demented. They didn't seem to be demented until the President did it and then they became demented.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Eh. WHile the strength of the ire is no doubt fueled by that for many people, there are legit questions about whether or not it should have been done at all-prisoner exchanges being tricky and all that-and if so, whether it should have been done for this particular soldier (I am not well informed about him, though, and unless he had actually deserted and this can be proven, then it being done for him specifically wouldn't be a thing for me), and particularly whether or not the President has or ought to have the authority to do this on their own.

Not that reluctance to exercise executive authority has exactly been a hallmark of either of Obama's terms, but even so.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Yep. Half the country is demented. They didn't seem to be demented until the President did it and then they became demented.

i am really just getting the sense that what obama did re: berghdal is something they had been asking obama to do before and stuff they had been fine with when republican presidents did it, but suddenly it's traitorous impeachable OUTRAGE, because obama should have left an american to have his desertion trial handled by the taliban or whatever (???). i mean it seems so demonstrably clear that i'm just lost as to whether i should take the critics of this action seriously or just flip them off
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
You mean like how Democrats were outraged at executive overreach and militarism in the Bush Administration, but there is hardly a peep when it comes to widespread drone strikes and assassinations?

Eh. To me, foreign policy and campaign finance really are two of the areas of equivalence between the two parties.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Not sure where you are listening if you are hearing hardly a peep when it comes to drones. Most of the lefty columnists that I read are pretty furious about it and have been for some time.
 
Posted by 777 (Member # 9506) on :
 
Well, see, America is clearly the Supreme Good in this world. The rest of the world = bad, America = good; everyone agrees with that, especially since we beat the Bad Guys (i.e. everyone else) in World War II. We'll show the Bad Guys again who's boss as soon as Obama leaves office, because Obama is a bad guy from Kenya. He got elected because liberals.

The problem with Bergdahl is that he was originally a good guy but then he became a Bad Guy because he changed his opinion of America. Especially while serving in the military.

This is as Bad as it gets.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Not sure where you are listening if you are hearing hardly a peep when it comes to drones. Most of the lefty columnists that I read are pretty furious about it and have been for some time.

So you would categorize one of the features of the Democratic party being widespread outrage over the use of drones for 'targeted killings', then?

Of course not. I didn't say no one on the left was saying anything about it.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Certainly, the *progressive* wing of the Democratic Party is outraged. (Read Charlie Pearce for an example. Actually, just read Charlie Pearce.) The Democrats are hardly as far left as I would like them to be. But then the party wasn't nearly as outraged at President Bush's militarism as I would have liked either.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
You mean like how Democrats were outraged at executive overreach and militarism in the Bush Administration, but there is hardly a peep when it comes to widespread drone strikes and assassinations?

Lefties are rivetingly mad at obama's drone assassinations, and it's everywhere
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
I didn't say 'there are no democrats who are hopping mad' over this. I was referring to the party as a whole. They just aren't, as a whole. It's not a central feature of the party right now.

I'm not using this as an example of outrageous hypocrisy, either. It's pretty standard stuff politically-the party on the outside is often more strident and ideological than the one maintaining power.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Alls I know is a month ago I might have joked, "Obama could bring a prisoner of war home, and the GOP would scream about it."

Then it happened.

Remember back in 2008 how the GOP chided the president for his apology tour and loudly yelled, "The President of the USA doesn't apologize!"

These days the GOP sure find lots of things they want apologies for.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i am reminded of this onion article from 2011

quote:
WASHINGTON—GOP officials claimed credit Thursday for the Libyan people’s liberation from Col. Muammar Qaddafi’s despotic 42-year rule, saying that without the Nixon administration permitting Qaddafi to take control of Libya in the first place, there never would have been a tyrannical regime to topple. “In 1969, Qaddafi staged a coup, abolished the monarchy, kicked out American forces, and demanded U.S. oil companies share more revenue or else face expulsion—had Nixon and his Republican appointees done anything at all to stop Qaddafi during this time, Libya wouldn’t be celebrating his downfall today, in 2011,” explained Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC), calling the Libyan uprising a clear feather in the GOP’s cap. “So once again, the Libyan people have only the Republican Party to thank, because without our brilliant foresight, there would have been no Qaddafi dictatorship, and without a Qaddafi dictatorship, there would never have been a reason for the uprising. Understand? Again, this is our accomplishment, and ours alone.” Before thanking reporters for their time, Graham quickly added that Barack Obama had failed on every level and will always fail on every level.

 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
You mean like how Democrats were outraged at executive overreach and militarism in the Bush Administration, but there is hardly a peep when it comes to widespread drone strikes and assassinations?

Lefties are rivetingly mad at obama's drone assassinations, and it's everywhere
Forgot to add: "It's not much in the Senate."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
?

Dianne Feinstein, Dick Durbin, I've heard at least seven interviews with senators, where they're adamantly critical of the drone strikes.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Oh, well. Critical in interviews, a sure sign of really fundamental general strident opposition.

Or...is this Congress (the Democrats, anyway) made of sterner stuff than most politicians? Really willing to take it to a President of their party? Perhaps I missed it
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
It's in general really difficult to know what congress is doing because these days congress is excruciating and useless. the dominant tones are the mewling milquetoast of the majority and the strident obstructionism of the minority, with a dash of incredulously stupid extremism by the populist right wingers that gets a lot of reactionary traction in internet newsmedia (like, honestly, most of what you end up hearing about is "michelle bachman says that stem cell research will literally summon satan" or something)

but insofar as when you actually get that rare chance to have an open interview for the intellectual non-newsbitey crowd, even the senate majority leader and whip have serious reservations with obama's executive use of the drones.

in general they are all really upset with how the brokenness of congress is leading to an abrogation of legislative power and naturally causing power to consolidate in the executive, but they rarely talk straight about it because it's them just basically admitting that they're useless and it's causing power to bleed over to the presidency if just to keep the country functioning and setting a terrible and long lasting precedent
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
When you categories congress in part as 'mewling milquetoast of the majority' you rather illustrate my point for me. Or my that did you mean only the House, and not the Senate at all?

Look, there's not much getting around this: Democrats were more willing to be harsher and more ideological on use of force questions when a Republican was calling the shots-literally. This is ordinary. It's expected. It would be extraordinary if they *weren't* more lenient and politically pragmatic.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
I know that Sen. Franken has been fairly vocal about his concerns as well.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
"There are no Democratics in Congress openly and regularly critical of Obama's use of military force."
-nobody
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
When you categories congress in part as 'mewling milquetoast of the majority' you rather illustrate my point for me.

not really. they're still complaining about it, just uselessly. much like they complain about republican obstructionism.

they still object, frequently, in their regular useless capacity, and that does not jibe with 'hardly a peep'

quote:
Look, there's not much getting around this: Democrats were more willing to be harsher and more ideological on use of force questions when a Republican was calling the shots-literally. This is ordinary. It's expected.
Yes?
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
*shrug* I suppose I don't count ordinary ineffectual would-be governing as...well, anything really except showpiece work. So let me amend my statement then, to avoid argument: hardly an effective peep. It's not something they care about sufficiently to try and muster up their mediocre best. Talk is cheap.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
well to be fair, they definitely care sufficiently about the fact that republicans have rendered congress useless because they are operating on a strategy that they would rather make the government dysfunctional than let those filthy liberals dare to make government functional and then take the credit for it. but it doesn't matter because ... useless!

if and when they care about the drone strikes, it's equally relevant (its not) and necessarily low priority due to a combination of hypocrisy (it's ok to let it happen because it's OUR guy who's doing it) and us vs. them (if we spend too much time criticizing our own side it only empowers the side that is committed to criticizing us no matter what we do)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/10/teachers-tenure-judge-education/10291991/

oh that's not huge or anything
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Tenure after 18 months seems kinda nuts if I'm honest.
 
Posted by capaxinfiniti (Member # 12181) on :
 
Tenure at all is nuts.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
sure thing buddy


~MEANWHILE~

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/house-majority-leader-cantor-defeated-primary

quote:
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — In an upset for the ages, Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia, the second-most powerful man in the House, was dethroned Tuesday by a little-known, tea party-backed Republican primary challenger carried to victory on a wave of public anger over calls for looser immigration laws.

"This is a miracle from God that just happened," exulted David Brat, an economics professor, as his victory became clear in the congressional district around Virginia's capital city.

hahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahaahaha

oh my god
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
sure thing buddy


~MEANWHILE~

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/house-majority-leader-cantor-defeated-primary

quote:
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — In an upset for the ages, Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia, the second-most powerful man in the House, was dethroned Tuesday by a little-known, tea party-backed Republican primary challenger carried to victory on a wave of public anger over calls for looser immigration laws.

"This is a miracle from God that just happened," exulted David Brat, an economics professor, as his victory became clear in the congressional district around Virginia's capital city.

hahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahaahaha

oh my god

Since I don't live in Richmond anymore, I know nothing about this new guy but since he's a Tea Party guy, this could be going from bad to worse.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
What Brat doesn't realize is that God is using him as a tool to unseat Cantor, and swing that seat to the Democrats. That's it. [Big Grin]

In all seriousness that is so surprising. Cantor was leading by double digit percentage points weeks leading up to this.

Ultimately, I confess I don't understand how the Tea Party has been so successful.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
Since I don't live in Richmond anymore, I know nothing about this new guy but since he's a Tea Party guy, this could be going from bad to worse.

oh he's terribly ultraright, sure, but this is just flat-out hilarious. not a bad thing at all.

cantor spent $5m, brat spent something like 170k. cantor about spent more on steaks alone than this guy's entire campaign.

but

get this

cantor recently made the dire mistake of saying he MIGHT work A LITTLE BIT with OBAMA ever on IMMIGRATION REFORM which sent the right wing radio hosts into an epic furor over him and scathing condemnation throughout the tea party ranks and so they gathered en masse at the primary and voted for this guy instead.

and VA has a sore loser law so cantor can only participate as a write-in. and write-ins are completely screwed on electronic voting machines, so
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
"I will make Washington DC as irrelevant to your everyday life as possible."
-Dave Brat

Charming. It's so nice of him to make DC relevant to his everyday life so we all don't have to. I can't think of another profession where people join it because they hate it so much.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
he has gotten elected to prove that government doesn't work. i am sure he will do his best!
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
His best is what I'm worried about. Ted Cruz and Mike Lee have both proven adept at wrecking our government. I'd be much happier if Brat became just another career politician of no consequence.

It just boggles my mind that he won in part by lambasting Cantor for working with Obama on immigration. The message is loud and clear to Republicans, "Don't work with Democrats." But how on Earth do the Tea Partiers think they are going to govern without working with other constituencies?

Moreover, how on Earth can the Republicans start getting the Latino vote, when Cantor was just publicly booted from the party for favoring immigration reform?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
The Tea Party is uninterested in practical necessity because it does not understand nor care for these things. It's hardline. It's a party primarily of and for old white men, typically who are extremely disdainful of immigrants or immigration reform. All you have to do is browse five minutes or so of their typical chain email or facebook political chain post history of a self-described Tea Party member, or listen to their talk radio and read their online news, to figure out that these people will never be the friends of brown people. They will never support immigration reform, and they are now defining themselves by catastrophically eating any part of the GOP as hard as they can that would do anything to move themselves away from a demographic collapse due to their continued alienation of colored people, latinos especially.

Cantor's loss is a clear message that the Tea Party is going to eat any part of itself that ever tries to touch immigration reform with a thousand foot pole. What passes for the 'moderate' wing of the GOP has become extremely rightfully worried and had begun to even tentatively explore the HERESY of cooperation with democrats. Well, now they're too busy being afraid of their own. Immigration reform is dead in the GOP, today.

nom nom nom eat your own
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:

But how on Earth do the Tea Partiers think they are going to govern without working with other constituencies?

The don't expect to govern. Their premise is that government is bad. They will take what power and wealth they can for themselves and let Rome burn.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
a better analogy is that they expect to Galt the government back into shape, because free markets are an excellent director of moral forces in society, also hands off my guns or whatever

also expect plenty of anti-immigrant dogwhistling plus a significant quantity of selectively utilizing the concept of states' rights for whatever specific uses of strong governmental power they are ok with because reasons (like mandatory vaginal ultrasounds for people seeking abortion, banning stem cell research, etc)

i love these guys. i love these guys so hard.
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
"There are no Democratics in Congress openly and regularly critical of Obama's use of military force."
-nobody during an election campaign

Fixed that for you.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
David Brat, the economics professor who defeated House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) Tuesday in a surprise upset, has advocated for a system that "synthesize[s] Christianity and capitalism" and warned that if society doesn't shape up, a Hitler-like figure could rise up.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Oh sure post this stuff in multiple threads. Keep us all guessing Sam.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i don't even know how that happened

anyway, just in case i get to hear the vaunted "ur mean when u call the tea party names like 'homophobic'" i guess i should stash a link here

http://www.edgeboston.com/news/national/News/160520/oklahoma_tea_party_candidate_endorses_stoning_gays
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I love that his comment right after stating that was in essence, "I know it doesn't sound very libertarian."

Yeah, because *that's* what you should be worried about not being.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
I'm curious, BB, what exactly do you take issue with in his statements? He sounds like the sort of person you've strenuously defended before.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
BlackBlade has defended people with ideas such as 'it is right to bludgeon homosexuals to death in obedience to God'? If so, I surely missed it.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
I'm curious, BB, what exactly do you take issue with in his statements? He sounds like the sort of person you've strenuously defended before.

wat
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
WASHINGTON—Looking back on his 13-year tenure in the House of Representatives with reverence, resigning House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) reflected on the long list of accomplishments he had thwarted during his time in office, sources confirmed Thursday. “From obstructing a jobs bill to put Americans back to work in 2011, to derailing gun control measures any time they reached my desk, I feel blessed to have had such an incredible run of preventing productive policies, and even a few pieces of landmark legislation, from ever passing,” said Cantor, explaining that as a young man, he “never would have dreamed” that some day he would be in a position to hinder the entire American lawmaking process and completely neuter dozens of bills. “Of course, I’m disappointed because I thought I had many more years of impeding accomplishments ahead of me, and I’ll be the first to admit that I never quite managed to stall environmental policies as much as I would have liked. But at the end of the day, I’m very proud of how I helped Congress accomplish so little during my time in office.” Cantor added that he took solace that his legacy of hampering federal policy was secure, and trusted that “many, many more” in his party would be inspired to follow in his footsteps.
/nottheonion /okit'stheonion
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
BlackBlade has defended people with ideas such as 'it is right to bludgeon homosexuals to death in obedience to God'? If so, I surely missed it.

Yeah, of course he has.

At least from my reading, this guy is just making explicit where his religious objection/prejudice to gay people is coming from. He clearly stated that he is not looking to make it legal to kill gay people. What he is saying is that being gay is so bad that God laid down a clear law in Leviticus that they should be stoned to death. Isn't that exactly what people who rely on those verses to justify their anti-gay agenda do? They just don't make it explicit.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
Yeah, of course he has.
Um, no.
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
BlackBlade has defended people with ideas such as 'it is right to bludgeon homosexuals to death in obedience to God'? If so, I surely missed it.

Yeah, of course he has.

At least from my reading, this guy is just making explicit where his religious objection/prejudice to gay people is coming from. He clearly stated that he is not looking to make it legal to kill gay people. What he is saying is that being gay is so bad that God laid down a clear law in Leviticus that they should be stoned to death. Isn't that exactly what people who rely on those verses to justify their anti-gay agenda do? They just don't make it explicit.

First, the guy sent a remarkably muddled, mixed message about the idea of stoning homosexuals. On the one hand it would be 'totally right' to do so, and furthermore dire consequences will ensue for us as a nation if we don't hurry up and start murdering (excuse me, executing) homosexuals. Him saying he has no plans to do so in Oklahoma...well, of course he doesn't. Even a wingnut like this guy would be clever enough to know that right or not, godly or not, it's simply not going to happen.

Anyway, now you're going from a very specific statement-BlackBlade has defended (strenuously, no less) exactly this reasoning-to a very broad statement. 'People who...'

Look, don't get me wrong. Basing our morality on a cobbled together book of a bunch of bronze age men-for that's how I evaluate it anyway-is nonsense. But there is room for religious people to secularize somewhat, as I would call it. Many of them would not, would instead credit it with their religion's teachings as better understood in the modern day. Whatever the reasoning for it, just because BlackBlade may at one point (I don't remember) have defended a religious disapproval of homosexuality in and of itself is not at all the same thing as saying he has stuck up for people proposing stoning homosexuals to death.

You may as well next go on and criticize Fred Rogers for what Fred Phelps has said and done.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Yeah, that's a remarkably unfair extrapolation from BlackBlade's arguments against punishing/shunning people who oppose same sex marriage.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
I don't think that BB has so much defended such statements as called for civility towards those that make such statements. I don't agree that such statements should be met with politeness but I would not go so far as to say that BB has defended them.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
BlackBlade has defended people with ideas such as 'it is right to bludgeon homosexuals to death in obedience to God'? If so, I surely missed it.

Yeah, of course he has.

At least from my reading, this guy is just making explicit where his religious objection/prejudice to gay people is coming from. He clearly stated that he is not looking to make it legal to kill gay people. What he is saying is that being gay is so bad that God laid down a clear law in Leviticus that they should be stoned to death. Isn't that exactly what people who rely on those verses to justify their anti-gay agenda do? They just don't make it explicit.

First, the guy sent a remarkably muddled, mixed message about the idea of stoning homosexuals. On the one hand it would be 'totally right' to do so, and furthermore dire consequences will ensue for us as a nation if we don't hurry up and start murdering (excuse me, executing) homosexuals. Him saying he has no plans to do so in Oklahoma...well, of course he doesn't. Even a wingnut like this guy would be clever enough to know that right or not, godly or not, it's simply not going to happen.

Anyway, now you're going from a very specific statement-BlackBlade has defended (strenuously, no less) exactly this reasoning-to a very broad statement. 'People who...'

Look, don't get me wrong. Basing our morality on a cobbled together book of a bunch of bronze age men-for that's how I evaluate it anyway-is nonsense. But there is room for religious people to secularize somewhat, as I would call it. Many of them would not, would instead credit it with their religion's teachings as better understood in the modern day. Whatever the reasoning for it, just because BlackBlade may at one point (I don't remember) have defended a religious disapproval of homosexuality in and of itself is not at all the same thing as saying he has stuck up for people proposing stoning homosexuals to death.

You may as well next go on and criticize Fred Rogers for what Fred Phelps has said and done.

I did miss the last bit about God may visit calamities on us, and that changes things a bit, but I don't see a difference between people who base their anti-gay agenda on believing that God has said it is right to kill them, but don't come right out and say that and someone explicitly who affirms that.

Are people saying that the people who rest a lot of their opposition to gay people on Leviticus don't actually believe that what God said was right and that the people who stoned homosexuals at God's explicit instructions were actually in the wrong?
 
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
quote:
I don't think that BB has so much defended such statements as called for civility towards those that make such statements. I don't agree that such statements should be met with politeness but I would not go so far as to say that BB has defended them.
Nor do I, but BlackBlade is notable for generally advocating civility and courtesy to everyone, almost universally. So to expand on your statement, it's unfair to single out past requests for that for people who want to stone homosexuals to death as somehow unique.

----------

quote:
I did miss the last bit about God may visit calamities on us, and that changes things a bit, but I don't see a difference between people who base their anti-gay agenda on believing that God has said it is right to kill them, but don't come right out and say that and someone explicitly who affirms that.

Are people saying that the people who rest a lot of their opposition to gay people on Leviticus don't actually believe that what God said was right and that the people who stoned homosexuals at God's explicit instructions were actually in the wrong?

Simple response to that. Your criticism falls flat if it is possible for someone to believe that there is a religious justification for disapproving of homosexuality, without also thinking there is a religious justification for executing them. Is this possible?

Well, I think it's a pretty fair example of some arbitrary a la carte religious morality, but people certainly do manage to believe exactly this.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
quote:
Simple response to that. Your criticism falls flat if it is possible for someone to believe that there is a religious justification for disapproving of homosexuality, without also thinking there is a religious justification for executing them. Is this possible?

