Hatrack River Forum: Orson Scott Card To Retire From Writing

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Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :

April Fools!

[Evil]

Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :

My hate shall be a fire that shall burn your entire world until its surface is nothing but glass.

[to clarify, I would be extremely upset if we were to never get that final book to link the Ender Saga and the Shadow Saga]

Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :

I heard he had finished all his "Great American Novels" and now wants a life of leisure in a 6 x 6 cubicle where from 9 to 5, he will be pushing paperwork to nowhere.

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

It's my impression that you can't retire from writing. Writing is the Hotel California.

Posted by Tittles (Member # 12939) on :

Good joke, you had me excited for a second.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

Tittles: You would be happier if you didn't do that.

Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :

Totally fell for that, evil, so evil

Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :

Cute joke!

Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :

You got the hopes of a whole bunch of activists up, only to dash them. Great job!

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Yozhik:
You got the hopes of a whole bunch of activists up, only to dash them. Great job!

We don't want him to retire. We want him to retire from being annoying and embarrassing. His novels are NOT the place to expand on the ideas he presents in his "World Watch" columns. IMHO, anyway. I prefer to buy a novel when I buy his work, not a collection of World Watch essays, mmkay?

Posted by Thesifer (Member # 12890) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Yozhik:
You got the hopes of a whole bunch of activists up, only to dash them. Great job!
We don't want him to retire. We want him to retire from being annoying and embarrassing. His novels are NOT the place to expand on the ideas he presents in his "World Watch" columns. IMHO, anyway. I prefer to buy a novel when I buy his work, not a collection of World Watch essays, mmkay?

Actually, his novels are the place for him to write whatever he wants. But that also means he takes the chance of losing readers. But it's definitely the place for his ideas, regardless of how abhorrent they may be.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thesifer:

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Yozhik:
You got the hopes of a whole bunch of activists up, only to dash them. Great job!
We don't want him to retire. We want him to retire from being annoying and embarrassing. His novels are NOT the place to expand on the ideas he presents in his "World Watch" columns. IMHO, anyway. I prefer to buy a novel when I buy his work, not a collection of World Watch essays, mmkay?
Actually, his novels are the place for him to write whatever he wants. But that also means he takes the chance of losing readers. But it's definitely the place for his ideas, regardless of how abhorrent they may be.

Question my taste if you want, but...I'm not fond of the flavor of political screed in the novels I read.

Posted by Thesifer (Member # 12890) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Thesifer:

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Yozhik:
You got the hopes of a whole bunch of activists up, only to dash them. Great job!
We don't want him to retire. We want him to retire from being annoying and embarrassing. His novels are NOT the place to expand on the ideas he presents in his "World Watch" columns. IMHO, anyway. I prefer to buy a novel when I buy his work, not a collection of World Watch essays, mmkay?
Actually, his novels are the place for him to write whatever he wants. But that also means he takes the chance of losing readers. But it's definitely the place for his ideas, regardless of how abhorrent they may be.
Question my taste if you want, but...I'm not fond of the flavor of political screed in the novels I read.

I'm by no means endorsing WHAT he writes, I'm just saying, as they are HIS novels, he can write whatever he wants. It then becomes your choice to read them or not.

Personally, I read most of it as complete fantasy, so if he has any agenda to push, it gets ignored by me anyways.

Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :

Mmm. I just burned my tongue.

Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :

omg you got me and I hate you!

Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :

I find his Enderverse to be pretty much a non political spin zone, I haven't noticed anything like that there.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
I find his Enderverse to be pretty much a non political spin zone, I haven't noticed anything like that there.

There's a good bit of pro-baby, pro-family, etc. stuff in the Bean books, from what I recall. Petra goes from being a military commander to wanting to be a mommy. It's kind of silly, frankly.

Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
I find his Enderverse to be pretty much a non political spin zone, I haven't noticed anything like that there.
There's a good bit of pro-baby, pro-family, etc. stuff in the Bean books, from what I recall. Petra goes from being a military commander to wanting to be a mommy. It's kind of silly, frankly.