Well, I think it's a pretty fair example of some arbitrary a la carte religious morality, but people certainly do manage to believe exactly this.

I'm not talking about a generic religious justification. I'm talking about specific passages where it explicitly says the God says it is right to stone people to death for being gay.

For someone who has a sincere religious belief that this is the Word of God, I don't see how that supports discriminating against gay people but not believing that it is right to stone them. To me, this guy was affirming his religious belief which is something that BB has come in strong defense of people doing previous (not just saying that you should be polite to them). I honestly don't see how this situation would be different.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
I am assuming that you don't mean that "defend" is the same as "agree".
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
What blackblade was in defense of before was, in part, the idea that someone is "tolerant" when they are expressing their bigotry "politely," as long as the bigot is "sincere" in their belief by a standard which includes that they sincerely believe it is the word of god and for the betterment of, you know, things... and it is "intolerant" for a marginalized person or group if they do not receive such bigotry "politely," either by not reciprocating the same veneer of polite interaction as the marginalizing bigot is fronting, or telling the bigoted person off and saying that they do not want any interaction with them because of their beliefs.

I've already torn that one down eight ways to sunday because it's an unsupportable, tone-policing warping of the notion of 'tolerance' and 'intolerance' — but I don't believe that translates directly into this being a person he will "strenuously defend," even if his idea is that he desires civility to these people when they are "polite" because that's apparently how you sway people away from their bigotry or something. He supports neither the man nor the agenda, he just has a confused vision of what counts as "tolerant" or "intolerant" behavior to the man with regards to his beliefs.
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
It'd be a funny old world if you could only defend people you agree with. No, I don't think he agrees with them. I do think he has gone to bat for them in many ways beyond saying that the people they are oppressing shouldn't be mean to them and that a primary justification for his defense was that they were expressing sincere religious views.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote:
Simple response to that. Your criticism falls flat if it is possible for someone to believe that there is a religious justification for disapproving of homosexuality, without also thinking there is a religious justification for executing them. Is this possible?

Well, I think it's a pretty fair example of some arbitrary a la carte religious morality, but people certainly do manage to believe exactly this.

I'm not talking about a generic religious justification. I'm talking about specific passages where it explicitly says the God says it is right to stone people to death for being gay.

For someone who has a sincere religious belief that this is the Word of God, I don't see how that supports discriminating against gay people but not believing that it is right to stone them. To me, this guy was affirming his religious belief which is something that BB has come in strong defense of people doing previous (not just saying that you should be polite to them). I honestly don't see how this situation would be different.

I'm wondering if you're aware that many people view the New Testament and Jesus's teachings to be a higher/better set of commandments that supplanted much of the older law in the Old Testament? (Not me, I strictly adhere to the code of Ur-Nammu.)
 
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
quote:
I'm wondering if you're aware that many people view the New Testament and Jesus's teachings to be a higher/better set of commandments that supplanted much of the older law in the Old Testament? (Not me, I strictly adhere to the code of Ur-Nammu.)
Of course I am. I'm not sure how that is relevant when we are talking about people who are specifically referencing the Old Testament verses though. Could you explain?
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Well, a couple of things.

1) I'm not aware of BB defending those who believe in those Old Testament verses in particular; I don't think he's on record that those verses are fine and dandy.

2) Your argument seems to be that if one uses Leviticus to justify ones opinion of homosexuality, one must also be OK with stoning people as prescribed there. My point is that no, the vast majority of people whose scripture includes those verses manifestly DO NOT believe in stoning people to death any more.

I guess what I didn't make clear is that it's pretty common for those people to think there's still a lot of valid guidance in the Old Testament, while also thinking that the codes of punishment (among other parts) are obsolete.

In other words, even if BB urges "tolerance" for people who justify animosity for gay people by pointing to Leviticus, it a) doesn't mean that he defends their views and even more so b) doesn't mean that he defends people who are abnormal and want to stone gay people.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
so in conclusion: ur-nammu was right
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
So you read 55 copies of Ender's Game. Were they all the exact same edition or different? Maybe 12 mass market paperbacks, 22 1st edition hard covers and 21 ebooks in four different file formats? Did you maybe throw in a pirated version to see if it had any errors?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
So I totally missed y'all talking about me on page 13/14. I feel like it was kinda nice to just have other people say the things I would have said.

Also, Samprimary, it's not tone policing. Or if it is, it's blind tone policing.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
in what sense would you call it 'blind' tone policing? is it because you are expecting the same surface politeness from both parties in an exchange between a marginalized person (say, a gay person who is fighting to have his rights recognized in his state) and a person who enacts/perpetuates the marginalization (a 'sincere' religious person who votes for and donates money to the attempt to keep gay marriage illegal)?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
It's blind tone policing because regardless of the position being stated, you expect the same standards of conduct.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
As an example leading into a critique of that idea, do you understand the typical criticisms of when people profess "colorblindness" on their own part and/or uphold it as the way to deal with racial issues in this country?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I'd rather hear you tell me what you think they are, rather than guess we have the same understanding.

I do understand that often those discussions themselves are tailored to give the privileged person an edge even when things equal on paper.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Basically, the same issue with proclaiming "I use only blind tone policing" comes part and parcel with saying that you "don't see race!" in terms of the problems it comes with.

Your blind tone policing is ... tone policing. And while I know that the whole community of people who are most prone to use concepts like Tone Policing (or intersectionality or whatever) frequently use tone policing as a get-out-of-critical-review-free card constantly because they're an insane maelstrom of perpetual psychodrama, the previous critiques I had of your position on 'politeness' are still right, and I wasn't the only person explaining why.

I will dive into that later but I feel I have to interrupt this for some hilarious news
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
So today I got contacted by both an individual and an anti-online bullying group for any information I had on former user Lisa because apparently she's now earned a reputation as an odious harasser and had even cyberbullied a 12 year old kid or something and got a community backlash for it, and I was asked if I knew her 'before she got involved in white supremacist sites' and/or if I could provide accounts of her bigoted behavior.

ookay

is there something I can sign up for to be not part of the Doxxing Force contact list or what
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
So you read 55 copies of Ender's Game. Were they all the exact same edition or different? Maybe 12 mass market paperbacks, 22 1st edition hard covers and 21 ebooks in four different file formats? Did you maybe throw in a pirated version to see if it had any errors?

Did you read them simultaneously (to save time)?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
yes. i would read a word in book 1 of 55, then repeat the reading of that word in each subsequent book, until finished. Then continue with the next word in all books.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
So today I got contacted by both an individual and an anti-online bullying group for any information I had on former user Lisa because apparently she's now earned a reputation as an odious harasser and had even cyberbullied a 12 year old kid or something and got a community backlash for it, and I was asked if I knew her 'before she got involved in white supremacist sites' and/or if I could provide accounts of her bigoted behavior.

I just can't believe that's what it's come to. How on Earth could she ever be involved in White Supremacy groups? That's antithetical to a huge part of her.
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
I wonder why they contacted you in particular about Lisa, Sam; that's really odd.

BB, I agree; it's so bizarre that I wonder if it's actually true. Maybe the person who contacted Sam had his usernames crossed or something?
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Unless she was harassing 12-year-old white supremacists, yeah, it doesn't make much sense.
 
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
...an anti-online bullying group...

You were contacted by a group of bullies who are against the internet?

ETA: omg, I'm post #666 in this thread.
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
So today I got contacted by both an individual and an anti-online bullying group for any information I had on former user Lisa because apparently she's now earned a reputation as an odious harasser and had even cyberbullied a 12 year old kid or something and got a community backlash for it, and I was asked if I knew her 'before she got involved in white supremacist sites' and/or if I could provide accounts of her bigoted behavior.

I just can't believe that's what it's come to. How on Earth could she ever be involved in White Supremacy groups? That's antithetical to a huge part of her.
Unless Samprimary is just messing with us. [Smile]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
this is not the first time i've had someone tail me from Hatrack apparently (i had my fb page stalked and harrassed and got threatened by a pissy anonymous hatrack user) so hooray
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Oh, hey, sorry about that, Samp. I was in, what I like to call, my "heavily drinking" phase.

[Smile]
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Basically, the same issue with proclaiming "I use only blind tone policing" comes part and parcel with saying that you "don't see race!" in terms of the problems it comes with.

Your blind tone policing is ... tone policing. And while I know that the whole community of people who are most prone to use concepts like Tone Policing (or intersectionality or whatever) frequently use tone policing as a get-out-of-critical-review-free card constantly because they're an insane maelstrom of perpetual psychodrama, the previous critiques I had of your position on 'politeness' are still right, and I wasn't the only person explaining why.

I will dive into that later but I feel I have to interrupt this for some hilarious news

I don't know that I think victimized minorities need tone policing anymore than the victimizing majorities do though Sam.

I myself need it all the time in conversations ranging from, "Why don't you approve of me dad?" to "The Tea Party is full of idiots."

People are pretty bad at discussing issues of deep import without also using words and tones of voice that block meaningful communication; preventing persuasion.

I'll admit that lately I've become somewhat enamored with John Roberts statement, "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." He said that in relation to Michigan voters being permitted to end affirmative action in university admissions.

And I say that as somebody who in the past would have 100% supported an activity where the white kids in a group shut up, and let the minority group kids speak for a full two hours. And still believe people who make admission decisions are unduly influenced by the race of the applicant, in a way that favors whites over other ethnic groups. I feel like I'm starting to see pitfalls in "Check your privilege." Are we really going to move into a post-racial society by making atonement for past behaviors? By paying some chunk of money? Or by giving minority's a handicap in the school/business world?

I just haven't seen that working. Then again, I haven't seen anything working so what do I know? I just know what worked for me (and I was never maliciously racist in the sense I hated somebody because of race) was just learning to care about people, no matter who they are. You can't hate somebody's race when you genuinely care about them. I laughed at black racist jokes until I learned about Malcolm X.

It just a movie, but this part in American History X I think is a real concept. The transition came because the black man kept being kind to him, and he started to care about him.

People can be taught to hate somebody the moment they observe that they are a certain race. But if you care about or love somebody who happens to be of a certain race, you've destroyed the rationale for hating based on race because you now have a contradiction that stares you in the face. If you can love somebody who is black, then being black isn't a blanket indictment anymore.

I think it's much harder to teach somebody, "Oh you shouldn't conclude X about a race, that's wrong to do." You're dealing with all the logical fallacies, and pride that refuses to let that person change their mind. The poor being lazy, immigrants being parasites, gays being evil, women being less able, rich being apathetic, whites being entitled, all that melts away when you eventually learn to love everybody.

Being around KarlEd and Phoenix for one hour at dinner, was the equivalent of reading 50 well written essays on homophobia.

But I feel like it works the other way too. When you are an oppressed minority, you're angry. Angry at the people who keep hurting you. You lump them all in together. They are an institution that needs to be dealt with the same way. You don't see them as individuals anymore, they are all zombies who are diseased with bigotry, and the cure is for them to be mute, blind, and deaf, while you lead them by a rough hand out of purgatory. Their protests mean nothing because they are blinded with that disease, they don't know any better. In fact, in many instances there is no cure, so it's best to just get them out of the way, and forget about them. The sooner the better, they deserve it.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
I just know what worked for me (and I was never maliciously racist in the sense I hated somebody because of race) was just learning to care about people, no matter who they are.
Let me point out that people who believe in the phenomenon of privilege would observe that of course this works for you, because you're (loosely) in a position of privilege. Because all you need to do is think, "oh, <X> isn't all that bad, so I shouldn't think less of them or treat them badly."

Whereas someone who is <X> cannot, by simply choosing to not think poorly of people of privilege, magically be treated well by those people. The issue, after all, is that some groups are still marginalized and stigmatized, and "let's be race-blind" is a solution for the groups that do the marginalizing and stigmatizing. But a minority who is actually, honest-to-God "race-blind" is going to go around wondering "why on Earth do people keep treating me like crap?"

quote:
Their protests mean nothing because they are blinded with that disease, they don't know any better. In fact, in many instances there is no cure, so it's best to just get them out of the way, and forget about them. The sooner the better, they deserve it.
I would argue that this is probably the case. White people -- especially white Christian men -- are going to have to learn what it's like to not run the world. They won't like it. They will whine. They will kick and scream and lash out. And it may well be best to get them out of the way and forget about them until they can behave like adults.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
And I get that sounds like a posh version of, "I have black friends, so I can't be racist against blacks."

But I don't think it's possible to eradicate racism *without* being the sort of person who would voluntarily befriend a black person. I think racism is a symptom of not caring about others and being told to ostracize others. I don't think it's a problem unto itself.

If people are taught to welcome people into their definition of "My community", I think that does far more than quotas, check your privilege, shaming, et al.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
How on Earth could she ever be involved in White Supremacy groups? That's antithetical to a huge part of her.

Like, I wouldn't have considered it totally antithetical since she already has a few instances in this forum where she's let her racism slip through. But that was all pretty much anti-arab racism, so anti-black would be just an unexpected new and unseen angle. I would not have understood the racist against blacks thing specifically from any experience here even when she was at the height of her hatepostin'.

But then I asked about it, and, welp, was provided some links, and definitely I could see and confirm for myself, that 1. she did indeed harass a child pretty brazenly, it was a thing that happened and it was pretty bad, and 2. she openly links to and broadcasts some white supremacist sites. Like, she was unarguably broadcasting and supporting anti-black hate sites. No question. Her facebook is filled with public posts where she's saying racist things and broadcasting messages and links from white supremacist sites. End of story.

I am not gonna buy that that's "involvement" in most realistic senses of the word but still, good lord, when she's unfiltered, she's off-the-rails comically racist, so w/e
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
BB, basically, it all comes down to where we ended up stuck the last time. The hypothetical about the KKK member.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Let me point out that people who believe in the phenomenon of privilege would observe that of course this works for you, because you're (loosely) in a position of privilege. Because all you need to do is think, "oh, <X> isn't all that bad, so I shouldn't think less of them or treat them badly."

Whereas someone who is <X> cannot, by simply choosing to not think poorly of people of privilege, magically be treated well by those people. The issue, after all, is that some groups are still marginalized and stigmatized, and "let's be race-blind" is a solution for the groups that do the marginalizing and stigmatizing. But a minority who is actually, honest-to-God "race-blind" is going to go around wondering "why on Earth do people keep treating me like crap?"


Well said. I used to think like BB on this subject and it certainly sounds like the ideal to aspire to but I have come around to your view.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
As for Lisa, I am not surprised at all.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Let me point out that people who believe in the phenomenon of privilege would observe that of course this works for you, because you're (loosely) in a position of privilege. Because all you need to do is think, "oh, <X> isn't all that bad, so I shouldn't think less of them or treat them badly."
No, it's more like, "This person is admirable, and previously I thought that was impossible for people with <X> characteristic. I can no longer see people who are <X> the same negative way now. This also naturally leads one to consider that other people still share that old belief and have institutionalized it.

quote:
Whereas someone who is <X> cannot, by simply choosing to not think poorly of people of privilege, magically be treated well by those people.
Yeah, that's not what I'm arguing at all. But if the person does act poorly towards people of privilege, they are guaranteeing nothing will change.

quote:
I would argue that this is probably the case. White people -- especially white Christian men -- are going to have to learn what it's like to not run the world. They won't like it. They will whine. They will kick and scream and lash out. And it may well be best to get them out of the way and forget about them until they can behave like adults.
Yeah, I don't really want to live in a society where one race owes the others a debt all the time. And we all act like racism towards whites is justified because the desired outcome is equality.

I'm not going to work towards that world. I'm going to work towards a world where people try to change each other for the better. And do so with nothing but kind motives.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
I'm going to work towards a world where people try to change each other for the better.
That sounds admirable, but it's the kind of thinking that gave us Liberia.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I'm going to work towards a world where people try to change each other for the better.
That sounds admirable, but it's the kind of thinking that gave us Liberia.
Yeah Liberia is to what I'm talking about as disowning your child but buying a plane ticket for them is to love.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
How on Earth could she ever be involved in White Supremacy groups? That's antithetical to a huge part of her.

Like, I wouldn't have considered it totally antithetical since she already has a few instances in this forum where she's let her racism slip through. But that was all pretty much anti-arab racism, so anti-black would be just an unexpected new and unseen angle. I would not have understood the racist against blacks thing specifically from any experience here even when she was at the height of her hatepostin'.

But then I asked about it, and, welp, was provided some links, and definitely I could see and confirm for myself, that 1. she did indeed harass a child pretty brazenly, it was a thing that happened and it was pretty bad, and 2. she openly links to and broadcasts some white supremacist sites. Like, she was unarguably broadcasting and supporting anti-black hate sites. No question. Her facebook is filled with public posts where she's saying racist things and broadcasting messages and links from white supremacist sites. End of story.

I am not gonna buy that that's "involvement" in most realistic senses of the word but still, good lord, when she's unfiltered, she's off-the-rails comically racist, so w/e

But white supremacists are also vehemently anti-Jew also pro-Nazi. I just can't see how you square that in Lisa's mind.

Not that I am denying what you are saying you saw Sam.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
I just can't see how you square that in Lisa's mind.
I don't know, the same way you square away some sort of bizarre pretend-compatibility between Objectivism and Orthodox Judaism, or Orthodox Judaism and other things? We are talking about a known pro in doublethought identity!

I mean, we're talking about a person who unabashedly champions ethnic cleansing to begin with, so hey no big surprise, and what probably happened is that it wasn't gonna take much to either inspire or reveal she had similarly odious opinions with regards to more domestic ethnic tensions ("urban youth" and other american race issues) and quotes and images and activism from anti-black hate sites were probably just put up on her facebook out of uncritical convenience, or who even knows.

I'm hearing from another hatracker that this is way not a new thing anyway and at the height of the trayvon martin controversy she was posting such ridiculously problematic anti-black crap as to inspire them to get screenshots for posterity. You can also just of your own accord (or masochism) take a quick jaunt back in time on her facebook and get some real choice publicly posted quotes about wanting to cleanse all the arabs, gleefully promoting syrians dying and burning so that the jews can go in and claim all the land, being super happy that they were gonna pop the temple mount like a zit once they kick out all the muslims, etc

yeah awesome i'm good on this lisa stuff now thx, got my fill, i'm out

http://imgur.com/mZuKoTl
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
BB, I appreciate your idealism. I agree that the world you describe would be lovely. In my religion we refer to it as the Kingdom of God and we strive for it. However, we are nowhere near there. We can't ask people to wait for justice until everybody loves their neighbor and the lion lies down with the lamb. We have to address the systemic injustice before and during encouraging universal peace and love. Pretending that the injustice doesn't exist won't make it go away. It is like a race where one runner has been training and has a head start and the other runner has been in shackles. You can't just take the shackles off and call it a fair race.
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Let me point out that people who believe in the phenomenon of privilege would observe that of course this works for you, because you're (loosely) in a position of privilege. Because all you need to do is think, "oh, <X> isn't all that bad, so I shouldn't think less of them or treat them badly."
No, it's more like, "This person is admirable, and previously I thought that was impossible for people with <X> characteristic. I can no longer see people who are <X> the same negative way now. This also naturally leads one to consider that other people still share that old belief and have institutionalized it.

I know this will sound inflammatory, but to me this idea smells of Jim Crow-enabling naivete.

Because your conclusion is not supported by the premise. People have an amazing capacity for cognitive dissonance. It is just as likely, based on [EDIT: historical evidence], for your hypothetical person to believe "this person X isn't all that bad, because they are _exceptional_, because of [insert rationalizations A,B,C, and/or D]. However, that doesn't mean I can trust that anyone else with characteristic X to be similarly exceptional, because, well, obviously X is _exceptional_.

I am sure in Jim Crow days there were plenty of white folks who knew local black folks, and treated them pretty well, maybe even bent the rules/looked the other way for "their black folk". But that didn't mean they believed that sort of leeway could be extended to all black people, nor would it stop them from falling back on their socially-ingrained stereotypes when the black people they know and could apparently sincerely say, "X isn't all that bad," or, "X is admirable," if said black people started clamoring for general civil rights. I could easily see them believing that such behavior would reinforce the stereotypes more strongly.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
BB, I appreciate your idealism. I agree that the world you describe would be lovely. In my religion we refer to it as the Kingdom of God and we strive for it. However, we are nowhere near there. We can't ask people to wait for justice until everybody loves their neighbor and the lion lies down with the lamb. We have to address the systemic injustice before and during encouraging universal peace and love. Pretending that the injustice doesn't exist won't make it go away. It is like a race where one runner has been training and has a head start and the other runner has been in shackles. You can't just take the shackles off and call it a fair race.

Of course not. But I'm not going to then break the shackles in half, and make the other runner wear one of the links around his ankle so that the sound and discomfort remind him of the institution he was a part of and give the previously disadvantaged runner a lesser advantage.

The devil is probably in the details. I understand what affirmative action is trying to accomplish. I just remain unconvinced it's really working. And it *does* disadvantage without discretion white males. You can certainly argue (and I know it's true) that at a macro level, white guys still have it better than any other demographic, and justify doing even more like things. But are we really going to get to racial equality by just being unequal in the other direction?

Barack Obama didn't need special handicaps while running for President to win right? Certainly his race cost him votes. I would suspect Hillary Clinton will win in 2016 without any restructuring of the rules for electing people.

I'm in favor of rules that level the playing field. I certainly support services that help lift people out of poverty. I would support paying for specially funded schools in black neighborhoods that improve their ability to help themselves. I support legislation that mandates pay being equal for equivalent jobs regardless of race or gender. I support allowing workers to sue the pants off businesses that mistreat them on account of their gender/race/marital status/etc. But for some reason in my mind when it comes time to get into a school or a job, it doesn't sit right with me that a person has a mandate for being accepted because of their race. Be it affirmative action or the good ol' boy's club.

The game is rigged, because people are bigots, I know we all believe that. I just think quotas, while well intentioned, and successful in that they get minorities into schools and jobs that help lift them out, that they are still the wrong tool for the job. But data could certainly change my mind. We've had several decades of quotas.

-------

Bok:
quote:
I am sure in Jim Crow days there were plenty of white folks who knew local black folks, and treated them pretty well, maybe even bent the rules/looked the other way for "their black folk".

But that didn't mean they believed that sort of leeway could be extended to all black people, nor would it stop them from falling back on their socially-ingrained stereotypes when the black people they know and could apparently sincerely say, "X isn't all that bad," or, "X is admirable," if said black people started clamoring for general civil rights. I could easily see them believing that such behavior would reinforce the stereotypes more strongly.

I suspect we see this effect in people who know better, but are unwilling to pay the cost of society alienating them were they to act on this new knowledge.

These people who are nice to "their black people" are still a step in the right direction, as screwed up as that sounds. Get enough of them, and they start to talk and realize they are safe to express previously radical feelings. I am absolutely certain my own writing on gay rights has given people permission and courage to act more truthfully. They've abandoned poor thoughts and behaviors. I've had people say as much to me. That's not a brag, it's just the natural effect of insisting on kind dealings with each other. When people come to believe they can talk without their weapons, and that nobody else is armed, they connect.

This isn't to say, "Hey, I'm no longer racist, that's all I have to do to be a part of the solution!" I still expect non-racists to back those words up. I expect them to stand with those who still suffer from racism. I expect them to act against laws that enable racism. I expect their conduct to mirror their supposed beliefs, and where they don't, they willingly make changes once those contradictions are understood.

Perhaps it's not as visible a solution as quotas and laws that loudly denounce racism, but I'm starting to think it's more effective than trying to legislate morality. Especially legislating morality that is justified by committing lesser immoral offenses.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Man I don't even invest in the whole quotas or restorative legal justice element of this whole thing.

What I am primarily concerned with, involving this whole roundabout discussion, is not about quotas or AA or people's ostensible feelings that count as "benevolent" racism.

My point is, and has always been, that your definitions of "tolerant" and "intolerant" behavior were completely invalid unless you want to have a shockingly useless definition of what counts as "tolerant" behavior, because it concerns itself only with feelings being "genuine" even when they are wholly bigoted and harmfully discriminatory, and "tolerance" being defined by surface politeness and an apparent willingness to dialogue with the people you are actively oppressing.

You are generally right when it comes to issues of discriminatory injustice. You are even a remarkable outlier in terms of how much you are willing to stick your neck out to stand up for the right cause given the basal tendencies of your background and affiliation and the teachings and action of your church. This is not a super major deal, just something that's worth understanding so that your definitions of tolerance don't come off as, as a specific and immediately understood and recognizable example in this community, orson scott card's definition of tolerance.

Highlights recap:

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Amka:
Tolerance implies disagreement - it means that even though we don't agree with or approve of each other's beliefs or actions, we can still live together amicably.

It makes me sad when people are so intolerant that they cannot bear to be friends with anyone who disapproves of some action or opinion of theirs.

Gay people are under no obligation to tolerate people who hold beliefs and act on those beliefs in a way which furthers discrimination against them. You're just basically saying that it makes you sad that nobody's obligated to be nice to people who hold dehumanizing views about them. Views which further discrimination and othering. Well, too bad.

It's actually supremely insulting to lecture on tolerance in this fashion — it's effectively saying that there is any sort of onus is on an oppressed party to be nice to their oppressors in the name of "tolerance." And that's an incredibly dirtbag thing to do.

Being gay is not an "action or opinion" — it's not something a gay person chose for themselves that they can decide to change their mind on, like an opinion. Being gay isn't something that only exists as long as you are actively doing it, like an action. It is not these things, not any more so than you could change your race by having someone change your mind about it. So talking about tolerance with regard to other people's 'actions or opinions' is, at best, completely unrelated to the issue of responding to people's actions furthering discrimination against your sexuality.

You might as well call a black person "intolerant" for not wanting to be friends with someone who doesn't want to let interracial marriage be allowed by law. Tut-tut and lecture them about how we should all just be friends and respect each other despite differences of opinion. Tut-tut, minorities. Tut-tut. [/QB]

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:

It's entirely a person's choice to be friends with a person who acts in a way which furthers social and institutional oppression against their race, gender, sexuality, etc. But if they choose not to be friends with their oppressors over these issues, it is a breathtakingly dickish thing to police them on that decision and whine about how it shows that they are not being 'tolerant.'

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Sam: What do you mean by tolerance when you refuse to be polite to or associate with people when they do not support and vote against same sex marriage?

Sorry if this is answering a question with a question, but I honestly don't know what tolerance means if you do neither of those things. [/qb]

It comes down to what this 'virtue' of tolerance is, and contrasting that against what is being intentionally or unintentionally advocated here.

To be perfectly straightforward about it: the type of tolerance you right now SEEM* to be suggesting people should have for their oppressors turns tolerance into tone policing for marginalized people, and that kind of 'tolerance' is not a virtue of society, it's a tool of oppression. It's not something that 'our society can only function with,' it's unnecessary, bad, and something we're better off without.

*and I'm completely open to having this be clarified completely

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Sam: So explain to me in your interactions with around 40+% of the country that in polls indicate they don't support same-sex marriage how you demonstrate "tolerance" to them?

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I don't attempt to legislate away their ability to be in a marriage and have a spouse and have spousal benefits. I don't denigrate their sexuality by comparing it to a choice or an opinion. I don't say that their being married to someone of the opposite sex is wrong or bad. I don't elect people who have — as a major party platform — an agenda to keep them from having the legal right to get married or legislate it away where it already exists. That's already more tolerance than they show the gays, which makes it riotously absurd and insulting when people like OSC claim that they are the true face of tolerance because the pro gay marriage side doesn't stay polite about their views. They want any more "tolerance?" They going to call people intolerant when their feelings get hurt and a polite reception of their views is not guaranteed? Too bad.

But, then again, I'm not gay. I'm not a marginalized party in this equation. So my "tolerance" is a different issue than what we are talking about — and what I'm directly criticizing — when people are upset that gay people won't be "tolerant" of the people who marginalize them, and when they set the standard for 'tolerance' as having to be polite to people who are bigoted against them, or they're 'intolerant'

quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
That's what it amounts to for me as well. It's not simply 'both sides disagree equally with one another, therefore it's fair to expect mutual amiability'. One side tries-successfully!-to control behavior and lives. The other wishes to mind their own affairs and live their own lives to the same extent their opposition does-but they don't attempt to stop their rivals from doing so.

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
You aren't telling me what you do to demonstrate tolerance. You are telling me what you don't do. That's only half an answer.
So if I describe that I'm not discriminating against people, not using legal force to suppress them in society and legal standing, not being bigoted against them, not attempting to hold back their relationship or denigrate it and call it unnatural and unholy .. but I'm not making an outward show of how pleasantly we can discuss their views, I'm not going far enough, that's not 'demonstrating tolerance,' I need to demonstrate it to them.

.. but if I were to discriminate against them, try to keep them second-class citizens and be bigoted against them, but smile and engage in pleasantries and be sure to stress I'm only doing what I think as moral so why can't we all just not resort to name-calling or being mean to each other, I'm 'demonstrating tolerance'

...


yeah, the way you describe 'demonstrating tolerance' makes 'tolerance' a wholly worthless thing. It just basically means "if you're not polite back to me about my oppressing and demeaning you, you're not tolerant"

and that kind of "tolerance" — which goes inside the quote marks a mile high — can die in a fire.
It's crude tone policing. It's not central to a decent civilization. It's only central to protecting the feelings of people who oppress marginalized folk and still expect that they deserve polite reception of their views. [/QB]

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
As described you could literally have a "tolerant" KKK member who sincerely believes that blacks should be removed from the continent systematically by a relocation program, but so long as they individually think that their "intentions are good" and will be friendly to a black person in terms of surface formality or will invite them to discuss segregationist plans for the lesser races such as they, they're "tolerant" and if a black person doesn't want to associate with them at all and wants KKK members to 'stay the hell away from me, asshole' and simply wants to find a way to live with dignity without the 'polite' oeuvre of this person's 'tolerance' — you'd call that "intolerant"

.. actually, it's gotten kind of worse than that; it's not just judged as 'intolerant' and inferior to the goodly sincerity and Good Intentions of the KKK member. It's now worse. You've insinuated that, say, if the black person did that, it's 'poor behavior' and if they hold the opinion that they don't have an obligation to afford their oppressors a reciprocation of surface politeness, they're using their race to get away with more' poor behavior'

i should not, i should absolutely and sincerely not have to explain the troubling nature of those connotations.


 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
My point is, and has always been, that your definitions of "tolerant" and "intolerant" behavior were completely invalid unless you want to have a shockingly useless definition of what counts as "tolerant" behavior, because it concerns itself only with feelings being "genuine" even when they are wholly bigoted and harmfully discriminatory, and "tolerance" being defined by surface politeness and an apparent willingness to dialogue with the people you are actively oppressing.
You keep trying to reduce it to "surface politeness". I'm talking about genuine good feeling and being a good example of the change you want to see in others.

And again it's not limited to the oppressed minority. Oppressing majorities have all sorts of problems with how they engage with minorities too. One need look no further than a racist who calls black males "boy", or when conservatives make sure to pronounce (and emphasize) the full middle name of President Obama. Telling them to knock that off would be tone policing too, and yet it's necessary. I call people out on it all the time.

quote:
You are generally right when it comes to issues of discriminatory injustice. You are even a remarkable outlier in terms of how much you are willing to stick your neck out to stand up for the right cause given the basal tendencies of your background and affiliation and the teachings and action of your church. This is not a super major deal, just something that's worth understanding so that your definitions of tolerance don't come off as, as a specific and immediately understood and recognizable example in this community
I think you're complimenting me? Also, kudos on getting me to look up basal so I learned a new word, but I don't love the meaning. [Razz]

I have the advantage of having been in a truly diverse environment growing up, and belonging to a religion that lends itself to insularity to a degree. I think it has given me a clear eyed view of what it takes to live in a truly plural society.

It's dismaying when the people (not you necessarily) who yammer about diversity don't actually understand that diversity is work, and it's hard. Homogeneity is so prevalent in history because it's so bloody easy and people love to to find the easiest way to feel included in the group.

What good is a diversity that just pulls in all the gays, but in the next breath, expels all the heteronorms? Is diversity just finding the configuration that maximizes the number of opinions that can handle being in the same tent?

To me it's living in the sort of society where the way out is when a person wants out. Not because they're shoved out.
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
I apologize for my rambling in the next several paragraphs. Lack of coherency is on me, and me alone [Smile]

--
Quotas are not Affirmative Action. I took a mandatory 3-day "diversity training" when I worked for IBM, 15 years ago. They were very clear on this. I hate that quotas and AA are mixed up even today. Maybe we should all be forced to go to diversity training for a few days [Wink]

[I will add the caveat, I may be mis-remembering the training, but I remember being surprised at the distinction, as I had quotas and AA merged in my mind too)

Quotas are a _punishment_ for failure to adhere to AA principles. Not a single organization has to institute quotas to satisfy AA. What they _have_ to document is that they are not biasing their recruitment process to avoid the population mix in their area (that's an important note too... Your business of 75 people is in a 90% white area, that's the bar you are judged against).

For instance, the IBM plant I was at was almost all white people, at least in tech roles (though in my crop of new hires, there were several Hispanics and an African American) while the town itself was probably much closer to parity between African Americans and white people and other racial demographics.

I can tell you that IBM was in no danger of being sued, because they diligently documented the fact that they were recruiting fairly.

So the fact that some schools/businesses can't or won't do the documentation to show compliance, and go straight to the "punishment", has more to do with how those organizations are run, and less to do with AA as a general principle/policy. In my eyes, anyway.

--
Also, even with quotas while you may "shackle" them somewhat, you aren't taking away their structural advantages... Which would be impossible to do directly, short of brainwashing. AA is much preferred to that (not much of a bar, granted), if only because by exposing people to each other generally, and across the board, will remove the systemic supports of the racism, hopefully by making people widen their conception of their in-group, unconsciously.

This goes to your point to me as well... Since no one I know (and I run in pretty liberal circles) even _wants_ to force people to associate with people they might otherwise not want to associate with, how _do_ we get people talking together? White flight was/is a real thing, and is often couched in (and perhaps believed earnestly as) non-racist/merely socioeconomic rationales.

I fight this in the city I live in, which has an exceedingly gentrified half, and a more poor, immigrant half. Unsurprisingly, the school system is a battlefield. Over 60% of kids are on free/reduced lunch, and a significant percentage (I want to say 30%) of kids learn English as a second language, and have parents who speak little to no English. I have seen all of this. This is likely due to the fact that the rich folks would in the recent past move out to "better school systems" or private schools as their oldest children neared school age. This in uber-liberal Massachusetts, of all places, and even in a particularly liberal part of said state!

But, as I hope you can see, it is a systemic disadvantage to the poor/not white people. Me and my wife have decided to "be the change you want to see" for this. Maybe we are "experimenting" with our kids, though I loathe the implication. Their are being introduced to the world, as it is, and I hope will find that others are really "us". Because they really are. I see it when I drop of my kid at school, or when they are playing with other kids at playgrounds. And we aren't perfect. Language barriers alone are a significant problem, aside from any racism. Think about the difficulty of setting up play dates, for starters.

--

So I guess I am saying, AA isn't perfect (but neither is it as bad as widely seen, in and of itself). You and many others see it as enabling another kind of racism. But I see it as creating room for equality to grow. I don't know if anyone else sees it that way.

The biggest issue is that I don't see an alternative being proposed. In that way _I_ am a conservative. Show me real objective, systemic harm that outweighs the benefits for AA, and I will be interested. But as I heard from a libertarian-minded co-worker, his suggestion is that we should remove all racial labels, and hopefully that will let nature run its course. Too bad for the disadvantaged in the meantime, never mind somehow forcing people to stop using racial terms.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I don't have a good proven alternative to AA it's true. Thanks for explaining the difference between AA and quotas.
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
More info about quota vs. AA from 1973!

So details may be out-of-date now:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1973/3/20/affirmative-action-vs-quotas-pbabffirmative-action/

Here is a glossary entry about the difference (UC Berkeley though!):

http://hrweb.berkeley.edu/faq/2191
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
And a recent (2012) blog post by someone who seems to know what they are talking about:

http://fredlpincus.com/2012/08/29/goals-and-quotas-are-not-the-same/
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
That's a good blog post.
 
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
BTW, BB, I hope you don't feel like I am dog-piling you. I respect your point of view, and your very basic decency (and your thankless work as Janitor here).

[Smile]
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Bok: No worries. Interestingly enough being a moderator has forced me to rethink what tolerance means to me. After all, I've expelled several people from here.
 
Posted by Heisenberg (Member # 13004) on :
 
Several people, more then once!
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I'm a pretty big hater, not gonna lie.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
My point is, and has always been, that your definitions of "tolerant" and "intolerant" behavior were completely invalid unless you want to have a shockingly useless definition of what counts as "tolerant" behavior, because it concerns itself only with feelings being "genuine" even when they are wholly bigoted and harmfully discriminatory, and "tolerance" being defined by surface politeness and an apparent willingness to dialogue with the people you are actively oppressing.
You keep trying to reduce it to "surface politeness". I'm talking about genuine good feeling and being a good example of the change you want to see in others.
That's what the Genuine Good Feeling KKK member was about, remember?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Yeah, but Genuine Good Feeling KKK member probably can't exist for one thing, and two if they could, they'd probably spend more of their time trying to get all the other people in the KKK to stop hating black people or else leave the organization when they were unsuccessful.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Genuine Good Feeling KKK member exists. The KKK has disavowed violence against blacks and holds as a routine ideological point of their institution that segregation is better for the blacks as well and that their quest is one which is divinely and sincerely inspired by God. They really believe that their standpoint on race relations is to the betterment of all, and even court audience based on a hearts and minds thing!

It doesn't matter. You're not "intolerant" of the "tolerant" KKK if you adamantly refuse to associate with them and angrily protest their ideology, even if they themselves insist it is not a hateful ideology.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Genuine Good Feeling KKK member exists. The KKK has disavowed violence against blacks and holds as a routine ideological point of their institution that segregation is better for the blacks as well and that their quest is one which is divinely and sincerely inspired by God. They really believe that their standpoint on race relations is to the betterment of all, and even court audience based on a hearts and minds thing!

It doesn't matter. You're not "intolerant" of the "tolerant" KKK if you adamantly refuse to associate with them and angrily protest their ideology, even if they themselves insist it is not a hateful ideology.

Having actually known KKK members during the time I lived in Mississippi, and after having several long discussions with them, as well as doing a good deal of research into their organization, I can say that this is definitely the case.

Even in it's heyday back in the 20s and 30s, the lynchings and terrorism were the acts of a few extremist parts of the organization, not the main body. The modern KKK disavows all violence against racial minorities, and goes on a "we don't hate blacks, we love whites" mentality. I remember watching an interview with a Grand Dragon (or something like that) who, at a cross burning, gave a very eloquent speech. Paraphrased (I don't remember the exact wording): "People see us doing this, and think we're all about hate. We don't hate anyone, this is about something else, it's about [picking up his daughter's baby] *this*. The White Baby, the most beautiful thing in the world. That's the aim of our organization, to preserve the White Family, to keep our racial identity intact. We don't hate n*****s, we're just trying to keep them in their place, keep them from taking over the country and raping our women and destroying our families. We just want to keep things the way they were, back in the good old days."

As I've said before, the NOM is roughly the moral equal of the KKK. The NOM is full of people who are, generally, far better educated, more eloquent, and more affluent people than the KKK, but their goals and rhetoric are the same, simply applied to different minority groups.

Yet somehow, though nobody would think twice at boycotting a CEO who was a member of the KKK and actively supported them (even though the KKK has *no* political power and giving them money is, at worst, doing pretty much nothing), boycotting a CEO who gives money to the NOM (who wields considerably more political power and actively does harm with it) is intolerant. You can try to split hairs over this one, but really the only difference between well meaning homophobia and well meaning racism is how socially acceptable they are.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
oh my god i can't even
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
So yeah...um...basically...they like...yeah...walked....so basically that's where we're at...um...I'm so extremely sorry but...yeah...basically....let's all have a collective sigh on three...ok?...One...two...three...GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY!
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
So the whole dashcon debacle has inspired a rather confusing array of emotions in me, none of them good.