"you're my giant."

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

You'll have to remind me what's wrong with a military commander wanting to be a mommy.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
You'll have to remind me what's wrong with a military commander wanting to be a mommy.

Explain to me how it's remotely believable. Petra is a badass, raised to be a warrior. None of her training, schooling, experiences, day-to-day life, or behavior up to the point of the events of that book would suggest any inclination toward motherhood, domesticity, or worshipful/adoring love of a male peer.

The fact that the average high school girl (or college-aged girl, etc.) in the US is interested in boyfriends, marriage, and/or motherhood has very little to do with a character like Petra, with her background and personality, being focused on those things.

It's out of place. You can deny if you want. I will quietly laugh, and ignore you, though. Use some caps at me, though, if it will make you happy.

Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :

I'm with Steven. I couldn't help but be suspicious when you take a rabid hyper competitive tomboy and turn her into a pixie, at the age of sixteen, whose life mission is to risk her life for the sake of having Bean's children. Bean narrates that her character in Battle School was "just an act." She's never even the same character after she breaks in the battleroom and "disapoints Ender", and her guilt trip bugged the shit out of me.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

There is a lot of overlap between learning to lead people, and raising good children.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
There is a lot of overlap between learning to lead people, and raising good children.

There's also a lot of overlap between caring for children and caring for bedridden hospice patients. That's got nothing to do with anything, bro.

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

Nonsense. It just adds another facet to an already complex and thoroughly fictional character. Which of those kids could even remember anything approaching a normal life? I see it as Petra wanting to do something different than what she had been compelled to do since she was 6. Define her own life, as it were.

At any rate, it wasn’t clear that you were talking about Petra specifically. I thought you meant military commanders in general.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Nonsense. It just adds another facet to an already complex and thoroughly fictional character. Which of those kids could even remember anything approaching a normal life? I see it as Petra wanting to do something different than what she had been compelled to do since she was 6. Define her own life, as it were.

mmkay. ROFL

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

Thought you were going to laugh quietly.

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :

The relentlessly, aggressively pro-procreation stance of the later Shadow books felt so out of place to me that I regarded them as political, particularly given how neatly they tied in to other themes of Cards along the lines of 'a heterosexual married procreating couple is the only real, authentic unit of coupled humans'.

But more than any of that what bothered me was the way Petra's entire life became oriented around Bean's, with incredible speed. That would've been a bit grating even if it *hadn't* taken the path of extreme domesticity.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Thought you were going to laugh quietly.

I'm TRYING

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Thought you were going to laugh quietly.

I was gonna make that joke, but it's no surprise someone else noted the unlikelihood.

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :

Have you read either of the two, new series? If not, I recommend that anyone who feels OSC should return to his old style should check out the Lost Gate series, and to a lesser extent, the Pathfinder series.

Hobbes [Smile]

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Thought you were going to laugh quietly.
I'm TRYING

OMG IS ALL I AM TO YOU COMIC RELIEF AFTER ALL WE'VE BEEN THROUGH

I honestly have no opinion either way about Petra. It's been years since I've touched an Ender's Shadow book. But you just wanted me to argue with you so much! How could I disappoint you?

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

What bothered me was the LECTURING. Why does every character have to be possessed by Card to lecture and nag the reader about getting married heterosexually and having babies?
It's deeply irritating and not just because Petra went from badass tomboy to omg I just want BABIES BABIES BABIES even though they have a rare genetic disorder. And wasn't it possible that their other kids were carriers for that too even though they were born "normal"? And why would you go to someone you can't trust just to have babies when it's not a totally good ideal?

GAH! I hate lecturing in stories. Even if it's something I agree with. It's not unbelievable that a tomboy would be like, now I want babies. But the way it was done in this story and the nagging made me snarl.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
Thought you were going to laugh quietly.
I was gonna make that joke, but it's no surprise someone else noted the unlikelihood.