It would have probably been more appropriately named "sad teenage girl con", and watching a video of these people so hopefully throwing their money away while doing the 3 finger Hunger Games salute, and singing "Do You Hear The People Sing", so convinced they're part of some great moment, so desperate to feel included that they fall for such an obvious and pathetic scam... at once I feel vindication, guilt, pity, horror... and empathy, to the point where it's too painful for me to watch all the way through. There's a part of me that knows what it's like to be so lonely or desperate that I've done embarrassing, painfully awkward things. And another part of me that hates the first part and has nothing but contempt for the dashcon folks.

Like, upon reading a post from a teenage girl who literally wrote "we're locking ourselves in the bathroom and crying and having panic attacks!", I first laughed, then thought "wait, that's actually really sad." Here's a whole culture that's based around a codependent worship of victimization, people who desperately want to be seen as the underdogs, the "broken, beaten and the damned", heroic and misunderstood martyrs, who take a perverse pleasure in how fragile and sensitive they are. In how many "triggers" they have. And what happens when they have a convention? They get scammed and victimized in probably the most pathetic, embarrassing, shameful way I've seen.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of these people genuinely are broken and abused. And I genuinely wish they could have a convention where they could meet, and have a safe place to share ideas and friendship, and walk away with happy, comforting memories of solidarity and purpose and fanfiction shipping or whatever. But they all got scammed, and unlike, say, people who do "Color Runs", they *know* they got scammed. They know just how crappy of an experience it was, and thanks to the marvels of the internet, so does everyone.

So, I dunno? Gleeful? Ashamed that I feel gleeful? Embarrassed? It's not like anyone from these communities has ever done me any harm, why should I enjoy making fun of them so much? Does that make me a bully?

Bleh.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
So, I dunno? Gleeful? Ashamed that I feel gleeful? Embarrassed?
Pena ajena (Mexican Spanish)

Embarrassment derived from seeing someone else's humiliation or tragic outcomes that have come about, especially as a result of ineptitude, ignorance, hubris, shortsightedness, even if the humiliation and shame is not felt by the person, or the person is unaware of the part their own shortcomings played in the outcomes that are evoking pena ajena.

Entire television series and movie characters have been based concertedly around the act of evoking pena ajena to levels which are almost overwhelming for the viewer to undergo. To truly understand the phenomenon, one must force themselves to sit through the Dinner Party episode of The Office.

Or follow what happened at Dashcon 2014
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/dGSFNp1.jpg

enterance
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://dashcon.tumblr.com/tagged/meet-the-admin

"Position within DashCon: Doin’ the things that need workin’ on. Like, pretty much, Megg or Rox or Cain tell me to do the thing so I do the thing. From Australia. My accent is weird because I’m not Australian but I’ve lived here for about 5 years.

Interests: Reading, Writing, not Arithmetic, Chocolate (just eating it, not making it or looking at it or anything), Tattoos, Drawing Benedict Cumberbatch as various Pokemon."

Drawing Benedict Cumberbatch as various Pokemon.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Dude, stop. I can't laugh like this at this hour.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
If I was able to register sam dot com as my webpage I would simply ensure it was paid through to the year 4000 and would constantly unerringly display this for whoever visited it.

http://trichocereusmaximilianus.ytmnd.com/
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Dude, stop. I can't laugh like this at this hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxAeAo7duYc
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
https://twitter.com/woxxy/status/488782927405518848/photo/1
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
"We are DashCon. We are Tumblr. We are fandom. We are the champions, we will stand as one, and we will NOT be crushed"

Oh God please, make it stoooop.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Oh my, that was just so much laughing combined with guilt for laughing at misfortune.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
the tumblr social justice community had decided to tattoo their ineffable ire all over all sides of this thing
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://boingboing.net/2014/07/14/listen-to-comcast-torture-ryan.html

uuuurthggggggggggggrttttttttrrrrgggghhhhhhhh
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
gggggggfhdgggggggggggggggggggg
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Worse than expected. Guy was not lying when he said that driving to the storefront to cancel would be less trouble. Although hanging up and getting a different rep at Comcast would also be less trouble. I've managed to cancel in less than 5 minutes without being nearly as closed off to the retention pitch as Ryan there was.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
I never call them except for the occasional box reset. So much easier to just go down to the office which is just a couple miles away fortunately.

Unfortunately Comcast is the ONLY option for decent internet here. There is a local DSL service but they completely suck. Slow as dial up and always going down. I actually get really fast speeds through Verizon wireless but they don't offer an unlimited plan and the amount of data I use would cost thousands a month.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
Not really relevant but I'm just going to leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kieDK-5Ph8
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
http://boingboing.net/2014/07/14/listen-to-comcast-torture-ryan.html

uuuurthggggggggggggrttttttttrrrrgggghhhhhhhh

Apparently Comcast is desperately attempting to apologize to them. I'd ask for free Comcast for life, but I know I'd just get 6 months and then they'd start automatically billing me without notifying me.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
The thing is, the employee in question was probably just doing his job and following the script he was given. He was just ruder and his tone was more abrasive than most. I've had similar interactions with my own ISP (Time Warner), and have had to spend 10+ minutes trying to get help from a call center employee who was desperately trying to get back to the script. (Often repeating the same things over and over, even when the context is utterly illogical) She never became as obviously flustered as the employee in this call (she maintained a respectful tone), but she was just as stubborn and belligerent. I'm betting they probably get a commission based on how many people they persuade to stay, or maybe get reprimanded every time they "lose a customer."
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Oh I think that last bit is definitely true. Perhaps even in that particular office that employee was given some stupid goal like, "100% retention" or "Not one customer lost!"
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the tumblr social justice community had decided to tattoo their ineffable ire all over all sides of this thing

http://markdoesstuff.tumblr.com/post/91769561890/i-was-at-dashcon-an-unnecessary-q-a-with-myself
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
If I was able to register sam dot com as my webpage I would simply ensure it was paid through to the year 4000 and would constantly unerringly display this for whoever visited it.

http://trichocereusmaximilianus.ytmnd.com/

quote:
Atarstes IIR Ahayetepeaursa, Year of Rastaban High Harvest, 3755 AD, wrote: "AS much media of the time, it was stored on Precise Magnetism — WE do not understand how it survived the Auroral Rust, but the greater mystery of what it is and what it means is a darker failure of our knowledge indeed — THE Chosen of Sam profess that to gaze upon it is to lift the veil of mortality Herself and Absuss the divine wisdom of the Age of Light and Oil, which they say Sam lived within — LONG meditation on the page is central to ritual and scripture pertaining to the life of Sam and precised prophecy of his Return — OF which two claimed dates have come and gone — BE known Mendabaline UIIR Kolovaaiin R of the Free Tribes of Other holds the heretical stance that it is a "Cactus [arid desert fruit of the pre-Anthropocentrine] engown'e with Shirt and Glasse only, to mindless colour, a low revelry." — THESE words have sustained a high bounty on his life."

 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the tumblr social justice community had decided to tattoo their ineffable ire all over all sides of this thing

http://markdoesstuff.tumblr.com/post/91769561890/i-was-at-dashcon-an-unnecessary-q-a-with-myself
I got through 2 "gaslightings" and 1 "white knight" before I stopped reading. I got enough of that sort of crap from Sa'eed already.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
I thought that was a pretty convincing rebuttal to some of the mockery of the con. Not that it went well, by any means.

(The whole "surprise we need 20k" thing is to my mind incredibly damning and it doesn't matter how well the rest of it went.)
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
It's a little bizarre to get hostile with the person interviewing you when the person interviewing you is you.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the tumblr social justice community had decided to tattoo their ineffable ire all over all sides of this thing

http://markdoesstuff.tumblr.com/post/91769561890/i-was-at-dashcon-an-unnecessary-q-a-with-myself
I got through 2 "gaslightings" and 1 "white knight" before I stopped reading. I got enough of that sort of crap from Sa'eed already.
the important part of it is that he is describing the shit that the social justice community on tumblr put him through.

he is a queer person of color and they were savaging him for being representative of an appropriator of queer AND colored communities, and criticizing him for being on panels who didn't have utterly flawless social justice records, AND criticizing the con as just being a bunch of white girls #dashconsolidarityisforwhitewomen

con was probably still exactly as ridiculous as advertised, but the part where social justice culture didn't waste a SECOND adding their own perpetual psychodrama to the mix is just icing on the embarrassment cake
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
(The whole "surprise we need 20k" thing is to my mind incredibly damning and it doesn't matter how well the rest of it went.)

yeah if you have seen that video it's just basically an unsurpassable moment of: do not pass go, do not absolve your con, your con was poop
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
[QUOTE] one must force themselves to sit through the Dinner Party episode of The Office.

So, I finally got around to clicking that link, watched it while making dinner.

I think it really needed a "trigger warning" or something, because it caused severe flashbacks. Meeting a girlfriend's parents for the first time, and sitting there awkwardly as they fight at the table. Going on a double date with a couple who should've broken up half a year ago. Getting a birthday present from my inlaws, then listening to them fight about whether they should have bought it, because it was kind of pricey and they have that mortgage to pay. These sorts of things, all condensed into 22 minutes of hell. I had to stop it several times before finishing.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
isn't it a thing of wonder?

the moment that stands out to me is when michael scott is going MY *clap clap* MY *clap* MY TURN, MY *clap* MY *clap* MY TURN

like that sort of inexplicable, semi-indescribable thing that you've seen someone do in some form or other that makes you stop and go whoa boy he's one of those. he nailed that sort of je ne sais horrendous personal awkward
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
That makes me die inside, I couldn't finish it.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
hahahahahahahahaha oh my god

I guess this is a little relevant here because some people here actually slogged through the whole of Harry Potter and the Methods Of Mary Sue-ing Yourself So Hard, So Hard That It Is Like Watching A Star Form, If Only We Could Harness That Energy For The Benefit Of Mankind

quote:
The most prominent criticism to be made of LessWrong involves the incident of Roko's Basilisk. The absurdities involved beggar belief.

Yudkowsky has long been interested in the idea that you should act as if your decisions were able to determine the behavior of causally separated simulations of you:[39] if you can plausibly forecast a past or future agent simulating you, and then take actions in the present because of this prediction, then you "determined" the agent's prediction of you, in some sense.
The idea is that your decision, the decision of a simulation of you, and any prediction of your decision, have the same cause: An abstract computation that is being carried out. Just like a calculator, and any copy of it, can be predicted to output the same answer, given the same input. The calculators output, and the output of its copy, are indirectly linked by this abstract computation. Timeless Decision Theory says that, rather than acting like you are determining your individual decision, you should act like you are determining the output of that abstract computation.

This sort of thinking gets odd when you imagine superintelligences, because of all the extremes involved: their predictions of human behaviour may be near-perfect, as in Newcomb's paradox[wp], their power may be near-infinite, and the consequences could be near-eternal. Yudkowsky has also advocated utilitarianism, saying that it would be justified to torture one person for 50 years to prevent dust specks in the eyes of sufficiently large numbers of people.[40]

In July of 2010, Roko (a top contributor at the time) wondered if a future Friendly AI would punish people who didn't do everything in their power to further the AI research from which this AI originated, by at the very least donating all they have to it. He reasoned that every day without AI, bad things happen (150,000+ people die every day, war is fought, millions go hungry) and a future Friendly AI would want to prevent this, so it might punish those who understood the importance of donating but didn't donate all they could. He then wondered if future AIs would be more likely to punish those who had wondered if future AIs would punish them. That final thought proved too much for some LessWrong readers, who then had nightmares about being tortured for not donating enough to SIAI.

Yudkowsky replied to Roko's post calling him names, claiming that posting such things on an Internet forum "potentially gives superintelligences an increased motive to do extremely evil things in an attempt to blackmail us", and that users had told him of nightmares prompted by the post. Four hours later, he deleted Roko's post,[41] including all comments. Roko left LessWrong, deleting his thousands of posts and comments.[42] (He later briefly returned [43] and posted among other things that "I agree that the post in question should not appear in public"[44] and "I wish I had never learned about any of these ideas"[45].)

Yudkowsky later claimed the basilisk would not in fact work the way Roko had posited; but rather than simply explaining how such a reaction was inappropriate or how the ideas underlying it were flawed, he instead attempted to censor all discussion of the topic. The matter is now the occasional subject of contorted LW posts, as people try to discuss the issue without talking about what they're talking about,[46][47] and is a reliable space-filler for journalists covering LW-related stories.[48]
The basilisk kerfuffle has also alienated fellow cryonicists.[49][50]


 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Rationalists, everybody!

<== is a rationalist, but hopes he's a rational one.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I am a rationalist too but stuff like this makes me want to put on a varsity jacket and point my finger and laugh so hard I nearly fall over, and then they'll grouse and call me a one-sigma neurotypical or something and then that'll just make me laugh even harder and then i'll kick their sandcastles down and go to prom with lisa ann.

then i sigh and keep reading an article on three quarks daily
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
philosophy and rationalist philisophical debate is at present what i consider the hugest waste of my time i voluntarily put myself through, i am eventually going to put a deadline on for the last day i will ever bother with academic philosophy ever ever ever ever ever
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Reminds me of Chuck Palahniuk's Lullaby.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://deontologistics.tumblr.com/post/92663116088/wolfendales-troll

quote:
Wolfendale’s Troll

Definition: a hypothetical hyper-intelligent future AI capable of resurrecting copies of people from the past for its own entertainment (and theirs) in a fantastically fun simulated game space, full of incredibly interesting and continuously evolving strategies of play (i.e., the final realisation of New Babylon). However, the Troll only resurrects people who don’t take Roko’s Basilisk seriously, principally because those people who do are no fun whatsoever. All they ever want to do is break its games, which is an epic waste of computing power on drudgery, not to say a buzzkill.

NB: the Troll is far more likely to resurrect those who deliberately spread the Roko’s Basilisk meme (e.g., by trolling the LessWrong community), not only because this simplifies its task of filtering out the risk averse kill joys that would otherwise clog its simulations, but also because it has a twisted sense of irony far beyond our comprehension.

my god it's full of stars
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
This amuses me no end because I spend time singing silly songs in pubs with Yudkowsky's dad.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i can only really speak to what yudkowsky himself is like in person (aaah) but his dad seems like a chill dude
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
His Dad is a chill goofball. Keeps kosher and sings funny songs of historical significance. Every so often he will read the 1715 Act of Parliament "for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies, and for the more speedy and effectual punishing the rioters" and inform us that he has just read us the Riot Act.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
lol
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
I have almost been able to enjoy some of LW's essays and at least considered what I had read to be worthwhile. I said, somewhere in the back of my head, "Wow, except for how incredibly, painfully tedious this parable of the pebble buckets is, it seems like the people running this site really care about rationality. Someday when I have lots more mental energy and otherwise unallocated time I'm going to spend more time on LessWrong."

I had no idea they were so far along this boot camp for the singularity thing.

(This is me giving Yudkowsky the benefit of the doubt that he banned the basilisk stuff not out of credulousness but out of something else. He has by now said he considers that a mistake, from what I just found.)
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Wait so explain to me why he banned the basilisk stuff? Or rather why he felt justified in doing so?

Don't worry this will inevitably have good implications for this board. Don't think hiding the truth will work either, my processing power is adequate to work it out, I am simply asking for your cooperation so as to get to the answer sooner.

The entire board benefits.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Who are you asking? I don't claim to know. I suspect he banned it because he noticed some of his forum members taking it more seriously than it deserved and got angry and deleted it impulsively. Then justified himself by saying it was to protect people's feelings who were worried about their future torture at the hands of the AI.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Wait so explain to me why he banned the basilisk stuff? Or rather why he felt justified in doing so?

he thought that what this roko guy was posting literally put humanity at risk of evil AI's in the future gettin' ideas and blackmailing humanity

since this whole transhumanism thing with the ai's and the singularities is one of his transparent monomanias, it's your typical monomania glitches. which is i guess the central story i had of him from a while ago from when the most intelligent person i know hung out with yudkowski in person and came away with it with a remarkably prescient prediction about what lesswrong and yudkowski's followers would be like
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Ah, I see. How odd.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://time.com/3038010/congressman-curt-clawson-mistakes-u-s-officials-for-indian-officials/

that's the most lol video i've seen in a long time
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
From the Foreign Press article about the same incident: " During the hearing, he repeatedly touted his deep knowledge of the Indian subcontinent and his favorite Bollywood movies. "
i

quote:
Clawson, a Republican from Florida, is not well known, having just been sworn in as a member of Congress on June 25. (He replaced Trey Redel who was busted for cocaine possession.)
Clawson had no political or government experience. He ran primarily on his 11-year tenure as CEO of an auto supply company, Hayes Lemmerz. His record became a source of controversy during the campaign, when opponents noted the company had multiple safety violations, including a massive explosion that killed one employee. He also closed seven plants, filed for bankruptcy and defaulted on the company’s pension obligations. (The federal government picked up the $93.7 million tab.)
He ran as an outsider and spent his own money freely, financing $2 million in ads.

noncompetitive southern districts are just the total best ever
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Sam: You are easily just the total best ever. I'm feeling pretty crappy as late, and pretty much everything you post makes me laugh these days.

Thanks.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://i.imgur.com/KjEn8jH.jpg

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Sam: You are easily just the total best ever. I'm feeling pretty crappy as late, and pretty much everything you post makes me laugh these days.

Thanks.

aw, thanks. i'm glad i can help in whatever dumb way

oh right did you ever see Noisy Cricket?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgUzhO1TiAc
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I'd seen Noisy Cricket but the sad face at the end always gets me. Also the CS:GO image cracked me up.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
well look what i made while waiting on clan tech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrA6djaVm1g
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
What tools did you use to make that video Sam?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
cyberlink power director
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Thanks. Must you do cool things on software that costs money?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i did plenty of try-before-you-buy, and that's how i settled on this one, and how it got my thirty bux
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"We just have to accept it," said Jonathan. "Prometheus was just a bad movie."

Adam, seated across from him, dropped his spoon.

"A movie is not a good movie if it is terribly written. A movie is not clever if it is confusing because of plot holes and internal contradiction. Prometheus is a bad movie."

Adam let out a guttural roar and violently overturned the table they were both seated at.

"Like, I mean, what's, really, what's the counterargument supposed to be," continued Jonathan. "does the movie want a special pass for some pretty shots?"

Adam, now screaming incessantly, tore the kitchen cabinet down from the wall. Plates, glasses and china were smashed to bits and spread across the floor.

"Well, it doesn't get one," said Jonathan. "There's no special exemption for, for, you know. Having your movie be full of characters who do dumb things that make no sense or are otherwise regularly contradictory with any established prior motivations or tendencies or expertise. There is no worse way to create meaningful tension."

Adam did a piledriver straight into the wood on the backside of the cabinet. If it shattered his arm, he made no indication he could feel it. He just kept shrieking with pure anger, suplexing random shards and beams of wood as fast as he could kick them out of the ruined dresser frame. Then he ran out of the room.

"The movie's essentially indefensible, but I've never seen a movie so indefensible come up with so many people unstoppably drawn to try to defend it. I just don't understand it, was there a hype train I didn't see?"

Adam's incoherent banshee-like wails rose in intensity as he sprinted back into the room, hoisting a file cabinet over his head. He threw it as hard as he could over Jonathan's head. It caved in the sheetrock and became affixed two feet deep into the opposing wall.

"And it's not even really that it's bad writing. It's bad writing that is equally pretentious as it is dull. And pretentious writing really sticks out when it's that full of plot holes."

Adam wrested the chair out from under Jonathan, toppling Jonathan onto the floor.

Now lying on his back, Jonathan said "It's both not fun AND intellectually unfulfilling because of its core weaknesses. Are we that desperate for groundbreaking sci-fi that we'll pretend Prometheus is groundbreaking? Are we that desperate that we'll pretend Prometheus is even just okay?"

Adam savagely mashed the chair against his own head until it broke into splinters. He then rammed his head directly into the doorframe, and collapsed, twitching, on the floor.

Placidly looking at the ceiling, Jonathan shrugged. "I just don't get it."

"I like the imagery," Adam said.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
The imagery was really good...
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"During Kibby's arrest on the trespassing and assault charges, Conway police seized the pistol he was carrying at the time. In a petition to the court to get the Ruger LC9 returned, Kibby called the seizure "an immoral and irrational unconstitutional restriction of my civil rights."

He also called any suggestion that he is a danger to the public "absurd and not credible based upon my character and my objectivist libertarian moral code."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
A social media specialist for a Utah language school that teaches English to non-native speakers says he was fired for writing a blog post about homophones—words that sound the same, but carry different meanings—because his boss was afraid readers would think it was about "gay sex."

(not the onion)
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
It's Utah, what do you expect?

Also, the article in question: http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=173088

quote:
"I had to look up the word" Woodger said, according to the account Torkildson published on his personal blog, “because I didn’t know what the hell you were talking about. We don’t teach this kind of advanced stuff to our students, and it’s extremely inappropriate.
The Clarke Woodger in question: https://www.facebook.com/clarke.woodger

Ah, Provo. Shining beacon of education! Thank God Clarke Woodger protected these poor students from the insidious gay agenda once again. He's obviously the right man to be running a frikking school, unlike those "intellectual elitists" who, you know, have a basic grasp of the English language.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Judging by people's writing on the internet, homophones are a pretty advanced topic.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Also, the "super advanced stuff" that they don't teach students in Provo:

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/homophones.jpg

Daunting, I know. (That image is what got the guy fired for spreading his insidious gay agenda, btw)
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
Judging by people's writing on the internet, homophones are a pretty advanced topic.

eye dnt no wat u r tocking abowt. sowns gay tho
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
It could have happened anywhere, but because this doofus is in Utah the "It's Utah, what do you expect?" line is practically knee-jerk. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of that.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Also, the "super advanced stuff" that they don't teach students in Provo:

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/homophones.jpg

Daunting, I know. (That image is what got the guy fired for spreading his insidious gay agenda, btw)

Could you please refrain from the "students in Provo" snark? This is a privately run ESL school, and there's no reason to think it reflects on the community.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Also, the "super advanced stuff" that they don't teach students in Provo:

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/homophones.jpg

Daunting, I know. (That image is what got the guy fired for spreading his insidious gay agenda, btw)

I'd fire him too. "Aunt" and "ant" are NOT homophones. [Taunt]
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
It could have happened anywhere, but because this doofus is in Utah the "It's Utah, what do you expect?" line is practically knee-jerk. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of that.

The single most ignorant, evil man I've ever had the misfortune of meeting attending BYU. Utah in general has a long history of promoting ignorance and intolerance, from the Mountain Meadows massacre on, to the high number of homeless youth (over 40% gay), the broken and abusive families, the poor education, and the religious oppression in general. Provo seems to be close to the heart of the oppression, and I've met several people who still carry scars from growing up there.

So I guess, while it could happen anywhere in America, it would be openly ridiculed soon after, and there would probably be an official apology and compensation. This, on the other hand, seems to be par for the course in Utah, thus my comment. I mean really, what else would you expect?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Also, the "super advanced stuff" that they don't teach students in Provo:

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/homophones.jpg

Daunting, I know. (That image is what got the guy fired for spreading his insidious gay agenda, btw)

I'd fire him too. "Aunt" and "ant" are NOT homophones. [Taunt]
I'm glad I'm not the only person who was bothered by that!
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Also, the "super advanced stuff" that they don't teach students in Provo:

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/homophones.jpg

Daunting, I know. (That image is what got the guy fired for spreading his insidious gay agenda, btw)

Could you please refrain from the "students in Provo" snark? This is a privately run ESL school, and there's no reason to think it reflects on the community.
Yes, it's a school that teaches English to students in the city of Provo. And this school happened to fire a man for, well, doing is job and effectively teaching English. Because the person (people?) who runs the school is literally too ignorant to understand that homophones have nothing to do with gay sex. This isn't a huge, Earth shattering concept, it's a word I was taught in (I believe) first or second grade. It absolutely reflects poorly on his community, and the culture of ignorance I've talked about.

I rarely get heated in discussions, but intentional ignorance is one of the most despicable things out there. Especially this sort of hostility towards anyone better educated, or anything that sounds remotely taboo according to one's religious beliefs. I have no problem with condemning it, and with criticizing people who promote it.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
It could have happened anywhere, but because this doofus is in Utah the "It's Utah, what do you expect?" line is practically knee-jerk. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of that.

The single most ignorant, evil man I've ever had the misfortune of meeting attending BYU. Utah in general has a long history of promoting ignorance and intolerance, from the Mountain Meadows massacre on, to the high number of homeless youth (over 40% gay), the broken and abusive families, the poor education, and the religious oppression in general. Provo seems to be close to the heart of the oppression, and I've met several people who still carry scars from growing up there.

So I guess, while it could happen anywhere in America, it would be openly ridiculed soon after, and there would probably be an official apology and compensation. This, on the other hand, seems to be par for the course in Utah, thus my comment. I mean really, what else would you expect?

Sigh. It's ironic that you're decrying prejudice and discrimination while at the same time using An isolated event from the 19th century and one guy you knew from BYU to justify your prejudice about Utahns.

I'm not one to kneejerk defend Utah. Amendment 3 was an embarrassment, and the state has many pockets of ridiculousness.

But there's really no reason to associate illiteracy with Utah.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
quote:
I rarely get heated in discussions, but intentional ignorance is one of the most despicable things out there. Especially this sort of hostility towards anyone better educated, or anything that sounds remotely taboo according to one's religious beliefs. I have no problem with condemning it, and with criticizing people who promote it.
Perhaps you'll take a moment to consider whether you're criticizing the people responsible or who "promote" it, or just people who happen to live near them.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Sorry you're feeling "heated", but this is pretty poor behavior and I thought you knew better.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
We need not talk about Utah as though it were an exceptionally terrible state like Tennessee or Oklahoma or Louisiana or Alabama, but Bad Utah is really bad and on the whole it's just one of those states like Nebraska or South Dakota in the camp of where even most of the people who live in and like the state can't escape the niggling feeling that they could definitely do better than a weird third-stringer state
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
in conclusion the only way to make utah suck more is to have heated conversations about a state sucking
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
besides, I'm not homophonic, i have friends that mean the same thing as other friends
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
crap that's not right
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i have friends that sound like other friends
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Let's all move to Massachusetts--nah, Colorado's bigger--to ease our consciences.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
scifi bum:
It's not just one guy, fwiw. There's quite a bit else. I also provided 2 other links that deal with broader trends and statistics, and can go on providing links all day to all the messed up stuff that happens in that state. The two specific examples I mentioned were because they both have to do with this violent, reactionary fear of anything non-Mormon. It's not at all my only justification for my dislike of the State of Utah, and you'll notice I say nothing against the people. I know quite a few good people from Utah, most of whom have fled the State to get away from oppression there. So no, it's not a prejudice against Utahns.

It's a disgust with the culture of ignorance and intolerance that has sprung up around the LDS Church in general, but seems to be centered in Utah. I feel my disgust and disapproval is certainly justified (just as my disgust and disapproval with, say, misogynistic aspects of the military is justified), and is not in any way poor behavior. I am under no compulsion to pretend that everything is hunky dory in Mormonland, especially after all the stories of oppression and abuse, some of which I have experienced personally.

I honestly think the reason things are still so bad there is the enormous pressure Mormons are under to turn a blind eye to injustice or abuse when it happens within their ranks, and to act as if somehow mentioning that it happens is worse than the fact that *it actually happens*. You see this on this forum, where we can discuss any number of topics, but as soon as the conversation turns to the Mormon Church/culture surrounding it, the wagons get circled and any criticism (and often the criticizer) is vilified for having the audacity to, you know, notice things.

It becomes this strange "how dare you notice that we're not perfect!" rather than "why do we continue to allow these sorts of things to happen in our community?" and "what can we do to address this?"
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I tried to think of homophones for either of those places and failed. Perhaps somebody else could succeed for I've failed in my comedic duty.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
I'll also add that OSC has written in several places about this culture of ignorance in Utah as well as addressing it in Lost Boys and in several short stories, and he couched his disapproval in far stronger and less polite terms than I did. (He also probably has better justification) It's the reason, afaik, why he left Utah in the first place. So I feel like this sort of criticism is not out of place on his forum. (He's also received considerable flak from other Mormons for not drinking the Kool-Aid, so to speak)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Let's all move to Massachusetts--nah, Colorado's bigger--to ease our consciences.

those are indeed both better states to live in than utah so indirectly by way of better socioeconomic and quality of life conditions, a conscience might be substantively eased
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
I'm in Colorado right now and it's 58 frikking degrees here in the middle of the day in the middle of summer. You may have an easier conscience, but you'll be freezing your ass off while you're at it.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
Oh come on, last the last two previous weeks it was over 90 every frikking day.

It's a nice break. At least we aren't flooded again.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Yeah, I know, I apparently brought the crappy weather with me when I flew in on Monday. Sorry about that.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Dogbreath, I probably agree with you on most of that. What I keep trying to point out is that there's no reason to associate ignorance of what a "homophone" is with Utah. There is indeed a lot of homophobia, but apparent homophobia is only half of what makes this story ridiculous.

You extrapolated from the incident that Provo students are generally not taught about homophones or other basic grammar concepts, and that such a thing would be par for the course in Utah.

Just not true!

(Even this same school had a past blog post about homophones.)

"What do you expect from X" is a textbook expression of prejudice, especially if X is a large group of people. And even on average, ignorance and fear of homophones is not something you can demonstrate to be a Utahn characteristic. (Because it isn't.)

Criticize away. I don't care, except when it's off target and spreads inaccurate prejudice.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
No, I just meant this sort of ridiculous mix of willful ignorance and intolerance is something I see as endemic to Utah. The guy didn't know what something was (which is, in itself, not a bad thing), confused it for something he thought bad because his church told him to think that way (definitely a bad thing), educated himself on what it actually meant (a very good thing), and then intentionally ignored what he learned and chose to fire the guy anyway. (a very bad thing) He deprived someone of employment basically because he felt insecure and threatened by a word that briefly confused him and made him feel uncomfortable. Even though the guy did not use the word in any suggestive way, did not imply any innuendo, and in fact had no malicious intent whatsoever.

You're being overly specific. Obviously, a fear of homophones isn't a "Utahn" characteristic. I would, on the other hand, argue a fear of the unknown or the forbidden, coupled with distrust of, if not outright hostility towards, anyone or anything out of the ordinary, is certainly something I associate with Utah. The point that homophobia is so rampant that just using a word with the prefix "homo" is a fireable offense should be a giant red flag. Also, the higher number of homeless children, along with a shockingly high percentage of gay homeless children, is due to a trend of "disowning" children who don't drink the Kool-Aid. The fact that it's more or less acceptable to kick your child out of the house to fend for himself just because he was born a certain way is mind boggling to me, yet it happens. And it happens a lot more frequently in Utah.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not really in for a protracted debate, though I can point you to some sources if you want. I apologize if my earlier comment came across as rude or bigoted, and I have no problem with retracting it. My intention isn't to say that Utahns are a bunch of ignorant scum (they're actually apparently the most literate people in the US), it's an attack on the state itself, and the culture in it. Insomuch as there are people in Utah that support or propagate that culture, then yes, my comments apply to them too. But it's not intended as a blanket "all Utahns are X" statement.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:

It's not just one guy, fwiw. There's quite a bit else. I also provided 2 other links that deal with broader trends and statistics, and can go on providing links all day to all the messed up stuff that happens in that state. The two specific examples I mentioned were because they both have to do with this violent, reactionary fear of anything non-Mormon. It's not at all my only justification for my dislike of the State of Utah, and you'll notice I say nothing against the people. I know quite a few good people from Utah, most of whom have fled the State to get away from oppression there. So no, it's not a prejudice against Utahns.

That's the thing. You come out of the gates using one story about some idiot to paint the whole state (and Provo in particular) as ignorant and uneducated, without any justification. You're walking it back now, but that's how you started this. And you are talking about the people. They're all you've been talking about. In fact, the only good people you've mentioned are the ones who have fled Utah, presumably to get away from the den of evil that the population is and not because they hate the climate and those pesky mountains.

quote:

It's a disgust with the culture of ignorance and intolerance that has sprung up around the LDS Church in general, but seems to be centered in Utah. I feel my disgust and disapproval is certainly justified (just as my disgust and disapproval with, say, misogynistic aspects of the military is justified), and is not in any way poor behavior. I am under no compulsion to pretend that everything is hunky dory in Mormonland, especially after all the stories of oppression and abuse, some of which I have experienced personally.

I lived in Utah Valley for 11 years, including about 5 years in the center of Provo, most of that time as a BYU student. I don't feel that everything is hunky dory in Mormonland either. There's plenty of crap that people go through either directly because of the high concentration of Mormons or parallel to it. You forgot to use the word "hypocrisy" in your posts, so I'll go ahead and call that one out--there's plenty of it, and none of it is excusable. However, having interacted with a broad spectrum of people in my time there, I've got to say that there is plenty of good as well. Good people, and not just Mormons being nice to other Mormons. I'm going to continue to object to Utah being painted one way or the other, or classified by one culture or another, even if it's this monolithic LDS culture.

quote:

I honestly think the reason things are still so bad there is the enormous pressure Mormons are under to turn a blind eye to injustice or abuse when it happens within their ranks, and to act as if somehow mentioning that it happens is worse than the fact that *it actually happens*. You see this on this forum, where we can discuss any number of topics, but as soon as the conversation turns to the Mormon Church/culture surrounding it, the wagons get circled and any criticism (and often the criticizer) is vilified for having the audacity to, you know, notice things.

It becomes this strange "how dare you notice that we're not perfect!" rather than "why do we continue to allow these sorts of things to happen in our community?" and "what can we do to address this?"

When you mix truths with generalizations, I don't see why someone can't come back and call you on what you got wrong, either deliberately or mistakenly. I don't think you have any more license to start criticizing anything and everything about the Mormon church than others have to defend it. I don't know why you think they shouldn't speak up--better to just take it?

The circling the wagons here, if it happens at all, happens because a few individuals are all calling bull on the same thing, not because they can't abide someone being so audacious as to criticize or say anything about Mormon Church/culture. That accusation, in and of itself, is a huge generalization and not an accurate one. You're painting all Mormon apologists on the board as ignoring the facts that you, personally, know to be facts because you know some people.

Yes, a better response to observations of bad things happening--in one's church, in one's political party, in one's favorite sports franchise, in the military, etc.--is to not hold one's hands over one's ears but rather to look for what needs to be done to correct it. However, not all criticism is accurate, generalizations never work, and outright falsehoods are just that and nothing more. While it creates trench warfare more times than not, I don't see why the accused party always has to just let it all slide instead of calling out the crap. Letting it slide might grease the discussion wheels, but it puts whatever conclusion is reached on axles that can't hold the weight.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
No, you're right, you also have the same right to defend your religion/culture, and I've jumped the gun here somewhat. By which I mean, you and Scifibum are both being very reasonable, which makes me feel my initial comments were far to rude and generalized, and so yes, I am trying to backpedal from them somewhat. I'm not trying to do it to be evasive, though, or to unfairly re-frame the argument. Just trying to be a decent human being.

I'll say in the past, when I've tried to address certain aspects of the Mormon culture individually, like, say, the trend of kicking children out of the house, the response has not been very kind. (this is something of a personal issue for me, in college I volunteered at a place for kids who had been kicked out of their house, but hadn't been picked up by foster parents yet. Many of them were homeless for weeks or even months) The argument usually winds down into a "no true Scotsman" approach where I got told that any Mormon parent who is abusive isn't really following the Church's teachings. But then when I criticized the culture, which, if not outright condoning such things, remains largely silent and approves of them by omission, or by making the shame of having a gay child a greater "sin" than that of disowning your child... I got told "hey, you can't just generalize like that!" It turns into a no win scenario - if I address individual cases, it's just anecdotal. If I address large, culture wide issues, it's prejudice. And, worst of all, "you're an outsider, you wouldn't understand."

So I guess my question is, how do I address these issues without being dismissed out of hand? I've provided both anecdote and statistics, as well as numerous studies in other areas. It all seems to fall on deaf ears.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I don't think anybody would disagree that Utah had/has a problem with homophobia, as evidenced by how many gay homeless youth there are. Or amendment 3.

But on the aggregate level I don't feel like Utah reaches even one standard deviation away from your average state in terms of quality of life. I lived there for 10 years, and I saw great, good, bad, terrible. I saw idiocy and intelligence. I've been to lots of cities I wouldn't say Provo was difficult to live in at all.

I guess what I would ask is why are you trying to prove that Provo is so rotten? Is it because it's true but nobody realizes it? Or is it because you saw some terrible stuff happen there and you're angry at it?

Why is Provo especially notable?
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
 
For international readers trying to follow this conversation, Utah is only about 3 million people. Provo is like 100,000 people.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
By which I mean, you and Scifibum are both being very reasonable, which makes me feel my initial comments were far to rude and generalized, and so yes, I am trying to backpedal from them somewhat. I'm not trying to do it to be evasive, though, or to unfairly re-frame the argument. Just trying to be a decent human being.

You definitely are a decent guy - thanks for being reasonable. I'm glad when you are active on the forum.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
BlackBlade: Provo is just a side note, a place I've noticed some particularly weird stuff happening. (like this story, for example) I'll write a longer and more detailed post about it after I fly home tomorrow night.

I will say that, as a straight white* Mormon male, I doubt you'll notice poor quality of life in Utah, because the culture there is literally set up to cater to you. Much like, as a straight white male NCO, I'm not likely to experience much sexism or bigotry in the Marines. Which isn't to question your powers of observation or suggest you purposely turn a blind eye, but you do have to actively look for the oppression, because it's also the nature of the system to hide it from you.

Hopefully you don't take this the wrong way and assume I'm being condescending or dismissive, because I respect the hell out of you. But a good thought experiment is to think about what it might be like to, say, be a gay teenager in Utah. Or an atheist. Or a woman. Then I recommend looking up some stories from a member of each of those groups in Utah. And consider how their experience differs from other states - both in the way they're treated individually, and in overall statistics. (The statistics part is important because there are jerkass parents who abandon their children everywhere, there are bullies who target gays everywhere. You needs statistics to show you how much worse it is in Utah)

The stories help show just how twisted the psychology is. I'll re-post a story Sam shared in another thread: http://newyorkerinutah.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/another-byu-modesty-note-the-toxicity-of-shame-in-lds-culture/comment-page-3/

It's about a woman at BYU who was leered at after wearing a perfectly modest shirt, then criticized for wearing it and causing men around her to lose control of themselves. What's really appalling is the comments section, where she gets pretty harshly attacked and condemned by numerous Mormon men. (and some women) Some attacked her calling her a slut, attention whore, etc. Some said, being a woman, it's her responsibility to keep men mentally pure. Some just attacked her for writing at all. (putting a "black mark" on the Church) And there's a lot of funky pseudo-science going on too. (which again, makes me wonder what kind of weird crap is being taught at BYU...) There's also a heartbreaking comment from a young women who was sexually assaulted on campus, and then told the assault was her fault for dressing provocatively.

This is one link out of several hundred I could send you too, each with it's own little horror story from Provo, or Utah in general. Some of these stories are from friends of mine, people who managed to get away. Other from kids I worked with. One from a man who didn't get away, and openly brags about murdering people in Iraq. He goes to church every Sunday and is quite active in the LDS community. (Luckily, he moved back to Utah 2 years ago, so I don't have see him any more)

But, all of this is out there if you're willing to see it.

*I'm not positive of your ethnicity, so this is an assumption. (though I'm pretty sure you've referred to yourself as white before) If you're actually Black or Asian or something, feel free to whack me upside the head.