I was promising to be quiet in response to something like "but EVERYBODY wants to have kids". I apologize. I was not prepared for the joke.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
Have you read either of the two, new series? If not, I recommend that anyone who feels OSC should return to his old style should check out the Lost Gate series, and to a lesser extent, the Pathfinder series.

Hobbes

Have read both books in both series. The Lost Gate series (a.k.a. the Mithermage series) is a bit derivative of "Jumpers" and "American Gods", but I'm not even sure that OSC even read either one of those books, so it may just be a case of convergent evolution, so to speak. The Lost Gate books are pretty good, I'd say in the top third of all his novels. I just finished the second one yesterday.

The Pathfinder books are a semi-rehash of ideas from the Worthing Saga and the Homecoming series (smallish group of humans stranded on a new planet, without knowledge or technology, and how hijinks ensue), but they're definitely better than Homecoming.

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".

See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.

OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.
OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.

Guess why I put the series down years ago.

I happen to put great value in raising a family, but I'm not going to say what anyone else should do in that regard. Neither am I going to criticize anyone else's choice to have or not have kids.

Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :

quote:
That would've been a bit grating even if it *hadn't* taken the path of extreme domesticity. [/QB]

Agreed.

Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.
OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.
Guess why I put the series down years ago.

I happen to put great value in raising a family, but I'm not going to say what anyone else should do in that regard. Neither am I going to criticize anyone else's choice to have or not have kids.

I'm not criticizing Petra. Not formally anyway. I think she's lame, but for selfish reasons. I'm making a conjecture about the person who wrote Petra, along with all the peripheral elements to it, and why he wrote her that way.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.
OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.

Which is ironic because in that universe folks with your opinion have put the boot to those wanting many children.

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

Pathfinder frustrated me.

The worse advice in the world is the concept that EVERYONE should have children. No, some people should NOT have children. They do not want children. It's OK not to want children. I respect people who admit that. I can't really decide. Children make loud noises that hurt my ears. They demand a lot of care and some people just do not want to give kids the care they need. Worse reason to have kids is because society says to do it. No. Don't listen to it if you don't want kids! How people raise kids has an effect on society. *soap box*

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Pathfinder frustrated me.

I personally am not a fan of the lying robots. Also, time travel paradoxes get a little unwieldy. However, at least there's no preaching, that I remember...and it's a better working of that idea from Homecoming.

Granted, "it's better than Homecoming" isn't exactly ringing praise.

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

He still had once instance of preaching. I swear nagging and lecturing about marriage and babies is to OSC the way sex is to LKH. You just want to sit both of them down and go, OSC, no LECTURING about marriage and babies or heterosexual monogamy. Stop it. And LKH you can go 10 pages without a long drawn out sex scene when folks were in the middle of actually doing something besides having sex!

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
He still had once instance of preaching. I swear nagging and lecturing about marriage and babies is to OSC the way sex is to LKH. You just want to sit both of them down and go, OSC, no LECTURING about marriage and babies or heterosexual monogamy. Stop it. And LKH you can go 10 pages without a long drawn out sex scene when folks were in the middle of actually doing something besides having sex!

Wait. LKH isn't just porn for girls who like fantasy? [Confused]

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

Yes, but sometimes you need a bit of story with your cheap porn. Some kind of plot otherwise it's just smutty. But, really, girl needs to go easy on the cayenne pepper. It's gets silly when they are like, someone just got killed, we need to investigate, but first, we need to go off to some magical world and have SEX. YAY! SEX for like 20 pages and using the world spill incorrectly.

Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :

world spill?

Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :

I could believe her with Bean, but having another zillion more with Peter? That was weird. Also, Peter's still a sociopath, so marrying your protagonist to him is all sorts of delusional. And cruel. And makes Petra seem Really Really Stupid. And out of left field.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Yes, but sometimes you need a bit of story with your cheap porn. Some kind of plot otherwise it's just smutty.

All righty then. To each his/her own. ROFL

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
I could believe her with Bean, but having another zillion more with Peter? That was weird. Also, Peter's still a sociopath, so marrying your protagonist to him is all sorts of delusional. And cruel. And makes Petra seem Really Really Stupid. And out of left field.

Yeah, I'd be real careful about making sure there wasn't a sociopathy gene(s) before I'd have kids with one.

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

The word spill that is.

I would not want to marry a sociopath. They would stress me out. OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin. Their relationship was kind of cool.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin. Their relationship was kind of cool.

Really? Whole chapters of those books are ruined for me by her pointless controlling henpecking. She deeply, deeply sucks at being simultaneously tremendously more far-seeing than other people, while still interacting with them in a normal way. If I were married to someone who acted like that, I'd be entirely miserable.

Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :

My OTP is Issi/Hush. FTR.

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin. Their relationship was kind of cool.
Really? Whole chapters of those books are ruined for me by her pointless controlling henpecking. She deeply, deeply sucks at being simultaneously tremendously more far-seeing than other people, while still interacting with them in a normal way. If I were married to someone who acted like that, I'd be entirely miserable.

Yeah, she does do that, but only because she can see the future, so she's almost always right. Still, I'd rather marry her than Novinhua who was not nice at all. [Wall Bash]

But Peggy and Alvin are believable to me unlike Ender and Novinhua. Except their angst. It's no one else's fault but the person who shoots someone, dang it.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Yeah, she does do that, but only because she can see the future, so she's almost always right. Still, I'd rather marry her than Novinhua who was not nice at all. But Peggy and Alvin are believable to me unlike Ender and Novinhua. Except their angst. It's no one else's fault but the person who shoots someone, dang it.

I agree, Peggy has more excuse to be difficult. Novinha is like bottled misery-for-others, and for no discernible reason. Who would want to marry that?

And yes, I agree that Novinha's supposed reasons for her ridiculous behavior are less believable.

Personally, if I were a friend/brother to someone like Peggy, I'd advise her to just not get married at all. She has too much trouble with the balance between her gift and relationships.

Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.
OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.
Which is ironic because in that universe folks with your opinion have put the boot to those wanting many children.

This hasn't happened; maybe to Card he truly felt a dystopia is a world where there's minor amounts of gun control, liberals winning elections, and sanctions placed on nations who don't enforce a 2-Child policy and Ender's Game might have hinted at something gruesome but its clear from the Shadow books that the world of the Triumvirate during the Formic Wars is hardly a dystopia by any significant reasonable stretch of the definition.

Maybe if Card was more explicit and drew a more clear comparison to Gaza for Poland it might be more believable but it just isn't based on the later writings.

Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :

quote:
Have read both books in both series. The Lost Gate series (a.k.a. the Mithermage series) is a bit derivative of "Jumpers" and "American Gods", but I'm not even sure that OSC even read either one of those books, so it may just be a case of convergent evolution, so to speak. The Lost Gate books are pretty good, I'd say in the top third of all his novels. I just finished the second one yesterday.

OSC has reviewed both Jumper (http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/f&sf/93-summer.html) and American Gods (http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2002-05-27.shtml). I actually think Enchantment did the "Gods are real and derive power from belief" thing before Gaiman (but after Pratchett, though I have no clue if he ever got around to reading Pratchett). I do think the Mithermages is an attempt to play with the same concept (and not quite as successfully as Enchantment), but I think Card is definitely doing his own thing there, not just rehashing.

quote:
OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin. Their relationship was kind of cool.

Er...I really like Katerina/Ivan in Enchantment. One of my favorite romances. Even if we'll never get Carey Mulligan playing Katerina (sadly), I still want it to be a movie really badly.