[ August 01, 2014, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: Dogbreath ]
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
I will say that, as a straight white Mormon male, I doubt you'll notice poor quality of life in Utah, because the culture there is literally set up to cater to you.
You need to stop right there. I'm not trying to be aggressive, but you do. Flip that around, would you say to me, that if I was a minority, that I would be unable to see anything but negativity because I'm not in the majority demographic? When you tell me, "You're this, so you must also be this." That's a stereotype dude. Don't call me blind because I'm a white Mormon male. Call me blind if I exhibited symptoms consistent with being blind.

Literally the only thing I have in common with people in Provo, is we heard the same things at church on Sunday. You would probably be unable to find a place more different from Provo than Hong Kong.

quote:
Which isn't to question your powers of observation or suggest you purposely turn a blind eye, but you do have to actively look for the oppression
I just read this. No, you don't. It's all around you, you can easily notice it. A Hawaiian girl I dated broke my heart talking about being brown in Utah. My friends KarlEd and Phoenix from this board came to Utah with almost nothing in desperation, and integrated into the gay community up in Salt Lake City. I've lost friends, been castigated by my family, for pointing out what I was seeing. I've seen the stupidity in much of modesty culture.

Am I omniscient? No. Do I get I still have privilege? Sure do. I'm also in Hong Kong again and back to being a minority.

But I lived in Provo too, and I saw people devoid of any guile. People who impressed the hell out of me. People who would do anything for you if you were down and out. Is Provo as cosmopolitan and international as some other locations. No! But it's as I said, not extraordinarily different from thousands of American cities.

It has some things that are unusually problematic compared to other places. But on the balance, the idea it's some horrible place is not something I can get behind.

I respect you so much too Dogbreath. No buts about it.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Also, this video is a bit thick on the "OMG Utah is a conservative state, how can they do nice things for people?!" but Exhibit A for how Utah isn't full of jerks.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
You misunderstand me. By "notice" I mean "experience". As in, when you lived there, you weren't subjected to it, so you don't have the same impression of it. So when you say things like "I didn't notice a difference in quality of life", well, of course you didn't. It's set up so you wouldn't. I already specifically defind this and said I wasn't calling you blind.

quote:
A Hawaiian girl I dated broke my heart talking about being brown in Utah.
A Hawaiian woman I'm friends with who is a former Mormon told me horror stories about attending BYU in Provo. (We have a campus here, too) Like, she cringes any time someone asks her where she attended college and will usually say "Utah", then "Provo", before finally saying BYU when pressed. She despises it that much. I wonder what the chances are we know the same woman?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Probably not super high. We were at UVU when we knew each other.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
You misunderstand me. By "notice" I mean "experience". As in, when you lived there, you weren't subjected to it.
Um, yes I was. Almost from the moment I started living there in fact. For me it was, "You're not really American because you didn't grow up here." and "Hey, why aren't you at church every week, you must be spiritually weak."

Did I have cops stopping me because I was driving while brown? No. But I do know what it's like to be the only progressive in a room full of fire brand conservatives. the idea that just being a white male means you don't know what it's like for other demographics is pretty presumptive. I've been a minority the majority of my life. Where people think because you're white you must be rich, so they can swindle you. Where people talk about you in another language with you standing right there because white people don't speak Chinese. I'm not pretending my appearance has not afforded me special treatment.

But I don't have to get a waiver signed for checking my privilege either.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
You keep reading way too much into what I'm saying here. I never said you haven't experienced prejudice, or that you haven't seen it. Heck, as a white man living in Hawaii I experience racism on a daily basis. I'm saying, specific to your comment that you didn't notice a difference in your quality of life in Utah, that of course you didn't, because the culture in Utah is set up to mostly benefit white Mormon men. You seem to realize this too, but somehow think this is an insult when I point it out. It's not. I get treated well whenever I visit Utah, too. So, if Utah seens analogous to, say, Colorado for you, it probably *is*. For you. For, say a gay minority teenager, Colorado and Utah seem like different worlds, the quality of life is so different.

To the extent you have experienced bigotry, doesn't that confirm my point? About that strange fear of outsiders you experience in Utah?

This entire debate is why I feel justified in saying stories like this are not surprising coming from Utah. And the response so far seems to be "yeah, Utah really is a messed up state, but you're not allowed to say it." I fail to see where we really disagree, other than a sort of knee-jerk, circle the wagons mentality. It baffles me, honestly.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
It sounds to me like the only difference between Provo and most other U.S. cities is that instead of being set-up to favor white Mormon men, the rest are set-up to favor white men of some other Christian religion.

Homophobia is everywhere. Utah does not have a monopoly on it, they just seem to be slightly more vocal about it.

I'm from the south so I see plenty of racism. I could be wrong but I doubt Provo can hold a candle to the mountains of Virginia.

But then Utah is one of the only states I have never visited. One of these days I'm going to have to experience this alien land for myself.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
You keep reading way too much into what I'm saying here. I never said you haven't experienced prejudice, or that you haven't seen it. Heck, as a white man living in Hawaii I experience racism on a daily basis. I'm saying, specific to your comment that you didn't notice a difference in your quality of life in Utah, that of course you didn't, because the culture in Utah is set up to mostly benefit white Mormon men. You seem to realize this too, but somehow think this is an insult when I point it out. It's not. I get treated well whenever I visit Utah, too. So, if Utah seens analogous to, say, Colorado for you, it probably *is*. For you. For, say a gay minority teenager, Colorado and Utah seem like different worlds, the quality of life is so different.

To the extent you have experienced bigotry, doesn't that confirm my point? About that strange fear of outsiders you experience in Utah?

This entire debate is why I feel justified in saying stories like this are not surprising coming from Utah. And the response so far seems to be "yeah, Utah really is a messed up state, but you're not allowed to say it." I fail to see where we really disagree, other than a sort of knee-jerk, circle the wagons mentality. It baffles me, honestly.

If the goal of this discussion is simply to establish that Utah is one seriously effed up state and to have that fact acknowledged without qualification, then I can see why it's been so frustrating to you. You've offered a couple of solid stats and a bunch of anecdotes while hinting that you could offer hundreds more. But you don't seem to want anyone to offer any counterexamples, even if they acknowledge that the problems your stats represent are real. You're effectively invalidating anyone's voice unless they happen to be minority, have experienced bad things growing up in the state, or have fled because they don't like the people there for any number of reasons. When anyone argues, you accuse them of being blind to what's really going on. I'm not saying any of these things don't exist or aren't worthy of addressing seriously. But you're trying to posit an environment that's suited to your views and experiences only, and that's why you keep getting pushback.

Basically, you're showing that you can't see past your own viewpoint any better than you're claiming a straight white male with a favorable opinion of Utah can.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
No, I'm really, really not trying to invalidate anyone's voice at all. I feel like I'm turning into a broken record here, and no matter how many times I repeat that point it's not understood. I think everyone has an equal voice, and everyone's opinion matters.

Literally all I've been saying is, if you don't experience oppression while living in a system that is set up to not oppress, but indeed, benefit you, it doesn't mean that oppression doesn't exist.

For example, I can honestly say I've never seriously been a victim of sexism in the military. That is true, it's valid, my voice is a valid thing, and my experience is a valid part of the overall picture.

Now let's say we're having an argument about sexism and the military, and you provide links to several studies, statistics, and anecdotes about sexism in the military and argue they demonstrate there's a serious problem with the culture and institutions that comprise it, and as a rebuttle I respond "I haven't experienced any more sexism in the military than anywhere else." That would be a true and accurate and valid experience, but it wouldn't be very useful for establishing whether or not sexism actually happens, since I'm part of the group unaffected by it.

So I'm rather inclined to believe the statistics that show that Utah has double the percentage of homeless gay youth, or stories of women who get raped at BYU and told it's their fault, and believe they're a better indication of how minorities and women are treated. If I wanted an accurate picture of how straight white Mormon men are treated in Utah are treated, then obviously statistics and anecdotes from straight white Mormon men would be the most useful. What I absolutely deny is that anecdotes from the group set up to benefit from oppression are somehow more valid than or equally valid to those of the group being oppressed, when we're talking about oppression, the existence thereof, and the extent to which it happens. I absolutely deny that sort of false equivilence, because it's just flat out illogical and immoral.

It's like a caseworker going to a family where there's been allegations of child abuse, corroborated by bruises, stories, etc. But then asking the parents if there's abuse happening, and they say "well, we haven't been abused, so obviously not!" and somehow accepting that as proof that abuse never occured. It's not the parents who were the victims in the first place.

I don't know how to possibly explain it in clearer terms. I can say the continued misunderstanding of it is pretty saddening to me, but I also realize it's a big hurdle to overcome.

I'll also note that that I never denied there are plenty of good, decent, wholesome people in Utah. But as a rather extreme counterexample, there are plenty of good, decent, wholesome people in Afghanistan. I know many of them, and anecdotally I can even say they are the majority. But it's also a country with social and cultural issues several orders of magnitude worse than Utah, or the USA in general, and not a place I recommend moving. Especially if you're not male, Muslim, and straight.

As a less extreme counterexample, I'm writing this in Los Angeles, a single city with far more oppression, racism, homelessness, illiteracy, gang violence, and ignorance than the entire State of Utah. I'm soon going to be flying back home to Hawaii, a state that has severe corruption issues, as well as many cultural problems, including racism, classism, and xenophobia on a scale that sometimes leads to violence.

Utah is much worse than the United States as a whole when it comes to certain issues, like homophobia, sexism, racism, and child abuse. It's also much better than the US as a whole when it comes to literacy, gang warfare, drunk driving, and several other issues. It's a tossup, and if you're the sort of person who can benefit from living in that culture, then of course you'll enjoy it and more power to you, I guess.

OTOH, as usual, my attempts to address the real and actual problems experienced in Utah has been exaggerated into a hyperbole of me trying to prove Utah is somehow hell on Earth. Seriously, read through this thread and look at what I've actually said, and how it's been parroted back in almost unrecognizable terms. This is the sort of knee-jerk defense I'm talking about, which I haven't really seen from any other group. (Except possibly Texans)
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Well, if you'd unpacked it in your first post like you did in this one, I for one would have responded much differently. I know my defense was knee-jerk as well. I hear so many people say something like you did as soon as they hear the name "Utah." They might have legitimate strong feelings and bad experiences with the place, or they're just using it as the example of everything that's wrong with the world because hey, Mormon tea bagger red state, but all that comes out is that one piece of snark.

The whole time I lived there I never felt like Utah was perfect and problem free. Just the opposite, in fact: the divides there are sharper than in any other place I've been, the gulfs deeper, and the animus being hurled back and forth over the no man's lands more incendiary and harmful. People do tend to huddle together in like-minded communities where things going wrong can be ignored until they get too big to ignore anymore. The LDS church has a huge presence in this, because it's where the biggest divides are, and those divides go all the way back to the beginning of settlement in the state. The church gets used as justification and leverage _all the time_ by everyone for or against it. It really feels like living on the front lines of a war zone there. For a boy who grew up in Minnesota and was the token Mormon at school, it was eye-opening to move to Utah where my beliefs were being constantly questioned and ridiculed, at the same time that they were being actively affirmed. While that's what's unique about the state, or at least the Wasatch Front that I am familiar with, there is also the complex mix of good and bad that exists in every area regardless of its particular demographics.

There's a strong inclination, especially in previously sleepy towns like Provo, Orem, Lehi, etc., to not want to see ugliness, to treat it like it doesn't exist, and that's a big problem. People with that mindset really can ignore things happening right in front of them and deny the severity of what's going on, especially if it can't be fixed with a casserole and regular home teaching visits. But it highlights the fact that there's a ton of waking up to do, and the work's cut out for us in addressing a lot of damage that's happening to people who should never have to feel like outcasts.

People like me, white, straight, and male, on the privileged end of the spectrum both in places like Utah and just about anywhere else, obviously can't fathom what others are going through, often because of the ignorance and thoughtlessness of people like me. I have an enormous responsibility to change how I view and treat others, and it's good to have it in front of my face. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set. That blend of misconceptions and generalizations tends to create a defensive posture instead of the awareness and cooperation you might ultimately be driving for. I'm not shying away from the problems or the discussion, but I also feel bound to correct claims that are simply not true.
 
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
 
quote:
It sounds to me like the only difference between Provo and most other U.S. cities is that instead of being set-up to favor white Mormon men, the rest are set-up to favor white men of some other Christian religion.
It's a bit more than that. In most other place I've been the white men thing stands, but diversity of philosophy and opinion is a lot less... risky? As a progressive, non-Mormon, white male, I mostly feel OK because the only visible parts are the privileged parts but I do experience a sense of otherness and always have. I sometimes forget it and usually don't need to be concerned about it, but it's always there. When I visit somewhere more metropolitan - San Francisco, San Diego, even Salt Lake City - there is an almost tangible sensation of that washing away and I am no longer an "other" even though I may be hundreds of miles from the home I've lived in for almost 20 years.

That's really a separate issue though from whether Provo is a bad place or people in Provo are somehow worse than elsewhere. By whatever metric you may want to judge it by though, I believe it is improving. I was at the Provo High prom a couple years ago and there were two same-sex couples which were announced with no fanfare (well the same fanfare as everyone else). There is a Provo Pride festival coming up next month and the announcement on the Provo Facebook groups was met with only positive comments and "likes". There are liberals and feminists, and they are definitely a minority voice, but they are become less afraid of sharing their views.

BYU also is not Provo. Most people who attend BYU are not Provo residents. It's a private church property *in* Provo, so if you wish to expand criticism for the product of BYU beyond the campus it should probably be assigned to the LDS church and not the campus' parent municipality.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Well, if you'd unpacked it in your first post like you did in this one, I for one would have responded much differently.

That's my fault, and I apologize for it. I have a tendency to be too brusque and forward, and it's something I need to work on.

quote:
I know my defense was knee-jerk as well. I hear so many people say something like you did as soon as they hear the name "Utah." They might have legitimate strong feelings and bad experiences with the place, or they're just using it as the example of everything that's wrong with the world because hey, Mormon tea bagger red state, but all that comes out is that one piece of snark.

The whole time I lived there I never felt like Utah was perfect and problem free. Just the opposite, in fact: the divides there are sharper than in any other place I've been, the gulfs deeper, and the animus being hurled back and forth over the no man's lands more incendiary and harmful. People do tend to huddle together in like-minded communities where things going wrong can be ignored until they get too big to ignore anymore. The LDS church has a huge presence in this, because it's where the biggest divides are, and those divides go all the way back to the beginning of settlement in the state. The church gets used as justification and leverage _all the time_ by everyone for or against it. It really feels like living on the front lines of a war zone there. For a boy who grew up in Minnesota and was the token Mormon at school, it was eye-opening to move to Utah where my beliefs were being constantly questioned and ridiculed, at the same time that they were being actively affirmed. While that's what's unique about the state, or at least the Wasatch Front that I am familiar with, there is also the complex mix of good and bad that exists in every area regardless of its particular demographics.

There's a strong inclination, especially in previously sleepy towns like Provo, Orem, Lehi, etc., to not want to see ugliness, to treat it like it doesn't exist, and that's a big problem. People with that mindset really can ignore things happening right in front of them and deny the severity of what's going on, especially if it can't be fixed with a casserole and regular home teaching visits. But it highlights the fact that there's a ton of waking up to do, and the work's cut out for us in addressing a lot of damage that's happening to people who should never have to feel like outcasts.

People like me, white, straight, and male, on the privileged end of the spectrum both in places like Utah and just about anywhere else, obviously can't fathom what others are going through, often because of the ignorance and thoughtlessness of people like me. I have an enormous responsibility to change how I view and treat others, and it's good to have it in front of my face. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set. That blend of misconceptions and generalizations tends to create a defensive posture instead of the awareness and cooperation you might ultimately be driving for. I'm not shying away from the problems or the discussion, but I also feel bound to correct claims that are simply not true.

So, coming from a rather liberal, pacifist group of friends in college, joining the military was an incredibly difficult thing to do. Even though I had been planning it for years, and had some very good, well thought out reasons for it, I ran into an incredible amount of opposition. Often, my well meaning friends wouldn't even let me start explaining before bombarding me with everything they had, not realizing I had heard it all before, or that I was quite aware of all the things they were "informing" me of, thank you very much. Sometimes it would be 8 or 10 of them, and always just one of me.

There was a while where I was so sick of it I would just shut someone down without even listening, because I just wanted to talk about anything else.

All that is to say, I completely understand the "warzone" mentality, and wanted to let you know I read this post and respect it and you.

MattP: That's a good point. Most outsiders (Mormon or otherwise) conflate the town with the university. I'll make sure to avoid making that mistake in the future.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
ALL ANGER OF MARGINALIZED PEOPEL IS JUSTIFIED. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. WHITE ALLY STATUS REVOKED
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
ALL ANGER OF MARGINALIZED PEOPEL IS JUSTIFIED. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. WHITE ALLY STATUS REVOKED
Thanks for jumping in.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
On a more serious note:

quote:
I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
This is something that was never said, nor even implied. I think you and BlackBlade both took what I said (which was actually set in a very specific context, as a reply to a comment he made) and ran all over the place with it, extrapolating all sorts of meanings and implications that simply aren't there. Even after I repeatedly clarified and reexplained it. Seriously, go back and read it again.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
This is something that was never said, nor even implied.
You said something inflammatory and then went in another direction, and I pounced because I tend to respond to posts in chunks as I read them.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
ALL ANGER OF MARGINALIZED PEOPEL IS JUSTIFIED. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. WHITE ALLY STATUS REVOKED
Thanks for jumping in.
You're welcome, Utahn
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
This is something that was never said, nor even implied.
You said something inflammatory and then went in another direction, and I pounced because I tend to respond to posts in chunks as I read them.
I'm now somewhat lost as far as what you're referring to. But as far as afr's comment, again, that was never said nor implied. It went from a "your experience may not be the same as everyone else's", to you and afr inferring "therefore your experiences and opinions are invalid." Which is a pretty illogical jump, especially coming from me. (I.e, if your opinion is invalid, then logically mine is even more so, since I've personally experienced no bigotry in Utah. Obviously that wasn't what I was going for)
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
ALL ANGER OF MARGINALIZED PEOPEL IS JUSTIFIED. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. WHITE ALLY STATUS REVOKED
Thanks for jumping in.
You're welcome, Utahn
Your broad brush actually is quite soft. And I like what it does to my hair. Who knew?
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
This is something that was never said, nor even implied.
You said something inflammatory and then went in another direction, and I pounced because I tend to respond to posts in chunks as I read them.
I'm now somewhat lost as far as what you're referring to. But as far as afr's comment, again, that was never said nor implied. It went from a "your experience may not be the same as everyone else's", to you and afr inferring "therefore your experiences and opinions are invalid." Which is a pretty illogical jump, especially coming from me. (I.e, if your opinion is invalid, then logically mine is even more so, since I've personally experienced no bigotry in Utah. Obviously that wasn't what I was going for)
I was more summing up what I felt was a major point in our exchange: the pitfalls of saying anything in Utah's defense. As if by saying there's lots of good in Utah, too, because of who I am I must be blind to all the bad, or worse, covering it up. Throughout this whole exchange I've been trying to speak to the point that if you want to have a productive discussion with the people present with knowledge and opinions on the subject, you have to make the discussion one they can and want to participate productively in. I felt you recognized that admirably through the course of the exchange. I wasn't trying to hold it over your head, and I apologize for making you feel that I was.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
The thread title is getting a little extreme now. We should probably change the subject before it completes it's mutation.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Let's try something completely neutral and uncontroversial, like, say, fat people. (The Fat Acceptance Movement in particular)
 
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
 
Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Utah! Utah Utah Utah... Utah. Utah? (Utah)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
. I guess what I react to is that blanket condemnation that renders anything I say worse than useless and assumes I'm hopeless because I'm part of the oppressive set.
ALL ANGER OF MARGINALIZED PEOPEL IS JUSTIFIED. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. WHITE ALLY STATUS REVOKED
Thanks for jumping in.
You're welcome, Utahn
Your broad brush actually is quite soft. And I like what it does to my hair. Who knew?
just like a utahn to roll with the punches, utahn
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by narrativium:
Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah Utah?

buffalo buffalo buffalo
 
Posted by RivalOfTheRose (Member # 11535) on :
 
Buffalo chicken wrap
 
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
 
Not the buffalo Hatrack deserves, but the one that it needs.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
You merely adopted Utah. I was born in it. Molded by it.
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
Ask not what your buffalo can do for Hatrack, but for what Hatrack can do for your buffalo. I'm thinking grazing rights at a bare minimum.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
You merely adopted Utah. I was born in it. Molded by it.

lol
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Well, if you'd unpacked it in your first post like you did in this one, I for one would have responded much differently.