I also adore Jane/Miro and Wang Mu/Peter in Children of the Mind (which is actually a huge reason Children of the Mind is my favorite of the Speaker books. And am aware that almost no one is with me on that one. But it's just so darn fuzzy and warm when SPOILER

REALLY SPOILER
Jane loses her temper for the first time in her human body, and Miro helps her understand what's happening.)
END SPOILER

I also thought romance was reasonably well done in the Women of Genesis novels.

I do agree that Ender/Novinha was really painful - but I don't know if I ever thought OSC intended us to find it romantic. Ender does, but he's deeply screwed up. [Smile]

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:

quote:
"but EVERYBODY wants to have kids".
See, I wouldn't have said that. That's simply not true.
OK, let me restate. Something more like "everybody SHOULD want to have kids and raise a family, it's like the best".

You don't believe that? Certainly OSC does. He's made that plain, first in his essays, then later in multiple books.

It's jarring to someone like me, who thinks that overpopulation is one of the worst problems facing the world today, especially India/China. Especially India.
Which is ironic because in that universe folks with your opinion have put the boot to those wanting many children.
This hasn't happened; maybe to Card he truly felt a dystopia is a world where there's minor amounts of gun control, liberals winning elections, and sanctions placed on nations who don't enforce a 2-Child policy and Ender's Game might have hinted at something gruesome but its clear from the Shadow books that the world of the Triumvirate during the Formic Wars is hardly a dystopia by any significant reasonable stretch of the definition.

Maybe if Card was more explicit and drew a more clear comparison to Gaza for Poland it might be more believable but it just isn't based on the later writings.

Nope. Ender's Father and Mother have to sign away their son's life to the military just to have him. His grandfather fought against laws prohibiting more than two children and disgraced his daughter by association.

People who refuse to obey have sanctions placed on them and penalties.

Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin.

Have you read Enchantment?

Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :

Amen, C3PO, amen. Love that book so much.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

True story. I'd love to see the play or movie of Enchantment. Purely for Ivan and Katarina. Maybe also Baba Yaga.

Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :

Forgot to mention I quite like "Teacher's Pest" for the snippet of romance there. [Smile]

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

quote:
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
OSC doesn't do romance well except for Peggy and Alvin.
Have you read Enchantment?

I did, but it frustrated me. Every romance ever also has to start with the man and woman fighting with each other all the time. The woman in that book was so difficult too. He was like, put some clothes on, please and she was all skitchy about it going, but it's a MAN'S shirt.

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :

*shrug* It seems you missed the lengthy cultural explanations contained in the story for why that request *wasn't* as simple as 'put some clothes on'. One of the key points of the story was that, hey, two people from radically different cultures separated by, what was it, a millenia?, have a long bridge to build to connect.

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

I understood that. But she still annoyed me.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
I understood that. But she still annoyed me.

She should, she's not from your time period.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
a millenia?

A millennium. Several millennia.

Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :

Aw, I loved Katerina. I thought OSC did a great job of capturing the cultural, religious, and personal differences that made their interactions so tense and awkward, while still showing the growth there towards their eventual love. Plus, it showed the good and bad of both cultures, instead of trying to have one "win" over the other.

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
I understood that. But she still annoyed me.

Most romances involve two people who have some obstacles to overcome to get together. If they don't get together it's not a romance, if they don't have obstacles it's not a story ("Hey, wanna get married?" "Sure!" "The End"). A lot of writers (TV/Movies) are either too dumb to think of real, meaningful obstacles or think the audience is too dumb to understand them. This results in movies like Love Happens, which is a sad, sad thing. It makes it easy to miss when a good writer has real obstacles resulting from legitimate human characters rather than just another crow-bar-ed in problem that no two rational people would ever let keep them from romance.

[ETA: Basically, when enough cheap tricks have been played on you, a good one can feel phony.]

Hobbes [Smile]

[ May 07, 2013, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :

Well put! I still think that Enchantment is a very good one.