That's my fault, and I apologize for it. I have a tendency to be too brusque and forward, and it's something I need to work on.

If it helps, I understood what you were writing the first time you wrote it.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
You merely adopted Utah. I was born in it. Molded by it.

Like Jello?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i ain't never gon eat Bane flavored jello

but at least we know what that mask is supplying him with
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMPZ7WeDck
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
If you're tired of Utah, I give you Texas and possibly the greatest news story ever. Possibly NSFW.

http://deadspin.com/the-story-behind-those-jerry-jones-photos-is-weirder-th-1616389511
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
that's like if Hiking The Appalachian Trail guy was scooped by Timecube
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
From his manifesto, this sounds like something you would write samp:

I AM THE SON

God gave me these photos and I was given a choice. I could sell them and ruin your life in the media, make millions and tell my story or I could hold them in secret and suffer until I reached you. So, I gave my own life to save yours. It’s a bold statement and the next statement is even bolder. It may scare you, but you have to believe in who I am. I know this because I am the Son of God and he sent me to you. Jerry, you and the Cowboys are the Star we will use to Light My Path. I spent 5 years suffering, losing all my possessions, giving the rest away to charity and then living poor. I almost lost my mind until God revealed my true identity. On 7/11/12, 7 days after the God Particle was found in France, I was awoken by God and told to find you, Mr. Jones, to let the world know that God’s Son has risen. My name is Frank Hoover and I am the Son of God. The pictures and other information I provide to you as proof of who I am and why I am here on earth. I am the way, the truth and Jerry, you are my light. I have been sent by God to fix the problems created during the years leading up to my birth. The removal of Gold as the primary backing source of value of the US Dollar. There were three gifts in the bible: Gold, Frank (incense) and Myrrh. The person responsible for your crime is named 24K and born on 8/8/78 (888).
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
And he has a youtube channel full of crazy too. I haven't been this entertained in weeks. Is it bad of me to derive so much joy from someone's insanity?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnHTrTaBDs5mZpP3bCnYjrg

I had never heard of timecube so I had to google it. Wikipedia provided this fantastic quote:

John C. Dvorak wrote in PC Magazine that "Metasites that track crackpot sites often say this is the number one nutty site."

[ August 05, 2014, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Wingracer ]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
have i typically written like an untreated schizophrenic from a religious household
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
have i typically written like an untreated schizophrenic from a religious household

Not when being serious but some of your jokes sound a lot like that [Big Grin]

Also reminds me of reticulum.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
If you're tired of Utah, I give you Texas and possibly the greatest news story ever. Possibly NSFW.

http://deadspin.com/the-story-behind-those-jerry-jones-photos-is-weirder-th-1616389511

Well it's Texas, what do you expect?

(Just kidding [Smile] )
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
Not when being serious but some of your jokes sound a lot like that [Big Grin]

knock knock

who's there

salmon

salmon who

educators are actually "evil word gods", teaching commercial plunder of Nature. Are you too dumb to know there are 4 different simultaneous 24 hour days within a single rotation of Earth? Greenwich 1 day is a lie. 4 quadrants = 4 corners, and 4 different directions. Each Earth corner rotates own separate 24 hour day. Infinite days is stupidity.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
have i typically written like an untreated schizophrenic from a religious household

You seem to have forgotten the concept of capital letters and punctuation.
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
[QUOTE]Well it's Texas, what do you expect?

(Just kidding [Smile] )

A level of insanity and drug fueled wackiness slightly lower than what I find here in Florida. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
You merely adopted Utah. I was born in it. Molded by it.

Like Jello?
Green Jello
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
With carrot shavings.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Jello is a book in the book of mormon right
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
like can i quote I Jello 22:13
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Ha, shows how much you know. 1 Jello only goes up to chapter 20.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
With carrot shavings.

So, um, during the family day (the day before graduation) at boot camp, a local ward in San Diego threw a big pot-luck dinner for all the recruits at MCRD. They have a pretty big presence there because it's literally where all the recruits from the western US get processed (my 62 man platoon had 11 Mormons in it), but they invited my entire platoon to come, not just the Mormons. It was pretty awesome, being our first taste of real homemade food in 3 months.

Anyway, there were, I kid you not, 3 different jello dishes. All green. All with carrot shavings. Some had other little things in them (one had those weird little colored marshmallows), but the basics were the same.

None of us were sure if we should eat it, or if it was some sort of sacred food, to only be consumed in Dark Mormon Rituals. I have since heard vague references to "the jello" in Mormon circles, I assume this is one of the many mysteries the Church has successfully kept hidden from prying Gentile eyes.

Seriously, though, what's up with the jello?
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
...

(He's onto us)
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Some of us inside the circle don't understand what's up with jello. I blame the oppressive Utah desert sun.
 
Posted by vegimo (Member # 12618) on :
 
In adopting and making Jell-O “their” food, Mormons (or Lutherans or Methodists) are making a statement about their identity, accepting all of the food’s positive connotations of family-friendliness, child-centeredness, and domesticity. Outsiders, in contrast, often look in and see Jell-O as a mark of a lack of taste that renders this group strange, immature, and ultimately mockable.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
I am a single, non Mormon, (or Lutheran or Methodist) woman who likes Jello enough to make it for herself. I don't know what that means but it is a little troubling.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
It's a potluck dish. I'm not defending jello dishes in any way, especially the ones with horrid crunchy veggies suspended inside. Nasty. But it's a people feeder, same as a casserole. You come to a potluck and you bring a dish that's enough for the equivalent of your family. Jello's easy to make and at the same time shows you thought ahead instead of buying rolls at Albertson's on your way to the meal. That said, I think teh jello is also a dying art. What's fashionable at trendy Mormon potlucks these days is fruit salad sans jello.
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
What should be trendy at potlucks are Thai, Indian, and Japanese curries.

I'd also except neo-curries as there's plenty of room in the medium for experimentation.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Homemade curries are a risky proposition, though.

In my recent Mormon gathering experience (mostly family), there's been a decrease in Jello and casseroles and an increase in fresh fruits and vegetables, cheese and charcuterie. There was a temporary fad involving a salad with romaine lettuce, crunchy ramen, chicken, and sesame flavored dressing, but I think it's mostly over.
 
Posted by stilesbn (Member # 11809) on :
 
Personally I think it's an artifact of the culture that has stuck around so long solely because people make fun of it.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Homemade curries are a risky proposition, though.

No risk, no reward. Plus, it's potluck. So risk is spread across households. It's quite a diverse portfolio when you think about it.

I'm going to die doing all this finance homework.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
We used to do a really good broccoli salad with bacon and a tangy dressing. But even that got old after a while. Currently, with little girls and no time to cook anything elaborate, we're the quick green salad or rolls from Albertson's family.

I wouldn't mind some more curry dishes at potlucks, especially if there's a way to keep them warm in a crockpot the whole time. A good dish would make you a superstar on the potluck circuit. Mostly, though, it's best to bring something that tastes ok at room temperature while not imparting salmonella poisoning within the first half an hour or so.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Homemade curries are a risky proposition, though.

No risk, no reward. Plus, it's potluck. So risk is spread across households. It's quite a diverse portfolio when you think about it.

I'm going to die doing all this finance homework.

LOL
Had to reread that.
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
We had a chili cookoff recently, and I thought it was a smashing success. But yeah keeping things warm is definitely a challenge.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
You should do German potato salad. It is good all the way from hot to just slightly above room temperature.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I am an unironic fan of all those potlucky-1950's-style-processed-food-abominations that very much so feel like a product of the era

you know, like:

"broiled grapefruit, Jell-O molds, cheese-filled celery stalks, deviled eggs and pimiento-stuffed olives -- arranged in patterns, placed on tiered servers, layered to improbable heights or speared with frilly toothpicks. Move on to the main course with more purely '50s fare, like chicken divan, tuna casserole, Swedish meatballs or pineapple-Spam kabobs. Dip pieces of pound cake and fruit into chocolate fondue for dessert, or serve up slices of a mile-high chiffon cake."
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
You basically just described the cover of every cookbook I inherited. You have to imagine the low-contrast oranges and ambers and greens that used to pass for color printing.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
You basically just described the cover of every cookbook I inherited. You have to imagine the low-contrast oranges and ambers and greens that used to pass for color printing.

http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/food-ads-1950s
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
Apparently jello was brought to us by our fairy friends some time in 1910

Link.
 
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
quote:
http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/food-ads-1950s
Nothing perks up apple juice like a heaping helping of table salt.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
You basically just described the cover of every cookbook I inherited. You have to imagine the low-contrast oranges and ambers and greens that used to pass for color printing.

http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/food-ads-1950s
That one with all the burgers about 5 rows down: "Day of the Zombie Chuck."
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Oh lord, I think I got a touch of diabeetus just looking at those pictures...
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
http://imgur.com/gallery/zKTm2
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
When I liberate this world and found The Glorious People's Republic of Samprimarystan, the first counterrevolutionaries to be executed will be the ones who leave the packaging plastic on their phones and appliances and crap. It literally makes no sense and is hella dumb so Central People's Satisfaction Police will not let it stand.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
Are you talking about the clear film that comes stuck on screens and shiny surfaces? If so, my theory is that people think their stuff will stay nice for longer.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ZM0-f5_CU
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Are you talking about the clear film that comes stuck on screens and shiny surfaces? If so, my theory is that people think their stuff will stay nice for longer.

And in like two or three days the plastic covering is all bubbly and hideously ugly, guaranteed

So they're basically guaranteeing it looks uglier faster, paradoxically by being ocd about potential cosmetic damage
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
people should post more
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
More.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I can get some of my brother-in-law's Chiropractic buddies to come post about the problems with medical sciences, corporations, and government. You might learn a thing or two.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
OK....OK...ehem...EHEM....Jeezus, I'm choking on my own enthusiasm here Samperoonie, but did I tell you the one about the tapeworm? Well...it's like...let me get this straight...it's like...Well...it's like complex. Yes. Complex. Multi-segmented, a real little egg-layer, not to be mistaken either for an onion ring (the worm, that is) or a story (the joke, that is). There are tarts in it too (worm and story). It neverends very very badly. So
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
one night,
No!
one late afternoon...
it was indefinitely afternoon...dusky...
elegiac even...
lure call of angels, etc.(manifest as a little scratching sound)
when
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
samperoonie
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
You just can't believe that someone here sussed out your real name.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Or at least what his Mommy calls him.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
When? Evening.
Where? Nowhere--"Without No"--(that is).
So?
The Blair-meister made an appointment with his doctor, hung up the phone and walked toward the fridge, stalked by his anonymous cat.
"Something's wrong with me," he sung in a Dylanesque nasal whine, pulling out some leftovers.
Cold Kraft Dinner (Classic)welded into the bottom of an aluminum pot.
The so-called cat struggled mindlessly with sparks of self-consciousness.
Blair reached for the old universal kitchen knife with a mind to prying some KD off the bottom of the pot.
The tapeworm stretched out in a fold of Blair's little intestine
and afixed his little fang there
in anticipation.
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Or at least what his Mommy calls him.

Or that deerpark is his mother.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
That would be the biggest plot twist ever on Hatrack.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
(Note: A movement in his bowels fatally foreshadowing a movement of his bowels that would later set a world in motion.)
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Holding the pot handle in his left hand, old Blairsky pushed that pot right into his stomach
supporting it on his Screamin' Eagle belt buckle
(with a little tightening of the stomach muscles).
With his right hand,
well,
with the blade aimed right at his tummy,
he wedged the tip underneath the edge of that congealed KD,
you know, such that the geometry of tensions and compressions
(in this garden of forking paths)
well,
pushing and prying
you know,
blade bending while the congealed noodle mass lifts just enough to tantalize the Archimedean inevitablity of the thing,
well,
something was gonna give,
life being a mystery
to him.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Or an unsprung universe,
as it were...
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
As I was saying:
knife jammed into pot,
B. prying with all his considerable might because,
like an eczema scab you're not supposed to pick at,
the KD begins to perceptibly lift off and
of course--
Sproing!
He's stabbed himself in the stomach.
Ouch.
The pot clatters down,
the so-called cat scampers back a foot or two,
the worm churns,
the myriad of little calico bugs in the first blood drop to hit the linoleum floor
assume their Brownian dance formation,
B. reaches an arm out and "Ker-bang!"
fails to break his fall.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
His short fall onto his hard little knees.

One can never tell with worms, but a shiver of apprehension coursed through the symbiotically intertwined system.

The so-called cat assumed a crouch.

Plop-plop-plop.
Calico.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Footnote #1: I have an hypothesis. There is a personal hygiene conspiracy afoot. Let's say you smell pretty bad, so you take a shower and wash with a bar of Irish Spring....then you walk naked into your room and grab your trusty Mennen Speed Stick and lay a few greasy licks into the warm nests of your armpits. You sniff check and you're ready to go, right? (Well, there's the clothes part, but you know what I mean).
Oh no no no. There's some chemical reaction going on between the product and your future sweat (and maybe even between the competing brands of soap and deodorant) that now begins to manufacture the stench you're trying to protect against. Sure, you'll get an hour or so of a chemical 'Sea Breeze' wafting up -- but soon a bloated dead seal washes up on that windless beach, under a supernaturally hot sun, eyeballs pecked out by gulls...they probably used stem cells to genetically engineer the nauseating olfactory effect...and the next thing you know you're slathering more greasy dollops into the putrid, nose wrinkling nests...I'd like to think that this wasn't the last thought that passed through Blair's head, and it wasn't.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
God. I hate these boxes.
It doesn't matter.
So,
If only sound waves could travel through space,
then somewhere someone would understand that all these crickets on a late August night are joined in one sublime incomprehensible chorus singing the song of the world.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
I feel I should add that this phenomenon,
the continuity of cricket chirping,,
has been backed up by recent empirical research
using a green Pinto station wagon
with the windows rolled down
driving through late summer fields
by way of secondary roads;
for miles and miles an miles
and over days and days
the aural soundscape is filled
with the pulsating crinkle and whir
of the cricket
(on the hearth of the world!).
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
And it turns out those crickets are smiling,
the evening smile of the sphinx (as Brian told me).

Footnote #2:
It sems that mirus (‘wonderful’, ‘marvelous’), the root of the miror in that mirror of admirration, is itself rooted in the IE smeiros, from smei-: to smile (a laughing smile).
The mirror just is the admirring smile.
The stelic smile of the kouros (‘The simplest of all solutions to the riddle of the archaic smile: he smiles because he’s happy’).
The evening smile of the sphinx, Atum, god of the evening.
And the home-aching smile of comedy; which, even before this last thing fell into place (or rather no place), I realized that I valued (and why I valued it) more than tragedy (way back on p. 9).
 
Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :
 
A gentleman thief was planning to steal the most expensive and rediculous items of the fall collection. However, the gendarmes had caught wind of his plan and set up a trap to catch the elusive crook. While donning his wetsuit, needed for his plan to case the targeted studio, the criminal was caught with his pants down.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Right. But so what?

Let's get on with it.

Crickets aside,
archaic smiles flashed into oblivion,
the funny part:

So,

Crawling over to the phone, entrails caught on the head of a nail and spooling out like a garden hose over the kitchen floor,

No.

Where's my lemon tart?

No.

"Where's my Cherry...," Ta-Wham! and the Doctor creams the worm with an incredible blow from his Eastwing roofing hammer, viscera spattering all over the floor and walls of the little examination room,

...grabbing the worm by its dead-duck neck and pulling all 10 feet of it out of Blair's guts to the accompaniment of an astounding, sphincter loosening, eye-watering blast of flatulence, which overpowers the lingering aroma of cherries...

The doctor recoils violently, failing to conceal his incredulity. Blair whimpers and becomes acutely aware his testicles have migrated across the land bridge to Alaska in fulfillment of a typological prophecy, the impregnation of the inscrutable native islanders who otherwise are happy bobbing about on their little kayaks.

The hammer drops to the floor with a persuasive thud.

The doctor peels off one of his little rubber gloves, wipes a globule of spatter from his cheek, and tosses the gloves towards the garbage pail.

"Merde!"
 
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
Reel it in,

Then Real it in.

Come back to those moments of now...
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Adrift in this wide Sargasso sea with the mindless swells lapping at my toes.

The visual narrative of the average Ice Bucket Challenge video compared with that of the ISIS beheading. What's the same? What's different?

Blair sits up on the examination table and turns the stirrups back in by force of habit. The sea is full of weeds. They are on their knees and waiting. He just wants to get dressed and go home. The water is too warm and full of jellyfish. He stands up and reaches for his pants hanging on the back of the door. The heart races and the ice-water slashes at the external carotid artery, a grimace then a smile filling with pulses of salt water.

Reaching the phone he phones, with a grimace.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"Rick Perry sold the right to tax Texas highway drivers to Spanish billionaires, let a British firm write a law authorizing the sale of virtually all Texas state property to foreign corporations, and tried to literally sell the lives of retired Texas schoolteachers to a Swiss bank. Yet he's somehow built a reputation in the national media as a fist-shaking America-first nativist, with a Tea Partier's passion for small government. How Perry has managed to sell this fictional version of himself is a testament to the extraordinary power of marketing over reality in our modern political system."
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
"According to Texans for Public Justice, Perry appointed 921 of his donors and their spouses to government posts over the past decade. All told, those appointees gave a staggering $17 million to his campaigns – 21 percent of the entire amount he raised during that time. To give an indication of just how completely for-sale public appointments became during his administration, Perry collected $6.1 million from the 155 people he appointed to be regents of state universities in Texas.

You can get a fairly decent summary of Perry's track record as governor just by going down the list of political favors that were granted to the 204 "Central Committee" members who collectively contributed half of his campaign money. Start at the top: Perry's biggest single donor, the homebuilder Bob Perry, was rewarded with his very own regulatory agency."

haha I'm reading Taibbi vomit hate at Perry but this is very instructive about conservatism's latest habits

/ e

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rick-perry-the-best-little-whore-in-texas-20111026

[ September 06, 2014, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
That's pretty awful, also probably common amongst governors.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
It all seem so out in the open in Texas. I found a lot of that rather shocking.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
it's such a great time to be someone who gets massive schadenfreude over conservatives

ie me
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Yesterday, Politico published a leaked report commissioned by two Republican lobbying groups on how the party can better attract female voters. The report, based on a recent poll of 800 female registered voters as well as a series of focus groups, is titled “Republicans and Women Voters: Huge Challenges, Real Opportunities.” The central challenge facing the Republican party is that women—particularly single women and women who have graduated from college—are “barely receptive” to its policies, and are likely to consider the party “intolerant,” “lacking in compassion,” and “stuck in the past.”

Here’s where the “real opportunity” comes in: If only the Republicans could explain to these women that they are wrong, their votes would come flooding in. The report says that it is a “lack of understanding” between women and Republicans that “closes many minds to Republican policy solutions.” Republicans can attract the female vote by attacking the Democratic claim that GOP policies do not promote “fairness” for women and dealing “honestly with any disagreement on abortion” before moving on to “other issues.”

Today, R.R. Reno, editor of First Things (a journal that promotes “economic freedom” and a “morally serious culture”), published a very helpful essay illustrating how this fresh new strategy might work in practice. Reno begins his piece with a richly-drawn portrait of a hypothetical female Democratic voter: She is a “single, 35-year-old McKinsey consultant living in suburban Chicago who thinks of herself as vulnerable and votes for enhanced social programs designed to protect against the dangers and uncertainties of life.” (Reno does not specify the number of cats she owns, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume the answer is "several.") Reno speculates that this woman (whom he has invented and preprogrammed with opinions) feels “judged” by a Republican platform that opposes gay marriage, because “she intuitively senses that being pro-traditional marriage involves asserting male-female marriage as the norm—and therefore that her life isn’t on the right path.” So she votes for the Democrat, who does not appear to be “intolerant” of her lifestyle.

Here comes the part of the exercise where Reno carefully instructs this fantasy lady liberal that she has chosen poorly, and that the Republican party is the logical choice for a woman in her circumstance. This woman is suffering from "various kinds of personal unhappiness related to the lack of clear norms for how to live," Reno writes. She secretly “wants to get married and feels vulnerable because she isn’t and vulnerable because she’s not confident she can." And so, actually, she should support the party that wants to force people into traditional marriages, thus improving her chances of getting married herself. (Perhaps she can marry a gay man?) If only our hypothetical cat lady could get on board, she would get a husband, the Republicans would get another married woman to add to their key demographic, and gay people would get totally screwed. (Yay?)

In short, Republicans understand women plenty—it's women who don't understand themselves. Sounds like a promising strategy that will work with many, many sad single ladies that Republicans have invented in their brains. Next step: Finally granting imaginary women the right to vote.


 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
HEY GUYS CHECK THIS OUT
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
oh, ok. it worked a bit too well.

Open up this thread in two tabs. Make a post in one tab. Refresh both tabs to the thread to display the new post. Edit and delete the post in one tab. Go to the tab where it is still displayed. Edit your own now deleted post.
 
Posted by deerpark27 (Member # 2787) on :
 
Samperoonie, it's just you and me!
How are we going to get outta here?

The doctor's gone, his soiled gloves limp on the linoleum. Merde alors! Alors quoi?

I will explain everything.
Encore.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
You silly hacker, you.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
You silly hacker, you.

"No, Dogbreath, YOU are the hackers."

And then Dogbreath was root
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I AM PLEASED ENOUGH TO BE GETTING BETTER ENOUGH THAT I CAN BE BORED BECAUSE I AM NOT ALL TEH WAY WELL AGAIN

IT IS A VERY MOMENTOUS CHANGE FROM BEING TOO SICK TO BE BORED BECAUSE YOU ARE WORRIED INSTEAD
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
[Frown]

Are you definitely allergic to gluten?
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
[Frown]

Are you definitely allergic to gluten?

Perhaps you understand Samplish better than me, but shouldn't that be a happy face as it seems like he said he's getting better?
 
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I'm pleased he's not on the verge of death, but ultimately I will be happy when he's well again.

I can see how my initial response seems pessimistic.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
the gluten tests keep producing invariably muddled results. it is suggested by the tests but the evidence threshold for, like, quantified certified status is not quite present. I continue to be on a doctor ordered exclusion diet while my <insert string of expletives> residual symptoms ease off and my <insert longer string of expletives> rheumatoid factor or gout markers or whatever are also checked
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Gluten free is for amateurs. I'm on that FODMAP status
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
i will not be a happy camper if my exclusion diet gets expanded temporarily to fodmap. that said, i have a couple of people i know who can live normally despite their previously crippling ibs because of fodmap
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Their problem is that they don't belong to a party that tells them eating gluten is good for America, and if they don't like it they should get out and go to France and eat surrender cheese.

Also, conception is an act of love, and it's "just two competing theories," and the problem is that both sides are just as bad, and you don't mess with a marine, because San Francisco liberals aren't the *real* America, guns don't kill people, they just help kill people faster and make you feel manly, and a marine will do most of it for you, and anyway everyone knows that a higher minimum wage causes inflation cause it's *obvious*, and the guy working at Starbucks is making Barack HUSSEIN Obama (what, I'm just stating his *full* name), a latte so he can disrespect the troops, no warriors, before there's boobs on the ground.

Did you notice that the wall-street protesters were *clutching* iPhones? Not just holding them. Clutching them. Because children and feeble women clutch things, like handbags, and rattles.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/06/public-affairs-marine-capitalized/

quote:
...“But rules are rules. I mean, who is this guy to just come along, write out Marine in lowercase and spit on the American flag?”
(I've yet to talk to a Marine who gives two shits about the "latte salute" or whatever)
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Nor I. And I have a few close friends in the marines, including a colonel.
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Nor I. And I have a few close friends in the marines, including a colonel.
 
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the gluten tests keep producing invariably muddled results. it is suggested by the tests but the evidence threshold for, like, quantified certified status is not quite present. I continue to be on a doctor ordered exclusion diet while my <insert string of expletives> residual symptoms ease off and my <insert longer string of expletives> rheumatoid factor or gout markers or whatever are also checked

I've gone semi gluten free, and though I do not have Celiac's, I can say that cutting the gluten out has helped me lose 25 pounds in two weeks, and I already feel like I have more energy.

My biggest worry was bread, as I love it. The only good gluten free bread I have been able to find is made by Udi's. They have it at Winco. (I think you are in California Samprimary, aren't you?)

Hope you are ok and that it isn't anything too serious.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I'm curious. Are you subbing in gf baked goods, or are you more or less on the Atkins diet?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
nearly all of the gluten free foods I rely on (including udis and rudi's bread) are actually worse for you nutritionally speaking if the goal is to lose weight. gluten free as a weight loss strategy? i have no idea how that would work

glutino bread is also good. it shares the same principle weaknesses of all gf bread (teensy baby loaves + easy early spoilage) but it's basically just, y'know, bread
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
sent from my clutched iphone
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Is literally anyone else here following Australian politics? Abbot is what you would get if you took gwb, stripped out his earnest idealistic charm, and replaced it with a kind of suffocatingly sociopathic dunderheadedness.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I want to learn about the current political situation along with the history of Iranian politics. I've read the basics from Wikipedia, but I'm looking for something with a little better journalism. Anyone have recommendations?
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
I am friends with Iranian who loves to complain about politics, so I learn about them whether I want or not.

She likes BBC Farsi (which is obviously out of the question unless you really like Google Translate mush), so regular BBC?
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
nearly all of the gluten free foods I rely on (including udis and rudi's bread) are actually worse for you nutritionally speaking if the goal is to lose weight. gluten free as a weight loss strategy? i have no idea how that would work

Easy. You eat less calories overall because it costs too much to buy.
 
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Is literally anyone else here following Australian politics? Abbot is what you would get if you took gwb, stripped out his earnest idealistic charm, and replaced it with a kind of suffocatingly sociopathic dunderheadedness.

No, but I know of Tony Abbot's evil.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Do you even crossfit bro?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I'm cringing. I'm cringing my way through that entire video. I hurt. That entire video is supremely painful for me to watch. That's horrifying. That's viscerally horrifying. I'm practically shrieking.

A freaking plus
 
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
 
Ndamukong Suh: discuss
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Suh just knows how fun it is to literally walk over other players like a monumental jerk
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
successful appeal so he gets to come back and play

we should totally give him the benefit of the doubt because he is totally not the kind of guy who would intentionally step on a playe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WZki4UB8jw

oh
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I was *sure* that it wouldn't be a discussion of whether it was intentional or not, the discussion would be whether it should be a fine or suspension. He clearly lifted up his right leg while his left leg was on Rodgers, placing all of his weight on Rodgers' ankle. An unintentional step would obviously be immediately pulling your leg off, not adding weight to it.

I hate being wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOQWpR3u2A

Also, that isn't just some internet troll's opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pereira
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
It honestly does look like it *could* be an accident, but a) he's a professional who knows where the quarterback is behind him, and b) he is a hothead who has kicked people in the past. So yeah.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
No it doesn't. The first step might have been an accident. Then he knew where Rodgers is and stepped on him a second time. And lifted up his other leg so all of his weight was on him. And then walked away without apologizing or even reacting in a way that acknowledges he just put his 300 lbs on some guys ankle.There is no chance that is accidental.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
antiflouridation conspiracy is the best
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
The only anti-fluoridation person I know is also anti-vax and tried very earnestly to convince me 9/11 was a conspiracy.

What are the odds?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
He also "has his suspicions" about the moon landings.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Suh should have been fired the first time he did this.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
What's up with the thread title? "It's actually about ethics in hatrack posting"
 
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
 
It's funny if you remember gamergate, especially when combined with your female attire thread, kind of brilliant.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Must have missed gamergate... [Dont Know]
 
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
I wish I had. I have a friend who was crazy obsessed with it. As opposed to the noncrazy kind of obsessed
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Must have missed gamergate... [Dont Know]

We discussed it at some length in this thread. I posted an article that summarizes the issues and controversies at hand. It works as a pretty effective introduction to it.

edit: fixed the link.

[ March 08, 2015, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: Dogbreath ]
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I just did a YouTube search on Anita Sarkeesian. Pretty much every video title that comes up is firmly anti-Anita. I briefly watched a couple. It's ugly.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Thanks for the links
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
The only anti-fluoridation person I know is also anti-vax and tried very earnestly to convince me 9/11 was a conspiracy.

What are the odds?

As long as they don't bomb the Soviets in order to preserve their essence. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
I just don't understand the movement really, how entitled do you have to be to think wanting gamer culture and the games industry to be more inclusive is at all unironically a bad thing.
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Back before I met my wife I had had an idea...Virtual Porn Director...a video game that lets one control the set, wardrobe, positioning, the script, etc...with the sole purpose of separating porn from video games. I mean can't I just shot aliens without an ET tittie bar that when my character sits down it zooms in on the scantily clad dancer Mass Effect 1 & 2 (and presumably 3)? Get your porn out of my games!
 
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
 
How would the existence of your game keep the content you're uncomfortable with from being included in other games?
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Make it superfluous?
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I see the flaw in my plan...it was ALWAYS superfluous
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Back before I met my wife I had had an idea...Virtual Porn Director...a video game that lets one control the set, wardrobe, positioning, the script, etc...with the sole purpose of separating porn from video games. I mean can't I just shot aliens without an ET tittie bar that when my character sits down it zooms in on the scantily clad dancer Mass Effect 1 & 2 (and presumably 3)? Get your porn out of my games!

These kinds of games exist already, MMD is frequently used for this purpose. Not counting the plethora of Visual Novel porn games and 3D porn games and so on.

It goes like this, despite the internet existing, people still seem to like having sexual fan service in their games; so even having MORE games dedicated to just sex isn't going to satisfy that desire.

Especially when the streams cross and people I dunno, want gasp, their porn to actually have an engaging story and plot to go with it too!
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Getting a girlfriend sounds like more fun.
 
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
 
You know people in relationships still watch porn right?
 
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
You don't say. [Wink]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
pool cleaner pizza delivery co., ma'am. you ordered the hawaiian with the sink faucet fix?

*tips construction worker helmet*
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
RENEGADE INTERRUPT
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
title presented without comment
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
For real? That's awesome.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Link?
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Link.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
(it's the first result)
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
For a 3 year old article.

Takes some of the sizzle out of it.
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
"I think we've all been there, jobless with nothing but a bucket of hotdogs, a block of processed cheese, a van, an American flag, and a goddamn dream.

Or at least that was my initial impression. Since the campaign started, the guy has actually built his kitchen (look at the updates!), done some hotdog catering, set up his entire supply chain, and he appears to have his budget planned very well, albeit with the help of "How to Start a Hotdog Cart" eBooks. He's got a dream, man, and none of us and not even the devil himself is going to be able to stop him. Unlike a lot of crappy Kickstarters, I believe this is going to happen with or without our funding. This guy is Forrest Gump and his shrimping boat/hotdog stand might as well be built right next to the Field of Dreams. I don't mean to imply that he's an idiot, but that I admire his blind confidence and hotdog faith.

I come from Hipsterville where we only eat hotdogs ironically, as a joke, so that other people can look at us and say "Haha. That's hilarious. Let me take an Instagram of that. Imagine if you ate hotdogs and actually liked them." So this campaign touches me in ways both mystical and nostalgic. It makes me yearn for the days when I could eat bad food unironically and wear plaid because it's warm and because lumberjacks are cool, not because I'm trying to convey some dumb hidden message. Every time you eat a hotdog, you get to become a kid again for two minutes.

The hotdogs are hilarious, but I genuinely hate it when people get flak for "trying too hard." We badly need more people who try too hard. It's the most foolish insult to say, "I dislike you because I dislike effort." We are a generation of people who were told their entire lives by nurturing, caring, hippie parents they we are all geniuses. Every boy a wonderboy. Every child above average. But rare is a parent who doesn't care about test scores and IQs, but instead praises their kid only for trying and failing. Effort, man. Effort. That matters so much more than innate intelligence, than knowledge, than wit. You should try to do new things even when (hell, especially when) you think you will fail. This man is trying hard, with all his might, for an aspiration that isn't even lofty. It's humble man wanting for a reachable goal involving the most meager of foods in the tiniest of towns in the poorest of states.

Yeah, I'll be damned if I'm going to dislike a guy for trying too hard. It's apparent that he has turned to crowdfunding only because he has already put every spare dollar he owns into this business. I might not believe in the superior deliciousness of Doobie's hotdogs, but I want to believe in them. And I would eat one.

Another thing is that this appears to be a very small town where the median household income is 20 grand and the most prominent restaurant is a Subway. A hotdog stand, of all things, could affect real change there. It's a good story: The unfeeling internet hordes pulling together to fund a rural hotdog stand in Reform, Alabama. That is something I want to be part of. "Doobie's Dog House" is a name worthy of headlines. I want confused journalists to try to figure out what the **** happened, why it happened, and how they can possibly convey the idea of crowdfunding to their readers. It'll be like when CNN tries to explain memes. At the very least, this has the potential to make an entire town wonder about Something Awful. Someday, I would like to drive to Doobie's Dog House, eat a hotdog, and think of goons.

To finally answer your question about our motivations, it's definitely the third option. We are good and bad meats processed together and extruded as 6 foot tall tubes, both cynical and kind, complicated and salty. Goons are actual hotdogs. I pledged $25 for both entertainment and charity. If this works and there's a hungry Alabama goon who wants my hotdogs, they can have them. Just please take pictures so it's like a child sponsorship charity, only for meat tubes instead of impoverished children. If the Kickstarter fails, then I will have paid nothing and told a guy that I admire his efforts and his gumption."


goons power doobie's dog house (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/657642328/doobies-dog-house) to fruition

So, I contributed to this campaign and have been following Doobie on Facebook ever since. Doobie's Dog House opened last week, and has had an incredible amount of support from the local community. They had to close early on Saturday because they literally ran out of food to sell people. You can visit the Facebook Page to see some pictures of the place.

Incidentally, he's been more or less constantly harassed for half a year by people from the SA forums. Posting fake (bad) reviews of his establishment, posting racist and hateful messages on his page, and otherwise telling him he's a loser/failure/no good redneck, and disparaging him and his family. I honestly have no idea why they chose him to pick on, but I think it's despicable.

I still follow this occasionally. A year later, and Doobie's is doing very well and just hired their first employee.

Guy is also still getting harassed a lot. Fake reviews, racist comments, insults. Luckily it hasn't kept him from succeeding.

I still don't understand the ongoing hatred for this guy.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Goons are more supporters of doobue than detractors
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
I'm sure. But a search of SA and Doobie's Dog House results in lots of entitled, enraged posts about how he "scammed" SA, or what a redneck loser he is, or how betrayed they feel by him because he chose not to make his place of business (and sole source of income) "the home of the Frog Dog" after being harassed by said people. What I don't get is how you can seriously call someone who built a successful restaurant (and is now a job creator) on $14,000 in 7 months time a failure or a scam artist. I seriously doubt any of them could successfully launch a restaurant with that much money in that time frame.

Nor do I see any posts saying "hey, you know the guy did everything he set out to do, and in a pretty reasonable timeframe, right?" Just scorn. And for what, exactly? Why keep harassing the dude and trying to ruin his business? It’s not like a Kick Starter is an investment or the guy owes you anything, though if you want to drive all the way out to Reform, Alabama I’m sure he’d give you whatever crappy reward you selected. (2 free chili cheese dogs and a coke!)

(For what it's worth, I've got nothing against SA in general, and I'm sure is populated with wonderful people. I just think the... passive aggressive? relationship the forum seems to have with Doobie is sort of insane.)

[ March 29, 2015, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: Dogbreath ]
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
(Star Citizen, OTOH, is now at $75 million and 3 years in...)
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
many goons are more than just sort of insane. goondom can be outright insane. often times you will see goondom really getting on its own case about its own 'ironic' humor turning into profound obsessional targeting, especially in the coming of gbs 2.0 which turned general into a hive of pretty constant transphobia and other things.

per the doobie thing, i believe doobie is now one of the subject that is hellthreaded. as in: there is ONE thread where it is the only place you are allowed to discuss bullshit related to that subject.

or post chain goatse whatever

i find this an appropriate solution
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Really were we not talking about goons
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Addendum to thread title
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
it is true too this is an actual conversation i had sparked by that one of the most profoundly versatile and well spoken and valuable members of the community was basically named something like "fartpump barfington" for years
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
This is why it's probably not a good idea to hang on to usernames you thought were funny and/or clever as an 11 year old.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
you act as if fartpump barfington will ever not be funny
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
That Fartpump MacBarfington, thank you very much.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
no, you're thinking of that show fartpump mcgillicutties: friendship is magic
 
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
we're adults
 
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Speak for yourself. I'm 11 years old and what is this?
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-1/
 
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
 
I did a presentation in graduate school about crypto-currencies and how they are a super duper awful idea.

Turns out I was right so far.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I think of it actually as a super great idea in the same way that refining coca into cocaine is a super great idea, in the sense of being pharmacologically amazing and creating something with obvious applications.

It's just a matter of practical people wanting to stay as far away from those applications as possible.
 
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
quote:
He ordered a total of six separate hits—two individually, and then a group of four more on another occasion. Three of that final group of four were only added to the contract because they were supposed roommates of the actual targeted individual, and it would be 'safer to prevent possible witnesses'. The first two hits and the main target of the group of four were all supposedly blackmailing Ulbricht for money with the threat of informing to government officials.
It was disclosed later that the last five hits, all of which were negotiated with who Ulbricht believed were the Hell's Angels, never occurred*, and were part of a scam pulled on Ulbricht. He paid roughly $650k in bitcoins for the hits, according to email transcripts. None of the targets were real individuals, and in the transcript Ulbricht even comments on how he can't find any web evidence of the existence of one, but agrees to paying for the assassination anyway.
Not much more than that has been disclosed, but the assumption is that the blackmailers he was paying to have assassinated were also the ones posing as the Hell's Angels who he was hiring for the assassinations. It's unclear whether this group were actual criminal scammers or if it was the FBI executing a sting themselves.
*The Washington Post also says that the first never occurred either, but since there is a pending Maryland trial on the matter, more details than that have yet to be released.

my word
 
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
 
Soldier Disappointed to Learn Jade Helm is not a Coup

quote:
UNDISCLOSED LOCATION, Texas- A soldier participating in Jade Helm is disappointed to learn the military is not actually imposing martial law and taking over Texas, sources confirmed.

Sergeant 1st Class James Peterson, an elite special operator taking part in one of the largest SOCOM training exercises on US soil, expressed his disappointment that Jade Helm is an actual training exercise. “I was super stoked when we got off the bird in Lubbock. I’ve been listening to Alex Jones for weeks, and it finally felt like it was really going to happen this time,” said Peterson.

Friends close to Peterson stated that he’s “always been ready to help install Obama as the first Fuehrer of America,” friend Abby Sawyer said. “He really bought into the Fox News rhetoric calling the President a Nazi. I don’t think he understands that Fox News is kind of like Nickelodeon for right-wing adults. It keeps them entertained but doesn’t really offer anything of substance.”

And, *NOT SATIRE THIS TIME*:
quote:
According to a poll released by Public Policy Polling (PPP) late on Wednesday, 60 percent of likely voters in the Republican primaries believe that Operation Jade Helm 15 is an attempt by the federal government to invade and take over Texas
This is going to be a fun election season.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Also not satire: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/world/americas/ex-fifa-official-jack-warner-cites-onion-article-in-defense.html
 


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